2026-10-21 - Public Works Committee

00:01Good morning. I'd like to call this meeting to order. I am Alderman Chairwoman Miele A. Cox.

00:08I am joined to my right by Alderman Lamont Westmoreland, Vice Chair.

00:14And to his right, we are joined by Alderman Robert Bauman.

00:18To my left, we are joined with my staff assistant, Kermit Roman.

00:22To her left, we are joined by Alderman Alex Brower.

00:26To his left, we are joined by Alderman Larisa Taylor.

00:30Item number one, file number 260837, appointment of Aaron Moriak to the Public Transportation Utilities and Waterways Review Board by the Common Council President.

00:43Hello.

00:43Good morning.

00:45Good morning.

00:47Well, thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

00:50I'm truly grateful for this opportunity to serve on the board to continue my advocacy for public transit in Milwaukee.

00:58As a few of you probably know, I've been a public advocate for many years now, showing up to as many public meetings for the numerous projects we have been doing recently,

01:08as well as keeping up to date on the status of the various grants that we have been pursuing.

01:13I also sent a lot of e-mails asking questions and just doing whatever I can to make sure that we can make public transit and safer streets and things like that better for the people of Milwaukee going forward.

01:27So I'm very excited to take that public advocacy to the next step as part of this board.

01:33And I hope that my participation as a recent member elect in a recent board meeting a few weeks ago demonstrated the kinds of questions and insights that are expected from members of this board.

01:45And I hope to continue that contribution into the future.

01:48Thank you.

01:49Thank you. Any questions from committee?

01:52All right.

01:53I'm Alderman Bauman. We'll move confirmation. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none, so order item number two, file number two, six zero eight six four.

02:01Congratulations.

02:02A resolution determining it necessary to make various accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city engineering costs estimated to be five hundred thirty thousand dollars for a total estimated cost of these projects being two million two hundred eighty five thousand dollars.

02:23Good morning. Holly Ruttenbeck with DPW.

02:25This is setting up engineering for future accessible paving projects.

02:31Are there any questions from committee?

02:33Hearing none, Alderman Bauman will move adoption.

02:38No objection, so order.

02:40Thank you.

02:40Item number three, file number two, six zero eight six five.

02:44Resolution determining it necessary to make various non accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city engineering costs estimated to be three hundred eighty

02:56thousand for a total estimated cost of these projects being one million three hundred and fifteen thousand dollars.

03:02Good morning. This is for setting up engineering on future non-accessible DPW projects.

03:12Are there any questions from committee?

03:16Hearing none, so order.

03:18Or hearing, hearing none, Alderman Bauman will move adoption.

03:23Hearing no objection, so order.

03:25Item number four, file number two, six zero eight six six. Resolution improving construction of non-accessible public improvements at various locations and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city construction costs estimated to be five hundred and twenty thousand dollars for a total estimated cost of these projects being three million dollars.

03:46And there is a proposed substitute.

03:49Order woman Taylor would move that we have the substitute in front of us hearing no objection, so order.

03:57Can you tell us the difference with the substitute?

03:59Yes, it was setting up funding for the ADA ramps related to the area wide sidewalk program, which is on a future item on this cycle as well.

04:10Any questions from committee?

04:12Hearing none, Alderman Bauman would move adoption.

04:16Hearing no objection, so order. Item number five, file number two, six zero eight six seven, substitute resolution authorizing area wide and scatter site sidewalk replacement at various areas and appropriating funds for these purposes with the city construction costs estimated to be one million six hundred seventy thousand dollars for a total estimated cost of these projects being one million six hundred eighty five thousand dollars.

04:41Good morning. This is for setting up both accessible and non-accessible funding for the area wide sidewalk repair program and also these scattered sites sidewalk replacement program.

04:52Any questions from committee?

04:53Madam Chair, what's the wait list at right now?

04:58The wait list is currently between five and six years.

05:01We have about twelve hundred properties on the list right now.

05:05We're able to replace about forty thousand square feet of sidewalk each year through contract.

05:12But this year we recently had approved for the in-house street maintenance crews to replace sidewalks so that we can try to reduce that wait list.

05:26What crews?

05:27The street maintenance crews.

05:28There's one street maintenance crews that has now been allocated to sidewalk replacement.

05:35What's that in-house?

05:36Oh, so with that with that slowdown, what they typically do that at wait times?

05:46So what we're trying to do is to next year have a contractor and then also have one designated street maintenance crew so that essentially we have two separate ways in which we are trying to reduce that wait list on the scattered sites program.

06:01So what do we anticipate that four to five years being reduced to with the contractor?

06:07This is the first time that we've actually had a designated crew working on this. And so we will need to see how it works out. They just actually started this program about two weeks ago.

06:18Got it. Thank you.

06:19The feasibility study that we had done about the the single the scatter site piece said that with the internal crew being stood up, that the expectation is within so many years.

06:39It was so much between three to five years that there would be we will be more on time. There wouldn't be the backlog that it will take some years. But the backlog would be eliminated or minimized over the next several years with the internal crew.

06:55That's what the feasibility study show historically has that wait list.

07:00How is it grown?

07:01Has it maintained at that four to five years or has it doubled, for example, in the last 10 years?

07:09It's been pretty consistently around five years for a while now. Previously, it was maybe two to three years, but it's been consistently five years for quite some time.

07:22And there was before your time here on the West morning. There was at least one year that I recall where they did it and nobody even responded.

07:30So we didn't have anybody doing it, which I think added to the backlog as well.

07:36OK, all right. Any other questions from committee?

07:43I don't know what's more than what move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion?

07:50And so order item number six on number two six zero eight six eight six eight resolution providing for continuance of deferred payment of assessments for worthy indigent resident property owners and appropriating funds for this purpose with the 2026 city cost to meet.

08:11Five hundred and twenty seven dollars and eighty three percent with a 10 year total of deferred properties being seven thousand four hundred eighty dollars and forty cent.

08:21Good morning. This is our deferred assessments program.

08:25So for property owners that meet the criteria of the deferred assessments program, when they receive a special assessments bill, they would have the option of being able to apply for this program.

08:36We currently have five applicants that are continuing on this program.

08:41Any questions on committee? Hearing none. Harder woman Taylor would move adoption.

08:49Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none.

08:52So order item number seven file number two six zero eight five one resolution directing the commission or public works to execute a document titled second revision state municipal agreement for a state led highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the programming design.

09:13Real estate acquisition and construction of West Appleton Avenue from West Burlice Street to S.T.H. one eighty one and to set up additional funds for design engineering at an estimated total cost one hundred and fifty thousand dollars with an estimated city share.

09:29Thirty seven thousand five hundred dollars and a grand tour share of one hundred twelve thousand five hundred dollars.

09:36Good morning. David Tapia, major projects manager. So this revised SMA is just going to set up more design money as we move from the scoping segment that the D.O.T. handles into starting preliminary design.

09:53Any questions from committee? Hearing none.

09:58Harder woman Brower would move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none. So order item number eight file number two six zero eight five six resolution directing a commission or public works to execute a document titled state municipal financial agreement for a state led highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the programming design and construction of South 27th Street.

10:26S.T.H. two four one from Howard Avenue to the U.P.R.R. and to set up funds for design engineering at an estimated total cost of two hundred thousand dollars at an estimated city share of fifty thousand dollars and a grand tour share of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

10:45This sets up the money to start the scoping process with the Department of Transportation for this project.

10:54Any questions from committee? Hearing none.

11:00Audubon bombing would move adoption hearing no objections.

11:07So order item number nine file two six zero eight five seven resolution directing a commission of public works to execute a document title first revision state municipal agreement for a state led highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the programming design real estate acquisition and construction of West Appleton

11:28Avenue S.T.H. one seven five from West Lisbon Avenue to West Burlard Street and to set up additional funds for design engineering at an estimated total cost of six hundred and fifty thousand dollars with an estimated city share of one hundred and sixty two thousand five hundred dollars in a grand tour share of four hundred and eighty seven thousand five hundred dollars and to set up funds for real estate acquisition and an estimated total cost of five hundred and five thousand dollars with an estimated city share of zero dollars in a grand tour of four hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in a grand tour of four hundred and eighty seven thousand five hundred dollars in a grand tour share of four hundred and eighty seven thousand five hundred dollars into set up funds for real estate acquisition and an estimated total cost of five hundred and five thousand dollars with an estimated city share of zero dollars.

11:57And a grand tour share of five hundred and five thousand dollars.

12:01This is to now similar to the first one we're moving from the scoping process phase into preliminary design.

12:10Any questions from committee hearing on Audubon Westmoreland would move adoption hearing objection so ordered item number 10 file number two six zero eight five eight resolution directing the commissioner of public works to execute a document title state municipal financial agreement for a statelet highway project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation for the programming design real estate acquisition and construction

12:53of West Capital Drive STH 190 from North 35th Street to Milwaukee River and to set up funds for design engineering at an estimated total cost of two million five hundred and seventy thousand dollars with an estimated city share of six hundred and forty two thousand five hundred dollars in a grand tour share of one million nine hundred and twenty seven thousand five hundred dollars and to set up funds for real estate acquisition and an estimated cost of one hundred and ten thousand dollars with an estimated city share

13:22of zero dollars in a grand tour share of one hundred and ten thousand dollars this sets up the funds to begin scoping with the Department of Transportation any questions from committee hearing on Audubon Brower remove adoption.

13:49Are there any objections to that motion hearing so order item 11 I just did to item number 11 file number two six zero seven three four a substitute resolution a substitute ordinance relating to fines for the theft or destruction of copper cables and wires.

14:25We're going to take just a brief a brief like five minute break before we take this up be right back I don't remember 11 to six zero seven three four substitute ordinance relating to fines for the theft and destruction of copper cables and wires this item is sponsored by

15:45autumn and Stanford and I think we talked about it but I would love to be added as a co-sponsor. I would appreciate it especially with the next two items I think we all have the same concept and have the same idea on holding people accountable but also saying what we can do as a city as far as the best of our ability to make sure it stops and then people know what's happening in the community.

16:06So go ahead. Yeah OK. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you for your patience. I am here. It's good to see you all this morning. This relates to the best that's happening in the community.

16:19We are facing a lot of streetlights out. We are facing individuals have discovered a whole new crime category for our city and that is removing circuitry and selling it for some money.

16:33And I understand that the value is not worth what's not worth it at all. But what we're what they're gaining in what they make on the circuitry we're losing two three four hundred percent.

16:45So in speaking to the commissioner they're making 100 at most hundred hundred twenty dollars at most. But it's called it has cost the city over six hundred thousand dollars thus far.

16:58So I'm happy to partner with all of me cause all the other council member who wants to take take a response take responsibility as leaders in the city in determining what's the causes and stopping it.

17:14And then the people that continue to do it hold them accountable to the hilt.

17:21I don't want to thank you. Hey. Absolutely. I was going to say what do you guess I'm about to say. So we could go over the numbers the numbers were derived from LRB and our excellent research and comparison to what's reasonable and what will get the attention.

17:47So I loved I would love to hear from the commissioner his thoughts and how this can be implemented.

17:56Good morning chairwoman committee members Joe Kroschke commissioner public works here.

18:00I think this is fantastic. Obviously we've had many conversations in this committee.

18:04We had some during budget. I've had one in ones with a lot of elected officials especially the ones hardest hit during this.

18:11And so those numbers have increased since the last time we're near eight hundred thousand dollars in cable theft.

18:16That's just the actual value of the cable not our labor costs from our folks that have to replace it.

18:21I'll give you some numbers. We had 75 incidents in August. We had 49 in September and we had 22 in October.

18:27So they're going in the right direction and some of the positives going why we're going in the right direction.

18:32There's been a lot of coordination with MPD. There has been some effort of some of these folks.

18:38And so we're in the process. I won't go into case details because obviously these folks are still going through that process.

18:43But we have arrested numerous folks over the past month and I would give a lot of praise because that partnership that still doesn't mean it's not happening.

18:51So I think we've apprehended. That doesn't mean if they're going to be off and out of whatever consequences that are have occurred to them after this they could happen again.

19:01So I will give some positive there. But I do think there has to be stricter penalties related to street life because it doesn't.

19:07There's a monetary value here but it's also the quality of life for the residents of Milwaukee.

19:11I think that's the biggest thing we're talking about here. So the department is in favor of increasing any fines related to damage to public infrastructure.

19:21Any questions from committee manager.

19:26So this is a partnership with the police. I'm assuming they're doing the rest. Correct.

19:30So is it based on video camera. You've seen them in action or the police just straight catching them red handed.

19:36It's multiple. So we've had citizens that have been calling in. We've had our folks who actually do the work that are notifying the police department and they're actually apprehending them.

19:43And on their own. So all three phases are coming into one. So it's you know I will just tell the public and I think we mentioned this at last public works.

19:51If you see someone tampering or around street lighting that you see cables coming out notify the police where we would notify watching now it's been like a two stage process.

20:00You'll have someone come in or a group of people come in. They will clip cables in one day and then the next day they'll pull them out.

20:06So it's almost a two step process. That's what we noticed recently. So if you see something just let them know. It'll help us all out of basically reducing theft one last thing that's interesting.

20:16Commissioner I apologize the discussion has already happened. But would you call it like an organized operation.

20:23I got to find out more details in that. We knew there's a group of folks that had done all the majority of theft but I don't have all the details yet until we kind of flush this out.

20:32Do we know where the manager. Do we know where they're selling this material. That is an investigation right now because that's the question I asked last week.

20:39So some of this is most recent. And so as I get data I can share that. But that's part of this evaluation investigation we believe it's one buyer or they go to multiple outlets.

20:50Yeah. Do not have the answer to that. We're hoping maybe it's just one or if it's going across state lines. That's what I would like to know if it's going to one. How much quantity are we talking about truck loads pickup truck loads.

21:03Hundreds of thousands of feet of cable. Really. Yeah. So think of cable. I mean that's eight hundred thousand dollars worth of cable that we have lost. So this comes in miles worth of cable. So I mean it's not all in one batch.

21:14So as they're going through a particular night that's still a significant amount. So they're going in multiple manhole or junction boxes cutting them and then pulling them through the conduit.

21:23There's multiple ways but that is the one way. So we will have handhold that exists basically access for our folks to maintain street lighting cable. They will smash or access those.

21:31We've done some things to try to deter that. But then yes they will cut live cable which is extremely dangerous and then yank it through out of the ground. Exactly correct.

21:40So does that infer some knowledge in every half of our cables. The systems are installed and built. Yes and no. I mean you're with live cable. You would have to have some knowledge not to electrocute yourself.

21:51I mean how electrical systems are put in from street lighting is not like uncommon by any means. You could probably Google it.

21:57Things we're talking in the background. I think part of the next file that goes through is strategic ways we can deter that or and that's why it's certain things that we'll put in a report going forward.

22:06We don't want to disclose publicly but have conversations behind this would sound time consuming to pull the feet of copper wire through a conduit out of junction box.

22:16I mean a group is just standing there that they were yellow vest to look like workers at the I've heard sometimes sometimes yes.

22:23So which obviously will throw the public off because hey here's a yellow vest.

22:26But really I would say if you see folks especially this happens at nighttime a lot of our street lighting folks do not work at night just in the danger of working with electricity during the night hours.

22:36So if the public does see someone in a yellow vest at night especially with street lighting please call because that's a big indicator that theft is probably occurring.

22:45I'm sure I remember. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. So this is this is great. I am. Thanks for letting me sign on to this.

22:55Thanks for using this legislation. I really appreciate it. So this creates a new category of potential basically a citation that we can issue.

23:06And so this would be and just so I am clear on this this is in conjunction because our ordinances don't have implications for criminal stuff in that state statutes that's like chapter 900 of the state statutes right.

23:18So we so this is basically a citation or a civil violation that we could that would be in coordination with any criminal prosecution against these individuals is that is that correct.

23:32Yes we have LRB representative here. He helped me significantly and put developing this ordinance. Would you mind explaining.

23:43Yes. That's the answer. You're taking the mic off please. Next tricky legislative reference bureau. Thank you. Thank you.

23:50Yes Alderman Brower this would be a civil citation as an alternative to a criminal misdemeanor.

23:58Are we intending or maybe this hasn't been explored as that's fine. But like are we going to do both. I mean are they going to get both a criminal.

24:05Let me just walk through a couple scenarios here. So are they going to get both a criminal refer the DA and now we have a criminal charge against the individual.

24:13And then we are also simultaneously going to issue a citation because I guess an advantage of having this I would imagine would be there's a higher bar for conviction in a criminal court.

24:23It's you have to convince the entire jury if they take it to trial. And then with this with a civil matter census citation what we're dealing with unless I'm incorrect is just a preponderance of the evidence as a standard to adjudicate.

24:38So if a criminal case falls apart because the DA flubs something or whatever like or MPD has flubbed something and that's not unheard of in this city. You know they've they've flubbed something the criminal case falls apart. We could potentially still win against these individuals with this rather hefty civil penalty against that individual that would have a lower bar of standard to pass in a court for us to be able to actually win in municipal court and potentially circuit court if they appeal.

25:06This is that is that is that part of the thinking here with the caveat that I am not an attorney and can't a pine as to legal or criminal procedure. Yes I believe that that is one of the the arguments in favor of a citation option.

25:21OK. All right. Cool. No that makes sense to me. And thank you so much. Right now I remember last time we talked about as I talked about people dying.

25:34So I did look it up and there have been people that are dying doing this one instance where it was like 1030 in the morning and they they found somebody's body and he still had the tool in his hand after he was electrocuted to death.

25:50So yeah people are dying in relation to what I know publicly you don't want to touch on it which is fine but as far as the deterrence deterrence is go like what's the timeline of doing this to make this more difficult for thieves.

26:09Yeah so some of the areas that we know were hot spots we've tried to address some of the things we've done in the past recently is we're trying to move in some circuits which is not easy move from copper to aluminum which is less valuable.

26:21We've put basically almost more security type devices or plates on our handholds or access points which is deterred some things but not everything because they're figuring out new ways to basically dig down or access.

26:35So we have other methodologies you want to do that that are in action right now we can discuss those off I just don't want to give away our trade secrets but we have been constantly trying to and when I say timeline like is it like OK by next fall we should be 50 percent safer.

26:51You know what I mean. Yeah it's it's tough so some of the even the security stuff we've put on some of these handholds I mean these individuals have figured out how to get specialty tools related to it so they're knowledgeable.

27:00So we're constantly pivoting to make sure what's the best answer. So we're going to constantly move this and we've actually had conversations across the country.

27:09This is not only happening in Milwaukee. I mean we've had been fortunate that has not hit here earlier. This is all over the nation.

27:15It's been happening in Minneapolis. It's been happening in Los Angeles Las Vegas et cetera.

27:20So we've touched base with peers on what the best practices they've been doing because they've been doing longer.

27:24So there are some ideas that work here. There's other ones that don't based on the way our systems built.

27:29So we're never going to stop at 100 percent. But we're going to try to do everything we can to basically deter. Thank you.

27:34Excellent. Thank you. Any other questions from committee. All right. Thank you.

27:40I'm in Stanford for your leadership on this course. I think it's one of many pieces to try to address the issue and I'm glad you're moving it forward.

27:55Order woman Taylor would move passage. Are there any objections to that motion? Hearing none. So order. Thank you.

28:05Next up is item 12. File number two six zero eight one seven substitute resolution relating to the prevention of electrical wire theft.

28:15This is sponsored by myself and other women pride members probably remember all the women pray and I have been dealing with large outages in major neighborhoods in our district.

28:31And it was probably about a year ago that we began to work with DPW to figure out why and in many of the cases it was due to the copper thefts.

28:42So when we became aware of them and just trying to figure out ways and it continues to persist and be a problem.

28:49And I believe our districts are some of the hardest hit with the copper that's so in thinking of as many ways as possible to attack the issue.

28:59We came up with this resolution which speaks to how we can prevent it.

29:09But for the for the department is you want to know I think we're we are in partnership here.

29:17Like you've said all the women we want to be a partner here and figure out ways that we can basically just stop theft and have no problems putting together a strategy.

29:26And we already have some of the things we've talked about is the way we're hardening hot corridors or our circuits have been hit in a regular basis.

29:33Obviously looking at more like I think older Obama had mentioned is where is the cable going maybe hardening and restricting more strict rules on who is the resale area.

29:43Once we finally determine what that is and also you know obviously the partnership we've had with MPD and even expand that further just on every heading folks that are doing this.

29:51So I think there's multiple ways we can continue to expand on this and create a strategic plan moving forward.

29:59Also this for the viewing public this this piece of legislation directs the Department of Public Works to work with MPD and any other departments and or organizations or individuals.

30:13I've had licensed electric master electricians in my district who've witnessed the thefts who've called and given all kind of suggestions for what they think from their expertise of what could be done for prevention just kind of like our hands on deck.

30:30Let's look at all the solutions that we could possibly do and come back with.

30:34And I know in the meantime you all are trying a whole bunch of stuff anyway but to have a very concerted effort on you know best practices across the country as well as what are some unique things we can do here to help stop the copper theft.

30:49And most importantly bring the lights back on in these neighborhoods that have been so impacted by the lights being out.

30:58So that's just what this piece of legislation does.

31:06And I also I'll be honest part of the reason I brought it forward is residents have been really good about if they see it taking pictures video all kind of stuff and sending it to us and also sharing it with MPD residents kind of feeling if I'm honest as I go to town.

31:25I mean it is as we just sat through a budget hearing at Mitchell Library this weekend. This was one of the things that our neighbors brought forward but feeling like not enough was being done or paid attention to by us as well as MPD to address it.

31:44So this is a file in which the expectation would be some working together and some reporting back publicly about what those measures are that are being taken or whatever just to reaffirm to the public that yes we really are working together and trying to find solutions.

32:00That was the intent behind this piece of legislation.

32:05Any questions from committee.

32:08Madam chair. Yes I'd like to be added as a co-sponsor. Can I do it from here. I got a way to. All right. Awesome. So I understand I read that all the 6th district and the first of the hardest hit but it's the 15th right after that.

32:27I mean almost every district has had some sort of theft. The ones that all the women Cox is talking about there is a circuit that has just been one circuit that was targeted probably more than any others.

32:38But the theft does occur in the 15th. So it's not just there but it just seems like they've targeted a particular circuit. It's happening everywhere.

32:45And I feel like that is I'm targeted as well. Targeted. Yeah. So I don't think it's a race to see who gets more stuff in each one. It's just happening.

32:53Yeah. This is everybody assistant because this is a phenomenon where we don't have no lights right. It's ridiculous. So these people got to be held accountable because this frustrating drama down my neighborhood and there's no lights and then when I call it's been 6 7 8 days where the people have to deal with that waking up and is black.

33:17That's messed up man. And they're doing it to the city. That's really messed up. So please add me to the co-sponsorship of all both of these. Please.

33:26All right. For sure. Yeah, me as well. Me too.

33:31I don't buy you with it too. Yep. Can't please affect the health of many his sponsors.

33:37All right. Other other men bombing would move adoption. Are there any objections to that motion?

33:44Hearing none. So order item number 13 file number 2 6 0 8 1 9 substitute resolution directing the Department of Public Works to establish a reward program for individuals who provide information relating to the theft of electrical wires.

33:59And this is possible by myself and all the women practice kind of taking a page from what we do for dumping and some other stuff while they're not a lot of reports that we end up having a payout.

34:14I think in incentive program to encourage residents who see something to say something is is just another important piece to try to get more people actively engaged in reporting the information of the best that they witness.

34:33And that's what the intention behind this. This was I'm sure I'm a sample based on this conversation earlier.

34:44I received a lot of suggestions as well from electricians but also in the plumbing problem that we may not the plumbing tire problem that we have.

34:52Do you have you got your own professional electricians? I know.

34:58But would you accept in part of this people providing their own suggestions on what prevention or what's happening so we can get more thoughts on this this this concern?

35:11Absolutely. I mean if any if obviously folks that are subject matter experts in here and have ideas we are more than willing to take those suggestions.

35:19Excellent. So because you and I did open to the public type of pathway for them to call and report and provide information we can use that same model and just make it towards the Department of Public Works.

35:34So this number or this method you can submit suggestions for how to prevent this electrical issue.

35:43We could even have a public meeting.

35:45Yeah. With the department.

35:47Showing showing how to if you got some ideas those electricians got some ideas.

35:54But also prevention. Somebody died. I mean you risking your life for a hundred dollars.

36:00Sad but true.

36:01No.

36:02I remember. Thank you. Yeah. No this is this really good. And we're on a 13 which is the reward program.

36:10So I just want to make sure that we're clear that Alderman that you're are you said you're not suggesting that we would do a reward program for just the suggestions.

36:17Right. You're saying. No no no. I just want to make sure that we because you know we want ideas we're going to pay for every idea that we don't pay it off a suggestion.

36:24I don't understand that. Thank you so much for the dumping. Yeah we got dumping for information that leads to OK.

36:31Thank you for the clarification. You know and it has to actually result in a conviction. Yeah a couple more questions Madam Chair.

36:39These cables are they they're insulated cables I assume they are. Does the insulation have to be removed or burned off before it can question.

36:47So how the recycling or precious metal type of realm works it's more valuable when it's stripped but it can still be recycled with the coding.

36:56Although our coatings do have markings on it that have city of Milwaukee so that's things that we have done to identify.

37:02And so if if folks do strip it obviously that comes into raw cable which is different than actually having it coded and they typically burn it off.

37:09Is that there are strippers out there you can purchase and you can put in a machine that will strip it quite quickly.

37:14I just have a lot of friends in the electrical world. So that does exist. You can do it with razor blades other types of things.

37:19So it's not just burning it off. And what's the approximate scrap value that I do not know the top of my head.

37:28I know copper is four times more valuable than the aluminum. So I mean I just don't know that value.

37:33I'm just trying to get a sense of the economics of this. I mean what's the incentive because you know how much does a hundred feet of our standard cable way.

37:42And then what's the value on the scrap market for that hundred feet of cable. We can find that out for sure though.

37:50But yeah I mean because copper is valuable and that's the most thing I know it got up to near double digits and per pound at one time.

37:57I don't know if it's up there right now but I can find that details out and what the actual weight of our actual cable is per length.

38:01And what what voltage is typically in these lines. Does it vary by the. Is it just standard 110.

38:08I'll bring in key. I don't want to get the quote the wrong thing because we have two types of systems.

38:12It's alternating current or DC. It's alternating for the new system in KV street lighting.

38:18Sorry. What is your question again. How what is the actual voltage in the actual street lighting lines.

38:24Most of them they are in 240. Yeah. But we also have the older CS circuit. They are operating in twenty two hundred and those are extremely dangerous.

38:3320 200 volts. Yes. You don't want to touch those. Yeah. So the stuff you see our old circuitry which the ones that failed the most are a higher voltage which are way more dangerous.

38:42And those are more direct barriers so they don't usually target those areas because it's harder to get out.

38:46But that is that is some serious voltage. So yes the newer circuits are at 240 which is more than your standard outlet.

38:52Like if you get that. Yeah. OK. You said 240. Yeah. And then 20 200 200 for the old circuit.

39:01The new one that most of the death have been is 240. Yes. Twenty two hundred votes at 240. OK. Yeah.

39:11Question. And I'm sorry I should notice. Mom you might know this more than anybody. And it's kind of don't have to do with the reward.

39:23What should I do with the issue. I know we just passed to find them higher. But are we able to make them pay restitution. Yes. OK.

39:36We can do that. Yeah. So what's happening in a lot of these criminal complaints and things that are coming through there is a restitution line.

39:41So what will happen is the paperwork will come back to us. How much cable is lost tied to an incident.

39:45Which sometimes isn't clear. But that's what we were trying to do as well. OK. That's good.

39:51I mean for the public that's trying to do this. This is a class one felony. So it's not you know you're not going to slap on the hand.

39:56This is very serious charges that we're doing and it's not the only charge that we're tied to this. So it's the theft of basically utility and there's other

40:03charges are assigned with that. So it's it's a serious offense. All right. We have been joined by our one man pride.

40:10One of the co-sponsors. All the women pride. We are on the substitute resolution directing the public works to establish a reward program for

40:18individuals who provide information relating to theft of electrical wires. Is there anything that you wanted to say. Can't even hear you.

40:33Are you if you're talking we can't hear you. Is there anything with us. We'll try to check and see if it's on our end or your end.

40:44You might need to hang up and rejoin. So just for one clarity I did get it's six dollars a pound if it's stripped wire.

40:51Just get enough dollars. Correct. If it's true. How much is a hundred foot of cable. That's what I'll find our weight. But it's expensive.

41:00Six dollars a pound they get for copper wire right now if it's stripped. Six dollars a pound after a certain amount of income at the place

41:14that they're purchasing. Is there ordinance or some laws that they have to follow.

41:19We'll see this is what we're trying to follow up and this is where is it going. That's what we have to follow up. And so what what gauge wire do we

41:26typically use. We have your number two number two number two. We have number six. We have a pretty heavy wire. Yes. Oh yes. Yes.

41:35So I think I asked this probably when I said publicly the type of wiring that we use. Is it distinctive. So if I was a recycler and somebody

41:44brought in some copper would it be obvious to me that this is from. Yes.

41:48So the stuff that we have and we've started to do is we market. So we have city of Milwaukee on the outside which is actually the coding.

41:54And so the difficulty is is how do you stamp if it's stripped. And because that comes into raw wire and that's more of the challenge.

42:00So if it comes in coded we know exactly where it's going. And basically any of the folks that are taking this into process that they'll know.

42:07But if it's stripped and just raw that's the difficulty because you can't just write city and walk in on the on the road.

42:16All the women pride is you want to try again. It's still my stuff. I'm sorry. We can't hear you. You can't call into crime and just send you

42:32something. I'm sure I remember. Yeah thank you so much. I mean I think to you know to respond to something that Alderman Bowman said earlier.

42:41I mean as far as the economics here I mean we should acknowledge that there's a lot of desperate people out there right now.

42:49I mean you go to the grocery you got to pick and save in a bag of groceries is like one hundred twenty dollars.

42:53I mean that you know so that that's that there's the motive right there. You know for why this is occurring.

42:57You know the people are being pushed into desperate situations. If we're converting some of our and then separately I was wondering for DPW

43:06if we're converting some of our wiring to aluminum and this is I'm not familiar with how this stuff works.

43:12That's why I need to ask this. Are we and then I had a follow up question as well. Are we is aluminum.

43:19Does it conduct electricity as well. I mean are we using an inferior material when we switch to answer your question.

43:26Yes I mean aluminum is has less conductivity than copper. Does that mean it doesn't work. No it's not a simple switch from cable.

43:34There's other things that have to tie into our system. It's just something we're trying to do and aluminum is still a precious metal

43:39too. So it can be recycled as copper. You just don't get the value as you do. But it is something it's not uncommon across the

43:46country. But it doesn't affect what you see in the outside for the public. But it does complicate things in the backside for us.

43:52OK. OK. Yeah. So that's not ideal. But I think you know I think we were talking about the different types of configurations of our

44:02circuits and we have just so I maybe let me see if I can let me see if I can get this right. We have we have series series circuit

44:08which is kind of like the old Christmas lights where one light goes out the rest of it goes out and then we have multiple

44:13circuits. Yes. As well. OK. So that's it. That's what we're dealing with. And they're they're stealing. You're saying from both of

44:20those or is there a preference. There's a preference for the newer circuitry which obviously has less voltage in there. OK. And so

44:26that's what's been targeted lately. OK. So that's this. So literally the stuff that we want the things that work better there.

44:32It's kind of ironic to conceptualize it that way. But they're stealing from are the upgrades that we want to have all across the city.

44:39That is correct. OK. All right. It just went away. Her collar. What I what I will say to I was just at a neighborhood meeting last

44:53night where our neighbors were getting their were getting their alert neighbor cameras and lights and stuff as well as their good

45:06neighbor stuff. It was all in one meeting. And one of the pastors at the church that it was that she said you know we really have

45:14the dark out situation over here. And you guys should bring temporary lights over here for the safety of folks. And while I ask you to

45:25speak to the reality of the possibilities of that I will say in those neighborhoods that have been affected in the time period

45:33that it takes us to to fix everything. I would encourage neighbors to leave their porch lights on. I would encourage neighbors if you're

45:43not a part of the alert neighbor program to join it so that we can help with additional lighting and camera as well. And I would

45:52encourage our neighbors to look out for one another. I also would encourage you to if you haven't caught into the city to let us

46:00know let us know. But something I would say to you Commissioner is I will hope that communication with NPD is not solely based

46:09upon the thefts that it is also based upon area outages that you know are there because of the thefts because I think what we

46:17should also be pushing for. And this is to us as all those two who have this in our issue in our district is for a greater

46:24presence in those areas that are dark out because if any thief is watching this they will also know it's going to take a

46:30minute to fix those areas. So those areas are going to be dark for a minute which unfortunately the darkness oftentimes attracts

46:39some criminality. I think we should be pushing for. They should know which areas that is for the period of time that we know that

46:48there are outages so that where possible there can be a greater presence to prevent the criminality that too often happens in

46:56the darkness from happening. So just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head. But I think we have to continue to think

47:02of the things that can be done to help keep these neighborhoods safe in the meantime while we're working on the issue.

47:09But to the point of temporary lighting brought out by the city you want to speak to that. Yeah that's it's something I think

47:16we've talked about in the past and obviously the cost of that is we can put that together at least report back to what that

47:22looks like because that can be in multiple different facets from you know do we put generators and run at which could be

47:30invasive. I mean we'll do some research and kind of report back what that would look like because I think it's the expense is

47:35probably high. Really I think it's just fixing the circuitry. And I'm glad you brought it up because we do get a lot of calls

47:41like my street lights have been out for five days and then we go to the records. We don't know about it. So we're still

47:46encouraging people. Please call because we will get there fast. Right now we have 30 outages as of today. We're looking

47:52at about an average three day spin around which we've got much better than we have during this than the high peak of theft

47:57that has occurred. And so we're getting pretty quick if we know about it because we don't know. I think the public assumes

48:02when the streetlights go out we've got this magic map of the city of Milwaukee where it dings and says you're out of

48:06streetlights. That's not the case. So we need the public's help just to notify us. Madam Chair I'm Mr. Are we using just

48:14286 city. Yep. 286 city. Do you think it's time for us to develop a line strictly just for reporting outages. It goes

48:23right into the system. It's the same thing. It won't be going to create something new or it won't be quicker. It won't be

48:28quicker. No. No. All right. Just a thought. Thank you. All right. Let's try one last time to see. I think we got

48:36Otto and Pratt on the board. Can you. Looks like she's there. Still can't hear you. It's going in and out. It could be a

48:46local device. Yeah. Technical difficulties unfortunately. We know she's with it. Yeah we know. She's definitely with it. But

48:56OK. Any other questions from committee. So I've got a I'm sure this is not just in my district but I have certain

49:04areas obviously you have the outages where you have several lights out being affected by a defective circuit. Also

49:16have where constituents are reaching out with single lights that are out. So what is the turnaround time. And I understand

49:27those are low priorities because you got to take care of the big issues first. But where are we with that. I've got one

49:34person who keeps harassing me because. And yeah. And he's like it's been out for a year. I've been reporting it for a year. I mean I

49:48understand that it's it is a lower priority compared to the bigger issues. However I've got to give him something. I've got

49:57it. I've got to let him know like this is where we're at. I mean a year is a long time. Absolutely. I'll find out what the

50:04actual turnaround is. And so I mean it shouldn't take a year to get that. I mean it is a delayed response because obviously our

50:09priorities for neighborhood wide outages. But what we will do if you have that particular one just let me know. It shouldn't

50:15take a year. But it is more of a delayed process. I'll find out the actual time frame. And then in it you know the

50:22frustrating frustrating thing on my end is you know when I reach out to management you know and I'm saying like hey this has

50:32been reported for a year straight. The only answer I'm receiving is we're back logged. We're busy. I mean sure. But I need

50:43something more specific after having a constituent reach out for a year. More details in our response. Absolutely. Madam

50:51chair one more question along. The worry individual streetlight is out and your crews respond in the daytime. How do

51:01they know that's the streetlight that's out. Is there a way of detecting if it's operable where it's off. Yeah. They can do

51:09it. I mean they can do it during the day but usually it's a report like an address will have it's in front of this particular

51:13location is what usually comes in. So if you have an address. There's identifying numbers on the polls. There is. So that

51:19would be the best reference is the poll number correct. That is correct. If folks know where to look for that it's not

51:24obvious. So there there's a way of in the way of determining whether a streetlight is out even though it's off. Yes. OK. Yeah.

51:33Just like they have testing. So if they go into these areas they can test. I mean that's that's part of the process. OK. Well

51:41that's too hard to have the constituent or the community grab a number man. I ask them to grab the poll number. It's right

51:48down there. Yes it is. That's specific. All right. Any other questions from committee. Excellent job. All right.

52:10Order me and what's more than one more adoption hearing objections. So order. Thank you. Item number 14 and file number

52:25two six zero eight five five resolution directing a commissioner of public works to execute a document title

52:36state municipal financial agreement and state municipal maintenance agreement for a state highway project with the Wisconsin

52:43Department of Transportation for street lighting work and five sanitary manhose adjustment seal replacement as not participating

52:54utility items within the city of Milwaukee city limit on Project Kearney Street between 72nd Street and 76th Street as part

53:03of the with that project and to set up funds for instruction and an estimated total cost of eighty seven thousand nine hundred and

53:11twenty dollars with a hundred percent city share in Keeley Street lighting at CDC. Any questions from committee. Hearing

53:25other men. All the women Taylor will move adoption. Can objections so order item number 15 file number two six zero eight

53:34six two resolution authorizing a commissioner of public works to execute project agreements title state municipal agreement

53:41for an infrastructure transportation alternatives program project with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation and to set up

53:47design engineering at a total estimated cost of six hundred eighty eight thousand five hundred and fifty five hundred and

53:53forty nine dollars with an estimated city of Milwaukee share of one hundred and thirty seven thousand seven hundred and

53:59nine dollars and a grand tour share of five hundred and fifty thousand eight hundred and forty dollars for two projects.

54:08Good morning Mike Amston Department of Public Works transportation planning manager. These are two tap projects traffic safety

54:15improvements one on Burleye between Lisbon and Roosevelt and then the other on Holton extending work we've done on the

54:23Holton Street Biaduct up to Center Street. Are there any questions. Sure. These are race crosswalks. I assume a combination of

54:33things protected bikeways improve crossings including perhaps some race crosswalks curb extensions as well as some street

54:40trees and lawns here on the general subject of traffic calming which this covers. Are we are we evaluating the feedback we

54:49get on some of these traffic calming installations because I'm getting an increased volume of the perfectly honest

54:56complaints about the induced congestion that we're creating. You know the recent Highland project from 27 to 35th has

55:05generated some pushback in terms of cuing at traffic signals people having to wait two or three cycles. And I mean I'm just

55:16curious are we fine tuning these designs to sort of strike a balance between street parking versus bike lanes versus

55:27induced congestion versus medians which prevent one from getting around a park truck unloading. I mean another we're

55:37reducing the flexibility of our streets by channeling traffic into these basically fixed routes. And I'm just wondering if

55:48there's an ongoing review or we're just sort of plowing ahead essentially with blinders on and said well this is the

55:55prescription we've adopted and we're going full bore and because I am getting increasing church back. No I would say I

56:03mean we are absolutely evaluating the work we do. We have a pretty now substantial project evaluation

56:10dashboard that we can send out to y'all and to all council members for all projects substantial projects not small

56:18stale projects but substantial projects we're collecting at minimum speed and crash data. We've seen very positive

56:24results across the board. Highland for example west of 35th has probably been one of our more successful projects in

56:30terms of reduced speeds and crashes. We are also committed to making tweaks and improvements if need be. And we've done

56:38that 35th and Highland for example. We are looking at the traffic signal time and to see if there's tweaks we can make

56:45things like that. I would say you know I think we've been pretty clear that there may be a bit of increased congestion

56:53during a peak 15 30 minutes. And you know we see the trade off of more safety slower speeds throughout the day opposed

57:02to that. Yeah as a good trade off. There are people who are. Yeah. You know the constitutional right to drive as fast as I want whatever I

57:08want. No we're evaluating it and we don't want to create congestion and chaos all hours of the day. Right. That's not the

57:17intense but we will make tweaks when needed. There's one particular trouble spot in my district and it is it is Van Buren

57:23and Ogden that one pinned on bump out. Yeah. That requires the route 30 bus to basically swing entirely. Yeah. Into the

57:33westbound lane a log in to make that turn. Yeah we just got a request from MCTS to look at that. So we're that we're actively

57:39looking at that location as well. I could see removing that dump out that pinned on. Yep. No MCTS reached out to us just this

57:47week or last. It's on our radar. All right. Very good. So I have a question. But this is us paying 100 percent. No 20 percent.

58:00This is a federal grant. So and this is setting up design funding. So the total request for the two projects or the total

58:09cost for design is six hundred and eighty eight thousand five hundred forty nine dollars with a city share of one thirty seven

58:16seven oh nine. Twenty percent. So the two projects are bike lanes. They're traffic safety improvement projects. So bike

58:23lanes bump outs street trees are part of it as well as a whole. And I think it's a great example where there's not a lot of

58:29street trees along that corridor. So within the bump outs looking at adding street trees and that improved crossings as

58:35well. Why does it always say bike lane on here. You know honestly I'm not sure. That's a that's a state DOT language they

58:46use for the grants agreement. But no I you know we we have money in there for pedestrian safety improvements and land

58:53staping as well on the Houghton one. It says reservoir to center. Are there other plans for a center to like capital. Yeah. So

59:03there's the Houghton Street mini roundabout project which you may be familiar with. So that's looking at three

59:09intersections I believe along Houghton Street to address intersection safety as well. So yes we're looking at kind of that

59:15whole corridor. But when you say the trees and all of that I just in my mind I'm seeing going down Houghton. So half of it I

59:25have trees and other have one like where we can fit trees and it's not going to be like a tree lined boulevard by any

59:31means. But yes we'll be looking at as part of this project up to Center Street some some street trees where we can or

59:37landscaping. OK. And you spoke about the trees the bike lane. How is the bike lane going to be. Yeah. Is it protected.

59:45Is it like what what is it. Yeah. I think to Alderman Bauman's point to you know one thing we've heard across a lot of our

59:50projects is the importance of parking. So something that we're doing more of now and we envision doing on Houghton Street

59:55obviously there'll be an engagement process and community involvement but.

1:00:00Currently, if you can picture Van Buren up to the Holden Street Viaduct, we have that

1:00:03two-way bikeway on the east side of the street. I think that's our intent. That's what we'd

1:00:09prefer. Obviously, we'll get some feedback on that. And by doing that two-way bikeway

1:00:13or adding that two-way bikeway, it really minimizes parking impacts almost completely.

1:00:19Obviously, at some intersections, we may make some tweaks to parking for visibility, but

1:00:24we're only touching one side of the street and we're not impacting parking nearly as

1:00:28much as we would if it were one way on either side.

1:00:31The other thing is right there, when you come over the bridge, residents have done petitions

1:00:38and they've asked for quite some time for there to be an elevated crosswalk over there.

1:00:44And I think historically, we've said, no. With this project, is that, and as you get

1:00:50more input, could that be a possibility?

1:00:54That intersection will be a priority for improvements. And I don't know exactly what we can do at

1:00:58this point, but yes, we've heard a lot as well and we will focus our attention there.

1:01:01Can you make sure when the public hears, because I know you all have received the

1:01:05petitions and all of that, that you notify the folks who initiated that?

1:01:11Yeah, absolutely.

1:01:12So that that can be a part of those discussions?

1:01:14Absolutely.

1:01:16Okay, Mr. Chair.

1:01:17Madam Member.

1:01:18On the raised crosswalks, is there a standard design or is each one sort of customized

1:01:27by the contractor on the site? I ask because there's, speaking of Holden Street, my travels

1:01:33to Blifford Lumber frequently take me down Holden and there's a killer raised crosswalk

1:01:39at Holden and Chambers.

1:01:41I don't want to literally is, I mean, it's a three mile an hour raised crosswalk.

1:01:48Yeah, I'm not a design engineer, so I don't want to speak exactly to the numbers. There

1:01:51are thresholds that need to be met. And I would also say that, so not everything will

1:01:57look the same. A lot of it is dependent on slopes of the street itself, of meeting grades

1:02:01with ADA ramps. And we've also iterated over time, right? There definitely are some more

1:02:05aggressive ones that went in. You know, initially, you've likely seen throughout the city now,

1:02:11we're adding the red colored concrete to them to make them more visible as well. So,

1:02:15but there are thresholds. I don't want to give you the numbers. I don't know them exactly

1:02:18off the top of my head, but yes, there is a, there is a standard detail that needs

1:02:21to be met.

1:02:23And the Highland project, 27 to 30, did we have any community outreach? Because I asked

1:02:28because it was, the project was started like three years ago. And I literally forgot.

1:02:32I think five years ago, maybe. Yeah, we had talked with you quite a bit about it. That

1:02:37was one of our initial ARPA funded projects that we were trying to address a lot of that

1:02:40kind of, you know, high speed passing on the right, dual lanes, not a ton of community

1:02:47engagement on that one. I think a couple of project flyers went out, but that was the

1:02:51great sense of that.

1:02:57Yeah, thank you so much. No, this is a, this is a really good conversation. I really appreciate

1:03:02that the department has been using the concrete coloring. That's been, that's been, that's

1:03:08been really helpful. And I know we just had a speed hump installed on Oakland. I really

1:03:13appreciate it. I, I would say that there's, you know, the, the, you know, there's, there's

1:03:16mixed opinions on these things, right? I mean, it, you know, I would say that I think

1:03:20for the, for the Holton and any, any of these traffic calming, I think whether they're

1:03:24higher or lower, I mean, I think if it's a one with an increased height, I, I would

1:03:28imagine there's some constituents of mine that would love to hear the satisfying crunch

1:03:33of somebody who bottoms out a speeder, a negligent speeder who crunches the bottom

1:03:37of their car. That's the, and that's probably satisfying to some constituents for the constituent

1:03:41who was driving that vehicle like that, you know, isn't the case, right? And not everybody,

1:03:48you know, is everybody has a different perspective in this world. And so not everybody is fully

1:03:52aware of their surroundings all the time. I think the traffic calming accomplishes

1:03:55that that when you hit one of those things, like, Oh yeah, I got to be to pay attention.

1:03:59Probably should put the phone down while I'm driving. You know, and so that's a good

1:04:02way to do, you know, to accomplish those things, you know, as far as the, you know,

1:04:06the broader debates, I mean, I also do get some pushback on traffic calming measures.

1:04:13I mean, it, you know, I think in other States, I was trying to find an article about this,

1:04:18but I think in other States, the backlash has been so bad that conservatives are trying

1:04:21to prohibit it, you know, municipalities from doing it. And that I mean, that's insane.

1:04:25We should be able to have enough local control to make our own decisions here. But as far

1:04:29as the, you know, the increased congestion, you know, it's a, I would argue that it's

1:04:34a balance and it's a small price to pay for, you know, for more lives being saved as well.

1:04:40I mean, we can't put a price on a human life that has been saved in somebody who didn't

1:04:46die when they were a kid because traffic was so fast and they grew up and they can be fully

1:04:52self-actualized and cure cancer and all that other stuff. Right. And so that's just all

1:04:56this stuff. We have to, we have to balance. I think that outside of the harm that we do

1:05:01to each other through slavery and war and everything that I think the car was one of

1:05:06the most harmful things developed in humanity. You know, right? We're destroying the environment.

1:05:10We are addicted, we're as addicted to oil as the cocaine addict is addicted to cocaine

1:05:16in this country. Right. It's, you know, we, and now we're paying the price with our,

1:05:20the misadventures in Iran that we're engaged in and the Strait of Hormuz being closed

1:05:25and all our favorite local restaurants being closed because it's costing twice as much

1:05:29to get vegetables right now and pay for fertilizers and everything's based on oil. So I think

1:05:34like, you know, we do also need to mention to the public and as part of our public outreach,

1:05:39and I try to do this, that, you know, gosh, you know, even though there's all kinds of

1:05:44constraints on life right now, we've got to slow down a little bit. Yeah. Just in every

1:05:48single way that we're, that we're existing. And so this, this traffic come and accomplishes

1:05:53that. So I'll admit like there's, there's pros and cons. Sure. To all of this stuff,

1:05:57you know, right? Like people don't like being behind a bus that has to, you know, stop,

1:06:03you know, stop there. It's waiting. And then now that the ramp is coming down and it's

1:06:07really slow and people get upset about that. And they're like, Oh, we just went through

1:06:10a whole cycle of lights and I could see how that'd be frustrating. But really it is a

1:06:14small price to pay, I think in the, in the end when you weigh all these things that are

1:06:17going on. So I appreciate the department, you know, pushing this overall. I just want

1:06:21to add, and we can't solve all those issues you brought up, but I, a couple other items

1:06:25that I want to just reference since this has come up here, you know, we're doing a

1:06:29lot of infrastructure. We're also now moving into a lot more education and awareness building

1:06:34of the work, which we realized we need to be doing. So a couple projects, one, our transportation

1:06:39and mobility plan four one four in motion. We've actually done a lot of surveying of

1:06:43community members and you're right. We hear it too, right? Like we hear the people who

1:06:47don't like it, but what we've found from a lot of our surveying is that there are people

1:06:51who do like it, which you all know as well. But so we're trying to figure out like, where

1:06:54is that number? What, where is that actual support? And there is a lot of support for

1:06:57traffic comma. We just don't hear about it as much. And then the second thing we're

1:07:01doing, which we're really excited about, and you may have seen some of this out on

1:07:03the streets already, is we have a safe streets and roads for all federal grants that's allowing

1:07:09us to pilot and try out various different messaging and communications tactics to build

1:07:14awareness and education on the traffic calming. So the bus shelter right here at Wisconsin

1:07:20wells and water has a pretty cool graphic sounded about traffic calming. It has data

1:07:26on it saying how effective it is. And so we're doing that on bus shelters, on bubbler

1:07:30bikes stations, on MCTS buses, on billboards, et cetera. So we're kind of rolling out this

1:07:35much broader education and awareness campaign as well to, to make sure that people know

1:07:40why we're doing it and to make sure that people know it's effective.

1:07:48Any other questions from committee? Thank you, Madam Chair. So we're talking about

1:07:58traffic calming, 688,000. On a rough estimate about how many projects does this cover and

1:08:10in order to fully encumber the amount of traffic calming throughout the city that is needed,

1:08:18how much you think you would need? I don't know if I can answer that second question

1:08:22off the top of my head. You can give me a rough estimate as far.

1:08:28So the first point though, the 688, that's design only. Total cost, local share is 20%

1:08:33of that, the 137. Total cost for traffic calming around the city.

1:08:38Well, that's a tough question because it depends on how much comes in. So as today

1:08:41you can multi millions of dollars from requests that we probably have sit in the queue. Long

1:08:45term, that change is based on requests that come from all the medic offices, the public

1:08:49that come in. So it's a moving target. And so, I mean, obviously we put a lot of effort

1:08:53that in millions of dollars over the past few years. So it's not, it's not a stable

1:08:57number so it constantly moves. And it depends on the scope of the traffic

1:09:01calming. If it's an individual piece versus, you know, we incorporate traffic calming

1:09:05in much larger projects as well. So full reconstruction projects, you get traffic

1:09:09calming baked into that. You know, in the grand scheme of infrastructure, traffic calming

1:09:15is a very small drop in the bucket when you're thinking about, you know, massive highway

1:09:20work and bridge work and capital construction projects. We're talking about a relatively

1:09:24small percentage. Okay. Thank you. I'm sure. I think one of the points that I think would

1:09:31be beneficial to the public that you guys have touched on some of this is that these

1:09:37are separate pots of money. I've gotten concerned from constituents. Oh, we're building all

1:09:42these bump outs, but what about the potholes? You know, and so in that, and I've tried

1:09:46to educate, I mean, and please correct me if I'm wrong that this, you know, we're looking

1:09:49right now at a federal grant that doesn't exist for potholes that exist for traffic

1:09:54calming. And if we just said, nope, sorry, we only want pothole money from the feds,

1:09:58then that, then they're not just going to give us this money for potholes. Right. It's,

1:10:02I mean, it's a separate pots of money that exists. Could you kind of describe the constraints

1:10:06here with this and why, like why I can't just make a motion right now to divert this

1:10:10to potholes? So most of the, most of the projects you see me come up to the table for our transportation

1:10:14alternatives programs or congestion mitigation and air quality projects, which those two

1:10:19federal programs primarily fund the traffic safety improvement projects, pedestrian related

1:10:24projects, trails projects, white lane projects, and a lot of like education programs as well.

1:10:29So very specific programs for the work that we're doing here, that's talked about right

1:10:33now. Yeah. So just to clarify, funding comes in multiple different ways. And so we look

1:10:38at roadways in our infrastructure. You have local dollars that we hear, we can control.

1:10:42We have those discussions to what are going on now during budget. So, you know, we could

1:10:46pave less roadways to focus on potholes, but I think the problem here is paving. So

1:10:51that's one aspect. A lot of the stuff you'll see in front of Public Works, as, as Mike

1:10:54had said, these are state and federal rate grants. And so we'll do traffic calming tied

1:10:58into those, but those are dollars that are outside of there. So we put, you know, skin

1:11:01in the game here, which is usually about 20% in some of these projects. But that's

1:11:05a whole different pot of money that goes through. So yes, you're right. I mean, the

1:11:08public views it as, oh, it's just money. You put everything towards potholes. That's

1:11:11not the case because there's different funding sources, you know, things that we control

1:11:14as our local budget, which are discussions we're going on right now. So this grantor

1:11:18for sure of 550,000 is for transportation alternatives and could not be directed in

1:11:23any other way, even if we ask nicely to wish dot or the feds. Correct. Correct. Okay.

1:11:28Madam Chair, on a member strictly speaking, we probably have adequate funds to fill potholes.

1:11:36It's deep. It's the manpower right now. Yes. It's the limitations on the cruise. So it's

1:11:41not a money problem with potholes. It's a execution problem with equipment trucks personnel.

1:11:48Yeah. Well, which comes into a money problem because there's capital cost to buy vehicles

1:11:52and pay folks. So that's part of it. But just, I just want to point out that the main,

1:11:58the main conundrum, I think the public sees, I've seen to this on Facebook is how do they

1:12:02have all this money for traffic calming and not money to repave my local road. And I

1:12:07would say to a lot of that traffic calming that you see, especially on the kind of neighborhood

1:12:12scale, that's coming from the residents. That's through our community, like traffic

1:12:16calming, which is kind of, you know, really exploded in popularity and we're doing much

1:12:19more than we ever have beyond just speed humps now. So there's a lot of light skin

1:12:23in the game too, from just locally, you know, people wanting those things.

1:12:27I just appreciate the clarification and then the, and the confirmation that, you know,

1:12:34these are, these are separate pots of money. Even within the city's budget, we allocate

1:12:37some for traffic calming and then the, you know, thank you for pointing that out. There's

1:12:40the 30% resident share. So a third of those costs of traffic calming are being covered

1:12:44by the adjoining tax, taxable entities, taxable property entities that are around that project

1:12:52as well.

1:12:55Any other questions from committee? Hearing none, Aldermen, Brouwer will move adoption.

1:13:07In objection, so order item number 16, file number 26086 die resolution authorizing the

1:13:15department of public works. Milwaukee water works to execute a second amendment to extend

1:13:22the inter governmental cooperation agreement between the city of Milwaukee and Milwaukee

1:13:26public schools for the school to work transition program.

1:13:31Good morning. Jane is slow water works administration manager with Milwaukee water works. The MPS

1:13:37school to work transition program is available to special education students in their junior

1:13:43senior year. They spend time, they spend a semester kind of rotating around a different

1:13:49host employers to learn some real world job skills and gain some experience so that they're

1:13:57ready to transition into the workforce when they graduate from high school. Water works

1:14:02has been one of the host partners for the last three years. We host students three

1:14:07to four a semester. It started at our Howard treatment plant. More recently it expanded

1:14:12to DPW field headquarters. They're learning things like how to use a lathe at the plants.

1:14:19They're learning things like vehicle detailing at field headquarters. And so this resolution

1:14:26would allow us to execute an amendment to extend the agreement by an additional year

1:14:32through January of 2028. It's been a very mutually rewarding partnership certainly for

1:14:38the students, of course, but also for our staff who are learning mentorship skills and

1:14:43working with these students. So we're eager to keep it going. And I'm happy to answer

1:14:47any questions you may have. Madam chair, I know that you had asked for some demographic

1:14:51information and some information about which schools have been served. My partner at MPS

1:14:57is getting that for me. She just didn't have it in time for the meeting today.

1:15:01Okay. Any questions from committee?

1:15:05Madam chair.

1:15:07First of all, thank you so much for engaging in this program and asking us to -- I'm glad

1:15:12to support this today here. My question is just how can we -- what can we do as the

1:15:19council to help to replicate this so that every single piece of DPW has a pipeline

1:15:27from our high schools so that, you know, let's take them -- they walk off the graduation

1:15:32stage. Let's have them walk right into a DPW truck so they can start doing some stuff

1:15:35for our residents, right? And I'm being a little silly when I say that, but the sentiment

1:15:40is there that I -- like, what can we do as the council to have more opportunities like

1:15:44this and have more partnership with our great public schools that we want to support here

1:15:50at the council and have us move forward so that we can also fill the jobs that we need

1:15:55filled at DPW.

1:15:56Yeah. So I can jump into that because I know they're focused more on water. We have constant

1:16:02conversations at MPS, and I think it's just continue to have those discussions. We partner

1:16:06with them in Pulaski related to vehicle service technicians. We do Vincent High School related

1:16:10to our urban forestry because that's where they kind of specialize. And I know Aaron

1:16:14who is at MPS, we have conversations in trying to build a better pipeline. I know I've had

1:16:18conversations with Alderwoman Taylor before. It's just we've got to do that more robustly,

1:16:22and I think this is one of the avenues that we do that. And urban forestry is another

1:16:26example of we're pulling a lot of folks out of those schools. And you're right, we have

1:16:30to expand further than just the three. But yeah, I mean, just awareness and keep on talking

1:16:35about it. But we're working back on the backside on a lot of these efforts.

1:16:39I'd love to be available to help. I mean, I'd love to see, you know, let's -- we even

1:16:43have, you know, we have our laborer position, and that can be done by -- I mean, can that

1:16:47even be done by students over the summers as they -- and then they can come right into

1:16:51that position after graduating? And I know that's, you know, not like a specialized trade,

1:16:56but maybe there's even opportunities for things like that.

1:16:59All right. Are there any questions on committee? All right. Hearing none, Alderwoman Taylor

1:17:10would move adoption. You know, adoption is so ordered. Item number 17, file number 191930,

1:17:18communication from the Department of Public Works relating to the status of current and

1:17:21future operations. Sponsored by Alderwoman Barman.

1:17:29Good morning. Tom Wangerin, Director of Operations with DPW. Just wanted to start with the fall

1:17:34leaf collection with sanitation. So, that is ongoing. We would call last week what

1:17:38is our active drop or a heavy drop. So, really, a lot of the leaves remaining on the trees

1:17:43until maybe last Sunday or Monday. So, we're moving in full force to push those leaves

1:17:48to consolidate them and then to collect them. Wanted to, again, outline what is on our

1:17:55Milwaukee.gov/leaves information site, as well as what was sent out in our sanitation

1:18:01fall mailer and as well as the municipal services bill, the different options. So,

1:18:06we have the option to mulch leaves in the yard. Residents can leave them if possible.

1:18:13They could also rake the leaves to one foot away from the curb line. And all year round

1:18:18for free, they could also take leaves to one of our two drop-off centers, which currently

1:18:24are open from Tuesday to Sunday. And winter hours would start November 30th, which is

1:18:30Tuesday to Saturday. We've received -- well, and also the new option, of course, to use

1:18:36paper bags for bagged leaf pickup. To date, for this season, we've received approximately

1:18:44250 requests for the pickup of bagged leaves. Just last week, we received and picked up

1:18:51around 150 requests. And that's just ongoing along with our operation. The leaf information

1:19:00site that we have also has an ever-changing leaf collection map, so three colors in that

1:19:08map indicating zones. The most important, I suppose, would be the green. That means

1:19:13that the collection and consolidation of the leaves is imminent in your neighborhood.

1:19:19So that would mean you have approximately one to three days to rake out to curb, if

1:19:23that's the method that you so choose. Yellow would mean that the piles on the curb are

1:19:28currently being consolidated into larger piles. And orange would mean that the larger piles

1:19:33are actively being collected. So any residents out there that are considering the timing

1:19:39of when they're raking, if they don't want the leaf sitting in their gutter for a long

1:19:43amount of time, they can use that tool, that map, to help plan that. And obviously, it

1:19:48may come more in handy for residents along the time of the deadline and the last kind

1:19:56of wave of leaf pick-up. The information site also, as of this week, includes just

1:20:03a little photo gallery that we call LeafWatch. So it's a representative of 12 locations

1:20:12citywide. The goal is to, on a weekly basis, take the same photo from the same angle

1:20:18in those 12 locations, just so that there's an awareness out there as to the overall

1:20:23leaf drop status in the city. So we can collectively monitor kind of where we're at. I would put

1:20:32a really, really rough estimate out there. I mean, maybe between 30 and 40 percent in

1:20:36volume citywide has been dropped onto winter operations. So we're actively preparing for

1:20:45winter operations. So we've had the active prep of the snow response vehicles, the service

1:20:51and the outfitting of those vehicles. The driver and yard meetings are ongoing. So we

1:20:56had our first driver meeting and yard meeting yesterday. There will be one today and then

1:21:00three next week. So winter season, unfortunately, someone has started. Last Friday, we actually

1:21:08conducted a preventative anti-icing run on bridge decks. And that's where we applied

1:21:14behind a bridge deck when there's frost in the forecast. And we did see that there was

1:21:18a frost advisory overnight into Saturday morning. That's one where we can take advantage

1:21:24of having staff on hand for shift. It's six operators, so fairly passive part of the day,

1:21:30up to six hours, just making sure that we're being preventative. So that was last Friday.

1:21:37Some new updates with snow. We're doing a pilot with what is called solar salt. That's

1:21:42essentially a pure form of what we use for our rock salt, sorry. It's developed by pretty

1:21:50much precipitating out the salt from a brine mix in an industrial format. So the benefits

1:21:57to that that we understand and are going to be measuring in this pilot, number one,

1:22:03it cuts the production time of our brine in about half so far as we've been developing

1:22:09it or making it. It's pure salt, so there's no contaminants of possible clay or shale

1:22:16that would come into rock salt. So where that falls into play is with our equipment. So

1:22:22we take preventative measures on that rock salt produced brine that would kind of naturally

1:22:28cause a little bit of build up, a little bit of debris clogging, which is an active part

1:22:33of our everyday operation every year. But the idea with rock solar salt is that it won't

1:22:39lead to those same issues. So what we'll be developing also includes the effectiveness

1:22:45of that salt, that brine once applied. So all of this is kind of on the table as we

1:22:49weigh out this as a pilot, just doing it in a small format right now and ongoing through

1:22:54the winter season. We are also doing a pilot of liquid only application. So it would start

1:23:02with liquid only and defer to normal salt treatment if particular conditions are reached

1:23:09that kind of extend beyond the liquid treatment. That route we have operators that have a lot

1:23:16of experience that understand when these conditions are met. So we're just using it as a way

1:23:20of potential salt conservation and understanding that it's a way that we can dose the salt

1:23:27usage for the amount that's appropriate to the weather conditions in that event. There's,

1:23:34you know, as a municipality, I would say at scale, it's not something that we could,

1:23:39at least in the short term, picture citywide, obviously, but part of this pilot is going

1:23:44to be understanding where we can maybe scale this out and look at appropriate salt application.

1:23:51We also have two new pavement sensors. So we normally have a collection of around five

1:23:56pavement sensors that our duty team uses for predicting winter weather as another tool

1:24:02in dosing what salt usage we have, what type of operation we have. And the exciting part

1:24:09about those two new sensors is that they're going to be part of a network. So it's kind

1:24:13of a collective of 13 communities, around 13 communities in southeast Wisconsin, a lot

1:24:18of which are directly surrounding us like your Wauwatosa, your West Alice, South Milwaukee.

1:24:24And as a collective, we were able to coordinate and locate them in strategic places so that

1:24:32as a network, we can have a very good representation of the upcoming storm depending on the track

1:24:37of that storm. And it's just, I think, a really good collaboration opportunity. And

1:24:43that network of the immediate devices outside of the city of Milwaukee will be available

1:24:48to us so that the same kind of predictive measures that our current sensors have where

1:24:52they predict pavement temperatures, they predict road conditions. And they also, the new sensors

1:24:58along with surface temperature and moisture, they also measure the salinity. It's really

1:25:06the chlorides that they're experiencing, but they measure the salinity. So that's

1:25:10just another potentially useful variable in our overall operation and prediction.

1:25:17The overall at operations, well, specific to our equipment operators, that's one position

1:25:25that we've worked really hard to reduce the vacancies in. It's been sitting at around

1:25:2950 plus for some time. Right now, there's about, as of October 1st, there's about 55

1:25:35vacant, but we have about 30 going through an active recruitment. We're collaborating

1:25:40really well with the ER. They've been very supportive with a continuous recruitment on

1:25:46them to support our needs. So along with the continuous recruitment, we're working

1:25:50on ways to retain and training and just making sure that this position long-term won't have

1:25:56as much turnover. That's all really I have if there's any questions.

1:26:00Madam Chair?

1:26:01Autumn Obama.

1:26:02A couple of months back, maybe even a year back, we had a project to mount cameras on

1:26:10some vehicles to identify potholes. Did we ever do that?

1:26:16So that is, and I can have Kevin, I mean, he could probably touch base with you outside

1:26:19of this. And so that was a pilot program. They put on a couple of vehicles. I don't

1:26:23have the data on that or where that sits, but I can have Kevin follow up with you.

1:26:27I do think it's active. I just don't know how many vehicles it has on top of my head.

1:26:31Okay. Number two, do we have any, for leaf collection, do we have any special protocols

1:26:37for leaf collection in heavy parking areas, particularly parking exempt areas where double

1:26:45site parking is allowed. And I mean, I think that's primarily the third district portions

1:26:51of my district where you can never get to the curb literally unless you're repeatedly

1:26:57going back and hoping people have left, which is usually in the late mornings. I mean, overnight

1:27:02is when the parking is most concentrated actually. So I'm just curious if there's any special

1:27:08protocol for those types of neighborhoods.

1:27:12There is, I couldn't get into, I can follow up with the specifics, but I do understand

1:27:16that they would, we would make sure we visit those sites when possible when we have actual

1:27:23like the most access to them. Yes. And that's part of also the other option, the new option

1:27:30obviously to bag leaves this year. It's very circumstantial right now. I mean, bagged leaves

1:27:35right now, the requests are more of a product very likely of where the largest volume of

1:27:42leaves have dropped at this point in the city. But there's early evidence showing that some

1:27:46of these particular streets actually are begging their leaves with the understanding that

1:27:51it can be difficult to pick them up there. Well, that is logical, but that's not necessarily

1:27:57going to filter down to the residents, especially if you have a high percentage of renters.

1:28:02Renters are not going to sit there and bag leaves. I can almost very rarely. Yeah. And

1:28:08I think what operations is trying to do is identify those exception parking areas where

1:28:12they can access and maybe not be a hundred percent, but I think it did like 50% of the

1:28:16street where folks are actually going to work to get as majority of the leaves out

1:28:19of the public right away as possible. Any other questions? My questions are in relation

1:28:34to leaves. I know last year with these huge leaf piles, um, crews or, or, uh, management

1:28:45lost some of those piles. So what has changed from last year to this year to make note

1:28:52of where those piles are as well as the placement of those piles, uh, has a couple of constituents

1:28:59reach out and say that a lot of those pop, not a lot, a few instances where those piles

1:29:04are placed on top of catch basins. And they were concerned with, uh, rain and obviously

1:29:11flooding. So we're, we're, we're, I mean, are they instructed to put these piles in

1:29:19certain places? If they are near catch basins, how long were those piles supposed to stay

1:29:24there before, you know, being moved? The answer about how long depends on where exactly

1:29:30we are in the rotation of the entire city. Um, the, the guidance is to, yeah, play some

1:29:35clear catch basins. And if they're obviously as, as you referenced might be, might've

1:29:39been, uh, largely files that were condensed on catch basins, obviously that's not what

1:29:44we would guide our staff to do, not what we would want. So knowing about those situations

1:29:49would certainly be helpful. Um, to get to, uh, how we are tracking it. So we, we have

1:29:56been using route where, uh, software and sanitation now pretty steady, I believe for

1:30:00about two years, uh, with that includes some innovative use that, um, some of it is particular

1:30:07to only the city, how the city of Milwaukee is using it. Um, I, I believe there's some

1:30:12strategies there that are being used to track that on route where, uh, again, I can't

1:30:16really get into the specifics. Um, I can follow up on that, but, uh, route where we're

1:30:21always looking for new uses for the, the tool of route where.

1:30:25Okay. And then, uh, back to the placement of those piles. If they're not on top of

1:30:30catch basins, if they're close to like how far away should they be? I mean, is, is there,

1:30:36uh, there's not particular guidance, but as far as ways you can be from catch basins,

1:30:40there's catch basins all over the city. So obviously, but if they're, if they're close,

1:30:44I mean, is it like they're okay to be there for, I don't know, 20 as long as there's

1:30:51no rain coming. Like, how does that work? So the key is, is even with the rake out,

1:30:55I mean, what we tell folks is to stay away from the, the curb line. So if there can

1:30:58be a buffer in there, so at least can sit in the roadway. And if we stay away from

1:31:02that curb line and gives a pathway for the water to access the catch basin, that's the

1:31:06key. And we have visuals that sit in our leaf website, et cetera. I know sometimes

1:31:09that's tough when, you know, leaves blow around, but for the most part, no matter

1:31:13the size of the pile, if there is a buffer away from that curb line where water can

1:31:16flow to it's fine. Um, and obviously we're going to try to get them as fast as possible,

1:31:20but we cannot emphasize enough that if you can just leave that buffer, put them in the

1:31:26roadway, that's fine, but just leave that buffer at least a foot away from the curb.

1:31:29Now when they're making these huge piles, are they, they should be. And so we can follow

1:31:33up. And if you see some, a large pile like that, please notify us because we will make

1:31:37sure that we push them away. Even if we can't collect them. Cool. Thanks. One more question.

1:31:40Do we still have free bags that we're handing out? I'd have to, I, I'll have to follow

1:31:46up with all the member gals. I know there was a lot that was last year that were leftover.

1:31:49I don't know the number. So they were stacked up in the parking. Yeah. We distributed across

1:31:53different locations. I don't know how many are left. I think there is still some. I

1:31:56just don't know the number. Like you put them in the lobby of city hall and the rotunda.

1:32:03Any other questions on committee? Yes, ma'am chair. I have a moment, Tyler. Yes. Thank

1:32:09you for, uh, to Bob for bringing up the question about the cameras coming up on winter again.

1:32:16And have we outfitted enough of our trucks so that we can track what we're doing in the winter?

1:32:27Our entire fleet is under camera now. So not only snow vehicles, but every other DPW vehicle

1:32:32as well. So that has been the project that has been going on for two years. So two years ago,

1:32:36we piloted Sam Sarah, which is the, um, software and camera we use. Um, that was all fitted with,

1:32:42um, on our snow vehicles from our plow trucks. And now that it's expanded to every single vehicle.

1:32:47And so why we have done it, not only to see where we are. And so we have an active map as

1:32:52we go into the snow season, which you'll be able to see where you've been. I mean,

1:32:56obviously there's going to be delay because we don't want the folks chasing DPW employees,

1:32:59but there'll be an active map that shows that we've been in that neighborhood where we've been.

1:33:03Also, it has done some efficiencies on our side of if you, if you're a Pac-Man board,

1:33:08that's what we see in the backside of where a truck is. It also helps the driver identify

1:33:12did you miss the street or not. Um, cause what happens, this is when the salt hopper is

1:33:16activated and that means there's an active plowing event going on. So it has been very

1:33:20helpful and not only for operations in snow, but also for all the other things we do within the

1:33:25public right of way. Okay. Have we, um, is it, is it going to be possible that the

1:33:32Alders will be able to monitor their areas or, or is that not going to happen?

1:33:37It would be possible on the map. Correct. And one thing about the map is we're, we're making

1:33:43sure to display it when during an event that it's going to be most useful. Um, for example,

1:33:48if we have an anti icing, you know, because of a light sleet or snow, we're not going to necessarily

1:33:54post the map as it won't be very useful to track it, you know, if it's not a lot of snow accumulation.

1:33:59So that that's the other, uh, part of this that we're going to figure out is those exact

1:34:04type of conditions that warrant the most useful display of that map. Okay. And that's, that's not

1:34:11displayed to the whole public. That's just displayed. It's public facing. So the public will

1:34:15see if it's in, you know, if, if a plow truck has been in your neighborhood or not, you know,

1:34:18there'll be a 30 minute delay, but they'll be able to see, you know, the one thing we do not want

1:34:22to do is put live tracking to see exactly where our folks are just for safety concerns. Yeah,

1:34:27I understand that. And I guess I was just looking at, um, you know, just the Alders being able to,

1:34:33to answer questions, not necessarily to say, Hey, this is where they are, but to say, Oh,

1:34:38when we get those calls, then we don't have to call you guys. I mean, we can keep calling you.

1:34:45Yeah, the active map is going to be helpful because it's something we had not had for

1:34:48years. And so we just started it late last year. And so that'd be very beneficial to the public.

1:34:53Okay. There's actually going to be, um, a regularly scheduled kind of mid November

1:34:59information session, uh, for all Alders and AIDS, uh, that we'll be holding, um,

1:35:04just for all of all of these items above and, um, maybe some more information there about the

1:35:10particular map and, you know, the, the type of events that it'll get used for. So, okay. Thank

1:35:15you. So this is kind of like a catch off file. I would encourage this. Um, I recently had a

1:35:24neighborhood walk and there was, um, a few people from, uh, DPW various department divisions and

1:35:33DNS. Um, and there was some, we walked through some alleys and then one of the alleys, there was

1:35:40brush, like somebody had cut off parts of a tree or something, but it was on the private property

1:35:47and it was dead, of course, cause it was cut. Um, and like a debating suit about like whose

1:35:55responsibility it was, um, to get it. Um, each department felt like it wasn't theirs, um,

1:36:03because of the nature of material and, or because, and, or because of the location, um,

1:36:07other material. Um, that was one debate. It was a hole in the ground that got sent it to you.

1:36:13And a neighbor asked, well, who takes care of this? And your representative from Forest,

1:36:18she was like the property owner right here takes care of the hole in the ground. And I said,

1:36:24I don't think that's true. I will reach out and that's why I sent you the picture or whatever.

1:36:28What I'm saying is I think through, you know, retirement and people leaving and whatever else,

1:36:33we have a staff that's still learning. I would encourage, cause I know a lot of members do walks

1:36:39and those walks involve residents. I would encourage there to be some level of, um,

1:36:47insurance of some level of education on some basic stuff, um, that is likely to come up on

1:36:52neighborhood walks so that we're speaking with one voice because it was confusing for me.

1:36:59And so I know it was extremely confusing for residents hearing stuff from a different angles

1:37:04that it, and even there was, uh, some water. Um, so it looked like a recent rain. The water

1:37:12still hadn't dissipated. It was like, well, whose responsibility is it to, uh, you know,

1:37:17do something about this great. Um, but it was like all four corners were clogged up or whatever.

1:37:22And one of the staff was like, well, it's the person right here for, it was just different

1:37:26people saying different stuff. And I was like, at this point, call the city. We can send somebody

1:37:30to fix this eyes, all four corners, blah, blah, blah. But it is nice when the adjacent person

1:37:36tries to, you know, keep it clean. But at this point, let's just call the city. But I know it

1:37:40was confusing for those residents. So I would just say the staff that you know, get sent out

1:37:45for the walks and stuff, please educate them on some basic stuff as well as, and I've shared this

1:37:51with you, the staff that you send a town hall meetings. Cause when I leave stuff, something

1:37:56totally different was there at my meeting. And it's just, I think it's just confusing messages

1:38:00to the public. No, absolutely. I think it's the folks we send out to the public and they're not

1:38:03going to be subject matter experts in every field, at least not to give an answer. That's, it's wrong

1:38:08or say, Hey, we can get back to your touch base. I think it's appropriate, but we could do better

1:38:12training on the folks that basically are public facing. Absolutely. Thank you. Madam chair,

1:38:18if memory serves, the city is responsible for cleaning the fence lines along the interstate

1:38:24highway system. Is that correct? On our side. Yes. On our side. Correct. And we do that,

1:38:32what, four times a year periodically. Correct. Uh, you might want to focus some attention in

1:38:37the 25th and St. Paul area. There seems to be a considerable collection of debris. Thank you.

1:38:48Has that changed through the years? Cause I know this has always been an issue

1:38:55as well. And I've heard a million different things, but that between the state county and us,

1:39:02that it is the state, but they contract with the county to do something,

1:39:06but they only contract it once a year. And then I think a couple of years ago,

1:39:09I heard the state kind of abandoned it. So it's kind of left to us to do. So yeah,

1:39:15has this transition through the years? Yeah. So the county does take care of sort of on the side,

1:39:20so they represent the state. So they do the work for the state. So the state doesn't have

1:39:23employees that do this. So the county does take care of the basically inside. So basically you're

1:39:29talking about the freeway to the fence. We would take care of the opposite side,

1:39:32basically to our right of way. Um, but the county also does other projects. So if you're

1:39:35under a freeway, the beaches, a good example where it's, it's a long stretch that's under,

1:39:40they take care of that as well. And so a lot of the times we will coordinate a cleanup for the

1:39:44most part, like especially in the spring, which is probably the most important. So you can get

1:39:47both sides at the same time. Uh, so the county still does it. I don't know their frequency.

1:39:51I know they do it a few times more than just once, but it's still active.

1:39:55They also have that adopter highway program, which I think part of it was that whoever's

1:40:01name is on those signs is supposed to clean up so many times a year. And literally in my 18 years,

1:40:07I've seen the group on the sign clean up once. So I wonder if they really even, um,

1:40:13if they really even do it. And then I had groups who were interested, um, in doing it because they

1:40:18do their own cleanups all the time anyway. And so I, I know I, years ago, I had called the state to

1:40:22say, well, can't they just adopt it and keep it? And they said no more. There was at the time,

1:40:27there was no more availability for the adopted highway. And I'm like, who checks to make sure

1:40:31they really, um, clean or whatever. But that's just a sign. But that the side of the highway

1:40:39is a constant issue. Um, are there any other? I'm sure. Um, Brower. Yeah. Just a question

1:40:49about, um, I didn't quite catch, um, when you talked about it earlier, um, um, the pavement

1:40:57sensors, what that's a thing that is mounted into the concrete that's mountain. Okay. Can you

1:41:02explain what that is, please? Yeah. It's a cylinder that's, uh, mounted into the concrete.

1:41:06So it's drilled out and, uh, placed it pretty much fixed in, into the concrete and, uh, it

1:41:11reads surface temperature, um, existing conditions. It also has, it's tied with software that uses

1:41:19temperature, uh, movement to predict future temperatures of the surface, of the ambient

1:41:25temperature, um, and as well as moisture and the new sensors, uh, with, uh, chlorides and salinity.

1:41:32Yeah. And we're also partnered with other communities. So if something's happening to

1:41:35the Northwest or South or fronts are coming in, we can kind of predict that as a whole group.

1:41:39And so we're trying to do is we're using technology so we don't have to put as much

1:41:43salt on the roadway, if not necessary. So if you know, temperatures are going to be above

1:41:4632 degrees, this helps us. We don't have to trigger an operation, obviously savings and

1:41:51environmental reasons. So it's, we're trying to use as much technology as possible to,

1:41:55to basically battle snow. And there, you said we have four of them installed in roadways

1:41:59throughout the city or how many did you say again? We have five installed. Okay. So they're

1:42:02just not on some road somewhere. Okay. They're strategically placed. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

1:42:08No, that's, that's good. I just want to comment that, you know, and I appreciate the fact that

1:42:11we're going to have this, you know, live map. We had that going last year too. Yeah. It was,

1:42:18it was put out for a late storm, a late event in March. It was very much an internal pilot up

1:42:24until then. And yeah, we, we found this year that directly posting and accessing it through

1:42:31the same SARA platform rather than Esri, which is where we initially went with it. It provides

1:42:36more accurate data. So well, that's really good. And I do want to comment that I'm for listening

1:42:41public and you know, that, you know, we, unless we have a massive deployment of staff, I mean,

1:42:48we cannot get every street immediately when there's snow. And I think that's part of the

1:42:53frustration that I see when I have conversations with constituents, you know, about this is,

1:42:59okay, well, why didn't my street get plowed first? And I think that with, with the posting

1:43:03of this, the posting of this map may hopefully help more constituents to realize that we can't

1:43:08have 10,000 people and 10,000 trucks all at once to just clear everything immediately that it's

1:43:13meant to do the arterials first. And then there, and there's, then there's specific routes and,

1:43:17you know, along that route, they'll do one street first and next, and it will be methodical in,

1:43:22in some ways, because we just don't have staff capacity. And I mean, that would be ridiculous.

1:43:26I'm not even suggesting we have that staff capacity, but we would, you know, that's just,

1:43:29it's just something that, you know, that's, I think been, you know, hard for people to,

1:43:33you know, to realize that, you know, we have to do arterials first. I mean, that's a priority,

1:43:37like the, and so a residential street that is a quiet residential street has to be a lower priority

1:43:42because there's not an ambulance or fire trucks or major commercial traffic that's going on there.

1:43:48So that, you know, and, and, I mean, I've seen people come out and say, why isn't DPW

1:43:52plowed my street yet? And then, well, there's, there's tears and it just can't happen all at

1:43:56once. And I know that that's really frustrating for people. And so this could help to educate it,

1:44:01but I think it'll just show, you know, that like it may show the public that we have a methodology,

1:44:07but, you know, it's just, it's just not going to solve the underlying issue of staffing and the

1:44:12fact that we can't do everything. I mean, and the, you know, the other thing that we can't just do

1:44:16everything all at once immediately. Yeah. One thing to that, I mean, each area has a route.

1:44:21And so what we do, we try to rotate those on an annual basis. So not to start in the same street

1:44:25every year. So it's street one always gets plowed first. So like last year, the ones we started in

1:44:30a route would get done first. Now that's going to rotate over. So a different part of that route

1:44:34will get touched first. So we try to on an annual basis cause you can't do it on every single year,

1:44:38but so that's why some people say, well, I was always first and now I'm a little later. But so

1:44:42we try to at least spread that around a little more. And I know operations has done some route

1:44:46efficiency as well. Things we have tried, you know, obviously arterials are the priority because

1:44:50that's where you see the most vehicles from a public safety perspective. We have experimented

1:44:54with doing single cuts just in the residential so they can move around and access those arterials

1:44:58until we come back. So you're right. We're constantly trying to pivot to basically have

1:45:02people to move along the city as quick as possible. No, I know. And it's, and it's a

1:45:05struggle and it's almost impossible to satisfy every concern that's brought. I mean, I know

1:45:09I have constituents and I don't have as many driveways in my district as we do in other

1:45:13districts, but I have constituents that say, wow, I cleared my driveway and then a plow truck came

1:45:17by. And we had this conversation with Kaitlyn at this very table, um, healing genic, uh, last year.

1:45:22And, and, you know, they pointed out, you know, rightly that yes, we could plow in a way that

1:45:26would preserve the driveway access, uh, but it takes 40 to 50% longer than, you know, and so

1:45:34then are we going to sacrifice the broader goal of, Hey, let's get all this much street clear,

1:45:40which, and it sounds like, I mean, it sounds like we could, if we just, you know, but does the

1:45:43public want to wait that long? I mean, I would say if we actually put it to some sort of vote,

1:45:46I'm not suggesting that, but if we, if we took a public perception, they'd want as much

1:45:51lane mile cleared as quickly as possible rather than going slow so that you don't have to

1:45:55reshuffle your driveway later. And then, but then the people who have driveways feel like they're

1:45:59being picked on by the city, you know, and I would say if you have a driveway, you are advantaged in

1:46:03some way. Like, I mean, so there's a privilege point there as well. And we should clear for the

1:46:07people who have to park on the streets and, but that's all a balance. That's just really hard to,

1:46:11you know, get that through to constituents, um, who, when they call our offices are upset that

1:46:16their street is not ready to go when they're ready for work. Yeah. Any other questions, um,

1:46:31for committee hearing, uh, uh, Ottoman bombing would move to hold to the college chair

1:46:39hearing objections. So order. Thank you. Um, on our nine 30 am agenda, we have file number two,

1:46:46six, zero eight, nine, zero motion relating to the recommendations of public works committee

1:46:51relating to licenses. Do we have, uh, Lance Lucas,

1:47:15Lance Lucas, uh, for the licensing department. Are you, uh, have you heard from Mr. Lucas?

1:47:23We have not, Madam Chair.

1:47:24Have we heard from Mr. Lucas, Carmen? Carmen, have we heard from Mr. Lucas?

1:47:29All right. Is this his first non-appearance? Second. Um,

1:47:36move denial. The motion by Ottoman bombing is denial for non-appearance. Are there any

1:47:42objections to that motion? Hearing none. So ordered. Thank you. Without any further business,

1:47:51We are adjourned.