2026-11-03 - Historic District Commission

Good evening, everybody, and welcome

to the

November 3rd already. November 3rd,

2026

HDC meeting.

Um I'm going to seat [name removed] as a full

member,

and

I'm going to have our secretary read the

public notice of hearing.

>> Uh the Historic District Commission will

hold a public hearing on Tuesday,

November 3rd, 2026 at 7:00 p.m. at the

Groton Town Hall and Town Hall Annex,

134

Groton Long Point Road, and virtually

via Zoom platform to hear the following

applications requesting a certificate of

appropriateness.

The one and only is HDC 26-0079,

Gravel Street. [applicant, owner and parcel details removed].

The Zoom meeting link will be posted on

the town's website meeting calendar.

Application are on file and will be

available for public inspection during

normal business hours at the Planning

Department,

134 Groton Long Point Road, Groton,

Connecticut, dated this 27th day of

October, 2026, Groton, Connecticut.

>> All right, thank you, sir.

I'm going to waive the hearing

procedure, but if anybody would like to

read them, they're on the yellow sheet

on the half-moon table to my right.

So, with that, we'll jump right into our

public hearings

and [clears throat] start with [name removed]

[name removed], Gravel Street.

>> Hi [name removed].

>> Hey everybody.

>> Good evening.

>> Good evening [name removed].

>> Uh share my screen here.

So, I'm here tonight for [snorts]

Gravel Street. And if you recall,

this was a

alteration to an existing garage.

This is the site plan for Gravel

Street. It fronts mostly on Gravel

Street, but it also fronts on Cliff

Street

over here.

And the garage that we're speaking of is

this structure right here down the

driveway.

And

this is what you see from the road.

There's the garage right there.

And this is what you see up close.

So, what we're proposing to do is to

replace these overhead garage doors that

they have right now.

And replace them with a wooden hinged

carriage house door

that will look like

this guy over here.

So, they'll be painted wood. They're

going to be hinged.

More like what traditional doors would

have been.

And then these are glass panels in the

top.

>> And when you say hinged, you're talking

they swing out.

>> Yeah. Yep. So, in the plan you can see

them

here swinging out.

>> I think motorized can Are they or just

you have to manually

>> Well,

you can get the motorized. I'm not sure

if we're going to or not, but we do you

won't see

you won't see any of the hardware if you

we do.

>> I guess so so there's four panels to the

garage door?

>> Yeah, there's a post in the middle

right here.

>> Oh, now I see the post.

>> So, this is a double door and this is a

double door.

>> Got it.

>> And then everything else on this garage

a lot of it has been replaced previously

the siding and the trim.

So, that's really all we plan on doing

at least

pertaining to HTC at this point.

So, that's it. That's all I got.

>> Good stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> Any questions

>> No questions No questions for me.

>> Any questions from the staff?

>> No.

>> All right. Thank you, [name removed].

>> Thank you.

>> Does anyone in the audience want to

speak for the

>> I can barely hear him.

>> for the application?

Anyone in the audience want to speak

against the application?

All right. [name removed] didn't raise her

hand or anything, so

All right. With that, HTC 26-0079,

I forgot to

announce the name at the beginning, but

HTC 26-0079

is closed.

All right.

>> Okay, thanks.

>> We'll now

go to

the consideration of public hearing

portion of the evening and we'll

open it up to the one we just heard, HTC

26-0079.

>> [name removed] makes a motion to approve.

>> Second.

>> [name removed] second.

>> Any discussion from anyone?

Pretty straightforward and pretty.

All right, we'll go to a vote.

>> [name removed] I.

>> [name removed] I.

>> [name removed] I.

>> [name removed] I.

>> All right, HTC 26-0079

is approved.

All right, with that closing the

consideration of public hearings, we'll

jump now to the pre-application review

and

we have Ashby Street on the agenda

already, so we don't need to make a

motion.

And

he's here for with his presentation.

>> Quick question about this. When people

zoom in, can they see this?

>> Um

probably if I switch the camera.

>> I remember from the last presentation

where somebody's presenting to the

screen, nobody could see what

>> Correct, the pointing.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Interesting.

>> Okay.

>> It's good to know in the future.

>> Yeah.

I mean, it's one or the other. It's

either on the table or

or they they broadcast it.

>> And and I think

for actual hearings

and applications, we should

have it probably make it more formal,

but for pre-apps

>> Right, right.

>> More casual.

>> My name is [name removed]. I'm an architect, here on behalf of the owner of

Ashby Street.

And

he's proposing to do renovations and an

addition to this house.

I imagine you're all familiar with where

this is, but here's the

here's the property on part of Ashby and

Glendenning Road here.

Key shown in red is is the addition.

Part of that is actually

replacing an addition that was put on to

this, which is going to be demolished.

Uh rebuilt as part of this new addition

here.

Uh we So, the existing house

was built around 1840.

Um

and tried to get

photos of the house and I he was scanned

through some stuff and talked to the

Historical Society.

And they did have a couple of pictures

from the 1970s, which I haven't been

able to get.

They don't have a scan. I haven't been

able to get over there yet to to see

them, but

anyway, these are pictures of the

existing house. This is the

east-facing facade

facing Ashby Street. Uh this is the

south

facing uh

facade here, and you can see this this

part was added on at some point. Uh the

home right now is set up as a

three-family, so there's two apartments

on the first floor. Uh

the second floor is the same apartment.

The goal is to return this to a

single-family house. Um so, this

this portion here would be coming off

and be part of the the rebuild addition.

This is the north facade here, and then

it's really kind of hard to see the

west side of it. There's This is where

the driveway is. So,

uh you can see there's this

this deck and stair

uh

for access to the second-floor apartment

there. Uh

And then these pictures here are just uh

So, I put the existing house in the

center here.

This is the house to the south, kind of

a

gambrel style. This is across the street

um on the east side.

There's a couple of capes here to the

north. And then this is There's a kind

of a pretty good tree buffer here. And

then this is the house um

on the west side of the property. So,

that's kind of gives you an idea of the

context, kind of a eclectic mix of

of architectural styles.

And so,

on this sheet here, sorry.

>> No, you're fine.

>> Uh this this shows you the existing

floor plan now. There's one apartment on

this side, one on the other side, and

the existing front porch.

So, you know, what we're looking to do

is this this part The you know, the big

original house is basically a square

rectangle. And then this this piece was

sort of these bump-outs were added on

over time. And then this stair going up

to that second-floor apartment. So, that

that part's coming off and then being

incorporated into the addition which

we're proposing to be on the south side

of the house.

And just to show you the

kind of this site plan here. So, this is

this is Ashley Street to the east here.

That's the north. So, you can see um

this red dash line is the existing

footprint of the house. And then we're

coming out

here, proposing to come out here with

the addition and stepping down to patio,

and then this dash line

shows you the setback line.

So, we're keeping this addition within

the setback. There's a small portion

that goes into the side yard here, and

I've reviewed this with [name removed], and

so it's basically replacing square

footage that's already within setback.

In fact, we're reducing the encroachment

into the side yard by by a fair amount

here.

Um

Okay, and then the addition has second

floor

of this addition we're doing sort of a

roof deck. There's great views out

towards the water from there, and then

small bump out in this area here.

And then

I take a look at this.

Um this shows you the existing east

elevation. So, we're

basically trying to keep the

same form and window pattern here with

the exception of this center window. The

house has got vinyl siding on it now.

Um you know, it's it's we're going to

have to actually raise the house up

because of the floor framing is there's

like five different levels of first

floor

Hm. Elevations, and there's it's you

know, it's rotted out. The original

sills are rotted out and the stone

foundation sort of makes brick and stone

and concrete.

Um and it's you know, there's basically

troughs in the in the crawl space for

water to run through. So, we're going to

need some lifted kind of rebuild all

that, but then we're going to reclad

the exposed foundation areas with uh

real thin stone New England fieldstone

veneer.

Um do all new clapboard siding, replace

all the windows. So, essentially

gutting it and reskinning it,

um and trying to bring it back to

to more of what it used to be. And so,

you can see here, this is the addition

coming off to the south side.

Keeping the same window kind of pattern

here. And then this is that sort of bump

out on the second floor where we've got

this sort of balustrade going on at

that.

And if you look here at the south

elevation, you can see the existing

stair.

This sort of piece that was kind of

added on. So, that's coming off and then

this shows you the proposed elevation of

that south side addition.

Um this will open to the living room

here and then that master or primary

bedroom will be

on the second floor.

>> That You can't say master anymore.

>> Uh

So,

and then here you have

existing north elevation. You can see

again that stair on the on the west

side.

Proposed north elevation.

Um

and

existing west elevation here. It's one

that's You really can't see this much

because of the tree buffer to the west.

Um and then here's the proposed

elevation.

Um chimneys are you know

kind of falling apart here. So, we're

replacing them with these two new

chimneys.

Um

one for a gas fireplace and the other

would be for a

uh

It'll be kind of a faux chimney in the

sense that for fireplaces for a energy

recovery ventilation system which

exhausts through there. So,

Um that's basically what we're trying to

do. So,

>> What's the third chimney for?

>> That's existing.

>> No, that's existing.

>> You're proposing to get rid of it,

right?

>> getting rid of these three different

chimneys. Um

and then proposing the two new chimneys.

>> Oh, okay.

But they're going to be masonry.

>> Masonry

>> Did you say you're replacing the vinyl

siding?

>> Yeah, we're Well, what we propose to use

is a

product called shur exterior siding

which is

um

I don't know if you ever heard of this

moral used to be the

>> It's like fly ash right or yeah.

>> Yeah, like fly ash it's 60% recycled.

>> It's nice.

>> It um

looks like wood and it holds up it'll

hold paint for

20 years easy cuz it it doesn't expand

or contract or or check like wood does.

Um so that's what we propose there

the roof and and white white siding

white windows

weather you know, it's still a

fiberglass asphalt shingle weather wood

coloration.

>> And what type what type of windows?

>> Well, yeah, I guess that would be a

question. We're we're looking at an

Anderson A series window which is a wood

window that's got a fiberglass cladding

on it.

Um it's good.

You know, with with the simulated

divided lights with spacer bars in

between so not true divided lights but

it

has that appearance the grills are on

inside and outside

with the spacer bars in between so

um

Now, the same all the trim would be that

moral uh or shur exterior and trim.

Um and white

leaving there's

you know, there's you can't see it here

but there's this sort of a I guess a

sort of like a poor man's Italian maybe

like houses in Italy it's it's not

it's not that grand but it has simple

bracket details that would go up under

the eaves which we'd be

either refurbishing or replacing as

necessary and then the same with the

front porch which has some of that

Victorian detail and we'd just

salvage or reproduce

to have it look like you know, what's

there now. It's

>> And the railing system on the rooftop

extension

the off the primary

is that

um

like some sort of composite or like a

wood?

>> Some kind of wall then you get all

white.

I tried but the balusters match what's

down here on this lower level. So trying

to decide together with that all in all.

>> I think it looks great.

Big big project, wow.

>> I Yeah, it is. I kind of I like the

change of the two over two.

Uh to the two over two from the

You know, we were looking at six over

six. Six over six.

Yeah. We were downtown and that

That might have been, you know, maybe

1870s where that kind of became more

prominent. I don't I don't know, but it

it kind of made the house feel a little

more grand, maybe.

>> Yeah.

>> I like the addition of the windows.

I think it

looks a lot better.

The placement.

>> Yeah, the original windows are

six over

>> Six over six.

>> It's Yeah, they're not original. They're

replacement. That's all it was.

>> Do you have historical photos?

>> Excuse me?

>> Do you have historical photos of the

building?

>> Well, no. I mean I'm going to try to get

those pictures

>> I'm going to try to get those pictures

from the '70s. I don't know what that

will I'm not sure that'll be some sort

of

I doubt it's going to be the the

original.

Uh it'd be interesting to see for sure.

>> Yeah, we we found the

in the

historical museum down the hill from

this spot.

We found the drawings for our house.

>> Was it eighth?

>> Yeah. So, yeah. Try to get there in the

next few weeks.

Who was Who Whose house was it

originally?

1846.

>> Yes.

>> And so you got it.

>> The guys in part of you know, the

the

two-thirds of it has got a 5-ft high

basement crawl space. There's

you know, this portion underneath that

sort of add-on has got some concrete

foundation, but then the

the

the western third is basically built

right on the There's a not even a crawl

space. It's built right on the ground.

>> Huh.

>> So, the intent is to kind of

lift it, clean all that up, re- reframe

the structure for the floor, and then,

you know,

and then put the stone veneer on the

exterior to give them the

kind of the look that has Cuz it is

There is some nice stone on the exterior

now, so

>> Um

He then went to you

So, are they putting any H back kind of

things to see

>> It's all geothermal, so there's

no exterior condensers.

>> So, you're going to drill down the drill

the

>> Goes in the ground?

>> Yeah, we do For something like this,

it's probably, you know, two or three

wells, and we can do them right in the

driveway or on the south side. It's just

kind of a strategy.

>> Without hitting rock?

>> No, you go right through the ground.

>> Oh, right.

>> We call them nuggets.

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah, cuz that

particularly for that reason. Partly

>> [snorts]

>> one is because they don't have the

outdoor equipment to conceal. Right, and

the other reason is it's

We find it like geothermal. If you don't

have outdoor equipment that's exposed to

the elements, and

>> [clears throat]

>> Geothermal

>> It's quiet.

So, it's

>> It's the way to go.

>> I just got to get the

tax credits done.

>> I like it. I just don't like that one

tree on the side on the right there.

[snorts]

>> On [laughter]

on London Road?

>> The one tree? The one bush?

>> Top one?

>> The top one? The pointy one?

>> [laughter]

>> She's kidding.

>> No, it looks good.

>> Looks good. It's good.

>> Oh, it's

So, this

This I mean, I'll just speak I want to

speak for the commission. This looks

great. A lot of positive changes to

enhance the structure, and

a lot of good things environmentally too

that you're doing, but

um just

I'm not sure if you've been before us in

the past.

>> here.

It's been a year.

>> Okay.

I've been on the commission for

six and I've never met you. That's the

only reason I asked, so

um

I would just be very detailed in the

list of um

>> of materials

>> materials that you're you're doing. It's

like the questions you [name removed] was asking

about what's the

what's the window type? What's the

the the railing units and stuff.

So just just

>> We started to call it out here, but

we'll we'll label everything

and I

whatever is on the application.

>> Okay.

Okay.

>> So there So we do a public hearing for

this now?

>> Yeah, just like

>> Yeah, for future reference.

>> future to

>> So there's a lot of trim detail and kind

of

ornamental finishes on that front porch.

Are you going to keep

>> Yeah.

>> most of all of it? Okay.

>> If we have to take that down in the

process of

rebuilding, we will rebuild it back to

its

>> Okay.

>> current

I don't know. We'll clean it up. Just

level it out. We'll fill in and match

the

So and I can put a note to that effect

in

>> Yeah.

>> that we'll restore to

That's fine.

>> And there's an existing picket fence too

on that I guess south side, so it'd be

good to know what the plans are

for that.

>> Cuz it looks like you have a patio going

out.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. The picket fence is

kind of in disrepair.

>> Yeah.

>> Being removed, so the the intent is to

do a

kind of a continuous

Remove that fence and then do a stone

wall that sort like a 2-ft high stone

wall that sort of buffers the patio from

So if you if you if you're familiar with

it, there's a big grand step built up

from Asheville.

And so this will be kind of on that

level built out.

>> Yeah.

And if you are putting a patio down,

that's under our purview, too. So.

Um just the details.

>> Okay. Materials.

That is bluestone except for

>> Yeah. Yeah.

He just hadn't talked about it, but I

saw it on one of the diagrams.

>> Yeah.

>> [snorts]

>> Is the Are the corner boards and window

trim, is that the true exterior of the

>> All of the exterior.

It's like Borol.

>> Yeah.

>> Same. It's super. It's really nice.

>> They had a sample of the name.

>> And we saw a sample last week.

>> It's really good. You can nail it. You

can screw it. It's great.

>> That's

>> Yeah, I mean, if we I mean, PVC was

still as popular, but PVC will expand

and contract a lot more than wood.

>> Right.

>> It's good.

>> And I see the polite on there.

>> Yeah, it's sort of a sort of a

traditional lantern with seeded glass.

>> Again, just

all the details.

But we'd rather have you to

>> We don't do lighting.

>> We don't do Yeah, lights are out of our

single family but

>> But I would add that you may want to

request the specs for the thin stone

that he's proposing.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz you guys usually look at that pretty

close.

For like really authentic authenticity.

As opposed to some of the stuff that's

out there that's really

>> New England Boston when it's true stone.

>> Yeah.

>> There was a house on River Road that

went up

down in our jurisdiction, I think that

it's the same with thin stone, but it

looks thin because the mortar the

grouting isn't done.

>> Yeah, no, it's a really good They

actually They actually make

They make corners, true corners out

>> They saw them out of a block. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like the you know the old stuff

that cultured stone.

>> Yeah. They just

>> That That actually like fades over the

time, too. So So it's real real stone.

So I can bring cut sheets.

>> This house is great, but the thin stone

kind of gives it away.

>> Yeah, you you'd never know

that this one when you put that stuff

on, so

>> And the detail for the chimney and the

cap and all that, just what what that's

going to look like. The rendering looks

good, but just so we have the detail.

>> Call out the brick. It's Continental

Autumn Blend and and the caps and the

stone. We'll We'll put it out.

>> Yeah, probably the same. Okay.

On project

>> What's your timeline?

>> Construction?

>> Yeah.

>> Uh probably

next

>> November?

>> Yeah, and I'd I think probably later in

the fall. They're still working on the

building.

Uh

at least once a month or two, I think.

>> They have a development

>> They have a project.

>> Mhm.

>> Yes.

>> It's a great location.

>> House leaks.

>> Lot of work to do.

>> [name removed], you all set?

>> I'm all set.

>> I'm all set.

>> I'm good. Yeah, thank you.

>> You all set?

>> [clears throat]

>> Yeah, I'm good. Thank you.

>> All right, good.

>> Thank you.

>> Thanks a lot.

>> Was that

>> Feedback clear from your perspective?

You You good?

>> Yeah, and you need the application 2

weeks before your next meeting.

>> So Thursday of this week.

>> Yeah.

>> May is Tuesday.

>> You want to be on November 16th.

>> Yeah, so

So we're

>> Or December 1st is the next meeting.

>> That's your

>> Yeah, okay.

>> Yeah, December 1st, I'm sorry. So

>> Do you guys prefer in person or Zoom?

>> Uh for this, I would say you probably

want to come in person.

>> recommend

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, and we'll we'll broadcast it. So

anybody who is watching by Zoom can see

all the details as well.

>> And

this was great, but as I don't know if

you saw when it was up on the

up on that screen, which is what the

public sees.

If the if you could

figure out a way to put it on this desk.

>> Cuz I I can I will camera it.

>> See this camera.

>> And it will And it will project it up

onto the screen there.

>> So that way

>> I can bring it on a flat screen to bring

it on a flat screen.

So

>> Well, no.

Like those

pictures just one by one.

>> That's the camera right there.

>> That's the camera up there.

So

that's my suggestion.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Any other

>> Thanks, [name removed].

>> No other pre-apps on the line, right?

>> I don't think so.

>> Just old business.

>> Don't expect it to be this quick.

>> That's right.

>> [name removed].

>> Hold on.

>> Please.

>> I should have known better.

>> [laughter]

>> This is going to be the quickest

meeting.

>> Uh

>> That's Whenever we say that it

>> [name removed]

>> You know, right?

>> You don't have rescues.

>> Yeah.

>> Sorry, [name removed]. I didn't realize you were

going to want to do a pre-app, too.

>> [name removed], you mute You're muted.

>> [name removed], what's the address?

>> River Road.

>> Okay. [name removed] makes a motion add 99

River Road to the pre-app.

>> [name removed] second.

>> Any discussion?

Let's go to a vote.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> So River Road is added to his the

agenda tonight.

>> Um

I've been before you guys with on this

one numerous times now.

Um but there was a small oversight that

I want to clear up, and that is the

front door

uh

assembly here.

The owner wants to replace the door

because it's all falling apart.

And in my drawings here, I had noted

um

proposed new entrance door and side

lights.

And when I did this drawing, we didn't

really show the door that's there

properly. I'm showing a six

uh

six-panel door.

And what it really looks like is

Got a picture here somewhere.

Can you see this okay?

>> That's existing?

>> That's a photo of the existing door.

>> Okay.

>> So, it's got a half light in the top,

and then it's got this stained glass

panel that's tacked onto the inside.

And the owner wants to replace this door

with something that looks similar. So,

we've got the they found this other

door.

That looks like this.

>> Will they do the door or the

panels around the door as well?

>> All the um trim around the door will

remain.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Or it'll be replaced or

it or it will remain. It depends on the

when we pull out the door itself,

how much of it gets pulled off and what

condition it's in.

But we will put it back just the way it

looks now.

And going back to that door picture

that they're proposing is this.

Uh I told them I wasn't wild about the

stained glass look in this house, but um

this is what they're hoping for.

>> I'm with you. and I'm not wild about

this stained glass, but that's

>> It's more personal than historic.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm the same way.

>> Yeah, I'm not

>> It's not really doesn't really go with

the rest of the house.

>> No, no.

>> Exactly what I was thinking.

>> Yeah, it's

>> Yeah, it's more Victorian.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I told them I'd try, but uh

>> [laughter]

>> Maybe there's some Maybe there's

something that works with the character

of the house that

somewhere in between.

>> Yeah, okay.

All right.

>> Yeah, I'd I'd love to see other options

for the door.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

>> The half panel is not the issue in any

way, shape

>> Yeah, the glass

The glass is the problem.

>> The concept of

>> is okay.

>> The glass is

>> designing and

>> Just that design is

>> Yeah, okay.

>> It's such a prominent

part of the house too when you drive by

that

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> All right, I will take that lead and

come back with some other suggestions.

>> Can I just ask a question for clar- Are

you opposed to the leaded glass look or

is it just the patterning of of the pane

that's there?

>> Me, it's the leaded glass. Like the

>> Cuz that will give him direction as to

what what where he should be looking.

>> It's like all the little white the wires

is not the right term, but you know, all

the lines

>> All the panels

>> All the panels

>> All the panels that the leaded glass

creates.

>> yeah.

>> Okay, I just

>> Yeah, I

>> It's too busy. It's just not

>> It's from another period of

>> Exactly, it it just doesn't fit.

>> Yeah, no.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Or they could get a clear They could get

a clear glass door.

>> And then hang it something on the inside

of the door.

>> That would be

That'd be nice.

>> Yeah.

>> Clear glass.

>> They could hang that stainless thing on

the inside of the door again if they

wanted.

>> Correct.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. As another option. All right.

All right.

I'll come back with something.

>> All right.

>> We'll see you then.

>> Come back.

>> This application, did we approve

the door?

>> Well

>> This be a new application?

>> he explained No, we you can do it under

modification. I would tell you I would

recommend just do it under modification.

I think he [name removed], I think he explained

how you presented it originally.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yep. Okay.

>> So a modification, I would would I need

to do an application or not?

>> No, I wouldn't I wouldn't I don't think

you we could group it into the prior

approval for all the other stuff you

did.

>> Correct.

>> Do a do a one visit modification under

old business for the door only.

>> I was going to say we just do it under

old business and add you to the agenda.

>> All right. That'd be great.

>> Unless you talked to [name removed] and got her

to put you on the agenda.

>> Yeah, if we know you're coming, we can

put you right on the agenda for it under

old business.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> All right.

>> Sounds good. Thank you. I appreciate

your input, guys.

Anything else?

>> Thank you, [name removed].

>> [laughter]

>> Thanks, [name removed].

>> All right. Take care now.

>> Okay. Good night.

>> Good night.

>> Is

um [name removed] a staff member or is she

just a community

>> No, she is Hold on. Let me get him I got

him off.

[name removed] is

>> attendees?

>> She's uh old business. She's high three.

>> Oh, she is.

>> We're going to we're going to let her

talk. She's going to go We at old

business?

>> Well

>> No, we're at old business minutes and

then I'll I'll I'll uh go vote her.

>> We have to do public communications

going on.

>> Very simple, actually.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh I just

didn't want didn't know if she was a

pre-app, but okay.

All right. So there's no other pre-apps

that need to be added to the agenda. So

that will be We'll close the pre-app.

Go to public communications.

>> I I nothing.

>> Any

commission member have anything from the

community

they want to share?

>> Nope.

>> All right.

Next we'll move

on from public communications to the

approval of the October 20th meeting's

minutes.

>> Did you guys read the minutes by any

chance?

>> I had not taken a look at them, but I

was

>> So, before I make a motion, the one

thing

and the cuz several people asked with

the water

>> street

>> about the size of the building compared

to the lot

and you know, that's important

information. That's not captured in the

minutes, so

>> I'm the one that asked it.

>> Yeah, and I think it it came back again

later in the So, I think it'd be good to

have that added that, you know, the

commission asked for information about

the size of the building compared to the

lot size.

So, So, okay, so

>> Why don't we not vote on the minutes

today and ask [name removed] to revisit the

recording and find that information and

add it up to the

>> I think we can add something in regards

to lot coverage. The question was

>> Yeah, the lot coverage.

>> That was discussed. It should be in both

the minutes.

>> Too much

>> No, no,

not at all. That's that's fine.

>> Okay.

So,

I make a motion to delay the approval of

the minutes

with the recommendation that the

lot size um

lot covering of the

>> the building size

>> is

appear in the minutes.

All right.

So, that's my motion.

>> Second.

>> All right, [name removed] second. Any

discussion?

All right, vote.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed],

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> Okay, so the approval of the minutes is

pushed back till that part is added.

Continue, sorry.

All right, so now we can now go to old

business, which is High Street.

Oops.

>> And there we go.

>> [name removed]

>> Oh, [name removed].

>> [name removed], can you hear us?

>> Yeah, hold on. She's

>> Oh, sorry.

Good evening, [name removed]. Can you hear us?

>> Hi, you guys. Um

can you hear me?

>> Yep, we can.

>> And see you.

>> Yep. Oh, great, cuz I

>> [laughter]

>> Fam Oh, there you are. All right.

[personal remark removed]

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah, we

>> Yeah.

All right, yeah.

It's uh it's it's it's amazing how

quickly you become your grandmother, you

know?

>> [laughter]

>> But uh anyway, so as you Hi, everyone.

As you may recall, I have a very steep,

narrow, and windy driveway that um and

you all approved some uh driveway

modifications several weeks ago.

Um along with

two sets of steps. Um

various things. One was One set was

being filled in, one was being created.

All of that has been going extremely

well. Looks very historic. It looks very

consistent. Um where we need some

modification modifications to the

modifications, I guess.

Um is you know, once we started digging,

um we realized there were you know

It's uh there's a lot of very loose rock

under my uh

significant rock wall. So, instead of a

at the bottom of the driveway, instead

of an 8-in antique granite curb,

we we're going to need to do a 20-in

high um antique granite wall.

retaining wall.

Um and I submitted some photos. Um and

then at the top of the driveway, the

mason wants to add some um retention

boulders. Um

and again, it's just because of what we

found, you know, what was underneath the

earth and all of that. And I think we

actually think adding the retention

boulders will make it look

will soften the whole curb, will soften

the antique granite. Will actually look

a little bit more natural anyway.

Um so I see that as a positive. Um and

then we wanted to extend

um I don't know if you if you recall,

but the commission had asked that we

look at

um taking some of the side stones and

using that to fill in the wall that's on

the street.

Which we did, which was a great

recommendation.

Um but what that did then was where

we're stopping the granite curb, it just

doesn't make sense. And we want to

extend it um

further. So um I've actually I submitted

the photos. I don't know where they

>> I can't find them. It's in the

>> It's in the agenda suite.

>> Yeah, I have it.

It's at the bottom.

>> Oh, okay.

>> And then the very last thing that I'm

that was just an idea that came to me

was, you know, as I'm coming out of my

garage, it still feels like you're going

right over the cliff. Like cuz there's

nothing visual to to help you

that indicates there's a you know,

that's where the end of the the the

driveway is.

Um was to add some antique bollards,

metal bollards with the chain in between

just as a visual aid.

As opposed to a driveway reflector, you

know, like a plastic reflector or

something like that.

>> Yeah.

The the 20-in tall granite

curb, is that one accomplished with one

piece of stone or is it stacked?

>> um

Well, he so we're trying to mirror the

the wall that's get that's above it.

That's our existing wall. So it'll

probably be it'll probably be a mix of

irregular stones.

>> Okay. Yeah.

And that's as you get closer to the

road.

>> Correct. Correct. What we realized is

that it was just the it's such a steep

bank. What we realized it's it's really

just the hydrangeas that are keeping the

dirt and the rocks in place and

obviously that's just not going to work.

>> Yeah.

So this is the the the blue dotted line

is the 8

in granite curb.

>> Yeah, which we originally approved and

then they want

>> purple

>> We want to extend it. Correct.

>> extend. So it's extending the granite

curb.

There's the retention boulders and then

there's the

the the bollard post and chain on top of

that curb. Does that bollard and those

bollards and chains that go the entire

>> No, just the top. Just the very top.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So those three. Okay.

So the I'm sorry.

The blue

>> And what I don't think actually I don't

think for some reason there's no photo

of the 8-in or the 20-in high wall where

at the bottom. I think that for some

reason I don't know why that's missing.

>> Yeah, that's what I was That's why I

said it was I wasn't

>> But that that's that's also in terms of

length it's going to be shorter

because we want to mirror the wall

that's above it.

>> Mhm. So the 20 the 20-in wall, what is

what is that made of?

Granite you said?

>> It's granite.

>> Yeah.

>> Antique all antique granite. Yeah.

>> Is it

>> And unlike the curb, I mean the wall

will be different from the curb. The

curb will you know it they're kind of

longer thinner pieces.

But the wall will be irregular to mirror

the wall like I said to mirror the wall

that's above it.

>> And and that transition is around that

staircase which was is removed.

The transition from the curb to that

granite

>> wall

>> Yeah.

>> It's

>> actually on the other side of the

driveway. It's on the house side.

>> Oh, see this is the

new steps that are being the new steps

that are being rebuilt.

>> right. Do you have a photo then? Yeah,

if that's not in our packet. Yeah.

>> That's

I'm sorry. I I

I'm confused.

>> No, I was I mis- misinterpreted as well.

>> So I

I'm not trying to be a pest with it if

with these questions.

>> So

>> No.

>> On the submission

it where it says 8-in granite curb, I

get that that's now going to be a 20-in

granite wall.

Right?

>> Yeah.

>> And then what

>> Oh, wait. So sorry, say that again.

>> No. I don't think that's right.

>> Okay.

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> No, stop So for stop for a second and

and orient yourself. There's two There's

two things she's proposing to alter. One

of them is as you're coming down the

driveway, you're taking your curb.

There's she put a gran- the granite

curbing

along the edge of that driveway. She's

Now that those stairs have come out and

the cap that was on those stairs, she

wants to extend that down further.

Okay? Now as you're going down the

driveway on your left-hand side, they're

rebuilding the new steps that are coming

off the front. She wants to add a

retaining a small retaining wall the

20-in retaining wall. I'm guessing from

approximately where the stairs are or

does it terminate at the stairs?

>> Uh right around the stairs, I think.

>> Right. And then that will it So you're

going to you switch sides of the

driveway. Now you're on the it would be

the driver side of the driveway as

you're going down. And as that curves

and and and kind of transitions into

High Street, that's where she's

proposing

a little bit more retainage with that

wall that that you described. Okay.

>> And I can I'm happy to share a photo,

too, if you like.

>> Yeah, if you could please

>> Yeah, please.

>> Yeah, it's it's two different things, so

>> Yeah.

>> I'm sorry though.

>> No, no, that's fine.

>> No, I was I was completely

>> No, I'm sorry. I apologize for that, but

let's see. Um

>> And the and the the

what I guess is this ball and chain

>> [laughter]

>> Um

>> The way you put it that way.

>> I'm going to

That's Is that going on top of the

>> Okay, so do you see that?

>> Yes.

>> Okay, so you see the new steps. Uh

>> They look great.

>> They look great.

>> Thank you. I'm so excited. So, the the

where we had hoped to put another curb

was to the right of those stairs where

those hydrangea bushes are.

>> Mhm.

>> Um but what we found was actually the

mulch, you know,

you know, year after year the

landscapers just put more mulch on

there.

And so, we found that actually that's

the

driveway is wider than we thought by

about 8 to 10 in. It's just covered in

mulch. So, the bank where the hydrangeas

are is extremely narrow and rocky.

Um and

I mean, those hydrangeas are I don't

know how they they've lasted this long.

And the wall itself above the

hydrangeas, it really it terminates

right at the edge of the mulch. So,

there's really just loose rock under

under what you see.

Um if that makes sense. So, the idea is

to just shore that up.

Um

>> So, using your white cursor, see the

white cursor on

>> That might be

>> Is that our cursor?

>> Yeah, that might be ours.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah, I think

So, she's

>> So, so

>> Yeah, can

>> Yeah.

>> Uh okay.

>> Oh, she's drawing. Okay.

>> Yeah, right there.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like that. And so, it's so it's

almost parallel. Initially, we were

going to curve it along, you know, along

with the driveway,

but in some ways it just doesn't I'm not

sure that that makes sense anymore. Um

because we need we we need to actually

shore up this area.

>> [name removed], if I can just interrupt, see this

wall right here, gentlemen?

>> Yeah.

>> This wall, the bottom of this wall as it

comes down,

it's essentially the structure or or the

construction of it terminates and it's

like it's just loose and stony and

gravelly underneath that. So some

retainage out in front of this will

allow this to get built up and it would

kind of go back to that wall and secure

the base of that wall.

>> And how far down does that green line

go?

>> So that would be about um

So let's see. I had that

>> Is it going past the solar light?

>> Yes, it is.

It is and that's

>> It's going to be dug out right there

now.

>> parallel to the wall.

>> And that's the 20 in inches?

The 20 in wall part?

>> Yeah, yeah, that's approximately 20 in

inches.

>> wall, it's going to be about 35 ft long.

>> 35?

>> Yep.

Yeah.

I'm happy to show you other pictures too

that of the other you know, whatever you

need.

>> So it's going to look similar to the

wall, the existing wall that's going to

be behind it?

>> Correct.

Correct.

>> Is it going all the way to the big cedar

tree that's near the high street?

>> know. I don't think that I don't it

won't go that far. It won't go that far.

>> It's 35 ft.

>> I will say the mason was a little dis-

was bummed because you know, a curb

would have been a whole lot easier than

a wall for him.

>> Looking at that picture, we're looking

at a picture from like Google Street

View. There's a lot of

like

shrubbery.

Is it going in front of the shrubbery?

>> Actually some of the shrubbery, the

hydrangeas, we had to take out.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. If that's what you're talk- if

that's what you're referring to.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, hydrangeas. Yeah, yeah, it's the a

edge of hydrangea.

>> Yeah.

>> And like the world's biggest hydrangea

behind it.

>> Yes.

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah, there is some awkward sloping

>> Yeah.

>> towards the driveway as you get down

towards the bottom that this is likely

to blend in correct.

>> Is it going to tie into the existing

taller

wall? Or is it going to just going to

>> No.

>> right in front of it?

>> Is it going to tie tie to the steps?

>> Well, it

um

I'm not sure to be honest. It might be a

few inches away or we're trying to he's

trying to figure that out where it's you

know, but I yeah it probably will be

next to the right next to the steps.

>> Okay. So, it's that retaining wall

>> So, that's 20 in with with nothing on

top.

Correct?

>> Well, 20 So, what would be above the 20

in the 20-in wall?

>> Yeah.

>> I'm going to put in other plants,

smaller plants.

>> No, no. I'm saying that wall doesn't

have a ball and chain.

>> No, no, no, no. No. Only only at the

curve at the top.

>> The the lower

>> It'd be a build that would be graded to

the top of that wall.

>> Yeah.

>> It it would be graded. It wouldn't be

like a free-standing wall.

It's going to be a wall and then the the

grade will go from the top of the wall

back up to the bottom of that existing

wall.

And then blend in and then blend in to

the grade as it goes down the driveway.

>> Thank you. You're much more articulate

with this than I am.

>> [laughter]

>> I've been driving by and looking at it

and I

I have a pretty good

uh concept of what they're trying to do

there.

>> Three changes. That that retaining wall,

the extension of the curb. Actually four

changes. That retaining wall, the

extension of a curb on the other side of

the driveway,

the retention boulders,

>> and the ball and chain.

>> And then the ballards and Ballard chain

was ballard.

>> Can we call them ballards instead of

ballard chain?

>> [laughter]

>> Ballards.

>> Ballards.

>> Yeah, so yes, so four different changes.

>> Okay.

>> Good.

>> I I have no problem with any of them.

>> The only one with some make up

conditions.

Anyway.

>> I know it's probably tough to paint but

I like I said I've driven by it a few

times and I think if you're able to

stop if the retaining wall is going to

prevent you from having to fight that

grade as it blends to the driveway.

That step that goes up on that to that

retaining wall it's going to blend that

whole thing all the way around that

corner. Remember I don't know if you

remember when she did that thing at

pre-app where she was talking about

putting a parking space down the bottom

there.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> It's kind of like it it's kind of burmy

and it's kind of

>> Yep.

>> it rolls a little bit. It's going to

take that burm area and it's going to

roll it right up behind that retaining

wall and blend it right around.

The the wall's not going to be

like this build. That's what you're

worried about. You know, it's probably

more than just a single stone.

But it's um

Yeah, yeah, you'll probably have I'm I'm

I'm guessing it's probably going to be

at its at its highest point probably

that much showing.

Based on the

couple of times I've driven by and

looked at it and it's probably going to

blend it's probably as it goes up

further up the driveway it's going to

probably going to diminish.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah.

>> So it gets stepped.

>> And [name removed], have you seen the um where he's

filled in the uh stairway?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

>> He did a great job.

>> Yeah.

>> I think so, too. I think so, too.

>> Yep, looks good. Few years of weathering

you won't ever really even be able to

tell that it was altered. Yeah.

>> He's like he's like just put some

exhaust fumes on it and

>> [laughter]

>> Yeah.

>> Where are you?

>> I know.

It doesn't matter where I am.

>> [laughter]

>> I just [snorts] don't

>> I I think they're doing a great job. I

go by there often.

And they're doing a great

>> Thank you. Thank you. I think so, too.

>> I know what you're thinking, boy.

>> I I was really I was sad to see the

hydrangeas go, those bushes. Um but it

just it just doesn't make sense.

>> Put something else.

I think it's good.

It's not 80 in.

So, that's

Yeah.

That's AI generated. So, that's not

actual. That's just to show off the

bollard and the chain.

So, the

>> Cuz I think the bollards and the chain

are so big compared to the wall.

>> And again, yeah, the the mock-up, the AI

generated mock-up was not great. I I

admit. Um

What I'm think What I want is, you know,

slender, yeah, appropriate for a

>> [name removed], how tall how tall do you think the

uh the the poles

that's that the chain goes to and from

will be?

>> Yeah, between 36 and 48 in, I think.

It's huge.

>> What's What are they made of? Are those

iron or

They're iron. You probably want I would

I would recommend you

uh prefer the lower, smaller side. I

think

it would would make it better. Yeah.

>> Agreed.

>> Let you know that you're not going over

the edge. Well, 12 in. This

>> And I don't And I don't anticipate

having more than, you know, three or

four of them at the most. It's really

just at that curve.

>> 2 ft.

>> Yeah.

>> So, that Yeah, that's very high.

>> 48 is too high.

I think a couple feet is good.

>> Yeah, I mean I would say I I would

venture to say that you probably don't

want to exceed 30 in in height on the

pole.

>> Okay.

>> At any chance. I agree.

>> Yeah.

>> 30 in is gratuitous.

>> Yeah, it's fine.

>> Right. But you've got to remember there

is there is between the stone and the

wall, there is some mass there. Yeah.

So, you also don't want to do something

very small and very, you know, you you

kind of want it

in scale with a lot of the

>> To go

>> Right.

>> have something like 8 in which is the

size of a piece of paper.

And then you have

>> Yeah, that's 8 that's 8 in.

Which is right there.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> And then add 30 in

onto that. And it's huge.

In my mind.

>> Thanks. Well,

I yeah. I'm I'm of a different opinion.

I I agree 48 would be way too high, but

30 30 I think would be appropriate.

>> 30 from the top of the 8 in granite

block or 30 in from

>> from grade? Yeah, okay.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm just

That's my opinion.

>> it's too small. It's going to look

foolish.

>> Yeah.

>> But um I wouldn't go over 30. That's

just my opinion.

>> I would say that you you would probably

say not to exceed 30. I would think your

goal would probably the overall height

would be like 24 to 28 and not not to

exceed 30.

>> Mhm.

>> Including the curve?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's going to give you That's going to

give you about this much. And as you're

coming it down the driveway, you'll

>> You'll see that.

>> Yeah.

>> It It'll It'll It'll add

uh

you know,

vision to what you're looking at coming

down the driveway.

>> [snorts]

>> If

you could always come back and put them

higher if they

>> Yeah.

>> look weird or

you know,

I'd say not to exceed 30 in.

[name removed], how far along are you on this and

and when do you when

when do you plan on installing those the

poles and chain?

>> I didn't want to do anything really

until the until the boulders were

installed until it was all really, you

know, cuz I think you really need to do

it

you know,

um

on site. So, yeah, it's I'm to be

honest, I'm not quite sure cuz I don't

know when the mason's going to finish

all of this.

>> Okay.

I mean, would it be would it be possible

for you to maybe put some stakes in and

and like maybe run

>> run a pink ribbon through

>> Yeah.

>> or something like that and do it take

some pictures?

>> Sure.

>> And and maybe you guys can do a

a modification of the lower wall and the

extension of the blocks down the

driveway so they can continue to work on

it and then you can revisit the bollards

and chain.

>> Yeah.

>> If she's willing to do that and get you

some visual details that that could

support what she's doing.

>> Sure. Yeah, and actually, you know, and

I will say with the retention boulders

>> How big are they?

>> The positive to that is that now like

initially

the curb was something that we thought

would just help guide a driver, you

know, you you'd know when you hit it

like or when your tire kind of bumps it.

But with the boulders it's going to

prevent anyone from going over.

It's going to prevent a car because

there's there's substantial heft.

Um

>> Do you have dimensions of those

boulders?

>> Um I don't. Um I can

I can let's see. I can share another

photo.

>> Are you pulling stuff out of the ground

that you're using?

>> Trying to find stuff on my property,

yep.

Uh let's see.

Cuz there's there's one boulder in just

as a

um

to start looking at it.

Sorry, this might take me a second.

>> I think we have one picture. It's

>> You might. I think you might think there

is a boulder the one boulder.

>> Oh, wait. Yeah, we

>> Yeah, you have the red flare right

there.

Yeah. Yeah, we have that.

>> We have it.

>> I do think it'll soften the whole thing

as well and like we don't hope we don't

want to use too many just maybe three to

five, I think.

But that is definitely structural.

>> So, this has to be a modification not a

new application.

>> It's up to you guys. If you feel that it

rises to a new modification, I mean a

new application, you can certainly

recommend that.

If you're not comfortable taking it

like I recommended and and and doing it

in in pieces.

>> it's going to be I have to Can I just

sorry, I'm going to interrupt. It's

going to be really difficult to get him

to

for us to wait another few weeks for

that to happen. Um

with all the machinery. Anyway, it's I'm

happy to wait on the bollards and do a

whole separate application.

But with the boulders I'd I'm really I'd

be concerned about that.

>> Yeah, cuz he's got to keep rolling.

>> Yeah.

And the money the money involved in just

getting him back and yeah.

>> My My contention with the boulders is

everything else is straight lined.

Then you have

these random meatballs.

>> Mhm.

>> Circles.

>> I think it's going to look

I think it will look great actually, but

that's that's

subjective.

>> Yeah, the landscape landscaping will

mitigate it.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah, you absolutely bury all the rocks.

>> They're there.

>> Yeah.

>> I think I think they're fine.

>> I know what you're

>> We do a score search policy.

>> I know.

>> It consistently we can't.

>> I'm I'm fine with it.

So

It's a work in progress, but

So

>> Do we want to follow [name removed]'s lead and

to uh

motion

for everything except the

boulders?

>> Boulders.

>> Okay.

All right, so I'll make a motion. So,

[name removed] makes a motion to modify

um

each DC

26-0069

um

for three items. The addition of boulder

um retention or retention boulders.

>> Three to five.

>> Um

uh no more no more than five retention

boulders.

Um extension of the driveway curbing.

And the

retaining the 20-in retaining wall

on the

>> West.

>> west side of the driveway.

>> That's a motion.

>> That's a motion.

>> Okay.

>> All right, so

>> Or or second.

>> For you.

>> Um any other discussion?

>> I think dealing trying to deal with site

conditions and

shoring up everything to make sure it's

it's good to go for all seasons and

frost thaw cycles and all that. So,

I don't see an issue with it.

>> Any other discussion?

>> Good.

>> All right, we'll go to a vote.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], nay.

>> [name removed], I.

>> So, the

the modification is approved

and

we'll have you come back with

>> Yep.

>> and change for further modifications.

>> Sounds good.

>> All right.

>> Awesome. Thank you.

>> Okay.

>> All right, thanks.

>> Have a good day.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> All right, bye-bye.

>> Bye-bye.

>> So, old business,

modification is complete. Now we're on

to schedule of meetings.

>> So, that should that that should have

been changed the dates and

>> a couple of questions

>> updated

>> cuz there was

>> Yep.

>> They're good.

>> last time, so all good.

>> Yep.

>> Yes, sir.

Um yeah, [name removed] makes a motion to

approve the 2027 regular meeting

schedule.

>> Second.

>> [name removed] second, any discussion?

All right, go to a vote.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> [name removed], I.

>> All right.

>> If I can just add to that, too, if it

there's ton of applications or there's a

lot of activity during that part time,

we can always do a special meeting and

and and handle the workload.

>> Right. And I would

defer to the staff to letting me know,

saying, "Hey [name removed],

we just got I'm picking a number, 22

applications.

>> Yeah.

>> We'll discuss it with the staff.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm just

I'm just picking a number, but

>> Yeah.

>> then I can

>> Yeah.

If we don't do a special meeting, the

next regular meeting is going to be

swamped.

>> Right.

But aren't I supposed to call a special

meeting, or does the

>> Yeah, I I I would request you do.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, if you

let me know that scenario has popped up,

then I can call it, and we can move

forward.

>> Got you.

>> All right.

Any new business?

>> I have one

quick thing

Um

So, this is a general question.

So,

let's say there's a

restaurant downtown that has columns,

and they hire somebody to put up

white lights on that for for the holiday

season. Do

Do they need to come before us?

>> I don't think so. I think holiday

decorations are exempted.

>> Okay.

>> I'm pretty sure they are.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, if you look in your exempted

items, I believe temporary holiday

decorations. Yeah.

>> And what's what's the definite I thought

30 days was temporary. Is that the

definition of temporary?

>> Halloween

Yeah.

>> Or the town does Does the town do things

over the street, too? Lights, or

>> They do. Well, this Chamber of Commerce

does it actually, and so

>> And they're definitely up there more

than 30 days.

>> Yeah.

I don't know. I just

I was told that someone was hired to

put up the

white string lights on the columns

coming up. So,

>> On the columns on the street lights?

>> Uh street No, columns of uh

>> On the columns of the restaurant?

>> A building of a building.

That we already asked them to take down.

>> Take down, right.

Um

There's There's lots of

buildings with

holiday lights

>> Yeah. No, I'm

>> Yeah, all year round.

>> The lights up I'm not like I'm just

saying, what's the definition of

temporary?

>> Yeah. I'd have to I'd have to look and

see if they do do some kind of a for

Christmas time frame for

>> I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

That I'm fine with.

>> I can look into look into it and see if

there's I don't think there's anything

that defines

um temporary or holiday period in the in

the handbook.

Um but there might be something in the

zoning

>> Okay.

>> that kind of would supersede that.

>> I mean I'm not against the concept but

keep it festive. Let's go I'm all about

this stuff.

>> She's got to go look right there.

>> in September green and

red, white, blue and red, white

But anyway

>> Are holiday lights under the exempted

items?

>> Well,

I'm not seeing

anything that says exempted.

>> It's at the end of it's the second um

So you have the the items that are

regulated and then the items that are

>> No.

>> They're not They're not in that They're

not on that list?

>> No.

>> Huh. I thought they were For some reason

I thought they were.

>> Temporary signs, temporary structures

but it's yeah real estate signs,

construction signs, political signs,

event banners.

Event tent structures, construction

equipment.

>> Huh.

>> Yeah.

This is

>> I just I saw it's my mistake. I thought

I thought they were exempted.

>> They're trying to be proactive with some

>> I'm not seeing anything.

>> talking to me about them.

>> Huh.

So what's the what's the what's the

commission's uh overall take on

>> It's Christmas. Let them do it.

>> Christmas lights, holiday lights,

however you want to categorize it.

>> December 1st to January 15th

>> But if they're still up in March, that's

a problem.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> That's what I mean.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> December 1st to January 15th is holiday

to me.

>> Yeah.

>> So they're they're up but not turned on

or what's the what would be the

policy?

Yeah, um

>> Illumination.

>> Nothing really. Just up.

We just even if they're not turned on.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes, they are.

>> Some may want to go before December 1st.

They might want to decorate before

Thanksgiving.

>> That's right.

>> But

>> Yeah, more or less.

>> You know, Home Depot's got the stuff in

there already.

>> Oh god, yeah.

>> [laughter]

>> Let me look into it a little bit

further, [name removed], and see how it's

historically been

Yeah.

>> came to my attention

>> Right.

>> Saturday and

I'm like I don't want to sound like a

Scrooge. I'm supportive of it, but I

don't want them up.

Like they're saying, "Oh, it's the

holiday season." But here we are, like

you said, February, March, April.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> up.

>> Certainly. Yeah.

[remark about a private property removed]

>> Always, yeah.

>> Uh This that that would be great if you

>> I'll look into it a little bit and see

how it

been historically dealt with. If anybody

takes any action on it.

It is There are

uh

depending on

It gets sometimes it gets to a fine line

with religious exemptions and religious

rights. Right. Da da da, there's some of

that that comes into play. So, sometimes

it's

uh

touchy subject to deal with.

But we can look at it and see if there's

some kind of parameters that

>> Yeah, yeah. I'm not I am

I didn't think of that.

>> Yeah.

>> Obviously, you know. But I that's not

even like the road I'm going down. Going

on the historic

>> district the streets.

>> Yeah, yeah. I know.

>> Going on the historic visual aesthetic

>> I get it.

>> of the his

>> Yeah.

>> the historic district. I'm not talking

religion.

>> So, if we have an application that has a

lot of attention from

a neighborhood.

How does one go about having a special

meeting as opposed to

them coming to a regular meeting?

>> Uh well, depending on well, we can

weigh what's going on with the

application

and determine if it rises to the point

where we feel it it's going to be a long

meeting, it's going to have a lot of

input, and I can talk to [name removed] and [name removed]

can determine if he wants to put it on a

special meeting.

>> how that went cuz I did send an email. I

don't know if you know.

to

>> [name removed]

>> No. Who's Who's the

[name removed]?

>> [name removed]?

>> [name removed].

>> Oh.

>> And she got back to me. She said, "We'll

take it into consideration if

necessary." I was just wondering what

the guidelines were to do something like

that.

>> It's It's

It's It's kind of an as needed.

Um you know, kind of like

uh

with the with the application that we

had the pre-application and before

um based on the turnout from the

pre-application, uh if that was going to

be on on a regular agenda or a special

meeting, I was going to get a bigger

room.

>> Exactly.

>> Back that that we'd take those kind of

steps to try to accommodate the the

application.

>> Okay.

>> So, certainly, yeah.

We'd look at it on a case-by-case basis.

>> And I I mean

and we could also look at the agenda

for that if there's seven items on the

agenda plus that one

>> one poor guy had to wait a couple hours

>> Yeah.

>> for a very quick

>> Right.

>> Right.

>> So, I just wondered

>> Understood.

Well,

>> That's all.

[personal remark removed]

>> Well, all right. Let me go back to the

agenda.

All right. So, any other

>> You okay?

>> I'm I'm I'm

>> That and a ball and chain. You're just

so sensitive.

>> Ball and chain.

>> Just trying to add a little levity. So,

I couldn't

Um

>> I couldn't find another word.

>> Um so, any other new business?

>> Anyone else?

>> Nope. Then we will adjourn at 8:07

uh 8:16 p.m. on Tuesday, November 3rd,

the Historic District Commission meeting

is now