2026-10-14 - Land Use & Transportation Committee

00:04Hey everybody,

00:07it is October 14th, believe it or not,

00:102026, 3:30ish

00:13p.m. Um,

00:16this is the land use and transportation

00:18committee of the Baltimore City Council.

00:19My name is Ryan Dorsy. I'm the chair of

00:21this committee. Uh, I am joined here

00:23today by vice chair of the committee,

00:26vice president of the city council,

00:27Sharon Green Middleton.

00:28>> Thank you, Mr. Chair

00:30>> to my far right, Councilman John

00:31Bullock.

00:32>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:32>> To his left, Councilwoman Felicia

00:34Porter.

00:35>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:36>> And we are joined here by committee

00:38staffer, Julianne Jamont today. Hello.

00:39How are you doing?

00:40>> Good. How are you?

00:41>> She's well, good. I love it. Um, we have

00:43representatives from the mayor's office

00:45and a whole bunch of city agencies. We

00:47only have one bill uh on our docket here

00:50today, zoning grocery stores, council

00:52bill 260220.

00:55Uh I am a co-lead sponsor of this bill

00:57with Councilman James Torrance who is

00:59here with us. Um he and I will uh take a

01:02few minutes to just present the bill to

01:03the committee. Um I am going to uh hand

01:06it over to Councilwoman Middleton uh to

01:10take the chair as uh I step up to the

01:13podium and uh have Councilman Torrance

01:16kick us off here.

01:24Oh, now you spin up here.

01:26>> Hello there. Before we uh proceed, just

01:29want to uh repeat this is bill number

01:322622,

01:34zoning grocery stores.

01:37Um sponsor, council member Ryan Dorsy,

01:40District 3, and Council Member James

01:43Torrance, District 7. And the purpose is

01:48for establishing retail grocery store as

01:51a zoning use, exempting a grocery store

01:55from certain parking maximums, and

01:58defining a certain [clears throat] term

02:00and making conforming changes.

02:04And we're going to start off by the

02:07introduction with uh Council Member

02:11Torrance of the seventh district.

02:14Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be very

02:16brief and to the point. This is about

02:18creating equity within our city. Um, one

02:20of the hardest parts about serving red

02:22line communities in West Baltimore,

02:24North Baltimore, Southwest Baltimore,

02:26Central Baltimore is realizing that um,

02:29redlinining has gone beyond just the

02:31government sector. It's gone down to

02:32banking as well. One of the things that

02:34is in the way of attracting grocery

02:37stores when we think about the math is

02:38not only the unemployment rate within

02:40the mile radius, the average income. In

02:42addition to that, whether or not the

02:43zoning is right for the neighborhood as

02:45well. In addition to that, also looking

02:47at what is the easiest way to get a

02:49truck route. Um, these are all things

02:51that both can and can't be controlled.

02:54One of the things that we can control as

02:56government is zoning to make sure that

02:57we are creating an opportunity for them

02:59to easily get into a neighborhood. But

03:02to give you an idea, even in my own

03:03district, we had to do a lot of economic

03:06development on North Avenue just to

03:08attract a grocery store. At one time

03:10when I first started in office just in

03:12Pen North, the unemployment rate for

03:13black men was 13%. That unemployment

03:16rate had to be lowered to around 5% just

03:18to attract a grocery store. Just to give

03:20you an idea, that is what we're dealing

03:21with. We proved the point with working

03:23with Live Baltimore in terms of

03:25attracting black residents to West

03:26Baltimore directly, marketing to them.

03:29They took us up on it and they pro

03:30proved positive that we can attract

03:32middle-ass black incomes to the

03:33neighborhoods and that raised the

03:34average income. They give you ideas for

03:36some neighborhoods in order to attract

03:38just a simple Aldi, you need $50,000 as

03:41the average income in the neighborhood

03:43or to attract another grocery store like

03:45a give you an idea of a Trader Joe's

03:47$80,000 or Whole Foods around $100,000

03:50along with Wegman's. These are the

03:52things that we have to think about even

03:53just in quality, but also making sure

03:55that our communities can get what they

03:57need. Um, happy to partner with

03:59Councilman Dorsy to remove the minimums.

04:01we're addressing through an amendment,

04:03the 5,000 foot um that planning

04:05commission has alerted us to, but also

04:07realizing that this is about doing

04:09something that is right, but also

04:11getting out the way and defining in the

04:12zoning code what a grocery store is. So,

04:14I'll yield to my colleague.

04:22>> Hi, thank you. Um it's

04:25um I'm like a technical nerd on land use

04:28stuff and formbbased code stuff. So it's

04:31good to have a partner in Councilman

04:32Torrance who uh has sort of the boots on

04:35the ground experience of the actual

04:38impact of uh legislative need and

04:41legislative intent and change. Um

04:44uh I represent a district that doesn't

04:47have 13% unemployment, right? We have

04:50like 80% owner occupied households that

04:53and we have above average income uh per

04:56household. We have very high rates of co

04:59car ownership and all these things uh

05:01equate to something that grocery stores

05:03go. That's a good place for us to be.

05:05Let's be there. And as a result, I have

05:07a district where at the south end of my

05:09district, I have a Safeway and at the

05:11north end of my district, I have a

05:12Giant. And at the uh the northwest

05:16corner of my district, just outside of

05:18the city line, is uh is a a stop uh what

05:22do you call it? A save a lot um or

05:24shoppers rather. Um and and then in

05:27between we have an independent grocery

05:28store, Harvest Fair, and we have uh two

05:31African grocery stores and an Italian

05:33import

05:35um a fish market and and the LLE um you

05:39know, also on the west side of my

05:41district. So just like we have this like

05:43abundance of grocery stores and um

05:47despite this you know every you know

05:49half of my colleagues on the council for

05:51the last decade that I've been on the

05:53council have had uh difficulty with the

05:55lack of grocery stores in their

05:57districts and uh one thing that has been

06:00a common uh issue in how we are able to

06:05approach

06:07the need for grocery stores is the total

06:09absence of even a basic definition of a

06:12grocery store as a land use type in the

06:15zoning code. And so uh you know it just

06:18seems

06:20uh so obvious that you can't address the

06:24zoning related matters uh associated

06:26with a particular type of land use if

06:29you don't even define that land use in

06:31your zoning code. And so this bill takes

06:34the most basic step forward here of just

06:37defining grocery store and then by

06:41defining it separating it from all other

06:45generically enrolled forms of

06:50retail goods establishment. By

06:52separating grocery store, we can have

06:53different land use parameters around it,

06:57separate and different from um from all

07:00other retail good establishments. And so

07:02that's all this that this bill

07:04essentially does is defines grocery

07:06store and then does not strap it with

07:08the same off- streetet parking maximum

07:12requirement or limitation rather that

07:14other retail goods establishments have.

07:17Um that's it. It defines the use and

07:20then deliberately omits it from one

07:24particular table. There are two

07:26amendments in the committee's packet

07:28today. Uh one was noted by uh the BMZA

07:34and one was noted by planning commission

07:37uh members. The one removes a footnote.

07:40The one noted by BMJ removes a footnote

07:44um because retail goods establishments

07:47in transit oriented development areas

07:50are generally limited to not being more

07:52than 5,000 square feet. And I think the

07:54idea behind that is generally in to you

07:57want to pack in as many small uses as

07:59you can and have a lot of reasons for

08:01people to come to that area. And so you

08:03don't want big sprawling kind of big box

08:05kind of stores and things like that

08:06taking up your TOD zones. Um but we

08:10don't want that 5,000 square foot

08:12maximum applied to grocery stores.

08:16Um the other amendment noted by planning

08:19commission is we don't want people

08:22shoehorning in the idea of a grocery

08:25store uh that's some extremely small

08:28thing that's more like a corner store um

08:31just so that they can have a sprawling

08:34parking lot um without any limitations

08:37on the parking lot. So it's actually

08:39more important that we have a minimum

08:41square footage in this. So the one

08:43definition removes the 5,000 ft maximum

08:46and the other uh the other amendment

08:48rather uh creates a 5,000 ft minimum. Um

08:52for reference um corner stores if

08:55they're like an individual like a single

08:58um row home width they're generally

09:01about a th00and square ft for the store.

09:03If it's a double row home with uh corner

09:07store, it's about 2,000 square feet

09:09versus uh a Lidle or an Aldi or a Mom's

09:14or in Charles Village uh the Eddy's.

09:17These smaller scale uh grocery stores

09:21that are not your Safeway Giant or these

09:24really big supermarkets. These smaller

09:26grocery stores tend to be about 10 to 12

09:28to 12,000 square ft. And so 5,000 square

09:32feet as a minimum uh square footage uh a

09:35minimum floor area uh for the use uh

09:39seems reasonable in making sure that

09:41we're uh defining grocery store

09:43appropriately. And so that's what this

09:45bill does.

09:48>> Just

09:48>> any questions for me or Councilman

09:50Torrance?

09:50>> Um I have a I guess an interesting

09:54question. I I wish this bill had came

09:57along a little bit earlier. I um I have

10:01a grocery store in my district that half

10:04basically half the grocery store is uh

10:08smoke shop, tobacco smoke shop

10:11and um sprung up there unexpectedly, you

10:17know, approved without my knowledge or

10:20the community knowledge and um has just

10:24been causing havoc because, you know,

10:27here we had

10:29It took the time to get a healthy food

10:31store and then um I guess the money

10:35wasn't coming in fast enough and they

10:38figured out that they could make money

10:40by adding a smoke shop and this is like

10:43in the heart of Park Heights on Cole

10:46Spring and um of course it's created

10:51even more um illegal activity in that

10:55entire perimeter. I don't know how this

10:59I know the definition is probably going

11:02to help but any comments on that.

11:05>> Yeah. So, Madam Vice President, I think

11:07the definition will help. The reason why

11:09the definition is intentional. It looks

11:11at industry standards. Um uh I make it

11:14easier. It's easier to be visual. So, if

11:16we're walking into a grocery store, you

11:18see two things. Normally, you see the

11:20perishable like fresh fruits and

11:22vegetables in one section. And then you

11:24count the multiple aisles to the right

11:26of you normally, which is probably the

11:28dry goods as well as the potato chips,

11:31the soda, and everything else. The money

11:33is there. Everything else is small

11:35margins, less than literally if I sell

11:38you an orange, I'm only making probably

11:3910 cents off the orange.

11:41>> Um, that is where the math for grocery

11:44stores come in handy. It's both a small

11:47margin portion. I have two actual I know

11:50actually the chain that is allowing

11:52this. Um hopefully this will address it

11:55in a way because it requires a certain

11:57amount of sales. Um but the other thing

12:00is they're probably leasing a small

12:02portion of their property to that person

12:04>> um to be a smoke shop. I think that's

12:06something that we should address in

12:08another bill because I'm now noticing

12:09the same issue and it's the same chain

12:12because those chains are as separate

12:13LLC's.

12:14>> Mhm. and I have two of them where they

12:16both have a smoke shop in there and

12:17they're making up the margins that way.

12:20>> Thank you for that added information.

12:22Any other members on the council have

12:25any questions for the sponsors?

12:28>> I'll just if I can just put a fine point

12:30on this. I think um Councilman Torrance

12:32and I both touched on this, but to put a

12:34real clear point on this uh as the

12:36essential purpose of this bill for

12:38anybody who watches this hearing video

12:42in the future, um

12:45grocery stores are just different from

12:49other business uses. Um I think I said

12:53this in the lunchon when uh the bill was

12:56introduced. It's like nobody there there

12:58there there's sort of an endless list of

13:02things that could exist in a

13:04neighborhood that nobody would ever say

13:06this neighborhood is really incomplete

13:09because it doesn't have

13:11a shoe repair place. Nobody ever says

13:14this neighborhood is incomplete because

13:16we don't have a tax repairer in it.

13:18Right? But for decades, we've gone like,

13:21what do we need to do to bring a grocery

13:24store to this neighborhood? Because we

13:25consider that an essential part of a

13:27neighborhood. And so, while parking

13:30maximums in general are a reasonable

13:33policy to have in place and we've had it

13:36in place for um a long time without any

13:40real problems associated with it.

13:43Grocery stores are the unique use for

13:46which a parking maximum presents a a

13:50repeated impediment to being able to

13:52land that use in a neighborhood that

13:55needs it in order to thrive and be

13:58attractive and be complete and healthy.

14:01And so we would just want to get out of,

14:03you know, restricting this because we

14:05just know that the economics associated

14:07with grocery stores and what uh

14:09particularly chain grocery stores look

14:12for when looking to site a grocery store

14:14anywhere. It includes uh sort of an

14:17exceptional volume of parking

14:20>> and it's one of the hardest businesses

14:22of all the businesses to maintain and

14:25keep and that's probably part of the

14:27shortage. Thank you both for uh

14:30introducing this

14:32and with no further questions to you.

14:34>> Cool. Thank you.

14:35>> We'll move to the next phase.

14:45>> I don't know if you want to comment on

14:48on that piece I said.

14:52>> Um okay. So, thank you, Madam Chair. Um,

14:55we will go to the agency bill reports.

14:58Law department.

15:00>> The law department approves the bill for

15:02form and legal sufficiency as well as

15:04both amendments that were

15:06[clears throat] proposed.

15:07>> Thank you. Um, Department of Finance,

15:10>> Gabriel Stewart here for the Department

15:13of Finance. Uh, we've re reviewed the

15:15report as well as the amendments. Uh, we

15:17do not anticipate a financial impact

15:18from this legislation.

15:20>> Great. Thank you. Uh, do

15:24Barzectic for DOT. Uh we stand by our

15:27report, Mr. Chair.

15:28>> Thank you. Um DHCD.

15:32>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Jason Wright

15:34representing DHCD. We respectfully stand

15:36behind our favorable bill report.

15:39>> Thank you. Uh BDC.

15:43>> Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. Trey Hayes

15:44here from the mayor's office. Uh BDC

15:46stands by their uh favorable bill

15:48report. Thank you.

15:50>> Thank you. We did not refer the bill to

15:53parking authority, but I take it parking

15:55authority has a something to say.

15:57>> Fran Bernzinski with the parking

15:59authority. We have favorable

16:01recommendation for this bill.

16:02>> Thank you, Fran. Um

16:06and and then I'll go to BMCA and then

16:08we'll do planning commission. BMCA.

16:11>> Hey, good afternoon chair. Um Sunny

16:14Boyce for BMZA. Uh we stand by our

16:16favorable with amendment as you

16:19described and uh we also have no

16:21objection to the um other amendment

16:23proposed. Thank you.

16:25>> Great. Thank you. And planning

16:26commission.

16:28>> Uh good afternoon. Emily Mosbball with

16:30the planning commission. Um on October

16:348th following the presentation of staff

16:35report, the planning commission voted

16:37for it to be approved um with both of

16:39the amendments described by Councilman

16:40Dorsy included.

16:42>> Great. Thank you. Um,

16:46committee members, uh, have you all seen

16:49the, uh, sorry, um, Councilman Parker,

16:51thank you for joining us.

16:53>> Councilman Parker, uh, came in while

16:55Councilman Torrance and I were standing

16:57up at the podium. Um,

17:00uh,

17:02committee members, have you seen the

17:04amendments in the packet? They are

17:06immediately following the bill in the

17:09packet. Um the first one is labeled

17:12Dorsy 114 oct 26

17:16and uh it is the one that uh we

17:21mentioned um that adds to the

17:24definition. So the definition centers

17:26generally around uh the grocery store

17:29dedicating at least a certain portion of

17:31its space to um seafood, meats, produce

17:36and other food goods. and that uh the a

17:41substantial portion of the receipts um

17:44uh sales are from those things. This

17:47just adds one other parameter to the

17:49definition saying that the a grocery

17:51store by definition has a floor area

17:54size of 5,000 square ft or greater. Uh

17:58the second one from BMZA on page five

18:00and line 16 on columns two and four in

18:02each instance strike the um the footnote

18:07two which is that uh the opposite

18:11limiting grocery stores to only 5,000

18:14square ft in to areas. So getting rid of

18:17that limitation. Um

18:20I don't see anybody here to testify from

18:24the public. Are there any

18:26just there's nobody here to testify on

18:29this bill. Um and I don't think that we

18:31have anybody online to testify either.

18:34Um

18:37any questions for any agencies uh from

18:40the committee.

18:45Okay. Uh, with that I will

18:50move the Dorsy amendment.

18:54Um, all in favorable in favor of this

18:58amendment say I.

19:00>> I.

19:00>> Oppose say nay.

19:02>> Abstain. Great. This amendment will uh

19:06is voted favorable. Uh, I will now move

19:08the BMZA amendment. Uh, all in favor of

19:12this amendment say I. I. Opposed say

19:15nay. abstain. Okay, this amendment also

19:19is voted favorable. Um I will move the

19:23bill favorable with amendments.

19:27Um and we'll just do a roll call. How

19:29about that? Um the chair votes I. Vice

19:34Chair Middleton

19:35>> I.

19:35>> Councilman Parker

19:37>> I.

19:37>> Councilman Bullock

19:38>> I.

19:39>> Councilwoman Porter

19:40>> I.

19:41>> This bill is voted favorable. Uh we have

19:44five in the affirmative and two absent.

19:47Um and I will note Councilman Blanchard

19:50has a sick three-year-old at home with

19:52104 temperature and Councilman Gray is

19:55at the local progress uh annual con no a

19:59conference with local progress. Um so

20:01out

20:03doing their respective duties. Uh thank

20:05you for um the committee members here

20:08today. Thank you to all the agency staff

20:11for being here. Uh this will bill will

20:13be recommended favorable with amendments

20:15to the council uh at its next meeting on

20:18Monday where I believe we will intend to

20:21double read the bill so that we can move

20:23this along uh as quickly as possible.

20:27We are finished here today. Thank you

20:29everybody.