2026-10-14 - Regular Council Meeting

Alright, good evening and welcome to the 5 p.m. Tulsa City Council Meeting. You can view this meeting on our Facebook page, our YouTube channel, Cux channel 24 or at tgovonline.org. Assisting the

council tonight are Jack Blair, City Attorney, Lori Doring, Secretary to the Council and Catherine Ong, council staff. If you wish to speak on an agenda item, please see Catherine to complete a

request to speak card prior to that item being read. You will not be allowed to speak on any item that has already been read. Please join us in pledging allegiance to the flag of our country and

remain standing for a moment of silence. Thank you, you may be seated. Tonight we have a proclamation for the Mobile Integrated Healthcare Week. Councilor, Dr. Wright. Thank you. We have our mobile,

MIH folks here if you want, who's the representative all of you want to come up or chief. Okay, thank you. So Mobile Integrated Healthcare, MIH, whereas Mobile Integrated Healthcare, MIH is a rapidly

growing and innovative model that delivers patient centered care directly to individuals in their homes and communities, health care, accessibility, and improving outcomes across the nation. And

whereas over 40 states have adopted MIH and community paramedic, paramedicin as core components of rural health transformation efforts. And MIH programs now play a vital role in expanding access to

quality affordable health care and strengthening community health in all 50 states. And whereas the Tulsa Fire Department's MIH programs, including TFD CARES and the Overdose Response Team,

demonstrate how MIH reduces unnecessary emergency department use, supports residents with complex needs, and provides proactive services such as health assessments, chronic care management, and follow

up care. And whereas MIH depends on strong partnerships among EMS agencies, health care organizations, and multidisciplinary providers who collaborate to reduce readmissions, improve access, and help

patients manage health conditions effectively. And whereas the National Association of Mobile Integrated Healthcare Providers, NAMIHP, designates the second week of October as MIH Week, and the City

of Tulsa recognizes this observance in honor of MIH professionals and increase awareness of the essential role of MIH that MIH plays in strengthening community health. Now, therefore, we, the mayor of

the City of Tulsa, and the Tulsa City Council, do hereby recognize the week of October 4th through October 10th as Mobile Integrated Healthcare Week in witness thereof. We hereby set our hands on this

14th day of October, 2026. And I just wanted to personally say thank you to this team and all the people that you work with to do mobile integrated health care. If you don't know what that is or you

want to learn more, please Google it. This team, especially Chief Lemery and so many of these leaders you see here, are going around the state and across the country sharing best practices and the

innovations that they've done here in the City of Tulsa. And we're so lucky to have you all doing this work and improving outcomes every day for our citizens. Thank you so much. >> People wishing to

speak on an agenda items are limited to five minutes total per meeting public input is a time for members of the public to provide insight on the agenda item. Due to the meeting format, public input

is not a time for question and answer period. All comments should be relevant to the agenda item and directed to us, the council. We are using an electronic timing system in front of the speakers is a

microphone. There is a timer that will count down the time used. A green light will indicate your time has started. Yellow light will caution you that you have 30 seconds remaining. And then a

blinking red light will be shown when your time has concluded. We are asking that you stay within your time limit so everyone wishing to speak is given equal time. Please keep the podium area railings

and aisles free from recording devices and tripods, recording equipment and accessories, including tripods must be set up in the media center. As posted on tonight's agenda, certain items are subject

to consideration and possible approval, adoption, denial, amendment or revision. Item 10A has been rescheduled. Item 7A has been pulled. 7C, if you have already spoken on this item, you will not be

able to speak again. I call this meeting to order. Please, Lori, call the roll. Here. All right, item one receipt and filing of minutes. One a minutes a special meeting held at 1030 a.m. on September

16th 2026 be minutes of regular meeting held at 4 p.m. on September 16th 2026 see minutes of regular meeting held at 5 p.m. On the same date September 16th of 2026. Do we have any speakers? We have no

speakers. What is there a council discussion move to approve items 1A through C second. Please call the roll. Council Gilbert. Yes. Council Bengal. Yes. Council Dr. Wright. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Items 1A and 1C are approved. Two reappointments and reappointments. 2A, Larissa McNeil reappointment to the Human Rights Commission. B, Michelle Laura reappointment to

the HUD committee development committee. Do we have any speakers? We have three speakers. The first speaker is Mr. John Huffines for items 2A and 2B. Mr. Huffines. Good evening. Thank you. And peace.

Yes. Peace. I'm thankful for our honorable leaders. I'm grateful for the honorable council chair Karen Gilbert. The honorable vice chair co-chair Christian Bingo. Honorable councilors staff team and

security. We're thankful to the citizens of this great city of love Tulsa and this great nation under God the USA. It is a joy to be with you on this 14th day of October in the year of our loving Lord

Jesus Christ 2026. Yes. Appointments and reappointments. Larissa McNeil reappointment to the Human Rights Commission. It's easy to see babies have the human right to be born. I'm glad you all were

born. Appointments and reappointments. B, Michelle Laura reappointment to the HUD community development committee. May we continue to honor our volunteers and employees. Thank you councilors. Mr.

Huffines. Call the next speaker please. The second speaker is Mr. James Alexander on item 2B. Good evening everyone. Councilors. Good evening. Committee people. This appointment to the HUD community

is a bad thing for the city of Tulsa. Especially North Tulsa because this was created for North Tulsa and there has not been any changes. The city has made the change which is not good for North

Tulsa. I know this for sure because if this had been done in other cities people would be up crying to stop it. And that's what I'm going to do here. I'm going to stop it because it's going on too

long. It's time to get real and become the city that leads our city. And we can't do that. We still got prejudice going on. Your next speaker to you Ms. Alexander. The next speaker is Bernice

Alexander on 2B. Thank you. Is there a council discussion. I move to approve items 2A and B. Second. Please call the roll. Council Gilbert. Yes. Council Bengal. Yes. Council Director Wright. Yes.

Council Lakin. Yes. Council Bush. Yes. Council Hall Harper. Yes. Council Archie. Yes. Council Dutton. Yes. Council Bellas. Yes. All right. Items 2A and B are approved. Any of the commissioners here

this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

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commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the environmentalists here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the supervisors here this evening? Any of the

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commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the supervisors here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the environmentalists here this evening? Any of the commissioners here

this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the

commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this evening? Any of the commissioners here this

evening? All right moving on item six ordinances first reading the following items in this section of the agenda will not be read aloud and without objection item 6a through 6a or 6h will be forwarded

to the next council meeting for action. All right seven ordinances second reading 7a has been pulled 7b closing a street as a public way located at 1419 North 67th East Avenue situated between East

Oklahoma Street and East Oklahoma Place. Do we have any speakers? We have one speaker but they previously spoke at the last one. On 7b? Yes. Oh okay all right sorry we can't speak twice on an agenda

item so. I don't think 7b's been on the agenda before. On 7b? Okay sorry Mr. Huffines I don't know what's wrong I mean. It's coming together. It's been a long day. Long day. We're moving forward

right. Sorry 7b was obviously in for first reading the last time we were here so. Okay well I remembered talking about Saints Peter and Paul Catholic Church so I thought maybe I had already spoke. So

here we go. Okay. 7b an ordinance closing a street as a public way requested by Saints Peter and Paul Catholic Church and School to allow Saints Peter Paul Catholic Church and School to make safety

improvements for their campus. At Saints Peter and Paul Church they understand the scriptures are sacred and that Jesus shed his blood for our sins. Yes Catholics are awesome folks promoting the

culture of life. Yes to their proposed ordinance and God almighty we invoke your guidance. Thank you family. Thank you Mr. Huffines sorry for the mishap. Is there a council discussion for 7b? I move

to approve 7b. Second. Thank you. Lori please call the roll. Council Gilbert. Yes. Council Bengal. Yes. Council Dr. Wright. Yes. Council Lakin. Yes. Council Bush. Yes. Council Hall Harper. Yes.

Council Archer. Yes. Council Dutton. Yes. Yes. 7c ordinance adopting a new title 16 Tulsa revised ordinances titled independent review and oversight of public safety creating the office of independent

review and oversight for public safety in the position of director establishing the powers duties responsibilities qualifications and reporting requirements of the office and director providing for

the review and oversight of certain public safety investigations providing for confidentiality of certain information and records creating a civilian oversight board and establishing its membership

qualification terms powers duties meetings and reporting requirements. Do we have any speakers. We have 10 speakers total five in favor and five in opposition. Okay I think the last time we did the

for the the first time so we'll start with the opposition of seven or yeah seven C the first the first speaker in opposition is Mr. Mark Sipe. Hi my name is Mark Sipe and I was told this was going to

be entertaining to introduce you to myself because I know a couple of you I'm retired Tulsa fire department deputy fire chief Mark Sipe I was the fire marshal from 2008 to 2016 and the way that this

current ordinance is written I find so offensive especially the way when you recognize people that you are very directly prohibiting from serving on the community the community board the 11

representatives plus two neither one none of them concerned because they were a public safety officer. So the ordinance the two fallacies with the ordinances that I find we can we can reduce it down

to the office itself creating the office. Mr. Mayor I worked under Bob Dick and Roy Gardner I don't know if you know who those are. Mr. Sipes he's not the mayor I thought I'm just as handsome as he is

though shows how much I know what we did was I told you he's speaking into existence when I retired I swore I'd never come back to this room ever again and here I am you know but no worries I worked

for Roy Gardner and Bob Dick they I worked underneath them we as a community voted to do away with that form of government and what we did was we gave the power to the mayor and the City Council with

the mayor having the bulk of the power. So the mayor therefore when he appointed Miss Roberts I thought oh my gosh we're going back 25 years ago when I was a rookie and working for Roy Gardner and Bob

Dick well their job when you look at their job descriptions when it comes to the review of internal affairs or review of any disciplinary action that was their job. The cool thing about Bob Dick and

Roy Gardner is guess what we as a community elected them they weren't appointed by the governor well now we give the governor that or give the our the mayor we give the mayor that authority to do that

so the need for the ordinance as it sets doesn't doesn't hold water because that's the mayor's job that's what he was given that's what we voted on you know 25 30 was 35 years ago now that's what we

voted on to do second ball the way it's written it's written in such a fact that it's more retribution than it is progressive and to correct and to cure a problem and what I mean by retribution

perfect example is I've watched the meeting for the first time today and what I noticed was everybody was going off of what experts said what Oklahoma City did and how they set their form of

government but when it comes to our citizen board we specifically denied those experts from sitting on a public safety board feel like and couldn't couldn't nominate me to set on that being an expert

because I do have expert knowledge because for those of you who don't know as the fire marshal I was both a Tulsa fireman and a Tulsa police officer so I saw the world from two different veins every

day I came to work but I can't sit on on on on the very board and give back to my community that provided me a life that I would have never thought of coming from the poorest county in Oklahoma if you

think that I would have had the life I had no way you know but the people of this city gave me a life that I can never pay him for but I perfect opportunity for me to repay him for is through this

ordinance but oh no I can't because I don't qualify because I'm being discriminated and punished against for my service to this community and being denied the right to serve on that on that board and

that that's not right and I'm about at the end of the day what's rights right also while I was watching that I felt kind of kind of curious as political parties came up and to show you how this

ordinance is both politically motivated retribution motivated and all that is we all agree something needs to be done but when we start talking political parties in y'alls meetings I as a citizen of

Tulsa find that offensive because I'll tell you why we voted to make sure that your political party wasn't involved up here because if you notice when you run we don't ask you if you're Republican

Democrat independent or not huh because we want what's best for all of Tulsa so we don't ask that and so when it gets brought up that's kind of getting out of bounds and also Councillor Hopper or your

time zone okay thank you thank you all right I'm gonna set some some guide rails up so this is a very very I know that everyone is passionate about this agenda item but I'm gonna ask everybody to hold

off on any clapping after the speakers or any snapping or cheering so just so that we can get through all the speakers and listen to all the speakers so please hold off from any clapping snapping or

cheering thank you very much all right Katherine next speaker please the next speaker to speak in opposition is Kari Soti good evening counselors good evening how are you all good I know because I was

on your committee the whole day I watched the committee from 10 very into the break and then back again and finally I decided to put something together and in the case that I couldn't attend tonight

you can't hear me it's on is it on it's because I'm so tall is that better sorry I have to lean into it so I'm gonna read this I had some thoughts I watched the committee meeting a couple of weeks ago

and then had a chance to watch the committee meeting today and appreciate all the work that you all are doing to review all of this information but what I wanted to make sure was that I I really

support accountability transparency and public trust in our police department and throughout city government however I have certain concerns about the cost timing and structure as well as public

engagement surrounding the proposed ordinance first the proposal differs greatly from what the OIM was in 2019 under that proposal City Council had meaningful involvement in selecting the director the

proposed 2026 ordinance appears to give the mayor consider considerably greater discretion while reducing the council's influence over that selection I didn't increase my font if the purpose of this

office is independent oversight should shouldn't we be equally concerned about ensuring the independence of its leadership second the scope of this ordinance is substantially broader the 2019 proposed

focus was focused on policy or policing the proposal extends to fire now emergency management animal control things it didn't have previously so the 2019 proposal was also associated with an estimated

annual cost of $500,000 and I'll be honest that's the first thing that caught my attention on this this is why I started paying attention to it because I felt like as a citizen have we socialize this

information so about today's committee meeting I watched it I spent a lot of time and before I forget thank you councillor bingle for your service to our country I spent a considerable amount

listening to the discussion and while it was lengthy I believe some very valuable information was shared particularly by our new police chief his comments reinforced my belief that we would benefit

from bringing more voices to the table before moving forward in my experience successful initiatives are built through collaboration bringing together leadership from the affected departments city

council and community stakeholders and working cross-functionally to incorporate their insights could help an oversight program that is thoughtful effective and sustainable that brings me to my

greatest concern which is public engagement an ordinance of this magnitude deserves broader community discussion I question why residents have not heard more opera to have had more opportunities to

participate through public meetings or forums before this reaches a final vote so when citizens feel uninformed about significant changes to their city government it only undermines the very trust

that we have so I want to be clear while I don't support the OIR in its current form that does not mean I oppose the concept of independent oversight I believe there's an opportunity to develop a

better informed proposal by including the people who will be responsible for implementing it and the citizens I respectfully ask the council to allow time for broader community engagement meaningful

departmental input and a complete financial analysis before taking that final action thank you thank you next speaker please next speaker in opposition is Mr. James Alexander good evening again you

know after reading your backup and watching you half the day today I have come to the conclusion it is time to stop playing with people gaslighting and whatever else you want to call it and get real

about what you're doing this is not being real you're playing with us you are playing with us if you don't put something together put it together where it would work this was not gonna work you have

you're gonna put together some people you're gonna give them no they can't have no subpoena pop power they can't do anything but sit there and give opinions that is not working that is working against

the community and it's about time that just stops working against the community is not gonna work out people are waking up this is 2026 1996 is over and the time is over for you to play with us

gaslight us and give us deals that make us look foolish you're making the public look foolish and I'm not going for it I hope everybody that's sitting in this audience is not going for it either thank

you next speaker please next speaker is Jack see right hello thank you this watch today seems like this is really directed towards the police force and it's going to tie their hands some instances for

two years the business owners from the Tulsa downtown area begged for a curfew they finally got it to keep the kids out of downtown that was up to the police department to police them where did they

go they went to 129th and 11th the police have to go again you put these people in a position when you make these laws that they don't need to be in because now you have to come out find out why they

had to use force to load a 13 or 14 year old kid up that's downtown past curfew or if they're at 129th and 11th with the gate open and they met again so at this time when these rules come up it's up

to the police department to enforce it they go by procedures and policies and the deal is if you pull a gun on an officer you're going to get shot that's one thing you need to understand did you go to

the communities and tell them cooperate with the police this won't happen show them your license don't pull a gun did you go on the news and tell them this no that's nothing a man gets broke down his

cars broke down on 169 out here two people stop rob him and cut him now was that on the news no it wasn't on this but you know what when the officers go after those people they know they are armed and

dangerous and they have to make that decision split second this group that you're planning on having they get two weeks to review it all oh well maybe they should have done this should have done that

hindsight is great but you have not gone to the public and said cooperate with the Tulsa police department then you go to Denver what do they do oh they have a committee that's great so now then you

just don't report the crimes or you let them go in and steal everything and leave and put these stores out of business let the police be the police let them take care of business now then you're going

to tie their hands because they're scared to death they're going to go in front of a committee and explain a split decision split second decision i worked in a refinery you got to make them and you go

by procedures and policies you've been trained you've been trained on how to handle these situations and this group that's going to be watching these people have they been trained did they go through

all the policies and procedures you went through some today but there's a lot there that says under these circumstances you cuff them immediately you don't give them leniency they are they're out of

their own will to cause problems we don't want problems in Tulsa Oklahoma we've had enough we've had enough problems solve problems don't cause problems so that's where i'm at you're going to cause

problems when you tie these policemen's hands they're scared to death to make any decisions on their own they're trained to make those decisions on their own you make those decisions two weeks later

oh well maybe you should wait until they pull the gun and pointed it at you we know they carry they've got they've already got a a whole ride out on the computer of who they're stopping so go to the

community put it on the news when you're asked for your driver's license show it to them if you don't have your insurance tell them you don't have it they're going to find out anyway so anyway that's

how i feel about it thank you for listening thank you uh Catherine the last speaker for being opposed uh is Karen O'Brien good evening how are you tonight several of you know well who i am but just a

background i've been a volunteer in the city of Tulsa for more than 23 years i spent 12 years on the sales tax overview committee to us as the as the chairman uh i was on the uh council in 2018 when

was the first time i heard about this bill or this ordinance to come up that was presented in a whole different way than where we are today one of the problems i have with the ordinance today is that

um first as i understand it the committee that is going to be the over you know overall committee is separate from the volunteer committee the overall committee is as i understand it is to be

appointed completely appointed by the mayor anytime that there's any kind of an appointment of the citizens to any government official situation you end up having uh people who have alter your motives

or agendas of their own that they're trying to be able to accomplish by getting into the position they're in the least of which that i consider is it's a star on their resume is having a background in

the government that's not necessarily applicable to any particular process that they're supposed to be looking at going to my experience with stoc uh as i said 12 plus years um i saw many people come

and go uh you now receive a thing like this this big of all of the paperwork of all the departments that present the information of the financial situation that the sales tax covers i have high

suspicions that you very rarely look at it if you do anything with it you probably filter through to the particular department or district that you're involved with don't really notice anything that

anybody else is doing and that's okay i mean i haven't got a problem when i was on the stoc i was locked into my district so i had no problem but that's going to be a limiting factor for anybody that

is going to be on this particular committee that we're looking at we're looking at somebody that's going to look at their district that they were appointed to from by the mayor uh and that goes into

the what kind of people are we looking for are we going to have people that know what they're talking about have any experience at all with the uh departments that they're going to be looking at

today's meeting that i watched and i pity you guys five hours at the meeting i'm so sorry you had to go through that but it was a good meeting but anyway if somebody's you know in the comment was made

if somebody's working with the the um animal department do they care about the fire department you know my opinion is if you care about anything in the city you care about everything in the city so

that's why you guys are on the panel that you're on right now that um let's see where else i wanted to go oh the restricting of the volunteers going into the volunteer committee when you restrict the

volunteers to somebody that doesn't have like the other gentleman stated that they don't have any experience at all with stuff some of the people that have been on the stoc committee didn't even know

where some of the places were that we were talking about like i know that i go around and look at parks and stuff like that i cannot say that is true for all of the rest of the committee they don't

have a clue where the parks are they even though we are work i'm going to use we as if it was current uh have a uh all the documentation that you could want that tells us all the thing about the the

things that we're supposed to be looking at what the budget is supposed to be where the maps are for all of the different buildings parks the zoo everything that the stoc covers people don't look at

it they go to the meeting check off that they were attending and they left some of them didn't even make it for the two years of their term a lot of them like i said just uh my feeling was that they

just did it for their resume excuse me um and then the cost as i understand it i saw something somewhere at one point that it was going to be a four hundred thousand dollar department made up of the

people that the mayor selected i think that's a bit much money looking at it from a budgeting aspect that seems like an awful big thing and i don't know if that was just for the salaries or was that

for everything including the the materials the renting of the space the you know paperwork sorry counselor your time's up thank you but you get the gist thank you any questions thank you very much

thank you all right katherine we'll start with speakers that are for the item first speaker is britney anderson i'm britney anderson and yes i'm in favor of the oversight committee because and here's

why on the night of october 16 2024 sia tulsa coat enforcement officer ryan daugherty did grossly abuse public office by willfully violating protocol and procedure ryan daugherty did recklessly and

maliciously in danger by directing and allowing and permitting tulsa police officers to act under the color of law with total disregard for constitutional civil or human rights to enter locked

property without warrant or consent to threaten with the rest cars and intimidate and harass furthermore ryan daugherty did attempt to commit fraud and extortion by issuing citations to a non-

responsible party in a case according to his own code case history that was closed october 10 2024 for compliance this this was six days before he came to the residence with police officers at night

codeless code enforcement officer ryan daugherty did also following day october 17 2024 issue a set of identical citations to the property owner for violations by his own record showed compliance and

attempt to extort to extort fines from both parties additionally ryan daugherty did attempt to manipulate photo evidence in this case by submitting numerous photos with either no time stamp or time

stamps were cut off from the photos and there's also i have another example why i'm also for this i look at the admiral flea market there are vendors who have set out there for many years and a lot of

code enforcement officers they're always changing the rules they've made a lot of vendors get permits two and three permits just to set out there and then they said that a lot of the customers were

parking on city easement so people and they also said that the people who parked behind the sheds they owned the easement all the way up to the sheds and they parked there for years and they made

everybody move to the parking lot and then after that they said they weren't parking the right way and it was illegal and a lot of customers were paying 250 to get their cars back off tow trucks and

it's constantly been changing they've been really i consider this situation like a car trying to run you over and they didn't get the job done so they put in reverse and try it again so that's been

going like that for like now three years and it's gone gotten to the point they're pretty much the flea market that is on life support it's really a lot of the vendors have left and there's nothing

really around that a lot of businesses closed and there's nothing but really drug dealers prostitutes and yeah it's gotten worse and i think there should be an oversight committee especially for code

enforcement and so there won't be an abuse of power like that just run and ramp it thank you thank you katherine please call the next speaker the next speaker is julie sky good evening hello i'm julie

sky very glad to see you all so 2016 was a very busy year mayor bartlett one of his last things he did as he left was created compassionate tulsa which i'm a founding member on and for the last 11

years we have amazing work that we've done. The equality indicators were also coming to the surface. Many of you may remember Smart Growth Tulsa and I was on that initiative. Some of the smartest

people in Tulsa were on policy and were on that. So one of our policy initiatives was around community policing. And because of my interest, all souls, Unitarian, Social Justice, Criminal Justice, I

have a long, I have a 25 year history on this committee along with other kinds of congregations that are more progressive that will tackle this. But this is what we came up with on our committee, that

caliber self assessment of community policing tool. We wanted the COT City of Tulsa to adopt that. We wanted to implement 10 principles of community policing. We wanted leadership implementation plan.

We wanted to deliver racial bias training. We wanted to implement a community selection process for the police chief. That was the end of Chief Jordan's years and those were challenging years as many

of my colleagues here remember my involvement with that issue. We wanted to commit to Tulsa participation and the U.S. Department of Justice presidential 21st century community policing program. And

that's a program that's very near and dear to my heart. So in the midst of that, we have a new mayor and Mayor Bynum appointed me to the community policing task force. So I sat on that and attended it

for three months and worked under these presidents task force on the 21st century policing. We presented what became the dashboard and very proud of that work. Well, fast forward during that time, the

department independent monitor was also being discussed and it had teeth, it had subpoena power, it had the ability to do some real, real work. Fast forward to I don't you didn't put my image up,

please. Is it possible? Fast forward to 2019 and we have the human rights watch who had spent three years doing a report. And if you can see this, it's get on the ground 916 2016. What you see is a

man in a white T shirt with his arms up as Terence Crutcher. So this is an investigation that they came to Tulsa to look at what was going on around policing. And I'm going to read just a couple of

short comments. So Tulsa police force violence. Tulsa police use physical force on black people 2.7 times more frequently than they do on white people. They use pepper spray 3.6 times more frequently.

Tasers 2.9 times. Dog bites 2.1 times. Disparities in the use of force exist even when comparing to the numbers of people arrested instead of the overall population. Per arrest, police use force on

black people 18% more frequently than on white people. Underlying arrest numbers show strong racial disparities. Of the 3,364 district non deadly force actions by the Tulsa police officers from 2012

through 2017. The department found only two to be out of policy and neither resulted in disciplinary action. According to the different data source, they found five out of policy in that time frame,

imposing discipline only once. So we can fast forward. Very pleased to see who we have on deck as our police chief. This is not about this fine man. This is not about the history he has, about the

work that he's done. This is about not expecting one man to uphold everything that happens within his division. So this is not about questioning the quality of the police. It's not about their

reputation. It's about when they don't get it right, how's justice done? I'm very happy to see the progress we've made in 10 years as we've gone through the initial police chiefs that we've seen. I'm

happy that we're entering a new phase. >> Ms. Skye, sorry. Your time's up. Thank you. >> Very happy to present this. >> Thank you. All right. Cat, no clapping. Thank you. All right. Catherine, next

speaker please. >> The next speaker is Jamie Rodriguez. >> Good evening. Hi, I'm Jaime Rodriguez, first time speaker, long time citizen. I'm very much in favor of an oversight committee for this

because when it comes to violence and who gets hurt and about what, there's always damages involved and when it comes to damages, there's always risk. And with risk, that's something that can always

be assessed, reviewed, and just always analyzed in any way. I mean, that's why we have insurance companies. Thus, we have regulatory agencies, like, for example, you know, with the FAA, whenever it

was deregulated during this presidential administration, we've seen more airplane crashes and knowing how to, like, you know, ground so many airplanes, which is already causing millions of dollars and

losses for so many people. And the same thing does apply to police and to how people engage in terms of defending themselves and also protecting others. And that just doesn't just go between people,

that also affects emergencies as well. And that's in having a body of people involved where they could ease, where they could look over all of the possibilities, determine the risk and basically just

give feedback on that to better improve the lives of the city in terms of response and just reaction, whatever comes next. I mean, a plane lane, that's what it all is about. I mean, even if you look

at just purely economic, because we're talking about millions, hundreds of millions of dollars in losses that could easily be mitigated and prevented. And even then, we also already have other

regulatory agencies and oversight committees, like the FAA, or even with terms of manufacturing facilities, refining oils, they all have people involved that are there to assess the damage, see what

happened. And, you know, put out a nuanced demand, you know, a nuanced, just sorry, nuanced paper, basically, of what went wrong and how to fix it for later, how to prevent it. Police should be

accounted for the same, especially because, you know, our station or our police are all bachelor's degrees. That's a requirement. I feel like at the very least, if you have a bachelor's degree, you

should at least be very well engaged and be able to understand what nuance is. And I thank you. That's all I have for now. Thank you so much. All right. Next speaker, please. Next speaker is Bernice

Alexander evening. This is a subject that's really near and dear to me because it deals with the background that I'm trained in. I'm concerned about the police and their activities in the city,

especially toward young people. I know about police assaults on young people that was not necessary. I'm going to write you all a letter this time about this, because this is very serious. Young

people and people in general, but I know about the young people, are being harmed by some of the tactics of police officers that are not necessary. I don't know how you're going to train this group of

people that are supposed to have oversight to have the police treat the people in the community. But I know that there are some officers out there that have some serious issues, particularly with

young people. And I'm very concerned about what it is that you all want this group to accomplish. I believe the group is probably being developed, created because of their actions, the actions of the

police department. My area of training is police corrections and criminal justice. I have some sense of how those positions work or should work. I know a police officer, eight police officers, that

beat a young man, snatched his earrings out of his ear. Didn't know nothing about the young man. He never had any trouble with the police. I couldn't understand why these eight police officers beat

that young man, snatched his earrings out of his ear because he asked him a question. And it was a really peculiar situation because the young man was in the South Tulsa area with his friend who was

white. The young man was black and they were walking home from the store off of 61st and Memorial. They noticed eight cops on the opposite side of the street being rough with two young ladies. One was

black, one was white. This young man couldn't understand why the police were treating those two young ladies like that. They were teenagers. And he asked the question to the police along the side of

the street that he was on, the eight. And they darn near beat him to death, snatched his earrings out of his ear and took him to jail. He had never been in any trouble before in his life, a high

school student. I don't understand that type of behavior. I'm wondering what kind of training whoever these people are going to be on this committee receive about how to treat people. The young man

was only asking questions and he was walking from the store with his white friend. And when they started beating him, his white friend ran to our home. And the white friend said that these officers

said that this young man didn't live in that area because he was black. And they put the young man in a paddy wagon when his friend ran for help and drove off because I went looking for him. I went to

confront those officers. We don't need that. What kind of behavior is that for a police officer to attack a 17 year old kid who asked him a question? Eight cops and I know about a whole lot more

because I've been working with a neighborhood association which has been established since 1991. It's registered with the state of Oklahoma, the 2100 North of Warsaw Block Club and Adjacent Neighbors

Neighborhood Association. We've had a lot of complaints and we've had a lot of people in the community that have observed this type of behavior. Ms. Alexander, your time is up. From police officer.

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Alexander. Okay, I want to be clear on my question. Okay, your time is up. Thank you. Thank you. I need you to sit down. Your time is up. Thank you so much. Catherine, who's

the next speaker? The final speaker is Emily Del Grasso. Good evening, counselors. Good evening. It's great to see you once again. I'm Emily and I'm a very proud resident of District 3. I'm here

tonight strictly in my personal capacity. Both myself and my husband are public servants ourselves. Although I cannot pretend to understand entirely the work and experience of all public servants, I

am wholly grateful for public servants and their work and understand that public servants are necessary for the well-being and functioning of our community. I'll keep it brief. I don't need my whole

time tonight. I'm in favor of establishing an office of independent review and oversight of public safety and I'm strongly in support of establishing a civilian oversight board. No matter the

importance of the role or the work, oversight and investigation of oneself is a clear conflict of interest. I, as well as multiple folks I love, have personally experienced multiple harmful failures

of the previously described robust multi-layered oversight systems already in place and feel these have been inadequate to date. I'll spare you the details of my many examples as it's been a long day

for y'all, but I'd be happy to discuss any of these at any point if you're interested to know more. I'm not alone in this experience. According to the Tulsa City Auditor's Evaluate the 918 survey this

year, only 33 percent of constituents agree that the city has effective oversight to prevent waste, fraud, and misuse. That's a large gap to close. This is not about retribution. I feel that

additional transparency into city operations, as well as a deepened mechanism to engage with these operations, are important benefits for all constituents. I feel that establishing this office and

board would increase confidence in city officials, functions, and operations. Thank you for your consideration on this topic and this issue. Thank you very much. That was the final speaker for this

evening. Is there a council discussion? I move to approve. Councillor Dutton asked to speak. That's fine. I mean, I know we have a motion on the table. So, in a second. So, but this is council

discussion time. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. So, I want to read a letter from a constituent that could not be here this evening. Councillor Dutton, hope this email finds you well. The letter is actually

from Nate Morris. While I will, let me. Did he speak the last time? He spoke the last time. Oh, did he? Okay. Also, to that, I appreciate that. Thank you. That he is supports and that he would just

appreciate if council would do the right thing. And so, I just wanted to make a couple of comments also. The cost of lawsuits coming out to 47 million pales in comparison to the $500,000 it's going to

cost to set up a situation. I think it was quoted 52 years. It's what it would take to spend that much money on independent oversight review. That 500,000 pales in comparison. I also want to address

the public safety umbrella. This isn't just about TPD or any single entity. It's the umbrella that consists of Tulsa Fire Department, Code Enforcement, Tulsa Police Department, Tulsa Animal Services,

because they all work in tandem together. I know Tulsa Police gets called out when there are at least dogs that bite individuals. Investigations have got to occur and be had. So, I wanted to clarify

that. Also, I wanted to clarify about experts in the being on the 11 person panel. Community members are experts in their own right. And community members also experience things from a different lens

outside of enforcement departments. And so, I just wanted to clarify that even though they may not be with Tulsa Animal Services or Code Enforcement or Tulsa Fire Department or the Tulsa Police

Department. Community members are still members of the community and contributing members of the community and they also need to be heard and at the table. We've got so many entities at the table

already except community members. And so, I just wanted to clarify that. And I also want to indicate that this isn't anti Tulsa Animal Services. This isn't anti TFD or TPD. This is really about a

collaborative effort to have communications and to have discussions and have everybody involved, the taxpayers that pay the salaries of these individuals need to be included in conversations as well.

So, that's the only comments I have. Thank you. Any other council discussion? Councillor. Well, I wasn't the first one to raise my hand. All right, very good. So, yes, appreciate everyone that came

out and spoke. This is a time of decision. And I appreciate each one of you that have come out and spoken either for or against the goal of any sort of policy needs to be trust and transparency. But

for any policy to be effective, the people involved in the policy making or who will be affected by the policy have to trust in the process. I am, well, I mean, many of you have watched the meetings

the last few weeks. We brought the department heads to the table who would be directly affected by this decision. I was concerned that not one of them or each one of them as they came forward sort of

described some of the challenges that they saw with it. A personal note would be, so outside of this, I own a small candy company and we spent, I basically lived at the fairgrounds for about 10 days

or 11 days. It was pretty awesome. But lots of TPD officers were there and I spoke to them. I said, this is something that is being proposed. Can you give me some feedback on it? What do you think

about it? And many of them did not know that this was being communicated about. And some said, well, are the folks on the committee going to have to do the academy? Because you need to understand what

we experience when we are making these decisions. Or today, Mark Hogan talks to us about we don't actually provide him any administrative staff. And so who's the staff that's going to do the reporting

that we have in the ordinance? So when we think about, we were on a call just earlier, myself and the chief and fire chief and some of us on this panel with Oklahoma City, because they have a model

for oversight. And I was struck by, because I asked them, I said, did you get pushback from your law enforcement officials? And they said, no, not really. And of course, when one city is presenting to

another city, maybe you exaggerate a little bit. But their process that they went through, there was buy-in from both sides, which it's clear that there is not that buy-in from both sides currently.

Emily DeGrosso mentioned the evaluate the 918. And I actually, each counselor received a custom copy of the results of that survey in their own district. My district, I had 516 people who expressed

their opinion about evaluating the 918. And when it comes to police response and community safety presence, my community ranks 7.2 points higher than the average Tolsan in trusting our law enforcement

officers. I say that just to say, I've been getting a lot of feedback from my residents saying, we support our law enforcement officers. Will you do the same thing? I don't view oversight or the

desire for oversight. However, as anti-police or as anti-code enforcement or as anti... And at the same time, when you receive overwhelming feedback from the people who will be directly affected, that

they do perceive it as negative. I have to think through, are we going, have we done enough to communicate with all sides? Like there's some of you who came up here earlier and talked about code

enforcement. And I thought, man, if you read the ordinance, like some of these complaints that you're talking about would not even rise to the level of that investigation. And so I'm concerned that

there may be an expectation that even if this is passed, that some of you may think that there are things that are going to be investigated or policy changes that are going to be made that aren't

written in the actual ordinance. So I do think as Carrie Satie, oh, she's left. Carrie Satie talks about socializing this a little bit. Also, in addition to this, in this ordinance, it would establish

a director. The director would be the one responsible for receiving and reviewing the investigations. The board of the individuals, 10 or 11, would be responsible for overseeing the director. And so

it's not that this board will be receiving or reviewing the investigations. It is a, I think there's some folks that expect, you know, I don't, you know, I think there may be some miscommunication as

to what this is and what it is not. And part of that, it could be related to the timing of this. And I am very interested in Oklahoma City's model. Oklahoma City's model has individuals selected by

council district, that they are the ones that actually do the reviewing, as opposed to hiring another individual. Today in the committee, Commissioner Roberts expressed, along with Councillor Gilbert,

I won't speak for you, but expressed the desire to pursue what some sort of cab could look like, shaped in the model of Oklahoma City, as opposed to a director with a board over the director. Also,

you know, another thing, okay, so I'm kind of rambling. Another thing is, I think if I'm gonna ask the police and fire and all the rest to be accountable, I have to ask myself, how am I holding myself

accountable? Are there powers that are given to me as a city councilor, that I'm not utilizing to get information to my constituents? We talk about subpoena power or the ability to call for executive

sessions. I am interested in exploring both of those things. I, lastly, when we open up the discussion, there was a motion to vote on this. It was not to table it for further discussion, but it was

to, you know, Councillor Decter-Wright wants to, you know, have an up or down vote on this. You know, I would have preferred to continue it on to bring Councillor Gilbert and Commissioner Roberts into

a discussion, along with our police chief. I want the fingerprints of our law enforcement officers and our department heads on whatever sort of policy we pass, because they have to be able to trust

that it's going to be fair to them as well. Now, and now here's, I'll also say this, what we learned from Oklahoma City, I asked the lady, the director of the lady, my apologies, I asked the director,

I said, when you all evaluate these use of force or community complaints, they give, they give three levels of response. They can either agree with the decision that the officers made, they can agree

with it, but also give a note, you know, you need to consider this policy. Yes, it was in policy, but, or they can disagree. They said in the years that they've been having, you know, had this

oversight model, 95% of the time that board has come back and said, we agree with the decision of the officers. And so what I'm learning from Oklahoma City is if you set up a policy that has the buy-

in of both the community and law enforcement, we could potentially demonstrate that our police or our city security fire, etc., are making needed changes. They are, you know, this is not the police

department of the 90s, even though there are some settlements that are, that are coming that are not from the 90s. I just think this is a good start. I think that we need to continue to work on it.

And I'm not somebody that kicks the can down the road. I know this has been an iterative process, but, and you made the motion to vote on it out. Would you consider a tabling to continue to work on

it? What do you, what do you say? I'm not interested in that. Let's just vote, and then you all can do the next iteration of this work. I mean, I put a motion. We've got a second. We've talked it to

death for 10 years. Okay, hold off, hold off. I do want to say, thank you. I do want to say thank you to everyone who came out today to speak again, and to those of you who spoke before, who are here

again, and again, and again, and again. I've only been doing this for eight years. Some of y'all have been doing it a lot longer, and it's regrettable that it looks like you'll have to continue to

come and push. I do want to reiterate, there's many pathways to the destination. We're talking a lot about Oklahoma City, and I do appreciate that Councilor Gilbert connected us with what they're

doing down there. As we start to look at that, my understanding is they do have a professional, they don't call it a director, they call it an administrator, but it's not someone that's just putting

together agendas. It's somebody that's a professional that has a staff. They're talking about staffing up more, so don't take our word for what Oklahoma City is doing. Go and look at it yourselves is

what I'm going to say there. I don't agree with not having a professional support. You know, we had sales tax overview here, and nobody says it's controversial. You don't trust the auditor, you don't

trust the finance director, you don't trust treasury to keep account of all of these tax dollars. It's a slap in the face that you put citizens on a sales tax overview committee to look at these

things, and nobody has ever argued that point, because it's just good sense. To Council O'Brien's point, we do get robust reports from that overview committee that are volunteers, that represent

council districts that may have a councilor lens, a council district lens, may have a certain project lens. I doubt Council O'Brien knows about, knew about water use and engineering and trash and all

the things, but when you sit on that sales tax overview committee, you learn a lot, and a lot of people that serve on the council came through the sales tax overview committee. And I say all that to

say, I do agree that citizens bring a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for your service, sir. This is not to exclude you or anyone else, it's to verify for the whole public that it would be truly

independent, unbiased. There could be a fire marshal who has served three counties away that lives in Tulsa that could serve. So it can be experts, it just can't be people that were so close to it,

that sometimes it is hard to see the force from the trees, and it's not. My approach to this work has never been to condemn or vilify anyone. We get a lot of zero sum game arguments in this. You know,

you are very passionate about like, people should just follow the rules. There's a lot of people that follow the rules and still get hurt. And that's just the facts. So I just do want to uplift that

sometimes people don't make a good decision on both sides. Some people made the decision they were trained to do and upon review, it's like, hey, we got to look at that again. And as Councilor Archie

said, and as we've learned, most of the time, it's confirmation that everything's being done to the highest and best, and the best training, the best policies. And I do believe, and you saw today, we

just did mobile integrated health and celebrated the work they're doing. We have really great public servants in this city. And when they make mistakes, the citizens deserve to know that that was

looked at, that it was reviewed, and that the review went the way it was supposed to, the policies are the way they're supposed to be. And that's all that this proposal is. And I understand from all

10 of you who spoke today, I don't think one of you actually got it right, what we're proposing, which tells me, even though it's written out, you know, and we've talked for it for 10 years about the

idea, and for the last three weeks about this idea, there's still misinformation. So that's regrettable. But I know the people up here know what we've proposed, because we just heard our newest

Councilor reiterate that it would be a citizen review board, a citizen oversight board of the Office of Review. The citizens are reviewing processes, procedures, policies, community input. It's a

professional office, not unlike we do for our finances. We have an auditor, we have controllers, we have all manner of financial experts at the city of Tulsa that your taxpayers pay. But then we also

have the Sales Tax Overview Committee, with two seats from each district and mayoral seats. And without controversy that I can see. I've never heard anyone go like, Oh, get rid of that committee. It's

a waste of time. Mr. Ashley is already gone. But the amount of time and Councilor O'Brien's here, the amount of time those people put in, and they become experts as they learn and grow and, you know,

address issues that come up. Who knew that a statue built and stored in Florida would be the thing that we get updates on, but they've had to learn about it. And then they share it with us. And you

all learn about it too. And then it's our job to be accountable to solve that problem, to figure out how this advisory board who keeps looking at it reports to us and how we fix the problem. So I put

a motion on the floor and we've got a second. And we're still in council discussion, but it's not to say that, I mean, I've done this a long time, Councilor, and it was very clear to me earlier today

that you would not be with us. So I'd rather just get this out there and do the vote. And then we can all hold ourselves accountable for coming back and trying again. Or as I wanted to say, there's

many pathways to the outcome. Ordinance is one way. Charter amendment is another way. Charter amendment with the council agreeing to put it on the ballot for you all to vote on is one way to do it.

The other way is for you all to collect signatures and put it on a ballot too. I hope if you choose to do that, you will look at what our city attorney has actually crafted so that it is sound

legislation. Sometimes when citizens get passionate about things, then we have to correct things in the court of law. And then, you know, as legislators up here, I'd like for us to do our job, but if

we can't do it, y'all could do it for us. And if you all want to come back after researching this 10 more years, then we'll still be here talking about it, I guess. But what's loud and clear is that

something has to be different than what it's been. And I also do want to say for every officer who's come before you all and said no, or I didn't know, I was to speak for myself. There are uniformed

officers who would be subject to this overview that want it. They've told me with their own voice, stay on it. We stay on it. We need it. So they're afraid. I don't pretend to know all the reasons

why. And I'm talking about animal services. I'm talking about 911. I read my own constituents voice into the record on that. TBD, TFD, the emergency management office is one guy we just heard today.

So, you know, but because our mayor made the decision to spend your dollars to stand up our own office and that is providing us with, you know, emergency response, it makes sense to put them in under

that. So I just I did want to give that other side of the voice. I appreciate all of our city employees. I know you have to make hard decisions every day. You're held to high standards and scrutiny.

And I appreciate that. It is not easy to commit to this work. You certainly can make probably more money in the private sector, less scrutiny and oversight and people on social media saying all manner

of things. So it is a calling and people sign up to do that for their life. And it is important. And I don't think I have come to this table. And I'm sure Councillor Hall-Harper would agree with a

proposal that doesn't take that very seriously. We take that very seriously. I also take the citizens of Tulsa seriously. And we've got to do something different. I cannot sit in any more executive

sessions and learn of the things that I do and continue to not try to do something different. Thank you. All right, Councillor Bellas. And then I have Councillor Bush, Lakin and Councillor Hall-

Harper. You needed to speak again? Okay. I'm going to put you in the queue. Well, just indirectly to what, Councillor. I was going to respond to you still, so we just go in order. Hold on. Hold on,

Councillor. Councillor Bellas. Oh, fair about you, right. Yeah, I just wanted to, you know, Councillor Archie brought up about thinking about who would be most proximal to this policy and a lot about,

hey, and thinking about who this directly impacts. And I did want to reframe that it impacts over 400,000 people because it's every person who lives in the city of Tulsa. And part of how I come to

that framing, and I don't always like to do kind of that qualitative storytelling, but I think this is relevant. You know, I've been part of this policy work for over 10 years now. And what first

brought me to it was that I was a junior high teacher who had students that were often justice involved and who were absolutely petrified of approaching the police for anything. And I didn't want that

to be the circumstance. And I know that in order to build authentic community trust, it takes layers of very intentional transparency. It takes iterative quality improvement and so much more. And that

takes really intentional staffing. And when we think more broadly about our public safety apparatus, our 911 emergency response, and so much more, which I hear concerns from constituents regularly

about, hey, did that happen the way it's supposed to? And as Councillor Dr. Wright said, a lot of the time when we go and check into things more, things did occur the way it was supposed to. It might

have just felt like a long wait or that maybe something wasn't done to policy. And oftentimes it turns out that things were done to policy, to code, et cetera. And sometimes then we revisit and go,

oh, that policy should potentially be different. Policymaking is an iterative process and working through this certainly has been. But I want to circle back to, so this is something that the people

who are affected most proximately are not just those public safety officials. It is every person in our city who at various points in life engages with elements of a public safety apparatus. And one

key difference though, when it comes to being kind of your civilian citizen versus someone who's entrusted with public safety, especially those that are, you know, cleat certified law enforcement

officers, is that those folks, and this is also different than us elected officials, are sanctioned to carry out lethal force within the scope of their work. That is an intensive responsibility and I

know no one takes that on lightly. And that is also something that when it comes to building trust, anything we can do as a city to ensure that there is better authentic oversight, quality

improvement, data collection and reporting, policy review and work, is absolutely, I believe, critical to set up the infrastructure for. And when we look at our data and outcomes, it's easy for people

to go, hey, this is an emotional topic. There are people here who have direct experience with losing family members. And I know that that is, you know, those stories that are very powerful in our real

lived experiences that are just as meaningful as quantitative data. And the quantitative data also shows time and again from not doing some higher level work like this, that we are justice indicators

from the equality indicators. Those have gotten worse over time. We heard earlier today from Terrence Crutcher Foundation about how outsized and disproportionate our use of force is and the

disparities there as well compared to peer cities. You know, I work in public health separately and some of the best practices to help reduce maternal mortality that have come to light in recent years

are about shared decision making between a doctor and a patient where the idea is, hey, the doctor is an absolute expert in medicine. They have studied. They are carrying out that practice every day

and have knowledge that, of course, a patient does not have, hasn't gone to school to have, doesn't carry that out as a career. And at the same time, though, just as valuable of an information set in

a medical setting is that patients lived experience and that they're an expert in their own life. And there's been intentional work done in medical settings to go, how do we level set these two

expertises to help save lives and have better outcomes for people? What we're discussing doing here is yielding that same dynamic for those that we entrust our lives with in similar circumstances

where people's lives are at stake. And that's mutually. I know that our law enforcement and public safety apparatus faces situations where their lives are at stake as well. This is about how do we

help level set that power imbalance and ensure that we can build authentic trust and transparency for people. And if we don't have a formal structure to do that, there's nothing that sustains it

happening. It could be subject to a leadership change. All right. Thank you. So, Councillor Archie, you still have the floor. Yes, thank you. So I appreciate the words of Councillor Bellis and

Councillor Dector-Wright. And I don't disagree with the fact that there are folks on all sides that are directly affected. I taught at Monroe. I taught middle school there. And we had students and

families that were impacted by the law. And so there has to be trust that's earned on all sides of this discussion. And what I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. What I'm saying is, as I am learning

about other models that are around the country, there are other models like Oklahoma City, where they have built that trust with law enforcement and department heads and with community together. And

it is clear from our discussions for the last few weeks and my discussions with the chief and the department heads that that trust is not it's not mutual as of yet. We had the committee discussion

today. And it was because we talked about the lawsuits and the settlements. And there are, you know, there are likely more that are coming. But we even admitted in the session today that you cannot

draw a straight line between an oh, I am or a overview office being instituted and lower settlements. You have to be careful. Counselor, that right. You said we have to be very careful about

promising. And if we pass this, it's gonna be lower settlements. You can't necessarily guarantee that I pressed the chief on some of the settlements that we've that we've made were from actions

decades ago. And so what like if we want lower settlements, we have to think what are the actions that we're doing today that in 10 years or 20 years may result in those settlements? And is this

individual who would come in capable of identifying those those trends? Or are people who have been in the in the seat of power, you know, in the in law enforcement here locally, better able to do

that? Or our residents, like in Oklahoma City, they they actually have the residents from each individual district. They are the ones that are making those recommendations hearing from the experts.

And yes, I'm not against having a staff professional to lead to lead that work. My preference would be the residents who are representative of those communities exercising the oversight as opposed to

a gentleman or an individual from maybe another city or another state coming into Tulsa and having to, you know, an independent director would have to also build trust with the community as well. And

so there's policies and then there's people, you can have a policy. But if you don't trust the people that are in the policy, that are like carrying out the policy, it doesn't matter if you have the

policy. And so we have to we have to have great policies and then we have to put good people in those seats to enact the policies. And it just takes that trust. And I think there are there's a there

are there's a modification that could be made to what we have currently. And like also, I don't know if this proposal puts it under is this under the mayor's leadership now or have we put it under the

auditors? Right. And so we have had conversations with the auditor that it's this if we were to pass this proposal, it probably better if we had the auditor manage it as opposed to having Monroe to

execute it to make it more independent. There's just some there's some technical policy discussions that are that still need to be had about this. And well, well, okay. So some people are saying we've

had those and we have I press Councillor Lakin today in our four hour and 47 minute meeting. I said, I know it because he gave me a little thing today that said that said it. I said, Councillor Lakin,

you wrote this bill 10 years ago with some people that are here. You supported it then why don't you support it now? And he went through the ways in which the policy 10 years ago is a is different

than it is today. It's not the same one. And so not to say that, you know, it couldn't be better or that today's version is not better. It's it's okay. Either one is what it is. What I'm saying is as

I look at the policy, there are some modifications that I would like to see in it that today in the meeting, our public safety director, Laura Roberts and Karen Gilbert, our chair, said that they were

amenable to. And so let's have those conversations. Councillor Bush and then Councillor Lakin. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I want to point out some things that we've all heard the

last couple weeks as we've had the different department heads that would be subjected to this or fall under this. They all said basically the same thing. They already have such a level of

accountability and reporting that they have to do. And they've listed it, enumerated it, represented represented. Sorry, I just elevated your case. Senator Lakin made a list. I mean, I'm sitting here

looking at it as every time they mentioned this, each one of them said this was just one more layer that they're not sure that they have the administrative staff to help them, which means it takes

them away from actually doing their jobs. Now let's jump forward to today. There was something that Commissioner Roberts said that was very telling to me. So all of these people have these different

reporting mechanisms in place and they're siloed. In other words, they're not talking. So yes, we honor the CRTs, the ARTs and all the things. Everybody thinks that we have these coordinated services

when in actuality the reporting goes up in silos and they're not talking to each other. So we're not sure where there's duplications, where there's gaps or whatever, because the state of Tulsa is

sorely behind on technology, not just in public safety, by the way. This permeates all the way down to permitting, planning, the whole nine yards. There are technologies out there that would actually

bring the city of Tulsa into the 21st century. If we could actually use the money to go do that, that would actually help us make decisions better and faster. Right now we have departments that use

Excel spreadsheets and manually write down the data. Help me understand how we're going to have another layer of people look at handwritten data. It's just crazy to me. Maybe a better use of the

500,000 or whatever this is going to cost is technology so that we could actually do our jobs. I too spent a great deal of time with our new police chief. I've known and worked with him for 21 years

now. I think it's very exciting. He has some really good ideas. We're on week two. He's literally been here 14 days and has already made several changes. We listen to our animal services folks who

have been making substantial changes to our animal services and continue to make those and continue to share that data with Commissioner Roberts. She is meeting with all of those folks on a weekly

basis talking about, "Hey, what do you all need? What's working? What's not working?" We have so many mechanisms in place. I think it's super important that we give them time to actually figure out a

mechanism that is going to work. Another thing that has been said, and I agree, people elected us. We switched our form of government in 1989 to this so that the citizens could have a greater voice.

If we have, Councilor Archie, thank you for bringing that up. Maybe there are things that we should be doing that we're not. We rubber stamp things a lot of times. Are we really doing deep dives? When

we compare ourselves to other cities that are working, I want to point out they all have a different form of government than we do. That makes a big difference when it comes to governance and policy.

I think there's a bigger discussion here that we need to have, and that is about our form of government. If we really want to help Tulsa be more accountable, more transparent, and grow forward, I

think this is one arm of that or one leg of that stool. I think there's a greater discussion that needs to happen, or this just becomes another committee. Thank you. Councilor Lakin and then Councilor

Hall-Harper. >> Yeah, two representative and Councilor Busch's comments. I have been just reminding myself of the conversations that we had with the chiefs or the directors of the various departments

that would be under this ordinance, and I know many of you all listen to them talk. Not all of you were able to listen in on all the committee meetings, but some of you heard Chief Baker say that they

are now overseen by the mayor, the public safety commissioner, the councilor, the auditor, the office of the medical director, HR finance, IT, ISO, and the FPA standards, collective bargaining, STOC

legal, and then I just wrote and a whole bunch of other things, because I didn't catch it all. Their investigators are wearing bodycams, emergency management today, Oklahoma Emergency Association,

Homeland Security, FEMA, EPA, DEQ, Department of Ag, and so many others. Same kind of oversight for their affairs, and I asked all the same question, you know, do you think that these things that are

being considered in this new ordinance are going to be additive, subtractive, and a whole bunch of other things, and not one of them were enthusiastic toward having just another layer on top of them,

at least from my standpoint. That's how I interpreted it when I asked if this was helpful, hurtful, burdensome, additive, subtractive, redundant, or useful. Some were very direct in saying no to most

of those questions. So I have put on the table the opportunity for us to create another standing committee. Right now we have one that looks so over urban and economic development, public works, and

the budget. Those are standing committees. Every single Wednesday we're going to have two of those committees just about every single Wednesday. Sometimes we have budget. What I'm proposing and what

others have proposed as well is that we add to that a public safety committee. Some of us call it a public safety working group, where we have dedicated time every single quarter to talk to the chiefs

or directors of these same entities that we're talking about today. That would give us the opportunity to do what Councillor Bush has just been talking about, which is our job and interacting with

those individuals on a regular basis. Right now we're interacting with them on an ad hoc basis. We can do better. And then Councillor Gilbert and the Commissioner Roberts have both talked

independently about a future civilian oversight committee. Councillor Archie has put that on the table several times tonight. But the difference between what we saw in 2019 and 2026 is there's a

contrast in that, especially as it relates to the group that would actually select the director or help in the selection of the director. And there's other models out there. So I don't know if that

will go forward or not, but that could be an outcome as well. I'm very focused in on the public safety standing committee as an element and as a product of these discussions. Thank you. Councillor

Hall Harper. Thank you, Chair. I know, like you said, we had almost a five hour committee meeting today. And if you add last week, it's even more than that. And so I don't want to reiterate everything

that was said, but I'll say again, we continue to approach this or see this, in my opinion, and at least in my view, from two different positions or aspects. Government is government. So yes, all of

those organizations, OSBI, FBI, all of those entities that you said, no one is saying that they don't have a purpose. So they're not doing what they need to do. They need to continue to do that. So

continue to work in that space. Do those things on that side. This work that we're talking about is for the community. And we are never going to have department heads within government that's going to

say, okay, yeah, we agree to Councillor Dr. Wright's point. There are employees that are lower on the totem pole that are saying, yes, we need this. But the department heads, I think, is maybe because

they're leaders. They are never going to say, oh, well, this makes sense because we really do truly want the community to have trust in us. They're going to assume that, hey, this is what we're doing.

Either you're on board with it or not. Either you like it or you don't. And that's been the approach. At least for 10 years that I've been working on this, we keep moving the goalposts constantly all

in an effort to get to the no. That's all we've ever done on this issue. I will say that, hey, everyone, please be respectful. Be respectful. Thank you. Be respectful, please. Thank you. Even if we

are to pass this ordinance, there is still a lot of work to do. You can't tell me, and I've read plenty of them, you can't tell me one city that have instituted this, that over the years have not made

modifications or changes to it. But they got it started. Then you work on perfecting it, as much as you can be perfected. But we won't even do that. And that's sad. This is for the people. It has been

said earlier, most of the situations, yes, 95 percent, hey, it may even be more than that. That after it's looked into, that everyone agrees, certainly law enforcement and this side is going to agree,

yes, we made the right decision. That's what we hear all the time, right? Even in executive sessions. We come out of those executive sessions with questions, and they don't get answered. But then we

come out to the public and act like everything is great. And we know better than that. We all know better than that. The lawsuits that we've had to pay out tells us that. And so at what point are we

going to get something in place and then we can work on it, to make it tougher, to address the issues and the concerns. But again, this is getting so -- it's just wearisome. To continue to have these

conversations, to acknowledge, to have the facts, the data, the numbers, everything, and we still keep throwing up these excuses. They're just excuses. This is for the community side. This is for --

we talked about the quality indicators. The only theme of all the themes in the quality indicator report that continues to decrease that is get worse is the justice theme. And we continue -- we

continue to have these conversations. We continue to kick out these reports and do nothing -- and do nothing about what really matters in improving or increasing that trust of the community. This work

is not for law enforcement to continue to say, hey, we're doing a -- we're doing a great job, and so you just need to trust us that we're going to do a great job. We want to be able to stand up and

say, yes, we believe that TPD is doing an awesome job across the board, but we know that not to be the case. We know it not to be the case, and we still won't do a -- what I consider to be a minimal

step in getting us closer to where the community and the people can say, yes, this is what's needed. Yes, we're going to work collaboratively to get to where we need to be when it comes to this work,

building trust, oversight. We have so many examples throughout government that has that. But when it comes to this issue, then we just won't do it, and we want to say, well, it's not political. It is.

Everything -- we're in government. We're in city hall, so everything in here is political. I appreciate that we have nonpartisan elections, but it's still political, and that's unfortunate. But that's

a reality, and just because we say it's not, don't make it so. And so I will reiterate, this is work -- this is a first step. We still have so much work to do if we are to pass this. It's not written

in blood. It's not written in stone. We can make modifications. What are we doing, considering to do with the ordinance, the curfew ordinance? We're getting ready to change it, right? We're making a

modification. Wasn't that on the agenda? Or am I just looking? Okay. So we're making a change. What makes you think we won't be able to make a change on this one? When the situation and when the facts

determine that the change needs to be made? There's still work to do. And you're talking about forming another committee. We are part-time counselors. We are part-time counselors. We are not full-

time. We have -- most of us up here have jobs. We don't have the capacity to do that. That's why we and other communities have hired smaller people. You want to increase all nine of our salaries? And

when we proposed that so that it could be even closer to a livable wage that would give us more time in the office to do this work, two people made a decision that all we're going to increase it was

to $32,000. We wanted to put it on the ballot to increase our salary so that we can do the work that the community clearly thinks we should be doing. But we didn't do that. And so now, I know I got at

least three jobs to be able to continue to work in this seat and to work for my community that I love and feel so passionately about. But I bet you any amount of money, everybody up here, if all you

was making -- you got other sources of income and you have to, $32,000 is just not enough to raise our families on. >> 15 an hour, that's what we make. >> $15 -- we don't have the capacity to do it.

So how do we do it? We have other boards, organizations, staff, a professional director that can come in and do this work on our behalf. And we engage with them during the time, which is mostly on

Wednesdays. Some of us come in throughout the week. But we don't have the time or the capacity to do what you're asking us to do. Well, you're not asking us to do it. The people that don't want this

is asking, well, that's your job. When we don't have the time or the capacity to do it. But then -- but that's -- you got to understand from a historical perspective in this country, that's

intentional. That's why only historically, who can engage in participating government in this country? White men with land. That is the history -- because I'm a history teacher. Because I'm a history

teacher. You obviously haven't read a book. History bears that out. And it still is apropos today. I didn't interrupt you when you was talking. >> Enough. >> There you have it. He must be a member of

the -- so that's just a reality. And we are still reeling from that aspect of it. We really are. Because we don't have the time. And so when we figure or try to come up with an alternative to still

meet the needs of the community, then we have all these other excuses that we put up. >> Okay. Are you -- So, again, my final point, I just want to say that when we do this, there is still and forever

be more work to do on a project and an ordinance and a process like this. Once we do it, we just don't walk away. And that's it. We still got to stay engaged. But at least we need, at a minimum, a

strong ordinance and a strong department in which to do this. We can start departments on anything else. When it comes to this, we all of a sudden are broke and on welfare as a city. But when other

opportunities and when other topics and when other projects come up, then we make a way out of no way. The citizens deserve this. And, again, this is for the citizens side of it. Not the governments.

>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I know that this is a very passionate item for a lot of people, but I'm going to ask you again to please be respectful, no comments while especially councilors are

speaking. Please. Councillor Dutton. >> Thank you. I just have a couple things to say. So there was conversation about 10 years ago, this not being the same that it was 10 years ago. I don't know

anybody who's 10 years old and it's the same at 20. I don't know anybody that's 30, that's the same at 40. So I think we need to put this in perspective that 10 years, 10 years ago, this was centered

around TPD. Today it's centered around public safety and it entails all kinds of entities. This isn't just about TPD. And I want to make that distinction clear even though some of the entities maybe

feel that they are being as transparent as possible, like Tulsa Fire Department, they don't have Tulsa Fire Department investigating Tulsa Fire Department. And so anyway, so we got listed all the

numerous entities that investigate, including HR. And so I wanted to bring that up. And then I also wanted to talk about not every case is going to be investigated. I think there's this misconception

going forward that all of these issues are going to suddenly arise and we're going to be putting all this energy, time and energy to millions and millions of cases when that is not true. And I think

we need to distinguish that difference as well. I also want to insinuate this, that public safety is safety for everyone. That includes Tulsa Animal Services. That includes Tulsa Fire Department and

first responders and citizens. We cannot leave our community and our citizens out of this equation. Without the citizens, nobody has a paycheck. And so we really need to understand that public safety

is for everyone, that this isn't parsing out specific departments. And I really, the efforts that have been extended for the last 10 years and the amount of people that have died is heartbreaking. I

have a list of individuals and we can't put a price on a life. And that includes police officer lives. This isn't just civilian lives, this is police officer lives. This is Tulsa Fire Department lives

that get lost in fires. And so I don't know that I will be here in 10 years because I'm old. And I would hope that we as a council would just do the right thing. I don't know what's so offensive about

transparency and community involvement in review. Thank you. >> All right. I have some comments that I made. So I'm going to be very short with this. Councillor Dichter-Ride, I appreciate all the hard

work that you did 10 years ago. I wasn't here at that time but whenever you worked on it. So I appreciate all the work that you did previously. But I believe that an issue of this magnitude deserves

more time more discussion and a much deeper understanding of the potential impacts of our public safety departments. This is not about opposing accountability or transparency. Those are important

responsibilities of local government. It is about making sure that whatever we put in place is effective thoughtfully developed and built on collaboration. Rather than just rushing a proposal through

before we had an opportunity to do due diligence. I'm speaking. Our responsibility is to get this right. Not simply to put to get it done. Public safety is too important to our residents our first

responders and our city to move forward without the thoughtful deliberation this decision requires. So with that Laurie will you please call the roll since we have a motion and a second. Councillor

Gilber. No. Councillor Bengal. No. Councillor Dr. Wright. Yes. Councillor Lagan. No. Councillor Bush. No. Yes. Councillor Archie. Alopstain. Councillor Dutton. Yes. Councillor Bellis. Yes. Okay. So

here we go. You might need time. The motion failed. So all right. Moving on. Item number eight. Additional items counselors announcements and reports on current community events. We still have a

meeting. We still have a meeting. Thank you. And reports on current community events activities efforts and concerns other than announcements and reports no decision will ensue. Anybody have. Yes.

Councillor. This is domestic violence awareness month and I wanted to announce that an observance of domestic violence awareness month which if you didn't know Tulsa is one of the first to the worst

when it comes to domestic violence. We have three town halls scheduled in partnership with the Tulsa City Council the case family safety center our law enforcement partners and domestic violence

intervention services the first one is on Monday October 19th at 6 p.m. at Union High School in Grand Hall and that is co-sponsored by counselors Archie myself Lakin and Bush then on Tuesday October

20th at 6 p.m. at Hannah Hall with El Centro districts five and six counselors bangle and chair Gilbert will be co-hosting a similar panel discussion with community and then the final one will be

Thursday October 29th at Centennial Center and Veterans Park with counselors from districts 1 3 & 4 counselors Hall Harper Dutton and ballast so on this we can agree that we'd like to lower domestic

violence in the city of Tulsa and that we need to work with community members and law enforcement to do it I hope you'll come out domestic violence is not a women's issue and too often in our

community it's the women that are carrying the weight of doing this work so if you are a woman or a person who has experienced domestic violence please reach out for services and get resources will

have an opportunity where you can like have a resource fair if you know someone who needs these services please pick them up and bring them to them and we'll hear about initiatives in the community

that are that government at every level state federal partners even our tribal partners and of course here in the city of Tulsa that we're doing to lower the incidence of domestic violence in our

community thank you just to reiterate an event that was mentioned earlier to everyone on October 27th the parks department's hosting a dream keepers park open house at Centennial Center on 6th Street

across from the VFW as well again that's on October 27th it's from 6 to 8 p.m. it's come and go this is Tulsa Parks the architecture firm TSW and the greater Tulsa area Indian Affairs Commission are

sharing their plans asking for community feedback this is a part of a federal matching grant a lot of city resources going towards this as well district specific improve our Tulsa dollars it's a

really big overhaul of the park wanting to make sure that it can be a cultural destination for Native Americans and all of the tribes whose land we're on and there's some really phenomenal plans

definitely want people's impact want to make sure it's accessible and meets different community needs so again it's come and go October 27th Centennial Center 6 to 8 thank you anybody else

announcements council Archie all good all right okay the police chief is having a transparency talk on Monday from six to seven at Tulsa Tech limley campus to talk about some transparency that he is

proposing in the department so he would not give us any clue of what he was proposing he was very it's going to be yeah again that date is Monday the 19th from six to seven at Tulsa Tech limley campus

they're on memorial so counselor sorry yep yeah actually I think is going to talk about his first topic is going to be about some of the IT issues they have the technology that they're using yes tag

read or plot cameras and others other issues like that yep okay all right be resolution of the city of Tulsa Oklahoma urging the secretary of the Air Force to select the 138th fighter wing in Tulsa

Oklahoma as the home of the next Air National Guard F 35 a squadron do we have any speakers we have no speakers council discussion move for approval second all right Laurie please call the role yes

yes yes yes okay item 8b is a I'm sorry yeah 8b is approved next item AC registration donation from the Koretz family foundation in the amount of seven hundred ninety nine dollars for Councillor Hall-

Harper to attend the Aspen ideas economy conference on October 13th through the 15th in Tulsa, Oklahoma Do we have any speakers? There are no speakers sir council discussion. I move to approve item 8c

second Please call the roll. Councillor Gilbert. Yes Yes, sir. Dr. Ray. Yes Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Bush. Yes, sir. Archie. Yes. Yes, sir. Dutton. Yes Yes. All right item 8c is approved Okay, item 8d

transportation donation from Williams companies in the estimated amount of 1993 dollars and 33 cents for Councillor Gilbert's trip That preceded our inner city visit to Kansas City. Do we have any

speakers on this item? We have no speakers Is there any council discussion? I have a question. So this trip was a pre-planning trip two months ago But it's on our agenda today Do we know why it's

taking so long for it to come to us for accepting a donation from Williams? Oh, I was gonna say council assumes our council administration full transparency I'm gonna start asking some more questions

and use all of our authority to dig into some of these things that we just Rubber-stamp on a regular basis. Hello, Sarah Davis council administrator. Um, ideally it is To get on before but we did not

know of the trip in time for a council meeting And then it took some time to get some estimates on the donation to get an estimate on what the cost of the donation was Correct. And these estimates are

based on like there was a road trip or a flight light Okay, as I understand it was a private flight. Is that not true? Correct. Okay so if the way private flights go is there a cost involved or we

just assign like the Market rate in the retail space yet. The backup material has the documentation on how we got that estimate. So We look at the market rate for the type of plane. We believed it was

and put that market value on there Okay. Thank you. Any other council discussion move to approve item 8d Second Lori, please call the roll council bengal. Yes No, sir. Lakin. Absolutely. Yes, sir.

Bush. Yes Yes Yes, okay item 8d is approved chair All right a new business. There are no items this week hearing of appeals. It has been rescheduled 11 hearing of public comments. This concludes the

televised portion of our meeting popular weekend destination for Tulsa families during the oil boom This man-made body of water was part of a private recreation area complete with boat rides a dance

pavilion and even a small zoo Though the amusements are long gone The lake remains a serene reminder of a bygone era as Tulsa expanded the demand for multi-unit housing group in 1918 Samuel Augusta