2026-10-08 - City Council (special)

00:12Good evening everyone. Welcome. It is

00:145:34. We're already a little bit late.

00:17Um today is Thursday, October 8th, 2026.

00:21We're here for a special city council

00:23meeting and we're here by call to order.

00:27Um, we'll start with some meeting

00:29logistics and remote instructions.

00:32Please display your first and last name

00:34if you are joining us remotely. When you

00:37are speaking, state your name and where

00:39you live, whether you're online or in

00:41the room, please keep your comments uh

00:44to the allotted time. In this case, we

00:46will only have general um we'll we'll

00:49have general public comment, which will

00:51be 5 minutes. So, everyone has the

00:53opportunity to speak. If you have

00:55several questions, please try to ask

00:57them all together. Please focus your

00:59comments on the agenda item under

01:01discussion. Uh direct your remarks

01:03towards policies, decisions, and ideas,

01:06not individuals. Please avoid making

01:09comments about a person's character or

01:11intent. And please wait to be recognized

01:13by the mayor before speaking. and follow

01:16the rules of the procedure. Rules of

01:18procedure included in this agenda packet

01:20and linked in the online thing which

01:22guide how the meeting is conducted and

01:24may be applied as needed to maintain

01:26orderly discussion. We don't have any

01:29aspirational times on this agenda so we

01:32will leave that off. Um,

01:35and as it is a special meeting, we are

01:37going to forego the uh the ever

01:42inspirational quote that everyone loves

01:44so much. Thanks for the laughs.

01:46Appreciate that. So, on to item number

01:48three to approve the agenda. If there

01:52are no objections, we will approve the

01:53agenda with unanimous consent. Scanning

01:56the room. Seeing no objections, the the

01:59agenda is approved through unanimous

02:02consent. Um, we will now open the floor

02:06for general public comment. At this

02:07time, any member of the public may speak

02:09on any topic for five minutes. Is there

02:13first, let me just see if there's

02:16there's anyone online.

02:19Okay. Is there anyone in the room that

02:20would like to speak on any topic

02:23[clears throat] for five minutes? Seth,

02:26sorry, I don't know your last name.

02:27>> Oh, my name is Seth Collins. I live in

02:30Berlin, Vermont.

02:31>> All right. I'd like to Mr. Collins,

02:33please come forward. Thank you.

02:36>> It um it has come to my attention that

02:39uh recently a number of my friends have

02:42formed a uh a um something akin to a

02:46women's rights council. And I believe

02:49it's very important that uh that

02:51Montpielar uh supports this endeavor.

02:55And potentially if uh if Circle and

02:58Mosaic could be invited to set up

03:01offices in Mio, I think that would it

03:03would that would really facilitate uh

03:05the the efficacy of of uh this group.

03:10Thank you so much.

03:12>> Thank you, Mr. Collins.

03:16>> Anyone else? Mr. Whitaker,

03:20>> uh, being it's a supposedly a visionary

03:24kind of strategic planning meeting, I

03:27want to bring your focus on

03:30accountability.

03:32uh and this has to do with both staff

03:35and council

03:37that a number of pre for the last year

03:41or more actually it's a year today that

03:44the fiasco of the October 8th country

03:47club road executive session without

03:49proper findings decision made near

03:52midnight with no discussion or

03:54explanation no prior eyes public eyes on

03:57the contract a real fiasco of

04:00transparency and accountability ility

04:02that's still being litigated. But since

04:05then, the purchasing policy continues to

04:08be ignored. Uh no sole source

04:11justification for the uh taser contract.

04:15Again, no public transparency or even

04:17allowed public comment on that done on a

04:20consent agenda.

04:22Um

04:24the 60,000, this is my recorrection. And

04:27at first I thought it was Kelly had

04:29signed it. Then I thought it was Mike

04:31Miller. Turns out it was Kelly that

04:33signed a $60,000 no bid contract for uh

04:37local development uh management of the

04:40northern borders contract. That's not

04:43allowed without council vote, without

04:46soul source, without bid. That's just

04:49not allowed. And [snorts] what we've got

04:52we we you know there was a lot of

04:54support to you know

04:56we hired a a manager with no prior

05:00experience as an chief executive and now

05:03rather than support and constrain and

05:07develop that talent. We're teaching her

05:10all the wrong lessons. were allowing cut

05:13corners, constrained uh conspira not

05:18conspiracy, uh concealment

05:20um

05:23of of of 30 40

05:26appeals to the head of the agency on

05:28public records that have not been

05:29responded to are now before the court.

05:32Again, this this is just not good

05:34management and y'all refuse to discuss

05:37it. So,

05:39that's a problem. the survey. This

05:41council should have discussed the survey

05:44in open session before filing a survey

05:47that's likely to lead to years more

05:49delay in in East State Street

05:51reconstruction and litigation

05:54potentially into the millions of dollars

05:57for East State Street property owners

05:59and the city's liability. And it's just

06:02reckless. And y'all are are letting this

06:04go on without saying, "Hey, no, we need

06:06to hear about it. We need to discuss it.

06:08We need to learn about it before it's it

06:10happens. It's just not happening and

06:12y'all are letting it happen. Uh

06:20the Wi-Fi that somehow under the prior

06:24interim city manager, we switched IT

06:26vendors. We had good strong Wi-Fi on the

06:28front of city hall. We no longer do. Uh

06:31no one seemed to have noticed that it

06:34got dropped from the contract when we

06:36switched vendors. And then when we tried

06:38to get it restored,

06:40nobody wanted to use that. I mean, that

06:42was a flood era or a co era highowered

06:46Wi-Fi hotspot that should be back in

06:49service and we just don't have the

06:51management capacity to do so. We should

06:55have moved from the.org domain to a.gov

06:58domain for security. We're a sitting

07:00duck with much of our.org

07:03with without the federal layer of

07:05protection that a.gov Go gives um water

07:09systems are being hacked by overseas

07:12actors. Uh hiring a lawyer to reconsider

07:16the jurisdictional opinion on Country

07:18Club Road. That charter makes that only

07:23subject to council action and yet

07:26somebody entered a contract without

07:28council approval to hire a lawyer. Why

07:30are y'all letting this reckless

07:32mismanagement go on and why aren't you

07:35talking about it?

07:36That's it each one of you.

07:40I'll stop there. That's enough to

07:43basically this is what some of what you

07:45should be talking about tonight in

07:46strategic planning because we're headed

07:48down. We're we've got the same

07:51manipulative and concealment memo going

07:54on at Frraasier but without even the

07:56benefit of decades of experience.

08:00>> Thank you Mr. Whitaker for your comments

08:02and your vigilance. Is there councelor

08:06Doyle?

08:06>> I I would just like to respond that I

08:07don't believe that that was an accurate

08:08representation of our city manager's

08:10performance. I think Kelly's doing a

08:12great and honorable job.

08:13>> I would tend to agree with you. Mr.

08:15Whitaker is entitled to his opinion as

08:17are we all. And thank you for your

08:18comment. Um is there anyone else in the

08:21room or online who would like to speak

08:23on any topic?

08:27Seeing none at this time we will close

08:29general public comment and we will move

08:31on to item number five which is under

08:33informal consideration planning

08:35commission appointments. Manager Curry

08:37would you like to tee this up please?

08:40>> Sure. So u we are while this is a

08:43special meeting for your strategic

08:44planning retreat. We do have this order

08:46of business in order to reappoint um

08:49some planning commissioners and appoint

08:50new applicants to the planning

08:53commission. Um it's necessary that we do

08:55this tonight so that they can hold their

08:57meeting on um next week which is

09:00scheduled I believe for the 13th so they

09:02can continue to conduct um their

09:04business under a quorum and um there are

09:09adequate seats um currently for all the

09:11applicants should you wish to appoint

09:13them all to serve.

09:16>> I wish to be heard on this topic.

09:18>> We're not holding additional comment

09:20>> business. You've got to allow public

09:22comment on it. You're you're making a

09:24decision on Mr. Whitaker decision.

09:26>> Mr. Whitaker, you're not recognized.

09:28You're out of order. We're not holding

09:29public comment on this or any of the

09:31following agenda items.

09:33>> You're not making a decision on that

09:34commission.

09:34>> Mr. Whitaker, you're out of order. Thank

09:37you.

09:37>> You're out of order for conducting

09:39business this way. This is a retreat,

09:40not a business meeting.

09:44>> Are we able to continue?

09:45>> This meeting has been properly noticed.

09:47Um, according to open meeting law, the

09:49open meeting law requires that you give

09:51an opportunity for the public to make

09:53comment, which you have done. It is not

09:55required that you accept public comment

09:57on every order or active business that

09:59you take during the course of that

10:00meeting. This is the only act of

10:02business on which you will be voting on

10:03this evening. The rest are for

10:04discussion only and we'll come back for

10:07formal adoption and discussion at a

10:09future date.

10:10>> Thank you for the clarification. Um,

10:12seeing there are three folks up for

10:14either appointment or reappoint. I only

10:18uh are any of these folks in the room? I

10:20don't see any of them. I do see Mr.

10:22Lombardo online. Um, if you would,

10:25you're not required to say anything, but

10:27if you would like to say anything, you

10:29are certainly welcome to and then we

10:31will have are there clarifying questions

10:33from uh council on this? I think we've

10:36all had ample time to look at the

10:39applications. Mr. Mr. Lombardo, would

10:41you like to say anything? It's not

10:43required.

10:44>> Sure. Yeah, I can just briefly chime in

10:46and say that, you know, um, for several

10:50months I've been attending the planning

10:52commission meetings and have found that

10:54work really interesting. I think there's

10:56a lot of potential there for the work in

10:59front of the commission to really help

11:01uh, the city, particularly as we think

11:04about our housing goals going forward.

11:06And that's an issue that I care a lot

11:09about. Um and I think some of my

11:11experience um would help me in that

11:15position. I have a background in uh

11:17geospatial analysis that I think would

11:20come in useful there in addition to the

11:23you know experience that I have gained

11:25so far in attending those meetings and

11:28the you know related work in front of

11:30the housing committee and I'd just be

11:33generally excited to have like a formal

11:35opportunity to serve the city and learn

11:38from the experienced folks that are

11:40already on the commission.

11:42>> Great. Thank you very much for the

11:43comment. Thank you very much for your

11:45willingness to serve. I believe Mr.

11:47Lombard is the only one who's not up for

11:48reappoint but is up for uh first time

11:51appointment. Do councilors, do you have

11:53any questions for Mr. Lombardo?

11:57>> Okay, thank you again Mr. Lombardo for

11:59coming and for making that comment and

12:00for your willingness to serve.

12:02Counselors, are there any clarifying

12:04questions about any of the uh candidates

12:06for appointment or reappoint?

12:10All right. Seeing none, at this time we

12:11would take a motion to appoint or

12:15reappoint one at a time or all three,

12:17however you'd care to make a motion.

12:20>> Move [clears throat] that we uh appoint

12:21and we reappoint all three as a slate. I

12:24think they're all eminently qualified.

12:26>> Is there a second?

12:27>> Second.

12:28>> Okay. Um any discussion or debate on the

12:30topic?

12:32>> I I had the words in my head eminently

12:35qualified. [laughter]

12:37No, they're great people and we're lucky

12:39to have them.

12:39>> I would agree with that. So, uh, with

12:41that, all in favor of appointing or

12:44reappointing all three of these

12:45candidates, uh, please say I.

12:48>> I. I.

12:48>> I. Are we reappointing the three and

12:51appointing four?

12:52>> Okay. Well,

12:56>> all together, right?

12:58>> Yeah.

12:58>> Oh, right. Sorry, not three, four.

13:02Would you like to amend your motion?

13:04>> I would. Yeah. So, uh, reappoint the

13:06three

13:07>> and elect.

13:08>> Yeah. And appoint Sheamus is the fourth.

13:10>> Okay. Thank you.

13:11>> So, the motion as amended is to

13:14reappoint the three and to appoint Mr.

13:16Lombardo. Um, all in favor say I. Thank

13:20you for the correction, Council Brown.

13:21All in favor say I.

13:23>> I. Any opposed?

13:25>> Any abstensions?

13:27Unanimously passes. Thank you to all

13:29four of you who are willing to serve.

13:32Um, with that we're on to the next

13:35agenda item.

13:37Um, both of these are will serve as the

13:40main meat of tonight's meeting. We're on

13:42to number six, the strategic plan update

13:44and discussion.

13:45>> Great.

13:46>> Senator Curry,

13:46>> thank you. Welcome everyone. It's nice

13:49to spend this time with you this

13:50evening. Um, Evelyn, can I please ask

13:53you to put my PowerPoint up, please?

13:55We'll just use a PowerPoint to kind of

13:57help keep us organized. And um as we

14:00move through the evening, we're also

14:02going to have the opportunity to get up

14:04and move around quite a bit.

14:21I'll also take the opportunity to

14:23welcome the staff who has joined us

14:25tonight from um Department of Public

14:27Works and finance and fire department

14:29and parks and let's see I know the

14:32police department will be represented a

14:34little bit later as well.

14:44Oh, and economic development. Sorry, I

14:46know Matt's back there with planning.

15:22All right. Thank you. Um, if you'll go

15:25to the next slide, please. So, I'll walk

15:27through our agenda for this meeting.

15:33See, I'm going to give a overview of the

15:35goals and look for any amendments or

15:37additions to the goals because this is

15:39really your work together as um a board.

15:42And in general, the overview here is we

15:44are going to be having an update on your

15:46strategic plan that you adopted in

15:48August of last year. Um a conversation

15:51around the the goals and KPIs and

15:54strategies within that. Um consideration

15:56of a proposed new priority area for that

15:59plan. And then later in the evening,

16:01we'll have a conversation around the

16:02local options tax um as well and whether

16:05you want to create a policy around the

16:08allocation of those revenues in the

16:10forthcoming year to help guide us in

16:12budget conversations.

16:15And so I will ask for I'll propose some

16:17ground rules um for us today as well.

16:20And then we'll go through a DOT exercise

16:22on each of our priority areas and

16:24discuss the results of the current of

16:26those priorities for the current

16:28strategic plan. I'll present an overview

16:30of the proposed community safety

16:32priority area. Um we'll invite um

16:35Colonel Jim Beaker to present to you

16:37all. He has quite a lot of experience

16:39around um Vermont and helping convene

16:43community conversations related to the

16:45nexus of public health and public

16:46safety. Um he's also been helping with

16:49the recruitment for our police chief

16:50position. And so I've gotten to know him

16:52and his work well in that and I think

16:54you'll um have an interesting dialogue

16:56with him.

16:58Can you go to the next slide please?

17:05We will similarly um do a dot exercise

17:08to kind of collect the visual

17:09representation on what is proposed and

17:11anything you might want to amend or get

17:13rid of or add. We'll discuss the

17:16results. We'll have a break for birthday

17:18cake as it was counselor con's birthday

17:21earlier this week. [laughter]

17:23>> I worked so hard for that.

17:27Uh we will um talk about the local local

17:30options tax. Our finance director will

17:32give an overview of what the collections

17:34of that tax have looked like um over the

17:37first year of its collections and where

17:40the money is being generated from. And

17:42then we'll talk about your policy goals

17:45um related to that and some of the

17:46tensions between how you might want to

17:49um create a policy for the allocation of

17:52that tax. Next slide please.

17:55We have um some different kind of

17:57facilitated exercises where you can eat

18:00your cake and use some technology um to

18:03collect some of your input and then

18:04we'll have a discussion relative to

18:06where we want to head. Um and then

18:08finally, we'll have reflections and wrap

18:10up. Again, we're not going to make any

18:12formal decisions today. Uh the direction

18:15that I might anticipate from these

18:17conversations is uh updates that we will

18:20make to the strategic plan, a time

18:22horizon that you want to define the plan

18:24that plan for and then also uh draft pol

18:28draft information for a draft uh local

18:31options tax policy that we would bring

18:33back for your review and adoption at a

18:35future date. Next slide, please.

18:40So these are let's see go back. Yeah,

18:43goals of the retreat. Oh, mine did an

18:46update, so I'll read that. Um, so goals

18:48of the retreat. These are some of the

18:49goals that were presented to you all in

18:51your in your packet. Evaluate and amend

18:53the current strategic plan. Review the

18:55local options tax and determine and if

18:57an if an allocation policy is desired by

19:00this body, and enjoy a meal together,

19:02and build some team rapport hopefully as

19:05we leave this evening. Are there any

19:07additional goals that any of you would

19:09like to add at this time?

19:14We're going to get in the groove of

19:15having this being a more flowing meeting

19:17than sitting around the table. But for

19:18right now, if you have more that you

19:21wish to end, you add as we move through

19:23the conversation. We can always um

19:27reconvene around that conversation later

19:29tonight. And then I just propose some um

19:32ground rules for for the retreat as we

19:34all work together. Be present here in

19:37the room and participatory in the

19:39exercises in front of you. um give me

19:42permission to facilitate. You know,

19:44ordinarily Mark is the mayor and chair.

19:46We'll we'll jump in to move

19:48conversations along. I'm going to ask

19:50for that permission from you all

19:52tonight. Um speak now or forever hold

19:55your peace sort of. Um we're going to

19:57take silence as a bit of consent. So

20:00obviously will we revisit all these

20:02things in a formal finalization of a

20:04conversation but really asking for for

20:06if there is something that is weighing

20:08on your mind related to one of the

20:10topics please please say it um and get

20:12it out there on the table tonight so we

20:14can know about it um and move on and

20:18then Elno enough let's move on sometimes

20:20we can get bogged down in conversations

20:22and again I'm going to try and

20:24facilitate us through because even

20:25though we have four hours together this

20:27evening we also have quite a lot we want

20:28to get on and then use the parking lot.

20:31So, we have a sheet put over there that

20:33I've put on the um easel by the door.

20:37I'm happy to go over and, you know, I'll

20:39move around the room. We're all going to

20:40move around the room. If there are

20:41things that come up for you that maybe

20:43are inspired by this conversation, um

20:46but not directly central to it or we're

20:48having a conversation about something

20:50else and an idea related to a different

20:52topic comes up, feel free to ask me to

20:54put that item in the parking lot or to

20:56write that item in the parking lot

20:58yourself. and we'll make sure we spend

20:59some time giving that attention when we

21:02do our wrap up. Um, and then are there

21:04other proposed ground rules for us all

21:06to have a great retreat together this

21:08evening?

21:10I' just like to say I I think that a lot

21:13of times when we're I mean it's public

21:14[clears throat] meeting especially when

21:16we're in official city council meetings

21:18it can be very intimidating to be able

21:21to just ask a question of what if like

21:25what what would happen if we did

21:27something and sometimes that feels like

21:30oh we're making a proposal and by asking

21:32what if I must be advocating for us to

21:34see something all the way through. I

21:36think it's important for us to be able I

21:38mean every good project started with

21:41somebody saying what if this happened

21:43and even if nine of 10 whatifs turned

21:45out to be terrible ideas we had to ask

21:47them to find that one. So I'd like for

21:49us to maybe relax a little bit and ask

21:53the some grace from the public and

21:55knowing that exploring what if is not

21:57the same thing as proposing action or

22:00adopting policy.

22:02>> Right. Great.

22:04others.

22:10Okay. And I just want to acknowledge,

22:12you know, the work here is in this space

22:14tonight. While that can be challenging

22:15for the folks at home, I really would

22:18encourage us all to kind of just focus

22:19here and what we can summarize and

22:21clarify for anyone who may be listening

22:23in, we'll do as we get to sort of the

22:26wrapups on the individual um topics. So

22:30um so let's get let's get started. So,

22:32I'm going to sort of, you know, tee us

22:34off here and then I'm going to invite

22:36folks to move around the room. I'll

22:37invite counselors to get um dinner. We

22:41have a vegetarian lasagna that was

22:42prepared by our meals um on wheels

22:44program for everyone tonight. And um and

22:48so with that, you were you were given in

22:50your packet and we do have some

22:52printouts here because it might be

22:53helpful to use um as you work through

22:56this is this sheet which is your

22:59strategic plan built out across a

23:02spreadsheet that included the elements

23:05of the um the timelines that you

23:08initially assigned to those those

23:10individual strategies back a year ago in

23:13[snorts] August when you first adopted

23:15it. And then you had an update earlier

23:18this year in February

23:21um about the progress along these goals.

23:24And then here today in this packet we've

23:27included an October update for um the

23:30different goals and strategy areas for

23:32this. Now your goals are your big three

23:35overarching strategic pillars. So you've

23:39chosen housing, infrastructure, and

23:41economic development. Beneath each one,

23:44you've listed a number of strategies.

23:46And then for each priority area, you all

23:49decided on some KPIs. And the difference

23:51between the strategies and the KPIs are

23:54the strategies are more qualitative and

23:56directional of the the work plan for

24:00these big goals. And the KPIs are how

24:02you want to measure those. They're of a

24:04quantitative nature. Um, and you'll see

24:07as we've given the update, you know,

24:08some of them have been achieved. Um some

24:12are um underway which would be so the

24:16green would be we've achieved those the

24:18yellow are underway the red are either

24:20they've not been launched yet or there's

24:22some condition relative to that strategy

24:24that has made it um not viable to move

24:28forward with that may be something like

24:30we didn't budget the money towards it we

24:32don't have the staff position filled for

24:34that thing so I would suggest so what I

24:37would recommend as we move through this

24:38you're going to each of the pillars

24:41areas here. Um, each of your strategic

24:44pillars have two sheets assigned to

24:46them. So, you have your housing pillar

24:48with each of the strategies underneath

24:50it and then the KPIs next to it. This is

24:53where we'd really love to invite your

24:55input on um whether you think these

24:58continue to be the right ones, whether

25:01you want to keep them, get rid of them,

25:02or edit them. and we can collect

25:04information after we kind of gain get

25:06the sum of or the summation of that

25:08input to figure out well what are things

25:10that you might want to edit or add um in

25:13those and so there will be a bit of

25:15moving around the room we'll take the

25:17sheets off and look at the results based

25:19on your inputs and then have a

25:21discussion around it your technical

25:22staff is here to help answer questions

25:25relative to them um they are the ones

25:28that provided the information about the

25:30updates um for you here in the last few

25:34weeks of our progress. So, it's a it's a

25:36recent snapshot of where we're at on

25:39these. Um, and that's how we'll move

25:41through this. So, this will take a, you

25:42know, it'll take a little while. I would

25:44say let's spend um, you know, 25 minutes

25:47to a half hour getting dinner, getting

25:49your dots, moving around the room to

25:51each of these, spreading out a little

25:53bit, looking at them, and then we'll

25:55staff will take photos of each. I'll

25:58collect kind of the summaries of them

26:00and then we'll reconvene for a

26:02discussion. I did print them out so you

26:05can walk around.

26:05>> Yeah. Where are they? Are they

26:06>> Yeah, they're on the back table there. I

26:08can grab those for you. Um so that as

26:10you're kind of looking at them, you're

26:11like, well, where are we at? Because we

26:13didn't include all the updates on these

26:14sheets. Um does that sound workable to

26:19everybody?

26:20>> Sounds great.

26:20>> Any input or Okay, you have a lot you

26:23have a lot of strategies that were in

26:24this plan.

26:26>> Yes. So, we have no

26:28>> Evelyn has the dots. We have red,

26:31yellow, and blue. I'll ask you to hold

26:33on the blue right now and use red,

26:36yellow, and sorry, red, yellow, and

26:38green, um, as you would a stoplight. So,

26:42um, green keep, yellow amend, and red

26:46opposed to pull off of the strategic

26:49plan. Thank you.

26:51>> Other questions?

26:56Uh well I have uh maybe a general

26:59question for you or for the group just

27:01do we feel that we have too much in the

27:03plan? Do you know I mean in general did

27:05it feel so like a loose baggy monster or

27:07did it feel like oh no this is like a

27:09plan that we can actually implement.

27:12>> Do you want are this is your plan? It

27:15should work for you all. No, I guess I'm

27:16just asking. I'm just like it's coming

27:18from a genuine place of curiosity like

27:20you know a year later like was there too

27:22many things not enough things you know

27:25or do we just find that out as we go

27:26through the exercise? Maybe we just find

27:28it out that way.

27:29>> I think you may find it out. I mean I

27:30think um there's a lot of way to a lot

27:33of ways to write strategic plans. This

27:35one is definitely very um output heavy

27:38and you want to be able to track those.

27:40I think that that um you know that

27:42reflects a desire to kind of move

27:44towards more public transparency and

27:47building out of public dashboards around

27:50the progress of our work. Um

27:54I think maybe it reflects a little

27:55perhaps reflects what I think has

27:57changed but might have been a little bit

27:58of a lack of trust in staff and are

28:01moving forward on the things that we

28:03think are you know that you all think

28:05are the important goals of the city. Um

28:08I think that has changed. It's been my

28:10observation. But you know I this is also

28:13workable for us and it's does reflect um

28:18you know input that was generated from

28:22staff. A lot of this is pulled directly

28:24from the city plan. Um, and there is I

28:27didn't include it on this sheet, but in

28:29your in your strategic plan that was

28:31linked in your packet, you know, it

28:33shows that um cross reference to the

28:36elements of the city plan. So it does

28:38reflect kind of the detailed community

28:42dialogue that went into that uh document

28:44as well

28:46>> which is very long but

28:47>> no that's the other issue that I see is

28:50that we're we're looking at a strategic

28:52plan that enumerates a lot of detailed

28:56um targets that are really two three

29:00four five year targets so that when we

29:02look at it it looks like oh we haven't

29:04done enough on this or we haven't done

29:05enough on that but you need to do it

29:07sequence a lot of these pieces. And so I

29:10I wonder if we, you know, as this was

29:13done, it was done as if it was a

29:15one-year plan, but it's really part of a

29:18maybe three to five year plan in terms

29:20of the amount of work that's in here.

29:22Um, so another observation I have is

29:25around the housing issue. There's not a

29:28lot of homelessness. We've talked about

29:31the fact that we're going to be

29:32developing a homelessness plan that is

29:36not included in this now, but there may

29:39be a way in the future to bridge some of

29:43the

29:45services and supports that we can be

29:47giving um to advance you know

29:50strategically around the homelessness

29:52issue and that may also under the

29:55housing issue.

29:57>> Yeah, if I could just respond to No, I

29:59guess I just would respond to that.

30:01relative to housing. I think that this

30:03represents a traditional view of of how

30:07of housing, you know, like construction

30:08and development and generation of new

30:10housing as opposed to like a full

30:13continuum perspective of like housing

30:16from homelessness all the way through to

30:18like senior housing and all the

30:20different free market and subsidized

30:22market and different options all along

30:25the way. Um, so that that's just one of

30:28my observations when I look at how this

30:30housing how these housing goals are

30:32structured.

30:35>> So, another question about the dots. Um,

30:38is there some number that we're allowed

30:40to use? I mean, to are we to use all of

30:43the reds, all the yellows, and all of

30:45the greens that we have in these sheets?

30:46Is that the intention?

30:49You can um I think um I think it would

30:53be helpful if you used one per strategy.

30:56>> Okay.

30:58>> You know, or skipped strategies. So then

31:00you have a sense of like how many

31:01counselors wanted to keep this thing.

31:05How many county get rid of this thing?

31:10>> Not one per goal, one per strategy.

31:12>> Right.

31:13>> Okay.

31:13>> Yep.

31:15>> Yep. Because under some of your goals,

31:17you have anywhere from 3 to eight

31:19strategies. And then for KPIs, you have

31:23maybe 12 to 15 total KPIs. And they're

31:27not really assigned under each strategy.

31:30I think of them as both like your header

31:32is the goal. You have a qualitative

31:36um measure, which is your strategies,

31:39and you have a quantitative measure,

31:41which is your KPIs.

31:43>> You've run out of dots. That's good

31:45information.

31:48>> Just want to know what the rules are.

31:50>> I I think as long as we're talking are

31:54our dots on the strategies only. So not

31:57the KPIs.

31:58>> It can be both.

32:00>> So we might think this strategy is

32:02fantastic for this particular KPI.

32:05>> Yes. Because they're not they're not

32:06linked to each other. They're not linked

32:08to the goal.

32:10>> So tell us again, read green is key.

32:12Mhm.

32:13>> Red is

32:14>> remove.

32:15>> Remove and yellow.

32:17>> Amend.

32:18>> Amend.

32:20>> Edit. Amend. Rewrite.

32:23>> We have more speakers. That's

32:27>> okay.

32:32>> All right.

32:34Does that work for now? And again, you

32:35may run into this like, you know, this

32:37one's already always bothering me. I

32:39wonder what staff thinks about that.

32:40when we reconvene, we can ask our staff

32:44to explain how they've been interpreting

32:47these.

32:49Okay. All right. I'm going to go unwrap

32:51all the food. Um so you all can all

32:53settle for yourself to dinner.

33:01>> Does anyone else need one of these?

33:04>> Your question was wellounded,

33:06[clears throat]

33:07just too much. So, we're going to

33:09reconvene here and what we'll do is

33:12we'll talk through what your findings

33:14are um relative to each of the three

33:18strategic priority areas. So, we'll

33:20start with housing here and I'll just

33:22kind of summarize what I see. So,

33:23everyone in the room and online um we do

33:27have photos of of these and then um

33:30we'll have a check-in with them. So,

33:32what I'll do is I'll go through each

33:34goal area and we'll sort of stop and

33:37talk about it. If there's new ideas for

33:41strategies that you would like added

33:42here, I've asked Sarah to jot those down

33:45so we can bring continue our

33:47conversation or bring those forward in

33:49an updated draft and we'll go through

33:52KPIs which for housing at least is a

33:57little sparse. Um, so please be thinking

34:00about what it means to you all as well

34:02if there's no response here, how we

34:04should deal with those and your update

34:06to your strategic plan. So looking at

34:09under the housing priority area, goal

34:111.1 is increase the number of homes in

34:14Montpillar by a minimum of 75 units per

34:18year. So we have, as you've looked under

34:21your

34:22um strategies here,

34:29Okay. Utilize the recommendations from

34:32the housing needs assessment and develop

34:34a plan. This has a number of of amends.

34:38So I'll bring us back to a conversation

34:40around amendments. Review and edit

34:43zoning to encourage building. There's a

34:45note here that this overlaps with a

34:47different one. Amend this as well.

34:50Strategy 1.1.3. Make 1216 Maine as

34:53attractive as possible. There's some

34:55notes here to move this. And then

34:57there's other notes here to keep this

34:59goal or strategy. Identify chip

35:02projects. Keep zoning reform. Keep

35:04building lot survey. Keep. This is a

35:08little bit different than what the staff

35:09recommendation has been because we've

35:11not had clear direction to work on that.

35:13So getting clear direction will be

35:14helpful. Evaluate the elimination of

35:17municipal fees for housing construction.

35:19We've got a red and a green here

35:21canceling each other out. So we'll have

35:23some conversation around that. Review

35:25and revise development agreement

35:26program. This one is blank. Campaign

35:29nonpar builds. This has an amend to it.

35:32Amend zoning bylaws. Keep this. And then

35:35streamline and shorten the appro

35:37approval process is noted as being done

35:40here. So when I look at some of these, I

35:44think let's start with the easy one. Are

35:46we in agreement that we've successfully

35:50streamlined and shortened the approval

35:51process for housing applications? We've

35:54had a number that have moved in which

35:56that your KPIs have shown we've moved

35:58through them through the DRB very

36:01quickly. Is anyone going to be upset if

36:04we remove that from an updated strategic

36:06plan?

36:08>> We're 100% success rate.

36:12>> Okay.

36:13All right.

36:17Okay, here's this one. I'll look for

36:19folks who kind of canceled each other

36:21out around evaluating the elimination of

36:23municipal fees for housing construction.

36:25So, this is work is underway. We've

36:27staff has been actively

36:29um discussing this process as well to

36:32come back to the board. So, I'm going to

36:34look to the body as a whole for some

36:36conversation around keeping this or not.

36:39We had a presentation from the housing

36:41committee that that um shared their

36:44perspective on it and asked us to

36:46consider action. Um so um my

36:49understanding was that their evaluation

36:51was essentially complete and they had a

36:53recommendation for us to act on. We're

36:56looking for more information, but I

36:58think as a council ready to think about

37:01it again at some point seemed like that

37:03was the way that conversation ended. I

37:06thought it ended with the housing

37:08committee came to us and said, "Do you

37:09want us to continue to pursue the idea

37:11of eliminating development fees?" And we

37:14gave them clear direction of yes, go

37:16out, do more information, come back to

37:18us for a potential proposal.

37:20>> And that's where we're waiting for. I

37:22think

37:22>> we did adopt an amended schedule because

37:24the amended schedule reflected more of

37:27what um you know, how the charges are

37:30actually getting created and incurred

37:32for that, but then sent them back to go

37:34and do more of that. So, is this do we

37:36want to continue to keep this as

37:37priority in person?

37:40>> I would say

37:40>> I would say yes.

37:43>> I'll say no.

37:47>> Okay. Related to um some of these, I'm

37:50going to go through the green ones here

37:52next. So, amend the zoning bylaws. Keep

37:55this is something we have already done a

37:57number of times. We do have some

37:59additional um zoning that we will um be

38:03looking to update in the forthcoming

38:04future. I'm not sure this needs to be in

38:07the strategic plan, but this is up for

38:09you all to decide. I mean, this was in

38:11here based on um you know, based on the

38:14direction you wanted us to pursue to

38:16make zoning more um flexible for

38:20housing. you know, this is we are doing

38:22that that has been incorporated into

38:25this the the plan that's going in front

38:27of the land use review board um as well.

38:30We'll need to make some of those

38:32adjustments over time. So, I

38:36we can keep it as strategic work, but

38:38it's sort of already all in play.

38:41>> Yeah, the planning this is what they're

38:43working on and the housing committee had

38:46a subcommittee working on this.

38:50I think it maybe just goes back a little

38:52bit to Ben's earlier question [snorts]

38:54about like is it just too many things on

38:58the list, right? I mean,

38:59>> does it need to remain as a strategic

39:02priority for us if it's a project that's

39:05already underway in [cough]

39:11>> Yeah. I mean, so the question I guess is

39:13is removing it from the list the same as

39:16saying please stop the work that's

39:18that's currently happening because

39:20that's the critical issue. Yeah.

39:21>> Yeah.

39:22>> They're not the same thing.

39:23>> They're not the same.

39:24>> Yeah.

39:24>> Yeah.

39:25>> Go ahead, S.

39:26>> Yes. I mean, in that case, like I this

39:28does feel like one we could remove from

39:30the list just right for simplicity and

39:32clarity sake. I mean, it's happening

39:33there. multiple people are working on it

39:35multiple places like great let's focus

39:38on the things that we really want to

39:39build strategy around at this level

39:42>> I would I would note it as done in

39:45Congress

39:48similarly I would note you know strategy

39:501.5 is very similar to this right

39:53>> those two should be consolidated

39:55>> that's right I agree with that so you

40:00tell me this is this is the this is your

40:02plan do you wish to keep things on here

40:04as sort of direction for staff to keep

40:07going or are you looking for staff to

40:10reinitiate

40:12priority towards new

40:15action?

40:18>> So I think that will be very helpful in

40:19clarifying for this strategic plan.

40:21>> So I think it's a good question. I mean

40:23if again sort of if if we say oh take it

40:26off the list because we feel like it's

40:28being addressed how is that interpreted

40:30by staff? Is that to say like oh it's no

40:32longer a priority so this work is not

40:35important or is that not the case

40:38because what I think we should be clear

40:41with what message we're sending and you

40:44know sort of also aware of how a certain

40:47message is received by staff right

40:50>> because what you say matters but what is

40:52heard probably matters more

40:56>> so as far as I remember last year those

41:00um numbers and the explanation came from

41:03staff.

41:04>> Mhm.

41:05>> So it was their [clears throat]

41:07suggestion under our goals and

41:10strategies we want. So they put each uh

41:13detailed one

41:15>> as like a KPI. So it came from

41:18>> Yeah. [snorts] It came from

41:20>> from city staff. You know, I think what

41:23will make this [clears throat] clearer

41:24if we collapse three of these together

41:27>> because you have three different

41:28strategies here that are all talking

41:30about

41:31>> zoning

41:31>> zoning related to buildings. So, I think

41:33it's something you can keep in here as

41:35something that's important to you, but

41:36we don't need [clears throat] to spell

41:37it out in quite such surgical detail.

41:40>> Well, amend zoning bylaws is kind of the

41:42same,

41:43>> right?

41:45>> Yep. Okay. I think we can come back.

41:48>> We kind of beat that one to death.

41:50>> Improve. Look, you just dealt with four

41:52of them. That's great.

41:53>> Well, it seems to me something like, you

41:56know, streamline and shorten the

41:57approval process.

42:00>> Great. So, we do that. It seems then the

42:03next step is evaluate the the

42:06consequence of that, the effectiveness

42:08of that. Did it meet the goals or not?

42:12And it may lead to

42:14reimplementing some of the things that

42:16were streamlined. You know what I mean?

42:18And in other words, it's it isn't over

42:20till it's over. Um, as I think maybe

42:23Yogi once said, um,

42:28>> so how do we indicate something like

42:30that where, you know, we don't want it

42:32to stop, but we want it to be the

42:34results to be evaluated. [snorts]

42:35I mean, you know, we're [clears throat]

42:37making some major changes. We need to

42:40look back on them and say and compare

42:41and say, is this working?

42:43>> Yeah. I mean, I think that some of that

42:44comes up with your KPIs where you're

42:46tracking the deliverables here rather

42:49than the strategies to get there. Like

42:51you're not you still have your goal,

42:53which is, you know, housing is probably

42:55not the clearest goal. This is where

42:56you're spelling them out here with a bit

42:58more detail, but I think you can

43:00collapse many of these into because

43:02we're already working on them or we've

43:04already done. I mean, I don't think it

43:06makes sense to carry forward something

43:08that we've accomplished in in

43:11>> because streaming approval process is

43:14not the same as changing the zoning.

43:16>> And if you we can always keep this

43:19talking about,

43:20>> you know, always keep the structure of

43:21how we're reporting this so you don't

43:23lose the progress to it,

43:25>> right? Like so in August, you know, in

43:28October of 2026, in August of 2026, you

43:31had something it was a plan initiated or

43:34I think it was anyone was that was the

43:37starting baseline. You know, you got an

43:39update on where you were at. You got an

43:41update on where you were at again in

43:43October, which shows you've done these

43:45things. So that doesn't go away

43:47necessarily. It just doesn't become

43:49something that you carry over into

43:50future.

43:50>> Sounds like though that the KPI lives on

43:53for a while longer

43:54>> until you read it.

43:55>> Yeah. Because we haven't really

43:56evaluated it long term. But yeah,

43:59>> I think that's important too because it

44:02seems that like the step of then

44:04evaluating whether something was a good

44:06idea is something that staff is going to

44:08do. It doesn't need to be a council

44:10priority to tell staff that they need

44:12to, you know, that strive for continuous

44:14improvement, evaluate the work, right?

44:19>> Yeah. Some of that's the city manager's

44:21job. So when I when I look at this I say

44:25you know we have we have great staff we

44:28have leadership and staff we have

44:30managerial staff in significant places

44:34in police fire department planning and

44:38they're responsible for their arena and

44:40should in work with the city manager and

44:42report to the city manager to articulate

44:45as clearly as they can the CPIs that

44:47they think are going to be most

44:49illustrative of their success. I think

44:51that we're not a select board. We're in

44:55a city government with professional

44:57staff who are responsible for management

45:00and our job is to set policy

45:01[clears throat]

45:02and set budgets, encourage staff,

45:05respect their ability to drive

45:09implementation of larger goals. So I

45:12personally think a lot of the key

45:13performance indicators are are partly

45:17useful but not necessarily that useful

45:19to us. mostly useful to the city manager

45:21who's evaluating them and then bringing

45:23to the city council issues where there's

45:26problems or issues where there's need

45:28for additional initiative or budget.

45:32That's my feeling

45:33>> and also

45:34>> well I just want to add on what Paul is

45:38saying those KPIs came from our five

45:41years city plan.

45:44>> So they just like wrote all these things

45:47under this thing. So um

45:50>> our bigger city plan

45:51>> right

45:52>> has all of them in it anyway.

45:54>> Mhm.

45:55>> So we don't have to go over it all the

45:57time. it is written and city staff knows

45:59that they need to complete because

46:01that's their

46:03>> what I'm hearing correctly because these

46:05are already captured in the city plan

46:07which we you know track and drive our

46:11work plans related to it that this is

46:14not a necessary component for your

46:17strategic plan.

46:19>> Speaking for myself, I didn't put any

46:21dots on KPIs for that reason because

46:24those feel

46:25>> it's a management function. That's a

46:26management function.

46:27>> There's no way we can do it unless we're

46:29talking to staff.

46:31>> We don't know what's going on really.

46:34>> Okay.

46:37>> If that's true, then I'm going to narrow

46:38and focus our conversation by rem by not

46:41addressing the KPIs for these others. We

46:44can check in on them and see if there's

46:45anything you want to move over

46:47>> from the KPIs to the strategies chart.

46:50>> Yeah. One thing I wanna Sorry. I want to

46:53ask like I am curious with this red ones

46:59right some of them like planned 6 months

47:02but it is over 6 months some of them

47:06like 3 months it is over like it is same

47:08or not done anything so I'm just like

47:11curious if city staff and city manager

47:15want to hear

47:17>> any direction or like what happened

47:20>> do you need our direction or no your

47:24suggestions just remove them because all

47:26the these strategies are here it's not

47:29working and these are the reasons so do

47:32you need any direction for this ones or

47:36>> well I think we we should talk about

47:38that

47:39>> yeah I have no interest

47:40>> because some of some of them have not

47:43moved forward for different reasons like

47:45there's not one single reason that it

47:47would explain why

47:49>> you know these individual strategies

47:51have been on hold.

47:53>> Yeah.

47:53>> Um you know 1216

47:56Maine [clears throat]

47:57has has been on hold simply because we

48:00frankly have had other projects that we

48:02prioritized. Now, we have include

48:04concluded 1216 Maine in the broader

48:07conversation related to the all-around

48:09adventure economic development

48:12um effort where we're planning you know

48:14a community outreach to put vision

48:16around the properties that we own and

48:18control in terms of how do we want to

48:20develop these in the future to advance

48:23that economic agenda. Um, but as far as

48:27under, you know, lives now under

48:30housing, maybe it's coughed

48:32to the other place, too. But that's a

48:34bit of why that's on hold. You know, the

48:36building lot survey. I don't have I

48:38don't know if Matt wants to come up and

48:40has some history on this. Um, I don't

48:43know what the

48:44>> Kelly, I don't want to interrupt. You

48:45don't have to explain. I was just asking

48:47if city staff need any direction

48:50>> to remove them or

48:52>> I mean I think some of them like I would

48:53say we should

48:54>> Yeah, I don't want to put you on the

48:55spot now. Yeah, that wasn't my question.

48:57>> Yeah, great. I do think we have some of

48:59that like and again in Mike's update in

49:01October like

49:02>> I'm not sure we you know

49:04>> the development agreement program we can

49:06keep it but we're already doing it in

49:08the context of other developments and we

49:10chip has replaced sort of that

49:14type of program at this point for our

49:16focus. I want to give Matt the

49:18opportunity to answer

49:19>> early on we did this a tally of all of

49:22the city owned property and all of the

49:24states owned property and we looked to

49:26see what was

49:28uh what could be developed and so like

49:31we have that

49:32>> thank you

49:33>> the housing committee um last

49:37Tuesday uh put together their work

49:40priorities and one of the things is to

49:42do

49:44uh property assessments but there's a

49:47very delicate concern here which is to

49:50say well you've got two acres or 10

49:53acres and you should put ADUs on the

49:55site we have to be I think careful on

49:58how we start to talk about what is

50:00developable when it's privately owned.

50:03>> Y

50:03>> so there's a a a team from the housing

50:07committee that is going to to look at

50:09figuring out where there are some

50:12potential things that could be done and

50:14we've also talked and it's one of the

50:16priorities but it's not worded exactly

50:18the same. Um there's a a citizen who is

50:22very interested in promoting EDUs and

50:25working with a um a manufacturer that

50:29does modular construction that's local.

50:31And so we're talking about putting

50:33together an event where we can figure

50:35out the financing and the zoning and the

50:37show the system and make it so that an

50:38AU would be easier and then that would

50:41tie into the housing trust fund

50:42opportunity because there's money for

50:44supporting that anyway. So there there

50:46are things that are emerging or

50:47evolving, but they're not

50:49>> necessarily captured in one of those

50:51lines. And I I can say like that's

50:54probably true of a lot of these where

50:56there are projects out there that

50:58capture some of the things but not

51:00specific things.

51:01>> Yeah. Thank you.

51:02>> Thank you,

51:04>> Shelley. Can I ask um

51:06>> I'm just curious about

51:08>> Do you need this?

51:09>> No, I I would love to just get a handle

51:11on how like we operationalize this,

51:14right? like if we're talking about like

51:15okay the K KPIs are management tool

51:18right so let's just take that off the

51:20table for this conversation and then

51:22what I feel like I'm hearing is too got

51:25a whole bunch of strategies a lot of

51:27which could potentially be combined

51:29right but so if we if we just did those

51:32three things right we're keeping our

51:34broad presumably keeping our broad goals

51:37right collapsing a few of the strategies

51:41uh removing the KPIs Then what does that

51:44look like operationally? you know that

51:47that you have the direction to give to

51:50staff of like move it move towards these

51:52goals using these strategies and then

51:54kind of to Palin's point like when

51:56something red comes up right of like

51:58this isn't working this strategy isn't

52:00working is that when you're coming back

52:02to us I mean presumably you're coming

52:04back to us too and be like look the

52:05strategy was amazing it was hugely

52:06successful it's great but like is that

52:09where do we come in on this conversation

52:11right is it a like we're affirming the

52:13goals we're affirming the strategies and

52:15then over the course of the year, right?

52:17What does it what does it look like in

52:18your mind?

52:19>> Yeah, I think that for you all for this

52:22strategic plan to be very productive, I

52:25think they should live in policy

52:27authorities and budgeting decisions.

52:30Okay.

52:30>> Um for council and that what might make

52:33more sense for this is looking at well

52:35which of these require a budget

52:38authorization from council? Which of

52:40these require a adoption of a policy?

52:42Which one of these require a leverage of

52:44authorities that you all already possess

52:47to move this strategy forward? And you

52:51know that creates the conditions for us

52:54to deliver on the KPIs. Um because again

52:57like we have some KPIs where we're like

52:58well we're not we're not making success

53:00on it because we don't have a budget for

53:01it right

53:02>> and things like that. So, you know,

53:06bringing [clears throat] back a draft

53:07update, that could be a helpful

53:09>> cross reference of like this is how we

53:12would frame this as a an important

53:14strategic priority or strategy for

53:17council and this would be the lever that

53:19you pull to move it forward.

53:21>> Um, because I think any one of these

53:22could probably be written in that

53:24fashion. Yeah. There. And ones that just

53:26don't fit, we would say I would propose

53:28that you eliminate this because this is

53:29like wholly staff.

53:32>> Got it. I think like that is super

53:34helpful to me. I think like if we and I

53:37don't want to get into the weeds, but if

53:38we could talk about like the 126 Main

53:40Street property, right? Like because

53:41we've had a number of conversations

53:43preceding my time at council about like

53:45I mean I think we're on our third RFP on

53:47that,

53:48>> right? And what I just even heard

53:51tonight, right, is like, well, that

53:52could be part of the larger outdoor

53:54recreation conversation about leveraging

53:56that property, but frankly, the

53:58conversations that I felt like it was a

54:00part of earlier was like, let's get that

54:01thing developed so that we can get some

54:03tax revenue, right? And um, you know, I

54:06put a note on there of like I think

54:09maybe it is time to I mean, it feels to

54:11me like that's an area where council

54:13could weigh in because we set a priority

54:14that's not achieved for any number of

54:17legitimate reasons. And so then it's

54:19like do we get to weigh in on what the

54:21change of the strategy is or you just is

54:23it just like no this [clears throat] is

54:24still a priority for us staff figure it

54:26out.

54:26>> Yeah. Well and that can be another um

54:29area where you have the leverage is

54:32telling staff this is your operational

54:34priority. But does when I look at, you

54:38know, I mean there are some ways like

54:40specific to 1216

54:42Main Street that fall into some of these

54:44other things. Campaign around Mont

54:45Pillar builds, a tax stabilization

54:47policy, you know, those are things that

54:49you would adopt to then help get to that

54:53um help move that forward.

54:56>> Yeah. I mean what I saw in the update

54:58right was that we'd like um draft RFP

55:01prepared but not released due to staff

55:03limits to negotiate any replies right so

55:07you know what does that mean does that

55:09mean that like we have to give more

55:10authority to staff to negotiate staff

55:11doesn't have the capacity to negotiate

55:13like

55:14>> yeah um

55:18I think the latter I mean we can

55:20negotiate project on this if anyone came

55:22forward with a proposal to it but we

55:25have to go out and actively cultivate

55:27that.

55:28>> Yeah. Okay. Then the last thing I

55:29promise I'm ever going to say about this

55:30is like I think this is a great

55:32opportunity to partner with the RDC,

55:34right? Like that's what RDC's do. And

55:36like if we don't have the capacity or

55:38right, then we should just be like,

55:39"Hey, great opportunity for partnership

55:41with the RDC." Like maybe give them the

55:44opportunity to run the RFP process and

55:45see what happens.

55:46>> Yeah. Okay. Well, if it works for

55:49everyone, I think the next round of

55:51conversation on this would be coming

55:52back with sort of those four cross

55:54reference of like policy, budget, you

55:56know, allocation, additional authorities

55:58or staff direction to staff, you know,

56:02um I think would be good. I'm not seeing

56:04so I want to kind of maybe focus on some

56:06of the ones that have some of the yellow

56:08like here campaign modillar builds. um

56:12if there's an amendment to this. I mean

56:13I feel like this is within you know the

56:14housing committee is moving towards

56:17doing this in terms of creating a

56:19marketed package of all the incentives

56:22that we would have around creating and

56:24building housing. But I'm curious

56:25>> I put that yellow I put that yellow

56:27there. Uh I'm not I don't know that

56:29maybe Carrie you could weigh in on this

56:30like I'm not sure that they are there.

56:33>> I I don't think they are at this point

56:35though. I think they could be, but I

56:37think it's still it doesn't feel to me

56:40like like the thing that has to happen

56:42right now at all. There's a lot of other

56:44pieces that need to be put into place

56:46before we can do that.

56:48>> I I just don't think that's on their

56:51radar, right? And then which is why it's

56:53like, well, is it is it if it is super

56:55important to us, then I think we need to

56:57provide more direction. But I should say

56:58I agree with Carrie that I feel like

57:01there's a lot moving.

57:04>> Okay. So even though this is yellow, is

57:06this the one that we're going to kind of

57:07pull off

57:09as a focus right now?

57:13>> I mean, even in the the update sheet,

57:16the the reason it stated for being read

57:19is it says it should [cough]

57:21should be assigned to the housing

57:22committee. So,

57:24>> um, you know, maybe that's the action,

57:27but that it I don't know if that means

57:29it stays on the priority list or if it

57:31says it goes goes to the housing

57:33committee and could reemerge as as a

57:35priority in the future based on what

57:37they do. Um, in some ways it feels like

57:40the red ones are maybe the most

57:42important ones to address because they

57:44all have their own reasons why they're

57:46stalled. And then it would probably be

57:50helpful to staff to know that like well

57:52it's not really a priority so let it

57:55continue to be stalled or it really is a

57:56priority. Let's figure out a way to

57:58unstuck it.

58:01>> Which is it?

58:02>> I

58:05to me that sounds like let's

58:09if if the answer is that it needs to be

58:12properly assigned to the housing

58:13committee as a priority then we do that

58:15and then see what they come back with.

58:17But at the moment, you know, if it I I

58:19don't know if that means that it stays

58:20on the list or not. Somebody else,

58:22please weigh in on it.

58:25>> I I mean, I'm not sure it's I I'm not

58:28sure I would want to send it to the

58:30housing committee right now and say, "Do

58:32this. Do this right now. Make this a top

58:34priority of yours. I think the housing

58:35committee is working really hard on

58:38>> identifying priorities." And I think

58:40they're making a lot of progress. And I

58:42that one doesn't feel to me like it's

58:45important. Is there the option to throw

58:46it to the parking lot?

58:48>> Yep.

58:48>> Yeah.

58:49>> I mean, it's a strategy to achieve a

58:50goal. And I think what we're saying is

58:52like it's not a strategy that anybody's

58:53ready to employ right now to achieve

58:54that goal. We have other strategies that

58:56are more effective. So, let's bold it.

58:57>> Yeah.

59:00>> I'm not as close to this being new to

59:02know what your build is, if it's an

59:06actual campaign or if it's a marketing

59:08campaign to tell the world with

59:09commentaries and so forth, we are open

59:12for business. We are open for housing.

59:14here's some of the good things we're

59:15doing and we should consider Montil a

59:18great place to come something like that.

59:20If it's that it's a communications issue

59:23as much as anything and it may not take

59:25a year to develop it might take a month

59:27of thinking as a staff um and I would

59:30encourage people to do it. I don't know

59:32that it needs you know some things you

59:35just do. Mhm. I think this comes

59:38together as some of these other things

59:40come together as the, you know, as we

59:42get tier 1A status, as our plan gets

59:45adopted, as the zoning amendments get

59:47done, as our tax stabilization policy

59:49gets done,

59:50>> then you got those become right, those

59:52become the story to tell. So, just put a

59:55note here, just hold future, but we may

59:57end up holding that off. I could really

59:59do that. I think the only one here that

1:00:01I'd give you some more input on is

1:00:04utilize recommendations from the housing

1:00:05needs assessment and develop a plan.

1:00:10Couple yellows.

1:00:13I will say I wholeheartedly agree with

1:00:14that. I think right now we have housing

1:00:17targets. We don't have a housing vision.

1:00:20And so the work is to build the housing

1:00:23vision. And you know that requires some

1:00:25of these components that we've all

1:00:27talked about. But um

1:00:31you know we know we want housing and we

1:00:33want sort of types of housing. We want

1:00:34some housing here but we don't sort of

1:00:36have a comprehensive like this is where

1:00:39and how and when and for who we would

1:00:41develop.

1:00:44Well, then it also seems we've we've

1:00:46needed so much housing of all types for

1:00:49so long that now there are several

1:00:52decentsized projects underway

1:00:55that where to focus effort for the next

1:00:58thing may be um

1:01:02may be revealed by the holes that are

1:01:04left after some of these current

1:01:06projects get filled. As CCR moves

1:01:08forward, as Isbel Circle moves forward,

1:01:11we'll see what actually emerges there

1:01:13and then have an idea of what to fill

1:01:14in.

1:01:18>> Plus, we're about to get another market

1:01:21stud.

1:01:22>> Yes.

1:01:24Okay, I'm going to just move this. We're

1:01:26going to get bogged down.

1:01:27>> That one does seem important to keep

1:01:28though. We just may have to work through

1:01:31how we want to clarify what it is that

1:01:33we want this strategy to particularly.

1:01:36>> Um okay.

1:01:43>> All right. Elbow.

1:01:44>> Okay.

1:01:46I think we got pushed the heart through

1:01:48the heart of her bunch. Here we have

1:01:50maintain a mix of housing types.

1:01:52Complete and implement the short-term

1:01:53rental registry. Reinvigorate the

1:01:55housing committee with clear goals.

1:01:57evaluated tax on different.

1:02:01Is it fair to say we can remove the

1:02:04reinvigorate the housing committee to

1:02:06accomplish?

1:02:06>> Yes.

1:02:10>> Now, these other two have have to deal

1:02:12with short-term

1:02:14rentals. Um I think, you know, we have

1:02:18this on the books. It's been unclear how

1:02:20much of a priority it is for council.

1:02:22Matt wants to come on up.

1:02:24>> Matt will tell you that

1:02:26We we don't have any short-term rentals

1:02:28in Mont

1:02:3168 of them. There is a service that the

1:02:34city can pay that will keep track of

1:02:37them and then send notices to the people

1:02:40who own them, but then that's an

1:02:42expenditure that the city council would

1:02:44have to approve. I can get you the city.

1:02:46I can make a presentation on another

1:02:48person the contract uh come and make a

1:02:50presentation. But there's a there's an

1:02:53easy way to fix this, but it costs some

1:02:55money.

1:02:57Yeah, but haven't you said in the

1:02:59committee meetings that that's really

1:03:00not a problem?

1:03:02>> It is really not a problem.

1:03:03>> Well, and I will say this was created

1:03:05prior to the housing assessment being

1:03:07done. So, you you got the report of the

1:03:10housing assessment from the CVRPC in the

1:03:13springtime that showed, you know,

1:03:16there's only a couple of dozen of

1:03:17short-term rentals. Many of them are in

1:03:20people's homes. They're not to me.

1:03:22>> That's not that should be gone both of

1:03:24them because it's not that's not an

1:03:26issue. Anybody that's followed housing

1:03:29in this city is going to tell you that's

1:03:30like six on the list. At least it's six

1:03:33on my list and it's a deep back six.

1:03:37>> I I would advocate for keeping it on our

1:03:41on our list. It may not be an urgent

1:03:42thing right now, but this is the kind of

1:03:44thing that can become a problem for our

1:03:46community if you don't kind of get ahead

1:03:49of it. and and and and so I would I

1:03:52don't want us to just say, "Oh, this is

1:03:54never going to be an issue a month for

1:03:55the year." Because I think it really

1:03:56could be in the future. I don't think

1:03:58that the registry is by itself very

1:04:02useful. Um I would prefer if we said,

1:04:07"Let's shove that, but prioritize

1:04:10exploring a short-term rental fee or,

1:04:14you know, something like that."

1:04:16How about [snorts] I might propose if we

1:04:18bring this back like explore

1:04:20disincentives to short-term rentals or

1:04:23um something

1:04:25>> um looking at that that goal one two

1:04:28it's maintaining a mix of housing types.

1:04:30So, two things. One, it seems like

1:04:32strategy 111 up there, which is about

1:04:35using the housing needs assessment, is

1:04:37maybe less about increasing the number

1:04:39of homes and making sure that we

1:04:41maintain the right mix of housing types.

1:04:43That that one could possibly move there

1:04:45to keep that goal alive and then retool

1:04:49the shortterm thing to just say monitor

1:04:53the amount and impact of short-term

1:04:56rentals on our housing stock. And that

1:04:59doesn't that doesn't specify creating a

1:05:02registry or a tax or disincentivizing.

1:05:05It just says to that it is a priority

1:05:08for us in order to maintain a mix of

1:05:11housing that we have a good sense of

1:05:14what if any impact short-term rentals

1:05:17have on us. How many do we have? If it's

1:05:1968 now and it's not a problem, fine. And

1:05:21if it turns into 300 and it does become

1:05:24a problem, then we will know that by

1:05:26just keeping that as as a as something.

1:05:32>> Well, I don't want us to wait until it's

1:05:34a problem to do something. No, that's

1:05:36why

1:05:36>> and then also defining what a problem

1:05:38is. is like if we have I'm not sure how

1:05:40many short-term rentals we have now that

1:05:42are owned by people who don't live in

1:05:45them who live out of state by private

1:05:47equity companies that are you know

1:05:49compared to how many are someone's got

1:05:52an apartment but in their garage that

1:05:54they're renting out as a short-term

1:05:55rental uh which is a totally has a

1:05:58totally different impact on our

1:06:00community and on our housing market but

1:06:02we don't really know what those are but

1:06:05the proposal from the housing committee

1:06:07a couple years ago was to restrict

1:06:09short-term rentals to just those owner

1:06:12occupied

1:06:13situations so that then we wouldn't have

1:06:15to think about um

1:06:18>> and the point of the registry was to

1:06:20discover

1:06:21>> right

1:06:21>> how many of each type we have

1:06:23>> but I think even if we don't have very

1:06:26many of the nonowner occupied ones

1:06:30that's not a reason to do nothing

1:06:34because that is going to change in the

1:06:36future that's the way we're headed So,

1:06:38>> so that's what my my suggestion was that

1:06:41we modify the short-term rental topic to

1:06:44just say to evaluate and monitor the the

1:06:48numbers and impact that short-term

1:06:50rentals are having on our housing stock.

1:06:52And so then we would hopefully be able

1:06:55to through that process know before it

1:06:57became a problem.

1:06:58>> And does that process involve what Matt

1:06:59was talking about or which requires

1:07:01budget or

1:07:03>> I'm going to say

1:07:04>> I don't know.

1:07:05>> Elmo. [laughter]

1:07:06Yeah, I'm gonna say this isn't important

1:07:09enough topic to waste this much.

1:07:11>> We can put it in the parking lot.

1:07:13>> When it was when it was first proposed,

1:07:14it was it part of it was that it was it

1:07:17would immediately convert to to

1:07:18long-term housing. Now, I don't know

1:07:20whether that's still the case. Not not

1:07:22all, but many significant number

1:07:26[clears throat] that the housing

1:07:27committee felt it was worth pursuing.

1:07:29Now, I don't know whether that's still

1:07:30the case.

1:07:30>> I think what I'm hearing, we need some

1:07:32more on like the problem definition. Um,

1:07:36>> I think it'd be great to have a staff

1:07:38presentation on this issue with from the

1:07:39housing committee in the future. So,

1:07:41council,

1:07:42>> I would also just point out too that,

1:07:45you know, you may want to retain the use

1:07:47of some of these because we don't have a

1:07:49whole lot of hotel rooms either in the

1:07:52city. So, there's some pulling pushing

1:07:55forward with your economic development

1:07:56goals.

1:07:57>> I I agree with Jim. Um, everything in

1:08:00the conversation says this isn't a key

1:08:02priority in the housing discussion. It's

1:08:04an element to be aware of. So, I would

1:08:07either put it lower on the list or or

1:08:09put it in the parking lot for for when

1:08:11it is more urgent.

1:08:14Okay. We may not even be on some of us

1:08:16may not even be on the council when it's

1:08:18a problem. And we're trying to tie

1:08:20people's hands and dealing with it in

1:08:22the future. Nobody here can predict the

1:08:25future, not even one year out. So to

1:08:29think about the future is almost useless

1:08:31in these days because it's just changing

1:08:33so fast. AI is going to change

1:08:36everything.

1:08:39>> Okay, I'm going to move us on um to goal

1:08:42three. Increase support for homeowners,

1:08:44developers, and nonprofit partners in

1:08:45the creation of housing that would not

1:08:47otherwise be provided by the private

1:08:49market. We have evaluate instituting a

1:08:51building tax, organize an event for

1:08:53homeowners, developers, and nonprofits,

1:08:55developer incentive language, amend the

1:08:58housing trust fund, and fully fund the

1:08:59housing trust fund.

1:09:01>> Those last two I want to make a comment

1:09:03on. Nobody has applied for the housing

1:09:06task force housing fund.

1:09:09>> So that's something to think of at

1:09:11budget time. Nobody has even applied. So

1:09:16why are we going to put another h

1:09:17100,000 in when it can probably go to

1:09:20somewhere else that's more useful?

1:09:22Nobody's even applying

1:09:26>> that. Yep, that is true. Um, do we want

1:09:29to talk more about those two goals? I

1:09:32think we should collapse them into one

1:09:33strategy.

1:09:34>> Collapse into one for sure. [snorts]

1:09:41>> Sounds good. Yeah, I think we should

1:09:44>> and I think we should talk about it at

1:09:45budget time and like we'll learn now

1:09:47more about why people maybe haven't

1:09:48applied.

1:09:49>> Yeah,

1:09:50>> maybe because there's not enough money

1:09:51there for people to get enough to make a

1:09:53difference to their project

1:09:54>> or that it takes more than one year to

1:09:56build the pipeline.

1:09:58>> We should talk about that at budget

1:10:00time.

1:10:00>> Well, yeah, because I'm just thinking

1:10:02I'm not going to vote to put more money

1:10:05into it just to have it sit.

1:10:07>> Yeah.

1:10:07>> I'd rather put it somewhere else like

1:10:09roads or something. Well, and you do I

1:10:12mean here you have a very clear policy

1:10:14lever about what that money is

1:10:16[clears throat] going to you adopted a

1:10:17policy about how you wanted to use it.

1:10:19You can change that anytime.

1:10:20>> Yeah.

1:10:21>> So, you know, there is a flexibility

1:10:23here that if we're new,

1:10:24>> that's a budget topic.

1:10:25>> Say, well, we want to get rid of some of

1:10:27these limitations on this fund to be

1:10:29able to use that. Um, I'm going to

1:10:31propose that we get rid of developer

1:10:32incentive language because I think we've

1:10:34already addressed that in

1:10:36>> some of the conversations.

1:10:37>> Sounds good.

1:10:38>> Um, and then, uh, I think we've deleted

1:10:42organized an event for homeowners,

1:10:43developers, etc. because this has

1:10:45already been

1:10:46>> done. This would also sort of fall into

1:10:48any kind of communications campaigned to

1:10:51these.

1:10:52>> And so then the last one here is

1:10:54evaluate instituting a vacant building

1:10:56tax. Um,

1:10:59I think tax is very specific to what you

1:11:03might the conversation you might end up

1:11:04having um around all this. And I note

1:11:07that there's a lot of interest in

1:11:08keeping it.

1:11:10>> We might want to

1:11:11>> change the word tax to policy and then

1:11:14or ordinance or whatever the correct

1:11:16word is there. the

1:11:22>> but I mean even if it winds up not be I

1:11:24mean that's even sort of prescriptive of

1:11:26what outcome we want it to be some sort

1:11:28of policy

1:11:29>> whether it winds up being a fee or

1:11:30something else.

1:11:31>> All right, you guys are going to end up

1:11:32with a very tight

1:11:36>> sounds good.

1:11:37>> Okay, we're going to try to move through

1:11:38these other ones a little more quickly

1:11:39and we might do that to help. Um, okay.

1:11:42Could you take the Yeah, we're going to

1:11:44Are we I will note for infrastructure

1:11:46you have a lot of green on the KPI. So,

1:11:49we should have a checkin about this, but

1:11:51you want to talk about the strategies

1:11:53for it.

1:12:09Just put it on top of

1:12:13Can you take Do you want to take a

1:12:14picture of that before we cover it up?

1:12:17>> Sure.

1:12:45Okay.

1:12:46Okay. So, under your priority area for

1:12:50infrastructure, you have four goals.

1:12:53Meet steadyst state plan paving. Meet

1:12:56steadyst state plan water lines.

1:12:59maintain the quality and quantity of

1:13:00water including water supply treatment

1:13:02plant and storage system. Maintain

1:13:05responsible administration of the water

1:13:06fund and increase funding to the water

1:13:08fund to achieve steady state

1:13:10maintenance.

1:13:12Um,

1:13:14let's see. I will note that

1:13:17there is a recommendation from staff

1:13:19about

1:13:21also addressing steady state for our

1:13:23other systems over the years because we

1:13:26have a sewer system that also will need

1:13:28this. We have storm water um

1:13:32infrastructure, sidewalk infrastructure

1:13:35>> as well. So,

1:13:38has staff determined what those studies

1:13:39what that steady state would be? I don't

1:13:42know. I'll invite public works people to

1:13:44come up.

1:13:46>> Yes, we have. Um, for sidewalks, I don't

1:13:49have to off top my head, but it's like

1:13:51we have 25 miles of sidewalk. We need to

1:13:54do I think it's like a half mile a year,

1:13:57some of it depending on whether it's

1:13:58asphalt or concrete. Sidewalks are

1:14:01actually this year with all the funding

1:14:02that we put in in [snorts] related to

1:14:04the paving program, we're getting really

1:14:06close to the steady state marker, but um

1:14:09we feel like we also have to hit that in

1:14:11the storm water system. The utility has

1:14:13really not advanced because of our

1:14:15financial systems. Uh so like storm

1:14:17water is one that we're not targeting,

1:14:19right? Sidewalks and roads this past

1:14:22year were good, but we need to make sure

1:14:24that we're maintaining that moving

1:14:26forward. Um, same with our traffic

1:14:28systems, lighting systems, bridges, all

1:14:31kinds.

1:14:32>> I totally agree.

1:14:35>> Yeah,

1:14:36>> it doesn't help us look at one thing,

1:14:38right? And just focus on this. We're not

1:14:41addressing buildings or facilities or

1:14:44anything else. So,

1:14:45>> that was where that comment came from is

1:14:47we need the holistic approach making

1:14:49sure that we're not leaving one thing

1:14:50behind.

1:14:51>> Yeah, good job.

1:14:52>> Makes sense.

1:14:53>> Good job. Yeah, I'll point out that of

1:14:56all the things I think there's the most

1:14:59green

1:15:00uh green rose under the infrastructure

1:15:04that

1:15:05>> Yeah,

1:15:06>> we're hitting a lot of targets.

1:15:07>> So, can we just talk a little bit more

1:15:08about that steady state then? So, like

1:15:10what would it take for us to be able to

1:15:13understand the relationship between

1:15:15different right like if everything's

1:15:16going to have a steady state goal,

1:15:19right? then we're still going to need to

1:15:20pull levers or prioritize ones over the

1:15:23other, right? But like at what would it

1:15:25take for staff to be able to develop

1:15:27steadyst state plans for all the things

1:15:28that I just mentioned?

1:15:31>> I mean, is that a long-term goal or is

1:15:33that something that's like

1:15:34>> Well, it's a long-term goal. It's also

1:15:37um

1:15:38>> it's also long-term funding dedication.

1:15:41>> So,

1:15:42>> it's a real longterm goal.

1:15:43>> Yeah. So I I think that what the what

1:15:46makes sense to include here is

1:15:48developing and articulating those plans.

1:15:51And

1:15:51>> that's what I mean like not that we're

1:15:53going to meet city steady state in the

1:15:55next budget. It's cycle. I mean like

1:15:56what would it know what would it take

1:15:58for us to know what it would take to

1:15:59reach steady state?

1:16:00>> I think I mean I I think they know but I

1:16:02think being able to present that get

1:16:04that adopted start to be able to build

1:16:06the funds out for that is what this what

1:16:09the goal the strategies for that goal.

1:16:12>> Great.

1:16:12>> Yeah. I I like what Zach said. I think

1:16:15that the the holistic approach

1:16:17[clears throat]

1:16:18is how it should be done. I mean, it's

1:16:20not all going to be done in a year. It

1:16:22might not be done in some of our

1:16:25lifetimes, but it's something you keep

1:16:27moving forward. We're talking water.

1:16:31>> Yeah. We're not making any decisions

1:16:32tonight, but one decision I think that

1:16:35that this conversation makes clear is

1:16:37that um that our city manager will be

1:16:41doing a reddraft of this to bring back

1:16:43to us towards a decision, which we may

1:16:46want to change some of what comes, but

1:16:48that you may want to talk to your

1:16:50managerial staff in in the

1:16:52infrastructure arena and and devise the

1:16:55language that you think would best fit

1:16:57those those steadystate categories.

1:17:02Yes, I think we could do that. I think

1:17:05um I think that correctly captures what

1:17:08we should be doing. A lot of these

1:17:09things are really tactical. I don't

1:17:11think they belong in a strategy under a

1:17:13whole you know briefing council on

1:17:16cityst state plans. I mean that's

1:17:18>> that seems

1:17:19>> that's not

1:17:20true.

1:17:21>> I guess if you have a staff that's like

1:17:22never talked to you about these things

1:17:24and you need to present that information

1:17:26to them to get it you know get

1:17:28[clears throat] forward that would be

1:17:29relevant but I I think there's just a

1:17:31lot of these particularly even under

1:17:33this steady state paving plan that we

1:17:36can get rid of as tactical things and

1:17:39focus you all more on some of the

1:17:42strategies. Could we could we maybe

1:17:44start with the bottom three since

1:17:46they're so lean and then then tackle the

1:17:48big one at the end?

1:17:49>> Like the the bottom the the very the two

1:17:51four I mean there are three of them

1:17:54there and they either have greens or

1:17:57green and yellow. So

1:18:00>> yeah I mean

1:18:02you know 2.42 is study raising rates

1:18:06like which means study the possibility

1:18:08of raising the rates and then 2.43 43 is

1:18:12conduct a rate study.

1:18:14>> Yeah.

1:18:17>> Sorry, it's garbage night.

1:18:20>> Um

1:18:22I would I would suggest we co-op.

1:18:25>> Let's do that.

1:18:26>> Um you know again similar we have a

1:18:29bunch of those listed up here under

1:18:31maintain the quality and quantity of

1:18:33water including supply treatment

1:18:35storage. Analyze best use of chip plan

1:18:38for formation of the stovewater utility.

1:18:40homeowner outreach and education. I

1:18:43think all of these actually are three

1:18:46independent

1:18:48um goals. Now again, I think some of

1:18:51this is like analyze best use of CHIP.

1:18:54This that doesn't really fall clearly

1:18:57into a budget, a policy authority or you

1:19:01know direction to staff necessarily for

1:19:03for those. So I'm not sure that that's

1:19:07you know that's a that's how you get

1:19:09somewhere. That's not a strategy to get

1:19:10to your

1:19:11>> Well, that's for housing, isn't it?

1:19:12>> Well, but we the chip is actually to run

1:19:14the infrastructure

1:19:16>> to house or some other project, right?

1:19:18Um, now plan for the formation of the

1:19:20stormwater utility. This is going to

1:19:22require council leadership. I think it's

1:19:24an important one to keep

1:19:26>> that. Yes. Y

1:19:28>> there is a yellow here. How do we want

1:19:29to amend that?

1:19:33I think I might have put that there just

1:19:35because I had questions about like what

1:19:36are we, you know, what are we doing

1:19:38because we've been talking about it for

1:19:39a long time.

1:19:40>> Yeah. And this was all put on hold with

1:19:41the flood, right? I think there's like

1:19:43>> So that sounds less like amend than

1:19:46continue, but we need more information

1:19:48in order to be able to do that, right?

1:19:50>> Yep. Okay.

1:19:52>> That's the cost. I think this one we

1:19:54would keep but reword um relative to

1:19:58chip to actually make it more of an

1:20:00actionable strategy for you all.

1:20:01>> So those yellow dots in the margin with

1:20:04the [clears throat] funny numbers on it

1:20:05were all put on there by me because

1:20:07they're all sort of

1:20:09>> outreach communication education to the

1:20:12community in one way or another. And it

1:20:14seems like

1:20:16we don't, you know, we don't need them

1:20:18repeated in each. We we need a comm

1:20:20maybe we need a communication strategy,

1:20:22but we don't we don't need uh six of

1:20:25them or seven of them. Um

1:20:29and and how you know how how is that how

1:20:32is that done? Um is the way we're doing

1:20:35it working or I mean what why why do we

1:20:38have so many? Um, did we feel at the

1:20:41time that

1:20:43the public wasn't getting the

1:20:44information they needed?

1:20:46>> Has that improved?

1:20:49Um,

1:20:53>> I don't know. Does staff want to weigh

1:20:55in on that? I wasn't here when it all

1:20:56developed out these communication tools.

1:20:59Um, [clears throat]

1:21:00I do think we we definitely have been

1:21:04more strategic and intentional and

1:21:06consistent and frequent about

1:21:08communication relative to all DPW

1:21:11projects that cross this thing. It is a,

1:21:14you know, we see it as part of our

1:21:15provided provision of service. Um, now I

1:21:19think some things like if there's a

1:21:20specific campaign around education that

1:21:23you in the community you feel like the

1:21:26community is not getting that needs,

1:21:27that's helpful direction to us, but I'm

1:21:30not sure that's the case with kind of

1:21:32all

1:21:32>> Can that be put into um the DBW report?

1:21:37>> Well, a lot of it already is.

1:21:40>> Yeah. I mean, I love that report. So

1:21:43>> S I feel like what I hear you saying is

1:21:44that it's like not necessary for this

1:21:46plan to be talking about communication

1:21:48under every single thing

1:21:49>> communication is important doing it.

1:21:52>> I mean is everybody reading the DPW

1:21:54report? Probably not. So is there

1:21:56something else we should be doing in

1:21:57addition to that? You know I I don't

1:21:59know. We need to find out how well

1:22:01that's working

1:22:03>> and are there other avenues that people

1:22:06are using that you know we're not we're

1:22:08not hitting with our information. But

1:22:10yeah, we we don't

1:22:12>> we don't need it scattered through us.

1:22:15>> It seems like they can be consolidated

1:22:16and turned into a list and said

1:22:19systematically communicate regularly

1:22:21with the public on black.

1:22:23>> Yeah.

1:22:24>> Early and often, right?

1:22:25>> Yeah. I mean, a lot of that now.

1:22:29>> Okay, that makes sense to me. I see how

1:22:31you're combining all these different

1:22:33>> is that then all those yellow dots being

1:22:35combined under a new goal of 25 which is

1:22:38just continue proactive communication

1:22:41with the public on all of these relevant

1:22:43topics

1:22:43>> or evaluate the effectiveness of of

1:22:46methods we're currently using

1:22:48>> and add new ones as needed. You know,

1:22:52>> you know, I have to say like I don't

1:22:53think that that needs to be like a goal

1:22:55of this strategic plan,

1:22:57right? And I feel like this this

1:22:59reflects a moment in time when I think

1:23:01there was potentially dissatisfaction

1:23:03with

1:23:04>> communication, right? And like

1:23:06>> I think we could say like you know what

1:23:08actually our priorities right now hasn't

1:23:10these things and they got the

1:23:10communication thing covered.

1:23:12>> Yeah. Considerably better. Yeah.

1:23:14>> Anecdotally

1:23:16people are happy about the communication

1:23:18they're getting from DBW.

1:23:20>> Yeah.

1:23:20>> And also no matter what you do, it'll

1:23:22never quite [clears throat] be enough.

1:23:24Good

1:23:24>> work on great work.

1:23:28Okay. All right. We can we can wrestle

1:23:31with that when we come back with an

1:23:32updated draft two law. I think what I

1:23:35think I heard is to collapse two and

1:23:37three and since they really are talking

1:23:40about all the water projects and water

1:23:42fund um water lines build out are more

1:23:47of a holistic steady state and then for

1:23:50in the interest of moving us along so we

1:23:52don't get bogged down I think we can

1:23:53collapse a bunch of these steadystate

1:23:55planning and paving to really be like

1:23:58what is the council's level here um

1:24:00around these because a lot of this stuff

1:24:02is you

1:24:04kind of focused on how are we tactically

1:24:07moving these things forward and some

1:24:09things that we frankly have already

1:24:11done. You know, establishing your

1:24:12fiveyear CIP plan for paving. Um

1:24:15>> some things aren't communicated just by

1:24:17when people see their streets are paid.

1:24:21>> Oh, they're doing something.

1:24:23>> Yeah. Okay. Is there anything from the

1:24:26KPIs that people don't want to lose

1:24:29um that you think make sense to

1:24:31transform into a strategy?

1:24:34We can revisit this when we bring back a

1:24:36draft too, just to like, okay, we're not

1:24:39moving these over. Does that make sense

1:24:40to everybody? These are sort of our

1:24:42internally facing um metrics.

1:24:46>> Yeah, they're internally facing and then

1:24:48they come to us when there's issues with

1:24:50them or when you have new ideas for

1:24:52implementation.

1:24:54And so it doesn't feel like it's

1:24:56essential to the strategic plan so much

1:24:58as it is internal operations.

1:25:00>> I agree with that. And those are some of

1:25:03the most satisfying items.

1:25:05>> Yeah.

1:25:05>> Because they have real numbers on them

1:25:06and you could see that like achieve,

1:25:09>> right? Or super close.

1:25:10>> Well, and I mean I will say like

1:25:12something like you know water boil

1:25:15notices. I know that there becomes

1:25:17interest in council on certain data

1:25:19points in ways that that isn't true for

1:25:22all the data points, you know. So, I I

1:25:25think what we can do as staff is really

1:25:27look at these and say, "All right, as

1:25:29opposed to just getting rid of them all,

1:25:30are there some that we know we're going

1:25:32to get asked for reporting out on

1:25:33metrics that make sense to kind of call

1:25:35that out in your strategic plan?"

1:25:37Because that's your indication to the

1:25:39public that it's an important thing that

1:25:41you're monitoring in in an elevated way.

1:25:45I think that's true. And I also think

1:25:47that inherent in this is that we're not

1:25:51reneging on responsibility for

1:25:53oversight. We're looking for our

1:25:55executive staff to provide most of that

1:25:58oversight and to bring us issues, but

1:26:00also that there should be a significant

1:26:03report to the public at the end of the

1:26:05year that documents the KPIs that have

1:26:09been used in all the departments and

1:26:12what we're doing.

1:26:14So, we want to look at all that.

1:26:19>> Okay.

1:26:20>> One of the things that was in

1:26:21>> I think this one is going to look a bit

1:26:23different when we bring it back.

1:26:24>> Good.

1:26:27>> You need any clarifying

1:26:29questions? All right. Keep us moving. I

1:26:33just voice that entire.

1:26:40>> All right. Thank you.

1:26:43Make sure that

1:27:11All right, this one looks like a

1:27:12Christmas tree.

1:27:15Lots of greens and reds here.

1:27:19All right. Under your priority area for

1:27:21economic development, you have three

1:27:22goals. Increase the

1:27:25quantity, quality, and affordability of

1:27:27our housing and child care as they are

1:27:28essential to a thriving, successful

1:27:30workforce. Additionally, maintain a mix

1:27:32of land uses and improving access to

1:27:34affordable public transportation are key

1:27:36to a fair and equitable access to

1:27:38employment for all residents.

1:27:41increase the number of local businesses

1:27:42through retention and expansion programs

1:27:44as well as support for startups and

1:27:46entrepreneurship with a goal of

1:27:47increasing the number of full-time jobs

1:27:49by 100 per year. Continue to improve our

1:27:53business and economic clients to

1:27:54encourage and support businesses.

1:27:58Okay,

1:28:00those are wordier.

1:28:05So, why don't we start at the

1:28:07[clears throat] top here

1:28:10where

1:28:13let's see create a child care action

1:28:16plan. Develop a comprehensive plan to

1:28:18address the city's child care needs.

1:28:20That one is predominantly red as is

1:28:23support the childare program development

1:28:24through the work of the childare task

1:28:26force.

1:28:28So, let's [snorts] talk about those.

1:28:30I will say staff is not actively working

1:28:33on this in a robust way. Um you know I

1:28:37think due to capacity constraints

1:28:39currently.

1:28:44So child care task force we um sub share

1:28:49our uh recommendation with the council

1:28:52and the city staff and the last time I

1:28:54asked

1:28:57they weren't working on it because of

1:28:59the capacity I think so I don't know

1:29:02what to do about it but

1:29:05um it is very important

1:29:09to understand that if there are not

1:29:12enough child your options for people.

1:29:21Yeah, it's okay. No, it makes them um

1:29:25very challenging to move and live in

1:29:27Melier

1:29:29because people either work where they

1:29:32can uh send their kids to child care or

1:29:35they live where they can send their

1:29:38child care uh kids to child care.

1:29:41>> Right? So the suggestions are already

1:29:44are submitted. So it is city staff

1:29:48[cough]

1:29:48item priority to check yeah we can make

1:29:51this things happen. We cannot and again

1:29:54this one is in the city plan too.

1:29:56>> So child care and increasing it and

1:30:00creating a plan. It's in the fiveear

1:30:02city plan.

1:30:05Carrie,

1:30:05>> I agree with all of that and and I also

1:30:08don't feel it strongly that that

1:30:11particular those two need to be part of

1:30:13our strategic plan at this point. I did

1:30:16put a green on looking to expand the

1:30:20city's childare offerings because I

1:30:23don't think we need any more studying to

1:30:24know that we can't use more childare.

1:30:27Um, and I I know that there are many

1:30:31logistical issues around the city

1:30:34expanding its childcare offerings, but I

1:30:36would like to kind of keep that on our

1:30:38list of things that we might be able to

1:30:39do because that's a very concrete way.

1:30:41We're already providing some forms of

1:30:43child care. If we could figure out ways

1:30:45to expand that and strengthen it, we

1:30:47know that that would benefit the

1:30:48community

1:30:50and it's within our control to do it.

1:30:55>> Okay. And I think that could clearly

1:30:56come back as a under your kind of budget

1:30:59authorities policies type of tools.

1:31:04I have a question that may feel like a

1:31:07hot take, which is that I mean if if the

1:31:11city

1:31:13if the city is doing our damnedest to do

1:31:16roads, water, police, fire, some parks

1:31:20and wreck when we can and there are

1:31:23schools and there are other potential

1:31:27partners that could do this lift. Is a

1:31:29city-run child care system really

1:31:33Is is that is that the best move for us

1:31:37as the municipal government as a

1:31:39community? Totally recognize all that.

1:31:42The question is, is the municipal

1:31:44government the right place to do that or

1:31:47is [snorts] it similar to um services

1:31:51for the unhoused where we really want to

1:31:54lean into partnerships with other

1:31:56entities that are really expert in that

1:31:58rather than us trying to become

1:31:59childcare experts. And also it says

1:32:01completed both of them.

1:32:05So it is done according to this one. So

1:32:07we don't have to discuss about it. Both

1:32:10strategy 3.1.4

1:32:13and 3.1.5

1:32:15they are both completed.

1:32:16>> Well I think what it says is creating a

1:32:19child care action plan and the work of

1:32:21the childcare task force had been

1:32:23>> completed. Right.

1:32:25>> Yeah. Completed.

1:32:26>> Yeah. So they can removed from the list

1:32:30because they are dumb according to this

1:32:32one. I don't know.

1:32:34>> Do we want to include meet steady I'm

1:32:36going to change the topic. Do we want to

1:32:38include meet steadyst state paving plan

1:32:39under economic development?

1:32:41>> How do we feel about cross reference?

1:32:44>> It feels feels redundant. I mean that's

1:32:48>> Yeah.

1:32:49>> Okay. Um almost like keep in number two

1:32:55develop and implement a new economic

1:32:57development strategic plan.

1:33:01So I'd say this, you know, we came to

1:33:03you all wanting to develop out the

1:33:06program around all-around adventure as a

1:33:07fourth, you know, pillar in our economy

1:33:10for outdoor wreck. Um

1:33:13so we intend to work on this. It will

1:33:15require

1:33:17your policy input and budget authorities

1:33:19to move those forward. Um, but I note

1:33:23that no one put a sticker on it. So,

1:33:26it's important for us to check it.

1:33:28>> There's Oh, sorry. There's a suggestion

1:33:31uh submitted to the council and city

1:33:33staff. Uh, there was a economic

1:33:35development

1:33:37>> um subcommittee. So, me and Adrian

1:33:41served on it.

1:33:42>> Mhm.

1:33:43So for this one strategy 3.18

1:33:47if we can check that and probably if we

1:33:50already talk about this and how we can

1:33:51do it because it says on on hold right

1:33:55funding pulled from the current budget.

1:33:58>> So do we we have an economic development

1:34:00committee? It was a subcommittee like

1:34:03city council subcommittee and we uh

1:34:06worked for almost two months and we

1:34:08submitted our first suggestion what to

1:34:12do for uh I think it was a six month uh

1:34:16plan

1:34:18and I yeah I don't know what happened

1:34:20afterward

1:34:22>> Kelly can I ask a question about this so

1:34:24of um we say uh develop and implement a

1:34:27new economic development strategic plan

1:34:30>> do you envision vision that at what

1:34:32based on what you just said about

1:34:34expanding the planning around the all of

1:34:36around adventure campaign or is it

1:34:38similar to

1:34:40um the plan you know I think like fair

1:34:42weather consulting had done a economic

1:34:43development plan for the city 10 years

1:34:45ago is are we thinking something more

1:34:48comprehensive like that or are we

1:34:49talking about oh no we've already got

1:34:51this all-around adventure idea and we

1:34:52want to build out a strategy around that

1:34:54because those feel pretty different

1:34:56>> yeah I mean it would be helpful for me

1:34:58to understand why you all put this on

1:35:00here in this way if you were thinking

1:35:02about what you were thinking because

1:35:03when you developed this at the time we

1:35:05weren't talking comprehensively about

1:35:10campaign as far as I know looking at

1:35:12Alec and Matt because I wasn't about it

1:35:16>> no right

1:35:17>> yeah I mean so we we were talking about

1:35:20it comprehensively pre flood and then we

1:35:23stopped talking about it for about three

1:35:25years and then we just started talking

1:35:27about it again we present it to so

1:35:29That's kind of where when we last did

1:35:32the council retreat, we were sort of

1:35:34like, hey, we'd love to bring this back.

1:35:35>> Totally. Yeah,

1:35:36>> we haven't been working on it, but we

1:35:38could.

1:35:39>> Yeah, that's great. Like I think when

1:35:42I'm saying comprehensively, I mean like

1:35:43all around a venture campaign is like an

1:35:45economic development strategy within a

1:35:47more comprehensive thing that relates to

1:35:50housing, industry, what higher

1:35:51education, I don't know, whatever, all

1:35:53the different sectors of the economy,

1:35:55right? Whereas outdoor recreation is

1:35:56like one sector of the economy that has

1:35:58ripple effects. So my question is is

1:36:01this strategy around building out an

1:36:03economic development strategy for that

1:36:05sector of our economy or are we talking

1:36:07about the the staff you know maybe our

1:36:11CD specialist wants to weigh in on this

1:36:13like would would love to have like a

1:36:15comprehensive economic development

1:36:16strategy for the city which many cities

1:36:19have.

1:36:20>> Yeah, I think that's what it was as

1:36:22[clears throat] originally. Yeah.

1:36:28not hearing from staff. I think there

1:36:31may be a middle ground between a major a

1:36:34lot of those comprehensive strategic

1:36:36planning processes around the future of

1:36:38bureau come economy just kind of get

1:36:40done and then not much happens after

1:36:42that. I'd rather see a a five point

1:36:44action plan from the city around steps

1:36:47that could be taken to drive economic

1:36:49development. And I think that city staff

1:36:51could do that with the RDC, with Richard

1:36:54Amore, the new leader of the RDC, who's

1:36:56got great expertise in detailing those

1:36:58kinds of things so that it could be done

1:37:00in much shorter order. And again, it

1:37:02would be it wouldn't be a long involved

1:37:05process of of debate, but it would come

1:37:08to city council and public would have

1:37:10the opportunity to reflect on on those

1:37:12action steps

1:37:13>> and it would help to guide city

1:37:15community and economic development

1:37:16staff.

1:37:18We didn't have a map when we put this

1:37:20together.

1:37:21>> So

1:37:22>> yeah, I mean I would say for both of

1:37:25those comments like the outdoor

1:37:26recreation plan, we have like you know

1:37:29evidence-based strategies that have been

1:37:32implemented in other communities. Like

1:37:34if we were to do a comprehensive out

1:37:37economic development plan, it would

1:37:38probably sort of like the outdirect

1:37:40piece would be like the piece that we

1:37:42already have. I don't think we would

1:37:43learn a lot more. Maybe. So, I think

1:37:46what that piece is is like, okay, here's

1:37:48a small piece of our economic

1:37:49development plan, Matt and I can work on

1:37:52that, if if you all wanted to take on a

1:37:56bigger economic development plan that

1:37:57could stand as a separate item. And I I

1:38:00think this item is like this is a piece

1:38:03that's pretty baked. Should we work on

1:38:06it or not? And

1:38:08>> also, your ally is working on something

1:38:11too.

1:38:12>> Yeah. Matt

1:38:15I also think

1:38:20so I'm new to Vermont here. I don't know

1:38:23all the economic development

1:38:24opportunities that the state has but I

1:38:27go to a lot of the conferences that talk

1:38:30about these issues and I think that this

1:38:31is a challenge for the entire state.

1:38:35That [clears throat] said, I also know

1:38:37that like in the last month, an enormous

1:38:40opportunity for Montilar has arisen kind

1:38:42of clear out of the blue that we could

1:38:44never have anticipated. And so while

1:38:48developing a plan is something that I

1:38:49can do or work on with the state to

1:38:54develop that's time taken away from

1:38:57diving in on the specific projects which

1:39:00is kind of how we got to the EDC and

1:39:03like oh here's money we can spend this

1:39:06money on something we've got and then

1:39:08invest my time at house time in that.

1:39:13And so I guess this is where your

1:39:16guidance would be helpful. Would it be

1:39:17helpful for me to spend my time

1:39:19developing a plan when there are already

1:39:22opportunities that would never have been

1:39:23captured in the plan or are already

1:39:26ready to be worked on?

1:39:30>> The ladder.

1:39:33>> I I think it would be great though if we

1:39:36I would agree with that. like the latter

1:39:38like honestly like I don't think we need

1:39:39a sense document for the for the for the

1:39:42city right but I do think we should be

1:39:45able to clearly articulate what is the

1:39:47economic development strategy for the

1:39:49city

1:39:50>> right like and maybe it's like a focus

1:39:53on outdoor recreation and or the nexus

1:39:55between outdoor recreation and our

1:39:56downtown like whatever there's all kinds

1:39:58of but we need to be able to articulate

1:40:00it right [snorts] can we say right now

1:40:02what our economic development strategy

1:40:03is for the city of Montpielar

1:40:05>> I cannot

1:40:06>> and I think it's important to be able to

1:40:07do that. And I think with the the with

1:40:10with the RDC kind of being reintegrated

1:40:12with a new executive director, there's

1:40:14an opportunity for us to be able to

1:40:15articulate that to say, "Hey, we've

1:40:17identified this work, this opportunity

1:40:19to move forward. How does the RBC help

1:40:21us do that?" Like, so getting back to

1:40:24this, I think [clears throat] maybe it's

1:40:26not development new economic development

1:40:28strategic plan. Maybe it's just clearly

1:40:30articulate economic development

1:40:32strategy.

1:40:33Mhm.

1:40:34>> Yeah. This is one I think we could do do

1:40:38better work on staff on how to

1:40:41>> how to suggest something for you around

1:40:43this with more clarity.

1:40:44>> Well, particularly given limited

1:40:46resources. I mean, I think the point

1:40:49Matt's making is is well taken. I mean,

1:40:51part part of the way we learn about what

1:40:52we don't have is by pursu pursuing

1:40:55opportunities that arise and we're

1:40:56saying, "Oh, we could do this if we had

1:40:59X, Y, and Z." so that you know they mesh

1:41:01together and while the opportunity

1:41:04before the opportunity goes away we need

1:41:07to figure out how how staff spends

1:41:09spends their time. So I I mean we need

1:41:11we need a little bit of both. I think

1:41:14>> um I I agree it'd be it'd be great to

1:41:16have a an overall plan but I I think we

1:41:19need to pursue the stuff that pops up at

1:41:20least enough to evaluate and see

1:41:23>> what we don't you know what we don't

1:41:25have that we really need.

1:41:27>> I hear that. I would just say though too

1:41:29like I think

1:41:31for what it's worth my experience from

1:41:32economic development it's like the

1:41:34communities that have a vision for what

1:41:35their strate like what they who they

1:41:37want to be. Are we going to be the

1:41:39center the lo you know the local food

1:41:40capital of Vermont? Are we going to be

1:41:41the arts and culture center of Vermont?

1:41:43Are we going to be the outdoor

1:41:44recreation center of Vermont? Like the

1:41:46communities that can articulate that

1:41:47clear vision are the ones that funders

1:41:50and state agencies line up behind

1:41:52because they know that there's a plan,

1:41:54right? So to be purely opportunistic and

1:41:57say this thing pops up, let's go for it.

1:42:00That's not in my experience, that's not

1:42:02how you really leverage momentum.

1:42:05>> I I agree and I I'm not endorsing that.

1:42:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

1:42:10>> I think when we bring this back, we're

1:42:11going to make a particular effort around

1:42:14this conversation. I think a lot of

1:42:16others we can speed quickly through that

1:42:18this one will merit a more robust.

1:42:22>> Thank you. I think we can lay out the

1:42:23landscape of what's been discussed about

1:42:25what the you know where was what was the

1:42:27generation of these what did the

1:42:29subcommittee say how is that all in this

1:42:32conversation is that right okay um

1:42:35reading on 8:00 and we have two other

1:42:37big things to talk about so um I want to

1:42:40move this along um under increase the

1:42:44number of local businesses through

1:42:45retention and expansion we have two here

1:42:48on tax stabilization

1:42:50Um, you know, we've talked about this in

1:42:53our housing goals as well. I think we

1:42:56are going to continue to work on tax

1:42:58stabilization. I would suggest we remove

1:43:00the strategy around marketing that that

1:43:02sort of collapses into that discussion

1:43:04we had about whether we need to

1:43:06articulate the communications [laughter]

1:43:08goals. Um, I note here there are several

1:43:11red dots around developing and employing

1:43:13a concier service concier service around

1:43:16a centralized point of contact for

1:43:17business development. Um,

1:43:20and do we remove this as a priority is

1:43:23what I'm sensing.

1:43:24>> That's what it looks like.

1:43:26>> Okay.

1:43:27>> Okay.

1:43:29Do that quickly.

1:43:32Here we have two here on here that talk

1:43:35about a um

1:43:39talk about some loan funds. one partner

1:43:42with Mont Pillar Resiliency Commission

1:43:45considering the creation of a matching

1:43:460% interest loans fund to encourage

1:43:49businesses to flood in to invest in

1:43:51flood mitigation efforts. And then

1:43:54there's a second one of creating a plan

1:43:56to develop a economic development

1:43:58revolving loan fund. I don't see a lot

1:44:00of energy around either of these though

1:44:02there is a question here that says does

1:44:04this need to be with the um

1:44:08>> resiliency? Yeah, that's I put that in

1:44:10there. I mean, I I do think that we need

1:44:13a revolving loan fund for our downtown.

1:44:16Um maybe there's not a lot of energy

1:44:18around it. I do think we need one.

1:44:20>> I I will say in the the letters from the

1:44:23Mon business association and in those

1:44:25spreadsheets, there's a lot of energy

1:44:26around a revolving loan fund.

1:44:29>> It's not exactly

1:44:30>> We heard that yesterday.

1:44:31>> Yeah. It's not exactly around flood or

1:44:36you know but it's also around flood and

1:44:39their ability to come up but it may also

1:44:40just be around

1:44:41>> they talk about some of the money that

1:44:43we might give them being used that way.

1:44:49I think removing some of the specificity

1:44:52around exactly the function or who would

1:44:55hold such a revolving loan fund would be

1:44:58helpful. But I think that the revolving

1:45:00loan fund there there's enough interest

1:45:02from enough different places that I I

1:45:06feel like that that's a that's a amend.

1:45:10Um

1:45:11that's what it feels like to me.

1:45:12>> I would agree with that.

1:45:15>> Okay. I guess both of those two goals

1:45:18here. One is specific to flood

1:45:20mitigation. Another is around economic

1:45:22development.

1:45:23>> Well, I think they're both

1:45:24>> I would collapse.

1:45:26Yeah,

1:45:27>> I would collapse the two

1:45:28>> and be agnostic. I would say create

1:45:33development

1:45:34>> capital downtown access to capital

1:45:37>> to downtown businesses. Okay, we can

1:45:41explore that. um study the elimination

1:45:43of the business equipment tax.

1:45:47>> I would like to know what that brings in

1:45:49because that has been talked about for

1:45:51like 30 years

1:45:54>> and um I just had a conversation with

1:45:57Marty today. So in total it brings in

1:46:00about half a million dollars

1:46:03>> when we're talking about um

1:46:05>> when we're talking about business

1:46:08personal property you know business pro

1:46:10property tax for smaller businesses the

1:46:14revenue is around um $25,000.

1:46:18>> I had no clue it was that much.

1:46:20>> Look at my finance. That's probably why

1:46:22it's still

1:46:23>> it's the bigger, you know, it's so there

1:46:25could be conversation around setting a

1:46:28higher threshold for when we would

1:46:30create it when we have our lot

1:46:31conversation. Some of the conversation

1:46:33with staff has been, do you use local

1:46:35options tax to offset

1:46:38that for the business community?

1:46:39>> Where does that half a million go into

1:46:42the city coffers?

1:46:44>> Yeah.

1:46:45basically to be used how just as

1:46:50do you know

1:46:50>> it's not dedicated specifically it's

1:46:53just part of the tax

1:46:55>> and I'm

1:46:57>> imagining that big difference is because

1:46:58you've got places like national life and

1:47:01the big insurance companies and banks

1:47:02that have a lot but say Fairond Books or

1:47:04the toy store

1:47:06>> is personal

1:47:08>> yeah Matt did you want to weigh in

1:47:10>> um I don't think I presented to council

1:47:13but early on I developed a proposal to

1:47:15replace the business equipment tax for

1:47:18small businesses with empty storefront

1:47:21tax.

1:47:23So that seemed to be packing that the

1:47:26right people get businesses in but don't

1:47:29tax them once they arrive. Um I can bust

1:47:33that off and talk and see if we can find

1:47:37that that's revenue neutral.

1:47:41And I I put the green one there. And

1:47:43part of it was just because anecdotally

1:47:45I've heard from several businesses and

1:47:47they're all small businesses that it was

1:47:49just the burden of figuring out what

1:47:52they owe that the process was so

1:47:55cumbersome and wound up being almost as

1:47:57expensive as the tax itself in terms of

1:47:59professional services and time.

1:48:02>> So

1:48:05we'll keep that.

1:48:06>> Great. Thanks. Um, okay. Continue to

1:48:10improve our business and economic

1:48:12climate to encourage climate to

1:48:13encourage and support business. We see

1:48:16I'm going to run through the red ones.

1:48:17Make a decision on the renewal of the

1:48:18tax instrument finance program. I think

1:48:21he's pivoted to chip on the list.

1:48:23>> The first three are all complete in the

1:48:25list. Yeah.

1:48:26>> Yeah. Okay. Um, [cough]

1:48:30[clears throat]

1:48:33all right. Advocate for and support

1:48:35welcome centers. I see.

1:48:37in yellow.

1:48:38>> I cheated there.

1:48:42>> I cheated. I put all three of those

1:48:43green dots. [laughter]

1:48:45>> Okay.

1:48:47>> But I want to know is it center or

1:48:50centers?

1:48:51>> Yeah.

1:48:52>> Because is it plural or

1:48:54>> I I think one would be a success.

1:48:56>> I would think one would be fine.

1:48:59>> And we are actively working on that and

1:49:01it would require some of your

1:49:03authorities. So,

1:49:04>> well, we're we [clears throat] got a

1:49:06letter on that from we heard a lot about

1:49:09that from at the business meeting

1:49:11yesterday morning. [snorts]

1:49:13>> All right. Increase economic development

1:49:15through indoor and outdoor wreck. Um,

1:49:17it's specific to well, it says for

1:49:19example, the parks connector trail. I

1:49:21think we've already talked about that in

1:49:24terms of economic strategies being clear

1:49:26about what our economic strategies are.

1:49:28So I might propose we

1:49:31collect those. And the last one,

1:49:34inventory of underutilized upper

1:49:36stories. Assess vacant upper story floor

1:49:38space for potential rent for housing

1:49:40down office space. Um this crosses over

1:49:44what we talked about in housing relative

1:49:48to vacant buildings. Um do we want to

1:49:51rearticulate that here since buildings

1:49:54might have multi-purpose uses?

1:49:57It's it's covered in the policy that the

1:50:01housing committee is looking at.

1:50:05>> So, we can get rid of it here.

1:50:07>> Yes.

1:50:08>> Okay. All right.

1:50:12Okay. We will come up with an updated

1:50:16tighter [clears throat] strategic plan

1:50:18for your review. staff will go ahead and

1:50:20review these KPIs as well to see if any

1:50:22of them really make sense to move into a

1:50:24strategy column for your consideration

1:50:27and um bring that back to help inform

1:50:31future work plan direction and budgeting

1:50:35um conversations as well.

1:50:38>> All right, do we want to take a quick

1:50:39break and have some cake

1:50:44for waiting for this moment?

1:50:49All right.

1:50:52>> Well done.

1:50:53>> Cake treat.

1:50:56>> All right. Well, let's everyone keep

1:50:58enjoying your cake and welcome back.

1:51:00We're going to continue our discussion

1:51:02of the Montillar City Council strategic

1:51:04planning retreat. We've just walked

1:51:06through your current um strategic plan

1:51:09to get some really I think impactful and

1:51:11helpful updates that we'll bring back

1:51:13for you in a revised um draft for your

1:51:17review. And then as I indicated in the

1:51:20memo to you all, uh I am proposing from

1:51:24you know your city manager, your city

1:51:25manager's office that you consider the

1:51:28addition of a fourth um priority area in

1:51:31your strategic plan regarding community

1:51:34safety. And you know what has inspired

1:51:37this is just a recognition that your

1:51:40staff is spending a lot of time in this

1:51:43intersection of um public health and

1:51:47public safety um needs. I know you all

1:51:51have received a lot of input from

1:51:54individual members of the community,

1:51:55from the business community. Um, you

1:51:58know, folks who've lived here for a very

1:52:00long time requesting a heightened

1:52:02attention to um, you know, some of the

1:52:04issues that we're running into with an

1:52:07elevated population of um, homeless.

1:52:10less, you know, focus on the homeless,

1:52:12but more focus on some of the

1:52:14problematic folks that we have who are

1:52:17um the systems are not responsive to

1:52:20either their needs related to poverty or

1:52:24mental health. And um their interactions

1:52:27with the law enforcement system are not

1:52:29resulting in meaningful improvements to

1:52:32accountability or reductions of um

1:52:35incidents of problematic behavior that

1:52:37we're seeing around town. And so, you

1:52:40know, we since this is part of what

1:52:43inspired a weekly or monthly, sorry,

1:52:46every meeting reporting around what the

1:52:49city is doing in our strategies related

1:52:52to this. Um, you know, the interim

1:52:54police chief Jeff Pearson and I spend

1:52:56quite a bit of time looking at how our

1:52:58current capacity for [snorts]

1:53:00law enforcement is able to engage around

1:53:02these limitations that we see in the

1:53:05systems um around that. and

1:53:09um as well. And so I I want to take

1:53:13time. I'm going to pause there. We'll

1:53:14have more conversation around all of

1:53:16this, but I want to invite um Colonel

1:53:18Jim Baker to speak with you all. Um

1:53:22Colonel Baker has been supporting the

1:53:24city in our our recruitment process for

1:53:27our permanent police chief. Um he has

1:53:31decades of experience in law

1:53:34enforcement, including having been an

1:53:36interim commissioner in um corrections

1:53:39for the state of Vermont, having been

1:53:41the director of the International

1:53:42Association of Chiefs of Police, has

1:53:45been um both a permanent and inter and

1:53:47interim police chief in a number of

1:53:49towns in Vermont as well, and has run

1:53:53community stakeholder processes around

1:53:56just the types of

1:53:58um you know challenging circumstances

1:54:01that we are finding ourselves in now and

1:54:04again which has precipitated this

1:54:05proposal for your consideration. And so

1:54:08I invited Colonel Baker here today to

1:54:10talk about his experience working with

1:54:12other communities in Vermont to try and

1:54:14really wrestle with this and create

1:54:16productive strategies that improve, you

1:54:19know, both the upstream conditions that

1:54:21cause um some of what we're experiencing

1:54:23as well as our reactions and um

1:54:27strategies around responding to impacts.

1:54:29So sorry we're later than I thought.

1:54:31Colonel, thank you for hanging in there

1:54:33with us.

1:54:35>> Not a problem. If I knew you were having

1:54:36chocolate cake, I would have drove up

1:54:38from Bennington. [laughter]

1:54:40>> Yeah, I'll bring you one. I'll get one

1:54:42just next time.

1:54:45>> Next time, maybe next time. So,

1:54:48>> again, thank you for uh the opportunity

1:54:50to share some thoughts with you. Um I

1:54:53know I know a couple of you on the

1:54:55council from u my many decades here in

1:54:58Vermont. Um so, I won't I won't get into

1:55:01my background. And I think you many of

1:55:03you saw the proposal that you accepted

1:55:06um for my firm to help with the search

1:55:08for a new chief. And that's where this

1:55:10conversation came about with Kelly as we

1:55:13were talking. We talk every week um

1:55:16update um where we are in the process um

1:55:19and we started talking about some of the

1:55:22challenges facing an incoming police

1:55:24chief. And um I talked to Kelly a little

1:55:28bit about my my latest experience as a

1:55:32consultant was I supported the state's

1:55:34public safety enhancement team where we

1:55:37did some work in communities. Um, and

1:55:40I'm going to use the framework of

1:55:41Brattleboro to kind of um lay out to you

1:55:45what what I think is a um is a process

1:55:49in order to bring the disparit and um

1:55:53divergent thought processes around how

1:55:56to deal with the challenges you are

1:55:58facing and many communities are facing

1:56:00around the unhoused um substance use

1:56:03disorder um mental health challenges um

1:56:07that present itself every day in

1:56:08communities.

1:56:09And I must say, you're not the only

1:56:11community, as you know, facing this in

1:56:13Vermont.

1:56:14And um you know, it's it's it's been a

1:56:17bit of a a challenge for every community

1:56:20to come up with a strategy on how to

1:56:22deal with it. The other thing a level

1:56:24setter here is also um it's my thought

1:56:27and my my position um based on my

1:56:30experience you know both in the front

1:56:33front end of the criminal justice system

1:56:35as a law enforcement um executive in the

1:56:39state but also as the time as

1:56:41commissioner of corrections. I saw the

1:56:43back end of the system. Um I for years

1:56:46frontloaded the front end of the system.

1:56:48I got to see the back end of the system

1:56:51and the challenges around um how do you

1:56:55take the services that are in

1:56:58communities and be able to rally them

1:57:00around a common purpose with a shared

1:57:02consciousness about how to approach the

1:57:05challenges of um homelessness, mental

1:57:09health, substance disorder. Um th those

1:57:13challenges are real and if there isn't a

1:57:15shared consciousness around how how to

1:57:18confront those holding each other

1:57:20accountable for what services are

1:57:23responsible for what it becomes even

1:57:25more difficult to be able to manage it.

1:57:27So what I thought I would do is talk a

1:57:29little bit about the process we used in

1:57:31Brattleboro. the work that I did for the

1:57:34public safety enhancement team. Um, I

1:57:36focused on Brattleboro, Springfield, and

1:57:38Bennington and also refreshing Rutland.

1:57:42Part of the reason why I think I was

1:57:44asked by the state to come back as a

1:57:46consultant on that is the work I did as

1:57:48the police chief in Rutland, Vermont,

1:57:50where we created project vision um,

1:57:53which was a collaborative effort amongst

1:57:56all the stakeholders who had an interest

1:57:58in the wellness of the city. um and

1:58:01created an opportunity to be able to

1:58:03brainstorm and create processes, systems

1:58:06etc. to address issues. Now that was

1:58:09back in the 2014 2013 the situation in

1:58:13the state on the ground is much

1:58:16different now postcoid

1:58:18um so the work that I started doing to

1:58:20support the public safety enhancement

1:58:23team was postco

1:58:26in Brattleboro their situation was um

1:58:30similar to many communities um in the

1:58:32end they ended up creating a

1:58:34collaborative effort that's that's

1:58:36driven and guided by a starter called

1:58:39One Brattleboro. And I'll get to that.

1:58:41I'm kind of giving you that upfront

1:58:43where they ended up going, but it took a

1:58:45lot of work to get there. Um about a

1:58:4810-month process. Uh Brattleboro is a is

1:58:52a very active community, but it was also

1:58:54a very traumatized

1:58:58community. They have had some major

1:59:00events in that community uh including uh

1:59:05uh a fire where there was a very

1:59:07prominent member of the community lost

1:59:10her life in a in a fire. Someone who was

1:59:12very active in the social services

1:59:14system in the community lost a child to

1:59:17suicide. Um I can go on the list. It

1:59:20goes all the way back to uh an officer

1:59:22involved shooting which some of you may

1:59:24remember the Woody shooting at a church

1:59:27where officers um shot and killed an

1:59:30individual who had a knife and those

1:59:33residual effects in the community. I

1:59:35tell you those things because the

1:59:36residual effect in the community was

1:59:39causing people not to be able to get

1:59:40around a table and come to some common

1:59:43purpose and shared consciousness around

1:59:45how to attack the issues that they were

1:59:48facing. predominantly in the downtown

1:59:51uh where panhandling, open panhandling,

1:59:54uh folks were harassing folks coming

1:59:57into the downtown. If anybody knows

2:00:00anything about Brownboro, the downtown

2:00:02is the economic driver of the community.

2:00:05Um that's that's where um they sell

2:00:08themselves with um people that come to

2:00:11the community to recreate, shop, uh eat

2:00:15dinner at restaurants and so on.

2:00:18the that that in order to be able to

2:00:21build out that process, we we spent

2:00:24about eight months visiting one-on-one

2:00:29um with a lot of folks in the community

2:00:30who I would refer to as focal leaders

2:00:34because again there was a very large

2:00:36divide uh amongst folks about what

2:00:40direction to go in to have a shared

2:00:42consciousness around safety in the

2:00:44community. It's one thing to say safety

2:00:46in the community, but defining what that

2:00:48means has to be the first step. And

2:00:52that's something that I saw in the

2:00:53communities I worked in. Um, and and I I

2:00:57have to say this because councelor

2:00:59Costello, I see you there. I um I I it

2:01:03takes me back to I think it was 2004

2:01:07in Pano, Vermont, where the Council on

2:01:09Rural Development did something very

2:01:11similar to what I'm talking about. um

2:01:14when I was back with the state police

2:01:16trying to get folks um around the table

2:01:20who have a stake in um raising the level

2:01:23of safety in the community and also

2:01:25lowering lowering crime but also

2:01:28lowering some of the social chaos that

2:01:30goes on around some of these issues. And

2:01:34so um eventually

2:01:36um Brattlebrook agreed um after many

2:01:40months of working with folks that all

2:01:42the stakeholders would come to a

2:01:44symposium that was held in April of 24.

2:01:49And the focus of that was um

2:01:53coming to a conclusion about how to move

2:01:56forward in a collective uh agreement

2:02:00with a common purpose and a shared

2:02:02consciousness

2:02:04um about how they were going to move

2:02:06forward with the resources that were in

2:02:08the community to address the issues that

2:02:11were in front of them. And the first

2:02:13thing that needed to be done was catalog

2:02:15the resources that were in the

2:02:16community. who's doing what. And I have

2:02:19to tell you, um, in all the communities

2:02:21I worked in with this, everyone was

2:02:24working real hard on the issues. Um,

2:02:27they they they were doing their level

2:02:28best to use the resources they had to

2:02:31address the issues. The problem was the

2:02:34gaps and the lack of communication and

2:02:36more importantly the lack of trust

2:02:38amongst the providers in the community.

2:02:41And so that symposium, they they decided

2:02:44to move forward with that. We helped

2:02:46facilitate that. And coming out of that,

2:02:48they were hoping the goals would be

2:02:50cataloging resources, building trust,

2:02:54developing that common purpose that I

2:02:55talked about, developing a shared

2:02:58consciousness around what the issue was

2:03:00and what safety looks like in their

2:03:03community, and a method to engage the

2:03:05whole community in the conversations

2:03:08and start using better data from all the

2:03:11participating agencies, services, etc.

2:03:16around how to identify the overusers of

2:03:19the systems to include emergency rooms,

2:03:22EMS, police department

2:03:25and establish a leadership group coming

2:03:28out of that symposium based on the

2:03:30models in Springfield which was project

2:03:33action Rutland project vision and in

2:03:36Bennington project alliance and that's

2:03:39how one brattlebro was formed. Um after

2:03:42that um less symposium I'll quickly tell

2:03:45you what that looked like. It was

2:03:47panels. Um one panel was on trauma

2:03:50impact in Brattleboro. Another one on

2:03:52collaboration coordination communication

2:03:54that was currently working in

2:03:56Brattleboro

2:03:57data informed interventions and how to

2:04:00enhance those data informed

2:04:02interventions.

2:04:03Uh a panel on addressing the challenges

2:04:05towards the end of the day and what a

2:04:08resilient healthy community looks like.

2:04:11And that was set up by the night before

2:04:13the symposium, there was a communitywide

2:04:16showing of a film with guest speakers

2:04:18about how to deal with addiction in

2:04:20communities and how to build resiliency

2:04:22in communities. Um so that that

2:04:26symposium led to uh an agreement with

2:04:30leaders from 30 different organizations

2:04:34approximately

2:04:35to sit down and create a charter where

2:04:39they would agree to work together and

2:04:42start closing the gaps around

2:04:43communication, sharing of information,

2:04:46sharing of data and things such as uh a

2:04:50data project was set up inside the

2:04:52police department. Um, getting support

2:04:55from the crime research group, starting

2:04:57to identify the old overusers of the

2:05:00system within EMS and fire and

2:05:03immediately starting to focus on

2:05:05interventions of those individuals with

2:05:07the goal of cutting down on that

2:05:10overutilization of those resources.

2:05:14So that that that's what gave birth to

2:05:17to to one Brattleboro. It's still

2:05:20active. In fact, in talking to John

2:05:22Potter, the town town town manager um

2:05:25the other day, he mentioned that it's

2:05:27been so successful and the charter

2:05:30charter they created um is holding

2:05:33people accountable to each other because

2:05:35that's the other big piece of that

2:05:38process is making sure that people

2:05:41aren't pointing fingers at other

2:05:43agencies about well that's not my job,

2:05:45it's your job. in one bridle bro it's

2:05:47everybody's job to address the issues in

2:05:50the community and they're holding each

2:05:53other accountable um and there's more

2:05:56accountability amongst those agencies

2:05:57now than there was was before and they

2:06:00work through issues one Brattleboro is

2:06:02made up of um decision makers heads of

2:06:07agencies people who control financial

2:06:09resources and make decisions about

2:06:12policy below that several things have

2:06:15been set up in the meantime as a result

2:06:17of that. And I I'm going to stop there,

2:06:20Kelly. Um, and let folks, if there's any

2:06:23questions and kind of do a check of how

2:06:26much time that you want me to spend

2:06:28because I can talk about some of those

2:06:30outcomes as a result of one brought um

2:06:34getting up on his feet and operational

2:06:36and functioning.

2:06:41>> Please take the opportunity to ask

2:06:43Colonel Baker questions about any

2:06:47Yeah. How much uh thank you for um being

2:06:50tonight with us. First of all, how much

2:06:52support uh did you receive from state in

2:06:57these towns? Like is is there any like

2:07:01funds available

2:07:03uh by by this by state or like is it

2:07:06only like local uh funding resources uh

2:07:10were used in these like four towns you

2:07:12listed? Thank you. Yeah, there there

2:07:15were some resources that were provided.

2:07:17Well, first of all, I was a consultant

2:07:19that was being paid by the state um to

2:07:23look at

2:07:24>> um and so there were other um

2:07:27interventions with resources, but I I

2:07:29must tell you that um you can you can

2:07:32always use more resources, financial

2:07:35resources, but I I would say until you

2:07:38understand exactly what you have for the

2:07:41existing resources in the community, um

2:07:44being asking for more resources without

2:07:47understanding those gaps is going to

2:07:49waste a lot of resources. Um you can

2:07:52start addressing some of the challenges

2:07:54with that um shared consciousness around

2:07:57people coming together with a with a

2:08:00shared purpose um and and using data to

2:08:03measure outcomes.

2:08:06Hopefully I answered your question.

2:08:07>> [clears throat]

2:08:08>> Yeah, I wasn't only talking about the

2:08:10money like when I say like funds and

2:08:14resources like support from the state,

2:08:16collaboration from the state because

2:08:18like this towns might be different but

2:08:20Montpillar is the capital of the state

2:08:23and we we work like some of the state

2:08:27workers we leave uh together. So that's

2:08:30what I was talking about. I understand

2:08:32your point but my question wasn't only

2:08:34like oh how much money did you receive

2:08:36from the state like all the

2:08:38collaborations support funds and other

2:08:40resources. Yeah thank you.

2:08:42>> So within within one bridal bro there

2:08:45are state decision makers that

2:08:47participate. So for exist for existent

2:08:50for example the uh district manager for

2:08:54AHS participates in that process and

2:08:58other resources corrections state police

2:09:02they participate in that uh that one br

2:09:08>> speaking of data and results you know

2:09:12you mentioned social chaos and so I'm

2:09:15sort of curious like what was the what

2:09:18has the the reduction of harm or the

2:09:20reduction of public behaviors been like?

2:09:23What are the the data points there?

2:09:26>> Yeah. So, one of the data points um they

2:09:29did a deep dive into I mentioned this

2:09:31quickly. The overutilizers, they run EMS

2:09:35much like you run EMS out of the fire

2:09:37department. So they they get, you know,

2:09:40the overdose calls, um the medical

2:09:43calls, um the police departments get

2:09:45called for disturbances and disorderly

2:09:48individuals. So some of the data points

2:09:50are who are those overutilizers and how

2:09:53do you wrap services around them? They

2:09:55have an active situation table there. Um

2:09:58I know from talking to Kelly, you

2:10:00participate in the situation table in uh

2:10:02Washington County. They they have an

2:10:05active situation table. So a lot of that

2:10:08kind of um challenges around folks that

2:10:11are overutilizers are being brought to

2:10:14the situation table where there's

2:10:16another level of accountability with the

2:10:18providers of the service on the ground.

2:10:21Um [snorts] that's one set of data

2:10:22points. The other thing I think you

2:10:24would you would hear and again I don't

2:10:27want to speak for the town because I'm

2:10:28using them as a framework of the kind of

2:10:30work that we did. Um, I I think you

2:10:34would hear from the town that that the

2:10:36atmosphere downtown is different than it

2:10:38was before because they the town did put

2:10:42a lot of resources on the table to

2:10:44include creating what they refer to as

2:10:46the Brad team, which is the Brattleboro

2:10:48resource assistant team, where they're

2:10:50out there doing interventions with folks

2:10:52every day. um um to the point where they

2:10:56have an outreach worker uh specialist

2:10:59who's in long-term recovery who actually

2:11:03um does interventions and transports

2:11:05people to to centers um for treatment.

2:11:08So I think you would hear from them that

2:11:12that type of feedback they were getting

2:11:14from the community and some of this is

2:11:16from surveying is that that um sense of

2:11:20not being safe downtown is different

2:11:22than it was before.

2:11:25>> Yeah. The the public perception of

2:11:27safety.

2:11:28>> Correct. Correct. That's why it's so

2:11:30important uh mayor to to really

2:11:32understand and have an understanding

2:11:34when you talk safety. What are you

2:11:36really talking about in your community?

2:11:38because some of this is, you know,

2:11:41people encounter someone that's unhoused

2:11:43and sometimes the reaction can be um

2:11:47visceral and and you know, scary and you

2:11:51know, that's all individual, but it does

2:11:53contribute collectively to the feeling

2:11:56and the culture and some of the social

2:11:59norms that are on the street.

2:12:04>> It's so great to see you. And uh for

2:12:06folks who don't know, Jim's something of

2:12:09a legend and and that legend started way

2:12:11back, but Project Vision in Rutland

2:12:14became the model for this type of work

2:12:16statewide. We we helped you get around

2:12:19to other communities. We had a lot of

2:12:20communities that were desperately

2:12:22looking for this kind of answer. And one

2:12:25of the things that strikes me is we have

2:12:27a technocratic social service structure

2:12:31that doesn't necessarily intersect with

2:12:33police fire effectively. That that

2:12:36there's different organizations, there

2:12:38are different data sets, different sets

2:12:40of communications, different they see a

2:12:42person from their angle in terms of who

2:12:44they are rather than the whole of that

2:12:46person. and you produced something in

2:12:50Rutland that you've taken on the road

2:12:52where you're bringing those people

2:12:55together to have real discussion about

2:12:58what the human need is. It's not just

2:13:00about accountability. It's also about

2:13:02>> That's right.

2:13:03>> It's about compassion and support for

2:13:05people who are struggling. And I I think

2:13:07that's incredibly powerful as a model.

2:13:09And um I'd be glad about any particular

2:13:14advice you have for Mont Pillar's

2:13:16situation given what you know um based

2:13:18on the the chief search.

2:13:21>> Yeah, you're uh you're very you're very

2:13:23kind. I um I often say that I often say

2:13:28that my time in Rutland um once we

2:13:30opened up the methodone clinic, crime

2:13:32dropped through the floor. It doesn't

2:13:34take a rocket scientist to figure out

2:13:36that um it is very expensive to maintain

2:13:38an opiate habit. And so um and and to

2:13:42maintain an opiate habit um takes a

2:13:45certain amount of resources that you

2:13:48can't generate because of the the cycle

2:13:50of addiction that individuals are in.

2:13:52And you're 100% right. So this whole

2:13:55focus what what I what I described to

2:13:57you in Bradboro and the other

2:13:58communities and there is still some work

2:14:00going on with the state and I know some

2:14:03of those resources are starting to run

2:14:05out financially but the whole focus was

2:14:09trying to figure out that intersection

2:14:10of public safety and public health and

2:14:13how to collaborate around uh uh

2:14:16interventions

2:14:18to to to uh to affect um the negative um

2:14:24context calls for service. Um the the uh

2:14:29empathy fatigue that was setting in uh

2:14:31with first responders. Um the whole idea

2:14:34was to try to figure out how to get

2:14:36public health and public safety in the

2:14:38room. And when I talk public health, I

2:14:40know I'm not using the right term when

2:14:42it comes to uh mental health um

2:14:44challenges for individuals. But when I

2:14:47say public health, I mean public health

2:14:50in general, addiction, mental health, uh

2:14:54physical problems as a result of being

2:14:56unhoused and so on. And um the whole

2:15:00point of that symposium at Bradlebrun,

2:15:02I'll use that as a reference was to get

2:15:06public health, public safety in a room

2:15:08and start collaborating

2:15:10on um what what a common purpose is to

2:15:14address those issues. And sometimes, and

2:15:19I'm not I don't want to be derogatory

2:15:20here, sometimes it's harder for public

2:15:23health people to see their way around

2:15:25that because of privacy issues, HIPPA,

2:15:29and so on. And those are real

2:15:31challenges, but real challenges

2:15:33shouldn't stop just because you have

2:15:35those progress shouldn't stop just

2:15:37because you have those challenges.

2:15:42>> Yeah, I this is this is really great.

2:15:44Okay. I so appreciate your time and your

2:15:46expertise on this. I'm looking at the

2:15:48the one Brattleboroough charter which is

2:15:51great. Um,

2:15:53>> but I'm also noticing like what's the

2:15:55role maybe this is just specific to

2:15:57Brattleboroough but it's I think a

2:15:59notable difference in the Montpielar

2:16:01community is I'm not seeing a lot of

2:16:03participation by the faith community in

2:16:04this charter and I'm just wondering

2:16:07>> there was and there is.

2:16:08>> Yeah. So what's that look like?

2:16:11So it it it looks like anybody else that

2:16:14has a role in playing a role to play in

2:16:19coming to that shared consciousness and

2:16:22common purpose and there was there there

2:16:24was faith community involved there but I

2:16:28do I I should have I should have pointed

2:16:30that out. I recognize the fact that you

2:16:33probably have um maybe a little bit more

2:16:37diversity

2:16:38um around the faith community, but the

2:16:40faith community is a very important

2:16:42piece of this. They need to be at the

2:16:44table because they're they're they're

2:16:46offering services and help um all the

2:16:50time and sometimes that's where some

2:16:53conflict comes up. And I look, I know

2:16:54already from the police chief search

2:16:56that there's been some conflict in Mount

2:16:58Puya around some of those some of those

2:17:00issues. Um people wanting to help

2:17:03people. Um one of the greatest sayings I

2:17:06heard somebody in long-term recovery

2:17:07said is that empathy without

2:17:09accountability is only enabling. And so

2:17:13part of that shared conscious is

2:17:14understand how are you how are you going

2:17:16to help people with empathy? But you got

2:17:18to hold accountability for social norms

2:17:20in the community when when those are

2:17:23affected because if not, all you're

2:17:26doing is enabling people's behavior.

2:17:31>> All right, other questions.

2:17:34Okay, thank you so much, Colonel Baker.

2:17:37I appreciate you staying on late with us

2:17:39and I really appreciate your insights

2:17:40because I think they would they

2:17:42illustrate um what we're trying to

2:17:44wrestle with here and really I think

2:17:47demonstrate part of why I've brought

2:17:49forward this pillar for your

2:17:51consideration because it's exactly these

2:17:54challenges that staff is really spending

2:17:56a lot of time on across multiple um

2:17:58departments in Montpier right now and

2:18:01while you know we have our situation

2:18:02table which is an excellent and very um

2:18:05productive of convening around specific

2:18:08cases. You know, we aren't having bigger

2:18:11conversations with those same partners

2:18:13around systems and policies and

2:18:16solutions there.

2:18:19>> And I and the last thing I'll say,

2:18:21Kelly, is that situation table isn't the

2:18:24end of the road. It's just one element

2:18:26that communities are using who are

2:18:30successful in starting to build that

2:18:32collaboration between public health and

2:18:34public safety. So, and uh I you you know

2:18:37how to get a hold of me, Kelly. We'll be

2:18:39talking we'll be talking again tomorrow

2:18:41morning.

2:18:42>> I will uh I will make myself available

2:18:45if there's questions that come out of

2:18:47this

2:18:47>> and uh

2:18:49>> Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you.

2:18:51>> Thank you.

2:18:52>> Thanks.

2:18:53>> All right. So, I you know, a lot of

2:18:56times we have these conversations and it

2:18:57feels like what can we do? We can't do a

2:18:59lot. But I hope you know what Colonel

2:19:01Baker demonstrated is that some

2:19:03communities are wrestling with this in

2:19:04really productive um ways and that might

2:19:07be a model for us to consider and it's

2:19:10part of what I've proposed here in in

2:19:12this pillar. Um I'll go to Paul then.

2:19:17So my gut says this is a priority of the

2:19:20people of Mia right [clears throat] now

2:19:22and it it's not um just about

2:19:27accountability as as as my question was

2:19:30and I think maybe that the title should

2:19:33be a little different. I think we need

2:19:35to make this a priority but I think

2:19:36[clears throat] it's maybe community

2:19:38safety and well-being. It's about it's

2:19:41about caring for people who are

2:19:43challenged as well and wrapping services

2:19:46together with the partners and with the

2:19:48leadership of the city services to to do

2:19:51the best we can for every every case in

2:19:54the city of of people who have who have

2:19:56needs. And so I'd like to like just

2:19:59nuance it that way from the beginning

2:20:02though accountability is essential to

2:20:04it. And I appreciate the elements in

2:20:06this. I guess you're going to walk us

2:20:07through, right?

2:20:08>> Yes. That's just

2:20:09>> Yeah. And um I'll just start. So when I

2:20:13composed this, I thought it would be

2:20:15better to have something for you all to

2:20:16respond to in our conversation than try

2:20:19and kind of invented on the spot. And so

2:20:21I built it similarly to how all the

2:20:23other um goal priority areas were built

2:20:27out relative to looking at like what do

2:20:29we already see in our city plan? And so

2:20:32pulling from our city plan um those

2:20:34components and including the ones in

2:20:36here that um you know r have risen to

2:20:40the top as more of a focus um for staff

2:20:44and um and then from that looking at you

2:20:47know the prior strategic plan that

2:20:49council had in place which did have a

2:20:53public safety component in it and focus

2:20:55area in it and what did that say because

2:20:57that's not very old. That was only two

2:20:59years ago. And so what were the

2:21:01components of that that could still be

2:21:03very relevant for what staff is working

2:21:05on, the community needs are currently.

2:21:08And so those were my um initial starting

2:21:11points. And then in talking with Jim and

2:21:13looking at what the successes that have

2:21:14been in some of these other communities

2:21:16that he has worked in, pulling some, you

2:21:19know, discrete elements of that um is is

2:21:23how I built this. And so that's kind of

2:21:25like the source information around this.

2:21:28um you know, not all of it talks about

2:21:30sort of the issues around the convening

2:21:32that he's discussing. You know, some of

2:21:34it really just talks about um how are we

2:21:37exercising our emergency plan, which is

2:21:39also a priority for our public safety

2:21:41teams. How are we looking at staffing

2:21:43and secession planning, which is going

2:21:45to be important so that we don't run

2:21:47into the same issues with reductions in

2:21:49force, you know, five years from now

2:21:51that we're in now. and that has helped

2:21:53contribute to some of the sense of the

2:21:55community that's demanding this as a

2:21:56high priority um conversation. And um so

2:22:01I will I'll start there for kind of

2:22:04conversation. Um you know, we could go

2:22:07through this again as a dot exercise,

2:22:08but we're running out of time and so we

2:22:10may need to just get a pulse check with

2:22:13you all because I do want to get to the

2:22:15local options tax conversation as well.

2:22:17Um just sort of get a pulse check from

2:22:20you all on um the interest in bringing

2:22:23this forward in you know a future um

2:22:26strate as a future strategic plan pillar

2:22:29that you would adopt with the updates we

2:22:31discussed earlier and if there are

2:22:33certain things that really jump out to

2:22:34you as you know welcome or problematic

2:22:37or you know in or out or missing um

2:22:41would be I think helpful places to

2:22:42start. we can create more time to really

2:22:45dive into the notions of this in, you

2:22:47know, different conversation if we want

2:22:50to just focus on it specifically. So,

2:22:52I'll stop there and I'll see, you know,

2:22:55what people's initial reactions are to

2:22:57this.

2:22:59>> I want to echo what Paul said. Um, I

2:23:02would be a lot more comfortable with

2:23:03this if it was either community health

2:23:06and safety or community safety and

2:23:08well-being. Um, and I think because the

2:23:12it's the focus needs to be on taking

2:23:15care of people and making sure people's

2:23:17needs are met. And I think a lot of the

2:23:20things in the draft that you've come up

2:23:21with are very very focused on like

2:23:24policing and and accountability and law

2:23:26enforcement and all that, which I think

2:23:27is has an appropriate place. But

2:23:30listening to Jim talk about the the

2:23:33process of bringing people together, all

2:23:35the people concerned together to talk

2:23:37about how are we going to make sure that

2:23:38this is a good place to live for

2:23:41everybody

2:23:42is very appealing to me. And um I think

2:23:46I do think that's really missing here.

2:23:48And the situation table is really

2:23:50helpful, but only for specific cases.

2:23:52And I have noticed at times in the past

2:23:53where it was clear that the police

2:23:56didn't know what the churches knew and

2:23:59there were, you know, the people were if

2:24:02they had been able to talk to each

2:24:03other, a a crisis situation might have

2:24:06been dealt with much more easily because

2:24:08that person could say, "Well, I know

2:24:09that person and they're dealing with X,

2:24:10Y, and Z, whatever." So, so I'd really

2:24:13like to see that. Um, and

2:24:15>> is that what the CR A is?

2:24:18>> That I don't think so.

2:24:20>> Yeah.

2:24:22outreach, right?

2:24:23>> And that's part of the police

2:24:25department, right?

2:24:26>> So, um, the way that this has been built

2:24:28in other communities, and I would

2:24:29invite, um, Chief Pearson to come up as

2:24:32well, is that these are, you know,

2:24:34unarmed, um,

2:24:38you know, unarmed individuals that go

2:24:39out to connect people with services and

2:24:41provide greater presence out in the out

2:24:44in the public around how to connect

2:24:46people with services as well. So there

2:24:49sometimes they're given um

2:24:52authorizations where they can enforce

2:24:54around low-level types of ordinances um

2:24:58but also you know talking with people in

2:25:00the community to connect them with the

2:25:02providers that are out there. And so

2:25:05that's what, you know, um, Jim was

2:25:07talking about relative to the folks with

2:25:09lived experience who are, you know,

2:25:13trying to get people where they're at in

2:25:15the moment and deescalate them from what

2:25:17could develop into situations that then

2:25:21an officer might have to respond to.

2:25:23>> I think that's incredibly important work

2:25:25to do. I'm not sure I would I would like

2:25:28to hear from people with lived

2:25:29experience. I'm not sure that someone

2:25:32who

2:25:33can

2:25:34issue you a citation um is the best

2:25:38person to turn to to get help and

2:25:41resources. And so if so that's why we

2:25:44don't have you know the we have outreach

2:25:46which is separate from the police and so

2:25:50I'm cautious about including it as part

2:25:53of the police department to do this. I

2:25:55think that there are other ways to do

2:25:57that and I think this is a huge

2:25:59conversation.

2:26:00>> Yeah.

2:26:02that I can't give a yes or no to

2:26:04tonight. Maybe that's you don't need it

2:26:06tonight. But

2:26:08>> so is the situation room that we have

2:26:13similar to project vision where all the

2:26:15different providers are sitting at at

2:26:17tables on a monthly basis talking about

2:26:20what's working well, how they're

2:26:22intersecting, what their data is, you

2:26:24know, sharing.

2:26:26Is that happening today? So I'll invite

2:26:28Matt to come up or to the chief to come

2:26:30up to participate in these.

2:26:32>> So the situation table actually meets

2:26:35weekly.

2:26:36>> Um and it is multiple providers uh in

2:26:40Washington County. Um

2:26:43it's not just mental health and law

2:26:44enforcement. There are other turning

2:26:46point and some of the other services

2:26:48that are offered. Uh every Wednesday

2:26:50they meet. Um and what happens is law

2:26:53enforcement or mental health will bring

2:26:56a situation

2:26:58which is going to include an individual,

2:27:00a family, whatever that might be. And

2:27:03the table immediately begins planning

2:27:06what services they will provide. Um,

2:27:10these these weekly meetings, you come

2:27:12back with updates and they literally

2:27:13list them as situation one through

2:27:15whatever. We're not using names and and

2:27:18whatnot. It's just this is a person in

2:27:20need and this this is what we're

2:27:21offering. So,

2:27:24as as Colonel Baker said, it is a vital

2:27:27piece, but it's not the be all end all.

2:27:30Um, it's been very successful. We've had

2:27:32success with it with some of our

2:27:34unhoused folks here. Um something just

2:27:38to to make you aware of is there are

2:27:40some people that will refuse services

2:27:43and those are the very difficult cases

2:27:45and um sometimes it can take a month or

2:27:49it can take that individual uh

2:27:52experiencing something that they haven't

2:27:54experienced yet where they finally say

2:27:56yes I'm ready. But as we all know it's

2:28:00just like someone with addiction they

2:28:01they have to make the decision that they

2:28:04need help. So, you know, it's but it's

2:28:06been very successful. Um,

2:28:10Jake Larby from the fire department is a

2:28:12integral part of it. Um, our police

2:28:15department has has been participating as

2:28:16well as as well as Berry City Police.

2:28:19Um, Northfield, Berlin, everybody when

2:28:23when any community within Washington

2:28:25County has a situation, it can be

2:28:28brought. Um, so that's so as your to

2:28:33your question, is it monthly? you know,

2:28:34it's every week. We're literally going

2:28:36back over this on a weekly basis. Uh

2:28:39especially as we get into the colder

2:28:40months and trying to figure out some

2:28:43some other potential problems that we

2:28:45know we're going to encounter. Does that

2:28:48answer your question?

2:28:51>> It does mean though like it it

2:28:53definitely I think explains what the

2:28:55situation table is, but the other

2:28:57question is is it is the kind of more

2:28:58systemic thing happening anywhere?

2:29:03I don't think it is. I mean, we've had

2:29:05this conversation before and the need

2:29:07for it. And I think that we haven't had

2:29:09a really good model though. Like, we've

2:29:10had a couple of big community meetings

2:29:12where we're all going to talk for

2:29:14something, but but it's not a a model

2:29:17for a structure for ongoing work and

2:29:19ongoing.

2:29:20>> Yeah.

2:29:22>> Yeah. I'd like to speak on this. I went

2:29:24to that big meeting. So did Palin and um

2:29:27there was a lot of talk about how to get

2:29:30things together. The problem was no one

2:29:33was identified as a lead person and no

2:29:37one was identified as who was going to

2:29:39do what or stuff like that and so it

2:29:42just all evaporated.

2:29:45>> [clears throat]

2:29:45>> Um, one of the sitting on the housing

2:29:48test, I mean the homeless committee for

2:29:50a while now, one of the choke points I

2:29:53see in Montpillar and I wanted to ask is

2:29:56there any um religious pe um people at

2:30:01the situation table?

2:30:05>> I don't believe so. That is a choke

2:30:07point in Montpillar because you know

2:30:11that for a while you weren't even

2:30:13allowed to go in a church if something

2:30:15was happening there

2:30:17and there could be you know a crime

2:30:20being committed but they weren't allowed

2:30:22to go in the church. We had somebody

2:30:25come into one of our meetings and accuse

2:30:28the churches of enabling and not getting

2:30:33accountability. They're just plain

2:30:35enabling. And he wanted the council, he

2:30:39wanted us to go to the council and say,

2:30:42"You've got to tell them they can't feed

2:30:45them anymore." And just to show you the

2:30:47reaction, we have a reverend on the on

2:30:51the committee. And he said, "We will sue

2:30:54the city if they try this and we will

2:30:57win." So to me in Montpillar, I don't

2:31:00know if they had this problem in

2:31:02Bradboro, but we have a choke point

2:31:04between the churches and the police and

2:31:07and some residents of the city who feel

2:31:11like, you know, you put out if you want

2:31:14to attract birds, you put out bird

2:31:16feeders.

2:31:17>> Well, I would say, you know, and I'd

2:31:19invite Matt to come up. We just had this

2:31:20interesting conversation, and Chief, you

2:31:21look like you want to answer that

2:31:22question.

2:31:23>> Yeah. During the initial training, the

2:31:26faith-based groups were at the training.

2:31:29What their um participation looks like

2:31:31on a weekly basis, I can't speak to that

2:31:33now, but Lieutenant Lar is the co-chair

2:31:36of the situation table. I can certainly

2:31:39get some feeling for what that

2:31:41participation looks like. And I know

2:31:43Matt attends frequently, if not weekly.

2:31:46>> Yeah, weekly. There isn't anybody from

2:31:48the faith community at the meetings, but

2:31:50everyone who deals with the homeless

2:31:54individuals that they know of knows

2:31:56where to find them in if they are at one

2:31:58of the churches, for example. So, they

2:32:01may there may not may not be anybody

2:32:02from the churches, but everybody who's

2:32:04doing the work on the streets knows

2:32:05where the churches are and who to talk

2:32:07to.

2:32:07>> And I would say to answer your question,

2:32:09Greg, you know, part of what is I think

2:32:12missing here, like there's a lot of

2:32:13conversations happening around specific

2:32:15topical areas. So like you know Matt

2:32:18goes to meetings every month where he's

2:32:19like sitting with the same group of

2:32:21people talking about housing and then at

2:32:23a different meeting sitting with almost

2:32:24the same group of people talking about

2:32:26um you know alcohol use disorder because

2:32:28that's particularly heightened in Mont

2:32:31Pulier you know and then the same group

2:32:33of people talking about sort of winter

2:32:35you know planning for harm reduction

2:32:37around the winter cold weather and so

2:32:40like some of it is happening like the

2:32:42pieces are there but it's not I think

2:32:45it's not structured in a way that like

2:32:47Colonel Baker talked about where we have

2:32:49clarity around the roles, clarity around

2:32:52like what the gaps are and getting

2:32:54focused around filling those or

2:32:56identifying who's accountable to those

2:32:58gaps in terms of the service providers

2:33:00is um you know is part of what I think

2:33:03the opportunity here for us is right

2:33:05now.

2:33:08>> Yeah.

2:33:10>> Yeah. So I think this is a good start to

2:33:14discuss this and I like the idea and I

2:33:16support it and I work with vulnerable

2:33:20population. I support uh helping them

2:33:25because nobody knows what will happen to

2:33:27each of us next day right so we might

2:33:30need that compassion but I think safety

2:33:33is very important.

2:33:36I was going to have a a dinner at

2:33:40Tulio's 3 or 4 weeks ago, Friday night,

2:33:456:30. I couldn't leave my car because

2:33:49two group of unhouse people were

2:33:51fighting and screaming at each other,

2:33:54swearing, and like it was a real loud

2:33:57fight. And it doesn't matter who does

2:34:00this. To me, the most important thing,

2:34:02some people didn't obey rules. And as a

2:34:05petite woman, I didn't feel safe. I

2:34:09didn't leave my car. I don't know what

2:34:11to do. I texted a couple of my friends.

2:34:14I don't want to go home because I work

2:34:15so hard all week and I just want to have

2:34:17nice dinner by myself and rest. And I

2:34:20drove to Waterberry. I spent money

2:34:22there. I sat by myself, right? I I

2:34:27didn't feel how I feel uh felt here. I'm

2:34:31not saying that Montpiel is not safe. I

2:34:34am saying that some of the population

2:34:36women like me

2:34:39they don't feel themselves safe and we

2:34:42just started women safety group very

2:34:46um casual uh not um official and our one

2:34:51of our um member is here uh so

2:34:56you should come and hear their

2:34:59experiences

2:35:01so that's why I think this is very

2:35:03important and my question is what is

2:35:07stopping us to do these things not

2:35:10putting it on on our strategic plan

2:35:14because as K said most of thing is

2:35:16related with the you know police

2:35:18department so we have right you are

2:35:20working so

2:35:22what is the reason we need to have put

2:35:25this on our strategic plan

2:35:29>> is that anything like stopping you or

2:35:31you need help

2:35:31>> I think it's just a it is it's not just

2:35:34a focus of ordinary everyday you know

2:35:38delivering the services like there is a

2:35:40heightened attention to these

2:35:42[cough and clears throat] issues there's

2:35:43a great deal of community conversation

2:35:46and input that we received at the staff

2:35:48level that you are all receiving from

2:35:49council around this yeah

2:35:51>> around this topic so I don't look at it

2:35:53as sort of like okay we just we're

2:35:55providing a great service we know our

2:35:56service level we're meeting those

2:35:58service level like it it demands I think

2:36:00an intentional um focus, you know, I

2:36:03think from you all to sort of support

2:36:05what the direction is that we are doing

2:36:07whether or not it's called out as a

2:36:09priority or not.

2:36:10>> Yeah. Ben

2:36:11>> um yeah, I'll just like I do support it.

2:36:13I think it's I think it's good to uh put

2:36:16it as an additional pillar in the

2:36:17strategic plan. I think there's

2:36:18definitely more conversation to be had

2:36:20>> about it. I wonder um just before

2:36:23Palin's question when you were talking

2:36:25about you know Matt and others like

2:36:27sitting at these tables and these

2:36:28conversations happening but no one kind

2:36:30of like system

2:36:32>> is that what like the strategy uh 3.41

2:36:36establish multi- agency accountability

2:36:38working group to convene public safety

2:36:40and public health leaders to identify

2:36:42service and accountability gaps. Is

2:36:44>> is that what that is?

2:36:45>> Yeah.

2:36:46>> Right. I think that's great.

2:36:48>> Good question. I I I think Jim was right

2:36:50when he said, you know, you go to a

2:36:54meeting and and people talk and everyone

2:36:56shares and then you go back home and you

2:36:58go to the next meeting and you talk and

2:37:00you share and you get the problems on

2:37:02the table. But we you end up with just

2:37:04the problems on the table unless you

2:37:05take strategic action and that requires

2:37:07leadership. It requires a convenor that

2:37:10holds the table accountable that that

2:37:12divides up responsibilities that says

2:37:14here's what we agreed to do last month.

2:37:17We need to have that done. And the next

2:37:18month, you check in. Did you do your

2:37:20part? Did you do your part? And an inter

2:37:22agency group that does that is going to

2:37:24be a group that works and that drives

2:37:26change. Right now, we're floating and

2:37:28we've got great people doing lots of

2:37:30good work, but that's that to me seems

2:37:33like the keystone here. And and when

2:37:36when you talk about leadership, you can

2:37:38wait for somebody or you can say this

2:37:41strategic input or the strategic

2:37:44priority says we're committed to be a

2:37:46leader in drive and the people I think

2:37:50across the spectrum in our community are

2:37:53calling for it including people who are

2:37:55struggling.

2:37:57>> Okay.

2:37:58>> Um so I don't disagree with any of this.

2:38:00Um, I I want to come back to uh the the

2:38:05pillar of of it being community safety

2:38:08phrased like that. I I'm not convinced

2:38:11that we have a huge problem with lack of

2:38:15safety in Montpielar. I think we have a

2:38:17problem with sometimes people feeling

2:38:20like they're unsafe. We have a problem

2:38:21with really disruptive antisocial

2:38:24behavior that makes it hard for the

2:38:26community to function. We have problems

2:38:27with people who don't have a place to

2:38:29sleep at night. We have problems with

2:38:30people with with substance abuse

2:38:32disorder who are disturbing other

2:38:34people. I mean, like, you know, so so

2:38:36the it's trying to boil it down to

2:38:38safety sounds a little too much like

2:38:41there's these dangerous people out there

2:38:42and we need to make sure we go and get

2:38:44them and we stop them from doing what

2:38:45they're doing when it's so much bigger

2:38:48than that. and and so much not just

2:38:51bigger than that, but there are people

2:38:53who would really benefit from

2:38:57some

2:38:59resources that

2:39:01a a more unified approach might be able

2:39:04to get to them, which would then result

2:39:06in other people feeling safer in the

2:39:08community.

2:39:11And you know, I will say when I was just

2:39:14looking at the notion of safety, it was

2:39:16like folks who are safe from extreme

2:39:19>> Yeah.

2:39:19>> you know, from extreme weathers, folks

2:39:21who are safe from the conditions of

2:39:23poverty that make them unsafe and

2:39:25unhealthy as well. But I'm I'm open to

2:39:28whatever

2:39:29vernacular we wish to I I agree that the

2:39:33the the framing of it, the naming of the

2:39:35thing is important, but as I look down

2:39:38through the meat of this thing, I I feel

2:39:41like this is very much on the right

2:39:44track. And I feel like even some of the

2:39:45things that I hear Carrie um voicing as

2:39:48concerns. I I see some of those things

2:39:52addressed in here. Um but I I agree also

2:39:55there's probably a longer larger

2:39:56conversation um and

2:39:58>> some of it is just a limitation to what

2:39:59we do, right? like we're not a service

2:40:01provider to

2:40:03>> Yeah. We're not supposed to.

2:40:04>> But but

2:40:06>> anecdotally,

2:40:07I I've I've seen um several successes

2:40:11come from the situation table, you know,

2:40:13of folks that I see on the street. I'll

2:40:15refer them and then they wind up in

2:40:17housing or they wind up um averting

2:40:20going to prison by participating in some

2:40:23prison is the wrong word, but but

2:40:25incarceration by participating in other

2:40:27things. So there's I feel like the

2:40:29situation table is an excellent model on

2:40:32a very specific case by case and what

2:40:36may be missing is that kind of model

2:40:39applied to the broader systemic things

2:40:42and identifying those gaps inter agency

2:40:44that are not individual cases. Um just

2:40:49to maybe sorry just real quick like

2:40:51going back to that right like the key

2:40:52word in that sentence is establish right

2:40:55like so that is the city saying we are

2:40:57going to establish that multi- agency

2:41:00accountability working group

2:41:01>> to pro provide that leadership

2:41:03>> right and I think going back to Palin's

2:41:05question about like what does this need

2:41:06to be in a strategic plan like I think

2:41:09it does because it's like next up is the

2:41:11budgeting conversation right and right

2:41:13>> so if we're going to do establish

2:41:15something if we're going to do something

2:41:18um and we've spelled it out in this in a

2:41:20plan like this then that presumably is

2:41:23going to inform our budget decisions.

2:41:25>> So one question is I mean assuming that

2:41:27we do this don't expect you to have an

2:41:30answer now is who's going to do it um

2:41:33and what what's that going to cost also

2:41:35I think Mr. Jesic has had his hand

2:41:37raised. So

2:41:39>> So before I came to the city, I used to

2:41:41work at the US agency for international

2:41:43development and it had a very clear

2:41:46separation between people who responded

2:41:48to emergencies and people who did

2:41:50development, right? So if there was an

2:41:53earthquake, we sent people with tents

2:41:56and and then development was a different

2:41:58project. I think that's the problem we

2:42:00have here as well where we're worried

2:42:02about the crisis that's in front of us.

2:42:04the situation tables about dealing with

2:42:06the immediate crisis, but there's nobody

2:42:09really establishing a long-term strategy

2:42:13or how we're going to find the housing,

2:42:14how we're going to establish durable

2:42:16systems that are going to be understood

2:42:18by everyone in the area. And I I I would

2:42:22encourage as you think about this, I

2:42:24would encourage you to think about what

2:42:26does the what does the model future look

2:42:30like that we're going to be working

2:42:31towards as opposed to which fires are we

2:42:33going to put out this week?

2:42:36>> Um

2:42:39do does it seem like there's consensus

2:42:43to sort of move forward with this and

2:42:45discuss it further?

2:42:46>> Yes. Um yes. And you know, I'm totally

2:42:51open to

2:42:53>> restructuring some of the wording and

2:42:55addition of additional things relative

2:42:57to the community well-being aspects of

2:43:00this. I also realize that I think

2:43:02there's some missing tools here just

2:43:04related to um you know like what our CJC

2:43:09used to do and how to sort of place

2:43:13those beneficial tools that don't exist

2:43:15in the community currently. um could

2:43:18build get built in here as well.

2:43:20>> Yeah.

2:43:21>> And maybe we can also I don't know who

2:43:23to talk to uh review the language so we

2:43:26don't target any specific population.

2:43:30>> Uh because to me it is about creating

2:43:34well-being and safe environment for all

2:43:37of us. It is not like oh we are trying

2:43:39to protect our community from this group

2:43:42or this population. So I don't know um

2:43:46maybe you know better because you are

2:43:48working with different people just is

2:43:50there any language here triggering or

2:43:54targeting any specific group?

2:43:56>> Yeah I'm open to that.

2:43:58>> Thank you.

2:44:02>> We're about to move on right and I just

2:44:04want to be clear and sure that we're not

2:44:07saying yes to these um strategies. It's

2:44:10more to like yes, let's continue this

2:44:12discussion. But there's a there's a lot

2:44:15of detail in here in the strategies to

2:44:17to talk about next time we talk about

2:44:20this.

2:44:21>> Great.

2:44:22>> Okay.

2:44:24>> Okay. And I'd be happy to build this out

2:44:26too of like where like where is this

2:44:28cross referenced in the city plan for

2:44:30you know everyone's sort of clear um

2:44:32objective around that.

2:44:33>> If we had specific suggestions we could

2:44:35send them to you as well, right?

2:44:36>> That would be great. Thank you.

2:44:40Okay, thank you all.

2:44:43>> Sorry, one last thing.

2:44:44>> Yes, please.

2:44:44>> Which is I I love the thoroughess of

2:44:47this and we just spent a lot of time

2:44:50taking some very thorough things and

2:44:52kind of combining and whittling them

2:44:53down into into a tight thing.

2:44:56>> So, um hopefully this fourth pillar

2:44:58doesn't take up as much space as the

2:45:00other three tightened up pillars

2:45:02combined in it in its final form. Good.

2:45:05That's great.

2:45:08Okay. Thank you all. Okay. Um

2:45:13>> 98. So for our next conversation,

2:45:17I'm going to Do you think you could pull

2:45:18the PowerPoint back up, Evelyn? Um I am

2:45:21going to ask folks to pull out their

2:45:23phones because we're going to do a

2:45:24seated um we're going to do some seated

2:45:27exercises with tech to sort of wake

2:45:29everybody up a little bit and um put

2:45:32some visual aids in front of you.

2:45:34[clears throat]

2:45:35>> So do you have a phone? No,

2:45:36>> you can borrow mine. You can borrow

2:45:38mine. Um, okay. Well, let's go to my

2:45:40PowerPoint first just to get us back on

2:45:42track so I remain organized.

2:45:47Okay. Please go forward.

2:45:58All right. So, talk to J. Okay. Local

2:46:02options tax allocation policy. So, um,

2:46:05this is sort of the overview of how

2:46:06we'll run through this conversation and

2:46:08get through as much of it as as you all

2:46:11have endurance for tonight. We can bring

2:46:13back, um, we'd like to do a little

2:46:15icebreaker around this. Uh, Heather is

2:46:18going to present the data around, um,

2:46:21the local options tax, uh, the

2:46:23collections, um, how we've spent it in

2:46:26the past, and some proposed funding

2:46:28options. So I don't know Heather if you

2:46:31want to make a space up here but what

2:46:33we'll do is we'll go Evelyn if you want

2:46:35to tee up our first icebreaker here. So

2:46:38we're starting here with a very broad

2:46:40conversation. So in the past you all you

2:46:43know the law hasn't existed for very

2:46:45long right we passed town meeting day

2:46:47March 2025 started collections July 1st

2:46:502025 through 2026 and now we're in you

2:46:55know October of 2026. So you have one

2:46:57full year of revenue collection around

2:46:59it. And um in the for the first year of

2:47:03revenues, you all waited until some

2:47:05monies came in and then decided to make

2:47:07specific allocations around those funds

2:47:10and said, "I want to buy this. I want to

2:47:12buy this. We want to put some money in

2:47:13this pot." For this the budget that

2:47:15we're currently in for this year, you

2:47:18did not use the um local options tax in

2:47:21that way. Thanks, ma'am. um you used it

2:47:24to offset some uh expenditures in

2:47:27infrastructure and to be able to elevate

2:47:29the infrastructure budget a bit higher

2:47:30and then the rest of it got rolled into

2:47:33the budget as so to help level set the

2:47:35budget and reduce the impact of property

2:47:37tax increase. So you know kind of big

2:47:40different

2:47:42um approaches to the use of this fund.

2:47:45Now, when I came in to this job, one of

2:47:47the things that was on my plate was to

2:47:50have a discussion with you all relative

2:47:51to setting a policy around this and

2:47:53whether you want to set a policy around

2:47:55this. And so, I think we're starting at

2:47:57the top of the funnel and trying to

2:47:59whittle down here on the discussion

2:48:01around um around the you know, how

2:48:05narrow of a funnel you want to get to

2:48:07this or whether you want to just retain

2:48:09flexibility in each budget year to

2:48:12figure out what to do with those

2:48:13revenues. So, um, to do this, we're just

2:48:16going to we're going to talk through

2:48:17some kind of words and values, and then

2:48:20we're going to have some, um, statements

2:48:21that you can compare and contrast

2:48:23against each other and, [snorts]

2:48:25um, and we'll see where we get on

2:48:28whether you want to adopt a policy and

2:48:30how narrowly focused it should be. So, I

2:48:33would invite you here, Jim, will give

2:48:35you hold up the my phone to the QR code

2:48:38there. And then we're just gonna ask

2:48:41when you when it populates for you, just

2:48:43put in a word for you that that helps to

2:48:46explain what your preference and

2:48:48priority for um the local options tax

2:48:52revenue would be.

2:48:59>> One word,

2:49:00>> think you can put a phrase, but

2:49:02generally a word.

2:49:03>> Just looking at a blank screen, you just

2:49:05type in a word.

2:49:06>> I think so. And you could, you know,

2:49:08flexibility downtown,

2:49:10you know, paving

2:49:13>> trees.

2:49:14>> You're in. See your nickname on the

2:49:16screen. Is that what you're saying?

2:49:17>> That's all I'm seeing.

2:49:18>> So once everybody's in.

2:49:19>> Oh, then she'll start.

2:49:21>> Yes.

2:49:21>> Thanks, [laughter] Evelyn.

2:49:22>> Yep.

2:49:27>> You need help?

2:49:28>> Yeah.

2:49:29>> Let's see. We got

2:49:34>> this.

2:49:36It's your name or nickname. What do you

2:49:38want?

2:49:39>> A little bit different than

2:49:42you'll see your name under the

2:49:44particles.

2:49:49>> Who's Elma?

2:49:50>> I don't know.

2:49:53>> Good one.

2:50:01>> Sious technical assistance. Let me know.

2:50:04There you go. All right, looks like

2:50:05we're waiting on one more.

2:50:26>> I'll get there eventually.

2:50:27>> You want to

2:50:28>> You start with

2:50:29>> No pressure.

2:50:31>> Please start without

2:50:32>> Don't take the picture.

2:50:33>> I know. I know. I was on airplane mode

2:50:36cuz I didn't want my phone to interrupt

2:50:38me.

2:50:48All right, here we are.

2:50:56>> So, you should see on your screens where

2:50:58you can enter your one word.

2:51:02>> Just one word.

2:51:04Where do I enter that?

2:51:06>> Yeah, we do that.

2:51:11>> Do we hear word cloud?

2:51:13>> Where are we putting?

2:51:15>> Well, yeah, you should have a

2:51:18Yep. On your screen.

2:51:20>> Question one.

2:51:21>> It says question. Question one.

2:51:23>> I don't know.

2:51:25>> Answer here.

2:51:26>> There [clears throat] you go. Tape your

2:51:27answer.

2:51:28>> Had to hit start twice.

2:51:33watch the whole thing. Where'd it go?

2:51:36>> Um, you you're back to your camera.

2:51:40Switch to the other app. Another app

2:51:43>> where you're opening your browser.

2:51:49>> No,

2:51:50keep saying the same thing. [laughter]

2:51:57>> All right. If this isn't fun, we can

2:51:58also just start.

2:51:59>> This is fun. [laughter]

2:52:03Need one more answer and then it'll move

2:52:04on.

2:52:11[cough]

2:52:19Right.

2:52:40>> All right.

2:52:45Look at that.

2:52:46>> I love it. [snorts]

2:52:47>> Very nice.

2:52:50>> Yes.

2:52:51>> Did we get We're missing one? Unless

2:52:52someone said something.

2:52:54>> Someone might have said something twice

2:52:56and it looks like infrastructure might

2:52:58be the biggest word.

2:52:59>> Yeah.

2:53:02[laughter]

2:53:08>> All right. Cool. Great.

2:53:11>> All right. So, this just keep these in

2:53:12mind. So, you had sort of one initial

2:53:14reaction of like what's an important

2:53:15priority to you. I'm gonna invite

2:53:16Heather to come out up and we'll talk

2:53:18through the data of what the money looks

2:53:21like and is looking like. Can you

2:53:24>> We have um Evelyn has the PowerPoint

2:53:26slides

2:53:28forward

2:53:30>> as you need.

2:53:44Oh, wait. No, it's still on. I put it in

2:53:46my PowerPoint, I believe.

2:53:49>> Oh, got it. Sorry. Had it as a separate

2:54:18Yeah, you can go to the next one.

2:54:19>> Yes.

2:54:21Come on.

2:54:42do without slideshow mode if you just

2:54:44want to talk to

2:54:49me to advance the slide.

2:54:52>> Okay,

2:54:54sure.

2:54:56Okay. Hi all. Heather Graves, the

2:54:58finance director, uh here to talk about

2:55:01lot. Um so

2:55:05it was first adopted in March town

2:55:09meeting warning 2025. Um

2:55:13and

2:55:15at the same time we adopted article 5

2:55:19which allotted $50,000 to Monte Alive

2:55:21and $100,000 to infrastructure.

2:55:26Um it was first implemented for FY26 so

2:55:31July 1st 2025

2:55:33[snorts]

2:55:34excuse me. Um [clears throat] the

2:55:37distribution from the state in FY26 was

2:55:4075% which was actually just increased

2:55:43right before that. Uh it used to

2:55:45[clears throat] be 70% and 30% to the

2:55:47state's pilot fund.

2:55:50Um we do pay fees for each return. Um

2:55:56it's $5.96

2:55:58flat rate for each return that is filed.

2:56:01And that's

2:56:01>> what does that mean?

2:56:03>> Start with repacking. So they sorry they

2:56:07have to file their sales information. Um

2:56:12some I believe do more often than

2:56:15monthly but not le not more than monthly

2:56:20like they're required to report at least

2:56:22monthly. The businesses and

2:56:23>> the city pays six bucks a piece. Mhm.

2:56:28>> Yep. We do have to pay that fee.

2:56:30[snorts]

2:56:35on article five on the ballot.

2:56:37>> Yeah.

2:56:37>> That specific did that I can't remember.

2:56:40Did that specifically direct that the

2:56:41$50,000 and the $100,000 to downtown

2:56:44come from the local option tax revenue?

2:56:46>> Yes.

2:56:47>> But just for that year.

2:56:48>> Yes.

2:56:49>> Right.

2:56:53>> This is a snapshot of the data that we

2:56:57receive quarterly. Um whenever there is

2:57:00a quarterly

2:57:02um what's the word I'm looking for? They

2:57:06[snorts] do this quarterly. They review

2:57:07all the sales. They calculate the town's

2:57:10portion as well as the fees that need to

2:57:12be taken out of it. Um the last column

2:57:16town check amount is the amount that we

2:57:19end up receiving after it's split 7525

2:57:23and then our fee is taken out.

2:57:27So the very bottom of the right hand

2:57:29column uh 1,198,920

2:57:34that is what we received for FY26 lot.

2:57:39>> Everything.

2:57:40>> What's that?

2:57:41>> Everything.

2:57:43>> Uh no, this actually would just be the

2:57:45local options sales and use tax,

2:57:47>> right?

2:57:48>> Wouldn't be I was just going to say it's

2:57:49not including the meals and rooms.

2:57:51>> Are we still collecting from Burlington

2:57:54and Middle Sex?

2:57:57uh does

2:57:59>> I don't believe so I think that

2:58:01>> so there were some questions that came

2:58:03up um that I know Sarah Lacroy had dealt

2:58:08with um and she was in uh communication

2:58:12with somebody at the state that

2:58:15um

2:58:17was contacting them and provided contact

2:58:21information for anytime a business owner

2:58:24called to say that was happening.

2:58:27Okay. So,

2:58:29why I'm asking is if some was coming in

2:58:32from them during this and it's gone now,

2:58:37what was that amount?

2:58:39>> Oh, you mean us receiving their revenue?

2:58:42>> Yeah.

2:58:43Um

2:58:44>> I'm not aware of that happening. Well, I

2:58:46brought it to Sarah first because I went

2:58:49to um a mommy in

2:58:54a group there.

2:58:57>> Yeah. And um they said that I sat beside

2:59:00somebody from middle section. She said,

2:59:02"We have people in our town that are

2:59:04being taxed. You're 1%." Because we have

2:59:07the 05602.

2:59:10And then Berlin had some too.

2:59:12>> Oh, okay. Yes, we're talking about the

2:59:14same thing actually. Um, yes. So, that

2:59:17issue was addressed. Sarah was speaking

2:59:20with somebody at the state. Her name's

2:59:22escaping me at the moment. Um,

2:59:24>> so it was fixed.

2:59:26>> Yes.

2:59:26>> Okay.

2:59:29>> Thank you.

2:59:30>> You're welcome.

2:59:36This looks really small,

2:59:39right? Sorry about the size of this. I

2:59:41can't quite make it bigger. Um so this

2:59:45is the level of detail that we can get

2:59:48from the state for our lot sales or well

2:59:51sorry for our sales and then the lot uh

2:59:55amount that we receive. Um I tried to

2:59:58highlight for you all kind of how these

3:00:02calculate down at the bottom here for M

3:00:05peelier's portion. Um, so

3:00:10of the

3:00:12online sales,

3:00:15um, Montpelier,

3:00:17and this is like all Vermont online

3:00:20sales, Mont Peelier's portion is 2.9% of

3:00:23online

3:00:25and then we get 1% from that.

3:00:30Um and same with the top category here

3:00:35Montpelier sales and use that is our

3:00:38local businesses and what we see over a

3:00:413month period in retail and we receive

3:00:461% of that.

3:00:54So in our packet it says that we got 38%

3:00:57of the LOT that 1.1 98 uh 38% came from

3:01:03retail establishments in month.

3:01:05>> Correct.

3:01:05>> And 62 came from online sales. Correct.

3:01:08>> But that's just from the third quarter

3:01:10and we don't know if that'll stay

3:01:12consistent.

3:01:13>> Right.

3:01:14>> Yeah. That can fluctuate.

3:01:18>> Yeah. It was just helpful to We don't

3:01:20have a lot of great data. Yeah,

3:01:22>> but it's super interesting.

3:01:24>> And unfortunately, this data is very

3:01:27limited. Like what you see here is what

3:01:30we have access to.

3:01:31>> Shows you how people are shopping.

3:01:33>> But you can't break it out uh by store,

3:01:37right? They won't we wouldn't know, for

3:01:39example, how much we're getting, how

3:01:40much we're getting from Shaws.

3:01:42>> I don't believe that's available to us.

3:01:44No. So, we're not going to make a voting

3:01:47decision tonight, but we're

3:01:49brainstorming

3:01:50priorities for investment,

3:01:53>> right?

3:01:54>> And and I think importantly the

3:01:56structure that we want to have for this

3:01:58going forward. Do we want to have some

3:02:01hard and fast rules about certain

3:02:02percentages or dollars that are reserved

3:02:04for something? Do we want to preserve

3:02:06more flexibility or some combination? I

3:02:08think

3:02:08>> I suspect accommodation.

3:02:10>> I suspect so too.

3:02:11>> I think of it as like guiding principles

3:02:13for this. um [snorts] you always retain

3:02:15the flexibility in deciding it but I

3:02:17think articulating what those guiding

3:02:19principles might be around the specific

3:02:22revenue source would be helpful.

3:02:26>> So I can't see the figures but the 1.2

3:02:31million

3:02:32>> that was the whole thing.

3:02:34>> Yeah.

3:02:35>> And so what was our share after the

3:02:37state and what we had to pay?

3:02:40>> Oh that's

3:02:40>> No, that was our share after

3:02:42>> Oh that was it. That is what Mont Pillar

3:02:44took in.

3:02:45>> That's the net, Jim. That's like we get

3:02:47that [snorts] money. 1.198

3:02:49is ours.

3:02:50>> So, what was the total? So, it was a

3:02:53higher total that was taken in.

3:02:55>> Yeah, I think it's just above 1.3

3:03:00million. I thought I had it in front of

3:03:02me. I may not.

3:03:05>> Yeah. The last one.

3:03:08>> There it is. Yep.

3:03:10>> 179.

3:03:11>> The middle column. [music] town portion

3:03:12of tax collected.

3:03:16>> This would be a great thing for the BLCT

3:03:18policy committee to advocate for more a

3:03:21higher percentage coming. I mean, the

3:03:23fact that we're taking 25%

3:03:25>> and $6 for each one of those

3:03:28>> charging us. Yeah.

3:03:30>> I know.

3:03:31>> That's

3:03:32sorry.

3:03:34>> I will say they did change the law last

3:03:36year. So, so it could go up to 80% if

3:03:39the pilot surplus reaches a certain

3:03:42threshold

3:03:44>> which may or may not

3:03:47>> using

3:03:49Montpielario generated revenue to pay

3:03:51their pilot obligation. I mean it's

3:03:53bizarre.

3:03:54>> Great. It doesn't that doesn't make any

3:03:55sense.

3:03:57>> Okay, let's

3:04:00work.

3:04:00>> Let's start talking about things that

3:04:01beyond you can do it. I recognize we're

3:04:06probably not going to get I may we may

3:04:07not get through all of our fun

3:04:09activities we have planned for you all

3:04:10in this conversation. Um but keep going

3:04:14because you'll talk about how they chose

3:04:15to spend the money.

3:04:16>> Yeah. Okay. So here's how it was spent

3:04:20in FY26 and how it's currently allotted

3:04:22for FY27.

3:04:24Um two very different approaches to how

3:04:27the money is getting used. FY26 was

3:04:31identified for specific items uh

3:04:34specific dollar amounts whereas in FY27

3:04:38um more was used for uh property tax

3:04:43relief and some for increasing the

3:04:47paving budget to get to a steady state.

3:04:50Um, so FY27's really just kind of

3:04:54falling to the bottom line, helping with

3:04:57the expenses of our general fund.

3:05:04>> All right. So this is what I included in

3:05:06your packet relative to some big you

3:05:09know sort of bigger picture concepts for

3:05:10how um you might all want to define some

3:05:13guiding principles here and which you

3:05:16have done in the two [snorts] years that

3:05:18the um you've made allocation decisions

3:05:21for the the lot. So use it to level out

3:05:24the general fund dedicate revenues for

3:05:27the downtown business community. As you

3:05:31know, there are specific requests that

3:05:32have been made for either a certain

3:05:34dollar amount or a certain percentage.

3:05:37You know, 50% of Montpillar Alive

3:05:39continues to request if not more and the

3:05:41Mont Pillar business association has

3:05:43requested 10 to 20%. Um, from this or

3:05:48specific allocations for the business

3:05:50community is another approach. You might

3:05:52say, "Yeah, we want to support the MBA,

3:05:54but we want specific project. We want to

3:05:56fund specific projects, not just a

3:05:58general dedication of funds that they

3:06:00then can use however they choose. Um,

3:06:03and then some of the specific

3:06:04allocations here recommended by staff.

3:06:07This is just a little bit of a partial

3:06:09Christmas tree that we threw together

3:06:11that it represents a mix of strategies

3:06:15which could [music] be de, you know,

3:06:16focused on priority uh strategic

3:06:19priorities

3:06:20um which could be focused around um

3:06:23needed repairs that are underfunded,

3:06:26which could be focused around upgrades

3:06:28that we need that would otherwise have

3:06:30to come up, we'd have to come up with

3:06:32general fund or some restoration of

3:06:34services that were cut. Um, and so those

3:06:37are some ideas that a portion of stash

3:06:41staff have recommended. This list would

3:06:43be long if all staff got to put their

3:06:45requests into this fund and it wouldn't

3:06:48there wouldn't be enough there. Um, so

3:06:51that's just to sort of and we were going

3:06:52to sort of do an exercise with you all

3:06:54where you, you know, compare and

3:06:56contrast and you have some polling

3:06:57statements around um, around these

3:07:01different types of approaches. But I

3:07:02think given that it's so late, let's

3:07:04just have a conversation around um you

3:07:07know where you know what types of

3:07:11guiding principles are going to be

3:07:12highest priority for this council. Um

3:07:16you know I'm hearing there's a mix of

3:07:18both. So you want to retain some

3:07:20flexibility from year [snorts] overyear

3:07:22as opposed to saying we're going to have

3:07:24one policy that's going to drive forward

3:07:26our budget conversations. That you do

3:07:28want to retain some flexibility around

3:07:30that. Um

3:07:32>> yeah,

3:07:32>> you know,

3:07:33>> because priorities change

3:07:35>> and new problems come up

3:07:37>> and we don't anticipate unintended

3:07:40consequences and all that.

3:07:43>> That's why I put versatility.

3:07:46I want this fund to be versatile so we

3:07:49can plug in holes that pop up that we

3:07:52don't know about.

3:07:54>> Well, I think there's long-term

3:07:57applications and and short-term

3:07:59applications. So just looking at a

3:08:02couple one one is the welcome center

3:08:03that the business community's talked

3:08:05about long-term project needs a needs a

3:08:09start needs a certain amount of funding

3:08:12to to get rolling. There's also the this

3:08:15example here of the accounting software

3:08:16for the storm water utility if that's

3:08:19that's a long range

3:08:21revenue source that sort of straightens

3:08:24out the water sewer issue. It's a kind

3:08:27of um

3:08:30one sort of one-time funding to get

3:08:33something long-term up and up and

3:08:36running. Um, if there was a long-term

3:08:39project like, you know, building a new

3:08:42rec center,

3:08:44that would be a very I mean, it could be

3:08:46a 20year project where you're putting

3:08:48aside x dollars a year, you know,

3:08:51untouchable, restricted for a particular

3:08:53thing that we agree, you know, we want

3:08:56to wait for. Um,

3:09:00>> and you did do that in terms of

3:09:01restoring [snorts] fund balance. Um,

3:09:05>> yeah. initial year allocations.

3:09:09>> There's a lot of ways to cut this tie.

3:09:11Right. [clears throat]

3:09:13>> Can you say like sorry Ben and then Gary

3:09:14>> I put up the word like the in investment

3:09:17like and you know what I mean by that is

3:09:19like if we um how do we use this money

3:09:23if we think about it like a business how

3:09:25do we use this money this revenue to

3:09:27generate additional revenue over the

3:09:29long term. Right? So, it's like if our

3:09:31downtown is generating 38% of the

3:09:34revenue from the local option tax,

3:09:36should we be making some investment in

3:09:38the downtown to ensure that they

3:09:40continue to generate that amount of

3:09:41revenue, if not more? Right. Um, so

3:09:45that's just like in general how I'm

3:09:46thinking about it and it's the similar

3:09:48why last time I really supported like

3:09:50let's put 200,000 to get to the steady

3:09:53state on on paving, right? that like

3:09:55these these investments that kind of pay

3:09:58off over the long term and even just

3:10:00like the example that you just used S

3:10:02right of like putting money away for the

3:10:03rec center like

3:10:06that's like something to really think

3:10:07about right because if we were going to

3:10:09do a project like that doesn't it make

3:10:11if something's inevitable

3:10:13uh um and just going to become more

3:10:16expensive it's better to do it sooner

3:10:17rather than later right like we could

3:10:18put money away or we could you know what

3:10:21I mean

3:10:21>> and so [snorts] I just think about um

3:10:23maintaining both that ethos of like

3:10:26making investments that generate revenue

3:10:28for the city and um but also maintaining

3:10:31flexibility for all these kind of

3:10:33budgetary things that kind of come up. I

3:10:35would I would look at it as percentage

3:10:37buckets of like 25% for the downtown,

3:10:3925% minimum for infrastructure, you

3:10:42know, maybe the other 50%. I'm just

3:10:44starting a conversation, but 50% for um

3:10:47general operations or fund balance

3:10:50really, which is the other elephant in

3:10:51the room that we're not talking about.

3:10:52Well, I brought up the rec rec center

3:10:54partly because it's an Colchester is an

3:10:57example. That's what they actually did.

3:10:59They, you know, they saved X amount so

3:11:01that when it came time to bond,

3:11:03>> they didn't have to bond for as much.

3:11:06So,

3:11:06>> but I I maybe,

3:11:07>> yeah, maybe.

3:11:09>> No, I I agree with the general idea of

3:11:11in finding ways that an investment uh

3:11:14replenishes itself. Yeah.

3:11:16>> Stock market.

3:11:18>> You know about that, right?

3:11:21I uh I also want to discuss like how

3:11:25long we are planning to do like

3:11:28flexibility like can we discuss that oh

3:11:32next 5 years

3:11:34we will do what we have been doing but

3:11:36after 5 years this money will be gone

3:11:41this like maybe fund or like reserves

3:11:44like somewhere. So can we just talk

3:11:46about that option too or we can just say

3:11:49yeah every year we will whoever the

3:11:51council is here they will decide to put

3:11:55money or percentages in different

3:11:57things. I think maybe we should talk

3:11:59about also like specific time then after

3:12:02that time when our downtown is better

3:12:05because co flats and then this is like

3:12:07better then now we don't have to pluck

3:12:10the holes as you we were saying now we

3:12:13will just like strengthen our reserves

3:12:16so I think

3:12:19I really love to see that discussion too

3:12:21if it is possible

3:12:25>> your sort of financial planner hat on.

3:12:27There are a couple ways to think about

3:12:31one that we have all these expenses that

3:12:34we must cover and we have several

3:12:37sources of revenue and the the money

3:12:39that we spend in some ways is agnostic

3:12:41where it's coming from. I mean, if

3:12:43you're as a household planning to pay

3:12:45for food, clothing, shelter,

3:12:46transportation, healthcare, maybe some

3:12:49vacations, it doesn't matter how much

3:12:51money is coming from social security or

3:12:53a pension or out of your 401k or where

3:12:56the money comes from. You need a certain

3:12:58amount of money to do that. So, that's

3:13:00the one way of looking at this is not to

3:13:03look at this as special money that we

3:13:06get to spend because now we have

3:13:07something extra. We also have property

3:13:10taxes that are perennially sort of too

3:13:12high and we still have to pay for all

3:13:14the services that the city needs to

3:13:16provide. On the other hand, if I mean I

3:13:21I think the the first step I mean if

3:13:23we're just a household, the first thing

3:13:25I would look at is what is the emergency

3:13:27fund that we need, the general fund or

3:13:29the fund balance for example, [snorts]

3:13:31and really focus part of this at least

3:13:35on replenishing that. And once that goal

3:13:38is met, then we have that money to to

3:13:40spend it somewhere else. Or if for to

3:13:44your point Palin about doing something

3:13:46for five years, if we wanted to create a

3:13:48revolving loan fund, for example, that's

3:13:51something where we may put a percentage

3:13:53of this away each year until the the

3:13:56loan fund amount that we're looking to

3:13:58to have is met and then we can [snorts]

3:14:01set that aside. But I do think that

3:14:04setting aside part of it just for

3:14:05general purposes is probably pretty

3:14:07important.

3:14:08>> Well, we did last year um at what 324

3:14:14and if we don't do that then that money

3:14:16is going to have to fill the budget from

3:14:18somewhere else. So I I think we have to

3:14:21be conservative in making sure that

3:14:23we're not costing taxpayers more because

3:14:27we just because we've added a tax that

3:14:29we used last year to subsidize parts of

3:14:31the budget. Um, but it strikes me that

3:14:35that maybe we reverse engineer to to get

3:14:38to percentages rather than start with

3:14:4125% [cough]

3:14:42to each thing. But it it does strike me

3:14:44that because we have a strategic plan

3:14:46that has four potentially four

3:14:48priorities. We ought to think about

3:14:51those priorities as we look at the

3:14:53investment. So I'm kind of with Ben on

3:14:55on the idea of investing

3:14:58in the economy that has produced the

3:15:00revenue for us and that would connect to

3:15:03issues like um like Montpillar alive

3:15:07like the m the Montillar business

3:15:09association and the welcome center and

3:15:11that that that's a good block of work

3:15:13that would be an important

3:15:14accomplishment to advance those three

3:15:16things this year. I think that um having

3:15:20some of the money to be devoted to

3:15:22infrastructure is important. it's going

3:15:23to be in part of whatever happens with

3:15:26general fund money anyway. But [snorts]

3:15:28um we could be designating for a

3:15:29particular need there. Then I think in

3:15:32economic development

3:15:34um we I've already talked about economic

3:15:37development but housing you know we we

3:15:39have a proposal on the board to seed um

3:15:43and stimulate housing by investing in

3:15:46eliminating the building permits which

3:15:48is a loss of revenue that we could be um

3:15:51plugging in some of this money into if

3:15:53we chose to take that direction. The

3:15:55thing that strikes me is it gives us the

3:15:56creativity to invest in [clears throat]

3:15:58things that don't add up new new

3:16:00expenses onto the tax roles that come

3:16:02from the general fund. Um, and then

3:16:05public safety and well-being. We might

3:16:07want to if this is a new initiative, if

3:16:09we choose that direction, there's going

3:16:12to be some costs around developing

3:16:15the and maybe this is what you're

3:16:17talking about, community resource

3:16:18assistance team. I'm not sure. It takes

3:16:21$250,000 to invite all these folks

3:16:23together and facilitate meetings and

3:16:26drive a strong agenda, but it probably

3:16:29takes a lead staff person that to to

3:16:32provide the leadership Jim described

3:16:34that can help coordinate and drive this

3:16:36work forward. So, I I think there's a

3:16:38package there that's really vital and

3:16:41and could be great for the city right

3:16:44now to [snorts] have some of those lead

3:16:46investments that that show these

3:16:48strategies aren't marks on the wall.

3:16:50They're actually um we're taking the

3:16:53lead as a city to drive our core

3:16:55priorities forward.

3:16:57Um, one of the things that I think we

3:16:59should think about is, and what I like

3:17:02about percentages, Ben, is this is just

3:17:05a one-year thing. We don't know. We

3:17:09haven't done this long enough to really

3:17:11have a solid average. And what if we

3:17:13have a recession,

3:17:15>> which could happen, and we don't, we get

3:17:18half this amount. So, when somebody like

3:17:22the MBA says, "Well, we want 200,000

3:17:27Well, maybe in one year that's easily

3:17:29done, in another it's not. And they're

3:17:32going to say, "Well, we're used to that

3:17:33200,000."

3:17:35And that's why I don't like figures

3:17:38because based on one year,

3:17:42um

3:17:42>> I think what what the MBA is asking for

3:17:45is 20%.

3:17:47>> Yeah.

3:17:47>> The only hard dollar figure that I'm

3:17:49aware of is

3:17:50>> [snorts]

3:17:50>> $50,000 to

3:17:52>> They were asking [clears throat] 20%

3:17:53based on this year's amount.

3:17:56That's why they put 200,000.

3:17:58>> Well, the the the how they would spend

3:18:01it was based off of that 200,000 as

3:18:04being 20% of but what they're asking for

3:18:07is 20% not a dollar amount,

3:18:09>> right?

3:18:10>> Well, and I think that's an important

3:18:11conversation though because do you want

3:18:13to just give them a lump sum or do you

3:18:15want them to sort of requisition against

3:18:17a project that you support?

3:18:20>> K. I'm sorry.

3:18:22>> Um I I I'm really going around and

3:18:24around about this. I appreciate this

3:18:25conversation. I feel like everybody's

3:18:27had something that's really added to my

3:18:29thinking about this, but I keep coming

3:18:31back to um this is tax money that we've

3:18:35collected from people in Montpielar

3:18:38mostly because those online sales are

3:18:40not tourists, you know, those are

3:18:42Montpielar residents and we should be

3:18:45using that money to run the city like we

3:18:48do all the other tax money that we get.

3:18:50And so, um, I would be reluctant to

3:18:55assign percentages to any particular

3:18:57thing unless it were, well, I would I'd

3:19:01be reluctant to do that because I I

3:19:03would rather we be thinking about in

3:19:05[snorts] terms of our overall budgeting

3:19:06process every every year that we're

3:19:09thinking, well, what what's our

3:19:10priority? And I think we can agree that

3:19:13we have some immediate priorities that

3:19:15we want to put it towards, but I I don't

3:19:17know that it needs to be treated

3:19:20really differently. And I think it's a

3:19:23little dangerous for us to view it too

3:19:24much like, oh, this extra pile of money

3:19:27that we get to do some fun stuff with. I

3:19:29think, you know, we know that we need to

3:19:31get our fund balance under control and

3:19:33it doesn't matter where the money comes

3:19:34from. Like, that's got to be a top

3:19:35priority. We have a strategic plan.

3:19:37we're going to have these priorities

3:19:39that we need to figure out how much

3:19:40money we're going to put towards them

3:19:42and this is part of money that we

3:19:44[snorts] can use to decide that. And

3:19:46then I mean if Mont Pillar Alive wants

3:19:48to wants $50,000

3:19:52I don't know if that's on top of the

3:19:5339,000 [clears throat]

3:19:55we have been giving that it is. Yeah. So

3:19:57I mean that that's a whole conversation

3:20:00substitute.

3:20:01>> I think it was a substitute.

3:20:03>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Well then that's not

3:20:04that different but it still should

3:20:06that's a conversation that should still

3:20:08be taking place within the context of

3:20:10the overall budget. And [snorts]

3:20:12we're not going to commit a certain

3:20:14amount of money or a certain percentage

3:20:16to any aspect of running the city in

3:20:19perpetuity, right?

3:20:21>> Nothing is in perpetuity because any

3:20:23council has the ability to change it.

3:20:25But I think we're trying to look for

3:20:27>> sort of guiding principles for us.

3:20:32I I would though the the what I

3:20:34generally agree with with what you're

3:20:37saying the one place I would really

3:20:39advocate for is um giving

3:20:44some discretion in terms of whether it's

3:20:46a dollar amount or a percentage to the

3:20:50business association because they're so

3:20:53instrumental in pulling this in. it is

3:20:56reinvesting money back into the if 38%

3:20:59of we don't know I mean we don't have

3:21:01enough data to really know right but

3:21:02assuming that a healthy portion of this

3:21:05is coming from downtown a lot of that is

3:21:08people who don't live here and some of

3:21:10it's you and me but a it's also tourists

3:21:14it's people from the surrounding towns

3:21:15who come and shop here and if one of our

3:21:19four pillars is economic development

3:21:21especially in and around our downtown

3:21:23area that seems like a good investment

3:21:25of this money and that's a sort of

3:21:27recycling compounding effect.

3:21:29>> Yeah. I mean I just I I agree with that

3:21:30and think about like different revenue

3:21:32streams that the city has right around

3:21:34like um water charges right or sewer

3:21:39charges right that like we collect those

3:21:41reinvest them in the system.

3:21:42>> Yeah. But that's like [clears throat]

3:21:43utility.

3:21:44>> Yeah. But I I mean I honestly think of

3:21:46like the downtown ecosystem in a similar

3:21:49kind of way that it's like a a way that

3:21:51generates revenue that we need to you

3:21:54know and I think if you look at other

3:21:55municipalities too that have used the

3:21:57LOT like really successfully like St.

3:21:59Albins is a really good example on that

3:22:00right where they took their LOT and

3:22:02invested it in like streetscaping

3:22:04infrastructure that like transformed

3:22:06their downtown and now it's one of the

3:22:07most vibrant in the state.

3:22:08>> We could do that. Yeah, we could

3:22:10absolutely do that. we could do anything

3:22:13that we want with it. Um, and that's the

3:22:16conversation that we're having now,

3:22:17right? It's like, do we want to is the

3:22:19most important thing facing us right now

3:22:21that we need some extra money for, is

3:22:23it, you know, making the downtown

3:22:25streets [snorts] look better? Is that

3:22:27the most important thing? Or is getting

3:22:29our infrastructure in place, getting our

3:22:31our, you know, all of our infrastructure

3:22:33needs to the steady state? Is it getting

3:22:35our fund balance back to where we want

3:22:36it to be? Like, those are all really

3:22:38important things. and and I [snorts]

3:22:40don't so

3:22:43I I'm not convinced that well anyway

3:22:46I'll stop there. Um I I'm not

3:22:48comfortable with the idea of saying

3:22:50here's a certain revenue source and

3:22:54because it came from this certain area

3:22:56we have to put it back into that certain

3:22:58area. We get we get property tax money

3:23:02from homeowners and property owners in

3:23:04Lillilier and we don't set aside a

3:23:06certain amount of that to say we're

3:23:08going to make sure that goes back to

3:23:10homeowners to you know for flood

3:23:12mitigation or for whatever it is. We

3:23:14don't do that. We we just put it, you

3:23:16know, we might say flood mitigation is

3:23:18important, but we're not specifically

3:23:20Does that make sense? I feel like I'm

3:23:22kind of rambling, but I feel like

3:23:23there's a there's a there's a

3:23:24philosophical question here. There

3:23:25should be a philosophy behind taxation

3:23:28and how we spend our money and I'm not

3:23:31clear what RC is.

3:23:33>> That's why I suggest supporting MBA

3:23:36other organization like a specific time

3:23:40so they can really get that momentum.

3:23:44Then to me I we have a community fund

3:23:46right we have funds we people apply for

3:23:51and we give so maybe we can put the

3:23:53money there like not only one

3:23:56>> yeah one specific organization it will

3:23:58go forever but I'm okay for like a again

3:24:02five 10 year whatever we discuss like to

3:24:05make them really be strong they want

3:24:08like welcome center okay let's start it

3:24:10run it but then [snorts] forever

3:24:13support. I don't know. It's just like

3:24:18um it doesn't make that much sense for

3:24:20our thinking uh public and their money

3:24:23and taxes. But yeah, five 10 years,

3:24:26great. Let's support each other, right?

3:24:29>> I would just say I think my probably

3:24:32strongest recommendation around this is

3:24:35to

3:24:37um recognize the volatile nature of

3:24:40sales tax collections. And so to not get

3:24:43us into a position where we are

3:24:45completely relying on the full amount to

3:24:48support our operational our

3:24:50year-over-year operations

3:24:52um you know and I do think you know a

3:24:55dedication of fund balance creates that

3:24:57cushion. So in a year where you can't

3:24:59make that dedication of fund balance

3:25:01then that's how you close your gap for

3:25:03that year. Hopefully having built a big

3:25:05enough pad over a number of years where

3:25:07it's not too damaging to skip one. But

3:25:10um but that would just be a caution I'd

3:25:12say for when we think about how does

3:25:14this support the budgeting process

3:25:17overall, [snorts]

3:25:18you know, maybe not relying on the full

3:25:21forecasted amount or you know,

3:25:24>> and can you just remind us what our

3:25:25current fund balance is and what our

3:25:27policy is for fund balance?

3:25:28>> I don't know what the exact fund balance

3:25:30is right now. I would I don't know if

3:25:31Heather would know that off the top of

3:25:33her head either, but it's not 15%.

3:25:37[clears throat]

3:25:37>> Think we are about half, right? Our

3:25:39policy is 15 or 6%. It's way below 15%

3:25:43is the housing five or six.

3:25:45>> So maybe you would start by saying

3:25:47>> your home has a fund balance.

3:25:49>> Yeah. At a bare minimum 15% of this fund

3:25:53will go to fund balance as you're like

3:25:55starting even though that's not going to

3:25:58get your full budget fund balance up to

3:26:0015%. It is it is a guiding policy you

3:26:03could just use for this specific revenue

3:26:04that we're talking about right now. Um,

3:26:07you know, and then from that I'm

3:26:09hearing, you know,

3:26:11we're going to pay for strategic plan

3:26:13priorities. We can identify funds from

3:26:16this to go to specific strategic plan

3:26:18items. Um,

3:26:22and then a conversation around I've

3:26:23heard mixed things about the Mont Live

3:26:27and and MBA

3:26:29allocations. I think there's general

3:26:31support to making those, [snorts] but to

3:26:34what amount and to what degree of

3:26:36specificity

3:26:37you all would like to articulate in

3:26:40that, you know, allocation

3:26:42>> be a lot of hands put forward.

3:26:45>> Well, and that's why, you know, if I

3:26:48don't know, I mean, I would recommend

3:26:50that you would say that they have to

3:26:51sort of demonstrate what they're going

3:26:52to use the money for, but you know, that

3:26:56would be the rest of you. and and they

3:26:57have sent in their ideas about what they

3:26:59would spend the money on.

3:27:01>> Right. Right.

3:27:02>> And but I think what maybe you're

3:27:04speaking to, Kelly, is like not just

3:27:06what are you going to spend the money

3:27:06on, but what's the return on investment?

3:27:08Yeah. Exactly. Right. Like if we you

3:27:10know, and I'm I'm like this is coming

3:27:12from a place of curiosity right now.

3:27:13Like if we have a welcome center for

3:27:15three years at this rate, like what do

3:27:18we anticipate the visitor increase being

3:27:19or the visitor experience being that's

3:27:20going to generate additional revenue?

3:27:22I here I [snorts] just want to say like

3:27:24we might not agree on this but I feel

3:27:25like I understand where you're coming

3:27:27from and like the just to say it one

3:27:30more time I'll change your mind but like

3:27:32the philosophy here I think is like this

3:27:35is this is a different revenue source in

3:27:38that um it can go up or down depending

3:27:42on how we use it right like I feel like

3:27:45if we're reinvesting in the downtown

3:27:47there's the chance for the revenue from

3:27:50it to actually grow over the long term,

3:27:53right? And I think that that's different

3:27:56from some of the other revenue streams

3:27:57that we we collect in the city. And the

3:28:00other thing that I would just say too is

3:28:01like that breakdown is really

3:28:03interesting to me. Like the 38% versus

3:28:0562%. But that 38% that's raised that's

3:28:09spent locally in our local businesses.

3:28:11And a dollar spent in our local

3:28:12businesses has a way bigger multiplier

3:28:15effect than the 62% does. Right. And I

3:28:18think so that's something important I

3:28:20think to think like how do we increase

3:28:22the percentage

3:28:24of sales locally [snorts] like how do we

3:28:26use this local option tax? How do you

3:28:28use like money being generated from

3:28:30online sales to support our local

3:28:31businesses so that the money goes

3:28:33further?

3:28:34>> How much of this comes though from

3:28:37businesses that are not in the heart of

3:28:39downtown?

3:28:41>> That's a great question.

3:28:42>> National life

3:28:44um things like that. I'm sure nationally

3:28:47spends a lot of money on certain things

3:28:50to keep their buildings running and

3:28:52everything and so they're, you know,

3:28:54they're not going to see that benefit

3:28:57maybe. Um, one thing about taxpayers is

3:29:01they do get a break

3:29:03on their taxes if their income is a

3:29:06certain Yeah.

3:29:09>> You know, I mean, it's something like

3:29:11only 700 people in in Mont Pillia pay

3:29:14the full freight.

3:29:16You're talking about property taxes.

3:29:18>> Yeah.

3:29:19>> So, I mean, there is help handed back to

3:29:22them in a way if they're lower income.

3:29:29>> Okay. Well, I think we should move

3:29:31towards wrapping up here because it is

3:29:33getting late, but you know, we'll have

3:29:34to come back for this conversation. And

3:29:36I think um what I've heard is to as

3:29:42guiding principles for this is to make

3:29:45sure we're dedicating a portion of it to

3:29:47fund bal building the fund balance for

3:29:49the budget overall. Um articulating

3:29:53which strategic plan priorities

3:29:56we would be funding out of this fund.

3:30:00um investing in the downtown in ways

3:30:02that regenerate are regenerative in

3:30:05those investments

3:30:07and

3:30:09and I think you know from staff's point

3:30:11of view um if we really have some

3:30:13critical kind of oneoff needs we might

3:30:16bring those forward as well um for your

3:30:20consideration

3:30:21>> and maybe we can also ask Mida and

3:30:24business association how long

3:30:27they

3:30:29want this support.

3:30:31>> Is it like forever?

3:30:33>> The sense the sense I get is that it's

3:30:34forever.

3:30:35>> It's totally forever.

3:30:36>> Okay. Just like these are important

3:30:38things. So

3:30:39>> they want to staff that welcome center

3:30:41that's going to take money every year.

3:30:43>> It strikes me that we may have a general

3:30:45sense of priorities, but we're going to

3:30:47be voting one-year budgets,

3:30:48>> right? So, you know, we're really making

3:30:51a decision about how we're going to

3:30:53disperse the money this year, as well as

3:30:55establish a little bit of a track

3:30:57record, which we already have.

3:30:59>> Um, and we'll we'll be changing a little

3:31:01all the time

3:31:02>> all the time.

3:31:02>> Can I just say one thing to that though?

3:31:04Like I agree with that. And yet on

3:31:05something and sorry if this is too in

3:31:07the weeds, but like on the welcome

3:31:08center that's going to take like a

3:31:10particular level of like startup

3:31:12investment and so to do it like on a

3:31:13one-year level or one year time doesn't

3:31:16make a lot of sense to me. Like I think

3:31:18we should try to make I mean I get it

3:31:19every council's different every budget

3:31:21yearly different but like trying to

3:31:22signal like a three-year commitment or

3:31:24something like that that really makes

3:31:26sense. And then just on that one too the

3:31:28budget that we saw does not provide any

3:31:30support from the state. um you know and

3:31:34this would essentially be replacing the

3:31:36state's welcome center that they have

3:31:37yet to you like rehab right and so I

3:31:41think I would love to if if we are going

3:31:44to fund a welcome center using this

3:31:46funding source I think it it should

3:31:48really be used as an incentive to try

3:31:51and leverage additional funding and

3:31:53partnership and leadership from the

3:31:55state um to do it in a partner kind of

3:31:58way not just all of a sudden the

3:32:00taxpayers are going to pay for this

3:32:01>> yeah this could be a good time to ask

3:32:03the governor actually

3:32:05>> and I do believe that that was

3:32:06[laughter] that was part of the sort of

3:32:08math that was napkin sketched out that

3:32:11some portion of it had Yeah.

3:32:13>> And and I will just I mean part of the

3:32:15context for bringing this forward and

3:32:17and I think where you all were

3:32:20in, you know, inspired to have this as a

3:32:23conversation again like before I even

3:32:26showed up is that this is a new revenue.

3:32:29This is a new text to the community.

3:32:31there were commitments made to get

3:32:33people to vote for that and this is

3:32:34being responsive to those. You know,

3:32:37those conditions change over time as you

3:32:39get sort of further and further away

3:32:40from those um authorizing votes for that

3:32:44and budget conditions from year to year.

3:32:46I I mean I I I am uh fundamentally

3:32:50opposed to sales tax and it this was a

3:32:54very hard cell for me and the thing that

3:32:56convinced me that maybe I could just

3:32:58bite the bullet on it was our overall

3:33:01budget is always so tight. We just can't

3:33:04pay for the things we need to pay for to

3:33:06run the city. And so increasing our

3:33:08revenues even though it comes from this

3:33:10incredibly regressive tax that I hate

3:33:13was worth it to me. And I think there I

3:33:16don't think I'm the only one who feels

3:33:17that way. And so that I kind of feel

3:33:19like that's that needs to be honored

3:33:22too, right? Is that that's part of the

3:33:24the reasoning why we have this tax.

3:33:29>> There are many many exceptions to the

3:33:31things that are

3:33:33susceptible to this tax though. So a lot

3:33:35of essentials are not, you know, are not

3:33:39part of it.

3:33:41But I, you know, I I I agree with what

3:33:44you're saying.

3:33:46>> All right. Well,

3:33:47>> you got it right.

3:33:48>> That's Yeah, I I think we got I think we

3:33:50got something. And again, you know, we

3:33:52all recognize

3:33:53>> you got the whole night ready to go,

3:33:55right? Everything we've given you. Take

3:33:58you a year to figure out.

3:34:01>> Um, okay. Well, we can turn off the

3:34:05Zoom, I think. So, let's just take a

3:34:07minute. will I'll just articulate what I

3:34:09see as next steps if there's any you

3:34:12know reflections on this work together

3:34:14folks want to want to share um here at

3:34:17the end I've appreciated this time with

3:34:19you all to think big picture we're often

3:34:22very far in the weeds on some things and

3:34:26so you know I think finding what I think

3:34:29was a very productive and in um many

3:34:32ways you all had very respectful

3:34:34disagreement and a lot of alignment what

3:34:36you for these topics.

3:34:38>> We could have obviously done this all

3:34:40week. And

3:34:42>> so I will come back with um an updated

3:34:46strategic plan for for you all and the

3:34:49three priority pillars that you had

3:34:51adopted last year in a more tightened up

3:34:54kind of way. and we'll work with staff

3:34:57on that to make them um very productive

3:35:00and refined and also calling out sort of

3:35:02how it brings in council's tools and

3:35:05authorities that make sense for these

3:35:07strategic plan pillars and strategies.

3:35:10Um continue to work language and edits

3:35:13around this fourth um community safety

3:35:17and well-being or whatever final title

3:35:19we we land on for that. I do welcome any

3:35:22specific language input that people want

3:35:25to give to me would be helpful. I can

3:35:27envision that needing another goound

3:35:29before we get to a final. Um but I

3:35:32appreciate that acknowledgement [snorts]

3:35:33of the importance of this issue in the

3:35:35community and just the amount of work

3:35:37that staff is dedicating to it on the

3:35:39regular. Um, and then I think we have

3:35:42some guiding principles here that, you

3:35:45know, again, I I think I'll write those

3:35:47up and artic, you know, for a check-in

3:35:49to make sure that we've correctly

3:35:51captured those that help inform um the

3:35:53development of the budget here in the

3:35:55coming months as well regarding the

3:35:58local options tax. Um, any reflections

3:36:01people want to share?

3:36:03>> I just want to say thank you. [snorts]

3:36:06>> Great job. Put this put this together.

3:36:08It was a lot of work. Thanks for Feast

3:36:10Farm and thank you for all the staff

3:36:12just being here all night

3:36:13>> for now what's a what 14 hour day for a

3:36:16lot of people. Thank you very much.

3:36:19>> Yeah.

3:36:20>> Yeah. Thank you.

3:36:22>> Good job. All [applause] right.

3:36:24[cheering]

3:36:39>> [music]