2026-11-05 - Zoning Board of Appeals

0:09Good evening, everyone. This is the Carver Zoning Board of Appeals. We are meeting in room one at the Carver Town Hall. Today is November 5th, 2026. We are beginning the meeting at

0:22approximately 6:31. We welcome our friends from Area 58 who are recording and will be broadcasting our meeting tonight. I am Jim Barrington. I'm the vice chairman who is serving as acting

0:37chairman in Chairman Gray's absence tonight. Also here is Ms. Anita Dahl, Mr. Joseph Sullivan, Mr. Mark Poirier, and our alternate Ms. Kay Spencer, who will be an active voting member tonight.

0:55So we have all five voting members. First on the agenda is to approve the minutes of our September 30th, 2026 meeting. The minutes were issued earlier for review. Has everyone had a chance to

1:11look them over? Yes. Yes. Are there any corrections? No. No. Is there a motion to approve? I make a motion to approve. The minutes of September 30th, 2026. Is there a second? As written.

1:29As written. Yeah. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. The motion passes. Minutes are approved as written. Our first item on the agenda is a discussion on the recommendation to increase garage

1:58and or barn as a right section 290 - 2 - 2 - 0.4 e3. We had a discussion about this at our last board meeting and agreed that the current 700 square foot garage size was restrictive

2:19and should be increased to 1,200 square feet. Mr. Perrier was tasked with composing a draft for the planning board and we'll check and see if there are any updates or any additional questions.

2:34I have one question. Just on just reading through it and my only question is that any square footage on the second floor counts as the overall 1,200 square feet? Is that how you Well,

2:47currently it does. I I I'm I'm going to take one more shot at this and and then if if I'm I'm I'm like I said, I'm ready to be convinced that maybe it's not something

2:59that we should be addressing. But I I keep going back to the question of what why do we have a size limit to begin with? I mean, they come up with a number. I

3:11mean, they they don't want it to be bigger than 700 square feet. We're saying 1,200. Well, what's our rule for limiting the square footage of that to begin with?

3:22Well, I think personally in in you know, in a residential area if you went with a if you didn't have a size you could put up 60 by 80 foot building if you had the setbacks

3:34and it wouldn't fit within a residential area in theory if you didn't have guidelines to follow. Not to say of aesthetics and and that and not character of the neighborhood and

3:45So not to say that if you didn't if you did have a request of that nature they would go through the normal process and come in front of the zoning and have that discussion as to the reason why

3:54they felt it deemed necessary or or need approval. So I think having a baseline as a set square footage is a good start. It's not to say that they can't go further than

4:05that upon request and approval of zoning. And I But I And then once again I'm I'm trying to figure I'm still My question has still been running around in my head is

4:17And I don't mean it's the way that it sounds, but why do we care about that square footage on the second floor? I I personally That's why I'm bringing it up. I think the the square footage

4:25should be included on the base floor. The the width and the and the length of it being 1,200 square feet if there's storage or or second secondary access on the top

4:38it is what it is based on that obviously, but Are you saying So are you saying you you wanted to to part count as part of the 1,200 square feet on the second floor?

4:47that you should not count the second storage area as part of the 1,200 square feet. Right. So but but what we've been doing is including it. If we include it.

4:59we we've been counting it. And I keep going back to the idea that the um if somebody built one up to the maximum size of 1,200 square feet, right? And they said, well, I guess we can't do

5:14anymore than that because that If we're going to count up above, then it's going to count towards more than 1,200 square feet. So they don't put anything up there, but

5:25the building's going to be the same size whether they use that second floor. That's my point. Right. So Unless they make it tall enough without area up above that they could then

5:39put some rooms up there. ADU? ADU small ADU? Well, but they would have to come to the board for the discretion to do that anyway, right? I mean so um Well, by putting the 1,200

5:57square feet, if you're going to use that as the base, then that can flex with the current size for the ADUs, so everybody would be coming. No, they still have to apply for an ADU.

6:10Yeah, I know, but like I wonder if it would just make sense if you're going to not if you're if the second floor isn't going to count, then I wonder if it just maybe we

6:22should try to find a way to make the size of the ADU plus the square footage be the same, I guess. Would that make sense? Or if we're going to approve the 1,200 Mm. with the conditions

6:38no water up there, you know, we could we could throw some things in else to prevent completely storage. It which would make them have to go back to the planning board.

6:50Yeah, all I did is I took the 1,200 and I just did a a square box and figured out two nine-foot garages with a side access door and back door just to see and figure in if someone at

7:01When you say nine-foot, is is that the height of the ceiling? Nine No, nine-foot wide doors. Oh, nine-foot wide doors. And then you got, you know, headers and

7:10you got, you know, stud walls, you got a a three-foot entry door, you have workbenches that might go into a garage. 1,200 gets it it it's eaten up pretty quick.

7:21Right. And And even on the second that second floor, the as we've seen, almost none of them that area upstairs is not all usable square footage anyway because of the

7:33But they could be if they if they built a a six eight exterior wall and then created you know, your your rafters going to as long as they don't exceed the height

7:44the height the the height requirement. So So Anyway, take another pass at it with Yes. I mean, I if you if you'll notice in the change that I put in there, I added the

7:56sentence after the changing of the size. And I And I And you'll notice I put the word ground in parentheses because I didn't know I'm I'm looking for suggestions here as to whether

8:09that should stay or go or um and you those be advised that any usable square footage on the second floor counts to the total square footage of the structure. Permanently that's

8:21that's the rule. That's the law. Right. So if if we're if we're not going to count it then we probably have to And I make some tweak probably have to yeah adjust something

8:34else before you could adjust that. you know unless you put a restriction on the height of the building which would preclude any Not exceed the height of the house.

8:43there already a height restriction? Yeah you don't exceed the height of the house. the height of the house. It's it's it's that's what it is. It's the height of the house, right?

8:51Right. You can't exceed. Without a variance. Right. Without without a variance. Well my suggestion is that um we look at it again now on an individual basis since it's

9:09been rewarded a little bit and at our next meeting decide uh you know we're ready to to Make a final decision. decision. So let me just mention just bring up a couple of other at least one

9:21other thing that I want. So I'm wondering if the way that it's laid out in the when in the book the way the original if you look on uh page six where it um in the bylaw

9:39so you on page six there's E and then you go down to three that's that's where it is there. Yep. So the word garages was looped in with a whole bunch of other things. I'm

9:49wondering if we should separate the garage out as being separate because there's a whole cluster of structures that they're limiting to 700 square feet. Yes.

9:59But that that sort of came to me as I was looking at it again one last time today. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll we'll we'll do a one two um three would be garages and then four would be

10:11the other structures Yeah. for their um for their square footage. And then in terms of the wording of that first sentence there, garages should not exceed a usable

10:27or should I or do we want do we want the word ground floor in there? Cuz that was kind of getting at what you were talking about, Joe, is that, you know, really the garage

10:40functioning as a garage is that grounded footprint. So I don't know if that word needs to be in there, should be in there. I just would want what your thoughts are on that.

11:07I think somewhere you'd have to make a designation, right? That if you if we were changing the way that we ruled things, I think I think we'd have to make that designation somewhere.

11:19I don't know if that's the only place that it would have to be made. No, cuz we've always asked the the person that comes in, petitioner, about what are you doing with the upper

11:30floors? Is it just storage? Is it So when when just and the reason why I'm bringing it up and it I'm I'm not going to belabor it, but it just says, you know, be advised that any usable square

11:42footage on the second floor would be considered as part of the 1,200. So what it what it's doing at that point, let's say it's 400 because of the the [clears throat] the pictures in the

11:53second floor, your first floor is now only got to be eight. And you write back to the 700 square feet. I I I understand that. But but the but it currently cuz we we had a bunch of

12:05cases here where the building inspector was supposed to be counting the second floor as square footage [clears throat] towards the total, and that that wasn't happening.

12:14So we made a point now was of saying and telling people. And then and that certainly doesn't it But we can rate it differently with this as well. we yeah we can we can change that

12:25approach. Like since it's a since it's a problem and there's so many people that are coming forward looking to change that and alter the footprint. Like we said maybe it's time after all

12:36these years to update. I I think you you say [clears throat] your first your ground floor shall not exceed 1,200 square feet. So ground ground floor would have to be added.

12:48So garages shall not exceed a ground floor area of 1,200 square feet. feet. out the word usable then. Yep. All right. And then we can go from there. Cuz it's all usable on the ground floor.

12:59Right. And then you're right it's redundant. Thank you. See see? This is why I needed you guys to take a look at it. But I think we people looking at this should know that

13:11at the present time anyway unless we decide to change it that any usable square footage on the second floor also counts to total square footage. So if they're if they're going

13:19to use that for up there they got to Or come for a variance. Right. They would have to come for a variance. And that's what most people end up Because you'll have some people may not

13:30build you know a second floor that crazy not to but some people might not. Right. Right. They so they would just have a very they could they could have the roof

13:39so that there wouldn't be much space between the the ceiling of the of the garage and the peak of the roof as well. And I look at trusses is a great example

13:50to you know people always throw boards between the trusses and use it for general storage. If they're doing that is that considered square footage for storage? No. I'm just Right.

13:59Right but technically yeah you Would that be counted if they put you know five to 10 sheets of 3/4 plywood up there to to store whatever Christmas decorations? Right. It's usable.

14:12Well usable versus being able to walk up there I think is is key. Well, you make a you can make some trusses pretty tall where you could put plywood between the box. So there's always going to

14:23[clears throat] be something. With the pitch of the roof. I think if you did ground floor and then you know, you I think anybody the building department we can put some conditions about second

14:34floor. You have to disclose if you're going to utilize it for for general storage and you're you're intent basically. But I think that that second sentence says it particularly if you're going

14:45above if if you're if you're if you're asking for the max of 1,200 square feet for your garage, the actual garage if you're going to use that space up above it's going right now it's going to

14:57count towards the total square footage and they would have to come in at that point to get So if so if they're going to try to apply for like a bedroom like you know

15:07like a master suite or something like that or or even storage. Storage yeah, whatever. [clears throat] But I would think the building inspector would catch all that

15:18when he approves all the building permits anyways and just filter through got to have the language to back it up though too. That's yeah. Right. That's all. So we're going to leave the second

15:27sentence in. Yes? Yep. Okay. Um all right, so so what I will what I will do is um I'll I'll rework this again in terms of formatting and all that and then

15:40um the next time we get together we'll we'll give it one more and then if you know if anybody has any sudden thoughts or brainstorms between now and then

15:49And that's going to go to planning. Once we approve it goes to planning then we go to town meeting. town meeting in the spring Planning has to say okay, so they may Say no.

15:58do something else with it and or It's okay. Yeah. Would they would they have issues with lot sizes or anything like that cuz if you're doing you know size as of right then

16:11I'm not sure what your question is there. Well just where you know like have versus five you know I don't I don't think they will. I don't think they will.

16:19I'm trying to just make sure it doesn't come back at us or any Well, they and they may. They may have questions why did you do that or little bit or whatever.

16:28You know, what are you expecting us to do when we get an application for this? Cuz you're trying to work with people. To to her point though, like if we've

16:35given a variance to build a house in a non-conforming lot and someone applies, they're going to have to come back in front of us again Right. for to do a garage in a non-conforming you know?

16:45Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. We're good? I think we're good. Okay. Thank you. Okay, next up tonight we have two cases [clears throat] that have a similar theme running through them

17:10and they are both regarding modifications to plans of record that this board has already voted on. These types of cases put an unnecessary burden on the board and all involved,

17:22time, effort, money. So it's disappointing they have to revisit these cases for changes um after we've already issued our permits. So we'll begin We're going to handle

17:36each one on their own merits. Uh Mr. Poyer will read into the record the first case, please. Case one dash 20 dash zero dash R, petitioner [applicant] [applicant].

17:53A petition was filed requesting a modification to plans which were previously approved on August 23rd, 2022 to construct a 30 by 40 square foot house. Modification demonstrates a significant

18:08change in elevation and exterior appearance from the plan of record. Thank you Mr. Poyer. I was going to invite you up but you already jumped up there. Um I'm going to give a little history

18:21and background. Not everybody was here um when this all came about. This case was opened on February 24th, 2022. Um, and we found at that time that it wasn't

18:38it hadn't gone through the Conservation Commission, which it needed to do first before coming to us. So we continued the case to March 22nd. March 22nd, the case was further

18:50continued to May 3rd. And on this date, there was another continuance to reschedule to June 21st. This is all in 2022. Before that meeting occurred, a new

19:04application was submitted on May 16th, 2022, and the original one was withdrawn. At the June meeting, only four ZBA members were present, which meant it had to be a unanimous

19:20vote of the of the board or it would not pass. The petitioner and his attorney decided it would be best to have a continuance with the whole board, so the date of July 12th was chosen.

19:34At the July 12th meeting, the board decided it needed a site visit and did so on July 30th at 9:00 a.m. in the morning. And we would reconvene our next meeting August 23rd, 2022. Um,

19:51some of us were were on that and we went over everything and uh we really checked it out, made some recommendations. On August 23rd, the attorney and plaintiff presented

20:05updated plans. The board addressed concerns and adjustments were made to those plans. A special permit was granted based on the corrected plans of record, which included a pitched roof.

20:21We are here tonight because we were informed by the building commissioner, Mr. Rod Palmer. He he was there doing some type of follow-up inspection. He saw that the

20:32roof was already changed to a flat roof without any notification to him, the planning board, or this board, which is in violation of the special permit that we granted.

20:47And with that, uh [applicant], um can you please explain what happened? I changed from a pitch roof to the flat roof for two reasons, and I thought I had discussed it with the building

21:01inspector back when I was doing it. He informed me that I did not. He also informed me that I was supposed to let you people know because it wasn't the plan of record. I was under the

21:11impression that the zoning was concerned with the footprint and the foundation was pinned and that was approved, so I didn't change anything other than the roof line. And

21:21the two reasons were I was going to I was losing a lot of usable floor space on the third floor because of the pitch roof. So I wanted to go with a flat roof, and

21:32the flat roof was a lot cheaper, less materials, less labor. So I absolutely dropped the ball on not letting you people know. I thought I just had to discuss it with the the

21:44building inspector. She can ask her two questions? Yes. Um the special permit was issued. What was the condition? What was the reason or the conditions associated with it? So uh

22:00we we put a height requirement on it and with the footprint and um he had the plans. And so those were the plans of record. That is what it was supposed to look like uh from the outside.

22:15So with the special permit, no matter what you apply, your plan of record is the documents that they are approving for for special permit. As you had indicated, any modification or

22:29change to that has to be presented to the building, private, planning, and zoning moving forward. You're not at liberty just to do it. And even even even a I would be shocked if the

22:42building commissioner or the inspector turned around and said just proceed because he would want updated drawings as well, no doubt in my mind. Did you submit any updated drawings?

22:52Yes, I submitted the engineer drawings. After the inspection or before? I thought I did it before. He claims I did not, so apparently I did not. Okay. So I I did speak with him today

23:08um just to get a little more background on on his end. Um and as I said, he he came over to do some type of inspection or sign off on something, I believe. I forget exactly the reason.

23:21Okay. Um maybe just wanted to finish off and make sure everything was as it should have been. And uh he mentioned you know you showed him the plans and then the plans of record

23:36evidently he had already seen them and saw that it was the pitched roof that Um and each member here has a copy of that. Um so we noticed it was the flat roof. And that's when he um

23:50decided that he needed to notify us and let us know that the plans of record were changed. Um this is not the first time it within the past two or three months that that we've had

24:04plans that were changed and we were notified after the fact. So um in the last one um we are allowed by section 290-5-1.3 the penalty for any provision of this

24:25bylaw or any conditions under which a permit is issued or any decision rendered by the Board of Appeals shall be up to $300 for each offense. Each day each violation continues shall

24:40constitute a separate offense. So in a previous case we find that we didn't find them. It's a penalty. Um and I believe that was for $1,000. Can I ask a follow-up question? Yep.

24:56Where as you were building your house and your plans of record had changed, did you have periodic inspections of the rough frame and all of that or before you got substantial completion?

25:07So he hasn't done the It's tight to the weather right now, but he hasn't done the the inspection yet for the cuz I was under the impression that he didn't come to do the rough frame rough

25:16frame until the um plumbing was done, electrical, and HVAC. He wanted to have all that completed and and all the the electrician um electrical sign off on theirs before he

25:29would come do the uh the rough frame inspection. When did you start When did When did the work start? The actual construction of the new building? Mm a year and a half ago probably. And when

25:44So there was a So there was a considerable amount of time between when you were issued the permit and before you actually got started, yes? Cuz of lack of financing. Oh okay.

25:58And then and then I got a tight to the weather. I acquired more financing and that's when this all came about again. Cuz I'm just looking. So we started this

26:05in 2022 and you were 4 years later. So I just good for yeah. more out of curiosity than anything else just kind of wondering um but So so normally any type of special permit or zoning approval

26:20there has to be constant you know progress of the project. So you can start it and as long as you slowly but it can take you 5 years you know normally as long as the progress continues.

26:32Did you stop the house immediately after you got the permit? And then you stopped? Is it Is it Uh, I wanted to get it tight to the weather just so it the there wouldn't be any damage from

26:42the weather and then Was that in 22 though? Was that in 23? Was that in 24? You said 18 mo- You said about 18 months ago you started? Probably yes. So that would bring us to

26:53He would have exceeded the time to stop it well. I mean I looked at the provisions but Well yeah cuz that's one of the things that I to it. I don't know how long how long do

27:04you have between the time you get the permit before you actually start the work? Cuz there was a Because we did the foundation quite soon and then I was trying to acquire a builder

27:18Yeah the first plans weren't approved until weren't issued till 6/24/24. So that was two years later? That's yeah. So Yeah so that was for the construction

27:32upwards but but he he did the foundation so that helped some progress was being done. What I'm confused about is the second set of drawings that show the progress are dated 6/24/24 as well. So

27:53your designer was [designer]? Yeah. [unclear] The architects? 6/24 Yeah got the same date on mine. And then the second drawing dates dates two was 6/3/25. It was a year later.

28:25So if you look at the bottom of the drawing Oh I see. Okay. Yeah so 6/24/24 was the original. Then a year later it went to almost the day 125 you did the modification with the roof

28:40and that's when it did not get submitted to the building part which you got you may have done that. And they would have had the plans you know I don't know whether they came in and

28:57just asked the question or but there weren't any plans submitted at that time. Which With the modification. With with the the modification. Right. It put us in a hard spot we know that right?

29:12I apologize like I said I I wasn't I didn't realize the zoning I thought they were just concerned with my footprint. So I I has to do with the plan of and that's the reason why we just made a

29:25change with my plans to be stamped with 100 conditions because modifications can happen and if those records aren't recorded we're finding out after the fact. And and the the

29:38the very first condition under the conditions that we listed basically says that this is based upon the plans of record. And and basically that you if you if you want to do anything different

29:53you got to refile you got to come back and you got you got to do the process again. And I I agree with my colleague here. You should have known but frankly you know that that's I have

30:11I understand and the other thing I would say is you know Mr. Ponder is a very thorough person. He he my working with him it's like he's very much sticking to the letter of of the of

30:27the bylaws and his responsibilities as the enforcement officer there so Have the other conditions so far even though it's in the rough stages, all still been adhered to, or is there other

30:40changes in the conditions? The the only change. No, the only change was the roof line. And so that's not bigger than 35 ft It's 30 ft. 30 ft. So which we don't have anything in the plan that

30:55said this is ft, right. 30 ft. Yeah, just have no measurements I believe it said something along the lines of the contractor, depending on situation, would give that final number.

31:12Who is the builder? I'm building it myself. Oh, you are. Oh, so So do you have a construction supervisor license? My brother does. He's helping me. Got you.

31:27So I've I've got the original plans from when we first went went through all of this, so you know, I I really can't run around and show all of them, but it did have the the roof line.

32:03And then it got changed to the Less than 30 ft. the regular 8 ft. Say that again. I can tell just by this elevation on the new plans, if these are 8 ft sections, he's got

32:19three there, so a little over 20, and then he's got a 2 ft Would you protect the siding with this? Cedar shingles. And so is it planking what it looks like?

32:30On the front Excuse me, the front is planking and the three side walls are cedar. So what are you saying something in particular? I'm just saying that the new it looks

32:41like it's maybe 30 and a little over 30 feet high. 30 I measured the other day. It's 30 feet. Yeah. Yep. 24 I mean the original plans may have been higher, but what are you suggesting?

33:07Uh it was up to 35 and we put a limit on 35. Yeah, that's what I was reading. Cuz there was a small house that was there. Right. And uh we also had to give the okay for that

33:23the addition the smaller one that that leads into it. So yeah. one or one or two nonconforming to make another nonconforming. Right. It was like less detrimental or something. Okay. So any

33:47other thoughts or questions from board members? So all your siding's up and the roof and all that everything's standing. You're just waiting to do the insides. Correct.

34:08It's all done. I drove over there today. Okay. And it wasn't exterior was done. The exterior's all done. expecting to see a flat roof when I cuz I thought you know tonight we were going to

34:20make a decision, but it was already done. already done. Yeah. So that's my concern um and the reason I went over the penalty provision Yep. as we did with the last one Yeah, exactly.

34:42Did all these things and and didn't didn't follow. Is is there anybody out there that would like to have any comments or No? Okay. [clears throat] All right. Um So motion to close the hearing.

35:08So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, findings. Um So I guess my question here are we are we ready to move to a finding later this evening? And the only reason why I'm saying that

35:46is I mean I So this is hitting me a little bit more than it probably might might only because we just got done dealing with something like this. Right. Right.

35:58And so perhaps I'm being a little bit more sensitive than I might might otherwise be. Um I firmly believe that a penalty should be levied. I don't know. I'm sure you have exactly

36:15what that should be. So I mean I don't know if we want to make a decision about that tonight, but perhaps um think about it and do it at our next meeting. I don't So if if I may. So

36:35has a non has a stop work order been issued? Nothing I'm aware of. Because he's got everything I know, but mean until the special permit's been ratified, I mean technically is he's outside the

36:51He's the scope of what right? Uh-huh. And the reason why I'm asking that is because sometimes they'll issue a stop order until we in planning and everybody else is, you

37:01know, makes their vision tight. I don't I don't feel comfortable making it tonight. I I would like to look further into the exact timeline I mean I'm the violation is.

37:19I'd like to have a conversation with Rob too about like What And truthfully, like I said, even though I'm a little bit aggravated right now, I want to be fair. Me too.

37:28I don't I don't I don't want the penalty to be onerous, but I do believe that you know the Given the situation. our given our responsibility some type of action in this regard is required and

37:41just thinking, you know, and it's kind of what we did with the last one. We had a discussion about it and then we sort of said well let's kind of sit on

37:49it and when we come back together we can think about come to a conclusion of what a reasonable penalty should be for the infraction. So. And then allow things to proceed from there. Yeah.

38:01So should we invite Rob to to be have a conversation with Rob Yeah. Is that like to talk with him Um want to reach out to him? it would be easier if he was here. Right. Right.

38:13But he had a commitment tonight. So. So let me So what's They're in front of us because there's a deviation of Right. of the permit. Right. The plans of record have been changed.

38:26is he reapplying for a modified deviation of record now and then upon our review and discussion and maybe approval we may implement a penalty because of the deviation that

38:43occurred without the proper steps. Is that fair to say? Yeah. That's what you're looking to do. So, don't we I think we need another another meeting just because I I need

38:57I need [applicant] to tell me the modification that he's doing is within the the set setback and bylaws, whatever that he he's meeting for the for the permanent requirements. And then

39:08then we can talk about like, you know, how we got to get there. So so you're There's two things we have to do. We have to issue him a new permit for the actual plans. Right.

39:20Correct that first. For the And then whatever sanction we're talking about. call it a minor deviation. It's a little bit more than that, but I mean it's Yeah. Yeah.

39:33If you would have changed one dormer to a a little flatter area, that would have been a different discussion. But you changed you know, and I'm looking at it I have a couple of questions. Your

39:44you you had made a comment that your usable space on the second or third floor was was not as usable as the design that you did. But you have full dormers

39:54on each side of your original design. So it's not like you didn't lose that much. Yeah, technically it wasn't think architecturally you changed it for cost reasons more

40:06than the usable space. That's just my opinion. But [clears throat] Anyway, that's the only reason I just that's why I wouldn't table it until the next meeting. So I would make a motion that we

40:24It's the correct term I'm using. We open the hearing at our next meeting after Then we What's the word I'm Motion for a continuance. a continuance. Thank you.

40:36There you go. Motion for a continuance and then we can request that [applicant] be at that next meeting so that we can Yes. Yeah. And have questions for him and and

40:50then way we can determine up there course of action. So as long as we're thinking along those lines, did you say that we have a new case that's in the We have one case that's in the query

41:08so far. So it would be good to get this one in on that same date. Well I how long is the notice out for that that new case? I guess that's the question. You said two weeks. Two weeks might not

41:22be enough for the 21 days Yeah, right for the so so if if you look at your calendars, the first week of December second week at the latest so we can get this taken care of. So if

41:44December 3rd looks okay with me Mhm. December try the second December second is okay. The first, second, and third of December are all fine with me. I mean I you have another member. I'm not

42:05available those three days so I'm not available those days either. No, we can't we we wouldn't be able to Right. We want to have enough to have a full board.

42:14Steve can't now jump in in the middle of this so um So how about December 9th I think Let's see what the 9th is. Yep. I'm I'm good December 9th, December 10th.

42:34I'm not available either one of those days. Yep. 9 10 8 December any of those days Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of that week. going to veto on that Thursday because the Patriots are playing.

42:44Are they? Yeah. So we'll do Wednesday. Yeah, Wednesday's great. Wednesday December 9th with that. [laughter] Thank you for the reminder. Wednesday. December 9th 6:30.

43:03Can I ask you a question? Do we do we authorize the continuance or does the applicant request a continuance? I believe we authorized it. They can also request it too. So because it if if you

43:21Cuz both sides want on my check offs if there was continuance requested by plaintiff and sometimes it fits yeah That date which that date so the 9th is okay with you I would

43:33you didn't you didn't indicate that that was not an issue for you. Would be nice if you could be here too. [laughter] We need to hear of December. Okay, that's a Wednesday night.

43:44We need to check with Rod and make sure he's available or when he can be here Yeah, I um I'll see Rod either tomorrow or Monday. Um If for some reason that change that

43:55changes and Rod's not available then we can always We'll find somebody to shift it and and and get in touch with all parties. Yep. Yeah, but I I I he had a special thing going on

44:06tonight with his grandkids. That's a Son or daughter. Um He deserves it. Yeah. So his family came first. Um Okay, so made a motion for a continuance to Wednesday, December 9th 6:30 2026 Yep.

44:35Um so before we step to there Yeah. Um are you currently doing work on it right now? I am not. Right now I'm getting prices from electricians and AC people, but if you

44:50want me to hold off till December 9th I won't do any work. So so one of the conditions that's as part of the continuance would be no further work can be completed until that meeting.

45:01I am fine with that. Okay. You can price out things. Yeah. Yeah. You'd have people in and out and Abandon it. You can do what you need to do. Just don't have them start. That's all.

45:11Okay. Are you living in that front house? Yes. Okay. Which looked pretty good, too. Thank you. I thought that came out really nice. Well, considering considering what was there before Yes.

45:25that considerable improvement. I mean, I haven't seen it, but I keep Yeah. No, it's it's a big improvement. Thank you. So Okay. So we have a motion from Mr. Poirier for continuance to

45:39December 9th, 2026 at 6:30 with the condition also that no further work be completed until that time. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. You're all set.

45:58Thank you for your time. Okay. Okay. For the second case of the night. Ready? Mr. Poirier. Case 117-11-KR, petitioner [applicant]. Discussion and vote on request to place

46:38a roof over the side entrance to an ADU, which was approved on July 24th, 2026. The addition of the roof does not increase setbacks. Okay. Would you like to move up to the table, please?

46:53[clears throat] So So you're getting settled in, I'll go over the history of the case. You still got that big wire in your backyard? Unfortunately. They told us that uh

47:07He jumped the gun on that. Okay. So this case was opened on June 25th, 2026. [applicant] wanted to build an ADU at Bixby Drive, Carver, but needed a variance for the setback on the east

47:23side of the proposed ADU. The side setback per law is 30 ft. He needed um the variance to reduce the east side setback to 21 .6 ft. We scheduled a site visit for July 18th,

47:422026 at 9 a.m. At the site visit, board members were were concerned about a very low Eversource guide stabilization wire that went right across the property on their easement,

47:57um but was really pretty close to the house. And also the placement of a fence by Eversource, which was on their neighbor's property, which [applicant] was being taxed for when it technically

48:10isn't his property. So uh the board found in favor of Mr. [applicant] for relief of 9 ft on the east side of the property with the following conditions. One, subject to revised plans of record

48:27dated July 9th, 2026 by Madigan Land Surveying LLC. Two, no building permit issued until written communication is received from Eversource regarding the easement, the fence, the low cable.

48:45And three, the board suggested that the petitioner discuss with the town assessor concerning the improperly placed fence and proper tax status. So we're here tonight because you'd like

48:59to make an adjustment to the plans of records. Um, but before I open that up, um, have you gotten anything in writing from Eversource? They had a work order

49:13placed. We had a site visit with the engineers came out. They looked it over, uh, said we can't do anything and closed the work order. And then any guying in the

49:23easement is well within their right. Okay. How about the fence? Fence is mine. Fence is actually Fence is gone. Okay. Do you have the notice from Eversource?

49:34I I actually That was what I submitted when I did the building plan. It was the work order and then I Later on after we had received that or we submitted that, I got an email back

49:43from uh, their right of way personnel saying that any guying within their, you know, easement was well within their right and they weren't going to do anything about it. So, Unbelievable.

49:54not submit that cuz we got it afterwards. I finally received it afterwards we submitted this. All right. So, I do have These are I did submit this when we did the

50:06building permit. These are copies of the emails from my son, um, and Eversource. Okay. Um, one one said that the work order was opened and then he got one just pretty

50:19abrupt that said the work order has been closed. So, the GE turnover thing is that's that's my son's Okay. Okay. We want to make sure those things were taken care of. Yes.

50:32Um, cuz we didn't receive any notice on that ourselves. Yeah, I did submit it to um, Joe and I submitted a copy to to Mr. Palmer. Okay. Right. Cuz they they didn't give any in in our

50:44packet tonight. take that one back though because that's those are mine only copies. Okay. But Joe does have a copy of all of them. Of all three of them? Okay. As long as she has a copy of all

50:53three, then we'll consider that okay. Okay. Now, um, what Um, Now we're talking about We're talking about a little a little The rest of the issue. Constantly looking over the plans.

51:10You're building something and you want to make sure that you've covered everything while you're building and not find something after you've all done saying gee I wish I did this.

51:21So my wife in her infinite wisdom did a great job looking and we looked at the stairway going up to our front door and it's just a stairway to a little 4 x 6 platform into the front door. And

51:34she said [applicant] you know what if it's raining or snowing and we're standing there at the door trying to get in and and it's the weather's coming down and we got

51:42groceries coming up and you know we should have like a An overhang An overhang or a roof or something over it and I'd like to make that deck a little bit larger. Not width wise, long wise

51:56So it's going to be longer but it's not to the east. So we're proposing the deck right now is 4 ft 6 in by 4 ft 3 in. We're proposing to make it the 4 ft 3 in go out east

52:14and make it 10 ft long so that we can put groceries and have a roof over it right now? It doesn't have a roof over it right now. And then to have a roof over that

52:23so that when we go in the door and it's raining or snowing or whatever we're not going right into our front door and and I do have my engineer working on the

52:33plans but unfortunately he's back at high heaven so I we did these these are original plans that we had and my wife just did a little rendering on here of what we're looking at. This

52:47is the stairway going up and this is the porch you know they're going out and they start a roof over it here. Again it's not any closer east. It's still 4 ft 3 in but it's just longer to

53:02Is that running along the side of the Correct. Along the side the And that I I forgot and and the entrance is on the side. Yes, it is. So it's it's basically what was already

53:13approved. It's just that the the deck and the his here the door is is longer. Right. And then even the width yeah is longer towards the back of the property Just the width just the the cover.

53:25Protect us. You know when you go in and you go It it was a good find by her actually you know what is this So I could I ask you a question? Okay. Um you can go back so you end the microphone.

53:37The reason we here is to make a They they're changing the plan so right. So none of the work's been started or even Correctly it's a little bit different than what we just exactly or

53:52it's the right way to do it. So we're just meant to want to make sure we follow the right process. We I currently going to submit plans to re-drive for permits but they need to get us a

54:05special modification a special permit for We we just need to okay the change the plans of record. Okay. Which we don't have changes to those plans yet. It's still being worked on by

54:19the engineer. And that's that's where I was kind of going with that. I don't mind approving I'd love to see the plans that I'm approving with that. Right. Well well that's it. That's I I think

54:31I think we can agree that it does make sense to put Absolutely. a covering [clears throat] Yep. um in the extension Makes sense. I would probably do it myself Yep.

54:44in my house if that that was the case with with the permit. Um but what what we need to give the the okay on our end would be the drawings with the measurements how far you know

54:57how big is that going to be? I mean you could tell me whatever you think it's going to be but we need to know what size Mhm. how wide is it? Railings Rail Yep. Yeah.

55:10And I think again we were on the docket because we weren't sure what the process was to make sure we didn't miss a step. Okay, previous Um did you get directed back to us again by the

55:19I think you got a call. We um we talked to my builder talked to the building inspector when he came out to inspect the the foundation and said these folks would like to put a roof

55:30over the side entrance and Mr. Palmer said well you should you know so I we actually had a a rendering that we did on AI and we gave it to Mr. Palmer. Yep. Yeah. We got that.

55:41And he said that you know you need to you probably should go before the zoning board. He said it doesn't seem like it's a big problem but I'm not going to tell

55:49you to do it. I'm want you to go before them. So I got a call from Jill saying you know come up and do the application. So we did the application and and and here we are.

56:00And he saved you the aggravation of being like the last case here really. He did you a big favor Yeah. Well I'm I'm He did. We've communicated well with him from day one. Good. Yeah.

56:15know when I and the Listen I'm I'm I'm I work in the town too. I'm I'm I'm I don't want to be doing things shady and underhanded and anything like that. I've been very very

56:25open with him and he's been very open with us. And so it it it's it's it's a good working relationship so far. So So I I I believe if you get those measurements and and the

56:41diagram from your builder you know versus the the plan that last plan. Yeah. The one that we have you know we can see why cuz it was drawn on it needs to be So that would be the next steps is

56:54engineer submits plans to someone at town or the zoning board. Yeah. then we we can give them back to you and then it's you know if the approval is granted Yeah or if you could do a

57:11or two so we can keep one in the file, you've got one, that type of thing. So did when Jill told you to come speak to us, did she say you'd be applying for a minor modification to your special

57:22permit? Yes. Okay. Okay, I'm I'm here um I I submitted the application last week, so I really didn't think I would be on this month. And I didn't hear from anybody. Yeah, you were lucky.

57:37I didn't hear from anybody, and just by chance yesterday when I was at work I I pulled up the the zoning board and I saw my name on there and holy smoke, I didn't even [laughter]

57:49But otherwise I would have been a no show if I hadn't done that. Then we would have been crossing you off. [laughter] On the on the plans that you're going to submit, just make sure

58:01they show not only your roof line, your deck extension, your width, your railings, but just a measurement of setback distance from, you know, where the plane

58:12of that deck is going to be, just so that I So it doesn't affect what we've already And we have record of what we've already approved that's the reason why it didn't go out

58:21any farther. I told them it will go down this way and for the recording purposes, I just make sure that that measurement's on there, please. Yeah, so that was a smart move not to go forward

58:35and use save yourself some money. And you want those to have a wet stamp as well, right? Yeah, they'll be submitted Okay, perfect. So the drawings will have like the wet

58:44stamp so that everybody that it will get signed off. I get the drawings, I give them to Mr. Palmer? Um will we first here. Well, or you can just bring them into us cuz cuz you first cuz we'll

58:55we'll need to see them to give them back to you to say You'll be on the agenda for the 9th as well Yeah, I'm going to say December 9th if you're free. Okay.

59:06Okay. You can get your drawings by then. Yeah, do you think that you think you'll have the drawings by December 9th? I'm sure I'll I'll I'll call Rod's my my engineer and uh Okay.

59:20So put some pressure on him. Is your builder just tell him we need to see them on the 9th. Is your builder continuing with what you have or does Yes. Does that stair landing and roof line

59:31impact that? No, that comes into later, much later. All right, perfect. Yeah. So you started? Uh we have the wood delivered. We have a foundation and um the spit

59:41back filled and approved for the uh so they're going to pour the floor I think Monday and then start the deck and Saving a time. Yep, you have time. Thank God. [laughter] All right.

59:55Do we have to vote on a Yep, on a continuance. Okay, so our findings tonight is that we need to have an updated plan with measurements on the east side. Um and they'll be presented at our next

60:12meeting on December 9th. And then at that time hopefully we can give an okay. So a motion I make a motion to continue this case to our next meeting on December 9th. Second. And all in favor?

60:36Aye. Aye. Okay, thank you very much. to see you in a month. Thank you. Uh a little bit less. No, no, it's a little bit more. Yeah, today's only the 5th. Everybody thank you. Yes, thank you.

60:50Thank you. Thank you for doing things right. I know [laughter] it's right. Okay. Um correspondence. Um the only thing I have for you is that uh an application has been submitted

61:11for a second ZBA alternate. Really? Yes, which is a rarity. We've never had. going to say. Well, K not getting off that easy. K would get first option on that. [laughter]

61:29Um this is the first time that we've ever had enough people interested um which takes the burden off of I have to be there no matter what. Right. Um so um I can't

61:43state anything about who it is or when it's going to happen, but that is one of the correspondence that has come in. Okay. Right. Great. So um anything anybody else wants to bring up?

61:57I would I would like to compliment you, Mr. Barrington, on your efficiency this evening as stepping in for our for the for the chair. You know, and we won't say for record

62:07that you did a phenomenal job that you [laughter] replaced him. Uh thank you very much. I have one question if I may, and maybe it's not appropriate, but I could go back to the garage. Sure.

62:20Is it Is it okay to do that? Yeah. So I just wanted to clarify at the end of our discussion about that, you said you're leaving in the second sentence, which means we're going to include

62:31the second floor. I thought we weren't going to include it. they're going to include it to get um a you would have to come for a variance if you were going to go exceed 1,200.

62:44Including the second floor. right now it's 700 I'm using 700 or 800, whatever it is, that includes the second floor. So you're basically building a 24 by 24 with whatever storage. So now we're

62:55giving the liberty of larger. If they want to utilize that upstairs storage, to Ms. Poria's point, they come for a variance and ask for that. Which is a no brainer.

63:06it would be basically changing how we have ruled so far with counting Well, we've been counting the square footage on the second floor right along. floor, right. Yeah. Yep, right along.

63:17And so we're going to continue And we're going to we're going to we're [clears throat] going to continue to yeah, usable usable square footage footage is counted. Yeah.

63:24I was trying to nix it, but I understood his point. His point. Mr. Pory. I thought he wanted to get rid of it. No, I I wasn't going to say you were sure. Didn't you want to get rid of it?

63:35I I that's the way I was thinking too, but then the com See, this is where like I said, when you start having the conversation because sometimes you you can get so focused on what

63:47your thought process is that you don't see other Yes, views. sides of the of the issue. So Right. um I I'm I'm I'm fine with that. I mean, in this way people will be able to actually build a

64:011,200 square foot garage without having to come in front of us because almost every garage has been Right. at least 1,000 ft. Right. Which I said to you it's like This is

64:12still not a whole Right. Yep. You're barely fitting your cars in and you really don't have room for anything else. So for anybody who doesn't have a shed or anything

64:21So how does it work if if I came in in a month to put a garage in and I want a variance, how would that work as a board member? You guys could not excuse yourselves because of No. No.

64:34We would just vote you down. [laughter] Fair enough. No, we if It's It has been done. Did you have to come? No. No? Okay. Well, it has been done before. I believe

64:47it's just, you know, there are you have to go follow the procedures and there is no prejudice and the same rules apply to what we do with everybody else that we would apply to you as well. So

65:00Fair enough. Good. I make motion to adjourn. A motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Good night, Carver. Good night.