2026-11-09 - Board of Commissioners

Another number two. Is everybody ready? We're good. We're good. >> Good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's meeting. I want to thank everybody who has joined us in person and all those who have

joined us online. I'd like to call the meeting to order. And if you could please rise and join me for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Elizabeth, can you call the role, please? >> Mayor Harker here. Mayor Pro

Tim Gillican >> here. >> Commissioner Spiegler >> here. >> Commissioner Matthews >> here. >> Commissioner Cooper >> here. >> Commissioner Le Picolo >> here. >> We've got a request to change the agenda

just a little bit. Number four on items of consent, the Bow Coast phase 4 construction access agreement. I'd like to move that under new business to be number two. And with that change in mind, if

there's any further questions, can I get a motion to approve the agenda? >> So move. >> Got a motion on the floor. All in favor say I. >> I. >> All oppose have the same right. Thank you. >> Now, this

is the part that I really, really like. Uh we get an opportunity to recognize members who have provided great service to the town of Bowford. and serving on our volunteer boards really allows for the

town of Buffer to move in a direction in which our residents love to see it go. Now, we're recognizing today Mr. uh Ron Dupi and Doug Williams for their service on the Park and Recreation Advisory

Board. Our community has grown stronger for your commitment uh not just to the parks but in our community as a whole. your time, your talent that you've put into serving on the board has not gone

unnoticed and we would like to recognize that and honor you. So, on behalf of the board of commissioners and myself and the residents, I would like to offer you a certificate of our appreciation. I

would like for both of you to come up and all the commissioners. It's always a big picture day for us. of appreciation for your dedication and service to the town of appreciation for your dedicated

service to the town of citizens. Park >> [applause] >> Thank you so much. [clears throat] Now, we're going to move on to the items of consent. We have three of them now. First one is the meeting

minutes from October the 12th regular meeting and October the 26th work session. We have the RCCP phase 3 grant. This is a resolution supporting approximately $275,000 of Bowford Shoreline Management

Plan. Uh there's no match to that. We want to thank the Coastal Federation for helping us move that needle forward and we wish them great success in achieving that goal. We have the NC DOT integrated

mobility division grant. Uh this is a resolution supporting a feasibility study for the town creeks trestlew walk. This will help advance our green space uh initiatives that the town has been working

on for many years. If awarded, a local match will be up to $16,000. Um with those three items on the items of consent, can I get a motion to approve? >> So moved. >> All in favor say I. >> All right.

and all oppose have the same right. Now we're going to move on to our public hearing. This is for case number 26-25. This is chapter 151, flood damage prevention ordinance amendment. And just to

remind the commissioners, I will be asking to open up the floor for public hearing. We'll be hearing the presentation from staff first. We'll be asking staff any questions they may have. Once we are

through, I will open up the floor for the public to make their comments on this case. and then I'll close it out and then we can deliberate from that point on. Clear? All right. So, can I get a motion

to uh open the floor for public hearing? So, move. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Okay. So, we have Mr. Jeremy Gayy who is going to present on this topic. >> Good evening, Mayor, members [clears

throat] of the board. Tonight, we're here to consider the amendments to our standalone flood damage prevention ordinance, chapter 151. As you know, these updates are part of our ongoing work to keep

the flood damage prevention ordinance in compliance with the NFIP requirements and to prepare our community for updated flood insurance rate maps that have become effective on February 5th, 2027. I

want to acknowledge upfront that as a board, you have a significant amount of way weight tonight. On one hand, you're listening closely to the local feedback and the unique needs of our community. On

the other hand, the NFIP has outlined that non-compliance will lead to program suspension which directly impacts the 900 plus local policy holders who rely on this program for their flood insurance

coverage. Balancing these local acts interest with the realities of federal compliance is no easy task for you at all. We recognize the weight of this decision before you. Because this language has

already been viewed extensively by our planning board, steering committee, uh, random citizens, and staff, I won't take up your time with a presentation tonight. I am simply here as a resource and a

technical for technical support and procedural questions that you may have as you deliberate and work towards a decision. With that, I'll open the floor. >> Thank you. Uh, do we have any questions for

Mr. Gay? Commissioner, >> um, I would like to ask a question just so that the public can hear the answer to it. When you say a standalone ordinance, can you clarify what that means? >> Standalone

means it is separate from any zoning ordinance that we have. It is a standalone. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any further questions, Commissioner Matthew? >> Just a clarification, Mayor. So I have questions

but I can hold those questions till after the public hearing. We still will have the opportunity to ask staff questions. Correct. >> You can it'll be you can >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> I'll

do the same. >> Same. >> Okay. All righty. So um we're going to open the floor for the public to hear um what they have to say first and then you may have to come back up and answer some questions

based on some of the feedback the commissioners get. Fair enough. >> Thank you. All right. So, I'm now going to open the floor for the general public. If you want to make any comments or have any

questions about the case number 26-25, please raise your hand. Mr. Oliver. >> Hello friends. My name is Bucky Oliver and I live at 2401 Front Street more or less in Bowford. I'm very much in favor of

doing what we're required to do for 160D. And on this topic, I recommend that the flood damage amendment be considered solely for those items that are required by 160D. There are a number of questions

that I've heard from various factions and and u I want to limit my comment tonight though to speak solely on behalf of the less wealthy and perhaps more uninformed um the generational owners that that

we all have strived to represent. there perhaps a thousand parcels uh in the 100redyear flood plane and I'm guessing that perhaps uh 60% roughly are nonconforming and I don't think anybody that I've

been able to hear or hear from has been able to answer the details of the questions that would happens concerning rebuilding or expanding or modifying homes um that that would be affected in those

areas. One of our best friends, for instance, is Anne Carter, who lives in a home that I think is probably non-conforming. And it's I think in the hundred-year floodplane area that we're talking

about, [clears throat] and frankly, I don't want to lose Anne Carter. I don't think this community wants to lose an Carter. But I think unless we back off and drop this down to the items that are

strictly required by 160D that we'll lose not only an Carter but we'll lose her family. Period. I don't want to lose an Thank you again as always. >> Thank you, Mr. Oliver. Do we have anyone else who

wish to make a comment about this [clears throat] particular case? All right, seeing that there is none, can I get a motion to co-lose the floor to public hearing? >> So moved. >> Got a motion on the

floor. All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Thank you. >> Now it's time for the board to go ahead and do its deliberations. We have spoken about this and now it's time to come to a decision. you'll have

some options in which you could move forward with this. Um, some of those options are in your packet as to how you wish to act upon this. Now, Jeremy's back at the podium. Does anybody have any

further questions? >> So, with the 160D and this proposal, this amendment, um, the down zone does not fall into play. Is that correct? >> That is correct. I believe legal opinion. You provided legal

opinion. Is that correct, council? >> Uh, yes, sir. Commissioner, it's my legal opinion that the downzoning prohibition does not apply to this ordinance or this set of amendments. >> So, if a so with

that, if an individual uh got caught up in the flood and or not even that decide to rebuild their house, they would have to form to whatever we vote on today or today. >> Yes, sir. For future damage.

Yes, sir. >> I just want to clarify that. I guess Ari, um, you believe that that's the case for the optional or just the required items that are required by the state? >> Um, I believe that's the case

for all the amendments. Um, you know, the analysis in my opinion is is fairly straightforward. I think the downzoning prohibition um based on its language applies only to zoning regulations and only

only zoning map amendments. Um when you couple that uh those provisions with the statutory definitions found in 160D, I think it's very clear that we are talking about down zoning and not other

development regulations including the flood damage prevention ordinance. Um the very good question about the mandatory versus the discretionary changes. Um, if we were challenged on the mandatory

changes, it's a pretty good defense to say the state is requiring us to do this. Um, how can the state uh make illegal on one hand something that the state is forcing us to do on the other hand? >>

Um, it's not a perfect defense. I don't think it's your primary defense, but I I think it's a very good line of argument if you are confronted with this in court. That argument doesn't work quite as

well with the discretionary changes because the state's not making us, you know, do anything. Um, so if you adopt discretionary changes, I don't think that argument is anywhere near as strong. You

still have all the other arguments, but uh that argument could be compromised in in court. So, would it increase the risk of a successful uh downzoning challenge? Uh perhaps, but but not by a lot in

my opinion. >> Yeah. The concern for me there seemed to be some option some items in there that to me felt as if they were a downzoning clause. Um, one of them specifically was the RV uh clause with

not allowing the use of the RV in that uh zone. And to me that seemed to be uh it seemed to kind of touch on downzoning for that particular item. So there definitely were certain items that um that

appear to be a little concerning. There also some wording and so forth within 151 that I thought we could improve upon as well. Now, I know we had talked about at some of the meetings that there were

some uh discrepancies between the green and the blue and that there was a mismatch um with what was presented and what was required by the state and then what was um just considered optional. Is that

if you can speak to that as well? >> Yes. So, the state model ordinance their mandatory I believe was green and the optional was blue and we flipped that inadvertently in ours and we didn't catch it

till later on. So, Yeah. And to me it would be nice to have a clean copy of that for the public to see and to view and to understand. Um so that's another another item I was uh concerned about. Um but

also I do feel that you know moving towards required versus optional um to me seems to be the cleanest uh way to do this. um you know trying to um get us into the crosshairs of of downzoning I think

in this climate can be really tricky and we could move forward in the years if the political climate changes with moving forward towards other items if that allows. Um, but to me in this state right

now, I'm I'm moving more towards trying to understand um parts of this that may be considered downzoning and parts of this that um you know could be inter I guess it could be interpreted as down

zoning. Yeah. >> And and clearly if the downzoning prohibition did apply >> and I do not think it does, there would be numerous problems with these amendments because they create nonconformities. They

change allowable uses. They further restrict the use of land. There's no question about that. Some of the mandatory changes do that and some of the discretionary changes do that. Um, but again, I'm of

the opinion that that downzoning prohibition just does not apply to this set of amendments, whether mandatory or discretionary. >> I just want to follow up on that comment. Um, Eric, I appreciate you

[clears throat] uh sending the email this morning to the commissioners explaining that. Um, I was also in a meeting with the school of government last week and heard the same thing that the flood

ordinances, they're not zoning. So the downzoning law does not apply. So I've heard that from multiple places throughout the state. Like you said, you never know what's going to happen, but this one

seems pretty clear with the guidance that we've been given. So >> Commissioner Matthews, >> um actually, yes, I have questions both ways. I'll stay here with with Ary and and thank you Arie for those

for those comments. um in in looking at the adoption um of mandatory and potentially some of the the um optional requirements. What I'm hearing you say is you don't you don't see a difference at all

if if there was a challenge and we were adopting what was basically required by federal law in order to be a member or to participate in the National Flood Insurance Program. um you don't feel like

you're on more sound ground from a defense standpoint um [snorts] with that position versus the position that we adopted those discretionary requirements as well. You you feel the same about both? >>

My my legal analysis is the same and whether it's discretionary or or mandatory. I think my point is if you are arguing against down zoning in a court, you're going to throw every argument you have uh

at at the judge and the other side. And one of those arguments is um the state is making us do this, right? We are required to do this and that only works for the mandatory uh changes. So if you also

adopt discretionary changes, you lose uh or weaken one of several arguments. So um yes, that changes the analysis a little bit whether it's a mandatory or discretionary change or amendment, but um I'm

still firmly convinced that the fundamental starting place, the downzoning statute does not apply at all. that's that's where we would be successful if there was a challenge whether it's mandatory or

discretionary. So, but I can't sit here and tell you that um you know there's no difference in the risk or you know no difference in the arguments if you mix discretionary and mandatory together.

There there certainly is. I think it's a a small difference and a small risk but yes sir it is there. >> Okay. Um, and while I'm with you, uh, and this this I discussed when I when I met with, um,

with staff, uh, as well, um, the we're adopting the FEMA technical bulletin and technical fact sheet and therefore will be used as an adopted ordinance. I had always thought that there were issues in

adopting a bulletin or technical advice that's being offered by an agency um for discretionary purposes. I mean you can you can use those to give guidance. You can use those uh to guide the

development that would be coming forward to Bowford. Um but I had always understood that there were issues in adopting it uh as a rule. Can you comment on that? Uh >> yes sir. Um there are generally

those types of issues and the concept is whether the board of commissioners is delegating its legislative and rulemaking authority to some third party such as a state or federal agency. Um that does

not apply in the 160D uh context. However, there's specific statutory authorization that we can incorporate um the rules, regulations, guidance, um etc. of other um governmental agencies, state and

federal alike. Um that said, it still poses a problem to adopt future changes to the technical bulletin. So the way I would interpret the amendment before you is we are adopting the particular

technical bulletin as as it is drafted today. So if it changes in the future, we would need to change our ordinance again or we would just have to go with with the prior version. And um that's based

on the same general theory of delegating your authority, but it's also based on the the plain text of 160D. It doesn't provide for incorporating future changes to things that you can incorporate. So,

and I believe Jeremy, I'm correct, that that language is is mandatory. It was >> I think that that is the technical bulletins is optional, >> but I mean the language in the actual ordinance or was

that optional? >> The for the technical bulletins that's optional. >> Okay. So, >> it's it's optional and and thank you for those comments. If there is a change in the in the technical bulletin or

guidance which we could we could adopt this tonight and tomorrow it can be changed because it doesn't have to go through any type of administrative process to adopt it by FEMA because it's just

guidance. I mean they they could have a a group of technical folks that are working on it and could change it tomorrow. Um, and that's for me that's part of the the problem is keeping up with changes

that we may want to adopt as those changes are made um versus having something that was adopted by FEMA and then we are adopting that. It's a whole lot easier to follow a rule that's going to be

adopted or a law that's going to be adopted uh as a part of the process of changes being made to it. But in this particular case, it it could be changed very quickly. >> That's correct. And it's it's

interesting that FEMA's pretty clear that the technical bulletins, I think they use the phrase, do not have the force of law, right? I mean, they are very much guidelines and guidance, but then you

turn around with these model ordinance and this the suggestion is locally make them have the force of law. So, you know, there's >> although it is optional, >> it is optional, but um you know that

that's definitely a contradiction. >> And a lot of that too, if I may add, is uh the technical bulletins are based off the American Society of Civil Engineers document 24, which is where they get most

of their substance from, which is overlaid with the building code. Building code relies on that. So, there's a lot of overlap between the two. So I mean one one option I don't know how you feel about

it is to say you know because I know for it to be legal and to be defensible is the technical bulletins have to you know you have to be a specific technical bulletin one as dated 2010 is there I don't

know about the legal ease to it if there you can say as uh something to the effect technical bulletins current technical bulletins or something to that effect >> so that That way it's almost like an

auto adoption sort of thing. So when the technical bulletins get updated, they're auto adopted and that we're using the current technical bulletins that's available. >> You you you certainly can do

that and you do see it in some contexts. For instance, with the flood maps, I mean that's basically what we're doing and we have done for some time. It's it's less clear that we would have the legal

authority to alo um adopt you know other technical guidance. So I think the safest course of action is to adopt what's there today >> and if it's changed significantly or when there are a number of

changes that together are significant over time, we'll just have to amend that ordinance to bring in the new new guidance in the future. How often are are these things amended? >> Not very often. >>

That was my impression also. It's pretty much a static document. >> Yes, pretty much static. uh they may change them every once in a while if some earthshattering engineering practice comes available

and they revise uh the ASCE 24 manual, but it's very slim to none that it's going to happen anytime soon. Are you are you aware of um any other ordinances where they reference the technical bulletins

as guidance, but there are other technical established standards that could be used to achieve compliance with the particular regulation? >> Believe there are a few out west. >> Okay. >> I don't know

the specific communities, but I remember when I was out that way in Bunkham County that they were some had adopted those. So which which would allow a developer to use either this if in that

particular case they could use either um this guidance or the guidance uh that's established that they can alternate you know an alternate use for that for that guidance and achieve the same

compliance. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. Um couple of additional questions. If if um if we adopted just the minimum requirements, all the language that was used to achieve uh the

current class that we're in the what is it? Seven uh seven >> six I'm sorry that all of that has been brought over. Therefore, the 15% um that we're eligible for or the policy holders are eligible for

would continue even if we just adopted the minimum. Is that correct? >> That's correct, sir. we would we would remain at a class 7. >> Okay. And the and the maximum uh that a policy holder can gain

through the national flood insurance program is is for 250,000 on the building and 100,000 on contents. Correct. >> Correctly. >> Yeah. um the 400 points, the 16 currently when I asked um you told me

we were at 1616 points and in order to move to the class six, we're at seven now, right? >> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. But to move to class six, then we would need roughly 400 points >> roughly, >> which

we would gain by adopting the um the um the requirements that are not mandatory. That's correct. >> But you also mentioned, which was interesting to me, that um there are other areas where we have the

potential of gaining points outside of what's being proposed in the guidance, such as um cleaning out of storm >> storm water ditches. >> Storm water ditches. Yes. Yes. Would that have to would

something like that have to be identified in the ordinance to gain credit for it or could it be just done administratively and the documentation be submitted to FEMA to uh to gain those points? >>

Based upon my research, it is there's an SOP that's that's you know built by somebody either public works or you know administrative staff and it doesn't seem like it has to be adopted by anybody.

It's just standard. We keep record of it and then when we're asked for it during our cycle visit then we prevent we provide that information to them. Yes sir. >> So actually we could start doing that

tomorrow and submit in and gain potentially enough points. I realize it would be up to the agency to make that decision but we could gain enough points that we would um actually drop to class 7 and

potentially then have a 20% discount. >> Six. >> Six. I'm sorry. Six. Going in the wrong direction. six and have a 20% discount. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Um just as a part of my I know I'm gonna

take a little while, but just as a part of my comments, um I strongly encourage that any of the administrative types of activities that we could do that's reasonable within the staffing limits that we

currently have, but that we seek out those and implement those to bring down the class or yes, bring down the class. I got it right that time and and increase the percentage eligibility. I mean, I see

I see absolutely no reason why we would not do that. >> And this is currently being done by our >> It's being done, but not documented. >> That's correct. That's That's an easy That's an easy pickup

then. It sounds like to me. >> Um let's see a couple others. the and this one's the one probably that that gives me the most pause with the with the optional and that is where substantial damage

instead of being uh by each event as it is now and that's the minimum that's required for adoption. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. that we would move uh to a cumulative amount over five years to

achieve that 50% and that's from that's from any damage that's that's damaged not only from flooding but from wind from fire whatever the event might be. >> That's correct. >> Correct. Um, so if you

had a if you had a 45% or 40% damage from an event and repaired your home under the existing standards, which you would be allowed to do, and certainly that's going to be less expensive, and then all

of a sudden a storm comes through or something and only damages by a relatively small amount. If you had 40% and then had 10%. then you then you have to meet all of the requirements the new

requirements because you're you're now non-conforming and have achieved that 50%. Is that correct? >> That's correct. Now, one thing we like to throw in is that we oftent times request the homeowner

who's doing the repairs if it's we've seen if it's going to be a substantial improvement, we request an elevation certificate just to get the baseline conditions because they may or may not be non-

compliant. even though they may appear non-compliant, we don't want somebody to have to add flood vents, elevate their structure, or anything without without knowing, >> you know, we want to be able

to give them the best available advice that we can. >> Thank you. And the damage, the 50% damage that you're talking about, um, the information that's used to make that determination, is that just tax

records on the property and the structure? >> Yes, the structure value. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So that's that's what you're using to to determine whether or not that 50% is is achieved. >> Yes, sir. Or

the homeowners that they're at li liberty to seek out a third party appraiser if they think their property is valued a lot higher. >> Okay. and the 10 the 10 years um over the course of a 10-year

period if they uh have damage specific from flooding that is on average over two events 25% each time then that also would trigger. >> Yes sir. And also the add-on to that is it would be considered a

repetitive loss property which that would jeopardize their their insurance rates because a repetitive loss property is anything that's defined as two or more claims within a 10-year rolling period

that's $1,000 or more. >> Just a just a comment on on that particular provision. And this is just this is just personal for me. Um, in my job with the state, I had to deal with folks that had gone

through storms, that had damage. Um, to have someone that had an event and rebuilt their home and for whatever reason, the way this is worded, um, and then to have a storm, no fault of their own, to

come through, very minor damage, and now all of a sudden they have to meet all the new requirements gives me a great deal of concern. um for that particular provision. The um going from the one foot

to the two two foot on freeboard the one foot is the minimum that's required to be adopted. We're moving up two feet. I realized that under the modeled ordinance that they actually I think make a

recommendation to go even >> four higher. Yeah. To go even higher than that. um when when we were talking and I don't know if you've been able to look at this any further but do you do we know how

many structures would be at the maximum now and if they had to rebuild and meet the two feet would then um not be able to do that because they would ex they would go they would be building higher than

the current limitation on the height of the building. >> No sir we have not got all that data collected yet. We're still researching that and I'd be glad to when we get it all compiled together is to

get that to you. >> Yeah, I'd be I'd be very interested in um in seeing that because obviously um you may have some that already would would um would have a problem and if they had to rebuild and had

to gain an ordinance. I looked I did look at the or variance I did look at the variance procedures and how they were written and I think there's the way the language is written it would in some cases

it's going to be problematic for them to gain a variance. Uh so it would be good to have that um have that information as a part of the part of the evaluation of uh of adopting this. Which leads me to

just a couple of very brief comments and um this is really based upon the state has identified a number of areas where a public hearing is required. And the reason for requiring that public hearing is

the state deemed as a policy um that it was it warranted public input. Um we already had public input originally on this when it was a part of the UDO. Um I know I put together a number of comments.

Other commissioners I'm sure did as well. Uh we did have public comment on it. We had planning board a meeting with the planning board and there were uh issues that were expressed there or comments

that were expressed there. And it it just seems to me for and we discussed this but for particular types of ordinances being adopted by the town. Um when the state seems to believe that it warrants at

least having a a public hearing. As much as we stress public input and how much we value public input, it just seems to me that we would have a more formal process where comments that are received

would be considered by the board, but actually response to comments would be prepared uh and the public would have access to that. what is our, you know, what is our response to a particular comment

that's been given or a particular concern that's been given either verbally or in writing. It just seems to me that we would respond to that. We would prepare a response to comments. I was used to

that at the state level. That's what we did. And I I just felt like especially for those where we have to have a public hearing that it would make sense to have those in place. And I hope that's

something there that we can talk about perhaps uh when we have our retreat is having that type of process put in place um for Buffford. I also think if it's a if it's an item that requires a public

hearing, it also makes sense when we receive public comment that perhaps not even to take a vote on it that evening, but to take a vote at the at the next meeting just as a just as a process. It just

it makes a lot of sense to me to do that and to encourage the public to understand exactly what we're voting on to understand the particular ordinance that is being proposed and to have the

opportunity to to comment on it. Um with that I'll I'll end my my questions and comments. Thank you. >> Okay. All right. So he's yield the floor. Do we have any further questions? >> I I have another

question. Um there was a discrepancy between the adoption times. The the the town uh staff planners had discussed adoption upon um the vote and I think area in the last email that we just had you had

discussed adoption um when the maps were approved which should be believe February um 5th 2027. Can can you speak to that please? >> Yeah and I think and Jeremy help me out with this. the the new maps

are actually effective on >> February 5th February 5th. And so the issue is if we adopt the new ordinance effective today, we will reference maps that technically aren't effective until February. >>

Yes. When the maps become effective, we have the auto adoption language in the ordinance that will automatically adopt those. So >> Okay. So, so if we adopted today, we would travel with the maps as

they are today and then they would automatically update on February 5th. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> So, that seems to be a pretty good answer to that question we discussed by email. >> Okay. Thank

you. [clears throat] >> I have a question for you. Oh, I thought you were clearing your voice. Okay. I apologize. Uh just to kind of piggyback on something that you started out with saying that this

is a balance here because we are looking at rating that could affect our citizens and I can remember uh years that Kyle Garner has worked on this and has provided great discounts for people who are

very very happy because flood insurance is really difficult and very very expensive and we want to be able to keep that in mind. but also too uh piggybacking off of Commissioner Matthews concern of

how we can pick up those extra points. Open spaces is also calculated into that and we do have an street park coming on board. We do have some space sets available that the town has under

jurisdiction. Correct me if I'm wrong that's off of West Bowford Road. Has any of those been calculated into this um rating system? And is that where what has been actually calculated to get us to

where we are that we are under that threshold of moving from seven to six? >> Yes, ma'am. That's excellent question. Do we have the last cycle visit? We did incorporate the acreage over on West

Buffett Road. >> Okay. >> Uh we will get pick up the other parks and other open spaces that comes available for our next cycle visit. And hopefully that that'll there'll be a few extra points and of

course it's always at the discretion of the reviewer about how many points they want to give us. >> Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Yes, >> ma'am. O >> sir, >> if I was confused, I got even more

by time commissioner Dexter uh finish with his dissertate. So on the can we do the [laughter] go up to two feet but the optional part can we come back to that later? >> Absolutely. I mean the the the

two foot is optional. It's not mandatory. It's just to get us more CRS points for the community. So you can certainly leave it at one foot which is really mandatory for us to stay at a class 7. >> Are

you finished? >> Yes. Just a comment back that you could adopt the minimum criteria and you could start documenting clean out of those ditches and gain basically the same number of points that would

then uh take you to the class that would increase the percentage. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Guaranteed. Nobody has to >> guarant FEMA has to approve it. So none of it we were always at the mercy of

the reviewer. >> That's exactly my point. >> But it does qualify you for basically the same number of points >> basically. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> But it's a matter of when. >> Will it be immediate? >>

No, ma'am. >> No. Okay. All right. And we've got to do this by February 5th. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Commissioner Gilligan. >> So, this is not just about the two feet is not just about CRS credits.

This is about property and life and safety and repetitive losses. I grew up in a repetitive loss house and I will tell you it is very stressful to have the North River coming up through the carpet of

your bedroom and I wish um the county at the time and still does have zero um for freeboard and my parents were not educated on how uh environmental conditions were going to be changing or what the

risks were and so they didn't build up very far. So, um, you know, the Oakwood Acres neighborhood got destroyed in Florence. That was in our ETJ and a lot of those houses had zero freeboard. Um, a lot

of them had one and a lot of them got torn down. So, this is also about safety and us having to deploy our high water rescue vehicle to get people out of their houses. This is about the county having

to spend millions of FEMA dollars on picking up refrigerators and insulation and parts of houses. So, it's just not about the CRS credits. It's about life and safety and a lot of other money that we

have to uh spend on recovery. Um in that regard uh obviously public safety is very important but in addition by adding that additional foot um of freeboard it does increase the cost of building and

building new and that could be prohibitive in the future for even um affordable housing in our community. So we need to weigh that as well. Um you know Bowford has some very stringent storm water

requirements and so forth. some of the most stringent storm water requirements in our in our county. Um, but I'm really um concerned about the cost that that adds to the the the new build um of of

properties and how prohibitive that may be for some people who are um trying to come into our community. And if I could just just add and and thank you for for those comments, Commissioner Gilligan, I

I totally agree with what you're saying. I also understand that the minimum criteria that were adopted by FEMA that we're we're required in a sense if we want to continue being a part of this program

um are the requirements they felt like were safe are the requirements that they felt like were protective. They gave incentives which I love incentives and environmental regulations. I've said that

publicly. Uh they gave incentives to go beyond that and those incentives are based upon that CRS score. And so I think it does deserve the attention that we're giving it. But I also believe that

anything that we can do administratively that does not require an ordinance is good to do and we should be doing it. That's the reason I was stressing that uh that we move forward with that as well

because we can gain those points that are almost equivalent to everything we would gain by adopting the requirements that u are discretionary. No, Mike. I'm sorry. >> Well, I was going to make a

motion, >> but if you >> I'm not ready for that. [laughter] >> Um, I just wanted to second what Commissioner Gillicanin said. I think this is not just about how many points we're getting on a chart.

This is thinking about what we want for our community and knowing that conditions are changing. We can't plan for the past. We need to plan for the future. That includes affordable housing price CRS

credits, but also plans like Commissioner Gillikin said for making sure that our community is safe. Um, you know, the state recommended four feet of free board. We're going with two, which I think is

a good compromise. Um I think that we have the [clears throat] opportunity to be a leader in this space and yes it will cause some impacts but it can also greatly um benefit our community as well. So

we have to balance all all of those factors and so I'm in support of the two-foot freeboard because I think it's a good compromise between the one and the four um that we've been um given the option

of. Well, with speaking with town and with um with manager and so forth, I I feel like this is there's a lot here still to go over and to kind of ponder. And um I'd really like to table this and move

this towards the next meeting in December, uh December 14th regular meeting. Um, I'd like to see um the the draft um and the um the information presented to be revised so that the uh the color coding

was proper so that people can review that and review the proper information at hand uh with such an important decision that we have here. Okay, Commissioner Gilligan, >> I'd like to comment that yes,

it costs more to build a house, but FEMA has do done a lot of analysis on return on investment and the amount that you invest in the upfront cost versus what you pay over the lifetime of the

structure. And in a place like this that gets a lot of storms, it does pay off. and there are programs that we could perhaps enroll in to offset some of the um the increase in price on the bills

especially on affordable housing. So I think this is relatively low risk with very high impact. I would suggest not tableabling, but if we do table it just simply for reversing the blue and the green

color. Um nothing else. >> And there were some other techn there were some other technical items that I I discussed with Ary that I think could be improved upon um in the draft. Correct. >> Yeah. Yes.

Not only that, I mean staff has already indicated we really don't have any idea um of how many structures we're talking about that may be impacted with with the two feet particularly uh and perhaps we

can gain some some additional information between now and the next meeting to help with that to evaluate the impact that uh we'd be having by the decision we would be making on it. I also would

honestly would like to give more consideration again back to the five and the 10 years as to whether or not there's some changes in that language. We don't have to adopt the language exactly as the

model ordinance would have it. There may be ways of of handling that that would lessen some of the concerns that I have with it. >> Okay. um staffing has somewhat favored this move. So were there

discussion about how many of the homes that uh Commissioner uh Dexter is speaking of? Was was that a was that in play or it was no? We're we're still researching that just to see exactly because

Commissioner Matthews had asked for some specific data and we're working on that data set as we speak. Well, not right now, but >> So, [clears throat] all the effort that you guys put into you put it

in still even knowing that maybe there was some more data needed, but still strongly in favor of of uh approving this FEMA. uh >> we we put the data the optional language in at the recommendation of

the state of the NFIP program. >> So you're so staff is saying yes due to uh to state recommendations. >> That's correct. And the free board to increase safety and >> resiliency in our community. Yes,

sir. >> That it would improve. Okay. Thank you. >> All righty. So you do have some options. Seems like you guys have asked a lot of questions. Um, hearing some uh potential tableabling of this

particular case. Um, you would have to give that specific >> I said with with the tableabling. I made the motion for the tableabling. Like I said, I think the specific changes that I did recommend

that I we already had with an email that I had sent out. I think would strengthen the town's position on for this to not be considered downzoning on some specific items. So um that I think the changes

I think it would be made to that I think would be beneficial to the town. >> Yeah. And the two very specific changes. Um it is in the mandatory language. So we need to check with the state and see how

much flexibility we have with changing the mandatory language. There is a reference to our authority under uh chapter or article 7 of chapter 160D as our authority to adopt this ordinance. That is the

zoning article of chapter 160D. That is not our authority and we do not need to say that's our authority because that'll circle you back around down zoning. Um, and you've got a similar uh reference

that Commissioner Leicolo pointed out in 151.05. Um, and the, you know, wording is this ordinance and other zoning ordinances. This is not a zoning ordinance. So, it needs to read other development

regulations or something along those lines. So, um those are two changes that um you know I would recommend either we bring back to the board if the matter is tabled but if um the board moves forward

with um approving the ordinance tonight I think it needs to be subject to making those two changes. >> Okay. >> So when you say I'd like to move this. That's your motion. >> Okay. All right. I just >>

What was the motion? >> What was Yeah. Well, motion was to um to uh to continue the public hearing on this um to the December 14th regular meeting and direct the staff to return with a revision uh of

the uh of the draft at hand >> to return with what I'm sorry with with a revision of the draft. >> Okay. And friendly amendment, but could they also identify those particular provisions that that are

optional? um but do not enhance regulatory requirements. In other words, they're more of a process or an item that the town is already doing that gives us additional points on the CRS system. I'd

support that. Thank you. >> And and mayor, point of clarification, I believe the public hearing was closed. Did I hear that earlier? So, the motion is to >> not continue the public hearing, but to

table consideration of the ordinance adoption. If that's correct, Commissioner, >> that's correct. >> I do have a question from a staff point. Can we incorporate the changes from our rata sheet as we

if you decide to table it so that way that'll be that'll be one item, right? Yeah. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we've got a motion on the floor. Any further questions? All in favor say

I. >> I. >> I. >> All oppose have the same right. Say nay. >> Nay. >> We've got two opposed and three eyes. Motion carries the table until the December 14th meeting. >> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Now,

we're going to move on to public comment. She's getting her time clock out. That must mean somebody's ready to make a comment. >> I have one person. um signed up. Shelby Sally. >> Miss Sally. >> Well,

it goes without saying to be a commissioner, you've got to have many skill sets. After all those technical words and all the scrutinizing that you've had to do, I hope you can take a breath and bring

forward your affective skill set. Now, tonight I would like to speak to you about a fact. And that fact is a library should open doors, not create barriers. And I'm speaking specifically about the

decision of the new Buffer Branch librarian to require um folks to register online for classes. She's eliminating the signup sheet that's normally at the circulation desk. I believe this change is a

mistake particularly in a town like ours where a significant percentage of our population consist of senior citizens. According to the Carter County government website, Bowfort has roughly 32 to 33%

of resident population that is 65 or older. We need to remember that not everyone has a computer, not everyone has a smartphone. And even among those who do, not everyone is comfortable navigating

online registration systems. For many older residents, technology can be intimidating, frustrating, or simply inaccessible. The result of this new policy is predictable. Fewer seniors will sign up for

classes. Fewer will attend programs and some will quietly stop participating altogether. That is a real concern. Our public library is more than a place to borrow books. It is a community gathering

place. Its programs offer seniors opportunities to learn, socialize, stay engaged, and maintain meaningful connections with others. For some older residents, these activities are an important part of

their quality of life. The old-fashioned signup sheet at the circulation desk worked. It was simple, familiar, personal, and accessible. A patron could walk into the library, speak to a staff member,

ask a question, and put his or her name on the signup sheet. That system did more than register people. It demonstrated that the library understood its patrons and respected their individual needs. I

recognize that online registration may be more efficient for library staff. A public library is not simply a business and efficiency should never become more important than accessibility. There's a

wonderful line from the movie Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. But I would suggest that the reverse is also true. If you create barriers to participation, people will stay away. I

visited two other libraries in Carter County to see how their registration system worked. I learned three words or experienced three words, flexibility, inclusivity, and respect for the patrons. They

had a choice online or sign up at the desk. This is not the case at the Bowford Branch Library. My request is straightforward. I ask you to visit the Bowford Branch Library. Advocate for your senior

citizen friends, senior citizen family members, senior citizen neighbors, senior citizens who possibly voted for you and put their trust in you to represent them. Our senior citizens deserve to be

considered, included, and accommodated. They've contributed to this community for decades. They should not find themselves excluded from their own public libraries programs because they don't use a

computer. The measure of a great library is not how efficiently it uses technology, but how well it serves the people who walk through the doors. Thank you. >> Thank you. Well said. Anybody else?

That's it. Okay. >> Now, we're going to move on to new business. We have the special event permit application for the Bowford Wine and Food Spring Festival of 2027. Who's jumping up? Oh, pack it. >>

Hi, mayor and commissioners. Um, Bowfort Food and Wine submitted special event permit application to host their annual spring festival on April 21st to the 24th, 2027. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank

you. >> It's committed to me. This is their annual event and it will largely be held on Saturday, April 24th, 2027. And here is the director, Britney Pitman. [clears throat] Excuse me. Hello. Thank

you all for uh taking time tonight to uh review our application for our spring festival. Um as you know, we did it downtown um this year, 2026 and this past April. However, we did not use town

property um this time for 2027. We would like to include town property and a street closure. So, that is what this application mostly speaks to. Um and uh you you'll see we're using private property

as well on Middle Lane and there included in your folder are um permissions from those property owners and um waiver liability waivers. So everyone is in support of the festival that is participating

in it. We've incorporated many of the businesses on Middle Lane. I also conducted an economic impact study internally um for this this year and conservatively speaking it brought in about $700,000 in

economic impact to the county overall and much of that was in Bowfort. Um and it's continuing to grow. We saw a lot of growth and I I directly attributed that to being downtown this year. So we are

finally back to our precoid numbers um which is in the event world has been a struggle for many organizations uh in in the uh country, not just our our county. Um so we're excited about that and we're

looking forward to more growth. We just wrapped up our Chuck Plusa weekend um this weekend. So um and that did really well and saw growth as well. So overall as an organization we are seeing growth in

all of our numbers and that directly impacts Buffert e uh economic activity and the county as a whole. So please keep that in mind as well. And we have many business owners involved as sponsors and um

that are also um very um wrapped up in the festival and the overall uh success of it. So, please keep that in mind when we're asking for these things. Um, and I'm here to answer any questions you may

have. Um, if you're not familiar with our our organization and the work we do, there is a brochure in your folder that speaks to that specifically. Um, we are a nonprofit in Buffert. We are 21 years

old and I've been with the organization. This will be my fifth spring festival. Um, since we've been in operation, we've given back 1.4 4 million to other causes, other charities, nonprofits, uh

projects we've funded in the county. Um we keep the money in the county. We made one exception for western North Carolina last year and that was the only time uh the dollars reached outside of our

county and it was specifically to help food and beverage workers in western North Carolina that were impa impacted by Helen. Um we have given uh $50,000 to Bridge Down East most recently to purchase a

van for their after school program. We also um purchased an instructional inflatable for the Buffer Fire Department. So we also subsidize public services in that in that manner. So if anyone has any

questions regarding the logistics, I'm happy to answer them. >> Well, thank you, Miss Pitman. And we really do appreciate all the energy that the Bowfort Wine and Food has put into their events

because we know that you're going to send those dollars right where they needed to be and we've seen how those dollars have affected people in a positive way. I want to thank you and the organization

for that. But does anybody have any questions for Miss Pitman? >> No questions. I just want to say this is one of the most professional presentations I've ever seen. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for uh

for providing this providing the economic impact study. >> I know. >> Um providing such detailed information about it. >> Thank you. We do we provide that information to the TDA as well. Um so they

have that information on record. I always provide them with all of our demographic information so they can use that in their decision-making process as well. We receive grants from them. We receive

the maximum grant from them that we fun funnel into our marketing efforts which help me um achieve these you know these demographic this demographic information and um produce um reports such as that.

>> Well, I commend your efforts as a nonprofit in our community. You guys do such a great job um putting on event and also giving back to the community and to people in need here. Um so I appreciate

all you do. Thank you. >> Thank you. And thank you for our firehouse. [laughter] >> You're welcome. You're very welcome. >> It's a very big blowup firehouse. >> All right. Any questions for Miss

Pitman? >> Thank you very much, Miss Pitman. I appreciate your time. >> All righty. So, what is the pleasure of the board when it comes down to the requested action for this application as presented?

>> I'll make the motion to approve the special use uh event permit application for Bowford Wine and Food Spring Festival 2027. Okay, now we got a motion on the floor. Any further questions? All in

favor say I. >> I. I. >> All oppose have the same right. Very good. [clears throat] Now we're going to move on to the Boast phase 4 construction access agreement. This was an item that was under item

of consent, but we pulled that down because we have a commissioner who has a little bit more questions to ask about that. And Matt, who would you like to have to talk about this agreement just

briefly? Uh Arie and I will discuss it together. >> All right. >> Um so would you like an overview? >> Yes, please. >> So the representative representatives and the development team at Bo Coast had

reached out to us provided a request for an access entrance agreement to keep heavy duty traffic off the adjoining and neighboring streets during construction of phase 4. Uh this is approximately a

450 foot distance that currently has a gravel pathway already in position. Um legal has reviewed the access agreement and we presented that and placed it into your packet today for consideration. Um,

we don't believe there would be any more trees that would be moved or needed to be adjusted in this non-vegetated area where the pathway would go and it would preserve the integrity of the streets

which would keep the heavy duty vehicles off during construction. I was also asked by commissioners leading up to this meeting what would the time frame be. It's hard to determine it would be based on

the need for construction and this in our professional opinion from a staff level would be beneficial to all parties involved not just the development in boat coast phase 4 but to anyone that would be

traversing in and out from a safety perspective from construction related vehicles. I believe Corey's here with us today and answer any additional questions that may be necessary. Um if there's a

technical legal question within the document I think Arie would be able to address it. >> Okay. Thank you for that overview. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um, [clears throat] I've seen a picture which led me to

want to get more information on that, but it's not in our package. I'm not sure where I came from, but it showed uh and I have driven uh in that area about uh about a couple of years ago and saw a

tremendous amount of wildlife and uh really talking about very beautiful piece of property that we own. we should be very thankful that uh that we have it, but once again, it's not in this package.

So, I'm not sure where I seen it. But when I saw it as it originally is, uh it it made me want to ask some questions. And as I read the the agreement, um it drew some concern where that um even though

they said they would whatever they disturbed that they would return it back to the original uh piece of property. Uh but then they had a language in here about not assuming the responsibility for the

subsurface condition. Can [clears throat] you explain that? Can what they would be saying is uh let me see is page four. >> Page four. Okay. >> Page four of the agreement. >> I see similar language on

page two that deals with restoration. Mhm. >> And it's I think it's the same language you're looking at provision. And the language reads uh grantee is not assuming any responsibility >> for the

subservice subsurface condition of the property including any pre-existing environmental conditions not cause to exist in the property by grantee parties. And yes, that's some um legal language, but

it's uh basically saying we're not going to assume responsibility town or indemnify town for anything that's existing out there as of today, particularly anything under the ground. What What could

that be? We don't know until you get out there and start digging. I know noted specifically says pre-existing environmental conditions. Um I don't believe the town knows that there are any on that

property, but there have been some environmental conditions um out that way in recent memory with an abandoned landfill. So, um you really never know what's under the the property until you you start

digging. Of course, they're not going to dig, but I think it's a pretty typical protection for a party that wants to use an existing path or so road across another owner's property. To be honest, >>

my interest is in uh that they're willing to bring their trucks on a nice piece of property that we have now. is basically if any if anything they get it gets no more than vehicle automobile traffic

and now they want to start bringing their trucks and not showing about how much what the time frame is for all of this heavy traffic that we're going to be putting on on this piece of property

environmentally green space whatever. Uh, also know that by state regs, most trucks, if they're carrying a certain load, must bring down that the last two wheels that they have on the back end or the

front end of the vehicle to take the load off the road. So, I'm wondering why he's not willing to not wanting to to do that versus treading on on a nice pristine piece of property and do some damage

to it. Um, there we are. That's a beautiful piece of property and they want to bring their trucks down on this. >> Yes, >> I have issue with that. >> Understood. I will note that the grantee is under

the affirmative obligation to promptly repair and restore as needed the property damage to substantially the same condition as existed prior to the damage or the exercise of the rights under the the

easement. So if there there is damage they they have to bring it back >> back to that >> to that. But why even have to what I guess is why they have have to use it. >> I mean I think that's a question

for the developer to be honest. I don't I mean I understand generally they're trying to keep this traffic off of existing subdivision streets >> off of his streets. >> Our streets. >> So this is an

intent to protect the integrity of the expensive asphalt roadway system. And when we reviewed it, this is a positive for Buffer to allow that heavy duty traffic to traverse a path in it's already in

existence and that in the event of any damage or soil stabilization issues that we have the commitment in writing from the developer that they would repair it back to this condition. The reason that

you received it, this was an email that I sent either on Thursday or Friday after having a meeting with commissioners that asked the question of the status. Um, Donovan Willis went out immediately and

these pictures are either from Thursday or Friday. They're relatively recent. So, Elizabeth opened up the email that we had sent out and then pull the pictures into the system. So, thank you for doing

>> when the developers So, they are using the regular streets right now for most of their construction traffic. >> Corey, would you make your way to the podium and help answer any questions about your

process? >> But right now, so there's no reimbursement to the town for the construction that's already occurred. Right. >> So, traditionally what happens is you have a roadway that's under

construction or a development that's under construction and they usually only have the base course of material in position. Then when the roadway is the construction is dominantly to a place that is

complete, what's called the final lift or the top coat of asphalt goes into place. And only after that time would the town traditionally take a a roadway into its ownership. And when you take a

roadway into ownership with utilities, oftentimes there's a warranty period. That rule of thumb or BMP tells you it's roughly 12 months after the time of ownership. And then at that point, for

example, on a roadway, then we would begin to transfer that roadway onto our power bill map and receive funding from the state. Albeit it is very minor funding um in relation to maintenance. So a

roadway would probably have a life cycle dependent on thickness, width, and travel between 15 and 20 years be before it would need milled and paved. So in this particular case, I think that Boast has

seen the three phases of development and this is now pertinent to phase four if I'm not mistaken. >> That's correct. >> You can pick it up and share anything else where you are, what your intent was

or why they asked. Yeah, our main intention was just not to not um you know tear up the roads going into current boat coast now >> and there's no way to get there on roads that are not already paved.

Well, my thing is that I mean hearing that and uh road, okay, don't mess up the road, but how about environmental? Because now you're looking at tons of truck coming in with diesel, smoke, and I mean,

it just environmentally could do some damage. >> I I don't know what kind of damage it would do. I mean, I know we could tear up the roadway, but we're not going to remove any trees or anything like

that. >> Well, these trucks come in and shifting gears and all this black smoke start puffing out of the the the buffalo or whatever >> that that black smoke would also >> it would also carry into the

same area if we were on the asphalt with wind and things like that. So, >> Commissioner Gillican, >> do we know how long the soil path is across the town tract? >> It's approximately 450 ft. And then

basically we see some parcels laid out that and it runs right into those parcels. Those are going to be part of phase 4. >> Yes. >> And you're probably going to be do clearing those trees back there.

I would assume. >> Um we have no intentions to clear any trees back there except for what's on the road in inside the rightway. >> That'll be the same as phase 2B and three where we leave those lots

wooded like they are now >> and then the property owner decides what they want to do. Yes. Okay. I don't think 400 and some feet would be a huge deal. I just know the number of complaints we got from

people in other areas of town when trucks are coming through their roads. So, um this might be a good alternative for some of those people if it's only 400 and and some feet. But that that is that

road is quite you sure of that because it it it extend further back to the water. >> Yes. I rolled it with wheel this morning >> sir. >> I rolled it and measured it this morning myself. >> You rolled

and measured it yourself this morning. >> Yeah. The town piece wraps down behind our property, >> but the path itself is approximately 450 ft. It's a pretty clear path. Anybody walking it? >> We don't

see anyone walking it. >> Okay. only a year. >> So, >> so who would be monitoring or actually I guess once the once you guys have stopped using it, you would let the town know and then we go in and do

an assessment of whatever damage might have occurred. >> Yes, sir. So, for example, I think it was Thursday that email was generated and these are the photographs taken by town staff which happens to

be Mr. Willis who's operating utilities and at the wastewater treatment plant. Uh we also would have our town engineer and our public works director monitor those as well. So if there are issues, we

have a pretty strong communication >> with the team over [snorts] at Bow Coast for because we are neighbors, we tend to hear from them on occasion at the wastewater treatment plant. So, uh, when the

northern wind shift and the winds come in and things occur in the fall, um, we we tend to talk pretty frequent. So, >> conversations. >> Yeah. U, but yes, sir, it would be a balanced effort between my

office, public works, utilities, and engineering. >> Would there be a need for silk fencing >> or just leave it as it is? >> Um, I don't think there's a need, but if the town would like, we could put

it up, especially along that western side. >> I would if long in in terms of whatever ditch areas that might run occurren along with the uh with the roadway itself to make sure you know that uh no

foreign objects. >> Yeah, it's really just a low area. It's not I mean you could call it more of like a swale but it's not title or anything like that. Well, I'd like to point out that some silk

fencing will like disrupt small animals from moving across the road. Ju just to bring that up as kind of flipping the coin. Um and also is it to keep traffic off of Abviset? >> Yes, Abviset and Brown

Pelican. >> And Brown Pelican. >> So, but does that mean you're going to have more traffic on Freedom Park Road getting to the soil path? Which way do you come? >> Because it has to come. We would

come down Leonda anyway to Freedom Park. >> So, it's not going to help get any of the traffic off Leonda or Freedom Park Road. >> No, that'll always be there, >> which is right by my house. >> Uh,

Commissioner, I'm not asking for a total silk fencing along that just maybe along whatever ditch area. So, the animals will still be able to cross. Uh, I I just want to >> Gotcha. For just the ditch.

>> Yeah, just areas. >> Protect the turtles. We could work with town staff to determine where that is. >> Okay. >> All right. Any further questions? >> Just a comment. Um >> Okay. >> The restoration

is as as I understand the provision is not all kept to the end of the project. If there's damage during the period of time, then it will be restored immediately. Correct. Thank you. >> [clears throat]

>> It sounds like we'll be keeping an eye out on that as well. So staff will be in contact with you. Unless there's any further questions, what is the pleasure of the board in this uh request for the

BOS phase 4 construction access agreement? I make a motion that uh move forward with the B coast uh phase 4 rec uh construction with modified in terms of uh assuring silk fencing along the ditch

areas. >> Okay, got a motion on the floor. Any further question? All in favor say I. >> I. >> All oppose have the same right. Well, thank you very one day. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we got that recorded.

Okay, very good. All right. So, now we're going to move on to manager's report. Let's look at the manager. >> Thank you, ma'am. [laughter] >> Soak it in. >> So, okay. Everybody look at the manager. >>

Sure. Um, we have a couple of items that are in addition tonight that were just timesensitive. So, if it's okay, uh, we'd like to talk about your November and December work sessions. We also have

received both in the mail and then electronically an announcement about the Bowfort crossing meeting which we'll address. We also have an issue that is a prime opportunity for us to discuss the

potential repaving of Wellins Drive. And then lastly, I do have an update that is from today at approximately 1:30 pertinent to the Ann and more closure of a potential intersection. So if that's okay,

I'd like to cover those four. >> Absolutely. So we'd begin with November 23rd and or December 21st. Uh traditionally the town considers uh suspending or cancelling those two workshop sessions. One

because Thanksgiving uh love to spend it with you, but maybe you want to spend it with your families. Um so if you if there's no pertinent or emergency business, we would ask that you consider

November 23rd and then also the same for December 21st since it's the week of Christmas. So if the board has any questions about pending or upcoming um staff protocol, we are trying to place your

business on the December 14th meeting. So we believe as a staff that 23rd of November and 21 December could pot be foregone. >> Okay. Mhm. >> With that being said, does the board have um any issues

with suspending the Well, I don't think that's the word suspending, but >> cancel the 23rd of November and December the 21st because it falls around the holiday so staff and can enjoy time with their

family. >> What days will town hall be closed? >> Which particular time for the >> Thanksgiving? For Thanksgiving, it'll be closed to Thursday and Friday, >> which is >> 26th and 27th. >> And of

course, the 21st you'll have Christmas coming around the 23rd and >> be the three state days as well. >> Yeah, I know normally we uh don't do the uh we do cancel our board meeting for around the

Christmas holidays. Would this be the first for Thanksgiving? No, >> we've done it before. >> Yes, >> we have. >> Not recently. >> If you'd like to hold it, we'll gladly hold a meeting. We're just

offering it up as an option. >> You can say no to one, yes to the other, or no to both. I mean, if it's your recommendation that we don't may may not need those meetings, I'm in favor of uh removing

those meetings from our our uh calendar. >> Yeah. >> So, that's both November the 23rd and December the 21st is under your motion, correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have a motion on the floor. All in

favor say I. I. >> All oppose have the same right. Motion carries. >> Thank you. Uh the second item would be pertinent to Bowfort Crossing. So if you would I'll hand out the invitation public notice

that was received today and wanted to identify that um residents in that area particular to Bowford Crossing will probably be receiving this piece that was mailed to us as a courtesy copy today. It

comes on Tidewater Associates Incorporated letterhead indicating that there is a meeting scheduled and slated for Wednesday, November 18th, 6:00 to 8:00 PM. The meeting would be held at the Bowford

Elementary School at 110 Caraway Drive. And that if there's any additional questions or comments, the Bowford Crossing team has identified planner Josh Edmonson at Tidewater as their point of contact.

And Mr. Edmonson can be reached at area code 2523936101. And we would encourage not only adjacent and nearby property owners, but anyone that has interest in that current conversation to provide their

input. Um, and there's also an opportunity to email Mr. Jeff Baron at Jeff, [clears throat] excuse me, baronpropies.com. Okay. >> So, um is this where the committee will be? Is this the one for the

committee meeting >> or is this just an information? >> This is the community meeting. The committee meeting was tentatively um scheduled in December, but unfortunately the two members of the planning

board that were appointed can't make that. So, we're currently researching alternative dates. This is the open public invitation for a community meeting. >> So thanks G. >> Yes sir. >> So who will be

handling the input that is going to be received and how do we get that input back? >> So I believe that this was an opportunity that was offered up by the developer to hold the public meeting and then

the developer comes back to the workshop group and then they share that data at the workshop group. So, this was scheduled first for November 18th. The workshop meeting uh with the small group was

slated for December 10th, but we do have two people that have a scheduling conflict. Okay. >> And this has been blasted out on all of our social media, everything. If you actually have um because this

is going to be what, next week, right? So, will we send out one of those alerts as far as those text messages are concerned that this is going on? >> Um, usually we only use the regroup messaging for

alerts for road closures, water outages, or storm events. Um, but I mean, we could if you wanted us to do that. Um, it'll also go out in the newsletter blast on the 15th of this month. Um, it's hit

the sunshine list already as well as the website and Facebook. >> Yeah. whatever reason, that text message is really effective. We were at the booth there at the farmers market and Julie was actually

able to turn people on, hear about how they're getting information a little quicker than having to search for it. I don't know if that's something that we could actually do for this. >> The thing with

the text messages, we don't want to overuse it. Um, and and with the parameters of the text messages, we're trying to keep it to road closures, water outages, and any kind of storm events because we

don't want to bombard people's messaging system. >> They don't pay attention. >> Do they? Yeah. Yeah. >> And it would be hard to pick and choose which events you're sharing via that way. >> Story. >>

Okay. All righty. >> Any further questions about the community meeting slated for 18 November? >> Tell a friend. >> Thank you. Uh the next item is actually a really exciting opportunity that uh was

presented to us earlier today. We finally got some numbers. I'm going to pass down um two pieces. I've marked them at the top. One is about Wellins, the other is the Ann and Moore closure. These were

both emails that were sent, but I wanted to make sure you had [clears throat] quick access to this data in the event that you had any questions. So, if you'll um just go ahead and pass the two pages

down and we'll begin to discuss Wellins as our first item. Thank you. You So, there was a request um Commissioner Cooper when we talked about USDA paving and our paving project had asked me to do some

research on Wellins Drive and we did uh town staff. It was an exhaustive process. It wasn't just a simple length by width by depth calculation. We had to research the water, the sewer and the storm

water lines in that particular area. We went underground with CCTV or the closed caption television process to do do the assessment of the sanitary sewer. We have identified that the dips in the

problems that currently exist on Wellins Drive can be addressed on the upper level surface and that with a 1 and 1/2 in mill of Wellins Drive, a 1 and 1/2 in new asphalt placement installation of

thermos striping on Wellins that the total combination estimate that we were provided today between 12 and 130 is rated at $100,000. The recommendation for this is to move forward with the paving of

Wellland Drive as described above, which would allow us to leverage the current mobilization of Allen Grading. Uh I apologize that this information was provided to you this afternoon and being brought

to you tonight. Um we didn't receive this information until very late today. The purpose of this is to seek your concurrence that funding of this project must be paid for by local town funds only.

wanted to identify that you cannot use USDA because this was not a part of the project and there will be no overrun in USDA funding. The current asphalt project when it went out for bid came in lowest

with Allen grading at $2.6 million and the moving target is the final adjusting change orders from the contracts one, two, and three which are uh the sanitary sewer portion of the project, the water

and the storm water system. And then ultimately we have now created contract number four and that contract four is the coming back and the asphalt paving. But because we have a chance to pave wellins

today um and fit it into the work schedule, we felt it was important enough to bring to you tonight and our recommendation is that we do move forward. We have um approximately in the streets portion

$1.26 26 million in our streets capital reserve fund. And I would recommend that we utilize those dollars which are identified for these type of repairs to pay the $100,000 and let our contractor, if

you will, this is not a professional term knock it out while they're here. And I think that as a staff, we discussed that quite a few roads are receiving their top coat of asphalt now. And this this

is really well received by the community. We think this would be another goodwill of a roadway completely um in disarray and this would be all of Wellins Drive from Campen Road to the terminus at Live

Oak and I'll answer any questions that you have. Julie's available as was Elizabeth. She was in our meeting too. >> Well, let me be the first to say thank you. [clears throat] Um I did present this to

you. I think back in was it July of sometime that uh the streets was in uh poor disarray. I had a uh couple of residents over that area speak on that road that they travel in and it was a very very

the pit hoes was not only them but myself of riding on the streets some of the streets of New York City that the pit hole uh needed to uh to be taken care of and hopefully u people wouldn't have to

get as many will alignments. So, I want to thank you for uh keeping that u on the top of your list there and finding the funds for us to be able to uh do that. And now I can go back to those residents

that I once said that I don't think we are going to be able to do it. Now, I can go back and say it's going to be done. At least I think it's going to be done. I hope the board uh votes favorably in

uh in this uh well done endeavor of paving that road. But when I first saw it coming off of uh live oak just up by the small uh mall area, I like, okay, maybe it'll maybe it'll go around and I can see

it's going to going to hopefully it's going to go around. So, thank you. >> Any further questions? Nope. Now riding by there, there is some asphalt that has been laid. >> So it'll pick up from there

and go all the way around behind. >> So what we are doing is doing a full repair from Live Oak to Camping all the full extent. That's what was calculated in square yardage at one and a half removal,

one and a half reinstall. And there were already dips that'll have repairs there as well. And any of the point repairs that would be necessary are outside of the rightway. >> Okay. Well, inside the

rightway, outside of the asphalt, I want to be very specific about my terminology. >> And like you said, Matt, this is just paving. It's not recrowning or anything like that. >> Well, they they're

working they would reestablish it on best management practice. And there were substantial problems in the center section of the road which you talked about would whether or not they needed to be

removed and replaced. But Allen Grading was on site and physically determine that they can do those spot repairs first and then come back and do an edgetoedge mill and pave >> while they're in the

area. >> That's right. >> Sounds very good. So with that uh information in mind, any further questions? If not, what is the pleasure of the board as far as approving the uh use of money to pave

wellins? >> I'd like to make a motion that uh we move forward with uh this paving of Wellen Road at 100,000. >> Thank you. Got a motion on the floor. All in favor say I. >> Hold on. >> Sorry. Um one

one comment. Um okay, >> Commissioner Cooper, if you don't mind also adding if you you agree to this that um the funding source would be from the asphalt reserves. >> Okay. >> Which is what the

recommendation as I understood it was. >> Is that direct? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> All right. So we have that motion amended. All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All oppose have

the same right. Very good. What other good news do you have for us, Matt? >> Uh, we have quite a bit coming down the line. So, um, they are working, they being our contracted teams. Uh, we do have

multiple teams in the field. One, we're going to go talk about Ann and Moore next. So, we are working in the field. If you're aware that on the eastern end of broad construction has been really um,

substantial. And so thank you to all of our Broad Street residents for not only their patience but their understanding. Now we do have glimmers and hopes of wins along the way and want to point out

that the level of customer engagement, the level of customer service has been extremely high. Uh this is a complete rehabilitation and a rebuild of a road. So uh you're talking 18 24 in down or coming

back up with stone roll packing compacting and we had to make a decision. There's a couple of pieces. So you have the asphalt team that is working and that's with Allen Grading. You also have TA

Loving and their subcontractors trying to finish waterline installation and additional work. And so they're working towards one another. And we had an extremely important and helpful meeting today,

but we want to point out that there needs to be another closure of Ann and Moore's intersection because of the depth and the necessity of safety to put those water lines in. That did present itself

with a challenge because the 100 block of Moore, as you know, traverses and runs south north to south towards Front Street. And when you close the intersection, it will create a conundrum. And so

fire, police, engineering, administration, we're all together on site with our contractors and our team. What we'll need to do for safety purposes, is notify the community early, which would begin

tomorrow. And then we'll also be putting out signage. We're going to go doortodoor with door hangers and request that there be no on street parking for a 7-day period beginning Monday the 16th. and

running through t well 7 to 8 day period running through Tuesday the 24th which would allow the contractors to do their work in the intersection. They're going to try to maintain oneway access through

the intersection. But the true challenge here is in the event of an emergency services purpose, a fire truck needs to be able to come down the street, an ambulance or a police vehicle and may have to

go, if you will, back up the oneway street. And so to do that, we're just going to ask politely that residents um stay off of that roadway for parking purposes during this 7 to 8 day period. So we

worked through the logistics of all of that. This information will be disseminated beginning today, tomorrow, and into the latter part of the week. So we wanted to thank the police department who's

going to help us with signage. TA Loving Company and their teams are going to be going doortodoor. But we wanted to pause, take this opportunity to share it on tonight's meeting to make sure that the

residents that would be impacted in the 100200 blocks of Moore have as much advanced notice as possible. >> Do we know if anybody has an issue with parking off? >> Well, there there are issues. Yes,

ma'am. And so we want to just announce it, call it what it is. There are people that will have some issues and um that may or may not have a driveway opening. And so we're working through all of those

logistics, but for the purposes of making sure that in the event of a fire or a medical emergency, we want to try to be able to get to them. >> And so that's why we're having this conversation. >> Um,

and I'm going to also divert to another closure. So we open one, we close one. And so, um, our goal is to have Live Oak near the intersection of Pine by the Firehouse at station one opened by Friday

at the latest. uh because there is a demark line for Monday the 16th of November. So that is when do is going to close down live oak 101 completely. So we're we're playing 3D chess with our hands tied

and our blindfold on. But we are want you to know that there is a substantial amount of energy, thought, and consideration going into each of these processes. So we explained to TA Loving that we

couldn't possibly close Ann and Moore before Monday the 16th and we wanted to ensure that barring any major issues that everything is opened on Live Oak and Pine Street as well. The coordination level

of engagement and I think you can ask either of the chiefs that are in the room tonight was very strong and we are trying to think as far ahead as possible. There's a lot of moving pieces and I'll

also pause to tell you that we're working diligently on An Street Park and to get to An Street Park, you have to continue down An Street. There's also waterline work occurring on An Street. We had to

wait till the new construction at 101 An Street was complete by the private resident holders so that we could begin to engage additional construction equipment on the far west end of Anne.

Simultaneously, the private householder at 101 is working to put uh a a retaining wall up and so their tiebacks fall onto our land and they're working through the construction of that process. Then

simultaneously when we were trying to release bids for An Street Park, we identified that our overlook outlook platform is requiring a drill rig to come in. The drill rig is currently scheduled for 20

November. So the drill rig has to come back up the street where the construction work is occurring to stage and get in to drill our boring holes. We're also trying to get materials delivered. So we

are utilizing all of these people are working together on a joint calendar which would be TDU Carter at Marine our drilling rig company our staff and Arendal engineering who's trying to help us put

our bid dock sets together so that we can beat or meet our April 15th 2027 grant deadline while simultaneously running water patching streets and trying to put the asphalt back. So, um, I asked for a

challenge and and you were kind enough to hire me and you have not failed to deliver. So, we are moving forward and I'm trying to go as as methodically as possible not to overwhelm you because some of

us um, our eyes may have already glazed over internally. So, thank you for helping us with Wellins because I know that that's going to be well received by the residents. We are gonna try to get

through an eight-day potential closure at Ann and Moore. We are opening up Live Oak at Pine as early as Friday the 13th, which we didn't even want to throw the date out there. >> Um, we know the press

is with us. So, if you do have any specific questions, we're going to try to have everything under our news page. Everything will be shared under all of our social channels. Assistant manager Lewis

indicated, these notices will not only go out with door hangers and and notices, but also we'll push with our text messaging as well. >> So, that was Monday. >> That was Monday. >> That that was just

today. So, um if if you do have any additional questions, I still try to provide the weekly updates that came out on Friday. But um want to say thank you to our staff, our team at Rivers, as well as

our folks that are in the field from Allen and TA loan are trying to get us to the finish line at what we know has been an extremely tedious, long, disruptive, and dusty process. Um, so much so that I

think the number one costume of Halloween 2026 was either a traffic cone, a road closure sign, a combination thereof, or the skeleton of a construction worker who's been on property way too long. So,

we appreciate everybody's humor to it. But we the roads that are receiving the asphalt look fantastic. It's been a long time coming and it should have a shelf life of 15 to 20 years >> is our hope.

Great job. I just don't know how you keep all of those balls up in the air and juggling, but we're so glad that you're at the helm at uh in order to keep that organized and straight and getting us to

where we need to be. And I appreciate you more than you know. >> Any more good news? >> Uh there's more to come down the line, but we just don't want to give it all tonight. >> All righty. Got to save

some for later. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, now we're going to move on to manager uh mayors and commissioners uh comments. We'll start with Commissioner Piccolo. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um,

I guess I want to say uh I guess congratulations to the police department in town uh for Halloween. That was a huge success. It went off without a hitch. No problems. Uh I didn't hear any issues or

problems and I felt that was just a great event managed really well by the uh police department. Um and a fun time for for really everyone in the community. Um, the Lions Club run this past weekend

was also another great event. Thanks to the Backstreet Pub for h uh hosting the afterparty. Another great community event. Um, if you don't if you didn't make it this year, the the bridge run will

happen again next year. It's one of the two bridge runs that are offered in Carter County across the [clears throat] the new bridge um the Verfort Bridge here again over Dallas Channel. Um, and

there's a turkey trot coming up uh this this uh Thanksgiving um hosted um and benefiting Bowford Elementary School, Bowfort Middle School, and the high school. So, if you get a chance on Thanksgiving

Day if you got some time, come out, support that event. You can sign up on Run the East, I'm sure, and um and you know, help contribute and help help support those uh those those schools. Uh they need

every little bit they can get. Um, and then just circling back to chapter 151, I I appreciate the board uh voting to um to table that. I think it's really important that we take our time with that and

get it right. There's lots of details, lots of things that we need to consider. I know that and appreciate the town staff um planning board, planners and so forth for uh spending their time and

reviewing and revising and and making sure that even the AATA sheet is uh you know there's been many revisions to that sheet even after the planning board got it. there were morning revisions after

that and and now there's going to be more visions coming back to us again. And I think it's important to have the documentation in place that's accurate so that the town can see that and then can see

how we're making our decisions based upon that and not rushing it and getting into a place where we're creating undue hardships or putting us in the crosshairs uh and a quagmire for the community. Um

so um I do appreciate uh everyone taking the time with that and not rushing it through. So that's all. Thank you. Okay, >> Commissioner Cooper. Thank you, mayor. Um, I did not get to uh and I know I

said to the chief at the uh meeting before the Halloween that I was looking forward to being there, but you know, plans don't never go right. So, I was not able to attend, but uh people didn't know me

that they didn't see me there. They sent me print plenty of pictures and uh at some point uh I think we may have to move the Halloween party out to Front Street because it's growing so and the number

of people who keep attending. So uh thanks uh to the fire department and to the police department for keeping our residents safe. Um, tomorrow is the uh Marine Corps birthday for all of you Marines

that are in here and and on Facebook URA. >> Thank you. >> As well as on Wednesday is Veterans Day. So, you know, if you see a veteran or know a veteran, please uh give them your thanks. Also, one

last thing is that uh the holiday [clears throat] is coming upon us and there's going to be a great need for a lot of people to uh reach out to the various uh food pantries that is around in the area

uh to help them to have a a blessed uh Thanksgiving and and Christmas as well. So, uh there are a few organizations out there that are doing toy drives. So if you see see one uh fly around in the uh

grocery store or wherever, if you see one, please please uh contribute because there's going to be a a great need uh this year to provide our children with uh toys and to feed them as well. Thank you,

Mayor. >> Thank you, Commissioner Gillicanin. I want to give a shout out to Mayor Harker's porch talks. Maybe it was the last one or the one before last with Rufus Beard. >> Is that it was released

last week maybe? >> Yeah. >> And um he is a special veteran along with several other men who served in the Coast Guard several decades ago. Um Rufus is a close relative of one of our beloved um

menhaden shanty men. He was on a a ship with sever several other Bowfort locals and they went from almost the North Pole to almost the South Pole in one tour and the story is amazing and I would

encourage everyone um perhaps to watch that in honor of Veterans Day. >> Thank you, >> Commissioner Spiegel. >> Uh thank you everyone for participating tonight and everybody online. And I'm just going

to echo my fellow commissioners and just say thank you to all the veterans uh in our country both past and present. And um happy Veterans Day on Wednesday. Commissioner Matthews, >> I think this was

our seventh Halloween living on an street and handing out kids and handing out candy and consistently every year. The children amaze me as to how respectful um they are in trick-or-treating on on Ann

Street. They're well behaved. I mean, it's it's just it's just incredible. So, I want to thank the parents because it is definitely a reflection of those parents as to how those children behave for uh

Halloween. We look forward to it every year and we're looking forward to it uh next year as well. >> And can I just add thank you to all the homeowners on Ant Street that put up with all of us adults

and our kids because you guys um are just great. You're good sports because there are so many of us that come to your houses. So, thank you, Dexter, >> and they do an amazing job and are very

welcoming. Uh, I unfortunately missed this Halloween. I was with my grandson in Virginia, Big Poppy, so we went uh trick-or-treating as well. And Commissioner Matthews, you point out something that I

noticed, too, that a lot of the children were well behaved. Some of them would only take one piece of candy because they would have the warden in the back, which is their mom and dad saying, "You

can't take more than one." and they would look at me and I would say I'm not setting the limit. They [laughter] are. So, you can really have more than two if you allowed it. But that's really a a good

thing to commend the parents for doing a great job. I want to thank the staff for all that you do. You've just heard a tip of the iceberg. These men and women are like ducks. They look like it's

nothing going on up top, but you guys are working really hard underneath. and just to make everything work. We are going to get to a point in time where we're not going to be able to talk about the

roads and it's not going to be the humorous. It's going to have pavement and all those things will come into play. But it comes at the sacrifice from a lot of our residents. I want to thank you each

and every one of you for your patience. Uh, and as we work through getting the things that we know that you want to have in your town at the end of the day, as always, I'd like to thank our

commissioners for doing their homework, for coming in here prepared and making those tough decisions. Uh, you carry with you the voice of almost 5,000, actually 5,000 people because we've been

certified of having a little over 5,000 people into this room to make the best decision for each and every one of them. So, I want to thank you all for that. And you know, I was told that a town is

5,000 and under, right? And then a city is 5,000 and over. Just think about that. Big town city. [laughter] But we will remain a town no matter how many the numbers are going to be in place. But, uh,

we are growing and people are coming into this town bringing good energy and and would like to keep it that way. Um, because we've got a lot to offer. uh and growth is always imminent. So with that

being said, uh the last porch talks will be in December. So I did one with Mr. Beard uh for Veterans Day. If you have not had an opportunity to hear his amazing story, a local leaving here, graduating

from East Carter High School, and his venture as to how he got into the Coast Guard. I won't spoil that, but uh his incredible journey and his career there and how he really feels about Board and

coming home. So, I encourage you to watch that. The last episode, spoiler alert, is going to be with my husband, Mr. Harker. And the reason why I set that up is because our anniversary is in December.

That'll be 44 years. Um, yes. Well, he deserves I don't know who you're clapping for, him or me, [laughter] >> but it was set up that way. And I want to thank each and everyone who's tuned into that

staff who's made this possible. Uh, doing these porch talks is something I've been wanting to do since I became mayor, being able to get involved and hear the stories that make the fabric of our town

so special. And Matt, I want to thank you for bringing that home because it's uh with your effort that this is all possible. So, thank you each and every one of you. So, we've got a close session to

get into. I'm not going to say much more. So, I just need to get a motion to go into close session pursuant to the North Carolina General Statute 143-18 and 11A and 3. >> So moved. >> Got a motion on

the floor. All in favor say I. I. >> All opposed. You still have to stay. >> Thank you very much.