2026-11-04 - Transportation Commission Special Meeting

between two the two options for this level the um speed humps versus the um radar feedback. What is the the rationale for choosing one over the other?

>> We felt that um the radar feedback signs would be able to be implemented a lot quicker and than uh speed humps. Um also with speed humps um it's you know it takes a lot more involved with

construction and it gets to be put on the project schedule and everything um where the radar feedback signs can provide more of an immediate benefit. Um another thing with speed humps is sometimes

what we've seen with those is that and people really try to avoid them and they'll re-route onto this other surrounding streets um which are not necessarily as designed for as much traffic um so

that's something else we've taken into consideration.

>> Did you find there was a were they speeding coming off a lot faster than as they approach Mars Hill?

>> Uh we we measured in one spot which is sort of in the middle of that corridor. Um I'll show you. Yeah. So we don't have one for for both sides. We Yeah, we do have the data. Yeah, we we do have we

still have the data. We can look at what direction they are traveling to and see there.

>> Look at the data and see what they're doing both ways and if if it's going it would be going west instead of okay. I don't know. Cuz I've been doing this for a while and sometimes it makes a

difference and a couple of those different University Avenue was one.

>> Okay. Yeah, we didn't look at which side is necessarily the problem and our solution is putting ones on both sides but um we can look into that for you.

>> Any other commissioner questions? All right, with that we'll move to public comment. Um so if you'd like to make a public comment, please come up to the microphone and state your name and address

and then you have about 3 minutes um to speak.

>> My question is have any of you ever come out there and watched the traffic on Santa Fe and Marsh Hill? Cuz I invite you to do that. Come out any Friday, Saturday, or Sunday afternoon around 5:00,

sit in Thorpe Park and see what we're dealing with. Okay, because we got people coming down Marsh Hill at 60 mph and we have it even at 3:00 in the morning. And you know, I really got to tell you a

three-way stop at Thorpe and Santa Fe would make a huge difference. And [name] up there, okay, who's online, her friend backed out of her driveway and got a and got his car totaled because of speeding

on Santa Fe. And you really got to look you really need to come look with your eyes you know, and get more data. And you really should have done the hoses across Marsh Hill and checked the speed. It's

20 mph up there and the overview is closed at 10:00, but there's no enforcement. We talked to the police, we've done coffee with the cop, all my neighbors sit behind me and they go we don't have the

manpower. Police chief can you just say we don't have the manpower. So we need other devices to control the speeding. And it's it's bad and my neighbors can tell you too. That's why they're here.

Thank you.

>> So we're at Santa Fe right before where you're proposing the um speed limit kind of

>> Fe and Walnut Street.

>> Yeah. And so they put one preliminary up and it was going up, not down. Just before we got here, there was two cars speeding and they find it they soup up their cars and that that's the raceway.

And you've got children at the park at Thorpe Park, people walking dogs. My dog was killed in front of my house on Santa Fe on a clear day because someone was speeding, never stopped ever. He didn't

even slow down. So, this is safety at issue.

>> And sorry to add to that. Um yeah, he didn't stop but um a fabulous neighbor saw it and did stop and described to us he was coming eastbound [snorts and clears throat] and our dog had gotten out of

our yard. So, that was our bad obviously. But uh he made a comment as she was lying there dying that the guy must have been going over 50 mph. So, we had a little skin in this game for sure. And if

you did want if the council did want to see it themselves can't see the map from here but where we're at on Santa Fe um so we're kind of equidistant between Milton and the park. [snorts] We have um

150 ft on Santa Fe proper. Okay? We've got two large patios that face north. So, we spend a lot of time out there. There's a lot of frontages that are probably as big on Santa Fe but they don't the

viewpoints that we do. And we're part-timers. We spend as much time in the summer as we can, which is typically two to three months. So as far as having observations, we're your guys. All right? And

you know, I'm I'm not sure if it's it's probably worse in my observation going toward Thorpe versus coming down, but there's a high likelihood that both directions are as bad.

>> Yeah, when you had the the speed capturing device that you had out, we actually saw it worse. People were actually waiting to see who was faster, who could beat that can't register sign. That's no

joke to put something in as a temporary

>> It was like a challenge.

>> Yeah, it it made it worse. 6:30 at 6:30 this morning cars racing again down. Okay. But as far as yeah, something as simple as speed humps. And I know they said, oh, well, snow plows can't go over.

No, that's not true. They can. They work in a lot of cities. We're not the only one. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Can you state your names, please?

>> Yes, [name].

>> [name].

>> Thank you.

>> [address] Wall.

>> My name's [name]. I live on the corner of Summit and Sycamore, which is the south point of the triangle. And I have a direct view to West Santa Fe. Um I've lived at that location for 47 years. I've

watched the traffic increase. I've watched the traffic get faster, louder, and uh it's generally obnoxious. It goes I've been I've been to um at least three of these meetings on this topic. And I have

seen no satisfaction from you folks. And I mean the royal you, not not you guys. But uh I would like for you to sit on my porch some Sunday morning, Saturday evening, Monday morning, and the rest of

the week. Spend an hour or two. You might see something. You might hear something. You might not. I guarantee you will. Speed limit, I don't know. Noise, loud and getting louder. It's annoying. And

you folks wouldn't tolerate it in your front yard, I would imagine. So I have a suggestion for you. At least put uh pedestrian crosswalks on West Santa Fe that by law people have to stop when I'm in

that crosswalk. Please do that. Also, speed bumps is a great idea. Um if they have nails in them, that might be a good idea too. Um but uh I wouldn't suggest that really cuz I use that road regularly.

Um really West Santa Fe needs to be regulated. I don't know what your speed trap signs, how effective they are. They're pretty pretty useless in my opinion. I see them uh Fox Glen. Do they work? What

do you do to enforce them? Nothing. So, um I'm with [name] and my neighbors here. I've been talking to [name] about this for years. This is the third, I'll repeat, the third meeting of this nature on

this topic get something done to uh control the traffic there. I don't care if they're buses. I don't care if they're vans. I do care if they're souped up Subarus and uh pickup trucks that need new

mufflers. You guys need to check it out and seriously check it out. And uh if you want a chair, my porch is a great place to sit, have a cup of tea, try to read a book. I guarantee you won't be able

to. Uh thank you for your time.

>> Thank you, [name].

>> I'm [name] and this is my husband [name] and we've been at [address] West Santa Fe for over 20 years. And I will echo what our neighbors have said. The traffic has gotten worse both in terms of

speed, in terms of amount, and in terms of the noise level that we have to experience. It's difficult to make the decision to open the windows in the spring and summer when it gets hot because we know

we won't be able to sleep because of the noise of the traffic going through. But I think the bigger danger is the people that are crossing from Thorpe um over to the sidewalk at Santa Fe. People come

around because there is no stop sign and a speed bump and a traffic um regulating um monitor are not going to stop this. The people coming up Santa Fe take that turn onto Thorpe really really hard.

It's a blind turn. Our driveway is backing out there. Constantly people are coming around and over 30 miles an hour just around that corner um breaking hard to hit us. Also people come down when the

weather is either um icy or snowy. They lose traction and they've hit our house, our landscaping, the telephone pole, the electrical pole in front of our house there. So while I don't mind the idea of

incremental change, I think the problem is that it's going to have to be either three-way stops or possibly an actual roundabout there, something that will really slow people down, not something

that's optional, not something that can be gamed on TikTok, not something that's going to cause people to change their behavior like temporarily, but something that will actually cause them to stop.

Do you have anything you want to add, [name]?

>> Uh the only thing I'd add is that there are several problems. One is the people making the turn and heading towards Coconino Estates. They're just using it as a shortcut to get to a bypass the busy

city traffic, but then there are the joy riders that are going up and down uh the the to the overlook at the top of uh the Lowell Hill. And those guys are a real menace because they are um speeding at

at very high rates of speed and you know I don't think uh courtesy sign that says hey you're going too fast is going to do anything to affect them. It might affect the people who are just trying to

commute um to other neighborhoods, but the joy riders are a real problem. Um the police have been out multiple times and they basically say they don't have the staffing for enforcement as others have

said. Um we've asked for a stop sign at that corner for years. Um we've asked for them to uh enforce the traffic laws and you know as [name] also said the noise is really a problem too because of uh

vehicles that are that are rigged to make an make an excess noise. Anyway, we're at our three minutes.

>> time, but I would maybe ask if at some point somebody could address at what level we would go from bumps to a stop sign or to a roundabout.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, [name].

>> Good afternoon, commission members and council member Spence. I'm [name]. I live on West Aspen Avenue since 1988. I am among the many people, long-term residents of that area who know this is a

huge problem. I'm sorry I'm late, but I'm really busy on my way to yet something else right now. This is a huge problem and it's it's Santa Fe, it's Mars Hill, it's through Thorpe Park. That no child

has been killed at that park is mind-blowing. You need to do something and I heard the word incremental. We've waited long enough. This has been going on for so long. Bonito's a problem, Aspen Birch,

Cherry, they're all race tracks. It's really a problem and the city's tactic of delay is going to end up in a death, just like with Southside and flooding two deaths last weekend. There's going to be

serious problems and delay is not the answer and I ask that you push the city to do something because this neighborhood has paid taxes since taxes were first collected in this community. We have

families that go back 100 years and it would be really nice to show respect for these historic neighborhoods and the people who live in them because incrementally what's happening is it's getting

worse and so if you try to address it incrementally it's not going to fix it. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Doctor.

>> Good afternoon. Thanks for listening to this. Uh one of the things that I always wondered about the the issue about noise, the faster cars go, the more noise they generate. Um the quality of life

is affected by noise. That's been shown many many times and it's constant. And when you're you're using when you're facing that noise trying to read your book on your backyard, that's a a real um

incredibly it it impinges upon your ability to do something that feels safe and at home. Um I I don't know why Flag doesn't have um tests for noise when you go or even having your cars checked out. Um

every other city I've been in um checks that when you go to get your registration or license or whatever, one of those official times. If you just put made that a four way stop, that would slow

everybody down. Uh go around, slow it down and and so does um and and they're safer. They're safer. They're used all over in other parts of Arizona but certainly the world. And um and I my my kitchen

window looks right out across um to the intersection. And when I first moved into that place, I couldn't believe the number of trips that would go through that intersection. So I did a random study

being sort of a psychologist. Uh and and what I did is I took uh every hour of the day and um put it in an envelope, wrote it down and and I every day I'd randomly pick one of those and I would get up

at 3:00 in the morning and and count the number of trips through there. It was extraordinary. It was in the thousands in the daytime. And there is really quiet at night. So so there a lot of those

trips that go through there have been doing that for a long time. But when people began to cut through from the other parts of the city, um they um it increased. They obviously did. And my friends and

I have been talking about what to do about this for a long time. When I uh you talk about the safety, actually you've only seen uh one accident, but it was a car to car and it was somebody backing out

onto Santa Fe from their driveway. But the the issue about um the the noise again is that in the summertime my bedroom window faces there. I can't you know I can't have it open cuz it's just so noisy.

So you know seem like the when I watch people how they walk across that intersection, um the they almost never walk across from um the west side at the at the junction to the that um pathway. They'll

cut diagonally across or they cut straight across and there's no there's no um markings on the road for that at all. And and that happens constantly. And and even you know the I see bikers and

skateboarders come down that place too. And um there's no no there's nothing to say to them, you need to stop cuz there may be somebody cutting diagonally across from entrance to park in order to get

to the bicycle lane or get to the pathway. But it happens all the time. I see more people doing that than actually following the lines that are marked. So I'd say one thing to do is come out and watch

where people actually go and then put the marks there. Cuz that's what's happening with all those, you know, little kids and all of the dogs and the walking. So I I really appreciate you you listening

to this, and I if I understand correctly that the the testing will um once you put up what you decide to do will um then be tested for a certain length of time. But the other thing with the police

enforcement, I invariably see that they park in a place that that is ineffective for for for looking at what they're doing. So they'll park between Spring Street and the curve, but as soon as somebody

comes around that curve and sees the police, by the time they've gotten to the police car, they will have slowed down, and even if he has the radar gun, almost never is facing back up that way. So

I've never seen anything where the police have parked there and watched for periods of time that seemed in the least very effective without actually doing what he did finally do, which is put the the

the speed catchers, uh you know, the whatever that's called, um so that you could tell actually what the speed is. And I appreciate the the fact that it seems more open here now to actually taking

some concrete steps to do this. But um my neighbor's mother-in-law and I used to have this conversation, and she once proposed that slow the people going down I mean going up Mars Hill where they love

to go because it makes the cars really loud, you know. And and and she said, why don't we just go up there and we'll we'll lie down in the road, and if they run over us, they guarantee they're going

to do something real to make this happen. But it was part of the frustration of being right there and having your home invaded by noise and the safety of yourself and your kids um um just ignored by

the fact that these cars go as fast as they feel like doing. So anyway, thank you for listening to all that.

>> Thank you, sir. What's your name? I was asking for your name.

>> Oh, I sometimes remember that myself. My name is [name]. You can call me [name]. Everybody else calls me [name].

>> Thank you.

>> I am [name]. I live over on Aspen Street, one block over, but I hear the cars all day long. Um it seems to me this calming light might be more of an attraction for these racers that want to go up

and down there to see how fast they're actually going. Um my thought is usually a hump or a sign that says bump seems to get more uh response than something like that. It's almost kind of a uh right

of passage in high school going up that road when you got to go up Mars Hill. It's let's just see how fast we can go cuz I hear it every day. These kids just