2026-09-29 - Council Committee of the Whole

00:10Yes.

00:20Oh my god.

00:39Charles,

00:53[laughter]

01:07sorry.

01:27Good evening.

01:30>> Welcome to the Dover City Council

01:33Committee of the Whole. At this time, we

01:36call the meeting to order.

01:39I will now call to order the city

01:41council committee of the whole meeting

01:43of Tuesday, September 29th, 2026.

01:48I would like to remind the public that

01:50the public comments are welcome on any

01:53item and will be permitted at the

01:56appropriate time.

01:59You have before you this evening's

02:01agenda and I would entertain a motion

02:04for its adoption.

02:05>> Motion to approve the agenda.

02:07>> Rosha second. It's

02:08>> been moved by council manard. Second by

02:11councilman Rosha to approve the agenda.

02:13Are there amendments or discussion?

02:17>> Seeing none. All in favor? I

02:21>> I.

02:22>> Any opposed?

02:25The motion is adopted.

02:28First on the agenda, we have a

02:30presentation

02:32from booted and suited with um Mr. Bobby

02:36Wilson.

02:38While he comes forward and just

02:40introduce yourself for the record, when

02:43you're ready, please. I'm going to first

02:45uh read a statement from uh Council

02:49President Fred Neil into the record who

02:52is u not feeling well today and and he's

02:57in our uh thoughts and prayers and we

02:59look forward to his return.

03:02Uh he said, "My uh foggy throat has

03:05become a full-blown cold." Um and uh

03:09he's concerned that he's contagious. And

03:12he apologized to Mr. Wilson because he

03:15won't be there. And he said, "I would

03:17like Councilman Anderson to run the

03:19meeting and and the statement below, my

03:22signature to read in the record. Mr.

03:24Wilson's program could be our secret

03:28weapon."

03:30And Mr. Wilson has uh provided us a wide

03:35variety of services and education

03:37programs which are worthy but are not in

03:41our charter to provide. But there is a

03:44singular reason for my sponsoring this

03:46program is the value of one aspect vital

03:50to our economic development. A training

03:53program for street smart people to help

03:56clean up the mess that pervades downtown

03:59and other places.

04:01We have heard from a lady last night

04:03afraid of going through her fence to her

04:05home. We have heard that a lot. Eyes on

04:11uniform.

04:12A yearong program with jobs available

04:16when training is over and a new class of

04:18trainees are on the streets. There is no

04:22question in my mind that Mr. Wilson

04:24loves this city. He did a gratus cleanup

04:27demonstrating that he can deliver what

04:30he has promised.

04:32I would think that our public works

04:34employees are pushed to the limit. It's

04:36time to get our streets back and Mr.

04:39Wilson's program can help us do that and

04:41enhance the vision and add safety. If it

04:46works in Wilmington, it can work here.

04:50Please note alongside my signature I

04:53have written pending available funding.

04:56I would put this program

04:58in the top of the list. Fred Neil,

05:01president, do city council

05:04and let the record so reflect.

05:08Uh Mr. Wilson with that introduction.

05:10>> Oh, good evening.

05:12>> Please go ahead.

05:13>> Good evening. My name is Bobby Wilson,

05:1532 West Lockman Street, street 101B.

05:19D, excuse me. Um, bear with me because

05:22my spokesperson, she called out sick

05:25today and um, I'm here with you. I'm a

05:29promoter by trade. So, I'm in the

05:32background. I'm not on stage. So, with

05:35that being said, I come to you tonight

05:37to speak to you about Booted and Suited

05:40and and thank you, council, for inviting

05:44me uh, back. Uh this is my I guess my

05:47third time here uh speaking on the same

05:50behalf and since then um Buddha has

05:55moved forward and some of the activities

05:58that we had planned and and the

06:00activities that we had planned is to

06:02have the facilities

06:04to run a program which we have on

06:07Lockman Street which is the office where

06:11the program would be ran from far as the

06:15the classroom setting. Uh the students

06:18would come into the program on Lockerman

06:20Street and have a eight-week uh class

06:23setting and the first three week would

06:26be soft skills where would they would

06:28learn how to be on the job on time,

06:31respect your co-worker, respect the job

06:34site, and respect your employer.

06:38Um with that being said, then after the

06:41soft skills, we go into the hard skills.

06:44We have two location

06:46um we uh that we doing on hard skill on

06:49south of Little Creek Road is where the

06:52garage um we're training auto mechanics.

06:55We're training in construction uh from

06:57that facility. We're partnering up with

07:00the brick layers union. They're going to

07:03be part of the training process as well.

07:06And then then we also plan to partnering

07:09with the um um local 199. It's a union

07:14outfit out of Newark, Delaware.

07:18With those two units coming down to

07:21partner with us and there's no other

07:25location in Kent County that's doing

07:27outside training but Polytech in this

07:30area. I was working with Reverend Keley,

07:35Central Baptist Church in the workforce

07:37development. That's how I got involved

07:39in this in Wilmington.

07:42uh Wington as you know more resources

07:46across the bridge in Newcastle County

07:48and I found out the the reason why

07:51because of innovation there's a lot of

07:54innovation minds across the bridge that

07:57don't that's not scared to take risks

08:02and we have to take risks and I have

08:05taken a risk by bringing the program to

08:08fruition with my own capital with a

08:12office downtown

08:15that's $2,000 a month and a garage

08:19that's $2,500 a month. Paying this out

08:22of my pocket to train folks in this

08:25community because as Mr. Neil said, I

08:28love my community. I've been in business

08:30in this community since 1985 with

08:33Freshlook Barberhop and train many

08:35barbers in this community. So I have

08:38been involved in workforce development

08:40for some time now. And by going to

08:43Wilmington and working with Central

08:45Baptist Church and learning the ins and

08:49out of the workforce development dealing

08:51with DHSS.

08:53And as you know with the workforce

08:56return to workforce and the SNAP

08:58program, there has to be training with

09:01individuals to stay on SNAP. If not,

09:04they lose it. And we have no training in

09:07do besides Polytech.

09:10We have individuals that have been

09:12traveling from Kent and Sussex County to

09:16get to the program in Wilmington, taking

09:18two and three buses.

09:21And then in return, the people in

09:24Newcastle, we've been busing them down

09:27to Milford to build the new hospital. So

09:32we bypassing do individuals to go down

09:36to Milford to work and they taking the

09:39money back to Wilmington. I said

09:42something has to be done. We have to

09:44create something in do. So therefore

09:47that is how Buddha and Sudic came to

09:50provision. So moving forward

09:54um we need funding. I can't do this on

09:58my own. We need funding. If not, it's

10:01going to end. So, what happened in the

10:04meantime? I decided to move forward with

10:07one of the programs that we proposed to

10:10you last time. And that program was the

10:13farmer's market. We we orchestrated the

10:17farmers market out of our own pockets.

10:20Everyone that's involved with the

10:22farmers market, will you please stand?

10:25Anyone involved in farmers market on on

10:29the Saturday's farmers market? Where's

10:31Dawn?

10:34>> These are the volunteers and they've

10:36been volunteering for eight weeks with

10:38this farmers market and it has been

10:41successful. Um, thank everyone for

10:44coming out. Uh, we want to continue uh

10:47moving the for farmers market forward.

10:50Uh, have a bigger and better farmers

10:52market next year. So the farmers market

10:56came about on the green because the we

11:00did a survey and the people said they

11:04would not participate in the farmers

11:06market if it was on locker street

11:10because of the crime. They fear for

11:14their safety. That's why we calling it a

11:17greener, safer

11:19do. cleaner, greener, safer do to

11:22correct all this. So, moving forward,

11:26what we're creating here in Dober with

11:29this grant is a will be a program where

11:33it'll be eight hours a day downtown

11:36cleanup. Have anyone been to Wington and

11:40and witnessed a organization called

11:43Vision? vision downtown Wilmington.

11:46They're responsible for the cleanup of

11:49downtown Wilmington.

11:51I

11:53uh have on the line Mike Majetti. Uh he

11:57is the CEO for Downtown Vision. They are

12:01one of my mentor. They're my mentor

12:04organization for this. When I was in

12:06Wilmington, we supplied some of the

12:10employees from the program to Vision

12:14for employment.

12:16Um, it's a I think they run two shifts

12:19in Wilmington. We would be running one

12:21shift in Dober, one eight hour shift,

12:24um, five to six days a week.

12:28Um, and possibly moving into a evening

12:31shift once it continues to grow. But the

12:35point of the matter is we will be

12:38available to clean up. I have some

12:40slides in reference to all the activity

12:44that I have been filming downtown with

12:47the panhandling, the sleeping in the

12:50doorways. All these type of things been

12:52going on downtown that the average

12:55person that is not embedded downtown on

12:58a consistent basis would not see unless

13:01they, you know, really really engaged in

13:04downtown to see how how bad it is. I

13:07mean, it's it's truly bad. So, our thing

13:10is is that if we can clean up downtown,

13:13it would make a difference in the coming

13:16of our new construction.

13:18We have to put a foot forward where our

13:22cleanup crew will be able to engage in

13:25the with these individual walk

13:27individuals to the card um clean up the

13:31feces that's in these pockets of

13:33doorways because it's it's a health

13:37hazard downtown do as I speak.

13:41Um the individuals that would be working

13:44downtown they would be wearing uniforms.

13:46you'll be able to identify them and then

13:50we would have a phone number where you

13:52would call if your family member or

13:55yourself need to be escorted to and from

13:58wherever you want to shop if you feel

14:00unsafe. We would not be police officers.

14:03We would not get in the way of police

14:04officers, but we will be boots on the

14:07ground to have communication with the

14:10police officer. And I think for safety

14:12reasons

14:14with where we have now with the police

14:16officers going all different directions

14:19to have a group in town that not only

14:21cleaning downtown but also concerned

14:24about the safety of the individuals to

14:26communicate with the necessary

14:29um office that needs to come out and

14:31help the situation.

14:33So with that being said, we're asking

14:35for these funds. Um we have community

14:39service all uh individuals that's coming

14:41from parole and probation that's going

14:44to be working in the cleanup. Uh we have

14:48uh certified auto mechanics that's

14:50teaching the courses. We have union

14:53retired carpenters electrician that's

14:57going to be teaching the subject as

14:59well. And we have a partner. We have a

15:02partner called Tech Force. Uh Tech

15:05Force, organization from Wington that

15:10we're partnering with that's very

15:11successful. And on top of that, we have

15:15our own grant writers because we want

15:17this to be sustainable. We want to be

15:19able to write our own grants to keep the

15:22bar moving because I don't want to be a

15:25one and that's it. with these funds. Uh

15:29we have interested people that are

15:31interested in supporting

15:34uh with donations.

15:36We have a account that that's set up

15:39called uh beautifying

15:42uh do and we partner with a accounting

15:46firm called Mitten accounting firm in

15:49Dover. Very reputable accounting firm in

15:51Dover. Uh Mitten and Mitten. They will

15:56be over sight for their account for

15:59these funds. That law firm will

16:02communicate with the city of Dover,

16:06human relations, financial department,

16:08whoever you would have us to communicate

16:10with to keep track and keep um on board

16:15with those funds. So with that being

16:18said, you know, we're asking for these

16:20funds in order to make Dober a greener,

16:24safer, cleaner

16:26city. And um I have the experience, you

16:31know, I let my work speak for itself.

16:34We've been downtown power washing our on

16:38our own being funded by a few individual

16:42citizens that does not want to be named

16:45um in power washing downtown do and

16:48sweeping downtown do and trying to do

16:50what we can on the limited amount of

16:53funds that we presently have. So we

16:56would appreciate it if you will provide

16:59these funds for us and we will

17:01definitely definitely do our job. Thank

17:04you,

17:09>> Nick.

17:12>> Thank you very much. Um, Mr. Mayor,

17:15>> thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Wilson.

17:17>> Yes, sir.

17:18>> Good evening. How are you, sir?

17:19>> Wonderful. And then so,

17:21>> so can you tell me the folks that you

17:24are uh reaching out to for job training

17:28and and the the efforts that you're

17:31putting forward? Um the reason I'm

17:33asking that is because um you know Dr.

17:37Sler has chaired the blue ribbon

17:39commission that the mayor established.

17:42And I'm wondering if pos there's a

17:44possibility that if some of these folks

17:46are at risk that they may come under the

17:49umbrella uh that we could seek an

17:51ongoing grant for your program with

17:55those funds which should by all intent

17:57and purposes go back into the community

18:00uh to not only assist the people who

18:04have these addictions but also to

18:06establish programs so that they will not

18:08go back into addiction.

18:11My second question to you is and you can

18:13answer this in two parts and Dr. Sudler

18:16chime in whenever you feel so inclined

18:18to do. The downtown do partnership is

18:21part of a investment long-term

18:24investment uh for the revitalization of

18:27downtown do

18:29uh have have they been receptive to your

18:32program in any way? Have you have you

18:34broached the broached those folks? And

18:36and I need to know what their response

18:38was. So um can you tell me about your

18:42the folks that we are going to uh have

18:44in this program if they might uh benefit

18:48from applying for the opioid uh this is

18:51what round three Dr. Sudler?

18:55>> Yes

18:56>> that's coming on on board so that we

18:58might be able to get you more funding

19:00than what you are requesting through

19:02those uh opioid settlement funds. And

19:05then I'd like to know about the uh the

19:07downtown do partnership's response to

19:10your uh your presentations and request.

19:12>> Okay. Your first question, Mr. there.

19:14The the people that we would be um

19:18helping would be re-entry

19:21uh re-entry

19:23uh from prison

19:25uh SNAP program folks and uh folks uh

19:31with disability

19:33and um we have no re-entry program in

19:36do.

19:38I'm a part of the re-entry program in

19:40Washington DC of and Philadelphia

19:45with so many people that has been

19:48incarcerated that are going through hard

19:51times of getting a job because of their

19:54record. And I have a way with the

19:58employers where that they trust me with

20:01the folks that I have applied to their

20:05organization because I went through it.

20:08I mean I went through a whole year

20:10trying to beat down the door of employee

20:14employees I mean employers to hire the

20:18in exoffenders.

20:21I'm a former ex-offender.

20:23The pro the situation with me is I had a

20:27college education when I came out and

20:29plus I already had a business when I

20:31went in and had a business when I came

20:33out. Family support,

20:36community support. So I had the

20:38wraparound service. I had LD shanks. I

20:42had my family. So you know and LD Shanks

20:46the reason I say that because I know

20:47that most everyone know LD Shanks. So

20:51with that, a lot of people don't have

20:53the uh a lot of people they don't have

20:55the wraparound service. So we're going

20:58to help them with the wraparound

20:59service. We're going to help them with

21:01their food stamps, the Medicaid. Um we

21:05have now been approved with all the

21:09medical, you know, United Healthc Care.

21:12So we can we can maneuver the system

21:16right here in do Delaware to help these

21:18individual the returning citizens from

21:21prison the people on SNAP and then the

21:24the folks that's on opiate op opiate we

21:28have to work with them from a detox

21:31standpoint

21:33before they can enter a program of to go

21:37on someone's job site because the first

21:40thing on a job site like is safety

21:42especially when you talking about

21:43construction all the mechanics it's

21:45safety first so we have to protect I

21:49have to protect the employer's

21:50organization his business as well as

21:53protect the individuals that is applying

21:56for the job so when you look at some of

21:59the individuals on the street here

22:01they're not fit for a job right now

22:04they're fit for rehab detox and then you

22:09do have individuals that are ready for

22:12job training. So, we will we will tap

22:16into individuals where they at and help

22:20them where they at because we are we are

22:23are flexible, I should say. And in

22:27reference to downtown do partnership,

22:29yes, uh we have the support of downtown

22:32do partnership.

22:34That's how we was able to move forward

22:38with the farmers market. Um

22:42Todd and Diane, you know, they've been

22:45great. They've been great.

22:48>> So, have they offered you any financial

22:50help because uh this would be in their

22:53benefit and they also have deep pockets

22:55as well.

22:56>> Well,

22:58Mr. Mayor, as up to this point, no. is

23:03more you know moral report support and

23:07because of they working on the project

23:09that they're working on uh they tell me

23:12they tight for funds now what I just

23:15heard from Ken Anderson

23:18there are you know they're they're

23:20really pretty much um the funds you know

23:24they have they have more funds than what

23:28they were expecting to spend so

23:31hopefully they might have some money

23:33left over that they can help a program

23:35like this. I would hope so. So, I'm just

23:37going to leave it at that until the next

23:40meeting.

23:41>> My

23:44Why are you laughing? The same reason

23:46I'm laughing. Uh I would re I would also

23:50suggest to you and this uh this is a

23:52good source uh for you to uh to seek

23:56out. I think that once again those

23:58opioid monies would help you with people

24:00who need rehabilitation to put into your

24:03programs. But also be aware that the uh

24:06inter interfaith uh ministers

24:09association

24:11uh along with senator party are offering

24:13an expungement program and I apologize

24:16that I don't have the date in front of

24:18me but you know I think that if you were

24:20able to partner with them uh Mr. Wilson,

24:23uh, your program, uh, would be available

24:26to people who actually and genuinely

24:29could use the help.

24:30>> Thank you.

24:31>> October 21st,

24:33>> President,

24:35>> thank you.

24:40>> You had something you wanted to quickly

24:42announce. Uh, Councilman,

24:45>> if I may, um, uh, thank you. Uh, that

24:48expungement program is October 21st. Uh,

24:52it's going to, uh, be at the Dover Hope

24:54zone, 3 North Bradford Street. I'll

24:56provide it to the city clerk's office

24:58and, uh, for distribution. Thank you.

25:05>> Well, thank thank you and Dr. Sudler.

25:08>> Thank you, Council President, or acting

25:10council president. Um, Mr. Wilson. Um,

25:14have you determined the Could you

25:16explain what the footprint for downtown

25:19that you would cover with this program?

25:21>> It would be Lockerman Street. That's my

25:24main focus is Lockman Street. and then

25:27the breakoff streets which will be

25:30governors queen new um because what

25:34happen is we're going to be

25:38where the crowd is and trying to get

25:41them sign up for the program. We're

25:43going to offer these young men and women

25:45opportunity to sign up for the program

25:48and

25:50pay for

25:52their entering the program. Uh, we have

25:55some donors that's interested in paying

25:57their tuition.

26:00There's opportunities out here in

26:01construction, good paying jobs. I'm

26:05paying $60 an hour for just a person to

26:09push a broom on a prevailing wage job.

26:13And there's a lot of those jobs out

26:15there because season Rodney School

26:17District building two new schools. Do

26:20Capital School District, they're

26:22building a a new school. So, uh, down in

26:26in Lewis, uh, they've been in schools

26:28all over the state, and we have to be

26:31able to get our Delaware folks on these

26:34projects because I can tell you now,

26:37Pennsylvania, New Jersey, they're coming

26:39here and taking all these jobs. Look at

26:43it. You know, I, you know, every day all

26:48these contracts is going out. look at

26:49the uh state website for procurement all

26:52these projects and millions and millions

26:55and millions of dollars and and they're

26:58they're they're not coming home you know

27:01so therefore we refueling another

27:03economy because they spending the money

27:05making it here and taking it back to

27:07Jersey Philadelphia and cross the bridge

27:09to Newcastle

27:11>> and and the important just to piggyback

27:13off what you're saying the important

27:14thing um is that we have to prepare

27:18prepare the folks here that are in our

27:22city to be prep get them to be prepared

27:25for these jobs. There's even more jobs

27:27than that that are coming. There are

27:30jobs that are here that no one that you

27:33know companies can't fill those jobs

27:36>> and uh we just have to transform the

27:38mindset and I think that this program is

27:40an excellent opportunity

27:42uh leading them into construction type

27:45work. Um, yeah. So, that I think that's

27:47a thank you for bringing that to our

27:49attention once again. And, uh, you know,

27:52I hope we can, you know, hopefully, you

27:54know, get some skin in the game to get

27:56this off the ground.

27:56>> I appreciate it. And one thing I want to

27:58say in reference to the people that

28:00we're going to be serving.

28:01>> Excuse me. I yield.

28:02>> I'm sorry. Uh, the people that we're

28:04going to be serving. You have to

28:06understand

28:07that we I know we have a poly check

28:10polytech and they have after after

28:12school program or even continuing

28:13education program but when you have men

28:16and women that coming from prison it's

28:19hard for them some of them to go into

28:21those programs but they feel inferior.

28:24You know you got guys men and women that

28:26been in jail for 14 15 20 years that

28:29come out they can't even cut grass.

28:32I mean, it's it's sad because the prison

28:36is a warehouse

28:38because where I was at in federal

28:39prison, you had to work. If not, you

28:42being a hole for 24 hours a day and

28:45maybe a couple days a week, you get out

28:48in a cage, in a dog cage. I was in a

28:51hole. I know what it's like. And so when

28:53they come home, you know, they want to

28:56be around people that they can relate

28:58to.

29:00They can relate to. So we building that

29:03atmosphere for them to be comfortable

29:06and learn and and become a productive

29:09citizen in society.

29:13And I went to the hole for um let's say

29:17I was inciting a riot because I wanted

29:21to get programs into the prison and I

29:25had old guys that been there 25 and 30

29:28years says son don't do it don't do it.

29:31I said, "If I don't do it, how it's

29:32gonna get done?" So, I put in the

29:35paperwork, got a petition signed, put in

29:37the paperwork and this and that and got

29:40really over my head and became a product

29:43of the hole. So, came out and became a

29:46trustee with the warden because I worked

29:50my way out of the hole. So I come here

29:53today

29:55advocating

29:57for people that does not have a voice. I

30:02was at the re-entry meeting at Deltech

30:06uh last week. They had a re-entry

30:09meeting and the chief sta chief of staff

30:12of the prison system

30:16looking forward to working with me and

30:19the program and the re-entry program of

30:21the prison system.

30:23So, I just wanted to say that.

30:26>> Thank you, uh, Dr. Sudler, um,

30:30Councilman Bogardy, Councilwoman Arn,

30:33and, uh, Dr. Sudler and Mr. Lewis uh has

30:37been there. When did Mr. Lewis uh going

30:40to go online first uh while we know we

30:43have a strong connection. Uh Councilman

30:45Lewis.

30:47>> Uh yes. Um Mr. Wilson uh though I think

30:50your program is an honorable uh program

30:55uh and it will be vital in assisting

30:57with the community.

30:58>> Please, Councilman Lewis, please start

31:01over because we don't hear you

31:04>> now. We can

31:06>> Okay. Okay. Um I was saying um Mr.

31:09Wilson, I think your program is a um

31:12honorable thing and uh in particular

31:16assisting the community that I think is

31:17vital, but uh I have two questions. Uh

31:20my first question is uh the city just

31:24got out of or actually squeakaked by a

31:26major deficit and funds are kind of

31:29tight. Have you reached out to the state

31:31and federal government uh to see if you

31:33could get any assistance from them?

31:37>> Personally, I'm reaching out to the

31:38county and they have grants on the state

31:42level with DHSS that's going to be

31:44coming out. It's a SNAP grant that's

31:46going to be coming out. We applied it

31:48with the women program and we received

31:51the grants. That's how I got paid being

31:53in the women program. So, I don't know

31:56if Bob Hassenger is on the line. Are you

31:58on the line, Bob?

32:00But Bob Hassinger is the grant writer

32:04and um

32:07he will he knows all the entities that

32:10have the grants in the state of Delaware

32:12and we will be writing grants with the

32:14state of Delaware. I have been in

32:15contact with the county um Mr.

32:20Uh got the gentleman at the county Bob u

32:23one of the county commissioners and um

32:26they're interested they're interested

32:28their thing is what does what what skin

32:32in the game does the city has the the

32:34city have skin in the game they want to

32:37make sure the city have skin in the game

32:38first I guess that's that was the

32:42question

32:43>> all right my my second question is uh if

32:46in fact the city was able to provide I

32:49do with funding. Um, what's going to

32:52happen when the funding runs out? Do you

32:54have a contingency plan?

32:56>> Yes, I do. Funding will not run out.

32:59>> Funding will not run out.

33:00>> The money will not run out. Money always

33:02runs out.

33:03>> Funny Money would not run out.

33:06>> Okay.

33:06>> So, you do have a contingency plan if in

33:09fact the city did approve your request.

33:12>> Yes, sir. We have a plan. Yes, sir. We

33:14have a plan. We have three grand writers

33:17and we have a donation plan for that.

33:22Yes, we do.

33:23>> Okay. Uh with that, um I'm

33:28>> with that, I'm going to uh reserve my

33:30last comment when everybody else is done

33:32with their questions. Thank you.

33:36>> Thank you. Uh Councilman Bogardy.

33:40>> Thank you. Um Coun acting council

33:43president. Um actually this question is

33:45for you uh council president in your

33:47other in your role as uh chair not uh

33:52not committing anything. However, if

33:55there are funds if if this program is to

33:58be funded can it be funded through the

34:00CDBG?

34:03Will we be able to fund it through there

34:05through that process?

34:10Anderson,

34:12>> I

34:14that has certain specific parameters. I

34:17would have to defer that to the uh CBZG

34:20manager, program manager.

34:23>> But if those parameters are met, it's

34:25it's it's possible that that uh this the

34:28funding can come from there. Is that

34:30what I hear you saying?

34:32if if it mean meets the parameters of

34:37the CBDG which uh which are very

34:40specific

34:42um it if that were the case yes but I

34:45can't guarantee that it meets the

34:47parameters

34:49>> from from what you've heard um about the

34:51work and its effort to to address u some

34:56very significant specific issues

34:59downtown

35:00Um,

35:02I

35:02>> I would like to uh ask uh Mrs. O'Brien

35:06to come forward because I do not want to

35:10speculate on

35:12on the specifics of a of the of a

35:15federal funding program there.

35:17>> Thank you. I appreciate that.

35:19>> Hi, Debbie O'Brien, community

35:20development manager. Um that is a very

35:23good question and I would consider that

35:25a national objective that would uh refer

35:28to like public services. So it is

35:31something that we could possibly look

35:32at. I have forwarded the application for

35:35the CDBG um uh grant to

35:40um the email address that I got. I

35:43haven't heard anything back yet though.

35:45>> Thank you. I yel that that helps me in

35:48some decision making. I yel Thank you.

35:50Thank you, council president. Thank you

35:51for uh Miss O'Brien, and thank you, Mr.

35:54Dorson.

35:55>> Thank you, Dr. Sudler, and then uh

35:58Councilwoman Art.

36:00>> Thank you, Acting uh Council President

36:03uh Anderson. And thank you, um Mr.

36:05Wilson, for your presentation. And I

36:07want to say, if I haven't said it um

36:09publicly, thank you for your

36:11entrepreneurship. I am as recipient of

36:14your entrepreneurship from fresh look

36:15from when I used to get my hair cut here

36:17uh fresh look to coming back from

36:19Georgia uh HBCU coming back and you

36:22allowed me to cut hair uh in your shop

36:24and I want to say thank you on behalf of

36:26of the youth back then and I'm sure

36:28you're still doing things for the youth

36:30now. So that sort of leads to my

36:31question with your program. Are there

36:33any age restrictions for the youth? Um

36:36with our opioid use disorder task force

36:39uh it is our aim and objective to focus

36:42on the youth. We have realized that

36:43there is a gap in services when it comes

36:46to opioids and some of the challenges

36:48and the family unit as a whole dealing

36:51with the youth and I heard you mention a

36:53lot about the youth. Can you elaborate

36:55on whether or not um what kind of

36:57opportunities would be for the youth and

36:59whether it's like the age range under

37:0218? Uh could you elaborate on that for

37:04me please? Yes. Um there's a a program

37:07called Youth Build and it's with Wington

37:10Housing Authority and it's um supported

37:14uh by the government funds. Uh that is a

37:18program that we want to start here in

37:20Dover. I am now speaking with the Dober

37:23Housing Authority uh about that because

37:27I do have a construction company and uh

37:30on on a project of my own. I'm planning

37:34on creating opportunities for a youth

37:38build and that age group will be 16 to

37:4324.

37:45It's been a very successful program

37:48um in Wington. I work with it in Wington

37:52and uh that is something because the

37:55opportunities for youth to have uh job

37:58opportunities here is is is short. So we

38:01want to create something that they can

38:04be able to use the hands. One thing

38:06about it if you learn how to use your

38:07hand like my father said you'll never go

38:09broke.

38:09>> Yeah. Absolutely. I concur. So you are

38:12saying with the Buddha and suited

38:13initiative here there are opportunities

38:15for individuals under 18.

38:17>> Yes.

38:18>> Okay. Thank you. Um, also with the

38:20exhibit E, um, use uh, for the

38:23remediation of the abatement uh,

38:24guidelines, there's a major section

38:27there. Um, we're having a meeting, like

38:29I said, on the 7th of October. I would

38:33strongly urge you to come and anyone

38:35else that's in the community to come uh,

38:37to our meeting uh, for not only uh,

38:40future funds, but to understand the

38:41process itself and what we are doing

38:44underneath the mayor's uh, leadership

38:46and and administration. and what we are

38:48doing uh to meet those mandates. Um so I

38:53also would offer that you partner or

38:56link with the Delaware State Housing

38:59Authority as we know that they are

39:01looking to do something at the Sherin

39:04and converting that into wraparound

39:06services. I know you talked about

39:08wraparound services.

39:10>> I'm meeting them tomorrow.

39:12>> Okay. I have to say no more. Thank you.

39:14As they say, say no more, right? So

39:15thank you. I yield.

39:17Thank you, Councilwoman Art.

39:21>> Thank you. So, I'm fully supportive of

39:24cleaning up downtown. I think that

39:25that's definitely needed. I'm also fully

39:28supportive of job skills and job

39:30training. Um, help me understand how

39:32these two things are connected in your

39:34proposal. So, it's an eight-week

39:35program. So, we're starting off with

39:37with soft skills and cleaning up

39:39>> and then connecting to established

39:42programs that offer job skills training.

39:45And if

39:46>> we are established, we will we are we

39:49will be the established program that we

39:51offer in the job training. We have auto

39:53mechanics, we have union, retired union

39:56uh carpenters and masons that will be

39:58teaching the program. And furthermore,

40:01we're partnering with the union uh with

40:05local 199. We're going to be partnering

40:07with we're going to be partnering with

40:08the brick layer union out of

40:10Pennsylvania who's looking for a

40:12location here in Delaware. They just

40:14opened up a location up in Bear for

40:17training. So, they want to have a

40:19location across the bridge uh that can

40:22handle Kent County and Sussex County.

40:25>> And so, when I met with them last week,

40:28uh our location is will be the location.

40:31>> Okay. And that's a property that you

40:33currently own.

40:34>> That's a property that I'm at that we

40:36currently u hold right now. As a

40:38suggestion, when you submit your

40:39application, I think you should have

40:41letters of commitment from the local 199

40:43and you mentioned Tech Force as a also a

40:45partner.

40:46>> Yes, Tech advise you to have a letter of

40:48commitment from them as well.

40:50>> Uh if Monty 22 on the line from Tech

40:54Force,

41:01>> yes, I have a letter commitment from

41:02them already.

41:03>> Okay. To submit with the application, I

41:05think that would strengthen the

41:06application. Um, and you understand

41:09we're not making any decisions tonight.

41:12>> You would submit an application and then

41:14staff would review it.

41:16>> Um, check references and check all the

41:19facts and data and then it would be

41:20brought back to us. So,

41:22>> thank you for your time. I yield.

41:26>> Thank you.

41:28That's Dr. Sudler.

41:31>> Thank you for recognizing me. Were you

41:33under the impression that we were going

41:34to take action or was there any

41:36discussion prior to you comes I I

41:39noticed your disappointment?

41:40>> Well, I I I was wondering I've been here

41:42three four times.

41:43>> Yes, you have.

41:44>> And u and I'm still spending money,

41:48>> you know. I'm still spending money. I

41:49still holding down the buildings

41:50buildings, right?

41:52>> And and I still have people ready to be

41:55trained. And if I don't get it from you,

41:57it's coming out of my pocket. Like it's

41:59been coming out of my pocket. We need to

42:01get this started. we get it started, we

42:03can have a snowball effect.

42:05>> Okay. So, let me ask you this question

42:07because I know the last time that you

42:08were here, um, council president Neil

42:12had asked you to provide the application

42:16and all of the and meet the criteria and

42:19all the necessary um, questions to be

42:22answered then

42:23>> and I think that you have already done

42:25that.

42:27Is that correct? I in the application I

42:29what I submitted and I was speaking with

42:31um I'm g be miss Debbie Miss Debbie.

42:35Miss Debbie

42:36>> do we have the application on file?

42:39>> Yes.

42:40>> Um the council pre acting council

42:42president Anderson

42:44>> could I have sorry just a minute. Acting

42:46Council President Anderson, uh, could

42:48you, um, defer that question to, um, the

42:53proper individual to answer that in

42:55regards to whether or not we have their

42:57application on file?

42:59>> Now, for the application for the

43:03community development funds or the other

43:06>> um,

43:06>> we're receiving funds

43:07>> receiving funds, Mr.

43:09>> for this initiative.

43:10>> Mrs. Dooka, do you have any information

43:12on that?

43:14>> Um, because I know there's

43:16application on one of the funds and I I

43:20don't know the status of it.

43:22>> The only application I'm aware of is the

43:24one that's in the packet for the

43:26economic development funds, but I would

43:29like to note that uh those fund that

43:32application was closed in June by

43:35council. So, it would need to be brought

43:38back in order to consider anyone for it.

43:40Uh, I will also note though that the

43:43motion

43:44um did not apply to the applications

43:48that were currently being considered,

43:50only new ones.

43:52Ju just just to note that. Um, so and

43:56that was done so not to interfere with

43:58the existing applications.

44:01>> Um, yes,

44:03C,

44:03>> thank you for um allow me to continue.

44:06Um, acting council president, I I would

44:08like to state for the record uh that

44:11I've heard um all that I needed to hear

44:14and I support this initiative because

44:17like uh Mr. Wilson said, this is the

44:19third time uh that he's been here, if

44:22not the fourth,

44:23>> fourth.

44:23>> And I was under the impression that we

44:25were voting tonight um based on the

44:28previous time he was here when Council

44:29President Neil had stated, "Hey, Mr.

44:32Wilson, get everything you need to get

44:34into us." [clears throat] Um, and we'll

44:36be ready. Well, he I don't know if his

44:38exact words will be ready to proceed,

44:40but it implied that that's all he needed

44:44to do. And the next step or the next

44:48time he came in front of us, we would be

44:50voting on this. So, I was I'm ready to

44:52vote. For the record, you have my

44:54support. If we won't if we don't vote

44:56tonight, it won't be because I'm not in

44:58support of voting tonight and supporting

45:00your initiative. Uh, this is the third

45:02time. I don't I don't know how much more

45:04that we need to hear from you uh to get

45:07the money. So, um I support you. I

45:10yield.

45:12>> The uh Councilman Rosha, you're

45:15recognized.

45:16>> Yeah, I agree with what Dr. Sler said,

45:19but I How come this wasn't put on the

45:22leg and fin if we was going to do

45:23something like that? That you know what

45:25I mean?

45:26>> Yes. I um

45:29I

45:29>> mean, it should be it should be on a

45:31committee. I was not asked about this

45:33being on the leg and fin. Um it it may

45:37be because we are considering a

45:42uh a supplemental budget in October.

45:48Um

45:50I'm just just going to let you know

45:52that.

45:52>> Okay. Okay. So, that may be uh part of

45:54the uh the reasoning to to see if this

45:59goes and is re referred to be part of

46:02that.

46:03>> Uh

46:04>> I yield

46:05>> Councilman Bogardy.

46:06>> Yes.

46:06>> And Councilman.

46:08>> Thank you, acting council president

46:09>> and our mayor.

46:11>> A logistic well kind of a

46:16can help. I don't know right now. um

46:20agreeing with with um my colleagues to

46:23the left of me. Um however, is there an

46:27opportunity because if if there's the

46:30fund is already closed, I understand

46:31that the language about existing

46:34contracts or existing uh applications.

46:36My question is

46:40it's I like I like ease. Not not that

46:44that not that I avoid conflict or

46:46complex issues, but when there's an

46:48easier path uh to get to where you need

46:51to be, I I don't I don't I look for

46:53those. Could it be that the easier path

46:58um would be to take whatever application

47:00that been submitted it and forward it to

47:02the CD CDBG? We've already heard loosely

47:06not a commitment loosely that what has

47:09been presented already falls under the

47:12umbrella and probably meets meet those

47:15guidelines. Now, I don't know. I I you

47:18know, charge me. I don't know the

47:19complete CDBG application process or

47:22what what it entails and and if the

47:24information that you've already

47:25provided, but could there be a a quick

47:29forwarding of an email or of that

47:32application to the CDBG and follow

47:34whatever process so that way we won't

47:37have to look for additional fundings per

47:40se because this you know because the

47:43funds that may or may not exist in the

47:45CBG CDBG now or in the future

47:49So, in short, would it be a simple path?

47:52I I get it. You know, you keep coming

47:54back. I get it. And where I I don't want

47:56you to have to do that, but

47:58>> for for it looks like it's something's

48:01going to happen and this may not happen

48:02tonight, but could we just ask him to

48:07apply for the CDBG so it so that an

48:11easier path? uh the um

48:15uh with the CBDG

48:18um once that application goes through it

48:22then has to be reviewed, scored and then

48:24come back to parks, recreation,

48:26community enhancement for a vote of

48:29approval and then go to C. So, so it

48:32still has to come back through a path.

48:35>> So, both path will have to come back.

48:37Correct.

48:37>> Correct. So, but my but but now with the

48:40CDBG there's not as much question of

48:44budget because the money will probably

48:47that the money is could potentially be

48:49there.

48:50>> I don't know if money exists for that at

48:53the moment but we'll we'll find out when

48:56the CBDG

48:58DDG manager uh comes up for later. Um

49:03yes sir. I I Okay, I I'll yield and

49:07we'll make that decision later. Thank

49:09you for the clarity.

49:10>> Thank you. Um Dr. Sler,

49:14>> I will yield and be the gentleman I am

49:16to Councilwoman Art.

49:18>> I was just

49:20I don't have a comment.

49:21>> I didn't see your hand go up.

49:23>> I thought I thought your hand was out.

49:25>> We'll go to I I'll yield to Councilman

49:28uh Lewis because he is online like you

49:29said. It's uh

49:30>> I've been raising my hand for the last

49:3320 minutes.

49:34Uh I don't know if Mr. Wilson was aware

49:37of that. Um but uh most of the money

49:42right now is allocated for the Garrison

49:45Oak entry project and as Miss Dooka had

49:49indicated um the grant program was

49:51closed by a motion back in June and

49:54voted by council in July. So I think

49:58that we would um have to have a budget

50:01amendment to this. This isn't something

50:02that could be done overnight. And I'll

50:05defer to uh our finance director, Miss

50:07Mary, uh to elaborate.

50:13Miss Mary,

50:18>> uh you

50:20we Mrs. Barney, you're recognized.

50:23>> I forgive me. Um I'm not going to walk

50:25down. I'm having some trouble walking

50:27today.

50:27>> That's fine. Uh but uh I would concur

50:31with Councilman Lewis. We would require

50:34a budget amendment and the application

50:36process would need to be reopened. I'd

50:39like to note that the

50:40>> I would note that it wouldn't have to be

50:42reopened because

50:43>> May I covered the uh June 22nd at the

50:48council committee of the whole there was

50:51a vote to end the application process.

50:54It was approved on July 13th. The date

50:56of the application for this particular

50:58application is July 15th.

51:02>> Okay.

51:02>> Okay. Thank you.

51:04>> All right. Thank you.

51:06>> Thank you, Miss Marty.

51:09>> But yes, now we will at this time Dr.

51:14Suddler.

51:18>> Thank you for recognizing me. Um quite

51:21often in council when we're at some kind

51:25of deliberation of this magnitude where

51:28there's a somewhat a consensus that we

51:30want to move a project along uh but

51:33there's some minor adjustments that need

51:35to be made in order to approve it. Um I

51:39think sometimes we like approve it

51:41depending on if there's money available

51:45so that it will expedite the initiative

51:50and if the money is there then it's

51:52already approved. If it's not then it's

51:55not but then you won't have to come

51:57back. If the money is there for the

52:00fourth or fifth time

52:02um and we could just move it along it.

52:05Now, I'm going to lean on your infamous

52:09wisdom with parliamentary procedures and

52:11the process uh council acting council

52:14president Anderson because I have to

52:16admit you have a lot of insight when it

52:18comes uh to that domain. So, in your

52:21knowledge, is there any way that if we

52:24wanted to do something of that magnitude

52:26that that would be permissible

52:29um as of today? Could could could you

52:32elaborate on that? I'm leaning on your

52:34your wisdom and you do have some wisdom

52:36quite a bit in this domain.

52:38>> Well, thank you sir. The uh what I would

52:42think would be that we would refer this

52:44to staff for consideration in the budget

52:47amendment which uh which we plan to

52:51bring forward in in the next month. Um

52:55that that would be the motion that I

52:57would particularly make. Um, but it I'm

53:00not saying that's the only path forward,

53:02but but since you asked, that's the

53:04motion I would make.

53:06>> And so in layman's terms, can you

53:08explain that uh to some individuals that

53:10may not

53:11>> know or hear um you know, can you

53:14explain it a little? What would we do if

53:16we did do that? Well, like uh Councilman

53:19Lewis said, um the money in the economic

53:23development fund uh a lot of it was um

53:27utilized for

53:29the uh construction at Garrison or at

53:32least set aside for that. Um not

53:35necessarily used for that. It was set

53:37aside for that because we did not know

53:40if we were able going to be able to get

53:42a grant that was applied for by Mr. lion

53:46to um pay for that project. That project

53:51that grant was approved and that means

53:54that we will

53:56have have a budget amendment to to

54:00basically allocate the grant money for

54:04that project instead of the economic

54:07development money for the project.

54:09Therefore, the money uh at least part of

54:12that money will come back to the

54:14economic development fund. All that

54:16needs to be handled in the budget

54:18amendment. We were uh looking at when to

54:21do that and the induced to some other

54:24projects. Uh we decided consultation

54:27with the city manager to that that would

54:30be brought forward in October.

54:35>> Okay. Okay. So, it sounds like this

54:36could be potentially approved in October

54:38and October just right around the

54:40corner. I would be amenable um as one of

54:43the representatives of the fourth

54:45district in which the services are going

54:47to be rendered in this area to wait

54:49until October which is right around the

54:52corner. Um thank you for your thank you

54:55for your feedback. I appreciate it and I

54:57now yield. Thank you.

54:59>> We could refer to staff. That's correct.

55:02and then

55:04>> and and and if you can help me out with

55:05a motion to that point um after or maybe

55:09after an additional discussion, but I

55:11think you know if you can do the motion,

55:12I would definitely second it.

55:15>> Sounds reasonable. Or may uh I'm going

55:18to go to Mrs. Art and our mayor.

55:23>> Thank you. Just just to clarify the

55:24application that we're talking about, it

55:26is in its entirety within this packet.

55:29Are is there any additional information

55:31that has not been shared in this packet?

55:36>> Is there

55:37>> is there

55:39>> the information in the packet is that's

55:41your application.

55:42>> Yes. Yes, ma'am.

55:43>> Okay. I would say that it is not

55:45complete and here it does not meet the

55:47requirements. We spent a lot of time

55:49putting in the effort of outlining each

55:52specific thing that would be required

55:54for an application. proof of operation

55:56for two years or more, location map and

55:59street address, zoning confirmation,

56:05um progress reports. There's if you if

56:08you read through what's required and I

56:11encourage you to do that, fill out all

56:14this 500word description. just fill out

56:17the application and then the staff

56:19reviews the information and verifies

56:22that information and provides a report

56:24back to council. That's what I'm looking

56:26for and beyond that I'm not willing to

56:28support. I yield.

56:30>> Thank you.

56:31>> Thank you very much. Um

56:34uh Mr. Mayor,

56:36>> thank you, Mr. President. I'll council.

56:39>> I'll yield to Councilman Bogertive as

56:40long as he gives me the microphone back.

56:44I will always give you the microphone

56:46back. Your honor, the honorable

56:48>> you recognize.

56:49>> I appreciate you. In the meantime,

56:54I'm just in the meantime, while you're

56:56waiting, could would it would it would

56:59it be wise to also submit your

57:02application through to the CDBG?

57:05>> Yes, sir.

57:06>> In the meantime, so so that way you have

57:09more than one bite at the apple. I I was

57:11trying to get that to do. So, in the

57:15meantime, while you're doing that, do

57:18both.

57:19>> Hypothetically speaking, just in case

57:21there's funding in the CDBG,

57:22>> we'll do

57:23>> I yield. I'm not I'm just offering

57:27>> advice. I'm not telling you what to do.

57:29>> Thank you.

57:30>> I advise and I yield. Okay.

57:35>> Thank you.

57:35>> Thank you. We'll do.

57:38>> Thank you, Mr. President. Uh Mr. Mr.

57:40Wilson, as you know, uh I think that you

57:43understand that council supports

57:46uh the program that you've brought

57:49forth.

57:50uh much to sometimes my dismay we have

57:54process that we have to go through and I

57:57think it would be in the best interest

58:00of your program and it's continuation as

58:02part of the uh the city funding it that

58:06we follow the process

58:08>> much as we probably I think a lot of

58:10folks in the room would like to write

58:12you a check now but the process doesn't

58:14allow us to do so

58:16>> okay

58:16>> but I think if you follow through on the

58:18request that Miss AR had. We de we

58:22determine a source of revenue that is

58:25available for us to give you those funds

58:28and that a an appropriate uh committee

58:31action form put together by our staff

58:34based on the information that you give

58:35us uh that we could move forward on this

58:38project.

58:39>> Well do.

58:39>> So uh don't be discouraged because we

58:43haven't said no but we can't say yes.

58:47You Mr. President.

58:48>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our our

58:51um our process is sometimes annoying,

58:55but it served us well. Okay. Um we and

58:58it served the organizations well because

59:02unlike other municipalities, unlike the

59:05state of Delaware and in other places,

59:08we have not had any

59:12scandals or anything of that nature

59:14because we handle it so well. And it's

59:17um and but it is a um I'm going to get

59:23go get go to uh Councilman Lewis.

59:27>> No, I'd just like to uh state that I

59:30just went through various documents

59:33uh that I have before me and uh

59:35Councilwoman Art is correct. The

59:38application has to meet the grant

59:40standards in the spirit of fairness. So

59:43Mr. Wilson, I would go through the

59:46paperwork with a fine tooth comb to make

59:48sure you have your tees crossed and your

59:50eyes dotted. And I leave it at that.

59:53Thank you.

59:55>> Thank you.

59:56>> Thank you very much. And uh we have uh

1:00:01public comment. Let's uh do this

1:00:05rolling. U Mr. Thank you uh Mr. FA.

1:00:10And then we have online Miss Shell Paul.

1:00:16>> I think it's, you know, not against the

1:00:18uh proposal. However, quick question.

1:00:22What's the price tag of this? I mean, he

1:00:24gave a nice speech, but what's the price

1:00:26tag? Second of all,

1:00:29uh cleaning up the streets of Lockerman.

1:00:32Uh what does our city employees do? They

1:00:35clean the streets or the sidewalks? the

1:00:37sidewalks in normal development we have

1:00:40to clean and make sure free of snow.

1:00:42Does that fall on the city to clean the

1:00:44street? I mean the sidewalks down Walker

1:00:46or does it go to uh to the uh vendors

1:00:51that own the uh are running or own the

1:00:52property? My other thing is um you

1:00:56talking about a budget amendment

1:00:58for the citizens that are on fixed

1:01:00income or most vulnerable. A budget

1:01:02amendment should not put any additional

1:01:04costs or fees onto the citizens of

1:01:06Dover.

1:01:08And I said this before, the city with $7

1:01:11million in the hole,

1:01:14we have our police officers are going

1:01:16through binding arbitration because you

1:01:18don't have funds to give them the raise

1:01:21that they're looking for. So,

1:01:24if you have surplus money, it's good to

1:01:27do things to support the community and

1:01:29stuff like that. But if you're

1:01:30hemorrhaging money,

1:01:32you know, unless we correct our issue,

1:01:35we may be $14 million by the time we

1:01:38come to uh the next budget. So, we need

1:01:40to look cautiously. I'm not against,

1:01:44you know, helping people up and getting

1:01:46jobs and all that, but if the city

1:01:48doesn't have the funds, it should go to

1:01:50the state or federal government or the

1:01:52county. I mean, we probably need

1:01:55equipment in our city or our trucks and

1:01:57our other department heads. So, we got

1:02:00to evaluate everything. Thank you for

1:02:02your time.

1:02:04>> Thank you. And uh

1:02:08and Miss uh Smack,

1:02:12she can if you could give her the

1:02:14microphone, please. Thank you.

1:02:18>> I just have a question. Couldn't you uh

1:02:20do a workshop so that people who are

1:02:23applying for these grants know how to

1:02:26properly um apply for them? do a

1:02:28workshop for them so they can know what

1:02:31they do in other cities.

1:02:33>> Thank you.

1:02:36And uh we're going to Miss Paul.

1:02:44>> Hello. Good evening everyone. Sh Paul do

1:02:47Delaware. Um the program in itself um is

1:02:52a great program. I think um one of the

1:02:56things that my concern is is a we're

1:02:59already in a deficit. B. Um,

1:03:03[clears throat]

1:03:04city manager Duca had basically stated,

1:03:07you know, during the budget process that

1:03:11there the funding there is no pulling or

1:03:14finding the money from anywhere. With

1:03:17this city having the deficit that it has

1:03:20and the rates of and user fees going up

1:03:23across the board, I don't think it's

1:03:26fair to constituents right now to pull

1:03:29that money if you could not use it to

1:03:33save them cost on an increase on rates.

1:03:37Um furthermore with the process I think

1:03:39um Miss Marne has stated that you know

1:03:44that as far as the application process

1:03:46when that application or when those

1:03:48funds open back up will those

1:03:50applications be um able to be sought

1:03:57by all organizations not just one

1:04:00individual organization because there

1:04:02are many grassroots organizations that

1:04:04are out here that are actually working

1:04:07towards the initiative that the city

1:04:10actually has and for the issues that

1:04:12they're curing. And then finally, you

1:04:14know, will this funding be um tracked

1:04:18for spending to make sure that the money

1:04:20is being spent and geared towards the

1:04:23initiative? Are we making sure that the

1:04:25initiative is uh 100% going the way that

1:04:30it's earmarked and the way that it was

1:04:32applied for? I think and that's the main

1:04:34concern to make sure that constituents

1:04:36and rateayers are not going to absorb

1:04:39the cost of more um abuse funding from

1:04:44organizations that are not doing things

1:04:46properly. So I think that's the main

1:04:49concern um you know with constituents at

1:04:53this time. But the the plan in itself is

1:04:56a great idea and you know hopefully you

1:04:59know the funding will become available

1:05:01in the near future. But hopefully that

1:05:03door will be opened up to all

1:05:04organizations that again have um stake

1:05:08and you know have the same goal.

1:05:13>> Thank you. Uh further public comments

1:05:17Mr. Hall

1:05:24>> Doug Hall do Delaware. Good evening

1:05:26council. Good evening community. Um I'm

1:05:29on board with Smack you guys. We got

1:05:32there's got to be some kind of event to

1:05:35show people that how to write a grant

1:05:37because some people are unfamiliar with

1:05:38it. Um and if you don't do that, you're

1:05:40just kicking a can down the road. And

1:05:43let's be honest, the budget's in trouble

1:05:45because money is being spent. Why are we

1:05:47Why is the city spending money on

1:05:48Garrison Oak Park? What for millionaires

1:05:50and billionaires to bring in data

1:05:51centers? Because that's where it's

1:05:54going. You guys know it. There's a

1:05:55mortorium right now. But spend the money

1:05:57on the little businesses. The city sold

1:05:59their soul to corporate businesses. Tax

1:06:02breaks, permit breaks. You don't do that

1:06:04to the little guys. And little guys are

1:06:06coming in. You guys are condemning their

1:06:08buildings. Properties are condemning

1:06:09their buildings because you got very

1:06:11overzealous inspectors. That's why we're

1:06:14in a deficit. You got police officers

1:06:15writing tickets who do not show up to

1:06:18court. So guess what? The ticket gets

1:06:19out. There goes city money going again.

1:06:22I was just at Waw Wa. So was our police

1:06:25chief. young man walked right out the

1:06:28front door and I said, "Man, you don't

1:06:30got to steal." You know what he said to

1:06:31me? "I don't give a I don't even care if

1:06:33he sees me." And I didn't even know who

1:06:35he was talking about. You know, he

1:06:36walked out past the police chief. I have

1:06:37it right here on my phone. Your police

1:06:40chief is [laughter] is in there ordering

1:06:43food while we're walking out the door.

1:06:47That's the problem with the city. Let's

1:06:49be real. So, Mr. Anderson saying no

1:06:51scandal. I respect you because you do

1:06:53show up. No scandals. Let's not go

1:06:55there. because there's a lot of them

1:06:57here.

1:07:01I know who shows up. Mr. Lewis, Mr.

1:07:04Seller, you do show up to events.

1:07:06There's a lot of faces here. I don't

1:07:07see.

1:07:11So, let's be honest. Let's not get up

1:07:13here with no scandal and all that BS.

1:07:15We're done. We're done hearing that.

1:07:16We're done hearing it.

1:07:18>> Thank you.

1:07:20And uh

1:07:25>> now uh next

1:07:29please come forward.

1:07:32>> This me. Is this me?

1:07:34>> Well, man, I just have one question. Um

1:07:37because it it's baffling me that we're

1:07:39in a deficit, but how is Dover bringing

1:07:44money in in order to clear the deficit?

1:07:46Because like I said, we go down

1:07:48Lucerman. There are businesses that are

1:07:50closed. There are b a little bracelet

1:07:53store that was open. We first moved down

1:07:55here. My daughter wanted to go to it. It

1:07:56was closed a week later. I mean, it it

1:08:00and it sold really beautiful stuff. I

1:08:02mean, we're we're seeing businesses go

1:08:04and we're not seeing businesses come

1:08:06back. I've even thought about opening

1:08:08the the restaurant that closed, the bar

1:08:10and grill and all that stuff. Yeah. I I

1:08:13changed my mind on that because there's

1:08:15no parking and there's people outside

1:08:18that wouldn't, you know, it would make

1:08:21my property outside look horrible and

1:08:24I'd have to invite them in and give them

1:08:25a free meal because that's the kind of

1:08:27person I am. So, I'd be selling my soul

1:08:29to the devil going here, you know, free

1:08:32food for everybody. It's on me. Um, but

1:08:36I'd like to know where exactly uh are we

1:08:39going with bringing money into Dover

1:08:41because it seems like it's going out and

1:08:44we're spending money on projects that we

1:08:46can't even cash run checks on and we

1:08:49need to figure out what we need to do in

1:08:52order to be able to cash those checks

1:08:54and make sure, you know, the bank clears

1:08:55them because it doesn't seem like it's

1:08:58going that way. And I'm not seeing any

1:08:59improvements because you guys are

1:09:01getting my taxes

1:09:03and I'm not seeing, you know, the use of

1:09:06it. And like I said, there are two

1:09:08council members, maybe three or that

1:09:11that, you know, understand what I'm

1:09:13going through and understand what my

1:09:15neighbors are going through cuz I take

1:09:16care of the elderly in my community. So

1:09:19if they need food, guess what? I go

1:09:20spend my money that, you know, I make to

1:09:23go make sure that they have food in

1:09:24their house just like my kids would. So,

1:09:27you know, I I'm showing community and

1:09:30I'm not seeing community giving back by

1:09:34going, "Okay, there's a business down

1:09:36the street. Yes, we're supporting small

1:09:37businesses. Yes, we're supporting the

1:09:41community itself by, you know, going out

1:09:43help picking trash on a weekend. See, we

1:09:47have these groups that are doing it, but

1:09:48where are the council members? Where

1:09:50where where is our local government

1:09:53going out and and picking stuff up? Me

1:09:56and Southernther went and shoveled snow

1:09:58off of people's driveways and sidewalks.

1:10:00I mean, we we need to do something about

1:10:03this and we need to show where we can

1:10:05bring money in

1:10:07and be able to complete projects without

1:10:09causing hassle and traffic and more

1:10:12homeless people and more abandoned

1:10:14buildings. We need to get ourselves

1:10:16together here because it all is one big

1:10:18mumbled mess. And as my husband would

1:10:20say, you keep mumbling. I'm mumbling

1:10:23because you want to know what is true.

1:10:25There's different issues that I'm very

1:10:26very passionate about that. Yeah. As a

1:10:29council person, I would definitely go,

1:10:31okay, what what what's going on here?

1:10:33Why aren't we all agreeing on this? Cuz

1:10:35nothing's easy. Tell my daughter that

1:10:38nothing's ever easy till you work for

1:10:40it, then it's easy.

1:10:43>> Thank you.

1:10:45Anyone else?

1:10:52>> And your name is [clears throat] Could

1:10:56you say that in the microphone, please,

1:10:58for the recording?

1:10:59>> My name is Michael Shinbomb. I'm the

1:11:01owner of Chris and Holly Family

1:11:03Entertainment. Um, tomorrow marks the

1:11:07third year that I have lived in Dover.

1:11:11Um, I had dreams of being a dobbas based

1:11:16business and the reality is that I am a

1:11:20Delaware based Delaware business based

1:11:23in Dover. Um, my wife and I primarily do

1:11:27children's entertainment. We're balloon

1:11:28twisters. We're um we're clowns. We're

1:11:31magicians. We're a variety of things.

1:11:33Point is though, we do very well as a

1:11:35business because we serve all of

1:11:37Delaware and Eastern Maryland. But if

1:11:39you look at our market, it's like a

1:11:41donut. We have Newcastle all over the

1:11:44place. We have Sussex County all over

1:11:47the place. Eastern Maryland, beautiful.

1:11:49Kent County, crickets. I mean, we have

1:11:51some we have some representation in Kent

1:11:53County and over, but it's limited. And

1:11:57um

1:12:00there's a point to this. And

1:12:06I have a hard time

1:12:10despite the fact of being five-star

1:12:12members of the CDCC

1:12:14and of doing everything we can to be

1:12:19part of this. We have a 100% tip

1:12:24um policy where wherever we go, 100% of

1:12:28our tips go to the charity or nonprofit

1:12:31of the client's choosing. And when they

1:12:33don't choose one, we donate all of our

1:12:35tips to wherever it is. I have to choose

1:12:38my words very carefully of what I do in

1:12:40December.

1:12:41But 50% of everything we do in December

1:12:44is pro bono. And we do all of this

1:12:47because we do very well at what we do.

1:12:50because of everything we do outside

1:12:53of

1:12:54of Kent County. And were it not for

1:12:57that, I don't know if I could keep the

1:13:01house that I've had for three years, I

1:13:03may very well be homeless. And but for

1:13:06the incredible work of people like like

1:13:09pastor Pastor Hajj and Teresa Campbell

1:13:11Harris, neighbors in need, I could be

1:13:14homeless, too. But for the grace of God,

1:13:16my privilege, my anxiety, and everything

1:13:19else,

1:13:21um, I do my best to help a community

1:13:24that really

1:13:26is is seems to just have a real

1:13:28antipathy towards the homeless. And so

1:13:31I'm here and I don't think I'm moving

1:13:34from Dover, but I want to have pride in

1:13:38being here, being with all of you, being

1:13:40your neighbor, and everything else. I

1:13:43want to love Dover as much as I've come

1:13:45to love Delaware and Delm Marva. I

1:13:48really, really want to. But I want to

1:13:50see that compassion that I feel that I'm

1:13:54attracted to with the People's Church

1:13:56certainly has that. I want to feel that

1:14:00love of my neighbors

1:14:04and I'm I'm I'm waiting to hear it from

1:14:06you guys.

1:14:07>> So that's it.

1:14:08>> Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:14:12now.

1:14:16All right. Now,

1:14:19and that's

1:14:22all I see. So, uh what is the pleasure

1:14:25of the committee?

1:14:31Dr. Sudler, did you wish to refer this

1:14:34to uh staff for review

1:14:38for

1:14:38>> Yes. Thank you. at this possible funding

1:14:40>> at this absolutely um based on the fact

1:14:45that the application is incomplete

1:14:49um which I do support the initiative um

1:14:52based on the fact that it's incomplete

1:14:54and needs to be completed. I would

1:14:56suggest that um we would defer to staff

1:14:58or and give Mr. Wilson some time to

1:15:01complete the application and also submit

1:15:03it to both entities and I think he's

1:15:06also amanable to that and if there's

1:15:08anything that we can do um

1:15:12don't don't hesitate to reach out to

1:15:14staff if there's any questions you know

1:15:17and filling out the application we want

1:15:18to see everyone successful and so um

1:15:22that's my motion that we defer to staff

1:15:25and give Mr. Wilson an opportunity to

1:15:27complete the application so that he can

1:15:29be approved.

1:15:31>> Is there a second?

1:15:32>> Oerty seconds.

1:15:34>> Been moved by Dr. Sudler count seconded

1:15:37by Councilman Bogerty. Is there

1:15:39discussion?

1:15:44>> All in favor?

1:15:46>> I

1:15:46>> I

1:15:47>> I

1:15:50motion

1:15:52the motion carries unanimously.

1:15:56That takes us two finally to the uh

1:16:00parks and recreation com community

1:16:02enhancement committee. Um

1:16:06uh chairwoman Hall had a family

1:16:09emergency and properly notified.

1:16:15What's that? She's not here. Right. She

1:16:17prop had a family emergency and properly

1:16:19notified uh council president. Um there

1:16:23is only one item on the agenda but at

1:16:28this time I would uh entertain a motion

1:16:31to adopt the agenda.

1:16:34>> Seller seller moves to adopt the agenda

1:16:36as presented.

1:16:38>> Second.

1:16:39>> It's been moved and seconded. Uh any

1:16:42discussion or amendment? All in favor? I

1:16:47>> I is there are there any uh civilian

1:16:50members for parks, recreation, and

1:16:52community enhancement here or online?

1:16:59>> Okay.

1:17:01All right. Um so the first item is

1:17:04consideration of withdrawn reallocation

1:17:07of CBDG funds for people's community

1:17:09center renovation project. Um,

1:17:13so Brian,

1:17:14>> community

1:17:15>> uh development manager. Yeah. Yes.

1:17:18Councilman Dr. Sler.

1:17:20>> Uh,

1:17:22thank you for recognizing me. Uh, acting

1:17:24council president um Anderson, um, just

1:17:28wanted to say that it appears that the

1:17:30staff recommendation is to approve the

1:17:32withdrawal of the previously approved

1:17:3540,000. Um, can can you can we explain

1:17:39that a little bit? Uh that that's will

1:17:41be her presentation.

1:17:43>> Oh, okay. Thank you.

1:17:44>> Thank you. Um the at this time uh uh we

1:17:50um Councilman Rosha is uh is recusing.

1:17:54Um all right. Now you may continue.

1:17:58>> Good evening. My name is Debbie O'Brien,

1:18:01community development manager. One of my

1:18:04responsibilities is to administer the

1:18:06community development block grant

1:18:08funding that the city receives from HUD

1:18:10annually. I'm here tonight to present

1:18:12the facts that have influenced my

1:18:14recommendation to withdraw this funding

1:18:16and to explain why based on the

1:18:18information gathered through my review.

1:18:21I believe this is the prudent course of

1:18:23action. I want to emphasize that this

1:18:25recommendation was not made lightly. My

1:18:28responsibility is not only to help the

1:18:30city use its CDBG resources to address

1:18:33community needs, but also to protect the

1:18:36city's ability to continue receiving

1:18:38those federal funds. When the city

1:18:41accepts CDBG funding, it also accepts

1:18:44responsibility for ensuring that those

1:18:46funds are administered in accordance

1:18:48with federal requirements. Failure to do

1:18:51so can expose the city to corrective

1:18:53action, repayment of funds, and in more

1:18:56serious circumstances, it can jeopardize

1:18:58future CDBG funding.

1:19:01Um, I have not found any other subreient

1:19:04in similar circumstances.

1:19:07When the environmental review process

1:19:09entered its comment period with the

1:19:10notice of intent to request release of

1:19:13funds, I did so in good faith and with

1:19:16the expectation that the project would

1:19:18continue through the normal CDBG

1:19:20process. However, the public comments

1:19:23received during that process raised

1:19:25concerns that warranted a closer look at

1:19:27the overall feasibility of the project.

1:19:30In response, I conducted additional

1:19:33research and reviewed the project more

1:19:35broadly, not simply from an

1:19:37environmental standpoint, but also in

1:19:39terms of its documentation, procurement,

1:19:42contractual obligations, project

1:19:44readiness, and compliance with CDBG

1:19:46requirements. What I found led me to

1:19:49believe that council should have the

1:19:51opportunity to consider these facts

1:19:53before the city proceeds with the

1:19:54request for release of funds. In

1:19:57reaching this recommendation, I focused

1:19:59on five fundamental questions. One,

1:20:02programmatic. Is the project capable of

1:20:05achieving its CDBG objective within a

1:20:07reasonable time frame? Multiple funding

1:20:10sources have been identified for

1:20:12renovation of this space over several

1:20:14years. While the proposed renovation has

1:20:16not been completed, this history

1:20:19together with the absence of renovation

1:20:21has not been completed. Oh, I'm sorry.

1:20:23This history together with the absence

1:20:25of a clearly demonstrated timeline for

1:20:27completion and operation of the proposed

1:20:30program led me to question whether the

1:20:32project is sufficiently defined and

1:20:34whether the organization has the

1:20:36resources necessary to complete it and

1:20:39achieve the intended CDBG objective.

1:20:42Two, procurement has the organization

1:20:45demonstrated adherence to procurement

1:20:47standards. The quest the review

1:20:50identified recurring deficiencies in

1:20:52procurement and supporting documentation

1:20:55despite repeated reminders regarding the

1:20:57city's requirement to obtain at least

1:20:59three quotations for purchases exceeding

1:21:02$10,000 and to follow the city's

1:21:04purchasing policy. Those deficiencies

1:21:07remain unresolved.

1:21:09Three, contractual. As the organization

1:21:11fulfilled its contractual obligations,

1:21:14the review identified multiple instances

1:21:17in which the subreient did not

1:21:19demonstrate adherence to obligations

1:21:21established in the executed agreement.

1:21:24Based on these unresolved contractual

1:21:26performance and documentation concerns,

1:21:28I determined that extending the

1:21:30agreement was not warranted.

1:21:33Four, compliance. Can the city

1:21:35reasonably assure that the project can

1:21:37be implemented in compliance with

1:21:39applicable federal guidelines? For

1:21:42purposes of this review, compliance

1:21:44includes not only meeting individual

1:21:46program requirements, but also the

1:21:48city's ability to provide appropriate

1:21:50oversight and assurance that those

1:21:53requirements will continue to be met

1:21:54throughout the life of the project. The

1:21:57expanded review identified concerns

1:21:59regard regarding the integrity of past

1:22:01performance, including an instance that

1:22:04conveyed the appearance of impropriety.

1:22:07The organization's ability to

1:22:09demonstrate achievement of the intended

1:22:10CDBG national objective through reliable

1:22:13measurable meth methods is also a

1:22:16concern. Adequate procedures and

1:22:18documentation have not been demonstrated

1:22:20for identifying eligible beneficiaries,

1:22:24verifying eligibility, and measuring

1:22:26outcomes necessary to establish

1:22:28compliance with the applicable national

1:22:30objective.

1:22:32Five, implementation.

1:22:34Is there a defined and reliable path to

1:22:37completion and provision of services

1:22:39based on the programmatic, procurement,

1:22:41contractual, and compliance concerns

1:22:44identified? I do not have sufficient

1:22:46assurance that the project can be

1:22:47successfully implemented or that the

1:22:50proposed workforce development program

1:22:52can be sustained. The project has not

1:22:54progressed to implementation within the

1:22:56established performance period

1:23:00not and required reporting and

1:23:02supporting documentation remain

1:23:03outstanding. Procurement and contractual

1:23:06obligations have not been consistently

1:23:08demonstrated and the project has relied

1:23:11on multiple potential funding sources

1:23:13without a clearly demonstrated

1:23:14sustainable funding plan. Recent

1:23:17reductions in grant and aid funding

1:23:19along with the denial of economic

1:23:21development grant funding also raise

1:23:23additional concerns regarding the

1:23:25sustainability of the proposed program.

1:23:28Collectively, these factors indicate

1:23:30that there is not currently a

1:23:31sufficiently defined or reliable path to

1:23:33completion of the renovation and

1:23:36provision of the proposed services. My

1:23:39responsibility is to ensure that the

1:23:41city's federal funds are used for

1:23:42eligible activities supported by

1:23:44adequate documentation and administered

1:23:47in accordance with the requirements that

1:23:49come with accepting those funds. For the

1:23:51reasons I've outlined tonight, I

1:23:53recommend that the current CDBG out

1:23:55allocation to this project be withdrawn

1:23:57and I'm happy to answer any questions.

1:24:02>> Thank you very much. Uh questions. Um

1:24:05Mrs. Thorn, Councilwoman,

1:24:08>> thank you and I I appreciate that

1:24:11information. That was certainly helpful.

1:24:12That's the first I've heard of it. I

1:24:14think if I had been able to review that

1:24:15beforehand, I would feel more

1:24:17comfortable um in making this decision.

1:24:20Um based on what's in the in the packet,

1:24:23um seeing phase one environmental site

1:24:25assessment,

1:24:27my initial thought on the issue was that

1:24:29there were contaminants within the

1:24:31building, you know, lead, asbestous,

1:24:32what have you, and that the um the

1:24:35renovation could not proceed or at least

1:24:37could not proceed in the budget that had

1:24:39been outlined initially. I thought maybe

1:24:41there needed to be some environmental

1:24:43remediation before moving forward um and

1:24:46that the project could not be completed

1:24:48um with $40,000. So that was I came into

1:24:51this with with the wrong impression. Um

1:24:54so the information that you have have

1:24:56provided um

1:24:59so they did not get three quotes. They

1:25:01should have gotten three quotes and they

1:25:03did not. Is that one of the issues?

1:25:05>> That that is correct.

1:25:06>> Did they get any quotes? There was one

1:25:08quote and I received every other page of

1:25:12that quote with the invoice.

1:25:14>> Okay. So it insufficient documentation

1:25:17um did not get the quote needed. You

1:25:18mentioned the executed agreement and um

1:25:21contractual obl obligations were not

1:25:24met. Could you review what those

1:25:25obligations were that were not met?

1:25:30The agreement required the subreient to

1:25:32administrator administer the project in

1:25:35a manner satisfactory to the city and

1:25:37consistent with applicable standards.

1:25:40The agreement required submission of

1:25:41monthly progress reports. None were

1:25:43received despite my requests on February

1:25:465th 26 and August 136.

1:25:50The agreement provides that substandard

1:25:53performance as determined by the grantee

1:25:55that is us constitutes non-compliance.

1:25:58If action to correct such substandard

1:26:01performance is not taken by the

1:26:02subreient within a reasonable time,

1:26:06contract suspension or termination

1:26:08procedures will be initiated. The

1:26:10performance period ended June 30th and

1:26:13no permit applications for the project

1:26:15had been received by the city prior to

1:26:17the expiration.

1:26:19To this day, I don't think there are any

1:26:21permits still. The agreement required

1:26:24compliance with applicable federal,

1:26:26state, and local laws, regulations, and

1:26:28policies. The subreient did not

1:26:31demonstrate compliance with the

1:26:32requirements of either the city's

1:26:34purchasing policy or uniform guidance at

1:26:372CFR part 200.

1:26:42Thank you for that. So, you did not

1:26:43receive monthly reports. There were no

1:26:45permits that had been applied for as of

1:26:47June 30th. Um, and have you had any um

1:26:51conversations or meetings with the

1:26:53applicant to

1:26:55>> Yes.

1:26:55>> push them to move forward?

1:26:57>> Yes, I met with him on May 26th. Um, let

1:27:01me see where is that.

1:27:04And I followed up with an email. Um

1:27:06there were several emails that I had um

1:27:09for the procurement part of it. October

1:27:137th, I mentioned the requirement to have

1:27:17purchases exceeding 10,000 to have three

1:27:20quotes. I also mentioned that in my

1:27:22follow-up email on May 27th. I

1:27:25reinforced the requirement to follow the

1:27:27city's purchasing policy on May 27th and

1:27:31the 10th of June. Um,

1:27:38and I and and I have several emails

1:27:40throughout where I had tried to help him

1:27:43push this to get it to go forward and it

1:27:46it just was not he a lot of times I got

1:27:49ignored.

1:27:51>> Thank you. I I appreciate that. Um, I

1:27:54was disappointed to see this on the

1:27:55agenda. Um I certainly was hoping that

1:27:57the money would be spent uh as it was

1:28:00intended um for a project that we had

1:28:02reviewed and wanted to pursue. Um so

1:28:04it's disappointing that all of these

1:28:06conditions have not been met to to

1:28:08continue with the funding. So um I with

1:28:11that I I yield.

1:28:13>> C Thank you. Um Councilwoman uh

1:28:17Councilman Bogard, you're recognized.

1:28:19>> Thank you. Um thank you acting council

1:28:22president. Um you made a statement about

1:28:24other source funding. Um could you

1:28:27clarify that? Like you you kind of

1:28:30enumerated that with other with other

1:28:32topics. Can you clarify other source

1:28:35funding?

1:28:35>> The organization was previously awarded

1:28:3840,000 in ARPA funding for the same or

1:28:40substantially similar renovation project

1:28:43described as renovation of a bowling

1:28:45alley to provide space for case

1:28:47management and counseling.

1:28:49Uh, according to the ARPA application,

1:28:52the members were to contribute matching

1:28:54funds of $152,978.

1:28:58Documentation only shows $1,642

1:29:02in matching dispersements.

1:29:04The 2025 CDBG application identified the

1:29:08church endowment as the source for

1:29:10matching funds. In a subsequent

1:29:12conversation, Dr. Hajj indicated that

1:29:14the endowment would have to be used to

1:29:16complete the project if suff sufficient

1:29:19grant funding was not received and

1:29:20acknowledged that this would not be

1:29:22sustainable long term since the revenues

1:29:25from the endowment were funding its

1:29:26operations.

1:29:28At the leanfinn committee meeting of

1:29:30February 26, 2026, Dr. Hajj mentioned

1:29:33that they had received money from a

1:29:35private foundation to completely

1:29:37renovate a space that would be

1:29:38segregated for these different groups,

1:29:41mentioning neighborhood partners,

1:29:43Department of Labor, and Polytech to

1:29:45hold workshops and case management. No

1:29:48additional information was provided

1:29:50regarding money from a private

1:29:51foundation. In an email on April 6th,

1:29:552026, Dr. Hajj reported that the

1:29:57governor's office had funded a

1:29:59renovation project in the basement of

1:30:00People's Church in order to convert one

1:30:03large space into private offices and a

1:30:05conference room for training and case

1:30:07management. I called the governor's

1:30:09office and they had no knowledge of this

1:30:11funding commitment. They did mention the

1:30:14grant in aid

1:30:16um which I looked up also uh but that's

1:30:20unrelated. The 2026 CDBG application

1:30:23identified the requested $40,000 as only

1:30:265% of an $800,000 project with the

1:30:30remaining $600,000 to be provided by

1:30:33other sources. Even if the full award

1:30:36was granted as proposed in the 2025 to

1:30:392029 consolidated plan, that would be

1:30:42$200,000 $40,000 for five years. I still

1:30:46felt that there should be more

1:30:48transparency about the other funding

1:30:50sources and that's all I have on that.

1:30:53>> Um, has there has there been any other

1:30:56inquiry about any other I think you just

1:30:59answered that but specifically funds

1:31:01from that that we may have allocated?

1:31:04Has there been any other questions about

1:31:07>> Yes, we allocated $153,978

1:31:11in the first ARPA round and of that

1:31:14$40,000 was for the renovations that

1:31:17we're talking about,

1:31:21but none of none of the money was spent

1:31:23on that.

1:31:27>> The money was spent.

1:31:28>> Yes, I have all the receipts. It was the

1:31:32showers, the kitchen,

1:31:35um the sprinkler system was the main

1:31:38thing. Um fire alarm and sprinkler

1:31:42system was the main expenses.

1:31:44>> Okay.

1:31:46>> Okay. Thank you. I I yield.

1:31:50>> Thank you. Which were renovations in

1:31:53fact that we had budgeted for. Is that

1:31:56correct?

1:31:57>> I'm sorry. Uh those were renovations

1:32:00that we had put in and authorized. Is

1:32:02that correct?

1:32:03>> Yes.

1:32:04>> All right. Thank you. Uh Dr. Sugler,

1:32:09thank you for recognizing me.

1:32:12So it sounds like um there was a lot of

1:32:14non-compliance.

1:32:16Um what what were they in compliant

1:32:19with? So what did they meet? What aim

1:32:22did they meet?

1:32:25>> What were they compliant with? Correct.

1:32:36>> I can't think of anything.

1:32:39Timing um the this the documentation was

1:32:44always um I always had to work with you

1:32:47know Dr. Hodgej to get the documentation

1:32:51up to where I needed it to be. Um, a lot

1:32:55of times I was bombarded with dozens of

1:32:59pages of of stuff that I had to go

1:33:01through and sort through. Like it was I

1:33:05I honestly I can't think of anything

1:33:09other than putting in the application

1:33:11and their application for the 26 funding

1:33:14was over two weeks too late.

1:33:18>> Sounds like it was very challenging. Do

1:33:20you encounter these kinds of uh of um

1:33:25are you confronted with these kinds of

1:33:28uh encounters with other organizations

1:33:30of similar that are that we've provided

1:33:33money to?

1:33:34>> In other words, is this normal or

1:33:35abnormal?

1:33:36>> This is very abnormal. I do have like

1:33:38you know I'll correct somebody when they

1:33:40send me something that's wrong. I'll

1:33:42I'll say send me the right thing and you

1:33:44know I'll tell them what they need. But

1:33:47um I in several instances I've been I've

1:33:50repeatedly had to ask for some the same

1:33:53thing over and and didn't get it still.

1:33:56>> So the line of communication was was not

1:33:58um was not effective as far as like

1:34:02>> I just I never received responses a lot

1:34:04of times.

1:34:07>> Okay. Because I'm I'm I'm very concerned

1:34:09about that. Um

1:34:12because city council

1:34:14has been depicted as well as the mayor

1:34:17as being lazy thinkers if I'm if I can

1:34:20quote it right lazy thinkers as last

1:34:24week we were referred to as lazy

1:34:26thinkers and you know at at some point I

1:34:30was saying to myself are we lazy

1:34:32thinkers are you know you know but I'm

1:34:35but then I'm hearing all this and I'm

1:34:38like wow

1:34:40you know, is is this something that it's

1:34:43because one person doesn't hold

1:34:45themselves accountable

1:34:47for their lack of? And so I'm very

1:34:50surprised to hear that although we're

1:34:52referred to as lazy thinkers and not

1:34:54making educated decisions,

1:34:56um I don't know what the other side is.

1:34:58We're going to hear I'm sure we're going

1:34:59to hear from from Pastor Hajj. Um but it

1:35:03doesn't sound like um we should

1:35:05definitely sounds like we should

1:35:06definitely approve a staff

1:35:08recommendation. Um

1:35:11so in my final statement or final uh

1:35:15comments

1:35:17um

1:35:18how

1:35:20was or what was the criteria used to

1:35:24determine the merit of the lack of

1:35:27sustainability?

1:35:30And has that been vetted or analyzed by

1:35:33legal opinion by our solicitor?

1:35:37>> The lack of sustainability. I do not

1:35:40think that he

1:35:41>> Yeah. So you you said that um in your in

1:35:44your view that they could not sustain it

1:35:47was based on all that you already have

1:35:49mentioned that you know they could not

1:35:52sustain there was there was a lack of

1:35:54sustainability um plan in my view. Maybe

1:35:57I might interpret it wrong, but my

1:35:59question is what was the criteria? Was

1:36:01all this the criteria or was there

1:36:03additional criteria that you used to

1:36:06assess that they could not sustain or

1:36:08continue to do this um program? And was

1:36:11it and was it vetted through our city

1:36:14solicitor to make sure that you know um

1:36:18the justifications have legal merit?

1:36:23I I did vet it through the the city

1:36:25solicitor and he did um you know have

1:36:28his questions but there was no

1:36:32information about the sustainability um

1:36:34issue if that's the case. I mean I'm

1:36:38only going by what was told to me by Dr.

1:36:41Hajj that it was not sustainable.

1:36:45>> Okay. So his own admittancees. Okay. So,

1:36:47thank you very much. And I know Debbie,

1:36:48throughout the years, you've done a

1:36:49great job. Uh, first starting with with

1:36:51the clerk's office, your work has always

1:36:53been impeccable. So,

1:36:54>> thank you.

1:36:54>> I don't question your your work through

1:36:56my questions. I'm just want to make sure

1:36:58that we do all our eyes, crossed all our

1:37:00tees, and not have demonstrated being a

1:37:02lazy thinker because I don't appreciate

1:37:04being called a lazy thinker.

1:37:05>> I don't know where that came from. It

1:37:07came from Pastor Haj at the ACLU uh

1:37:11>> panelist last week which which you know

1:37:14>> I waited to address that so I'm going

1:37:16address it now in my city council

1:37:18capacity. None of us up here are lazy

1:37:20thinkers. I yield.

1:37:21>> Um I I just want to add one more thing

1:37:23about what do uh Councilman Bogerty was

1:37:26asking about um with the booted and

1:37:28suited. Uh that would be a significant

1:37:32amendment to the action plan. It still

1:37:36would take time and and a lot of

1:37:38resources. So,

1:37:39>> thank you. I just wanted to vet all

1:37:42opportun resources. Thank you. Thank you

1:37:44for allowing me to interrupt. Thank you,

1:37:45council.

1:37:47>> Thank you. Thank you.

1:37:49>> Okay. Uh Mr. Mayor,

1:37:52>> thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Brian,

1:37:55just for

1:37:56uh the information points,

1:37:59are the standards for everyone across

1:38:03the board the same as

1:38:08is there a maintenance of standards

1:38:10across the board for all CDG, CD,

1:38:13whatever it is?

1:38:14>> CDBG.

1:38:15>> Yes. Say that 10 times real fast.

1:38:19uh across the board. Are the are the

1:38:22requirements the same reporting

1:38:24accountability across the board?

1:38:26>> Yes.

1:38:27>> And any other applicant that would come

1:38:29along, those requirements would be the

1:38:32same across the board.

1:38:33>> They would

1:38:34>> the timets

1:38:37uh the information that was requested.

1:38:40>> Yes. Actually, the timetable is

1:38:42something I didn't mention, but um there

1:38:46was

1:38:48um in the 2025 CDBG agreement um which

1:38:54was executed on 20 on September 24th

1:38:56with a performance deadline of June

1:38:5830th, 2026. The application stated that

1:39:02the work would take no longer than three

1:39:03months. And that was one of my issues

1:39:06was that it didn't even get started

1:39:08before the it expired.

1:39:12But yes, they all have the same

1:39:13requirements, whatever the agreement

1:39:16states.

1:39:17>> And this is public information.

1:39:19>> Yes.

1:39:23>> Thank you, Councilman Lewis.

1:39:33>> Yeah. Where did you wave?

1:39:37Okay. I can't hear you, sir.

1:39:45>> Uh,

1:39:46>> can you hear me? Now,

1:39:50>> I would just like to say that um you

1:39:52know, I find it very um disheartening

1:39:55and uh disappointment disappointing that

1:39:58um they were not in compliance. Um you

1:40:01know, for um somebody that wanted the uh

1:40:04grant money so bad not to follow the

1:40:07guidelines and the rules is is appalling

1:40:10and I would just like to put that into

1:40:11the record. Thank you.

1:40:14>> Thank you. Now, now we will um of course

1:40:19hear from the applicant. Um thank you.

1:40:25What's there? Councilwoman, do you have

1:40:28another question?

1:40:29>> Um just I was going to suggest we hear

1:40:32from the applicant, but then also point

1:40:33out that we no longer have a quorum. We

1:40:35only have five and we need six. So the

1:40:37item will have to be deferred.

1:40:39>> You are correct. Um we do have

1:40:43technically a quorum, but we do not have

1:40:44quum. from the pass to vote which

1:40:46requires six. Um you are absolutely

1:40:49correct. Um the uh

1:40:53let's hear from the applicant because we

1:40:55want to get the response on the record

1:40:58and then uh we will recognize that it's

1:41:01a uh as a quorum call and uh adjourn it.

1:41:15I'll I'll step out of my normal priority

1:41:17to say she is really smart and she's a

1:41:22terrific asset to the city as a taxpayer

1:41:24and do over. I'm glad you have her

1:41:26looking out for the money and I'm glad

1:41:28that you all as a council are making

1:41:30sure that folks are doing what they're

1:41:32supposed to do with the money and that

1:41:34they have proper accounting uh

1:41:37practices, proper financial

1:41:40uh financial control policies, etc. So,

1:41:43I'm all for it [clears throat]

1:41:47and uh I don't mind. I think you should

1:41:50drill your subreients and make darn sure

1:41:53that everything's being done properly.

1:41:56Um,

1:41:58that's part A. Now barb is I feel

1:42:01blindsided because in fact the last I

1:42:03recall hearing from Miss O'Brien.

1:42:07In fact we got we can't have been that

1:42:10terrible because we got reimbursement

1:42:12from some of that uh from some some of

1:42:15that block grant money for we didn't we

1:42:18we we've already got some we must have

1:42:20done something right. I can tell you,

1:42:24and

1:42:27this may not matter to some folks, but I

1:42:29don't lie. Even if it gets me in

1:42:30trouble, I don't lie. And I can tell you

1:42:33that there we have not received one

1:42:35penny of federal money through the city.

1:42:39We've never received any city money. We

1:42:41haven't received one penny of ARPA money

1:42:44or uh block grant money that was not

1:42:48spent appropriately correctly. It would

1:42:52not have been reimbursed by the city if

1:42:54we had not provided the receipts in a

1:42:58timely fashion.

1:43:00And

1:43:01uh any city representative of the city

1:43:05can come down and do a site visit and

1:43:06look to see in fact

1:43:10um so this is the timeline. We wrote the

1:43:12proposal. You liked it. You approved it.

1:43:14The mayor signed it in September. Signed

1:43:16the contract. We started work right

1:43:19away. actually uh um Tracy, this was

1:43:23when Tracy was still with you and uh

1:43:25Tracy did a site visit with Miss

1:43:27O'Brien. They both came down

1:43:30and u Tracy at least said she was really

1:43:33impressed with what we were doing.

1:43:36I thought Miss O'Brien was too.

1:43:39Tracy said, "Oh, look, you got some

1:43:41peeling paint. You might need to have

1:43:42lead paint done, but you can pay for

1:43:45that with the CBDG." Okay. So, we hired

1:43:48uh uh this was extremely timely. We we

1:43:51hired Harvard Environmental to do the

1:43:54lead paint testing. It did. It said yes,

1:43:57it's positive. You need remediation. So,

1:43:59then we paid for the remediation

1:44:02and then later there was a reinspection

1:44:04to make sure there was no lead paint. We

1:44:06did all that was done in a timely

1:44:09fashion. Submits receipts were

1:44:11submitted. The report was submitted. And

1:44:15then I think Miss Harvey was still with

1:44:17us. Um either Miss Harvey or Miss

1:44:20O'Brien said, "Oh, uh oh, you need a

1:44:21tier one environmental review." Okay.

1:44:23So, we hired a company uh we hired the

1:44:26company that that the city suggested who

1:44:29that did a tier one environmental

1:44:31review. Of course, this took another

1:44:32month or so and it came back all right.

1:44:35So, we submitted that receipt or

1:44:36actually the report went directly to the

1:44:38city in that case. So, we did everything

1:44:42we were supposed to and then we uh oh,

1:44:44by the way, during the site visit uh

1:44:49when Ms. O'Brien and and Ms. Harvey came

1:44:52down and looked at the space that was to

1:44:54be remodeled

1:44:57and uh Ms. Harvey said, now she was

1:45:01still the legal representative. She was

1:45:02still representing the city. Yes, she

1:45:04was still an employee of the city, the

1:45:06community development manager of the

1:45:07city. Correct.

1:45:09She said, "You do not need three

1:45:13bids because the amount is under

1:45:15$50,000."

1:45:19The city employee told me that.

1:45:23So, what we did was we got we actually

1:45:25had three people look at it. One person

1:45:28looked at it and said, "No, this is too

1:45:29small. We're not going to mess with

1:45:30this. My daughter can do it." So his

1:45:33daughter came and did and gave us a bid

1:45:35and but we weren't satisfied. We didn't

1:45:37feel confident with the people she

1:45:40brought. So I called the Downtown Dover

1:45:42Partnership and said, "Do you have

1:45:43anybody you recommend?" Yes. Downtown Do

1:45:45Partnership recommended a contractor. We

1:45:50signed a contract with the contractor

1:45:52and paid for the uh for the first phase

1:45:56which was the demolition of the existing

1:45:58bowling alley. It was quite a hu there

1:46:00were several layers of hundred-year-old

1:46:02bowling alley and it was it took quite a

1:46:03bit. Uh she completed that.

1:46:08We submitted the cancel check to the

1:46:11city for reimbursement

1:46:14and it took a little while but finally

1:46:16Miss O'Brien said, "Well, I'm not sure

1:46:18if you're going to get all of that." And

1:46:21she said, "Because there's been such a

1:46:23loud public outcry against you." That

1:46:25was what she said on the phone.

1:46:29That loud public outcry, I imagine, was

1:46:32those 17 form letters that you all

1:46:34received in in uh January. And and I

1:46:37think we've already demonstrated that

1:46:42almost none of that has anything to do

1:46:43with us. It was complaints about crime

1:46:45downtown, but uh we certainly have quite

1:46:49a large public outcry or public uh cry

1:46:52in our favor.

1:46:55We'll see.

1:46:58Um

1:47:02the 40,000 from the past, yes, we use

1:47:04that. We hired Becker Morgan to design

1:47:05the plans for this new center for

1:47:08community development. They're

1:47:09expensive.

1:47:11We've got the receipts to prove it.

1:47:13There is nothing we have ever done, even

1:47:16a penny, which is not accounted for,

1:47:20which was not done in a timely fashion,

1:47:22which cannot be proven to date if you

1:47:25audit us.

1:47:27We have not been non-compliant with a

1:47:29single item. Not one item. Yes. When we

1:47:35started to submit receipts for the

1:47:37programmatic as part of the block grant

1:47:42and we also submitted receipts for the

1:47:44ARPA money that we the third round of

1:47:47ARPA money we received. Yes. There were

1:47:50many times. Boy, she worked so hard.

1:47:52There must have been really hard for

1:47:54you. all of these documents and there

1:47:56were many back and forths in which he

1:47:57said this isn't good enough I need more

1:47:59right so we sent more um nope that's not

1:48:03enough we need more uh so we sent more

1:48:06uh so we complied with everything yes it

1:48:08was a timely process and uh as I said to

1:48:11her in an email I said wow you are

1:48:13really the hardest working person in the

1:48:15city because you must be bombarded with

1:48:17so much stuff

1:48:20uh but we supplied everything that was

1:48:21required

1:48:23we in the past have been compliant and

1:48:25as you know how city money works even

1:48:27the pass through money. We can't get a

1:48:29penny until we've proven to you that we

1:48:31spent it appropriately.

1:48:34So to say that uh the money we got four

1:48:37years ago we didn't spend properly or

1:48:39there was something uncomp non-compliant

1:48:44it it flies in the face of common sense

1:48:46and reason. You would you would have

1:48:49told us four years ago if you were

1:48:50unsatisfied with that. So uh we are

1:48:55asking

1:48:57we spent the money

1:49:00under contract and according to the

1:49:02terms

1:49:04uh

1:49:07and we expect reimbursement and if

1:49:10there's a single item that you can prove

1:49:14has been not according to procedure or

1:49:18not according to the federal the CFR

1:49:22then By all means, it is your

1:49:23responsibility to withhold the money.

1:49:26But uh

1:49:28vague

1:49:30hints is not sufficient.

1:49:34So uh I ask you to fulfill your

1:49:37obligation,

1:49:39reimburse us the rest of the money for

1:49:41which we that we already spent according

1:49:44to the agreement

1:49:47and uh let us and and by the way it is

1:49:50very sustainable. Howard Stafford, you

1:49:52know, is ready to start that workforce

1:49:53development program as as soon as we

1:49:55build the area. And we got a promise.

1:49:58We're not going to say the name. Don't

1:49:59anybody say who it was, but we got a

1:50:01promise this afternoon for 350,000 from

1:50:05someone else. We got 100,000 from, by

1:50:08the way, she was talking about private

1:50:09funding. Yeah, we got 100,000 of DuPont

1:50:11money. And the DuPonts do not give money

1:50:14to anyone who is not really solid. So,

1:50:17uh, uh, you know, there's plenty of

1:50:19money to continue the program as soon as

1:50:22we can get this physical space,

1:50:26uh, built according to Becker Morgan

1:50:29designs and according to the contract.

1:50:31Thank you.

1:50:32>> Thank you.

1:50:34>> Questions, Councilman Bogerty and

1:50:37Councilwoman Arnard.

1:50:38>> Thank you. Um I [clears throat] would

1:50:40like to say

1:50:43not even reviewing but I I I think you

1:50:46gave some very specifics so that it was

1:50:49detailed to me. My other question is so

1:50:53you have work done have all your

1:50:54contractors been paid already or do you

1:50:58have outstanding contracts that required

1:51:00to be paid that's dependent on this or

1:51:02or have have you met your other

1:51:04obligations? the the contract that we

1:51:07signed with the contractor who was

1:51:10recommended by Downtown Over Partnership

1:51:13uh is

1:51:16that work has stopped because she can't

1:51:18she won't do anymore unless she gets

1:51:19paid. And so uh the city withholding

1:51:22this money from us has basically stopped

1:51:24that. So when Ms. O'Brien says, "Well,

1:51:27you haven't given us uh um updates."

1:51:29Well, there's no update. No work has

1:51:31happened uh since we did the demolition,

1:51:34submitted the receipt for reimbursement

1:51:37and and reimbursement has not been

1:51:38forthcoming.

1:51:39>> So So you you by your own and excuse my

1:51:46>> uh they they're much highly more they

1:51:48more educated than my little master's

1:51:50degree have himself. Um my question is

1:51:53at the very basic level you indicated

1:51:55that you you received some substantial

1:51:58funding for from other areas. Um you

1:52:02just stated that DuPont and then 200 or

1:52:06300 some other monies from somewhere

1:52:07else and then we discussed some other

1:52:10funding. Uh so so why is it that

1:52:17absent

1:52:18which amounts to what which what doesn't

1:52:21amount to a significant portion of the

1:52:24pie uh is a good portion of the pie but

1:52:26not significant. Why can't you continue

1:52:29that work until with the other funding?

1:52:33We will once that once we get that 350

1:52:36but uh um but the city owes us $30,000.

1:52:40we owe you.

1:52:42>> You're contracted with us and and we

1:52:44fulfilled the

1:52:46>> we fulfilled every bit of our

1:52:49of our uh requirements. So when the city

1:52:53reimburses us for that money, then we'll

1:52:56go on. I I think what you're asking is

1:52:58this that uh what if the city says no,

1:53:01we're going to reneig on our contract.

1:53:03We're not going to reimburse you for

1:53:04that money. Okay, we'll do it. We'll

1:53:08we'll continue with the project. Uh, as

1:53:10as we've just said, we have other

1:53:12funding, but gosh, I sure would like the

1:53:15city to

1:53:17uh while doing its due diligence, I

1:53:20would also like it to honor its

1:53:22contracts, honor its promises,

1:53:25and to work with us. You know, I

1:53:27remember that it was only a few years

1:53:29ago when we used to work together, when

1:53:31the city and people's church were we

1:53:34collaborated to try to get people off

1:53:36the streets. That's what we want.

1:53:38>> Okay. I I don't I want to Well, I I hear

1:53:40you, but I want to stay on my track. I

1:53:41don't I'm not going to go down that

1:53:43finish.

1:53:44>> So, no, I have I have specific questions

1:53:46today.

1:53:46>> I look forward to the day.

1:53:47>> So So, I look forward to the day. We're

1:53:49going to answer the questions

1:53:50specifically. We're not going to do that

1:53:52song and dance. You know, I'm one of the

1:53:54most respectful people here. So, let's

1:53:56let's stay here. I I I get the

1:53:58sentimental work. I I have given to

1:54:01people's place. I give nauseium and I

1:54:04don't take pictures. That's my problem.

1:54:06So now here's my So let's get back to to

1:54:09this without the the the the

1:54:11heartstrings.

1:54:13Let's talk about these numbers. My

1:54:15question is

1:54:17what if if all this other funding exists

1:54:20and if you are demonstrating good faith

1:54:22and and our who you who you described as

1:54:25an excellent employee came in and say,

1:54:28"Hey, they're still using their funding

1:54:30to move this project along." And then it

1:54:33was brought back to us to say, "Hey,

1:54:35they're using these resources to their

1:54:37other resources to bring the project. So

1:54:39if you have all of this other money and

1:54:42all these other champions, why why does

1:54:45the project have to stop now with us

1:54:48with $40,000? I'm not not a drop in the

1:54:51bucket, but at the at the totality of

1:54:53the project, you you stated that there

1:54:56are other monies that can be used and

1:54:57you're not using them for to to help the

1:55:00community for which we all love, for

1:55:02which we all hope that one day turn it

1:55:04around. I am a child of an individual

1:55:07who was an addict.

1:55:09My father does AA meetings as part of

1:55:11his recovery now. So, I'm sensitive to

1:55:15that. So, so I that I want y'all to know

1:55:18my heart goes out to everybody, but I'm

1:55:20a child of that. So, I definitely have a

1:55:24issue that if you're if you if we're not

1:55:26using the money for real rehabilitation,

1:55:29if this we're just dressing up offices,

1:55:31if we're just putting nice fancy couches

1:55:33in, then I have an issue. I want to see

1:55:36individuals lives turned around as well.

1:55:39So, I'm going back to my other question.

1:55:42If you have resources that are there

1:55:46that you said that you can move the

1:55:47project along, why aren't you moving the

1:55:49project along?

1:55:50>> We will once once this 350 that we were

1:55:54promised comes through, we will move the

1:55:56project along. But um we also have done

1:55:59an awful lot and we do an awful lot. And

1:56:03as Mr. O'Brien points out, the loss of

1:56:04GIA funding was huge for us. We're going

1:56:07to keep getting addicts into treatment.

1:56:10We're going to keep feeding the elderly

1:56:12uh Monday through Friday. We're going to

1:56:14keep distributing toys and adult diapers

1:56:16through our free store. We're not going

1:56:18to stop that work. And we're going to

1:56:20keep taking people to the DMV and and

1:56:23helping them apply online for their

1:56:26birth certificates, etc. We're going to

1:56:27keep doing that. You're right. We're not

1:56:30destitute,

1:56:31but we are doing things on a shoestring.

1:56:35We are we do count every penny and and

1:56:39uh and we need every penny and we our

1:56:43plan forward has counted on the city

1:56:46fulfilling its part of the uh agenda.

1:56:48>> I yield for president. I I've made my

1:56:50decision. I yield.

1:56:53>> Thank you. Uh Councilwoman,

1:56:55>> thank you. So, I think this question may

1:56:56have been answered um in your response

1:56:58to Councilman Bogerty, but what amount

1:57:00have you been reimbursed to date from

1:57:02the from the 40,000?

1:57:07>> You know, that's a question that Debbie

1:57:09might know. Um I think you reimbursed us

1:57:12for the for the lead abatement and for

1:57:15the No, you didn't. Okay. So, none of

1:57:17that 40,000. The other that CBDG grant

1:57:20was like for 70 something part of it was

1:57:23program. I think the program has been

1:57:25reimbursed. The program aspect,

1:57:28what's it?

1:57:3022,700 has been reimbursed. So, we we

1:57:33can't be really non-compliant with the

1:57:35CBDG requirements because you reimbured

1:57:37is 22,700 for the program. You what has

1:57:40not been reimbured is the 40,000 which

1:57:43was intended for the renovation of the

1:57:45space.

1:57:46>> Understood. Um, and then the question

1:57:48regarding the monthly reports that you

1:57:50were supposed to submit. Um, did you not

1:57:52submit them or what what what happened

1:57:54with that?

1:57:55>> Well, we were I was in frequent uh email

1:57:58back and forth with Miss O'Brien

1:58:00throughout the spring

1:58:02um in the I was out of town for for uh

1:58:06uh uh uh part of June and all of July

1:58:09and part of August. But um there was no

1:58:12there was nothing happening to report

1:58:14about. uh we wrote and said here here's

1:58:17what we did. Will you please reimburse

1:58:19us for this money we spent on the

1:58:22demolition? Um it's not like there was

1:58:24an ongoing program and we needed to

1:58:26report on how many people were coming to

1:58:28the program etc. This was a a capital

1:58:30project was this 40,000 and once the

1:58:33demolition was there weren't reports to

1:58:35be filed

1:58:38>> were Miss O'Brien has her hand up. Were

1:58:41monthly reports required as um for the

1:58:44funding? Sorry.

1:58:47>> Thank you. Understood. I yield.

1:58:49>> And what what she said was is in the

1:58:52contract, Mrs. Ryan.

1:58:55Just to put it on the record.

1:58:58>> All right.

1:58:59>> Thank you.

1:59:00>> All right. So, I should have filed

1:59:01reports that said every month the

1:59:03demolition is done and the next month

1:59:05the demolition is done, awaiting

1:59:06reimbursement. The next month the

1:59:07demolition is done, awaiting

1:59:09reimbursement. I'm not sure what

1:59:10progress there was to report, but okay.

1:59:14>> I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm

1:59:16talking about the shelter operations

1:59:18project that you were reimbursed for.

1:59:21That's what I needed the monthly

1:59:22reporting for, and I needed the annual

1:59:24report to close it out to HUD by

1:59:27September 9th. I did not get a response.

1:59:30You said that you would provide that,

1:59:32but you never did.

1:59:32>> I don't remember receiving. No, I've

1:59:36been wrong lots of times. It could be

1:59:37that I'm just wrong, but I don't

1:59:39remember. I didn't know that I had to do

1:59:41that and I didn't I don't remember

1:59:42receiving a note from you.

1:59:44>> I believe you. I just don't I don't

1:59:46remember receiving that.

1:59:48>> Please make sure to close that out

1:59:50tomorrow.

1:59:51>> Thank you. Uh Dr. Sudler,

1:59:55>> thank you. I would like to point your

1:59:57attention to the

2:00:00recollection of a city employee

2:00:03allegedly stating that you do not need

2:00:05basically to be in compliance with the

2:00:07three quotes.

2:00:09When you heard or discovered that that

2:00:12was not the case, did you submit

2:00:15anything in writing to the city manager

2:00:18of your grievance and your point of

2:00:20interest uh to substantiate

2:00:24uh your claim?

2:00:26>> Yes, Mr. O'Brien asked me to send an

2:00:29explanation and I did and the

2:00:31explanation stated had three points I

2:00:34think. one that uh Tracy Harvey said we

2:00:37didn't need three bids, two we received

2:00:40two bids anyway but did not have

2:00:43confidence in the in the one and three

2:00:45that we decided then to go with a

2:00:47recommendation of downtown do

2:00:49partnership and to use its contractor.

2:00:52So that was in a letter that went and

2:00:54it's even yeah yeah I submitted that

2:00:57letter and I think I got an email from

2:00:59Mr. Brian said, "Okay, thank you for

2:01:01doing this. This is all set."

2:01:03>> Okay. Thank you. I'd [clears throat]

2:01:04like to refer um I would like to hear

2:01:07from staff. Miss Debbie, if you have any

2:01:09knowledge or any recollection of that um

2:01:13for the record, I would like to have

2:01:15that stated on the record.

2:01:19The procurement requirements were

2:01:21reiterated

2:01:23um multiple times. October 7th,

2:01:27um May 27th,

2:01:30June 10th. Um I requested the additional

2:01:33quote because I need that for proof in

2:01:36my records on June June 11th, but not no

2:01:40response was received. the executed

2:01:44requirement

2:01:46uh or the agreement that you um executed

2:01:49with your contractor and you only sent

2:01:51me every other page. It said on the one

2:01:55page that I did see that there was a

2:01:57deposit of $52,44

2:02:01required at the execution of that

2:02:04agreement. Uh, you submitted a check for

2:02:06$44,54

2:02:10with no explanation provided for the

2:02:12$7,500 shortage.

2:02:15Um,

2:02:19all I can say is I never heard Tracy

2:02:21Harvey say that three quotes are not

2:02:24required. She always reiterated to all

2:02:26of our subreients when I was in training

2:02:29that the city's purchasing policy

2:02:32requires three quotes if you're uh

2:02:34paying anybody over $10,000.

2:02:37And then if you go to the flowchart in

2:02:40our purchasing policy on page three, if

2:02:43you have anything over $50,000, it

2:02:46requires a sealed bid or an RFP process.

2:02:49That's all I ever heard her say. And I

2:02:51never heard her say anything else. And

2:02:53since this was under 50,000 then that

2:02:55wasn't required

2:02:56>> was 172 $178,000.

2:03:00>> She said at the time because the

2:03:03it's not the total project cost. It was

2:03:05that your amount awarded was 40,000 and

2:03:08that's below the threshold.

2:03:10>> Council President, acting council

2:03:12president Anderson, I would like to

2:03:13interrupt and and interject here. Uh it

2:03:16sounds like the due diligence lack is on

2:03:18your part. So um I know how I'm going to

2:03:21vote. I guilt.

2:03:25>> Thank you. Um

2:03:27you [clears throat] can um finish your

2:03:30statement uh Dr. Haj

2:03:33if you like. If not

2:03:35>> okay I'll just close up. I mean clearly

2:03:37you're you're you can't vote tonight but

2:03:40clearly when this comes up you're going

2:03:41to you're going to vote to res to reneig

2:03:43on that contract. That's okay. I

2:03:45understand. We'll continue to do this

2:03:47work. We want to

2:03:49>> please Dr. lodge continue.

2:03:52>> Oh, he was raising his hand.

2:03:54>> Yeah.

2:03:54>> Um,

2:03:57>> I just I just want you to

2:03:58>> He's just itching to say something. Why

2:04:00don't we let him before

2:04:01>> 8:00 the clock? Just want you We're

2:04:03closing. I just want you to go ahead.

2:04:04>> All right. Just say, look, we've um

2:04:09we've been at

2:04:12the city council and People's Church of

2:04:14Dover have been in a battle for nine

2:04:16months.

2:04:18And personally, I'm tired.

2:04:21I don't want to fight anymore.

2:04:23I understand that your reservations

2:04:26about the reimbursing the rest of the

2:04:28money, and we accept that.

2:04:31Moving forward for future projects.

2:04:35I hope that we can be at peace with the

2:04:37city council. We will continue to do all

2:04:40we can to be as compliant with every

2:04:43ordinance

2:04:45that you can come up with. We want to be

2:04:48in good relationship with the city and

2:04:51we want to do the right thing and we

2:04:54want to have good relationships with the

2:04:56staff and so um for them is for

2:05:02the battle in the spring in which I gave

2:05:05y'all a good talking to. Uh I hope you

2:05:07will forgive me. I forgive you for

2:05:11somehow relying on

2:05:13uh some kind of speurious testimony on

2:05:16which to make your decisions,

2:05:18but uh I I I

2:05:23just hope that when this is over

2:05:26that we can be willing to say that we

2:05:30all have the same goal in mind,

2:05:33which in our case is to get people off

2:05:35the streets

2:05:38to make downtown over more livable for

2:05:41everybody, not just for wealthy people

2:05:42coming in from outside, but for

2:05:45everybody

2:05:46and to make sure that city city money is

2:05:49spent in an appropriate

2:05:51uh manner.

2:05:53Um so I hope we can collaborate in the

2:05:58future.

2:05:59That's all.

2:06:02>> Thank you. We

2:06:04we have uh

2:06:07now we it was

2:06:09It is by procedure imperative that both

2:06:12sides would be allowed to

2:06:15uh give their opinion and to put put the

2:06:19statements on the record. Um Dr. Hajj uh

2:06:23whatever it is you have uh a couple more

2:06:26weeks to decide how to proceed to get

2:06:29get everything compliant because

2:06:33um Mrs. I would have done it but Mrs.

2:06:36aren't already done it and as uh uh

2:06:39noted and called quorum is there uh are

2:06:42there any committee members online

2:06:45uh seeing seeing none with a call of

2:06:48quorum having been made the the proper

2:06:51parliamentary procedure is to uh stand

2:06:55adjourn in this uh meeting

2:06:59sir

2:07:00>> we admit point of order uh

2:07:07Okay. This um we can't we got both sides

2:07:13on the record. We allowed questions. I

2:07:15mean what we don't we can't have a

2:07:18motion. So we can't have discussion. Now

2:07:21we the only proper procedure is to

2:07:23adjourn the is to adjourn the committee

2:07:27because we no longer have quorum.

2:07:30>> There are other people here who I think

2:07:32might like to speak to this issue. Will

2:07:33they be allowed to speak?

2:07:36>> The I mean we can I mean I don't we can

2:07:40go half the night but uh but we have no

2:07:44quorum uh of the committee.

2:07:48>> Well, I'm sorry Dr. Suddler, what did

2:07:49you say?

2:07:50>> Can you for

2:07:53for the record and so that our

2:07:56constituents who are here will

2:07:57understand why we don't have a quorum.

2:07:59Can you can you explain that?

2:08:01>> Absolutely. Um the quorum requires a

2:08:05majority of all members of the committee

2:08:09uh which there are 11. Uh we currently

2:08:12as Mrs. Z pointed out have five because

2:08:16we would have um quorum but uh

2:08:19Councilman Rosha had to recuse himself.

2:08:22Therefore we cannot vote. We cannot

2:08:24conduct any further business um once the

2:08:28uh uh we we were allowed to um hear that

2:08:34the other side to put it on the record

2:08:37but we can't really do anything else. We

2:08:40can't make a motion. We therefore we

2:08:42can't have discussions on on a motion

2:08:45because we can't make one. The only

2:08:47motion that is proper when quorum is

2:08:49allowed according to Robert's rules of

2:08:51order is adjournment.

2:08:54Thank you for u bringing that to our

2:08:56attention and explaining it to our

2:08:58constituents and everyone. Thank you.

2:09:01>> It would have been uh and the reason why

2:09:04the he was allowed is because according

2:09:08to Robert's rules, it would have been a

2:09:10manifest injustice and and unfair and so

2:09:14therefore he would be allowed to put it

2:09:16on the record. Um that's in that way

2:09:19both sides are on the record. Um all

2:09:23right. Um the meeting parks, recreation,

2:09:26community enhancement is adjourned.

2:09:31And thank you all for being here. And if

2:09:35uh anyone um

2:09:38wish and wishes to uh put anything on

2:09:41the record, I would encourage you to do

2:09:43so. I would encourage you to email city

2:09:46clerk

2:09:47at

2:09:50dode

2:09:52gov and um I want to encourage you to do

2:09:55so. Uh thank you very much. That brings

2:09:59us to the safety advisory and

2:10:02transportation committee. Uh and I turn

2:10:05it over to uh Councilman Andre Bogerty.

2:10:11>> Thank you, Council President. Uh I move

2:10:13for the adoption of the agenda for the

2:10:15safety advisory and transportation

2:10:17committee.

2:10:17>> So moved.

2:10:20>> It's been moved. Uh yes, let's see. I

2:10:23second it.

2:10:24>> It's been properly moved and second. Are

2:10:25you ready for the question? All those in

2:10:27favor signify by saying I

2:10:29>> by consent. The motion carries. Um item

2:10:31number one, update on the safety

2:10:33concerns on East Locker Street. Uh Jason

2:10:36Lion, our assistant city manager. Um I

2:10:39called him and I also wait for my uh

2:10:43committee member to join us. Greetings,

2:10:45doctor. How you doing?

2:10:47>> Doing well.

2:10:48>> Thank you. I apologize for not giving

2:10:49you super time, but thank you for your

2:10:52patience as well and serving so

2:10:54diligently. Um, assistant city manager

2:10:57is yours.

2:10:58>> Uh, good evening, chair, fellow

2:11:00committee members, council, mayor, and

2:11:03team do. My name is Jason Lion,

2:11:05assistant city manager with the city of

2:11:07Dover. I come before you tonight with an

2:11:09update on a um a safety topic that we

2:11:11had um most recently in January on East

2:11:15Locker Street. So, just a recap of what

2:11:18we had talked about back then. Uh, the

2:11:20committee provided direction to our team

2:11:23to put up a temporary closure on East

2:11:24Lockerman Street as you're heading east

2:11:26like past Dunk Bunk uh Burger King. The

2:11:29road has had a temporary closure uh

2:11:32since July when we performed some

2:11:33studies on the street. Um, and then we

2:11:36are going to provide a long-term

2:11:37solution uh to this to this body. Uh,

2:11:40next slide, please.

2:11:42So, again, the temporary closure started

2:11:44in July. We put this information out. We

2:11:47hand delivered these notices to each

2:11:49individual within the area of concern.

2:11:51We put this on social media and the next

2:11:53slide will show the affected area. Just

2:11:55as a recap, if go to the next slide,

2:11:57please. Thank you. Uh all of East

2:11:59Lockman Street out to um Little Creek

2:12:02Road, I'm sorry, Division Street, uh

2:12:04Mitchner and Lachman Court. So, this is

2:12:07the area of concern. Over a hundred uh

2:12:09residents are in that area. Uh next

2:12:11slide. Uh okay. So, one of the topics

2:12:14that we brought up in the original

2:12:15discussion of closing this road was what

2:12:17kind of impact would it have on

2:12:18emergency access, emergency vehicles.

2:12:21So, what we have uh in front of you is

2:12:23two different routes from Robins Hose

2:12:25number two to uh different locations

2:12:28within Lockerman Street with the

2:12:30closure.

2:12:31So, you'll notice the next slide shows

2:12:34about a 1 to two minute differential to

2:12:37get to the location um with the light

2:12:39colored uh Google map uh direction

2:12:41there.

2:12:43Keep that in mind as we continue this

2:12:44discussion. Next slide, please.

2:12:48So, considerations for what we were

2:12:50doing. We uh partnered with other team

2:12:53members within the city uh most notably

2:12:56the police department to provide a speed

2:12:58study. So, you'll see some data up here

2:12:59that shows that there was decreases, as

2:13:01you would imagine, in speeding with that

2:13:04entrance closed off. Um that seems

2:13:07pretty self-explanatory. Uh it should be

2:13:09noted that the 85th percentile speed

2:13:12decreased 4 miles an hour. That's

2:13:14significant. Um and then the fastest

2:13:16speed decreased 6 miles an hour. So with

2:13:19the constituents that came to complain

2:13:20about the speeding in this area, having

2:13:22that road closed does show a difference.

2:13:26Uh there is uh while the volume dropped

2:13:29significantly, this the average speed

2:13:31did drop as well. Uh and on a 25 mph

2:13:34road, a four mile hour speed

2:13:36differential is significant. So just

2:13:37keep that in mind. Um again I mentioned

2:13:40the the the potential 1 to two minute

2:13:42response delay would be ant would be uh

2:13:45potentially had with a closure. We did

2:13:48receive some comments from the residents

2:13:50about how would emergency vehicles get

2:13:52to our house. Uh I did not our team did

2:13:56not receive any complaints about access

2:13:58to their property with the road closure.

2:14:01Now whether that's just because they

2:14:03sensed it and it's there and they got

2:14:05used to it. Um but again did not receive

2:14:07any complaints about that. Next slide

2:14:09please. So uh what we are trying to do

2:14:12is an effective efficient and economical

2:14:14solution to this problem. There is a

2:14:16one-way aspect of this road that um has

2:14:22been asked to be closed permanently. But

2:14:25we also have concerns about emergency

2:14:26access. And we all know that one to two

2:14:28minutes um is a very significant amount

2:14:30of time when there's a fire or an

2:14:31emergency response.

2:14:34So um we've had requests of putting

2:14:37ballards up there or having the um

2:14:39automatic gate put up there. But all

2:14:41these things cost a lot of money and

2:14:42they are mechanical and they are doomed

2:14:44to fail. So, we had come up with an idea

2:14:47very similar to what you see on the

2:14:49screen before you of a passover on Route

2:14:51One, for example, where there's

2:14:54authorized vehicles turn only. Uh, and I

2:14:57know that there's going to be some folks

2:14:59that say, "Well, people are just going

2:15:00to drive through the door anyway." That

2:15:02could be, but this is enforceable. Um,

2:15:04so we we can we we partnered with the

2:15:07police department, the fire department,

2:15:08public works department. We're all in

2:15:10agreement that this is a solution that I

2:15:13believe is sound, effective, and

2:15:14efficient. Um,

2:15:17and it will allow emergency vehicles to

2:15:19go down that that that axis. So, if you

2:15:21go to the next slide, it's a visual of

2:15:22what it would look like with the

2:15:23proposal.

2:15:25So, as you see on the left side of your

2:15:26screen, the current configuration has

2:15:29these two red diamonds that are

2:15:31typically used at a T intersection to

2:15:33deter people from going straight across

2:15:35a T intersection. Um, in this situation,

2:15:37it was really just shown as kind of like

2:15:39a, you know, hey, just look out what

2:15:41you're doing type of thing. So, the

2:15:44proposal is to install a do not enter

2:15:46and uh this the sign may be a little

2:15:48fuzzy to see, but it's uh essentially

2:15:50saying emergency and authorized use

2:15:51only. And again, this is enforceable.

2:15:53So, if people do go down this road uh

2:15:56incorrectly,

2:15:57uh they are subject to the requisite

2:16:01fine. Um, again, we believe that this is

2:16:05a very effective and efficient solution

2:16:07to the problem. I'd be happy to answer

2:16:09any questions from this body.

2:16:12>> Uh, I just would like to say that I did

2:16:14receive a call from um neighbors in that

2:16:17or email from neighbors in that uh in

2:16:21that area and they were um very

2:16:23appreciative and said they have u not

2:16:27there you are in the back. There you

2:16:29are. They didn't wave. So, you know, I

2:16:32heard you and read your emails that um

2:16:34they were very appreciative and that

2:16:36they're walking their children now more

2:16:39with a little bit more um comfort and um

2:16:43enjoying uh their neighborhood a little

2:16:45more. So, I just wanted to speak on

2:16:47behalf of of the constituents uh um who

2:16:50who did contact me. That's all. Any

2:16:52other questions from any member of the

2:16:54committee? Uh, the chair recognizes

2:16:56Councilman Rosher.

2:16:57>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Mr. Brian,

2:17:00do we know that when the when we had the

2:17:04temporary blockade

2:17:07uh there, were there any emergency

2:17:10responses that happened or occurred

2:17:12during that time?

2:17:13>> I I am not privy to that information. I

2:17:15can certainly research that if the body

2:17:16likes um my assumption would be that

2:17:19they would just find the other entrance

2:17:20into the development, which is there are

2:17:22there are two means of egress into this

2:17:24development without this blockade, but I

2:17:25could find that information for you.

2:17:28Yeah, I would probably like to know

2:17:30that. I mean, I So, the sign

2:17:33is a deterrent,

2:17:35but I'm pretty sure I don't know if it's

2:17:37going to slow down or if people are

2:17:39going to

2:17:41honor the sign. You know what I mean?

2:17:42>> I totally understand.

2:17:44um

2:17:46as a trap a traffic calming mechanism.

2:17:48Uh I think I'm still leaning towards

2:17:52blocking the entrance permanently, but

2:17:54it would be nice to know if if there was

2:17:58an emergency response

2:18:00and uh I know the chief's not here, but

2:18:02I know he had mentioned

2:18:05is a chief No, no, no. Uh fire chief.

2:18:09Yeah, Chief Kerry mentioned he gave a

2:18:13the number of how many seconds

2:18:16>> when responding to a fire and one to two

2:18:20minutes is probably

2:18:23not good when it comes to that response.

2:18:26But uh you know

2:18:29um you know that that still doesn't sway

2:18:32me the way I'm thinking you know as far

2:18:34as permanently blocking. I know there's

2:18:37another entrance and the fire station

2:18:40almost sits in between both sides. So, I

2:18:43think if you went down division street,

2:18:45you probably

2:18:47could shave off some time and still get

2:18:49there. Um, but you know, I'm not an

2:18:52expert in that area, but I know that

2:18:55there has been

2:18:58safety issues

2:19:00involving children,

2:19:02and I'd rather

2:19:05try to get the both of best of both

2:19:07worlds in that in that scenario. So,

2:19:09with that, I yield.

2:19:11>> Thank you. The chair recognizes

2:19:13Councilman Lewis.

2:19:15>> Thank you. Um, I really don't think your

2:19:18proposal is going to work, Mr. Line,

2:19:20because um, actually that area used to

2:19:23be my district uh, till it was um,

2:19:27redistricted a couple of years ago and

2:19:30uh, some of the residents over there um,

2:19:33still call me and they have concerns uh,

2:19:36with the speeding. Um, you know, you say

2:19:40that, uh, and they actually had a sign

2:19:42up there at one time because I I've been

2:19:44over in this area for, uh, at least 25

2:19:47years now, and they actually did have a

2:19:49do not enter sign, but people

2:19:51disregarded it, rushing to work, rushing

2:19:53home, wherever the case may be, and they

2:19:56went down there. Um, the barriers have

2:19:59made a difference from my understanding,

2:20:02uh, from hearing from the residents over

2:20:04there. Uh I understand, you know, the

2:20:07situation with the fire department. Uh

2:20:09but I agree with Mr. Rosha. I I think

2:20:11that uh you know, there there still

2:20:14would be enough time um to to get to a

2:20:18fire or whatever the case may be. Um I I

2:20:21really uh don't think that if you put

2:20:26that or another do not enter sign, um

2:20:29it's going to be enforced. Uh first of

2:20:31all, there's uh not enough police

2:20:33officer to sit there and enforce it. Uh

2:20:36unless you're going to put a camera up

2:20:37there. You know, you're going to put a a

2:20:39license plate reader camera up there and

2:20:41you know, click the tag numbers of the

2:20:44people um committing the violations. Um

2:20:47so that's where I stand on this. Uh it's

2:20:49not going to work

2:20:52and that's all I have at this time.

2:20:55>> Thank you. The the chair recognizes uh

2:20:57Councilman Dr. Sutler.

2:20:59Thank you, Chairman Bogerty. That's

2:21:00exactly where I was headed. Um, I think

2:21:03that you should put a camera there

2:21:06and I think that maybe you should put

2:21:08two signs where it says do not enter.

2:21:10Put one on both sides and then a camera

2:21:11there. The camera help enforce it. We're

2:21:14already moving towards um cameras in

2:21:17different locations of the city and that

2:21:20could be used as like a a pilot program

2:21:23to see whether or not uh the camera

2:21:25being there will a deter and b um

2:21:29generate revenue if they want if they

2:21:31want to, you know, not adhere. And then

2:21:33I would put a hefty fine like I, you

2:21:35know, I wouldn't put no $100. I would

2:21:37make it sort of a um make them think

2:21:40about it. If I saw something that says a

2:21:42$500 fine if you, you know, surpass this

2:21:46and you're not a fire apparatus, I would

2:21:48put only emergency apparatuses and a

2:21:51camera there. Every car that goes by

2:21:53there, that's $500 that wants to have

2:21:55$500 to spend, we'll take it. That's how

2:21:58I look at it. Um, you have to have if

2:22:01they're going to take the, you know, if

2:22:02they're g if if you know, we have to

2:22:04have some type of hefty penalty to deter

2:22:08$25, $50, $100. That's nothing. $500,

2:22:12$1,000, and make a progressive. Your

2:22:15first account, your first offense, $500.

2:22:17The second, double a,000. And, you know,

2:22:20and and that's how I would do it. And

2:22:22put a camera there and read the tag and

2:22:24then put the sign there. only emergency

2:22:27apparatuses can go beyond this point

2:22:30done. Get that money.

2:22:33>> May I dialogue?

2:22:35>> Yeah. Yeah. But permission to dialogue.

2:22:36>> Permission. Thank you. Um

2:22:38>> I I understand all the points. I want to

2:22:41reiterate a couple things that I forgot

2:22:42to mention. [clears throat] Um we we

2:22:45looked at other options for traffic

2:22:47coming within the the network. The issue

2:22:49that we have in this road is it's very

2:22:51narrow. So putting a chicane or any sort

2:22:55of deterrent is not feasible. I just

2:22:57want to make sure that's put on the

2:22:58record. We did look at other options. Um

2:23:01I want to go back to the the question

2:23:03Mr. Rosha had with regard to the timing.

2:23:06Um the the slideshow does have an

2:23:09example of going down Division Street

2:23:11versus going down Lockerman. And there

2:23:12is a 1 to two minute difference in the

2:23:13middle of Lockerman Street. I just want

2:23:14to make sure that's clear. Um and that's

2:23:17just based off of historical data,

2:23:19right? Um the camera aspect

2:23:23um of course that's going to cost money

2:23:25and management right so um

2:23:29I like to think that some people like to

2:23:31follow rules and I hope that my kids

2:23:35will do that right so that is the the

2:23:38genesis of this and try to be effective

2:23:40and econ economical so totally

2:23:42understand everyone's point I get it uh

2:23:44we'd have to look at the feasibility of

2:23:45of raising those fines I'm not in a

2:23:47position to tell you right now that if

2:23:48that's legal or

2:23:50Um, so I could certainly do some more

2:23:52research for this team.

2:23:56>> Dialogue.

2:23:57>> And thank you. Um,

2:24:00okay. Being that city council is a

2:24:02legislative body that governs this city,

2:24:05what would be the restriction for us to

2:24:08raise a he a hefty fine on our road that

2:24:11you may I mean, I'm not challenged or

2:24:13anything. I'm just saying like

2:24:15to your knowledge, what would restrict

2:24:17us from putting a $5500

2:24:20fine um if they goes, you know, I don't

2:24:24I don't I don't

2:24:26>> see I haven't read anything.

2:24:29Yes, I'll refer to the uh chair of

2:24:31safety and then maybe he can bring

2:24:32forward to chief if he has any knowledge

2:24:35in that domain.

2:24:36>> Absolutely. Be happy to. Uh the chair

2:24:38recognizes um Chief Johnson to answer

2:24:41any

2:24:43questions regarding the uh

2:24:46the the fee structure of um or fine

2:24:50structure. This won't be a fee. Let me

2:24:51use the correct terminology. The fine

2:24:53structure for traffic incidents.

2:24:56Uh just for the record, I see I got you,

2:24:58Miss Maine. I see you. I appreciate you.

2:25:01>> Um for the record, Tom Johnson, chief of

2:25:03police. Um, if I was tracking the

2:25:05question appropriately, you're asking

2:25:06whether or not um, local authority can

2:25:09establish an ordinance that creates a

2:25:13traffic violation that you can assign a

2:25:16value to and make it enforceable as long

2:25:19as I was tracking that right. Okay. Um,

2:25:22I believe you can do that. I believe you

2:25:25have the statutory authority to do that.

2:25:28But what I was just trying to get um the

2:25:30chair's attention about is the use of

2:25:33digital technology to enforce one-way

2:25:37violations. I'm not sure that that's

2:25:39authorized in the code for us to

2:25:42function that way. There's there's

2:25:44specific authorization for red lights

2:25:46and we're stepping onto the stage of

2:25:49speed enforcement through use of digital

2:25:52technology. I don't know that any of my

2:25:56officers would be allowed to file any

2:25:58kind of violation based on reviewing um

2:26:02video. Um whether we own it or whether

2:26:05it's supplied video. I'm not sure not

2:26:07sure we're able to do that. I'm not

2:26:09saying we can't, but I'm not feeling

2:26:11like we can and I' I'd like to double

2:26:13check that aspect if you were going to

2:26:15continue down the road of discussing

2:26:16technology for enforcement.

2:26:19>> Thank you. I would can you please look

2:26:22into that certainly and provide it back

2:26:26right I know you don't have it tonight

2:26:27and that's okay um but if you could

2:26:30provide that to us I think it'd be

2:26:32helpful in how we assess um how we want

2:26:35to continue to govern um you know safety

2:26:39traffic safety and address these matters

2:26:41here because to my knowledge and the

2:26:44years I've been on council and

2:26:46committees this is city council city

2:26:48manager former government and we drive

2:26:52the legislative component and and cities

2:26:55have their own home rule um

2:26:58authorization and if they feel as though

2:27:02that is the best um course of action all

2:27:05we have to do is an ordinance and and

2:27:08make sure it's within the confinement of

2:27:10of of state and federal statute. Uh but

2:27:14we have home rule. We you know just like

2:27:15when we do um fees and and um you know

2:27:20just like we're talking about

2:27:21infrastructure fee. I I believe we had

2:27:23the home rule and I haven't seen

2:27:24anything different. So, if you could

2:27:25definitely just take a look at that and

2:27:28um maybe through an email or maybe um

2:27:31the chair if you could provide it to the

2:27:33committee as a whole through the through

2:27:35the chairman like chairman Bogardy uh

2:27:38and disseminate it which he you know

2:27:40upon his approval and disseminated to

2:27:42the rest of us. I think I I know I would

2:27:44like to know um moving forward. Thank

2:27:47you. I yield

2:27:48>> question. Thank you. Uh

2:27:52oh, chief. I just want to say um I can

2:27:54report back um very quickly on that. And

2:27:56the other thing I would remind council

2:27:58uh not too long ago we adopted uh a

2:28:01stronger ordinance for offhighway

2:28:03vehicles um based on um the state law in

2:28:07its um draft at that time. It has since

2:28:11been updated, but that has not impacted

2:28:13um the ordinance that you adopted a

2:28:15couple of years ago. So you you clearly

2:28:17have the ability to um take pieces of

2:28:20the vehicle code that you'd like to

2:28:22codify locally. You you absolutely can

2:28:25do that.

2:28:27>> All right. Thank you. Um the chair

2:28:29recognizes uh the mayor.

2:28:33>> Thank you uh Mr. Chairman. It would not

2:28:36be my intent to uh represent the fire

2:28:38chief or his opinions, but um uh as a

2:28:42firefighter from Robins Hose Company for

2:28:44over 50 years, one of our uh rapid

2:28:48emergency response routes from fire

2:28:51station number one downtown headquarters

2:28:53company has always been uh to respond to

2:28:57division street to head east. Uh, as a

2:29:01operator of a peace fire apparatus, I

2:29:03think that uh, and this is my own

2:29:06personal opinion, uh, the easier

2:29:08response route would be Division Street

2:29:12uh, and swing in off of the side streets

2:29:14into uh, the Eastover uh, area. I think

2:29:19that um, successfully we've prevented

2:29:23uh, traffic from going through there and

2:29:26I think that uh, we probably should

2:29:28continue that direction.

2:29:30Uh let me also reiterate time is of the

2:29:32essence in in a fire call as Chief

2:29:34Johnson as a past chief of his own

2:29:37department as a as an officer in Dover

2:29:40Fire Department myself many years ago.

2:29:43Uh however, I think the the rap more

2:29:46rapid response uh would be for fire

2:29:49apparatus to respond to that area. And

2:29:52I'm not sure what the call volume is. I

2:29:54wish we would have been able to pull

2:29:55that up. uh would be to respond uh from

2:29:59the downtown firehouse uh head east on

2:30:02division and swing in into that uh into

2:30:05that development. Um just basically also

2:30:09because of the size of the apparatus

2:30:11that has to go through there. Uh and u

2:30:15I'm not so sure responding down

2:30:17Lockerman Street. I've uh we've done

2:30:19that for years to go uh to the um to the

2:30:24southeast of town and because of the

2:30:26traffic situation uh we no longer

2:30:28respond down Lockerman Street unless it

2:30:31is absolutely uh necessary. So uh I

2:30:35think the uh division street response

2:30:37route is uh is more proper in my

2:30:40opinion. And let me let me reiterate

2:30:42that again that I'm not speaking for the

2:30:44fire chief nor am I speaking for the

2:30:46fire department. I'm speaking from

2:30:48personal experience. I yield, Mr.

2:30:49Chairman.

2:30:51>> Thank you. The chair recognizes

2:30:53Councilman Lewis online.

2:30:55>> Yes. I have a question for the chief. Um

2:30:58and and let's be factual, Chief.

2:31:01Do you have enough resources

2:31:03to put a police officer over there to

2:31:07conduct traffic enforcement if in fact

2:31:11um this proposal was approved?

2:31:15Um, if you're I guess the short is no.

2:31:19The short answer is no. Um, would it be

2:31:21part of

2:31:23>> if council asked for it to be in the

2:31:25regular rotation of enforcement? It

2:31:27certainly would. But that level of

2:31:29enforcement right now would not be, I

2:31:32don't believe, frequent enough to show

2:31:34any major shift in in driver behavior.

2:31:37If we were having a problem over there,

2:31:39it wouldn't be enough.

2:31:41>> I mean, let's face the facts. You and I

2:31:43have discussed this uh as far as uh

2:31:46speeding when we you know we still have

2:31:48speeding issues, but uh when it was a

2:31:50major issue in my district uh a couple

2:31:53of years ago and I and I got those uh

2:31:55radar enforcement signs. Um you had

2:31:58indicated that you don't have enough

2:31:59resources to put a cop on every corner

2:32:02to uh conduct speed traps. So, I mean,

2:32:05I'm sure that the way it stands now,

2:32:07you're not going to have the resources

2:32:09to put a cop there to try and bang

2:32:11people from entering a do not enter

2:32:14street. Am I correct?

2:32:16>> I think that's a correct

2:32:17characterization. I just I just want to

2:32:20make sure it's clear. We have some

2:32:22capacity and it wouldn't be that we

2:32:24would never be there, but it probably

2:32:27would never be enough in the eyes of the

2:32:29individuals looking for a definitive

2:32:31change.

2:32:32>> Understood. Um, my next question uh is

2:32:35to Mr. Lion. How much would it cost the

2:32:39city to close off that road and would we

2:32:44be able to get any grant fund in if it

2:32:46were approved?

2:32:49>> Are you asking if you want to have a

2:32:51permanent wall put up?

2:32:53>> Correct. Or a uh cement barrier uh or

2:32:59cement a curb where you could not enter.

2:33:05close

2:33:07off that section of the street.

2:33:10>> Okay.

2:33:11>> Let me get back to you on that. I'm

2:33:13going to have to look at different

2:33:13options. Um I would say

2:33:17off of cost probably less maybe a,000 to

2:33:20$2,000 depending on what we do.

2:33:22>> But I'll get back to the team on this.

2:33:25>> Okay, that's all I have. Thank you.

2:33:27>> All right. Thank you. All right. So, um,

2:33:31thank you, um, Chief. Thank you all. The

2:33:33chair recognizes Councilwoman Art.

2:33:36>> Thank you. Um, I agree. I think if you

2:33:38see a do not enter sign, uh, a big red

2:33:41sign, um, most people would not continue

2:33:44down that path. I like the idea of

2:33:47exploring a significant fine and noting

2:33:49it on the sign, $500. I think that would

2:33:54be a certain certainly a deterrent. I

2:33:56caution against a permanent closure. uh

2:33:59a structure that cannot be removed in

2:34:02that should there be a situation on the

2:34:04highway where the intersection is

2:34:06blocked there at 13 and and division um

2:34:10being able to route traffic in an

2:34:12emergency situation and having this as

2:34:15an alternative I don't think it's ever

2:34:17happened but to have that as an

2:34:19alternative only when necessary

2:34:22I would not recommend a permanent

2:34:24fixture to block that location,

2:34:28but I would support this sign and

2:34:30exploring a fine. I yield.

2:34:32>> Thank you. The chair recognizes uh

2:34:35Councilman Rosha.

2:34:36>> Thank you. Uh Mr. Chairman, so I I agree

2:34:39with what um Councilwoman Art said about

2:34:42permanent structure. I I would be

2:34:44leaning more towards having some type of

2:34:46a gate situation

2:34:49that in an emergency even for a fire

2:34:53response if somebody could just show up

2:34:55there and open the gate if if need be

2:34:57even though I'm I'm hearing what run

2:35:00through it whatever but just you know um

2:35:06I wonder who's going to be driving but

2:35:08anyway

2:35:10um something that uh we would be able to

2:35:13give access to not not nothing. I wasn't

2:35:16thinking of anything permanent in in

2:35:19that case. I yield.

2:35:21>> Thank you.

2:35:22>> All right. Uh chair recogniz recognized

2:35:25me. Uh when it regards to the gate, I

2:35:27was thinking maybe you can have

2:35:28something like uh what they have the

2:35:30rail railroad system and maybe where

2:35:33it's maybe like the uh the police or the

2:35:37police or the fire department has like a

2:35:40little signal or something where they

2:35:42can just almost like a a garage opener

2:35:45and it, you know, and it opens and then

2:35:48it shuts. But that's a permanent barrier

2:35:50where no one no car is really going to

2:35:52ride through that. And then they sort of

2:35:54are they know not to do that. They have

2:35:57like you know what they do with the

2:35:58railroad system. Once they see that

2:35:59thing down they like okay I'm not going

2:36:02that way. Even though they try and ride

2:36:04through it and probably damage their

2:36:05vehicle but I think something of that

2:36:07magnitude would be a great um happy

2:36:10medium because you still have the

2:36:12barrier, right? you still can it still

2:36:14can extend up so someone can go through

2:36:17and then having access you know the um

2:36:20emergency um you know emergency

2:36:23apparatuses can have those have that

2:36:25access so that's I think that's a great

2:36:27thought about a a mobile but still um

2:36:31gate system thank you for recognizing me

2:36:33>> all right thank you my um only concern

2:36:37if and and again I'm I'm happy that

2:36:40you're seeing results is that we have

2:36:42other neighborhoods who've had the same

2:36:45issue. Um, and then pretty soon we'll

2:36:48have a a city with with streets that are

2:36:53not accessible because they too have

2:36:56concerns um over in what's uh they're

2:37:00not here today, believe it or not. Uh

2:37:02over uh um huh

2:37:06that that area. So you know you know we

2:37:10often you know hear about the challenges

2:37:12that they have over there. So you know

2:37:14once we do it in one place then we set

2:37:17what we call a presidents and um

2:37:19presidents and then we have to do

2:37:22permanent structures and then our city

2:37:24look a little interesting. Um and the

2:37:27safety impact will be um um um the

2:37:31challenges to our safety uh with fire

2:37:34and police etc will will will be will

2:37:38will will increase of them um assessing

2:37:40roads. So that's my only concern about

2:37:43doing that. I do believe we should do

2:37:45something but maybe not as permanent in

2:37:49structure in gates etc. Uh so that's

2:37:52that. I think um Councilman Lewis is uh

2:37:55raising his hand again. The chair

2:37:57recognizes Councilman Lewis.

2:37:58>> Uh yes, actually um I was listening to

2:38:01what Mr. Sler was saying and um he does

2:38:04bring up a good point about a automatic

2:38:08gate. Uh if you drive down Route One in

2:38:12Delaware, you'll notice on the side of

2:38:15the road you have like service roads and

2:38:18you have uh like a gate that's operated

2:38:22um I think by Delot if I'm not mistaken.

2:38:25and they can actually uh raise the gate

2:38:28electronically uh from headquarters or

2:38:32whatever the case may be. Uh and whoever

2:38:35like the state police if they have to

2:38:36get off that access road, they either

2:38:38make a phone call or they have a remote

2:38:40control. So that may be something that

2:38:43Mr. Lion could look into. Uh because

2:38:45Dell Dot does that. I've seen it on

2:38:46Route One. And um as far as Mrs. AR's

2:38:50comment. Um, it would be nice if we did

2:38:53live in a perfect world where everybody

2:38:55obeyed the ordinances and the laws, but

2:38:58take down those barriers tomorrow

2:39:01afternoon and come sit with me over

2:39:03there in the Burger King parking lot and

2:39:05you will see how many people disregard

2:39:09the sign and go down that road. Speed

2:39:11it. That's all I have.

2:39:17>> Thank you. Do the chair recognizes

2:39:18Councilman Dr. Sler and immediately

2:39:20after that the mayor. I

2:39:22>> I could yield to the mayor. Mayor and if

2:39:24you don't mind and come back to me if

2:39:26that's all right.

2:39:26>> So in regard to a ca uh thank you uh Dr.

2:39:29Ser. In regards to a a gate that would

2:39:32be operated by a remote control, uh each

2:39:36pieces of fire equipment uh and the

2:39:39ambulances are equipped with opticons

2:39:42and that is how they get access onto the

2:39:46various different parts of uh route one.

2:39:49So that might be something that would be

2:39:51doable with the opticon system that the

2:39:53fire trucks already have in place and

2:39:55that we have on many of our street

2:39:57lights to allow us to turn the lights

2:40:00to, you know, make our emergency

2:40:02response. So that might be an option.

2:40:04Yield, Mr. Chair.

2:40:06>> Thank you, Dr. Seller.

2:40:08>> Thank you. And I also wanted to u

2:40:10reiterate to our constituents that uh

2:40:12the capital area municipality

2:40:14sustainability act which we will be um

2:40:17further addressing and reviewing at the

2:40:20end of October uh is dealing with

2:40:22infrastructure right gaining money for

2:40:25infrastructure

2:40:26um to basically um fund some of these

2:40:30new innovative ways right of keeping our

2:40:32community safe through road systems. So

2:40:34that would be something that would be

2:40:36able to assist us in conjunction with

2:40:39the uh state funding from uh Trey Party,

2:40:43our 17th district senator. We can reach

2:40:46out to him in addition to reaching out

2:40:49to our 31st district house of

2:40:51representatives Shaun Lynn for their

2:40:53community transportation funds. They

2:40:56have millions. Well, I know they have

2:40:58they have a lot of hundred thousands,

2:41:00close to a million. and I don't say

2:41:01millions, but I know they have hundred

2:41:02thousands because um I've talked with

2:41:05them in regard to some other matters on

2:41:08College Road. So, the money is there and

2:41:11I think that um you know, I think we

2:41:13also need to look at uh seeing how we

2:41:16can partner with King County. Uh, I hate

2:41:19to say this, but you know, King County

2:41:22is getting our taxes, and I don't I'm

2:41:25going go out on a limb on I don't see

2:41:26how much I'm not saying they're not

2:41:27doing anything, but I don't see um in my

2:41:31daily um

2:41:34operations as councilman and just as a

2:41:36taxpayer, I don't I don't see how much

2:41:38King County is contributing to a lot of

2:41:41our road system, infrastructure, storm

2:41:44water. I know they do some, but the the

2:41:47daily things that affect our

2:41:48constituents because they're getting our

2:41:49tax dollars, too. We got double

2:41:51taxation. Our constituents are paying

2:41:53city tax and county tax. So, I think we

2:41:56need to lean a little bit more in on the

2:41:58county and ask them to to give us some

2:42:01funding. You know, um when I was council

2:42:04president, unfortunately,

2:42:06um I was trying to connect um but the

2:42:10ball got dropped. It wasn't on my end.

2:42:12Um but it was on their end. And I think

2:42:14it's because there's been a history of a

2:42:16disconnect between the county uh and the

2:42:19city. I think as you being a a newly

2:42:23assistant city manager and also city

2:42:25manager, our new team and teamed over, I

2:42:29think that'd be a great opportunity uh

2:42:31to to sort of try and strengthen that

2:42:33which is going to benefit our

2:42:34constituents as a whole. So, let's lean

2:42:37in on some of our state funds and also

2:42:40let's tap into our county so that we can

2:42:42stay out of our constituents um uh

2:42:44pockets and give them some relief. Uh

2:42:48so, I yield. Thank you.

2:42:50>> Thank you. Uh the chair recognizes uh um

2:42:54council interim president Anderson.

2:42:58>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh

2:43:03but there's been a a lot of discussion

2:43:05and some of it would take uh some

2:43:09research uh such as uh even if uh gates

2:43:13not going to be cheap and and it

2:43:15wouldn't be instant. Um what I would

2:43:19support right now while this is being

2:43:22evaluated would be to extend the status

2:43:24quo and then evaluate um uh continue to

2:43:28evaluate options because right now

2:43:31what's happening is working. So what's

2:43:34the hurry? we can take our time,

2:43:36evaluate options

2:43:39and and then make them happen. Uh the

2:43:43the best option because we don't have a

2:43:46a ticking time clock. The current

2:43:48solution is working. I I yield. Um I I

2:43:53don't know if the chair hasn't

2:43:54recognized the time for a motion yet.

2:43:56Okay.

2:43:57>> If he may want comment or or whatever.

2:43:59>> Thank you.

2:44:00>> Thank you. Um there's a

2:44:04lot of people who want to have public

2:44:06comment. So I just want to emphasize

2:44:09that you the threeminut clock is going

2:44:11to be and I'm going to have to stick

2:44:12closely to that because there are quite

2:44:14a few and um we want to make sure that

2:44:17we are um we are there. So I'm going to

2:44:19go what's listed and then I'll recognize

2:44:21those who who who volunteer or who who

2:44:25are asking

2:44:27um without signing up. So the first

2:44:29family I want to call is the Paul

2:44:31family. I mean the Bell family and then

2:44:33immediately after the Bell family I

2:44:35believe Shell Paul has her um has signed

2:44:38up or do you want to run?

2:44:40>> I list.

2:44:41>> Okay. And then I'll go to to the list

2:44:43and I think Shell Shell Paul is also

2:44:45online and then we'll recognize others.

2:44:48Belinda Maine I see you and everybody.

2:44:51So now are you all speaking individually

2:44:54or as one?

2:44:57The girls prepared speeches for city

2:44:59council. It was part of their home

2:45:01school. Sorry. The girls prepared

2:45:03speeches today for city council as part

2:45:05of their home school. They asked me for

2:45:06advice. They said, "I can't help you.

2:45:07It's all you."

2:45:08>> Okay.

2:45:08>> So, you would let them go.

2:45:10>> All right. So, so let's start with it

2:45:13with our future leaders. Go ahead.

2:45:16>> You can you can pull that down.

2:45:18>> Okay. This is for you. Do you remember?

2:45:20>> Wait, you got to say your name. Don't

2:45:22you don't have to get your address

2:45:23because we got people online.

2:45:24>> Sarah

2:45:27Why I like the street closed is because

2:45:31you can ride bikes.

2:45:33>> Dad, you want to come take a picture of

2:45:35this moment, do you?

2:45:39>> And and how did you learn to ride bikes?

2:45:42>> With daddy

2:45:43>> and the street closed

2:45:45>> because it was safe.

2:45:47>> Yeah.

2:45:47>> Right. Okay. All right.

2:45:52>> No. Yeah. Yeah.

2:45:55just just read yourself.

2:45:57>> Um, hi, my name's Clara. I'm here

2:46:01because you guys would like to reopen my

2:46:03street and I should not have to close my

2:46:07street to be safe. People shouldn't

2:46:09speed down my road and I know you guys

2:46:11can't control that. Um,

2:46:15we used to have a sign a while ago,

2:46:17maybe like three, four years ago, and

2:46:19somebody hid it in the middle of the

2:46:20night and then and then we got a new one

2:46:25and then

2:46:30then they closed the road and then they

2:46:32took the sign away.

2:46:34Now, no people have been speeding down

2:46:36the road. Well, not no people, but less

2:46:39people, much less people have been

2:46:41coming down my road and speeding. So now

2:46:44I can ride my bike down the street

2:46:45without worried I'm getting hit.

2:46:52>> Thank you. Good. Thank you. All right.

2:46:59>> My name's Irma.

2:47:01When the street is closed, it feels like

2:47:05everything is perfect.

2:47:09My um I can walk my dogs

2:47:13um with my family

2:47:16and happily talk about how nice it is

2:47:19with the road closed. If you reopen it,

2:47:23I won't be able to do that much more

2:47:26often and it'll I probably won't be able

2:47:30to ride my bike that much cuz my parents

2:47:33know it's not safe for me to be there

2:47:35with speeders coming up and down the

2:47:38street. Um

2:47:43uh

2:47:45so please don't reopen the street.

2:47:48>> Okay.

2:47:50All right. Uh I Okay. So, um we have to

2:47:54give you a grade and I think all the

2:47:55council will make a ordinance that you

2:47:57all get a a A. We're making a motion

2:48:00that you get a A. All those in uh I So,

2:48:05parents, you have to give a A for this

2:48:06assignment.

2:48:07>> I'll put that down there as civic

2:48:08responsibility.

2:48:10>> It [laughter] is.

2:48:11>> So, real quick, I just want to thank you

2:48:13guys. The I'm Mary Bell. I live at 801

2:48:16East Sacramento Street. I've been there

2:48:1711 11 years now. Um, thank you for

2:48:22finally believing in the safety of our

2:48:25street and how much it matters to us.

2:48:27Um, it was never about the volume of

2:48:29cars. It was about the danger of the

2:48:31people that were not respecting the laws

2:48:32and rules of the road. Um, otherwise I'd

2:48:35be able we'd be able to ride bikes. We'd

2:48:37be able to walk our dogs. You know, it

2:48:38wouldn't be an issue. Um, I hate to say

2:48:42this. I don't normally agree with you,

2:48:43Councilman Art, but I'm agreeing with

2:48:45you tonight. I don't think there should

2:48:47be a permanent barrier, but what I do

2:48:49think is the barrier that's in place is

2:48:51fine and Mayor Christensen's fire trucks

2:48:54can run it right over because I know my

2:48:56suburban can. Not that I've tried, but I

2:48:58know it could. Um, so I feel like a fire

2:49:01truck would be fine, just a little bump.

2:49:03Um, if that's needed. Um, I like the

2:49:06gate idea. I I like the sign. Can you

2:49:09put it in the middle and so the cops can

2:49:11just go around it? Um, just put it right

2:49:13in the pavement. it would be fine. Um,

2:49:17somehow the the barrier was removed

2:49:19recently. Um, and it I was in my not

2:49:23fully dressed, let's just say, outside

2:49:25with coffee and dogs. Um, people were

2:49:27flying down the road and a child was

2:49:31being dropped off at my house and she's

2:49:33like, "When did they open your road?"

2:49:34And I'm like, "I have no idea. What do

2:49:37you, you know, we had to go investigate

2:49:39and and and deal with this." Um, it was

2:49:42a nightmare until they put it back

2:49:44because it was just it didn't stop. I

2:49:47don't think the sign will work. I love

2:49:49the fine. Please make some money for the

2:49:52city. I am down for that. Um,

2:49:56but you have to enforce it. So, need a

2:49:57camera because the police are busy doing

2:49:59other things. They shouldn't have to

2:50:01police someone, you know, doing that. I

2:50:04agree with that. So, I think all the

2:50:06solutions are great. Please leave the

2:50:07sandbags in the barrier for now so I can

2:50:09enjoy fall. Um, and my whole

2:50:11neighborhood can enjoy it. I've met 10

2:50:13neighbors I didn't even know because

2:50:15we're outside now. We're not we're not

2:50:18in our backyards hiding from each other.

2:50:20So, it's a really great thing that you

2:50:22guys are doing and I really appreciate

2:50:23it.

2:50:30>> All right, I guess I'll wrap up. Um, I'm

2:50:32Robert Bell obviously at 801. Um, very

2:50:36glad the girls had the uh bravery to get

2:50:38through that. Um, I do want to thank you

2:50:41all for uh the barrier that we've had

2:50:43for the past couple months. It's been

2:50:44great. Uh, I have obviously noticed a

2:50:47significant reduction in the number of

2:50:50unexpected vehicles and according

2:50:53speeders. We still got them every now

2:50:55and then. Go figure. It's going to

2:50:57happen, right? I am a little bit

2:50:59concerned about the sign thing. It's

2:51:00better than nothing. Um, but it comes

2:51:04down to enforcement, right? If there's

2:51:06not consequences for people breaking a

2:51:08law, they're people will do it. Um, so,

2:51:12you know, however you deal with that. I

2:51:15I will say the suggestion of the alpers,

2:51:18not a fan. Um, the license plate

2:51:21recognition devices, as a technologist,

2:51:25I have some issue with the security uh,

2:51:27excuse me, the the um privacy

2:51:29implications of that. I know we've got

2:51:30them in town. Not happy to see that, but

2:51:33it's a concern. I definitely like some

2:51:35of the other technological solutions. Uh

2:51:38the uh optic something or other gate

2:51:41>> opticon gate. I think that's a fantastic

2:51:43idea. You know what? We could we could

2:51:45just turn it into dirt the other rest of

2:51:47the way. I bet you guys have some pretty

2:51:49good shocks in the trucks. They could

2:51:50probably roll over the dirt. Most cars

2:51:52probably won't have good shocks.

2:51:55>> Uh yeah, exactly.

2:51:56>> Hey, [clears throat]

2:51:57>> and you know the little cars that want

2:51:58to go in speed. Hey, you know what?

2:52:00better business for all our local, you

2:52:03know, body shops and tire shops and

2:52:04whatnot. So anyway, um once again, I did

2:52:07want to thank you all for your time this

2:52:09evening and listening listening to us

2:52:11and uh with that, have a good night.

2:52:13>> Thank you. I think we have some other I

2:52:15understand Miss Paul removed her hand.

2:52:17Okay, Miss uh Miss Maine, do you have

2:52:20any com? You raised your hand. No, good.

2:52:23>> I have a list if you want me to go.

2:52:24>> Okay. Uh

2:52:26oh, I apologize. I thought she went

2:52:28through the list.

2:52:29>> Nope. Yeah.

2:52:30>> Nope. We got more

2:52:31>> here. Bonnie, you

2:52:34>> The first person I have for this topic

2:52:36is Terry Sipple.

2:52:46>> Can I Can you Can we please pass the

2:52:48mic?

2:53:08If you're going to make the fine, make

2:53:10it something that you're going to have

2:53:12to have the camera, but make it

2:53:15something that's going to give people

2:53:17pause. If you put signs up there, you

2:53:20know, the do not enter sign and you

2:53:23stick a a sign under it, you know, and

2:53:26they see the camera and that sign

2:53:28underneath it says fine, $1,000 andor 30

2:53:32days in jail, they're not going to do

2:53:35it.

2:53:37And then you just start taking the

2:53:39pictures and start hauling them in. And

2:53:43the first few throw a throw somebody in

2:53:46jail for 30 days. It's an andor.

2:53:50You make an example out of a few. It's

2:53:52not going to happen too often.

2:53:56>> Thank you.

2:53:58Next.

2:54:01>> Next we have David Suitor.

2:54:06>> Hello council.

2:54:08I want to appreciate all you what you've

2:54:10done so far with this barrier. It's made

2:54:12a 100% change in our street. As you seen

2:54:17them little kids right there, I know you

2:54:19don't agree with me because of the cost

2:54:21of the everything you're talking about.

2:54:23But who's more important, your money or

2:54:26that little girl or them girls? Excuse

2:54:28me. Them girls. Do you have kids? Okay.

2:54:32Who's more important to you than

2:54:34anything in this world?

2:54:36These cars that come up and down our

2:54:37street, even with the digital signs,

2:54:41they don't care about your kids. It's

2:54:43not their street. It's a shortcut for

2:54:45them. I hate to say, we also have people

2:54:48coming through there running drugs

2:54:49across the street at Dision Street, the

2:54:51next development over. I've been

2:54:53watching this for three, well, four

2:54:56years now, and I've been on the email

2:54:58with the mayor for three years, and it's

2:55:01taken this long to get someone's

2:55:02attention, and that's a shame. because

2:55:05we already had one child die. I think it

2:55:07was like a year and a half, maybe two

2:55:09years.

2:55:11It shouldn't come to that. We shouldn't

2:55:13have to wait for one of our elderly

2:55:14people or one of our children to die on

2:55:17the street to be noticed.

2:55:20And if you look at your archives,

2:55:23if you've been in do all your life, go

2:55:25back to 1992. This road has been an

2:55:28issue since 1992.

2:55:30The sign, you can forget that. You see

2:55:33people out here running the red light.

2:55:35They see the light turn yellow. They're

2:55:38flying and they don't care if it turns

2:55:39red. They don't care if the next

2:55:41person's going to pull out on them. That

2:55:43sign's a joke. And I'm sorry. You know,

2:55:47our world has become very disrespectful

2:55:49and very reckless.

2:55:51Um the gate may cost you some money, but

2:55:55we're not going to lose these kids,

2:55:57which they are worth a lot more than

2:55:59that that that gate is. And I believe we

2:56:02we need a gate. We don't need a

2:56:03permanent thing there. We want our

2:56:06emergency people to come to us and help

2:56:07us and protect us and put our fires out

2:56:09or whatever happens. The gate is a

2:56:12beautiful idea. Is costly. I agree. But

2:56:15my tax dollars every day, I don't want

2:56:17to give it to you, but I give it to you.

2:56:20Give it back. Protect us. We're

2:56:23Americans. We live in this country all

2:56:25our lives. We're born saying this is a

2:56:27free country. Well, this is my free

2:56:29speech right now. Our children come

2:56:32first. Our our parents come first. Our

2:56:36families. We are all from the same

2:56:38creator. We're brothers and sisters. I

2:56:40don't care what your calorie is. We are

2:56:42brothers and sisters. Protect us. That's

2:56:45why you're up there. That's why our

2:56:47government's there. To protect the

2:56:49United States. To protect Americans.

2:56:52Protect all of us.

2:56:54Nobody's special. We're all special. You

2:56:58know what I mean by that, right? You're

2:57:00not just special and you're not just

2:57:01special. We're all special. We're

2:57:04unique. We all look different. But we

2:57:07all have the right. We was raised with

2:57:09respect from our parents. We was raised

2:57:12how the world isn't all that great, but

2:57:15we respect it and we're law abiding. If

2:57:19we're law abiding,

2:57:20>> we need protection.

2:57:22>> Thank you. Thank you for Thank you so

2:57:24much. Um um that

2:57:29[clears throat]

2:57:31>> next we have Don Thorne.

2:57:37>> Okay,

2:57:37>> thank you. Next

2:57:40>> um Mary Nance.

2:57:44>> Hey, thank you. Next.

2:57:49>> Jeremy Schneider.

2:57:57Uh, thank you for hearing us. Again,

2:57:58Jeremy Schneider, 787. Uh, for sake of

2:58:01time, I'm not going to blabber any

2:58:02points that haven't already been said. I

2:58:04agree with my neighbors. I agree that

2:58:06I've seen kids that I didn't know lived

2:58:08in my neighborhood for the last four

2:58:09years. I saw people the other morning

2:58:11walking dogs in the middle of the street

2:58:13because they finally could use their

2:58:14street for the first time. I was there

2:58:16at the day that child was seriously

2:58:18injured in a car accident right in front

2:58:19of my house. um doing 50 in uh a 25

2:58:24residential zone. Uh and you know, at

2:58:27that meeting when we when we first

2:58:28talked about it, the chief said that

2:58:30could have happened on any street. And

2:58:31sure, it could have happened on any

2:58:32street, but it doesn't change the fact

2:58:33that it happened on a residential

2:58:34street, the street in front of our

2:58:36house. And so ultimately, yeah, I'm not

2:58:38going to blavorver any points. I will

2:58:40thank you for doing what you've done so

2:58:41far. Um I was the one two weeks ago had

2:58:44to call the city to say someone in the

2:58:45middle of the night moved the barrier

2:58:46and were already flying up and down the

2:58:48street. Um, I would love it if signs

2:58:51were respected, but we've proven the

2:58:52point. Uh, there's a sign that says it's

2:58:54a oneway on the other side of the

2:58:56street. Multiple times almost been hit

2:58:59riding my bike or running by people

2:59:01coming out towards Burger King, towards

2:59:0313. I'd love it if signs are respected,

2:59:05but they aren't. Um, so I'd just like

2:59:07you guys to consider that. We appreciate

2:59:09what you've done. It's totally

2:59:12dramatically changed the feel of the

2:59:14neighborhood, um the happiness of the

2:59:16neighborhood, the the usability of the

2:59:18neighborhood as folks who do live there.

2:59:20So, just consider us. I I' I'd

2:59:22appreciate if you would do that while

2:59:24you're thinking about it. And and in the

2:59:25interim, if you could keep it the way

2:59:27that it is, it is a gamecher. It is

2:59:29incredibly safer and it has totally

2:59:31shifted the atmosphere of uh our little

2:59:34neighborhood. So, I appreciate it. Thank

2:59:35you.

2:59:36>> Thank you.

2:59:41Next is M. Santiago.

2:59:47>> No.

2:59:48>> Once, twice, three times. Next.

2:59:53>> Okay. Thank you.

2:59:53>> Sandra Caldwell

2:59:58>> left. Okay. Um, Anthony Wilson.

3:00:05M. Yes. Thank you.

3:00:14Good evening everyone. Um, I'm Anthony

3:00:16Wilson. I'm a newer resident to do. And

3:00:19when I first moved here about six months

3:00:21ago,

3:00:23my only concern was people flying up and

3:00:26down the street. And I just found out

3:00:29actually uh from that that that little

3:00:31flashing sign with the speed limit, it

3:00:34turns red if you go way too fast. So if

3:00:36you go like 50 miles an hour, numbers

3:00:37turn red. I never knew that cuz I've

3:00:40never seen no one go 25 miles over the

3:00:43speed limit like in a in a residential

3:00:45river. So uh that blockade that's

3:00:48currently there, it is working. Uh

3:00:52like everyone else said, there's many

3:00:54neighbors that uh I didn't even know

3:00:58existed. I thought my block was

3:00:59relatively empty until uh they put that

3:01:02blockade up there. Uh I have five girls.

3:01:05Well, I have four girls and one boy, but

3:01:08I have five children and they're all

3:01:10small. And their biggest concern was

3:01:12that there's no other children that

3:01:14lived in our neighborhood until until

3:01:16that blockade. So, it is working is

3:01:18deterring people from

3:01:21doing the wrong thing. Uh I believe if

3:01:24we moved it and just put a sign there,

3:01:26uh those signs usually only deter the

3:01:29law-abiding citizens, but that's not who

3:01:31we're worried about. is the ones who are

3:01:34going 60, 70, 80 miles down this road

3:01:36and like my vehicle's been almost hit

3:01:39multiple times. I'm a runner. I've just

3:01:42started running in the neighborhood

3:01:43because I felt like it was unsafe to do

3:01:45so before that. So, and uh I know

3:01:48someone mentioned something about uh

3:01:51like emergency vehicles coming. I know

3:01:55about three days, three nights ago, I

3:01:58guess someone called the police and they

3:02:00got there relatively fast. One police

3:02:02car came from up from towards division

3:02:04and another one came around the up near

3:02:07the where the blockade is and they got

3:02:09there about within 30 seconds of each

3:02:11other. So it's not really uh a big

3:02:14hindrance on emergency vehicles and yeah

3:02:16if you put a a gate there they can run

3:02:18through those gates. I work with uh I'm

3:02:20a military member so we work with police

3:02:23fire for emergency uh management as well

3:02:25and they do it all the time. So, but

3:02:29that's all I have and hopefully uh you

3:02:32that temporary blockade you can just

3:02:33keep it there as long as you need to.

3:02:35So,

3:02:36>> thank you.

3:02:43>> That's it for my

3:02:44>> That's it. Um we have uh we have um we

3:02:49we'll go Okay. Okay. So, we're gonna go

3:02:52we're going to go Bonnie who I

3:02:54recognize. Um, and we're just going to

3:02:56go from the from this and back and then

3:02:59your

3:03:02your name

3:03:04and then I'll I'll point to you. We I'm

3:03:06just going to go this this way and then

3:03:08back. I got you, Mr. Fa. Got you.

3:03:10>> I didn't see it, but it's fine. You We

3:03:12gonna call you. You You You going We

3:03:14going to call you. I know you angry

3:03:15about last night. They gonna do way

3:03:17better next Sunday. Okay.

3:03:20[laughter]

3:03:21Go ahead, Bonnie.

3:03:22>> Hello everyone. My name is Bonnie. I

3:03:24live in do Sutler. You know I respect

3:03:27you. You know I call you when I need

3:03:29your help. You're doing a good job. But

3:03:32the one thing is if you're going to do

3:03:34this for that street, I'm glad the kids

3:03:37are safe. I got kids of my own. I got

3:03:40grandkids.

3:03:42My question is if you're going to do

3:03:44that for that part of town, why can't

3:03:47you do it for the other part of town? We

3:03:49have houses down on our street now that

3:03:52neighborhood good I say neighborhood

3:03:53good partners but it's not them. I know

3:03:56them for many years. They put four brand

3:03:58new houses up on the corner. There's

3:04:01kids living there. There's kids living

3:04:02in 208. The parents are coming and

3:04:05complaining to me because not only the

3:04:08buses are flying down there. There's a

3:04:10black car that comes from one end of the

3:04:12stop sign to the other one. He loves the

3:04:15speed just to hear his car make that

3:04:18popping sound. Now listen, I'm not

3:04:21disrespecting anyone. I agree with

3:04:24everything's going on, but if you're

3:04:25going to barricade one road, then you

3:04:28need to barricade them all. Don't

3:04:29barricade none. If you're going to treat

3:04:32one area with respect, then you should

3:04:34retreat all areas with respect because

3:04:36everybody out here has kids. Everybody

3:04:39out here has grandkids. Every Listen, my

3:04:42grandchild's handicap. I literally had

3:04:45to go out there and stop a car that ran

3:04:47the handicap bus. Didn't care. They just

3:04:50flew right on down the road because

3:04:52they're on the phone. So, the thing of

3:04:55it is

3:04:57everything needs to be done. It's if

3:04:59you're going to charge $500 to $1,000

3:05:02for them running that road, then you

3:05:04need to charge it on Kirkwood Street

3:05:06because this has been going on since I

3:05:08lived here. And that's been back in

3:05:112005. You can't get the cops to come on

3:05:14that street.

3:05:16I've not once had them come on that

3:05:18street unless we literally call them a

3:05:20100 times. No disrespect to you, but

3:05:22anyway, the problem is everybody's

3:05:26having issues with people speeding

3:05:29through signs, running red lights, doing

3:05:32this, doing that. No disrespect to you,

3:05:33sir, but the bottom line is you have to

3:05:36do it to all

3:05:39because we go through the same thing

3:05:41that them I I'm glad your kids are safe.

3:05:44I love kids. I got three boys, one

3:05:47grandson. I deal with boys. I understand

3:05:50playing with kids. My kids never played

3:05:52on the road where I live at because I

3:05:54never trust that area and I still don't

3:05:57trust it for anybody else's kids. And

3:06:00those kids running up and down them

3:06:01roads every day riding bikes. I even

3:06:04told the lady that just moved in. I

3:06:06wouldn't let my kid ride down this road

3:06:08by myself.

3:06:10Them kids need they needed their parent,

3:06:13but they also need to know what that

3:06:15area is like and how I've been trying to

3:06:18get that area straightened up. Now,

3:06:21watching cameras, are the cops going to

3:06:23watch all of them or they just going to

3:06:24watch specific cameras? because I got

3:06:27one out in front of my house that the

3:06:28cops never look at.

3:06:31So, I mean, you're going to have to

3:06:33treat everybody the same. So, have a

3:06:36good day.

3:06:37>> Thank you. Um,

3:06:40you are next. I'm just going down a road

3:06:43right here. You're you're ma'am, you're

3:06:45next. And then Mr. Fa, you're next. And

3:06:48Mr. F, I was kidding about your Eagles.

3:06:49That's what I was talking about.

3:06:52>> Yeah. Yeah, we're Eagles hand over here.

3:06:55I'm a Detroit Lions fan. You should know

3:06:57that. 313 is tattooed on me.

3:06:59>> Hi, my name is Fernetta and I've been

3:07:01here since college in late 70s, early

3:07:0380s. Um, and sort of piggyback off what

3:07:08everyone has said. There's pros and cons

3:07:10to everything. And it also we can talk

3:07:13about we want this, we want that, but at

3:07:16the end of the day, it's about cost and

3:07:18what's more um effective, what's more

3:07:21efficient. Um I do completely agree um

3:07:26with the last um person that if you're

3:07:29going to this is going to start a

3:07:30president. If you're going to th do it

3:07:33on one street, you have to make sure

3:07:35that that one street is not the only

3:07:38street. That it should encompass all

3:07:40streets because I don't think anyone

3:07:42will um

3:07:45disagree with the fact that we all want

3:07:48our children to be safe whether it's um

3:07:51you know in a park, on the street, just

3:07:54safe period. But understand that it's

3:07:57going to take a a a money to do so.

3:08:00whether it's putting up um a sign and I

3:08:04live over on that area so I do know that

3:08:08people do not look at signs so it's not

3:08:10about the as someone stated the

3:08:12law-abiding citizen it's about the ones

3:08:15that do not cover and it is um a concern

3:08:20if any um you know fire trucks or police

3:08:23or whatever have to go through. So all

3:08:25of that has to be taken into

3:08:27consideration. But again, if you're

3:08:29going to do it on one street, just be

3:08:30fair and make sure that if another areas

3:08:34decide they want to do it, I mean, what

3:08:36would be your objection to it if you've

3:08:38already said yes to this street?

3:08:41>> Thank you.

3:08:45Thank you so much.

3:08:49>> Mr. F your turn.

3:08:54Thank you. You know, I believe in

3:08:57Councilman Lewis saying the adult gate,

3:08:58screw it, but expensive. How about the

3:09:02non-expensive things? Why about getting

3:09:05the orange barrels and putting them

3:09:08across the streets and blocking it off

3:09:11and having sandbags there? Most people

3:09:13are going to be lazy and not want to

3:09:14remove the sandbags, but have it set up

3:09:17so the fire company can get through.

3:09:20That's one question, one suggestion. You

3:09:21can do that through all the streets that

3:09:23have it. Or two, you got two sides of

3:09:26the street. Put a cement pole here. Put

3:09:29another cement pole in the other thing.

3:09:31Put a orange, bright orange chain top,

3:09:35middle thing, and have the police and

3:09:37fire company have a padlock to it that

3:09:39is weather resistance. This way, if they

3:09:41want to run it, they're going to damage

3:09:43their car. So, how much would a two

3:09:45poles cost and some thick uh chains cost

3:09:49and a cheap can of uh uh fluorescent

3:09:53orange paint? Let's go low tech. I mean,

3:09:57everyone's saying we don't have any

3:09:58money, but I guarantee you get Delta to

3:10:00put a bunch of barrels out there with

3:10:01sandbags tomorrow.

3:10:04Something to think about.

3:10:06>> Thank you.

3:10:07Um I think there was a gentleman behind

3:10:10Oh, stand by. I got you. You I got you.

3:10:12I see you. Yes. Um, you I'm going by the

3:10:14Rose. I see you. I see you, Miss McGay

3:10:17back there as well.

3:10:21Uh, Pelgro, uh, Eggorn Lane. I'm here to

3:10:26say I got the same problem

3:10:29on Eggorn Lane. People go at White Oak

3:10:33Road. Soon as they make that turn, they

3:10:35just stomp on the gas and go. So, I'm

3:10:39looking for like they're getting a

3:10:41barrier. That's why I'm here. I want to

3:10:43bury you, too.

3:10:50Thank you.

3:10:51>> That's you know what I think. Why would

3:10:55one neighborhood

3:10:57>> just just for clarity? I apologize for

3:10:58for clarity for the record. You said

3:11:00Acorn Lane.

3:11:02>> Yes. Acorn Lane.

3:11:02>> Acorn Lane. Okay. I got you.

3:11:04>> Off of White Oak.

3:11:05>> Off of White Oak.

3:11:06>> And Route Nine. Little Creek.

3:11:08>> Yep. Just wanted to make sure it was

3:11:09clear enough. take my road one way and

3:11:13throw some of the tractor trailers and

3:11:15all on another road.

3:11:18We're or I'm I'm having a dead end. Put

3:11:22Put the barriers up. Stop it. I have big

3:11:26tractor trailers coming through every

3:11:29day going to your uh Garrison uh

3:11:33development center.

3:11:36Uh it, you know, it wasn't like that

3:11:38when I bought my house or I wouldn't

3:11:41have bought it. You you can't be out

3:11:44there walking your dog or anything when

3:11:46you got these tractor trailers coming

3:11:48down.

3:11:50So like I think it'll be very unfair if

3:11:54you guys keep the barrier up. I thought

3:11:56the barrier was up because they were

3:11:58doing some road construction or

3:12:00something. I didn't know it was up

3:12:02because the people don't want cars going

3:12:04through it. If uh if the people were

3:12:08driving too fast, that's why the

3:12:11barriers up to slow people down. I mean,

3:12:15it if they're not going to slow down,

3:12:19they go too fast.

3:12:21What's the barrier going to do?

3:12:25It just don't make any sense to me.

3:12:29>> Thank you.

3:12:29>> Okay. Thank Thank you. Uh

3:12:33you say announce your name and and um

3:12:41>> Hello. My name is uh Rean Coder 406

3:12:43Kings Highway. Uh first thing I want to

3:12:46say, the last guy I talked is a dumbass.

3:12:48Uh

3:12:49>> hey, hold stand. Stand by. Stand by.

3:12:51Stand by. No, stand by.

3:12:53>> No, no, you stand by. When I'm the

3:12:55chair, you will not disrespect anybody.

3:12:58You understand? So, I don't care about

3:13:00public free speech. Respect is respect.

3:13:03This is not We're not gonna turn this

3:13:05into a show because you want so you can

3:13:08a So, so so so if you if you continue,

3:13:12y'all can make a Facebook post about me.

3:13:14Y'all should know I don't care. I will

3:13:16stop you from speaking cuz we going to

3:13:18demand respect when I chair something.

3:13:20You understand?

3:13:21>> All right.

3:13:21>> Now, say it again with respect.

3:13:25Hello, my name is Reagan Coder 406 Kings

3:13:28Highway. I do want to say I think this

3:13:32barrier is a wonderful idea. I don't

3:13:35live over here, but I used to uh you

3:13:38know ride a bike over here with my

3:13:39friend who lived on Metro Road and we

3:13:42would cut through there and there were a

3:13:44lot of cars that would speed. And I feel

3:13:49like the biggest problem is that there's

3:13:52the um

3:13:54there's the uh radar, right? But a radar

3:13:58isn't really going to stop anything, you

3:14:00know? And I feel like that's why you

3:14:02guys put the barrier up, but I feel like

3:14:04another good idea would be like a

3:14:06neighborhood watch sort of thing, you

3:14:07know, with the camera and everything. I

3:14:09know you guys were saying the stuff with

3:14:11the camera, but I feel like a

3:14:13neighborhood watch sort of concept would

3:14:15be a good idea too where you could have

3:14:18like not like a police officer, but like

3:14:20maybe like you know how like college

3:14:21dorms have like RAS and stuff like that.

3:14:23Maybe have something a concept like that

3:14:25where somebody's you know watching the

3:14:27road making sure you know nobody's

3:14:29passing by. So then that way it's not

3:14:31completely blocked off, but this person

3:14:34that is, you know, watching the road

3:14:35would have, you know, direct contact

3:14:38with a police officer. Maybe have like

3:14:40one or two cameras. Maybe have like a

3:14:42camera in the middle of the road, one on

3:14:45another side, and then one on another

3:14:46side. So then, you know, free angles of

3:14:48it. And then um I just I think there's a

3:14:52lot of you know things you guys could do

3:14:54other than just block the road, which

3:14:56I'm not against blocking the road fully,

3:14:58but I feel like there's also other

3:15:00directions that you guys could take, you

3:15:02know, especially with a concept like a

3:15:04neighborhood watch. And um I just I you

3:15:09know I um I like this idea. I like what

3:15:12you guys are doing with this. I disagree

3:15:14with a lot of things you guys do, but I

3:15:17heavily agree with this. And I'm glad

3:15:18that, you know, kids are able to be safe

3:15:20here and are able to actually like walk

3:15:24and live, you know, and that's always

3:15:27appreciated, you know, and uh it was a

3:15:29good move by you guys. And I apologize

3:15:31to uh where is he at? Did he leave?

3:15:34>> He's in the hall.

3:15:37>> I apologize to him. I I let my emotions

3:15:40get the best of me sometimes, you know,

3:15:41especially with stuff I agree with.

3:15:43Thank you. I appreciate it.

3:15:44>> Um, yeah. Thank you very much,

3:15:47>> Miss McGayerson,

3:15:49I think.

3:15:54>> Hi, uh, Don Maha, District 2. I just

3:15:58>> I'm sorry. What?

3:15:59>> Oh, that's okay. That's okay. It's been

3:16:00job my whole life. Um, I just want to

3:16:02kind of give the other side. I'm sorry

3:16:04to this family and to everybody else

3:16:06who's been affected because I was a

3:16:08speeder that went through there. Um, I

3:16:10wasn't going 50 miles an hour, but that

3:16:12while that barrier was an inconvenience

3:16:14to me and it took some time to get

3:16:16around, it it deterred me from going

3:16:20down there. I slowed down when I was

3:16:22going the other way. I think it's a very

3:16:24very very useful um tactic to provide

3:16:28safety for the community. Um but that

3:16:31has also led the barrier has led to the

3:16:34um alleyway now becoming a two-way

3:16:37street for people who used to go down

3:16:39that the alleyway behind Edge Hill. Now

3:16:42there are people going both ways down

3:16:44that alley instead of one way. So that's

3:16:46now a safety issue. But again, my

3:16:48apologies and I think it's working.

3:16:51>> Thank you, uh

3:16:53Mr. Anderson.

3:17:02Yes, Councilman Bogerty, I love what you

3:17:04said because you said everybody's going

3:17:06to want this. I'm sitting back here

3:17:07joking with the guy that's back here

3:17:09because y'all that live on that street,

3:17:11I want to come I want to come party with

3:17:13y'all. You sound like Pleasantville

3:17:14Utopia. I mean, it's it's just like,

3:17:16"Wow, everybody's saying how great it is

3:17:18and everything." So, I see why

3:17:20everybody's like, "Wow, we want this,

3:17:21too." So, y'all are fun. I want to come

3:17:22to your house. I want to have a picnic.

3:17:24We're all going to get together. Y'all

3:17:26are fun. Okay. Can we do that?

3:17:29>> Yeah. I'm like, y'all are exciting. I

3:17:31want that for my block. Let's Let's all

3:17:33do this. [laughter] Sorry. I love what

3:17:34you said, Boardy. Council Bogy, though.

3:17:36That was cute. Thank you.

3:17:40>> What that meant, but I'll take it. I

3:17:42don't know if it's a compliment or

3:17:43insult, but I'm used to them both. Love

3:17:45y'all. It's all good. Who's next?

3:17:47Anybody next? Alrighty. We're uh we're

3:17:50um we we have Councilman Anderson. The

3:17:54chair recognizes council inter

3:17:55councilman Anderson.

3:17:57>> Thank you. Um Mr. Chairman, I going to

3:18:00make a motion.

3:18:01>> Have one more.

3:18:03>> Oh, okay. I will hold a moment then.

3:18:08>> Oh. Oh, Lord. Yes. Belinda Maine. Okay.

3:18:12Uh the chair recognizes Belinda Mine

3:18:15online. Um

3:18:17>> thank you for

3:18:21>> Belinda Mine. Are you you on mute? While

3:18:24she's unmuting, can you begin to come up

3:18:26so you can uh be in place so we can do

3:18:30as expeditiously as possible?

3:18:33>> Um uh good evening, Glendon Maine. Um I

3:18:38am like I said, I am definitely happy

3:18:41that there is a barricade at that

3:18:43specific street. Um, however, like

3:18:46Bonnie had said, what you do for one

3:18:49side of the the do, you have to do for

3:18:51the other side. So, in the works of

3:18:54getting everything together, um,

3:18:56including the barricade on that street

3:18:58along with other streets that need the

3:19:01same type of speed restriction. Um, I

3:19:06believe there was a discussion about

3:19:08some type of cameras on the streets that

3:19:11are heavily um, speeding. I know we just

3:19:15like I said, thank you council for the

3:19:17street signs and everything else

3:19:19>> but they're not just they're they're not

3:19:22stopping everyone.

3:19:24>> They're mostly now not stopping the

3:19:26people that live within my

3:19:31area. Um but yes, it does stop the ones

3:19:34that are new to the area. Not saying,

3:19:37you know, we need a a barricade or

3:19:39anything, but we do need to make these

3:19:43streets that are heavily trafficking

3:19:47um one-way streets. We need to, you

3:19:50know, put the cameras up. We need to

3:19:52continue keeping that barricade there.

3:19:54Whether the alleyway behind the stores

3:19:56is used as, you know, a two-way street,

3:20:00there are dumpsters. move the dumpsters

3:20:02in the way so that it's it's not, you

3:20:05know, an inconvenience for the stores

3:20:08and everything else or the development

3:20:10that's behind it. My case, like I said,

3:20:14I'm looking forward to at least having

3:20:16cameras or flashing lights or something

3:20:18to go, hey yo, you know, we now have 25

3:20:22right in your face and you're not doing

3:20:2425, you're doing 50, you're doing 60.

3:20:27You're trying to beat the speed limit on

3:20:30the street that literally states what

3:20:33you should be doing. And it's not

3:20:36council that can do this. It's actually,

3:20:39you know, we need to start taking action

3:20:42with putting the punishments behind the

3:20:46actions that these people are doing.

3:20:48Take down license plate numbers for

3:20:49these these vehicles. Send it to the

3:20:52police department and say, "Look, this

3:20:54person was speeding down the street.

3:20:56It's not necessarily, you know,

3:20:58neighborhood watch, but it's a

3:21:01neighborhood. As they say, you can't

3:21:03raise a child alone. You raise it as,

3:21:07you know, a village. Well, we need to

3:21:09protect everyone within our village, not

3:21:12just, you know, this side of Dover, that

3:21:15side of Dover, this street, that street.

3:21:17We need to protect everyone. And we need

3:21:20to make everyone accountable for

3:21:22whatever actions that they are making

3:21:24that are not

3:21:26appropriate like speeding down the

3:21:29street. Obviously, it's a law that says

3:21:31there's a speed limit, not because we

3:21:33feel like it, but that's just because

3:21:35it's the law. So, we need to hold those

3:21:37who are not following the law

3:21:39accountable.

3:21:40And we also need to make sure that

3:21:43people are seeing these things. Bright

3:21:45lights that come on that say, "Look, 25.

3:21:49>> Don't go down the street."

3:21:52>> Thank you, Miss May. We appreciate you.

3:21:54>> Uh your comments and noted uh the chair

3:21:58recognizes you, sir, gentlemen.

3:21:59>> Thank you so much.

3:22:00>> And and it is related to this topic.

3:22:02>> It's not.

3:22:03>> Okay. then I'm going to have to ask you

3:22:06to to table that for open discussion

3:22:08because if it's not within the scope, we

3:22:10have to stay within scope of our of our

3:22:12topic. What's on the agenda? Because if

3:22:14it's not an agenda item, then

3:22:16>> when will be the next agenda?

3:22:18>> Well, we have open form or depending on

3:22:22Yeah. Well, open form was yesterday. So,

3:22:24it's in two Mondays from now. open form

3:22:27or you can submit your your concerns to

3:22:29the city clerk six clerk's office via

3:22:32email and respond and or we address it

3:22:35at the next opportunity which is open

3:22:37form.

3:22:38>> Okay, I apologize. I misunderstood.

3:22:41>> No, no problem. Thank you. Yep, you

3:22:42showed up. We appreciate you. Thank you

3:22:44for being a concerned citizen. Now that

3:22:47there's no other issues, um we have uh

3:22:50what's called um before us. We have our

3:22:53staff recommendations. We've had a lot

3:22:54of opinions. Um, would any one of my

3:22:57colleagues or committee members like to

3:22:59make uh you have a question?

3:23:02>> I just want to make a motion.

3:23:06>> Thank you. Um, and and if they want to

3:23:08discuss, that's fine. I I just move that

3:23:11we uh uh continue the um the the current

3:23:18uh safety arrangement and uh ask staff

3:23:22to review some of the options here

3:23:24tonight and and bring us back um other

3:23:29options. And I I do think that some of

3:23:32these other roads by the way u we we do

3:23:35need to look at longer run with u items

3:23:40such as you know striping more of our

3:23:43roads and and other things that but but

3:23:46this road is unique Mr. Chairman has it

3:23:49even with the closure it has two

3:23:51entrances. It's only a 24- ft road,

3:23:56which um if it were built today, it

3:23:59wouldn't be a two-way street. It is um

3:24:04it has no sidewalk

3:24:06and is um

3:24:09and it's connecting a commercial dis

3:24:11heavily traveled commercial district. So

3:24:13there aren't really any other roads

3:24:15similarly situated in the city.

3:24:18that apply. So I just move that we

3:24:20continue the the current arrangement and

3:24:23staff uh comes back with a um

3:24:26recommendation.

3:24:28>> It's been properly moved and seconded by

3:24:31um by members of the committee. Are you

3:24:33ready for the question? All those in

3:24:34favor signify by saying

3:24:36>> I by consent. The motion carries. Thank

3:24:39you.

3:24:39>> Point of order. Point of order.

3:24:42Oh,

3:24:44>> you didn't you didn't discuss you didn't

3:24:46discussion.

3:24:47>> Okay. Okay. Discussion. I didn't I

3:24:49didn't see you.

3:24:53>> Uh

3:24:56>> thank you. I have no objection in

3:24:58supporting Councilman Anderson's

3:25:00ordinance uh with the agreement that uh

3:25:03Mr. Lion looks into uh the gate option

3:25:07uh closing off the road permanently uh

3:25:10or cement barriers.

3:25:13>> Think that was part of the uh motion as

3:25:16well.

3:25:17>> Yeah. Uh I wanted to make sure though

3:25:19that's put on the record.

3:25:21>> Okay. Thank you. Any other discussion?

3:25:24All right. The been properly moved and

3:25:26second. Are you ready for the question?

3:25:28All those in favor signif.

3:25:30>> I by consent the motion carries. Uh we

3:25:33move to agenda item two. Uh depending on

3:25:37where you from Lockerman or closest is

3:25:39Lucerman Plaza pedestrian improvements

3:25:41update of Paul Moser Delot and J Jason

3:25:45Lion assistant city manager.

3:25:47>> Good evening chair uh fellow team

3:25:49members in the city of Dover. Uh Jason

3:25:51Lion, assistant city manager. I'm going

3:25:53to introduce Paul and not uh labor the

3:25:55point, but this is a followup for a um a

3:25:58topic that we had in late April with

3:26:00regard to some safety improvements in

3:26:02front of city hall. Thank you.

3:26:06>> Yeah. Hey council, um thanks for having

3:26:09me. I appreciate it. And a quick aside,

3:26:11can I make a comment real quick just

3:26:13personally about that last part? Four

3:26:15miles an hour decrease in 85th

3:26:17percentile speed is a big deal. I do a

3:26:20lot of projects like that. that is

3:26:21successful and those testimonies are

3:26:24even more successful. So I know you guys

3:26:26got a lot of challenges ahead of you

3:26:28with decisions to make but um big props

3:26:31to you guys both staff and council for

3:26:33just doing something and getting started

3:26:35>> because that's I know that's hard in the

3:26:37traffic space because everyone interacts

3:26:39with it. So

3:26:41>> yeah, just kudos to you guys on that.

3:26:42>> Thank you.

3:26:42>> Um so I'm here to just follow up like

3:26:45Jason said. Uh we presented on a project

3:26:47concept that we had that came to us at

3:26:49Dell DOT. Um, by the way, my name is

3:26:50Paul Moser, professional engineer with

3:26:52the Delaware Department of

3:26:52Transportation, active transportation

3:26:54and community connection section. We do

3:26:56walking, cycling, urban streetscape

3:26:58projects. So, this project came to us

3:27:00from the Doverkent MO uh came into our

3:27:03program uh last year um ranked well uh

3:27:09very heavily pedestrian traffic to area.

3:27:12Um this project can make a big impact on

3:27:14connectivity and improving the safety in

3:27:16that area. So, we moved that into

3:27:18project development and last time I came

3:27:20to you guys, we were just kicking off

3:27:22the project to look at what those

3:27:23improvements might look like. Um, Dover

3:27:25Kent in their downtown do pathways plan

3:27:27had a couple of options, mostly just

3:27:29related to connecting the sidewalk, uh,

3:27:31and putting some crossings in near the

3:27:33library and improving transit. Uh, next

3:27:35slide, please. So, uh, a couple of the

3:27:37goals, uh, really just to try and slow

3:27:40down traffic. nothing crazy. Uh but you

3:27:43know, those are about like I think 24

3:27:44foot wide lanes in both directions with

3:27:46parking. Um very very it's a lot of

3:27:49pavement space. So make the make some

3:27:52crossings, some midblock crossings that

3:27:53people could cross. There's not really a

3:27:55great location to cross in the middle of

3:27:56the plaza. You just kind of do it. Uh

3:27:59but formalizing those locations a little

3:28:00bit and trying to put in a little bit of

3:28:01help to make it more visible. uh

3:28:03including installing rectangular rapid

3:28:06flash beacons, little uh yellow flashy

3:28:08lights that pulse the same as a lot of

3:28:09EMS light patterns. Um uh looking at

3:28:13changing some of the crossovers again,

3:28:15adding sidewalk extending from where the

3:28:17coffee shop is headed towards the east.

3:28:19Uh make the crossing of Federal Street

3:28:21make a little more sense and try and

3:28:22make things look a little bit nicer.

3:28:24Next slide, please. So this is kind of

3:28:26the concept. I'm going to go into a

3:28:28little the details around it, but it's a

3:28:30relatively small compact project, but we

3:28:32think that it's going to make things a

3:28:34little bit nicer around here. Uh this is

3:28:36really the extent is just on the other

3:28:38side of the bank entrance from town hall

3:28:41up to uh you know about the crossover of

3:28:44Federal Street. Next slide, please.

3:28:47So, zooming in uh on this section at the

3:28:49library, this is pretty simple. There's

3:28:50there's there's two main parts I'm gonna

3:28:52focus on. One is the midblock pedestrian

3:28:54crossing. You can't really see with the

3:28:56lighting on this screen, but we're

3:28:57putting in a crosswalk uh that's going

3:28:59to connect from the library directly to

3:29:01Federal Street. You can see down on the

3:29:03bottom right of that screen on Federal

3:29:05Street. We're also doing what's called a

3:29:06curb extension on both sides. Uh that

3:29:09does two things. That's going to

3:29:10decrease the pedestrian crossing

3:29:11distance of Lockerman and Federal. So,

3:29:13it's a shorter, smaller distance to

3:29:15cross. It's going to improve sight lines

3:29:16of people making those turns. Um

3:29:19hopefully slow people down making that

3:29:20right-hand turn. And then also, there's

3:29:22a bus stop on the bottom right side. So,

3:29:25the bus will now be able to board in the

3:29:27lane, which is the preference of DART

3:29:29for state transit. Um, and you know,

3:29:32that'll be more green space and, you

3:29:34know, I think make the place look a lot

3:29:36nicer. Um, it'll be like a nice tidy

3:29:38improvement. We're going to extend the

3:29:40median crossover to put a sidewalk so

3:29:42you can get that crosswalk and then on

3:29:43the top side by the library, we're going

3:29:44to put a little curb extension. So

3:29:46again, the goal there is just to create

3:29:48a very very visible place where people

3:29:50can and should be crossing uh and try

3:29:52and make that as safe as possible. Uh

3:29:54should I stop if Oops. Yeah. Two

3:29:56questions each piece. No, go ahead.

3:29:59>> Hold on. Hold on. For the record, the

3:30:01chair recognizes that.

3:30:02>> Yeah. Thank Thank you for that. Um

3:30:06so uh in regards to Delda capital

3:30:09projects and objectives, do you ever

3:30:11come across a scenario where um what you

3:30:15have implemented may need to be walked

3:30:17back because it's not conducive

3:30:20uh to the business owner or safe. And

3:30:23I'm talking particularly to I think it's

3:30:27I think it's West Division Street in

3:30:29front of uh Benny Smith Funeral Home.

3:30:33>> Yeah. Yeah, the two way.

3:30:34>> We've had a lot of

3:30:35>> Oh, I hear about it. My supervisor is

3:30:37the project manager.

3:30:38>> Okay.

3:30:38>> Yeah, I'm aware of

3:30:40>> it. It I really really really need them

3:30:45to walk that back if possible, you know,

3:30:48because um it impedes upon their

3:30:51business and the when they're dealing

3:30:53with, you know, the bereavement process.

3:30:56>> Yeah, I encourage you to reach out to

3:30:57either Dell. PR on that or if you have

3:30:59the history pass with my supervisor Jeff

3:31:01Nisa reach out to them on that topic

3:31:03because I'm

3:31:04>> right but if you could just convey

3:31:06>> Oh, I'll mention it. Sure. Yes.

3:31:07>> That we are interested um because we

3:31:11brought this up before and not to take

3:31:13up your time but since we we're on you

3:31:15know bicycling because I do the

3:31:16bicycling as well um it's not that safe

3:31:20and um you know it does impede upon you

3:31:23know the breast.

3:31:25>> A letter from the city to Delta would

3:31:28definitely convey that. I would

3:31:29appreciate that. However, um moving away

3:31:32from that topic, still on the biking

3:31:34topic, uh my fellow Councilman uh Rosha,

3:31:37Councilman Rosha and I, we've talked

3:31:39about the multi-use

3:31:42pathway instead of um the the 4ft

3:31:45walkway,

3:31:48where are we with implementing the

3:31:50six-foot or the 8ft asphalt

3:31:52multi-purpose so that those individuals

3:31:56um who feel safer riding their bike,

3:31:58riding, you know um

3:32:01>> see when it comes to ebikes versus uh

3:32:04those individuals who are pedaling

3:32:06there's a difference um I know I feel

3:32:08safer I don't have ebike but I feel

3:32:10safer on the sidewalk versus um in the

3:32:13bike lane those who have the ebike um

3:32:17they don't have to really pay too much

3:32:19attention to you know bicycling actually

3:32:22the physical component of bicycling and

3:32:24then also looking to see if the traffic

3:32:25is coming because they they don't have

3:32:27to ble just you know cruising and you

3:32:29know. Um so in other words, where are we

3:32:32or is there any plans to convert some of

3:32:35these sidewalks like they did on

3:32:36Salsbury Road to multi-purpose

3:32:40um 6 to 8 foot um walkways. I think that

3:32:43would be a little bit more conducive. Uh

3:32:46try also going green, you know, I think

3:32:48that'd be a little more conducive for us

3:32:50like they do in Lewis and in the beach

3:32:52area.

3:32:53>> So have y'all had some discussion in

3:32:55that matter?

3:32:56>> Uh yes. So this project is all six foot

3:32:58concrete sidewalk. What you're referring

3:33:00to be like a shared use path which is

3:33:02usually 8 to 12 feet wide.

3:33:03>> But but typically doesn't that those six

3:33:05to 8 ft aren't they those multi those

3:33:07multi Aren't they usually starts at 8 to

3:33:1010 when path? Yeah. Sometimes we have

3:33:13concrete ones.

3:33:14>> We did a wide one on West Street just

3:33:16recently which is 10 foot concrete.

3:33:18>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's pretty fun.

3:33:20>> And the reason why and the reason why I

3:33:22say that is because typically when you

3:33:24see the asphalt one you know

3:33:26indicator that it's a multi-purpose

3:33:29countries have different color

3:33:29>> versus just a wider um concrete. They

3:33:32thinking that's, you know, they're not

3:33:33really thinking that it's multi-purpose

3:33:36to that extent.

3:33:37>> Yeah. So, for this project, last time I

3:33:39came to you, the dom proposal did

3:33:41mention improving the bike lanes and I

3:33:43asked you all specifically about that

3:33:44and there was not an interest to go into

3:33:46the the bike facility side for this

3:33:48project and to focus on the pedestrian

3:33:50angle of it. um largely because with the

3:33:52scope of the project where we were, we

3:33:54weren't able to make, in my opinion,

3:33:56very meaningful bicycle infrastructure.

3:33:58Uh sure, you could put a wide sidewalk,

3:34:00but in this area, unless it connects out

3:34:02to the um what is that, the the bikeway

3:34:05across the bridge, uh that's a big

3:34:07missing gap in the bicycle network. So,

3:34:09in order to make a sort of bicyclloring

3:34:11improvement, our scope would have been

3:34:12much larger. So, if you guys remember

3:34:15last time we brought this up and the the

3:34:18advice that I got was to keep it on the

3:34:19pedestrian side. So, in this instance,

3:34:21we're doing more of a

3:34:22pedestrian-oriented project. Um, and you

3:34:25know, uh, yeah. Does that make sense? Do

3:34:28you guys recall that the same way that I

3:34:29do?

3:34:30>> Absolutely.

3:34:31>> Yes.

3:34:33>> I don't I don't recall it that way. I

3:34:36recall it, but we did I think Councilman

3:34:38Rosha, I think we did heavily inquire

3:34:40about the multi-purpose use 6 to 8 foot

3:34:44um um asphalt walkway more so than than

3:34:48just the pedestrian walk because we knew

3:34:50that we were going um we were looking at

3:34:53the ebikes, we were looking at the the

3:34:55alternative immobiles. I I'll yield to

3:34:58that. I

3:34:59>> I don't recall uh but I know that you

3:35:01and I have had that conversation. trying

3:35:03to recall if I at the right now my memor

3:35:05is not not there but uh I do have an

3:35:10affinity towards the multi-purpose

3:35:13bike lanes but you know that doesn't

3:35:16mean we hadn't

3:35:18>> emphasized that at that time

3:35:22you go ahead and are

3:35:25>> yeah I mean I'm happy to address any of

3:35:27you want to finish your presentation

3:35:29>> uh sure yeah happy to follow up on this

3:35:31finish Um, so you guys understand sort

3:35:34of the improvements I'm showing there.

3:35:35There's the midblock crossing, the curb

3:35:36extensions, uh, the transit bus

3:35:39platform. Okay, you can go to the next

3:35:41slide. Oh, and actually back up. Sorry,

3:35:43too soon. Uh, and then the rectangular

3:35:45rapid flashing beacon would also be

3:35:47there. So there'd be a push button

3:35:48pedestrians could use if they want to

3:35:49cross. Um, they don't need to, but it

3:35:51would just extra, you know, active

3:35:53reinforcement that someone's crossing

3:35:54there. And those tend to improve

3:35:56yielding compliance of vehicles some

3:35:58cases very significantly. We have a lot

3:36:00of success with them in the state. Next

3:36:01slide, please. Um, down here, this is to

3:36:05some extent the meat of the project. I

3:36:06think this is going to really tidy

3:36:07things up a lot from a pedestrian

3:36:08perspective. Um, that midblock island

3:36:11next to the church that that planted

3:36:13median island. We would extend the curb

3:36:15on that in order to fit in a sixoot

3:36:17pathway with a grass buffer. Um, and

3:36:19then pedestrian crosswalk so you can

3:36:20walk, you know, over uh down the street

3:36:23and then a crosswalk at Federal Street

3:36:25right next to our bus island. Um, really

3:36:28right now that situation is very

3:36:30awkward.

3:36:31uh to cross at. So we think this is

3:36:33going to make a nice little improvement.

3:36:35Uh next slide, please. And then this is

3:36:38the request that you guys had mentioned

3:36:39last time was having a crossing at this

3:36:41end of the project um in order to go

3:36:43over kind of the coffee shop area. Um so

3:36:45this would be another curb extension um

3:36:48at right past the PNC Bank entrance

3:36:51where that lets out. So that'll again

3:36:53shorten the pedestrian crossings. Uh

3:36:55we're going to extend the median island

3:36:56in the middle a little bit so you get

3:36:58the sidewalk there. Uh, a couple of

3:37:00things. We're also proposing putting an

3:37:02no left turns out sign on that median

3:37:05crossing. I also looked into actually

3:37:07just uh filling in and extending the

3:37:09median islands entirely and we kind of

3:37:12figured that was beyond the scope of our

3:37:14project. The budget to do that is higher

3:37:16than we had sort of allocated for this

3:37:17project. So, um, we still would like to

3:37:21try and disincentivize people from

3:37:23taking a left out of the bank and

3:37:25curving around. So, uh, yeah, we're

3:37:27going to extend that media island. I

3:37:28think it's about like 20 ft or something

3:37:30like that. And uh put in a no left turn

3:37:33sign there.

3:37:36>> Uh my my question is does this require

3:37:38the roads to be shut down at all?

3:37:41>> Probably want to maintain access the

3:37:42whole time.

3:37:43>> You so there will be no

3:37:45>> there will be probably flaggers. Maybe

3:37:46there'll be some parking restrictions at

3:37:48sometimes that median crossover might be

3:37:50closed down. Um but I don't anticipate a

3:37:53full closure of lockermen. If we had to

3:37:54we could coordinate with you guys. um

3:37:57night work

3:37:58>> and how long would it how long is this

3:38:00project?

3:38:00>> We're very early in the concept phase so

3:38:02we don't have kind of construction

3:38:03phases.

3:38:03>> You don't have a chart though.

3:38:05>> No, we're not there yet. So, uh we can

3:38:07coordinate with you guys on that. I'll

3:38:08make sure that we know that's a

3:38:10sensitive topic, but uh we usually we

3:38:12can get away with things like this using

3:38:14partial closures.

3:38:15>> Okay. Thank you. Any uh the chair

3:38:17recognizes um interim president

3:38:19Anderson.

3:38:20>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to

3:38:22thank you because when I I looked at

3:38:24this in the packet, it was pretty much

3:38:27exactly what I recognized that we uh had

3:38:31talked about and I and that it was uh

3:38:34because we have to um including the new

3:38:38uh crosswalk area um because we get a

3:38:43lot of traffic over between city hall

3:38:45and and across. So, thank you. I yield.

3:38:49Chair recognizes Councilwoman Art.

3:38:52>> Thank you. Thank you for your patience

3:38:53and being here tonight. I know you got

3:38:55to go to work tomorrow. Um, as we all

3:38:57do,

3:38:57>> entertaining. I don't usually come here,

3:38:59so this is uh, you know, something.

3:39:01>> A couple questions. Um, well, just a

3:39:03statement really. Um, with the the

3:39:05pathways, I just want to make sure that

3:39:07the material used is in keeping with the

3:39:09context of a historic downtown. I would

3:39:12not want to see an asphalt walkway uh,

3:39:14in that vicinity. I don't think it it

3:39:16just doesn't go with our brick sidewalks

3:39:18and our cement sidewalks. My other

3:39:21question is um at the bus stop. So in

3:39:25this concept, the bus would be stopping

3:39:28in the lane and stopping traffic.

3:39:31>> Yes,

3:39:33>> I'm not totally sold on that. I think

3:39:36the way the bus stops now, you can still

3:39:38maneuver around it and traffic continues

3:39:40to flow. Um, I think I would prefer to

3:39:43to keep it that way rather than the bus

3:39:46stopping traffic in the lane. But

3:39:47>> yeah, if I remember correctly, there

3:39:49actually probably is enough space to get

3:39:50around a bus, but I'll confirm that it's

3:39:53very wide there. Um, but yeah, that is

3:39:55sort of DART's, you know, preferred way

3:39:57of loading and unloading a bus is in the

3:40:00lane. Um, increasingly, you know,

3:40:01especially on that corner, too. People

3:40:03can park in the way of it and obstruct

3:40:05uh where the bus stop is. I have seen

3:40:08that occasionally. I can't say that I've

3:40:09paid a ton of attention to it, but you

3:40:11know, City Wilmington happens all the

3:40:12time and if you have people with

3:40:14disabilities who have to unload a

3:40:15wheelchair, that becomes a real

3:40:17accessibility hazard. So, you know, this

3:40:20is, I guess, probably the elbows out

3:40:22concept on this topic. We wanted to see

3:40:24what you guys thought about that. So,

3:40:26that is a good point of conversation for

3:40:28all of you. And another great point of

3:40:29conversation you brought up was the

3:40:30brick sidewalks. This concept shown here

3:40:33is uh showing concrete. And if you guys

3:40:36want to have brick sidewalks, I would

3:40:38like to know from, you know, a mixture

3:40:39of council and staff what your uh

3:40:42preference is on that because we would

3:40:44default towards concrete usually. Um our

3:40:48Americans Disabilities Act people tend

3:40:50to prefer that, but there's no reason we

3:40:52can't also do brick. So, we are

3:40:53flexible, but recommendations coming

3:40:55from our accessibility people are

3:40:57usually concrete, but you know, there's

3:40:59a bit of a conflict with a historic area

3:41:00in the context that we understand and

3:41:02we're sensitive to.

3:41:04Thank you for that. I appreciate the

3:41:06efforts. I just ask that the the look

3:41:08and feel be consistent with what is

3:41:09existing. I yield.

3:41:12>> Thank you. The chair recognizes

3:41:13Councilman Rosha.

3:41:15>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um on uh slide

3:41:1844

3:41:21where um the island in front of um

3:41:26the church and the daycare center

3:41:30where the sidewalk is going to be. I

3:41:32guess you're going to extend that part

3:41:33out

3:41:35>> further into the street.

3:41:36>> Yes.

3:41:37>> Is that is the parking gonna because

3:41:39right now there's

3:41:40>> parking will move up with it. Yes. All

3:41:41the parking will be

3:41:42>> And there's enough room for that or

3:41:44>> Yes, plenty.

3:41:44>> Okay. And then parking on the other side

3:41:47too.

3:41:47>> Yes. Parking there's going to be I

3:41:50believe two spaces impacted in front of

3:41:52the library. Um we can probably even

3:41:55minimize that to one if we're careful.

3:41:57And then with the uh bus loading area, I

3:42:01believe that's

3:42:03three spaces. Um but you know, people

3:42:06really shouldn't probably be parking in

3:42:09>> I don't think anybody parks on that

3:42:10side. No.

3:42:11>> Okay. Yeah.

3:42:12>> But I know they use one, two front of

3:42:15city hall almost. I think it is along

3:42:17there that there's three or four parking

3:42:20spaces there. Um, and then the trees are

3:42:24going to get cut back or if they need to

3:42:27be, yes. Um,

3:42:30yeah. Yeah, they would be. And that's

3:42:31something that from an accessibility

3:42:33standpoint, you guys would probably be

3:42:34on the hook for long-term maintenance

3:42:36of.

3:42:36>> Okay.

3:42:36>> Uh, that said, we do have a grass buffer

3:42:39that we're showing there. And, you know,

3:42:40that's usually for comfort and

3:42:42perception of safety for people walking

3:42:44on the sidewalk, but

3:42:45>> um, we can probably squeeze an extra

3:42:48two. We could push the sidewall closer

3:42:49to the curb if you really wanted to um

3:42:52to a little more room from the tree

3:42:54limbs.

3:42:55>> Yeah.

3:42:56>> But yeah, that's not something that we

3:42:57uh we didn't necessarily consider that

3:42:58in the concept phase.

3:43:00>> Okay. Okay. All right.

3:43:02>> It's a good point though.

3:43:03>> Thank you. I yield.

3:43:04>> Right. Thank you. All righty. Well,

3:43:07there's no further action. There's no

3:43:09action um required. Um I've got more

3:43:12slides.

3:43:12>> Oh, you have more slides. I apologize.

3:43:14Slide on. I made this last week so my

3:43:16memory is a bit um

3:43:19crosswalk. All right, next slide please.

3:43:21Um so here we are uh summer at the end

3:43:24of summer. I guess you asked the

3:43:26beginning of fall. So we want to do a

3:43:27public workshop. I was thinking November

3:43:2910th. I have that tenatively penced in

3:43:31my calendar. Unless there's something

3:43:34uh really hopping going on in Dover that

3:43:37I should know about. Um we're going to

3:43:40host a public workshop somewhere. I was

3:43:41thinking the library unless you guys

3:43:43have a better venue for that. Sometimes

3:43:45these workshops we get seven people you

3:43:47know but it's part of our process. Uh

3:43:50and then our goal is you know we're

3:43:51actually working right now on our

3:43:52preliminary plan set. We'll be sending

3:43:54it over to Jason soon so that he can

3:43:55review that. We can also incorporate

3:43:57some of the feedback now especially

3:43:58about sort of materials um and

3:44:00maintenance like fine-tuning stuff. And

3:44:03our goal is to wrap up the design of

3:44:05this project uh in early 2027. So, we're

3:44:08sort of on a fast design course for this

3:44:10one. Uh, and then assuming that we have

3:44:13budget in the program, which we should,

3:44:15but we're getting pounded by inflation

3:44:17right now. So, hopefully we'll get that

3:44:21ready to bid. Um, that'll probably be

3:44:24maybe in construction late 2027. Um, if

3:44:28everything goes to plan, but I say if

3:44:30with a it's a strong if. There are

3:44:34potential holdups that could uh threaten

3:44:36the schedule a little bit. But that's

3:44:38what we're going for. It's our

3:44:39optimistic schedule.

3:44:44>> Last slide.

3:44:45>> Next. Next slide.

3:44:46>> Last slide. Okay. All right.

3:44:48>> Go. Yeah. November 10th. Um I thought I

3:44:50had nine. I thought nine was the number.

3:44:52Uh I already went into this. Yeah. Not

3:44:53confirmed. November 10th. I think we're

3:44:55going to do that. Uh yeah. Next slide.

3:44:57And then if you have any questions,

3:44:58yeah, you guys can reach me at any time.

3:45:03>> Yes.

3:45:03>> Great.

3:45:05>> You have a question? Uh just a quick

3:45:07statement u Mr. Chairman uh November

3:45:0910th is fine if that's what you want. I

3:45:12just want you to be aware that is the

3:45:15night of uh council committee of the

3:45:17whole

3:45:18>> and you guys start at 6, right?

3:45:20>> Yes.

3:45:20>> Okay.

3:45:21>> Thank you.

3:45:22>> Should I should I should we pregame it

3:45:23and have like a 5 a.m. 5:00 pm workshop?

3:45:27Nothing wrong with that.

3:45:29>> Nothing wrong with that.

3:45:30>> That sound good? Okay. Maybe I'll see if

3:45:32the library is open at 5. Thank you.

3:45:34>> That'd be cool.

3:45:38All right.

3:45:39>> There's no there's no no. Thank you.

3:45:42>> Thank you.

3:45:43>> If there Thank you.

3:45:46If there are no other uh questions, I'll

3:45:48um call for the adjournment of our

3:45:50meeting or the safety advisory

3:45:52transportation.

3:45:55And um I'll turn it back over to our

3:45:58interim council president.

3:46:00>> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The

3:46:04next item on the agenda is the

3:46:06legislative finance administration

3:46:08committee. The legislative finance

3:46:10administration committee is now called

3:46:12to order.

3:46:15>> We have uh before the adoption of the

3:46:18agenda. Uh is there a motion?

3:46:21>> So moved.

3:46:22>> Second.

3:46:29>> Okay. Is there u there was a motion

3:46:33second? Um all discussion all in favor?

3:46:38>> I

3:46:39>> any opposed?

3:46:42Motion carries.

3:46:45Uh first item on the agenda is uh get

3:46:50work foundation presentation youth

3:46:52sports and community center feasibility

3:46:55study proposal. Mr. Dante Daniel, chief

3:46:58operating officer and TZ Trod, chief

3:47:02executive officer.

3:47:06Thank you, gentlemen.

3:47:09And when you and when you uh make sure

3:47:12please uh for the recording that at the

3:47:15first time to say your name for the

3:47:17record so that they have attributed to

3:47:21the right person. Thank you, Mr. Tro.

3:47:25Good evening, mayor, city council

3:47:27members.

3:47:28>> Thank you. My name is Terz Tri. I am the

3:47:31CEO and co-founder of the Get Work

3:47:34Foundation.

3:47:36>> My name is Don, Dr. Dante Daniel. I'm

3:47:38the C chief operating officer of Get

3:47:40Work Foundation.

3:47:42>> Thank you for allowing us to uh present

3:47:44tonight. I also want to thank everyone

3:47:46who stuck with us. This has been long.

3:47:49We appreciate and we appreciate you guys

3:47:51sticking behind us. Um, the reason why

3:47:54we're here is because we are proposing

3:47:56that the city take the first responsible

3:47:58step in exploring a youth sports and

3:48:01performance center.

3:48:04>> Oh, I'm sorry. Can you guys hear me?

3:48:06>> Yeah.

3:48:06>> Okay. Got it.

3:48:08>> Um, we're not asking um the city to

3:48:11improve uh to uh for money for

3:48:13construction for debt or u operation.

3:48:18Um, we're asking for independent study

3:48:21so everyone can make a future decision

3:48:23based on facts. Next slide, please.

3:48:28Um, our request is for up to 50,000

3:48:33uh for economic development from the

3:48:36economic development fund for

3:48:37independent market financial feasibility

3:48:40economic impact study. The study will

3:48:43test demands, compare possible sites and

3:48:46facility size, estimate costs, measure

3:48:50economic benefits, and independent

3:48:52realistic funding options. The

3:48:55consultant may recommend that Dover

3:48:57proceed modify the concept, phase it

3:49:00out, relocate, or stop. This is exactly

3:49:04why the study matters. Again, approving

3:49:07the request will not approve a building,

3:49:10a debt, a site or operations.

3:49:14Next slide, please.

3:49:18What the study does, the study will

3:49:20answer three basic questions. Is there

3:49:22enough real demand? Can it operate

3:49:25responsibility responsibly?

3:49:28And what economic value could do

3:49:30receive? This is fact. This is the factf

3:49:33finding step that just happened before a

3:49:35larger public decision has been made.

3:49:40Next slide, please.

3:49:43We conducted a study uh a survey, I'm

3:49:47sorry. We conducted a survey. Um 609

3:49:50people completed the survey.

3:49:53Uh 597

3:49:55came from Delaware residents. Almost 96%

3:49:59supported exploring the center. Almost

3:50:0290% of their household said they would

3:50:05likely use it. Residents place a

3:50:08greatest the greatest value on youth

3:50:10sports and recreation. They also

3:50:12identify safety out of school

3:50:14programming, health and wellness,

3:50:16workforce development

3:50:18as important outcomes. We understand

3:50:21that a community survey is not a

3:50:23feasible study. It shows strong interest

3:50:26and perceived need

3:50:28which is why a independent market study

3:50:31analysis should come next.

3:50:34Next slide please.

3:50:39Kent County juvenile increase

3:50:42sorry juvenile arrest increased from 302

3:50:46in 2001 to 651 in 2003. These figures

3:50:52represent arrests, not account of unique

3:50:54youth. We're not claiming that the

3:50:58absence of sports centers will uh

3:51:01decrease crime

3:51:03or the facility will um decrease it as

3:51:05well. The trend does show that do should

3:51:08consider adding more supervised

3:51:10activities, mentorship, leadership

3:51:13programs, employment pathways, and

3:51:15support before young people entered the

3:51:17justice system. The center should be

3:51:20evaluated as a part of Dover's broader

3:51:23prevention efforts. Next slide, please.

3:51:27What prevention looks like? The building

3:51:29alone cannot create change. The

3:51:32programming inside creates change. The

3:51:34center could bring together after school

3:51:36programming, mentorship,

3:51:39leadership,

3:51:41training as well as community service

3:51:44connections. These are the type of

3:51:46approaches supports by youth development

3:51:49and violence prevention research.

3:51:53Next slide, please.

3:51:57The concept is a year-round facility

3:51:59built for residents and events. The

3:52:01concept u possible uses for the facility

3:52:04would be sports courts, indoor turf,

3:52:09training, ice activities, education,

3:52:13workforce programs,

3:52:16wellness, and virtual golf. Again, we're

3:52:18not asking to approve every feature. The

3:52:21study will determine the right size and

3:52:24which uses are sustainable.

3:52:27Next slide.

3:52:32Do already understands the sports

3:52:35visitors support retails, hotels,

3:52:38restaurants, and entertainment

3:52:40businesses through NASCAR. We're not

3:52:43saying that youth sports are equal to

3:52:45NASCAR. We're not comparing youth sports

3:52:48directly to NASCAR. The study will test

3:52:50whether tournaments can create smaller

3:52:53but recurring visitors activities

3:52:55throughout the year. A independent study

3:52:58will test opportunities instead of

3:53:00asking council to accept any

3:53:02assumptions.

3:53:04Next slide, please.

3:53:09Delaware already recognized sports

3:53:10tourism as an economic development.

3:53:13State data shows that generating

3:53:16spending, jobs, and tax revenue. The

3:53:18state

3:53:20allocated 10 million again for fiscal

3:53:23year 2026 in sports tourism capital

3:53:26investment fund. State data reports that

3:53:29sports tourism produced nearly 250

3:53:32million in direct spending in 2023

3:53:36along with business sales, jobs, state

3:53:38and local tes.

3:53:40The study will not determine whether the

3:53:42project could compete for future

3:53:44funding. We know no funding is

3:53:46guaranteed.

3:53:47We also know that DE Turf received 7

3:53:51million in total from the sports tourism

3:53:53fund in fiscal year 2024 and 2026.

3:54:00Okay. Um so just to piggy back off this

3:54:03slide um basically sports tours is a new

3:54:06buzzing means of generating revenue. Um

3:54:09next slide please.

3:54:12So what we have here are planning

3:54:15scenarios from our proposal. These are

3:54:17not forecasts. These are not guarantees.

3:54:18But let's just go with an established

3:54:21route of let's just say we became

3:54:22somewhat of an established sports

3:54:24facility. There would be 16 tournaments

3:54:26on average about 14,000 visitors which

3:54:29would generate just about $3 million

3:54:31annually. Right? Money like that can be

3:54:34utilized for salary increases for Dober

3:54:36Police Department.

3:54:37higher salaries for our educa public

3:54:39school educators as well as possibly

3:54:42universal prek three and prek4 for

3:54:45residents of uh the city of do. Um what

3:54:48we don't want to do is just be super

3:54:51optimistic. We want actual independent

3:54:54study that is objective, thorough, and

3:54:57will actually provide us uh

3:55:00a accurate analysis of what the

3:55:02projections could be for the specific

3:55:05city of the city of Dover. So, next

3:55:07slide, please.

3:55:10Um, what we do know is that the city is

3:55:13experiencing uh a fiscal reality. Um, I

3:55:16think other cities are experiencing as

3:55:18well. So, I don't want to make it seem

3:55:19like the city of Dover is unique. Um, we

3:55:22do know that the city had approximately

3:55:23about a $7 million deficit, uh, which

3:55:26therefore

3:55:28caused, you know, spending cuts and

3:55:30additional revenue measures. So, we know

3:55:32that spending reduced by about $23

3:55:34million uh just in one fiscal year. Um

3:55:38which is leaves us at about $58 million

3:55:41in the general fund. Um

3:55:44the number one priority of this idea is

3:55:47the sports complex is to generate

3:55:49revenue for the city by also providing a

3:55:51social good. We're not looking at means

3:55:53of increasing taxes upon the residents

3:55:55because when deficits like that occur,

3:55:58utility taxes, property taxes go up.

3:56:00we've seen it for FY26. So to mitigate

3:56:03that, to combat that, we have to explore

3:56:06means of generating revenue for the city

3:56:08of Dover. Um we can't just sit back and

3:56:11hope or hold on to money and not

3:56:14necessarily explore um options. What

3:56:16we're asking for is a small investment

3:56:18of $50,000

3:56:20for this facility to actually conduct

3:56:22the independent study and show that the

3:56:24city of Dover has a level of investment

3:56:26in this. So when we go to the state,

3:56:28that therefore strengthens our

3:56:30credibility. It strengthens our argument

3:56:32when we try to acquire funding from

3:56:34measures such as the sports tourism

3:56:36fund, which is $10 million annually um

3:56:38that the state provides. Again, 4.1

3:56:40million just went to uh Delaware turfs

3:56:43for FY26.

3:56:45We could do a lot with $4.1 million uh

3:56:47as far as our facility. In addition,

3:56:49there is the community redevelopment

3:56:51fund. That's $20 million annually that's

3:56:54offered by the state. We acquired

3:56:58from the sports tourism fund, I believe

3:57:00Dover Raceway received 500,000 of that.

3:57:04So, this is a pot of money we're not

3:57:05necessarily um accessing. Uh as well as

3:57:08there is community development grants at

3:57:11the USDA. Uh we're considered a rural

3:57:13city. Um we're a population of under

3:57:1650,000. So therefore, that puts us at

3:57:20with the ability to apply for these

3:57:21grants, but we're not necessarily uh

3:57:23taking advantage or um

3:57:27you know,

3:57:30accessing that means of um revenue for

3:57:32the city. Uh so that's what we're here

3:57:34for. We're here to try to utilize that,

3:57:36but therefore, we're going to need this

3:57:37independent study. Uh we can go to the

3:57:39next slide.

3:57:41Um so basically, we have an economic

3:57:43ecosystem here right here in Dover. Um,

3:57:45we're somewhat ignoring it. Again, we

3:57:47spoke about NASCAR. Do's not used I

3:57:49mean, do is used to a high volume of

3:57:52traffic occurring here. Unfortunately,

3:57:53it happens twice a year. I believe in

3:57:55the spring and in the fall when I was a

3:57:57child here in Dover at Doss NASCAR. What

3:58:00we're trying to do is we're trying to

3:58:01generate that on a monthly basis. We're

3:58:03trying to have it one or two times a

3:58:04month at least, right? Which will leave

3:58:06us at about 20 to 24 tournaments. Uh,

3:58:09similar to a spooky new Pennsylvania in

3:58:11Manheim, Pennsylvania. So, what I'm

3:58:12going to speak to is this is the case

3:58:14study in our proposal, but if you didn't

3:58:16read it, um, Spooky Nuke generated an

3:58:19FY, excuse me, 2017, there was an

3:58:21independent study on Spooky Nuke and

3:58:23their economic input.

3:58:26They generated over $100 million for

3:58:29Lancaster County.

3:58:31This one facility of economic activity

3:58:33for the county, uh, Lancaster County in

3:58:35Pennsylvania. Very similar county to s

3:58:37uh, Kink County. It is in Manheim,

3:58:39Pennsylvania. If you want to look it up

3:58:40as well as we provided our link to the

3:58:42proposal, you can also explore it in

3:58:44there and the references are also

3:58:45provided. But what we're trying to do is

3:58:47develop a community and economic

3:58:49ecosystem where we're providing a social

3:58:51good the workforce development the youth

3:58:53engagement uh and more so of a community

3:58:55center during the week and during the

3:58:57weekends between Friday and Sunday also

3:59:00um create uh generate that revenue where

3:59:03we have outside visitors from you know

3:59:06the regional area possibly national area

3:59:09come to the city of do develop that foot

3:59:11traffic and also um

3:59:14you know contribute to the local econom

3:59:16here. We're hopeful to possibly

3:59:19right now we have valleys working in a

3:59:21silo. We have do mall right next to it.

3:59:23It somewhat looks like a graveyard out

3:59:25there. Right. What we're trying to do is

3:59:26we're trying to more so not consolidate

3:59:29but collaborate these two entities as

3:59:32well as Dell State across the street

3:59:33which we will speak to in future slides.

3:59:36We're trying to develop this ecosystem

3:59:37where as we can see working in silo has

3:59:40not ne necessarily been the most

3:59:41successful for the city of do and

3:59:43therefore if we're able to collaborate

3:59:45and work together maybe we could

3:59:47possibly uh develop a communal aspect as

3:59:50far as gaining some economic traction

3:59:52here in the city of do. So this is just

3:59:54somewhat our imagination at best. But

3:59:56that's what the independent study is for

3:59:57to explore if this is possibly even

3:59:59doable for the city of do. We're going

4:00:01to need a third party to actually that's

4:00:04an expert in this to actually explore.

4:00:06Next slide, please.

4:00:09So, we met with the president of

4:00:11Delaware State.

4:00:13I'm sure you're familiar with Delaware

4:00:15State yourself, but we met with uh

4:00:17President Tony Allen, and you know, when

4:00:19we spoke with him, uh sorry, I don't

4:00:21have my glasses on, but we spoke to

4:00:24different measures. We spoke to Delaware

4:00:26State went to indoor turf field. We

4:00:28said, "Well, you don't necessarily have

4:00:30to get it yourself where we can work

4:00:32together possibly and ultimately achieve

4:00:34this." We also spoke to internships, a

4:00:37career uh excuse me, a graduate to

4:00:40employment pipeline. So, we're therefore

4:00:41retaining some talent here in the city

4:00:43of Dover with recent graduates of uh Do

4:00:46Delaware. Even if they just stay here

4:00:48two years, that's two years we retain

4:00:49college graduates and college talent.

4:00:51whether it be in the techn the IT field,

4:00:53whether it be in the medical field,

4:00:55whether it be in you know criminal

4:00:56justice, whatever it may be, ultimately

4:00:59we can retain that talent. And also

4:01:01while speaking to him, he he we were

4:01:05exploring ideas of land that they have

4:01:07by the Sam's Club, I believe, in that

4:01:09area. And we spoke to possibly utilizing

4:01:11theirs. But the caveat to that was we

4:01:14would need to add a convention center

4:01:16for graduations, ceremonies, whatever it

4:01:19may be that Dell State wants to hold.

4:01:20also the concerts I believe in

4:01:21homecoming time. So uh that was one of

4:01:23the caveats you know we said we would

4:01:25like to further explore but that's again

4:01:27I want to reiterate that is what the

4:01:29independent study will explore if that

4:01:31is actually doable if it's feasible and

4:01:34you know we'll see from there. So next

4:01:36slide please.

4:01:38So we selected victus advisors we met

4:01:40with two other um partners. Let me get

4:01:42the names of those. Uh we met with

4:01:44sports facilities companies and pinnacle

4:01:46indoor sports. What we did like about um

4:01:49Victus Advan uh Advisor, excuse me, was

4:01:52that they specialize in market demand,

4:01:53financial feasibility, economic impact,

4:01:55and facility operations. They also

4:01:57already conducted a study in the state

4:01:59of Delaware recently uh in Wington for

4:02:02or North Delaware I believe for a track

4:02:05and field up there. Um also they have a

4:02:08flat fee, $50,000. What do you know?

4:02:10Coincidentally, right? So flat fee, we

4:02:12don't have to worry about being uh

4:02:14ambushed with uh ancillary fees, hidden

4:02:17fees or whatever it may be. And with

4:02:19that flat fee structure, you know, we

4:02:22cut the check, they conduct the study or

4:02:25they conduct the study, we cut the

4:02:26check. I don't know ne necessarily the

4:02:28order of it. And from there, we wait 12

4:02:30weeks and we wait for this independent

4:02:31study. And the best thing about this

4:02:32independent study is it's public. So

4:02:34anybody could take advantage of it.

4:02:36Anybody could take advantage. It's not

4:02:37just left for us. We have an idea. We

4:02:40feel like we have some potential

4:02:41investors that we spoken to tentatively,

4:02:43but unfortunately we can't necessarily

4:02:46go to these investors without somewhat

4:02:48of a

4:02:50a plan. Next slide, please.

4:02:55Okay, so um so the requested 50,000 is

4:02:59not a construction funding plan. It's

4:03:01literally just developing some evidence

4:03:03to support whether we should proceed

4:03:05with this. Um we have to do something.

4:03:07We can't sit on our hands. uh and we

4:03:10have to find some means of gener gen

4:03:11generating revenue. I believe you spoke

4:03:13to generating revenue for the city of

4:03:16Dover and you said we have to do

4:03:17something literally verbatim is what she

4:03:19said and excuse me

4:03:21>> no this is something

4:03:22>> oh this is something right we have to

4:03:24find some means of exploring and we're

4:03:26going to have to spend money in order to

4:03:27make money um we can't I understand that

4:03:30there's several other projects that have

4:03:31now arrived since we made our

4:03:33announcement uh gyms in the Kent County

4:03:35area those are providing social good but

4:03:38one basketball court is not going to

4:03:39generate revenue eight basketball courts

4:03:42will has 16 teams playing at once,

4:03:44whether it be wrestling, volleyball,

4:03:45fusa, indoor match cheerleading,

4:03:48whatever it may be. But I encourage you

4:03:50to look at our proposal. It is 91 pages,

4:03:52but a lot of it is the appendix. So,

4:03:54next slide, please.

4:03:57Okay. So, we spoke about potential

4:03:59investors. Uh, we have Jordan Smith Jr.,

4:04:02senior on. He's online. He could not

4:04:04make it today. He had a meeting with

4:04:06Clutch Sports in New Balance. But his

4:04:08son, Jordan Smith, Jr., His father is

4:04:10from Dover, Delaware. Graduated 2002,

4:04:13first team, second team all state,

4:04:15excuse me. And his son happens to be the

4:04:17second best player in the nation last

4:04:19year in high school. He is at the

4:04:21University of Arkansas. As you can see,

4:04:22he's a gold medal recipient. Uh in

4:04:25addition, he's projected to be the

4:04:27number two pick of the NBA draft for

4:04:292027. Uh he is now signed to New

4:04:32Balance, which is why we have New

4:04:33Balance on free. It's free items. In

4:04:36addition,

4:04:38in addition, he signed the Clutch

4:04:40Sports. We've met with New Balance about

4:04:42this potential opportunity. They spoke

4:04:44to us about the independent uh market

4:04:46feasibility study. We said we'll try to

4:04:48get it, you know, um and they want to

4:04:50see some level of support and not

4:04:51resistance from the city of Dover,

4:04:53especially when it comes to land

4:04:54acquisitions, you know, whatever it may

4:04:56be. So, therefore, um we're going to

4:04:59utilize this to our leverage. I mean,

4:05:00you know, we're going to try to maximize

4:05:02on the potential of what this could

4:05:03possibly be. Um we have already

4:05:06conducted some community outreach with

4:05:08uh Jordan Smith also trying to develop

4:05:10him as a young man and get him to

4:05:12understand that you know um community

4:05:14engagement, youth engagement is actually

4:05:17empowering the next generation and

4:05:18doesn't stop at him. So um yeah, he won

4:05:21national player of the year, Gatorade

4:05:22player of the year, you name it, he won

4:05:23it. Uh I encourage you to go on YouTube

4:05:26and look up Jordan Smith Jr. Next slide,

4:05:28please.

4:05:31Um, so this is actually a sneaker drive

4:05:33that we had with New Balance. So we met

4:05:34with New Balance and we actually um we

4:05:37collaborated and we conducted a backpack

4:05:40backpack giveaway as well as clothing

4:05:42and sneaker drive. We handed out free

4:05:43New Balances, free t-shirts, New Balance

4:05:46T-shirts, free New Balance sweatpants,

4:05:48book bags as well. And with that, um,

4:05:51yeah, we're just showing them

4:05:52development. So that is a picture of us.

4:05:54He's in the center. His father is

4:05:55actually to the left in a red and black

4:05:57jersey. They're both about 6'2 and um

4:06:00let's pray for a good season. So, next

4:06:02slide, please.

4:06:04So, uh council member Roachcha asked us

4:06:07about the phases. What does this look

4:06:08like in the development? Right now,

4:06:09we're at step one. We just want to

4:06:10conduct the feasibility studies, right?

4:06:12Um with that feasibility study is just

4:06:15going to more so

4:06:18um it's going to inform us of the if we

4:06:21can even proceed with the next stages,

4:06:22which is stakeholder engagement,

4:06:24investor engagement. We plan on it going

4:06:26to the 76ers. Why? They're going to make

4:06:28the most money they're ever going to

4:06:29make these next two years signing LeBron

4:06:31James. Correct. Right. We plan on going

4:06:32to New Balance. We plan on going to uh

4:06:35Clutch Sports, which is Rich Paul and

4:06:36LeBron James working in unison. So, we

4:06:38plan on utilizing these potential

4:06:39investors and we still have the state.

4:06:42Again, 4.1 million went to Delaware

4:06:44Turfs right here in Kent County, Dover.

4:06:46The city of Dover didn't receive a dime

4:06:48of that. I think that's a travesty for

4:06:49the city of Dover. And I think we need

4:06:51to take the opportunity to take

4:06:53advantage

4:06:55>> of this

4:06:56>> of of these funding mechanisms that are

4:06:59available to us that

4:07:01>> um I would say that we're not

4:07:04necessarily taking advantage of. Uh from

4:07:06there we would get into construction

4:07:07probably a two to threeyear project.

4:07:09We're hoping ideally at the Dover Mall

4:07:11just because we're trying to revitalize

4:07:13that community. Uh make it look like

4:07:15somewhat of a union market in

4:07:16Washington, northeast Washington DC

4:07:18where you bring this foot traffic there

4:07:20that will bring retail, that would bring

4:07:22entertainment, that would bring

4:07:23restaurants, and then therefore

4:07:25hopefully some residential units there

4:07:26as well, right? It's it's a it's plenty

4:07:28of space over there. Um and then from

4:07:31there, we would get into the operations

4:07:32and planning. We will have to be assign

4:07:34we will have to hire employees but we

4:07:36will also have to begin negotiating with

4:07:37working with tournaments such as EYBL

4:07:40and etc. Uh program development

4:07:42implementation we have plenty of

4:07:44community me community members with

4:07:45talents skill sets that that they can

4:07:48actually transfer to the next

4:07:49generation. Uh we're hoping for

4:07:51workforce development whether that be

4:07:53barber school which one of our um

4:07:56one of the constituents will actually be

4:07:57speaking to whether it be yoga whether

4:08:00it be information technology. Again, we

4:08:03have a lot of talent right across the

4:08:04street from the do mall that can act

4:08:06actually be utilized and we can get

4:08:09these social work interns which they

4:08:10have to complete internship hours. I

4:08:12have an MSW I had to complete internship

4:08:14hours myself that could be done at the

4:08:16center as well and again community

4:08:18center during the week, revenue maker

4:08:19during the weekends. Uh and then

4:08:21ultimately opening day is what we call

4:08:23it. So next slide please.

4:08:26Um, so

4:08:29and somewhat in conclusion, we do agree

4:08:31on the standard fiscal responsibility.

4:08:33We understand there's some fiscal hawks

4:08:35here and therefore um we we agree with

4:08:39you. That's why we're not asking for you

4:08:41to build dig a hole. We're not asking

4:08:43for you to pay for a building. We're not

4:08:46asking for anything but the exploration

4:08:50of generating revenue for the city.

4:08:53Again, we cannot just continue to hold

4:08:55the money in our pocket and think that

4:08:58and pray that we get out this cycle of

4:09:00being in a deficit which is which has

4:09:02which has been occurring on an annual

4:09:03basis. We need to explore some means of

4:09:06receiving a ROI and also maintaining

4:09:09accountability. Accountability that

4:09:10we're not asking for the 50k, we're

4:09:12asking for it to go to a third party. We

4:09:14don't want a dollar of it. We don't want

4:09:15a penny of it. We don't want to touch

4:09:17it. We simply so therefore there's no

4:09:19accountability issues. There's no lack

4:09:21thereof. Um, and you know, we won't

4:09:25necessarily need to receive any

4:09:26oversight. We plan on going to potential

4:09:28investors ourselves as well as others

4:09:30can do this as well. If you have the

4:09:31capital, I encourage you once post study

4:09:34to explore means of contributing to this

4:09:36project. Um, and also in the wise words

4:09:39of council member Brian Lewis who wrote

4:09:42a oped when the railhouse actually

4:09:44received $50,000 from the economic and

4:09:47from the from the community development

4:09:49fund or excuse me the economic and

4:09:51community development fund uh a

4:09:53for-profit beer garden. Uh I believe

4:09:56it's our duty to safeguard public

4:09:57resources and invest in initiatives that

4:10:00deliver clear long-term benefits and

4:10:02savings to all residents. I think we

4:10:04meet the criteria for that. We also we

4:10:06agree wholeheartedly with that, but the

4:10:08first responsible investment will be the

4:10:10study. So, we ask that you please

4:10:12approve the $50,000 from the economic

4:10:15community development fund. Thank you.

4:10:18>> Next slide, please.

4:10:20That's it. It's a video, but obviously

4:10:23it's not going to play, but it's just

4:10:25our vision. It's not big deal.

4:10:28>> Go to our Facebook.

4:10:30>> Yes.

4:10:30>> Um, yeah. So, this is just the appendix.

4:10:32This is just the regional market that we

4:10:33plan on tapping into. All right. Um,

4:10:36thank you.

4:10:36>> All right.

4:10:37>> Um, let's, uh, go to questions. So,

4:10:40getting late tonight, so um, Dr. Sudler

4:10:44and, uh, Councilman Boardy. Okay, Dr.

4:10:48Suddler.

4:10:49>> And thank you, Chairman Anderson, for

4:10:51recognizing me. Uh, very well

4:10:53orchestrated. I I think um, you

4:10:57definitely did or exhibit a robust

4:11:00background in the gap in services that's

4:11:02needed for the youth.

4:11:04Um, I love the fact that you have

4:11:07acknowledged that we do have a deficit

4:11:09and you worked around that in your uh

4:11:12persuasive approach.

4:11:14Um, I also like the fact that you are

4:11:17trying to generate capital for the

4:11:19capital of Delaware.

4:11:21>> Um, in addition to that, uh, your youth

4:11:25engagement,

4:11:26uh, it sounds like it goes beyond

4:11:28basketball.

4:11:30are also dealing with social and

4:11:32emotional challenges and providing uh

4:11:35the youth with psychological defense

4:11:37mechanisms uh to cope with those

4:11:39challenges.

4:11:41Um

4:11:43I just ask one question.

4:11:45>> Yes.

4:11:46>> Where's my new balances?

4:11:49>> No, I'm just joking.

4:11:50>> We do plan on doing a giveaway here

4:11:52though.

4:11:52>> No, we couldn't take it. But on on the

4:11:54real um very very well very well put

4:11:58together. Um, I want to give you a round

4:11:59of applause everyone tonight.

4:12:01>> Appreciate you. Thank you.

4:12:04>> I would offer to you um to please uh

4:12:08come to uh the mayor's blue ribbon

4:12:11opioid use disorder task force meeting

4:12:13on October 7th

4:12:15>> here in city hall chambers on the 6th.

4:12:18Since you are dealing with um

4:12:22psychological challenges, social and

4:12:24emotional challenges dealing with youth,

4:12:26I believe that um your framework that

4:12:31you have here can fit into our UD um

4:12:35youth real cost campaign.

4:12:38And I believe that um you should come

4:12:42and do a presentation or a quick

4:12:44synopsis to our committee

4:12:47>> and see how we can help you uh with the

4:12:52$50,000

4:12:54um amount. I can't say I can't speak for

4:12:56the entire body but as the chairperson I

4:12:59can say that does this does fit within

4:13:02the scope of the exhibit E um guidelines

4:13:06for you know the UD uh usage remediation

4:13:09and abatement usage. So I don't just try

4:13:12and provide you another avenue to to

4:13:14gain um income in regards to this matter

4:13:17for your assessment because it is

4:13:19dealing with youth. We are dealing with

4:13:20youth right now in our campaign and I

4:13:23believe that um let's see where you may

4:13:26you your framework may fit in and at the

4:13:30very least if it doesn't fit in well I'm

4:13:33sure it fits in our framework but if if

4:13:35it's too late or for some reason we can

4:13:38assist you or partner with you we can

4:13:40also um forward your information to the

4:13:43state opioid use disorder u committee

4:13:47>> and they have a lot more money than we

4:13:49Okay. And a lot more resources and um

4:13:52I'm sure with our recommendation or at

4:13:55least with I won't say recommendation

4:13:56but more so with our eye uh and on you

4:14:01know your framework um that they'll also

4:14:03put an extra eye on their framework as

4:14:05well because you know they are also

4:14:07looking for organizations such as your

4:14:08own that's put together recognizes the

4:14:11gap in services uh that relates or

4:14:16correlates with the opioid use uh

4:14:18disorder.

4:14:19um challenges and aims.

4:14:21>> So, I want to offer that to you and say

4:14:24thank you. Um both of you did an

4:14:26excellent job.

4:14:28>> They all did an excellent job and and we

4:14:31also thank you for like I said um

4:14:33bringing up the fact that you

4:14:34acknowledge that we do have some

4:14:36monetary challenges.

4:14:38>> Um but you know um if we can help you in

4:14:41any way we can, I'm sure we will.

4:14:44>> I appreciate it.

4:14:44>> I yield. Thank you for recognizing

4:14:46chairman.

4:14:46>> Thank you.

4:14:47>> Thank you. Uh, Councilman Boger, do you

4:14:49recognize?

4:14:49>> Thank you. Thank you. Uh, you know,

4:14:51President with with with the council uh

4:14:55president's permission, I see two young

4:14:57gentlemen with papers that look like

4:15:00they have something to say, and they've

4:15:01been stellar, and it's been a long

4:15:03night. Um, and um, I if I know we'll go

4:15:07back to public forum, but these young

4:15:08men have been here and stellar,

4:15:10>> and I I want to yield some of my time to

4:15:12them. First, I have a couple questions.

4:15:14What school you go to? I go to campus

4:15:16community school.

4:15:17>> You go to campus community. Great.

4:15:19>> All right. So, when you get done, what's

4:15:21your teacher? Because we want to email

4:15:23them how about your social study and

4:15:25your civic lesson today. So, when you

4:15:28get done, can I get your teacher's name?

4:15:30And they're going to get an email from

4:15:31Councilman Boardy to say that you are

4:15:33doing civic uh work today. Hopefully,

4:15:35you get some extra credit. All right.

4:15:36Now, go ahead.

4:15:38>> And and what's your name, please?

4:15:40>> Joshua Bridget.

4:15:41>> Thank you. You may continue.

4:15:44My name is Joshua Pritchette. I am 10

4:15:46years old and I'm here and I and I live

4:15:50in Dover.

4:15:52I am here today because I support the um

4:15:55Get [clears throat] Work project. As a

4:15:57kid who loves sports, I know how

4:16:00important it is for us to have a place

4:16:04that is positive to go somewhere. We can

4:16:07practice, learn, and get better. Be

4:16:10around people who push us to do the

4:16:12right things.

4:16:13as a place like the get work youth

4:16:16sports and performance center. I'll just

4:16:19be around for sports. It will give kids

4:16:23like me a place to belong. We can help

4:16:28with school, have mentors, learn new

4:16:31things, and stay active. I wouldn't have

4:16:35to spend weekends traveling as West

4:16:39Virginia to go to tournaments and events

4:16:42that can be hosted right here in Dover.

4:16:47We need more places in Dover that are

4:16:49made for us that believe in us and give

4:16:54us something positive to work towards.

4:16:57Sometimes adults make decisions about

4:17:00what kids need, but I wanted to come

4:17:02here so you could hear from an actual

4:17:06kid. Thank you for listening.

4:17:08>> Oh, no. I got some questions. You can't

4:17:09get away with that. So, you go to West

4:17:12Virginia. What what what sport do you

4:17:14play?

4:17:15>> Okay. You play football, so you have to

4:17:17travel most weekends to go play. I

4:17:19travel to places like Bristol,

4:17:22Pennsylvania, Kaka Shaken, Pennsylvania,

4:17:24New Jersey, and other places.

4:17:27>> What position you play?

4:17:29>> Running back and wide receiver.

4:17:30>> Okay. And what team is it?

4:17:33>> Uh, problem seven and Sony Eagles.

4:17:37>> Okay. All right. Good stuff. All right.

4:17:40Thank you. And I mean that when you get

4:17:42done, can I get name and we can make

4:17:45sure um

4:17:47All right. Thank you. And um so next

4:17:49what's the next one? Thank you council

4:17:51president for your kindness.

4:17:54>> Hello Mayor Christ and city council

4:17:56members. My name is Jamar Prity Jr. I'm

4:17:59here tonight to speak on in support of

4:18:02the get work project. We need places

4:18:05where we can grow stay active learn and

4:18:08learn discipline and be around people

4:18:11who expect something good from us. The

4:18:13Get Work Project can give kids like me

4:18:16more opportunities to learn about hard

4:18:19work, teamwork, responsibility, sports

4:18:21development, and being a great leader

4:18:23for PE from people right here in Dover.

4:18:27I think investing in a place for young

4:18:29people is also investing in the future

4:18:32of our city because one day me and my

4:18:36brother will be some of some of the

4:18:40adults sitting in here in these seats as

4:18:43the both of us

4:18:47as the both

4:18:52as the audience and even as the council

4:18:56members leading this community. I hope

4:18:58you will support the Get Work Project

4:19:00and give more kids like me a place in

4:19:02Dover where we can work hard, grow, and

4:19:05become even better. Thank you for your

4:19:07time.

4:19:07>> Wait, now how old are you?

4:19:09>> I'm 11. I'm 11.

4:19:11>> 42.

4:19:12>> What you play?

4:19:14>> I play uh tackle football and

4:19:16basketball.

4:19:16>> What position you play?

4:19:18>> Corer.

4:19:18>> Who's the best?

4:19:19>> Me.

4:19:21[laughter]

4:19:22>> Thank you.

4:19:24>> Thank you. Thank you, J. Thank you.

4:19:32Now,

4:19:34they might have saved your presentation.

4:19:36All them slides the kids might have got.

4:19:38>> They look better than us.

4:19:39>> That was You should have started and

4:19:41ended with them. But I have a couple

4:19:43questions. Seriously, um when I first

4:19:46got to council, one of my desires was to

4:19:48was a rec center. And then I I've

4:19:51quickly learned by one of my um former

4:19:53council members, Ralph Taylor and

4:19:55Councilman Anderson and others who were

4:19:57on that there was a survey done and they

4:19:59wanted a water park, etc. Um so um

4:20:02again, you know, this is right down, but

4:20:06now I have some questions. If not do,

4:20:09have you considered the county? For

4:20:11example, I know an individual who has

4:20:13the dream field, I believe, and they

4:20:16were trying to develop that. Have you

4:20:18inquired about

4:20:20some addition to that area? You don't

4:20:21have to give away your your um you know

4:20:25your plan completely. I wouldn't, but

4:20:29um Yo, that's one question.

4:20:30>> Yeah. So, we considered other areas. Um

4:20:33what I will say is that, you know, Kent

4:20:36County has other facilities. Uh there's

4:20:39a smaller facility in Kent County down

4:20:41in Camden or the Wyomi area. Yeah.

4:20:43>> Uh there's a basketball gym actually. I

4:20:46believe Kim Peters just announced that

4:20:47they will be hosting um you know

4:20:49basically providing some level of social

4:20:51good at that facility as well as you

4:20:54have Kent County I mean Delaware turfs

4:20:56down there as well. Um, and more so in

4:20:58the Camden area, you have John Pitz

4:21:00Recreation Center, I believe, as well.

4:21:02Um, which is limited on hours, but you

4:21:04know, um, so, you know, one of the

4:21:07issues we see with the city of Dover is

4:21:09even with its youth facilities or sports

4:21:11facilities, it's really meant for senior

4:21:13citizens when you really think about it

4:21:14because they're in school during the

4:21:16school uh, during most of the uh, active

4:21:18hours of that facility. when they get

4:21:20out of that out of school between 3:30

4:21:23and if they play a sport or something,

4:21:25it's five o'clock, right? Those

4:21:27facilities close about 8 PM. So, you

4:21:30know,

4:21:32that leaves them 3 hours possibly a day,

4:21:35possibly four hours a day, five days out

4:21:37of the week, when in reality it's open

4:21:39from 8 until, let's just say 8:00 p.m.

4:21:42Hypothetically, that leaves 12 hours for

4:21:45seniors. So, in reality, this intention

4:21:47is for senior citizens. Um whether we

4:21:49want to acknowledge that or not, we're

4:21:51we're hopeful to provide an asset to the

4:21:53city of Dover as we are two Dober High

4:21:55graduates. Um we are from Dover,

4:21:57Delaware. Um and particularly we're

4:22:00rooting for Dover, Delaware. And you

4:22:03know, my background, I worked at DC

4:22:04Council for several years. I worked as a

4:22:07uh policy adviser for council members.

4:22:09Uh also Chairman Mendelson, who I truly

4:22:11admire uh and his work that he did he

4:22:14has conducted in Washington DC. I know

4:22:18about budgets on an annual basis. Um the

4:22:21annual report that one of the

4:22:22organizations failed to uh provide as

4:22:25well like I know the importance of this

4:22:27and what I saw was a deficit on an

4:22:28annual basis. My first step because this

4:22:31started as a conversation of just gym

4:22:34accessibility but I thought a bit when I

4:22:36actually conducted my research. I then

4:22:38learned about youth crime arrest

4:22:40actually increasing. I learned about the

4:22:42deficit. I learned about accessibility

4:22:44and the limited accessibility to

4:22:46accessing sports facilities. I know I'm

4:22:49aware fully aware of the do mall as well

4:22:51as uh B's I you know hearsay because I

4:22:55live in Washington DC was always for the

4:22:57last several years was always on the

4:23:00threshold of closing you know and what I

4:23:03didn't realize is when I was a child do

4:23:05mall was very active do downs was very

4:23:08active or you know and um I just felt

4:23:12like that revitalization can actually

4:23:14that revitalization can actually occur

4:23:16for the community as I watch Middletown

4:23:18significantly improve. Middletown was a

4:23:20dirt road when I was a child. Uh Milford

4:23:23was almost the equivalent, right? And

4:23:25I'm watching these cities uh on the

4:23:27uptick and I'm somewhat seeing a decline

4:23:30in the city of Dover. Looking at the

4:23:31Dover Mall, it looks like the Blue Hen

4:23:33Mall now. You know, historically the

4:23:35Blue Hen Mall was a closed I mean was

4:23:36the was the graveyard of malls.

4:23:40But so what

4:23:42this particular project is special to do

4:23:44and also trying to become a a partner

4:23:46and an asset to the city of Dover. Um we

4:23:49don't necessarily want to go anywhere

4:23:51else because we feel that this is an

4:23:53asset at least worth exploring and allow

4:23:56it don't allow us to make promises to

4:23:58you. Allow the third party, the expert

4:24:00opinion, I mean the expert analysis to

4:24:02conduct the analysis and we received the

4:24:04report back. We're not asking you to

4:24:06build the building in. We'll handle

4:24:07that. We're not asking um for you to put

4:24:10a shovel in the ground. We're not asking

4:24:12you for the manual labor. You know, we

4:24:14we plan on going to private investors

4:24:15and also the state, but we do want to

4:24:17show some level of buy in from the city

4:24:19of Dover before actually approaching the

4:24:21state. Do Partnership received $150,000

4:24:24for several years, at least since 2019,

4:24:27before they actually received state

4:24:29funding, which they received about $25

4:24:31million, which means they had to prove

4:24:33show and prove to the state that there

4:24:36was some level of investment from the

4:24:37city of Dover. $150,000 on an annual

4:24:40basis. You know, we're not asking for

4:24:42that. We're not asking for we're asking

4:24:44for a one-time $40,000 fee. is not um a

4:24:48social good project where we're going to

4:24:49need an annual reoccurring line item uh

4:24:52in the budget. We need an independent

4:24:55study to see how we could generate some

4:24:57money for the city of do. Thank you. And

4:24:59then and last um from me um thank you so

4:25:02much and I know for example we've um um

4:25:06we we the feasibility study is that I I

4:25:10will tell you we need we need it bad.

4:25:12Um, I won't go into some things that I'm

4:25:14doing because I don't want a conflict of

4:25:16interest, but I I'm trust me, you know,

4:25:19it's this is right down my my my lane.

4:25:22Um, and then I know, you know, we have

4:25:24the Boys and Girls Club that's being

4:25:26built across from Dover High, which, you

4:25:28know, they're going to do things like AI

4:25:30and studios and and parks and and all of

4:25:33those things. So, so um so and and the

4:25:37last thing I would add, I said the last

4:25:39I'm a preacher, so I got three closings.

4:25:41Um, the last thing I would I would add

4:25:44is that um, one of the things that that

4:25:48challenges here in Dover is location. I

4:25:50work with a certain population on a

4:25:52regular basis and where it sits is going

4:25:55to be important for safety. Yes.

4:25:57>> Um, so I ask once you do that, can you

4:26:00consider the neutrality of of location

4:26:03because that is um, when I work with

4:26:06certain individuals, you know, that that

4:26:08is a concern. um yes it can be here but

4:26:12the certain population so once that once

4:26:14that's um you know I wish you much

4:26:17success but I just want that and as far

4:26:19as a thought I yield council president

4:26:21and thank you all for a great

4:26:22presentation too

4:26:23>> thank you uh Councilman Lewis you're

4:26:26recognized

4:26:27>> uh thank you good evening uh if I get

4:26:29cut off it's because my battery is going

4:26:31low on my phone but uh bear with me uh I

4:26:34concur with my colleague Councilman

4:26:37Suggler excellent presentation

4:26:39well prepared and drawn out. Um, now I'm

4:26:43one of those financial hawks that you

4:26:45refer to this evening

4:26:47>> as you're well aware.

4:26:49>> Uh, and once again, you know, this

4:26:51matter comes to funding and the city

4:26:55being able to assist. Uh, as you heard

4:26:58earlier this evening, uh, during Mr.

4:27:01Bobby Wilson's presentation, again, it

4:27:04comes to funding. Uh, I would implore

4:27:06you to put in an application if you

4:27:09already haven't done so for the economic

4:27:12development fund if you fit the criteria

4:27:15and I would defer to Miss Art if you

4:27:18have any questions pertaining to the

4:27:20criteria and such. But, um, I would

4:27:22implore you to do that even though I'm

4:27:24not a big fan of the economic

4:27:26development fund. Um, now the two

4:27:29questions that I have for you this

4:27:30evening, they're a little off base, but

4:27:33one of them is, um, will your community

4:27:36center have free programs for families

4:27:40that are having financial issues?

4:27:42Because we have a lot of neighborhoods

4:27:44in the city of Dover where, you know,

4:27:47the families of these youth are

4:27:49suffering hardships.

4:27:55>> Yes. So, we're hopeful that it's free

4:27:58for 17 and below and then as well as 18

4:28:02and above. Therefore, it will probably

4:28:04become an income measure. But again, in

4:28:07order for us to decide what is actually

4:28:09going to be appropriate and what is

4:28:10feasible, we will need that independent

4:28:12study to determine that. Um but again

4:28:16this is more this programming is also

4:28:19more so geared towards youth engagement

4:28:21young adults and also underserve just

4:28:23underserved vulnerable populations

4:28:24across the city of do.

4:28:27>> Okay.

4:28:28>> Uh my next question is that you had

4:28:31spoke with representatives from DSU.

4:28:34Would they be willing to assist you by

4:28:37offering any funding for your study?

4:28:43Delaware State University has exhausted

4:28:44a lot of their funding on the soontobe

4:28:47stadium uh indoor stadium which is why

4:28:50they were not able to acquire the or you

4:28:53know uh build a indoor turf field uh

4:28:56within this next year. Um so therefore

4:28:59they're somewhat limited in their

4:29:00ability which is why we speak of

4:29:02collaboration where we necessarily build

4:29:04upon each other. um he offered land, we

4:29:08offer a convention center and an indoor

4:29:10turf field for his team to maximize upon

4:29:13the talent that they have. So that's

4:29:15where the collaboration uh aspect comes

4:29:17into versus working in silos and

4:29:19somewhat the pointing of the finger. We

4:29:21can come together as a collective and we

4:29:24can make this a prosperous do as well.

4:29:28>> Okay. Uh thank you for answering my

4:29:30questions and again I would implore you

4:29:32to walk down any avenue you can. Uh I

4:29:36know Mr. Sudler had made some

4:29:38recommendations

4:29:40um pertaining to trying to ascertain

4:29:42funding. Uh again I would implore you to

4:29:46look into filing the application with

4:29:48the economic development fund if you

4:29:50haven't already done so because I know

4:29:51there's a criteria that you have to fit.

4:29:54Um, and I I wish you all the best and

4:29:57and thank you for quote and thank you

4:29:59for quoting me, by the way.

4:30:01>> You're welcome. Thank you.

4:30:05>> Thank you. Any other members of the

4:30:08committee?

4:30:11Mr. Mayor,

4:30:17>> can I cut the ribbon on it? [laughter]

4:30:19You are more than welcome to cut the

4:30:21ribbon.

4:30:23I won't be here

4:30:27back just for the

4:30:30>> also want to know I know we spoke about

4:30:31the Garrison technology park um and how

4:30:35funding went towards that 1.4 million

4:30:37went to that uh 1.6 million actually

4:30:39I've read the meeting minutes for when

4:30:41they closed the application or you know

4:30:44um 1.6 6 million was not transferred

4:30:47over to the general fund because it was

4:30:49still intended to serve the purpose of

4:30:51economic and community development. We

4:30:53checked three to four blocks of the

4:30:55criteria for the economic and community

4:30:57development. We looked at the resolution

4:30:58that was uh conducted within the last

4:31:00two years. I want to say um I have it

4:31:03highlighted in our report. So if you're

4:31:05more than welcome to check our proposal,

4:31:06you'll see it's highlighted in lime

4:31:09green the criteria that we meet for this

4:31:11uh proposal. Um, and actually it was

4:31:14stated in the minutes, excuse me, that

4:31:17council specifically rejected using that

4:31:19balance to plug the FY26 budget gap

4:31:22because members described the fund as

4:31:24important for future economic

4:31:26development.

4:31:28I think this is more than enough for

4:31:29that.

4:31:33All right. Thank you. Now, I'm going to

4:31:37uh

4:31:39don't see anyone. Go online. Miss Shell

4:31:42Paul and then we'll come back into the

4:31:45room.

4:31:46>> Okay. Thank you.

4:31:49>> Oh, thank you and we appreciate the

4:31:51opportunity.

4:31:52>> Hold on.

4:31:52>> She's just might have a question for

4:31:54you. It may just be a comment. I don't

4:31:56know. Yeah.

4:31:59>> And then you can I just

4:32:01>> Okay.

4:32:03>> Miss Paul, are you there?

4:32:05If not, we'll let you go ahead and have

4:32:10I I

4:32:12Okay, we'll come back to her and go into

4:32:14the room. Um, but before I do,

4:32:17>> are you able to hear me?

4:32:19>> Well, okay. Yes.

4:32:21>> Okay. Good evening, gentlemen. I want to

4:32:24say to my young sir, Pritchette, uh, the

4:32:27Pritchette brothers, wonderful job. I

4:32:30commend you and I look forward to

4:32:32hearing from you in the future. Um

4:32:34gentlemen, I have a question for you

4:32:36with regards to because I know that

4:32:38you're targeting the youth um and of

4:32:41course I work with at risk youth and my

4:32:43question to you is what how many jobs

4:32:46will

4:32:48the actual um

4:32:51stadium actually be? How many jobs will

4:32:54you actually be able to uh how many

4:32:56people will you be able to employ? And

4:32:58how many of those um actual employment

4:33:03um openings will go to um some of our

4:33:07youth, you know, in the ages of the

4:33:09between the age of 16 to 21. How how

4:33:13many positions will you um have

4:33:16available for that age group?

4:33:19Well, we can't necessarily guarantee a

4:33:21number of positions as more so the the

4:33:24study will explore what how grandiose

4:33:28this project can be. But what I can say

4:33:30is between the ages of 20 16 to 21 is

4:33:32where we're hoping to train youth and

4:33:35young adults to prepare them for the

4:33:37future. So therefore, whether that be,

4:33:39you know, plumbing, barber school,

4:33:41whether that is uh information

4:33:43technology, which I feel is an

4:33:45understated u field, especially for

4:33:47those with criminal records, returning

4:33:49citizens is what we call them in

4:33:50Washington DC. But um I can't

4:33:53necessarily give a guaranteed number. We

4:33:55will need security obviously. We will

4:33:56need personnel. We will need custodial

4:33:58personnel as well. So we do see as

4:34:02opportunity for those to acquire

4:34:04employment but also opportunity to

4:34:05develop a skill set that can you know

4:34:08retain um a level of in a sufficient

4:34:11level of income for the foreseeable

4:34:13future.

4:34:15>> Okay. And then my final question because

4:34:16I know um

4:34:19Councilman Dr. Sler was um speaking on

4:34:22some of the funding that's available

4:34:24under the OUD um funding. Are you able

4:34:28or willing to incorporate um the

4:34:31transition because you are dealing with

4:34:33youth and believe it or not we do have a

4:34:35lot of atrisisk youth right now that um

4:34:38are

4:34:40experimenting with the opioid use. Are

4:34:43you willing to incorporate um something

4:34:45of that nature within your program um

4:34:49where you could be available for that

4:34:51funding um and not only from a city

4:34:54level but from a state level as well?

4:34:57Yes, we more than welcome that approach.

4:35:00Um, my time at DC Council, I was the

4:35:03senior policy director of Youth Affairs

4:35:05Committee, which involved Department of

4:35:06Youth Rehabilitation Services, which is

4:35:08the DC Youth Jail. Um, so I have more

4:35:11than enough experience working with um,

4:35:14DC youth and those criminally justice

4:35:16involved youth as well. I once was a

4:35:18criminally justice involved youth myself

4:35:20when I was a a minor here in Dover,

4:35:22Delaware. um charge it to don't charge

4:35:25it to my heart, charge it to my mind at

4:35:26the time. But um you know uh we do plan

4:35:29on incorporating a holistic approach to

4:35:32uh youth engagement whether that be um

4:35:35you know becoming a deterrent deterrent

4:35:37programs of uh opioid use or just drugs

4:35:40in general as well as workforce

4:35:41development as well as mental health as

4:35:43well as sports as you know whatever is

4:35:46needed. We ultimately and we hope to

4:35:48utilize community members that have this

4:35:49programming and organizations that

4:35:52already provide this programming but

4:35:53don't necessarily have a hub to provide

4:35:55this service at. So, we're hopeful to uh

4:35:57for the foreseeable future be able to um

4:36:00partner with these organizations and

4:36:02again develop that community economic

4:36:05hub, I mean um excuse me, relationship

4:36:07amongst across the city versus everyone

4:36:10working in silos and a bit of

4:36:12self-preservation uh ultimately

4:36:15kicking in.

4:36:17>> Thank you.

4:36:17>> All right. Well, thank you so much.

4:36:21>> Thank you very much.

4:36:22>> Thank you.

4:36:23>> You can uh relax for a few minutes and

4:36:26We're going to go and uh we have some

4:36:28people signed up who would like to

4:36:30speak.

4:36:31>> Thank you for the opportunity.

4:36:32>> Thank you.

4:36:41>> Looks like the first person for this one

4:36:43is William Holden.

4:36:53>> Good evening, council. Good night. We've

4:36:55been here for a while, right? Uh my name

4:36:57is William Holden. I'm a longtime

4:36:59resident of Delaware. I grew up with

4:37:01Dante and Perez. And as a youth playing

4:37:04outside, going to parks, one of the

4:37:06biggest things we always wanted to do

4:37:07after playing in the park is experience

4:37:09what hardwood floor felt like playing

4:37:11basketball. When you were a kid, when

4:37:13you got on the hardwood floor, if any of

4:37:15you played basketball, you just it was a

4:37:17different experience. This is a

4:37:18different feeling. And I'm talking from

4:37:20a kid back then. I want those

4:37:22experiences for my children now locally.

4:37:25I have a 10-year-old son. He's he was

4:37:27he's uh a home asleep. Uh but I would

4:37:31love to be able to have him be able to

4:37:33go to these local fields instead of

4:37:35driving past the turf, driving past uh

4:37:38the Chase Center up there with the Chase

4:37:40Fieldhouse and there's games in those

4:37:42fields. So having an opportunity like

4:37:43that for my son to be able to go to, I

4:37:45would love that. Uh, and to speak from a

4:37:48business standpoint, I'm a videographer

4:37:49and photographer. A lot of the times on

4:37:51weekends, I will get hired to go to

4:37:53these events. And at these events,

4:37:55there's thousands of families

4:37:58regularly. Is there opportunity for

4:38:00people to start food trucks? Yes. Is

4:38:02there opportunity for vendors to start

4:38:04cleaning these places? Yes. Is there

4:38:06opportunity for merch or just small

4:38:08restaurants? Yes. So to be able to have

4:38:10something like this in do right where

4:38:12Dante and TZ are proposing at that mall

4:38:15which we all know is just terrible right

4:38:17now right having those be able to open

4:38:19up those small businesses uh it'd be

4:38:21great for the city and I'm very much in

4:38:23favor of it. I did write a letter of

4:38:25recommendation that is in that packet as

4:38:27well. Good night.

4:38:31>> Thank you.

4:38:34>> Next is Mike Conway.

4:38:45Good evening. My name is Mike Conway.

4:38:47I'm a Delaware resident. I'm the

4:38:49co-founder of Futurized Soccer Ventures

4:38:52along with my neighbor Dr. Igdalia

4:38:54Jackson. I appreciate the opportunity to

4:38:56speak in support of a youth sports

4:38:58center in Dover. I've spent more than 40

4:39:00years working in soccer first as a

4:39:03professional player and in

4:39:05then in team operations, youth

4:39:07programming, sales, marketing, and

4:39:09facility management. I worked 28 of

4:39:11those seasons with the Baltimore Blast

4:39:13of the major indoor soccer league.

4:39:16Served as vice president and general

4:39:17manager of the Philadelphia Fury and

4:39:19most recently served as vice president

4:39:21of operations for soccer universities

4:39:23where I assisted in running professional

4:39:25team and its facilities in Sesara,

4:39:27Italy. Earlier in my career, I helped

4:39:29coordinate sports programs for Baltimore

4:39:31City Wreck and Parks and indoor soccer

4:39:33events at Myers Pavilion and Duburns

4:39:35Arena. Those experiences taught me what

4:39:38a well-run sports facility can mean to a

4:39:40community. I myself am a product of

4:39:43Baltimore City Recreation and Parks,

4:39:45which was which once had thriving

4:39:47centers. For young people, a sports

4:39:50center can be a place to learn skills,

4:39:52make friends, build confidence, and find

4:39:55mentors.

4:39:57For parents, it can be a dependable

4:39:59place where their children are active,

4:40:01supported, and safe. A center in Dover

4:40:03could serve families from the city and

4:40:05surrounding communities with programs

4:40:07for beginners as well as experienced

4:40:09athletes. It could give children

4:40:11opportunities throughout the year,

4:40:12including after school, on weekends, and

4:40:14during school breaks. I also believe the

4:40:17v the benefits could reach beyond the

4:40:19athletes. Camps, leagues, and

4:40:21tournaments can bring vi visiting

4:40:23families into do. Those families may

4:40:26stay at local hotels, eat at local

4:40:28restaurants, and shop at local

4:40:29businesses. With thought thoughtful

4:40:32scheduling and strong community

4:40:33partnerships, the center could become a

4:40:35gathering place that people return to

4:40:37season after season. I would be

4:40:40interested in helping turn that

4:40:41potential into an active program. I

4:40:44could help organize soccer training,

4:40:45camps, leagues, tournaments, drawing on

4:40:48my experience with staffing, scheduling,

4:40:51event operations, and building

4:40:52partnerships. Over the years, I've

4:40:54developed relationships across

4:40:56professional college and youth soccer.

4:40:58I'd be glad to reach out through those

4:41:00connections and help bring teams and

4:41:02events to do and start conversations

4:41:04with potential sponsors and partners. I

4:41:07wouldn't suggest that any team or

4:41:08sponsor is already committed, but I know

4:41:11how to make those introductions and

4:41:13build a program people want to support.

4:41:16Through Future Eye Soccer Ventures, our

4:41:18focus is on giving young players

4:41:20opportunities to grow regardless of

4:41:22their background or club affiliation. I

4:41:25see the same possibility in this center,

4:41:27a place that welcomes families,

4:41:29strengthens youth development, supports

4:41:31local businesses, and gives Dover and

4:41:33the surrounding areas something to build

4:41:35together. I believe this is a good idea,

4:41:38and we will welcome the chance to help

4:41:39make it successful. Thank you.

4:41:48Next up is Demar Miller.

4:41:52[snorts]

4:41:58>> Yeah. Hello, council. How y'all doing?

4:42:00>> Uh, glad. Thanks for having me. My name

4:42:02is Demar Miller, also resident of uh

4:42:04Delaware. Grew up with my constituents

4:42:07uh TZ Tro and Dante Daniels. Um, I do

4:42:12also,

4:42:13um, want to get behind this project. Um,

4:42:17I know as a youth, I grew up, uh,

4:42:19playing basketball all my life, played

4:42:21in high school, college. Um, one thing I

4:42:24can contest too, as you go through

4:42:27levels and just get older in the sport

4:42:29and having friends and just and just uh

4:42:32being a youth in general, you see um,

4:42:35you know,

4:42:37having programs is very very essential

4:42:39in the in the in the community. Um, I've

4:42:42seen I've seen do

4:42:45pow leagues to where, you know, it was

4:42:49we had POW leagues, Storming Norman

4:42:50leagues, um, just just various outlets

4:42:53for the children. And as I've gotten

4:42:56older and even grown to have children

4:42:58now, I don't see as many programs as it

4:43:01once was for the youth. Um, and I

4:43:04believe that's a direct correlation to

4:43:06like the crime and like the the negative

4:43:10youth activity in our community. Um, I

4:43:14for one know that having programs and

4:43:17somewhere in somewhere for the youth to

4:43:20go and something for the youth to do can

4:43:22help with their outcome. Uh, it can be

4:43:25definitely a positive outcome. Uh, it

4:43:28will lead more to positive outcomes.

4:43:30Mo most definitely. Um, all aside from

4:43:34sports, I'm also a business owner here

4:43:36in this here in the uh town. Um,

4:43:41something that I've owned. I own the

4:43:43skill on my own far as being a barber.

4:43:47Um, it's just something I want to pass

4:43:49down. So, I see this as opportunity to

4:43:51be a mentor and also to give something

4:43:54to get something that I've learned and

4:43:57pass it down to the pass it down to the

4:43:59youth in the community. So, I'm behind

4:44:01this Get Work Foundation project and uh

4:44:04just hope everybody agrees and and does

4:44:06the same thing. Thank you.

4:44:10>> Thank you.

4:44:14>> All right, that's all on the list.

4:44:22May any others may come forward now?

4:44:27>> Hi, my name is Bonnie. I live in Dova. I

4:44:29want to congratulate you young guys for

4:44:31trying to commute to do something in

4:44:34this community. But I just have one

4:44:36question you guys are doing for the

4:44:38youth. Are you guys going to do for like

4:44:40handicap kids too or is it just for

4:44:42special kids? Are you going to have

4:44:44handicap accessible areas? Because there

4:44:48are a lot of kids out here that people

4:44:49don't know that are disabled.

4:44:53Um I'm just asking a question. If you

4:44:56could come up and I would appreciate it.

4:44:58somebody give me some kind of advice cuz

4:45:00there are kids out here that love to do

4:45:02sports and would love to try to do

4:45:04sports. They just don't have the right

4:45:06mentor to get them through. Not even,

4:45:09excuse me, no disrespect. Do high school

4:45:11don't give them that kind of mentor.

4:45:13Neither does uh the middle school. So

4:45:16basically the parents that are learning

4:45:19disability kids or have them have to do

4:45:21this on their own. So, how would you

4:45:24open up your facility to do something

4:45:26with a disabled child?

4:45:30>> You're you're recognized name.

4:45:33>> Dr. Dante Daniel, Get Work Foundation

4:45:36COO. Um, yes. So there's a there's a

4:45:39section in our proposal actually where

4:45:40we speak about persons with all

4:45:42abilities uh is the appropriate term um

4:45:44used and we spoke about accessibility

4:45:46for persons with all abilities to have

4:45:48access to sports to have and also we're

4:45:52trying to meet with actually a partner

4:45:53in Wington who um autism actually she

4:45:56has a foundation revolving around autism

4:45:58is hope who we're hoping to meet with

4:45:59within the next week or so. Uh so we're

4:46:01looking to partner and develop that

4:46:03ecosystem that more so um increases

4:46:05accessibility for all. So again, if you

4:46:08look in our proposal, there is a section

4:46:09on persons with all abilities.

4:46:12>> So the only TZ, the only thing I want to

4:46:14add is that we also want once this if we

4:46:17are able to get the center is to host

4:46:19special Olympics.

4:46:20>> Okay.

4:46:20>> That was one of the things that we put

4:46:21in our proposal.

4:46:22>> Okay.

4:46:23>> All right. Thank you.

4:46:25>> Thank you.

4:46:26>> Thank you very much.

4:46:27>> Thank you. Anyone else? Please come

4:46:31forward. Thank you.

4:46:37Good evening, council members. I

4:46:39apologize. Um, I wanted to come and

4:46:41stand in support for

4:46:43>> Get your name again, please.

4:46:44>> My name is Rosetta Brick House.

4:46:46>> Thank you.

4:46:46>> Um, I am a teacher at the Early College

4:46:48School here at Delaware State

4:46:50University. I'm a 19-year employee,

4:46:52retired from Delaware State University

4:46:54itself. Um, working in facilities

4:46:57management and now I've crossed over

4:46:58into education. I'm also a three-time

4:47:01coach. I'm also a three-time player of

4:47:04athletics to collegiate level division

4:47:06one. And when I was approached by Mr.

4:47:08Trot and Mr. Daniel for this proposal, I

4:47:12thought, "Wow, it's about time." I

4:47:15personally have a granddaughter that

4:47:16travels up and down the East Coast of

4:47:19the United States to play in tournaments

4:47:22in Kentucky, Run for the Roses, in

4:47:25Virginia, in Pennsylvania. And we have

4:47:28this beautiful city of ours, Dover,

4:47:30Delaware, that could be hosting these

4:47:32same type of a tournaments and given the

4:47:34opportunities for our scholar athletes

4:47:36in this area to promote their skills.

4:47:39So, I stand for it. I stand behind it. I

4:47:43um I offered my assistance to these two

4:47:46gentlemen who have done a diligent job.

4:47:48Thank you both. a diligent job in doing

4:47:51their research and putting their

4:47:53thoughts not only into verbiage but with

4:47:57stats and with data and they're seeking

4:47:59the assistance to get additional data to

4:48:02push forward their cause. Um, in

4:48:06closing,

4:48:08I wanted to to share a thought. Do is at

4:48:11a point where we can make a smart,

4:48:13visible investment that strengthens the

4:48:15city's economy while improving workforce

4:48:17outcomes at the same time. Establishing

4:48:20a multisport complex here through the

4:48:22Get Work Foundation is exactly that, a

4:48:25destination facility that drives local

4:48:27spending, support small businesses, and

4:48:29creates both nearterm construction

4:48:32activity and long-term operational jobs

4:48:35for the city. This is a proven economic

4:48:37multiplier bringing families, athletes,

4:48:40and visitors, increasing demand for

4:48:42hospitality, retail, and services, and

4:48:45strengthening Dover's competitiveness as

4:48:47a place to live, work, and invest. For

4:48:50employment, its workforce development

4:48:52with with real traction. The program

4:48:55connects youth and residents to job

4:48:57readiness, practical education,

4:48:59mentorship, and pathways that help

4:49:01people qualify for work and build

4:49:03lasting careers. So the local talent

4:49:06pipeline grows right here in Dover. And

4:49:09for the youth development, it builds

4:49:10discipline, confidence, leadership, and

4:49:12community connection. Then it

4:49:14intentionally bridges from athletics to

4:49:17workforce education. We're not just

4:49:19building a facility. We're building

4:49:21opportunity that converts into jobs and

4:49:23economic stability. City Council and

4:49:26business leaders, I offer you an

4:49:28opportunity to support this initiative.

4:49:31>> Thank you.

4:49:36All right. Anyone else? Please come

4:49:38forward.

4:49:43>> Good evening. Uh my name is Larry

4:49:45Harvey. I am uh a do resident. I've

4:49:49lived in Delaware or do all my life. And

4:49:52uh I just want to reiterate that

4:49:56um this is a great economic opportunity

4:49:59for Dover, Delaware. uh simply because

4:50:03Do's

4:50:05location is unique in in that it's

4:50:08central to many places. So like Josh and

4:50:11Jamar that stood up here, I have a

4:50:1310-year-old son who um also plays travel

4:50:16soccer um and we also did travel

4:50:18football, but we often go to other

4:50:22states and compete um throughout the

4:50:25weekends. And what what you see is these

4:50:29facilities

4:50:31um

4:50:32filled with different families. And when

4:50:35we go, we take the family, we stop at

4:50:37the different shops, we go out and eat,

4:50:39we find a new restaurant to visit. So I

4:50:43think this this um sports multisports

4:50:47facility will drive some of that local

4:50:50business here. Now, a lot of times we

4:50:53have visitors coming through the state,

4:50:55but they're generally traveling on like,

4:50:57let's say, Route One and they're going

4:50:58to the beach or they're bypassing Dover.

4:51:01I think having a facility here will

4:51:04ultimately bring the traffic in Dover

4:51:06the same way that Valley's or I'll say

4:51:09Dover Downs does um we'll say

4:51:11motorsports. But I think this is a great

4:51:14opportunity for Dover Delaware and I

4:51:16also support the Get Work Foundation.

4:51:18So, thank you.

4:51:19>> Thank you. Anyone

4:51:23else?

4:51:25Okay. Um,

4:51:28I'm going to make a quick statement and

4:51:33there's definitely value to feasibility

4:51:37study for this. Um, I don't think

4:51:39there's a question about that. Um,

4:51:42currently we have the um economic

4:51:45development fund applications are

4:51:47closed. I'm not sure when it's open, but

4:51:49it's at least till next month. Um, what

4:51:54there have also been other organizations

4:51:56that have asked for something similar

4:51:58like the swim center

4:52:01and I think it would be valuable if we

4:52:05asked the staff to explore um combining

4:52:09those in a city-owned study that each

4:52:12organization can access and use fully.

4:52:16uh if we're paying for it, we should own

4:52:18it in my opinion, but it should be

4:52:21public access and they should that they

4:52:24all their criteria goes in. So, it's

4:52:26100% useful and it's uh yeah, and and

4:52:30it's able to be utilized broadly because

4:52:33we

4:52:35we should do this once, not twice, not

4:52:38three times in my opinion. Save the

4:52:40taxpayers money. Anyway, uh is there a

4:52:43motion to refer this to uh staff?

4:52:47>> Silent moves to refer to staff.

4:52:50Is there I'm sorry.

4:52:54>> I'm sorry. Is there a second?

4:52:56>> There's a second, but I thought it said

4:52:58actually not required, but

4:53:00>> it's not required, but then we do

4:53:02absolutely nothing about it.

4:53:03>> All right. I I second.

4:53:06>> All right. Uh discussion. All in favor

4:53:09referring it to staff for review.

4:53:12I I

4:53:14>> Any opposed?

4:53:16Motion carries unanimously. I'm sorry.

4:53:20>> No.

4:53:21>> Okay. Uh the motion carries.

4:53:24Thank you. Uh let's go to the uh next

4:53:28item which is uh item two proposed

4:53:32resolution 2026-12

4:53:35implementing recommendations of

4:53:37independent investigation and review

4:53:40conduct by 2LC solutions

4:53:44and uh and I would uh like to um make a

4:53:52uh statement on that. I

4:53:55uh Miss Chairman Bogardy

4:53:59um would because I am an author of this

4:54:02resolution. I would like to if possible

4:54:06I'd like to u turn this over to you to

4:54:09chair this one item and then be

4:54:11recognized.

4:54:13>> Um I agree to chair this item.

4:54:15>> Thank you. Um the chair recognizes

4:54:20>> the chair recognizes council president

4:54:22the interim council president Anderson

4:54:25to um for item number two proposed

4:54:29resolution 2026-12

4:54:32implementing recommendations of the

4:54:33independent investigation and review

4:54:35conducted by 21cp solutions.

4:54:39>> Thank you Mr. Chairman.

4:54:42First of all, let's uh say what this is

4:54:45not. This is not a

4:54:48uh making a judgment about any

4:54:52individuals.

4:54:54This is about it. What it is about is uh

4:54:59administration of city procedures

4:55:03and council has a right under

4:55:09uh quite frankly in a duty under article

4:55:122 section

4:55:1514 which uh says which basically vests

4:55:19the power of administration and in the

4:55:23council as well as uh section 18 as well

4:55:27as section 32 and other and areas of the

4:55:33uh and even um and even uh the shared

4:55:37responsibilities in in section 53 which

4:55:40uh which talks about the uh which gives

4:55:45the mayor conservatory of the peace but

4:55:47also gives uh council some shared

4:55:50shared responsibilities uh particularly

4:55:53with and and salaries and anulments. Uh

4:55:57an anulment is any benefit that comes

4:56:00out of

4:56:03uh that that is connected with a

4:56:06position. Uh so council is allowed to uh

4:56:10determine that as well. uh the

4:56:13recommendations uh are not something

4:56:15that we invented or but came out of a a

4:56:21stud a uh I wouldn't call it a study but

4:56:26uh report um from uh the 21st century uh

4:56:32policing

4:56:33uh they gave uh some recommendations and

4:56:37uh things seems that those

4:56:39recommendations were

4:56:42uh requested. They cost us tens of

4:56:45thousands of dollars and and there's

4:56:48been a hotly contested public

4:56:55um input on this item. It makes sense

4:56:59that those recommendations uh be brought

4:57:02forth publicly for discussion and

4:57:05review. Um if if you notice uh the

4:57:09resolution

4:57:11um

4:57:13re has the staff to come up with

4:57:16solutions

4:57:17um and gives them 60 days to do so. So

4:57:21that allows the opportunity for all

4:57:24concerns and interests to be balanced.

4:57:27But it gives a direction and the

4:57:29direction is to uh look at uh quite

4:57:34frankly uh article I believe it's

4:57:36article 2 u uh no chapter 30 article 2 u

4:57:423020 which it has to do with the ethics

4:57:45code um H3

4:57:48and make sure that for instance the

4:57:51handbook is consistent with the law. um

4:57:55we need to ensure that the whole city's

4:57:59uh on the same page in a way however

4:58:02that understands that different

4:58:04departments particularly a department

4:58:06like the police department

4:58:09um have different requirements than uh

4:58:12some other departments um and we you

4:58:16know we have to uh look at those in the

4:58:19totality however that must begin and

4:58:24they starting point um I believe must be

4:58:28uh these particular recommendations

4:58:32and then let's uh

4:58:34and then let's uh move forward because

4:58:36these recommendations are consistent

4:58:39with the ordinances and codes that are

4:58:42consistently in place. Therefore, to

4:58:45implement them um we just need to

4:58:48resolve to do so. We do not need a new

4:58:51ordinance. our ordinance is not broken.

4:58:55Um, however, what we do have a problem

4:59:00with is [clears throat] u maybe um the

4:59:02interpretations

4:59:04and council is the um final interpreter

4:59:08except with a court case the final

4:59:10interpreter of what its own ordinances

4:59:13mean.

4:59:15Therefore, um bring this uh resolution

4:59:19for your consideration.

4:59:22I yield, Mr. Chairman.

4:59:24>> Thank you. The chair recognizes

4:59:25Councilman Lewis.

4:59:26>> Uh yes. I would like to make a motion uh

4:59:30that the full report of 21st century

4:59:33investigation be released to the public

4:59:35for full transparency.

4:59:41There's been a motion and then um

4:59:44there's still discussion but there's a

4:59:46motion been made. Anyone Anybody want to

4:59:49second it and then we enter discussion?

4:59:52>> Can I second that?

4:59:56>> Okay, it's been properly moved a second.

4:59:58Um is there any discussion?

5:00:00>> Discussion.

5:00:01>> Discuss

5:00:03discussion. The chair recognizes uh the

5:00:05mayor. Well, may I, Mr. Mayor?

5:00:12>> I think what I have to say is kind of

5:00:13pertinent to just go to

5:00:15>> Okay, if you may. Thank you. Um I would

5:00:18say that um we have extensive

5:00:23uh writing by our solicitor which says

5:00:27that it would be illegal for us to um

5:00:32release this uh report particularly

5:00:35unredacted because it would that would

5:00:38be a violation of the law enforcement

5:00:40officers bill of rights and um that and

5:00:45so I would urge members is uh not to go

5:00:49along with that but to uh follow the

5:00:52advice of our council and I yield to

5:00:55your honor. Thank you.

5:00:58>> Thank you uh Councilman Council Acting

5:01:01Council President Anderson.

5:01:04You know, last night we had some

5:01:06accusations made on this floor that uh

5:01:08the chief and myself had violated some

5:01:10ethical codes that have been

5:01:12investigated

5:01:14numerous times

5:01:16by the Department of Justice internally

5:01:19and through this uh investigation that

5:01:22the city paid $70,000 for.

5:01:26I need to remind council

5:01:29that the terms and the conditions of

5:01:32Chief Johnson's employment were approved

5:01:36by this council after a committee made

5:01:38up of city staff and members of council

5:01:42recommended his hiring and it was

5:01:44brought to the council floor. Let me

5:01:47reiterate to you that uh I don't take my

5:01:50job as willy-nilly.

5:01:53I have asked and received on a weekly

5:01:56basis an accountability of the chief's

5:02:00activities

5:02:02and emails rather detailed

5:02:06of his work product.

5:02:11I believe

5:02:13that this resolution is premature.

5:02:18I concur with Councilman Lewis

5:02:22that the public has a right to know.

5:02:26Uh I have no shield from what was in

5:02:29that report

5:02:31and I insist that before this resolution

5:02:34is acted on by council, we have an

5:02:37obligation to the public and to the

5:02:40people who were investigated in that

5:02:42report

5:02:44to release it.

5:02:47and I will settle for nothing less. I

5:02:50believe in transparency.

5:02:52If I have done wrong, hold my feet to

5:02:56the fire. If I haven't,

5:03:00then don't hold my feet to the fire.

5:03:04But a resolution that's brought to this

5:03:06floor

5:03:07without transparency to the public and

5:03:10questioning at the end of the day, don't

5:03:13question the chief. He reports to me.

5:03:16So, I take responsibility

5:03:18of what was in the terms of his hiring

5:03:21and how he has performed his duties and

5:03:23jobs.

5:03:24But I insist along with Councilman Lewis

5:03:28that the city paid for this report.

5:03:32Transparency must prevail

5:03:36and I have nothing to hide.

5:03:39I have acted within the confines of the

5:03:43of the hiring agreement that the

5:03:45committee made and we brought to a

5:03:47recommendation to a previous council.

5:03:51We have an obligation to maintain those

5:03:53standards for the current chief. You

5:03:55want to change them after he walks away?

5:03:57Do it. But at the end of the day, it's

5:04:00imperative

5:04:02that if this report

5:04:06and DOJ investigations and councils are

5:04:10well aware that we discussed this in

5:04:13executive session probably two or three

5:04:15times two years ago

5:04:18and no action was taken, then it is

5:04:21imperative

5:04:23for transparency

5:04:27that this report be given to the people

5:04:30that paid for it. I rest my case.

5:04:35>> Thank you.

5:04:38Any other members of the committee? Uh

5:04:40the chair recognizes Councilman Dr. Ser.

5:04:44>> Thank you for recognizing me and I want

5:04:45to say thank you to the mayor um for

5:04:47reiterating uh transparency. Uh my only

5:04:51concern is um being that you have in my

5:04:56view implied that you are giving

5:04:59authorization or that you're in

5:05:00agreement with releasing the full

5:05:03report. My only concern is is that also

5:05:06the sentiment of Chief uh uh Tom um

5:05:12Thomas Johnson,

5:05:14right? Or right. Yeah.

5:05:16>> Is that his sentiment? Because I want to

5:05:18make sure that if that is done that the

5:05:22constituents

5:05:24will not be in harm's way of a potential

5:05:27lawsuit

5:05:28um for releasing it. So that's my only

5:05:30concern. Um, I yield.

5:05:34>> Thank you. Um, is that a question you're

5:05:37posing?

5:05:39>> Yes.

5:05:41>> Point of order.

5:05:44>> Uh, point of order. Uh, the chief is

5:05:47represented by council and therefore we

5:05:50are not allowed to question him on on

5:05:53this without his counsel present and his

5:05:55council has given objection to that.

5:05:58>> Yep. All right. Thank you for for for

5:06:01for doing that that the chair

5:06:03re-recognizes the mayor.

5:06:06>> I think it would be very prudent

5:06:10and I've been known to be wrong

5:06:13that this resolution be table

5:06:17for further consideration and that this

5:06:20council

5:06:21uh act in the manner to which it should

5:06:24be done which will not be costly to the

5:06:27city. But I insist on the release of the

5:06:30report on my end.

5:06:34>> So you're waving on your end, which uh

5:06:37is that correct for the record?

5:06:40>> On advice of my attorney, because I have

5:06:43nothing to hide, Mr. Chairman.

5:06:45>> Thank you,

5:06:47>> Chairman. I see you. Is this

5:06:53>> Thank you. I I don't have any concerns

5:06:56or issues with release of the port

5:06:58report, but I do recall having that

5:07:00conversation with the solicitor that we

5:07:02could not release the report. So, I am

5:07:04not going to vote on the motion on the

5:07:06floor without revisiting that discussion

5:07:08with the solicitor. I yield.

5:07:12>> Thank you. Any other members of the

5:07:14committee before we go to public

5:07:15comment? The chair the the the chair

5:07:18recognizes uh um

5:07:22uh Miss uh Smack for public comment.

5:07:31>> Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name

5:07:34is Vondair Smack. Everybody knows me as

5:07:37Smack said it.

5:07:40Um, where is the full 21 CP solutions

5:07:44investigation report that taxpayers paid

5:07:49for? We paid for an independent

5:07:52investigation.

5:07:53Now, we're being handed roughly 1 and

5:07:563/4 pages of proposed resolutions

5:08:00and expected to guess what investigators

5:08:03found.

5:08:05Do deserves better.

5:08:08Spotlight Delaware reported on May 29th

5:08:11that the investigations contract was for

5:08:1450,000. It also reported that the city

5:08:17denied its request for the report citing

5:08:22personnel and pending investigation

5:08:26exemptions.

5:08:28$50,000 is serious public money. Tell us

5:08:32the final amount paid and show us what

5:08:35the money purchased.

5:08:39Um, when this review was announced, WMDT

5:08:43reported that the city expected the

5:08:46findings to be reported publicly upon

5:08:50completion. I've heard several several

5:08:52council people say that, but we still

5:08:54haven't gotten a report. The mayor spoke

5:08:57about integrity and transparency from

5:09:00the jump. Thank you, mayor. I'm asking

5:09:02you to honor that commitment. Even 21

5:09:06CP's own website says it delivered

5:09:10factual findings along with

5:09:13recommendations for do. So where are

5:09:15those findings? Proposed resolution

5:09:18202612

5:09:20calls for restrictions on political

5:09:23beatings with onduty officers, written

5:09:26vehicle rules, secondary employment,

5:09:29safeguards, variable timekeeping for

5:09:33command staff, and written employment

5:09:36enragements.

5:09:37These recommendations raise serious

5:09:40questions.

5:09:41What facts led to each recommendation?

5:09:44Which al allegations were sub

5:09:47substantiated,

5:09:48which were not, and which remained

5:09:51unresolved?

5:09:52What did investigators conclude about

5:09:56the mayor, the chief, or whatever other

5:09:59situations were going on, including

5:10:02interactions involving council members?

5:10:09Recommendations alone did not answer

5:10:11those questions. New policies tell us

5:10:14what you intend to change. The

5:10:17investigative findings tell us why

5:10:19changes are needed and whether

5:10:21accountability is warranted. We should

5:10:24not have to read between lines to

5:10:26understand an investigation we funded. I

5:10:30am requesting release of the full report

5:10:32including its findings, conclusions and

5:10:36supporting material to the fullest

5:10:38extent permitted. If specific

5:10:41information must legally be withheld,

5:10:45redact that information and explain the

5:10:48legal basis for each withholding. Give

5:10:51us a firm release date. Publish the

5:10:54contract, invoices, total amount paid.

5:10:58Let residents ask questions in a public

5:11:01meeting and make the resolutions 60-day

5:11:05progress report public. We deserve to

5:11:09see whether these promises become actual

5:11:13practice. Mayor and council, public

5:11:16trust requires public answers. Taxpayers

5:11:20deserve more than a rel than a

5:11:22resolution asking us to trust that

5:11:25everything has been handled. Release the

5:11:28report, explain the findings, show us

5:11:32the accountability.

5:11:34We paid for answers, and stop asking us

5:11:38to settle for questions. Transparency is

5:11:41the key word. And this is Smack said it.

5:11:48Okay. Is there anyone else um on who? No

5:11:52public any other

5:11:56uh the chair recognizes uh show Paul who

5:12:01was online.

5:12:04Give her a chance to unmute.

5:12:19Hello. Are you able to hear me? Can you

5:12:22hear me?

5:12:24>> Yeah.

5:12:25>> All right. Thank you. Okay. With regards

5:12:28to I I'm totally in agreement with Mayor

5:12:32Christensen. um the fact that um

5:12:38Keith Johnson has an attorney. I also am

5:12:41understanding um where there is if he

5:12:44has not given permission where there

5:12:46could be um legalities with regards to

5:12:49using for the report in itself. So if

5:12:52there is something that needs to be

5:12:54redacted in that report then um redact

5:12:58the information that needs to be

5:13:00redacted so that it is not um there is

5:13:04no

5:13:06release of any personal information or

5:13:08anything um

5:13:11that should not be released with regards

5:13:13to the findings. But taxpayers did pay

5:13:16$50,000 plus um for those findings. And

5:13:21you can't when you're giving a

5:13:23resolution, there needs to you have to

5:13:25be able to know exactly what the

5:13:27findings were to make sure that the

5:13:30resolution actually makes sense to

5:13:32accommodate whatever wrongdoing there

5:13:35was or whatever issues that were found

5:13:37during the investigation. So because it

5:13:40was done in for full transparency for

5:13:43the public, the public deserves to see

5:13:46exactly what transpired and what did not

5:13:49um and know what that what those

5:13:51resolutions are for and what you are

5:13:54actually voting on. I

5:14:00>> thank you. Are there any other public

5:14:03comments or anybody else? Okay. Um, can

5:14:06you uh there's there is a motion on the

5:14:08floor, but I know that the hour's late,

5:14:10so we probably need it need it repeated.

5:14:13Uh, uh, Councilman Dr. Stellar has a

5:14:16question.

5:14:18>> Thank you for recognizing me. um in

5:14:21regards to

5:14:23the the motion and and I understand

5:14:26because I have the same sentiment

5:14:27concern. Is there any way we can get our

5:14:30city solicitor

5:14:32um has you know on the on the line or I

5:14:36mean is there any way to have a legal

5:14:39advice before we take this? I was hoping

5:14:41that he would be here tonight something

5:14:43as as crucial and essential as this but

5:14:46nevertheless we're here now. Um,

5:14:51is there any way that we can send some

5:14:53type of communication to let him know

5:14:55that what is transpiring now and how he

5:15:00would advise us? He's already aware of

5:15:02the situation and the entire dynamics.

5:15:05And so, you know, in the fairness of

5:15:08other council persons feeling

5:15:09comfortable with making decision um or

5:15:14not a decision, I think we need to have

5:15:15the legal advice of our city solicitor.

5:15:17That's what we pay him for.

5:15:20>> Yeah.

5:15:21>> All right. Well, if we were to do that,

5:15:23thank you. If we were to do that, we

5:15:24would have to have a brief caucus for

5:15:26someone to call. Um, but the chair

5:15:29recognizes Councilman Anderson.

5:15:33>> Not not as not as not as

5:15:36>> he can pay big money. [laughter]

5:15:38>> Councilman The chair recognizes

5:15:39Councilman Anderson.

5:15:40>> Thank you. Um, Mr. Chairman, we already

5:15:44have the solicitor's

5:15:46u written viewpoint on the quite frankly

5:15:50on the Maggie Reynolds appeal of the uh

5:15:54foyer. if we want to uh take a uh small

5:15:59break and u and review that and I have

5:16:03pretty extensive uh discussion with them

5:16:06myself um but but we can't we we can't

5:16:12um the the the foyer requests we can uh

5:16:14read out the this the other opinion I I

5:16:18can't because then that would violate

5:16:21the attorney client privilege and you

5:16:23can't do that. Um you have to do we

5:16:25would have to have an executive session

5:16:27for that.

5:16:29>> Um but we can read the um we can get the

5:16:33hold of the uh the foyer appeal if we

5:16:36could uh

5:16:37>> is that

5:16:37>> we want to do that.

5:16:38>> Is there the nexus of the foyer appeal

5:16:41until releasing the report?

5:16:44>> It is it's 100% about the report being

5:16:47why it can't be released in public.

5:16:51>> Okay. Okay, the chair recognizes the

5:16:53mayor.

5:16:57>> I would just caution council to walk

5:16:59softly on this one. I think you need to

5:17:01table this. You need to get more

5:17:03information and I sure as hell wouldn't

5:17:05call the attorney at 11:15 at night

5:17:07because he's where we all should be,

5:17:09home in our bunks.

5:17:12But I think it's important

5:17:15that there be transparency.

5:17:17I have no issue with it. Whether other

5:17:20folks have an issue with it or not,

5:17:23that's for them to choose the right

5:17:24direction that they have to go. But I

5:17:27think it's important that the terms of

5:17:30the chief's hiring, the terms of his uh

5:17:36accountability have been dropped in my

5:17:39lap and I take responsibility for that.

5:17:42So any questions of ethics on his part

5:17:45or any concern about his ethics, he has

5:17:47acted ethically.

5:17:49But I would caution counsel

5:17:53and let me say this again. I've been

5:17:55here a long time.

5:17:57Tread lightly.

5:17:59Transparency

5:18:01is what's owed to the public.

5:18:07>> Right. Any any chair recognizes

5:18:11Councilman Rosha?

5:18:14>> Let me get the peanut butter

5:18:17going [clears throat] down. Um, thank

5:18:19you, Mr. Chairman. Um, so

5:18:25I think we should release this just

5:18:27Gerald Rosha's statement

5:18:30re release the report to the public but

5:18:35and I'm siding with Councilwoman Art cuz

5:18:39you know our memor is not going two

5:18:41years back right when it comes to what

5:18:43the solicitor said

5:18:46um and what was the reasons if you can

5:18:49remember the solicit

5:18:51Was it because of personnel?

5:18:52>> Yeah, it's a it's a violation. Yes,

5:18:55personnel issues number one. Number two,

5:18:58the uh the state has a very strict uh

5:19:01law enforcement officers bill of rights.

5:19:04And uh number three, this is uh an area

5:19:08that is um

5:19:11quite frankly um

5:19:14uh the we we've been asked by council

5:19:18not to as well. Um and so uh therefore

5:19:22no rights have been waved. Um so there's

5:19:26um other reasoning as well, but um that

5:19:30we can't get out in in public, but quite

5:19:34frankly uh can we get the uh foyer

5:19:36appeal up? Um Madame Clerk, that that

5:19:42has

5:19:43the reasoning and is public.

5:19:47Maggie Reynolds.

5:19:50Has he has he it's written Has he done

5:19:53this written? Uh oh, he hasn't done the

5:19:56official written one yet.

5:20:02Okay. So, so we haven't put it. So, it's

5:20:05not out in the public yet. So, okay. We

5:20:07can't we can't disclose that in public

5:20:10yet. So, if you um if you want to know

5:20:13more and you got to get into the

5:20:14executive session, I this motion can't

5:20:17be um it wouldn't take effect anyway

5:20:22until it comes to uh council. Um so

5:20:28there's we can easily just uh dispense

5:20:32with this motion now and and if it's

5:20:34valid in two weeks, we can uh deal with

5:20:37it when we would anyway.

5:20:41It has nothing to do with the

5:20:43resolution. Um,

5:20:44>> you you'll be recognized as soon as what

5:20:47what you're saying is

5:20:49>> commission of dialogue.

5:20:50>> Commission of dialogue and then right

5:20:52afterwards the chair will recognize

5:20:53Councilman Lewis for his question.

5:20:56>> Yes.

5:20:56>> I yield right now to Councilman Lewis.

5:20:59You you can very easily shoot this

5:21:03motion down, but I want it on record

5:21:07that I asked

5:21:10for the full investigation of 21st

5:21:13Century be released to the public for

5:21:16transparency. They paid, I believe, 50

5:21:19plus thousand dollars for this report.

5:21:22And I believe the citizens have a right

5:21:24to know. And tonight, I respect you,

5:21:27Mayor Christensen. I fully respect you

5:21:31for agreeing with me that this report

5:21:34should be released.

5:21:41>> Does that conclude your your

5:21:43>> That my statement? Yes, sir.

5:21:45>> Thank Thank you. That Thank you. The

5:21:47chair recognizes Councilman Rosha.

5:21:49>> Yeah, I I agree with uh Councilman Lewis

5:21:52and the mayor.

5:21:54However,

5:21:56we we need we need another opinion from

5:21:58our solicitor.

5:22:00>> Well, we've he gave it to us in

5:22:02executive session

5:22:04>> and if you wanted stand by stand by

5:22:06council man answers that Rosha still has

5:22:08the floor.

5:22:08>> Well, you gave permission to dialogue,

5:22:10but that's that's okay.

5:22:11>> Yeah.

5:22:12>> Um

5:22:16I don't know if this resolution is going

5:22:18to satisfy as a as a uh

5:22:24substitute.

5:22:27There's not enough meat in the in the

5:22:28resolution for me. So, I'm not in favor

5:22:31of moving this forward. Um, and then I

5:22:35think we should go back with the

5:22:36solicitor or have the solicitor send us

5:22:40an email

5:22:42outlining

5:22:44those specifics that you have said uh

5:22:47why we should not release it or can it

5:22:50be redacted in some type of way. you

5:22:52know, those kind of things is what what

5:22:55I would want to be looking for.

5:23:00>> All right. The chair recognizes

5:23:02Councilman uh Dr. Sutler. Thank you.

5:23:06Just just for clarity, I think the

5:23:08motion on the floor was to release the

5:23:11entire um report, which is, if I'm not

5:23:14mistaken, separate from um the

5:23:19item, the resolution. So just for

5:23:21clarity um chair are we are we voting on

5:23:27the resolution which was what to to

5:23:29release the recommendations or are we

5:23:32voting on for from what I heard this

5:23:35this is not the resolution this is the

5:23:37actual report separate so I just um if

5:23:40we can just get clarity um I'm not too

5:23:43sure what I heard so it's been long it's

5:23:4511 something at night right so my bad so

5:23:48if you could if you could um we can get

5:23:50some clarity

5:23:51on what exactly is on the floor

5:23:53>> as the motion I think is to release the

5:23:56entire report not the not the

5:23:59resolution.

5:24:00>> No,

5:24:00>> which means that item is still standing

5:24:03on

5:24:04>> Yes.

5:24:05>> Right.

5:24:07>> Yeah. Is can you confirm that ma'am?

5:24:10>> Yes. The motion from Mr. Lewis was to

5:24:12release the full report of the 21 CP

5:24:15findings for public transparency. Mr.

5:24:18Servac seconded.

5:24:20Garfield.

5:24:23>> All right. Thank you. There any other

5:24:26comments during discussion? The chair

5:24:28recognizes Mrs. Smack.

5:24:32>> So you said the city I need to just need

5:24:35for clarity. Okay. I just need for

5:24:38clarity so I can do what I need to do

5:24:40next. You said that the city solicitor

5:24:43said because of the law enforcement

5:24:45officer's bill of rights, we the people

5:24:49who paid 50k taxpayers money for this

5:24:52investigation,

5:24:54it can't be released. Is that what

5:24:56you're saying?

5:24:58That's for uh the interim president

5:25:02chair Mr. Anderson because that's who's

5:25:04uh Councilman Anderson. That's who

5:25:07stated that. I just need to know why the

5:25:11solicitor you said out your mouth why it

5:25:14could not be be released to the public

5:25:18said something about law enforcement

5:25:19officers bill of rights

5:25:31the chair recognizes Councilman Anderson

5:25:33for discussion or rebutt

5:25:38And that's one of the reasons. Uh the

5:25:40other had to do with uh let's go back to

5:25:44what this is. Um this normally we don't

5:25:48pay for these investigations that are

5:25:52triggered by internal affairs. Uh this

5:25:54is really an internal affairs

5:25:57investigation, not a public

5:25:58investigation.

5:26:00However, what happened is we uh could

5:26:04not find any

5:26:07outside law enforcement organizations

5:26:10willing to do the investigation.

5:26:12Therefore, we had to pay for um a firm

5:26:17to do it, which has happened before. Um

5:26:20but it's it's rare. We and there that's

5:26:23the only reason we paid for it. But this

5:26:26investigation

5:26:27was quite frankly triggered by the FOP

5:26:31in internal affairs. Therefore, that's

5:26:33not releasable. Um the it has to do with

5:26:38personnel issues which are not

5:26:40releasable. Uh and it has to do with the

5:26:43the latter. Now I have uh requested can

5:26:48the one part be released in the in the

5:26:52in the part the other part be redacted

5:26:54and that's something that that I expect

5:26:57an answer from from our our solicitor on

5:27:02um but that that is still being uh that

5:27:05that still hasn't come back yet and uh

5:27:08so this motion is in my view premature

5:27:11until we get uh that part and you know I

5:27:16have a belief um and my belief is that

5:27:20the um the part that regard an elected

5:27:24official

5:27:25is uh not protected but I want to see

5:27:29that

5:27:30in I want to see that from our solicitor

5:27:33and uh even though I think I know how

5:27:35that's going to come out um we this is a

5:27:38little bit premature right now and of

5:27:40course the mayor's release um will Um,

5:27:44we'll basically make that moot. Um, so

5:27:51>> permission to dialogue.

5:27:53>> Permission to dialogue. Right.

5:27:54>> So what's the purpose of the resolution

5:27:57then versus what you just said?

5:27:58>> The resolution is to enact the um the

5:28:01recommendations.

5:28:03>> It's about policy. is quite frankly

5:28:06there were recommendations and if

5:28:09they're not acted upon then u they

5:28:13then that's it you know then then

5:28:15everything goes status quo and the

5:28:17status quo in my view is unacceptable

5:28:21and so therefore the re the

5:28:23recommendations are being brought

5:28:24forward. Uh we've all read the report.

5:28:27We all we all understand stand

5:28:29understand it. And it's u the question

5:28:32is do we believe the recommendations are

5:28:35valid or are they not valid? That's the

5:28:37that's the simple question there.

5:28:43Thank you. The chair rec uh

5:28:47any

5:28:49council roofer anything?

5:28:52>> The chair recognizes Sher Paul and then

5:28:54Dr. Sler.

5:29:11>> Well, while they're getting that

5:29:12together, Dr. Sutler, I'll recognize you

5:29:14while they're working on something for a

5:29:16show.

5:29:19>> Thank you for recognizing me. Um

5:29:23I for the record um I I too appreciate

5:29:27the mayor's willingness to be uh

5:29:29transparent and I think that

5:29:32as we are servants of the public that is

5:29:36imperative that regardless whether um

5:29:40there's a bill of a bill of rights I

5:29:43think transparency and to you serve the

5:29:46constituents being a public official or

5:29:49public or appointed

5:29:51public official. Um, you're open to

5:29:53public scrutiny. I've had to go through

5:29:55public scrutiny. Other individuals have

5:29:58had to go, other council persons have

5:30:00had to go through public scrutiny,

5:30:01whether it's in their personal life or

5:30:03in their professional life. I think as a

5:30:06public servant, when it comes to the

5:30:08people, especially when it comes to the

5:30:09people's money, that that

5:30:12there is no shield. Um,

5:30:16that's just part of the job. You know,

5:30:18being a public servant is not easy.

5:30:21You're always underneath a microscope.

5:30:24No one has walked on this earth in my

5:30:26view other than Jesus Christ who was

5:30:28perfect. We all make mistakes. I made

5:30:32mistakes. But I think that the bottom

5:30:34line is for us to heal and move forward.

5:30:38Accountability

5:30:40and recognizing that you made that

5:30:42mistake and moving forward helps the

5:30:45entire city. the constituents and the

5:30:50cohesiveness of council to move forward

5:30:54because no one's perfect. I don't hold

5:30:57no grudges against anyone regardless of

5:30:59that report.

5:31:02I I I for you know whatever it is, I let

5:31:05the Lord deal with it. I'm not the judge

5:31:07in the jury, but I do believe as a

5:31:09public servant, you have the fiduciary

5:31:12duty of care to be as totally

5:31:14transparent as you can be. And I think

5:31:17that if I was the the chief, I would

5:31:21just be I would just give permission for

5:31:23it to be released and follow after my

5:31:26superior um the mayor. And Mary, you

5:31:30know, I I I concur and I appreciate and

5:31:34value your leadership on this matter and

5:31:37in other matters as well. And uh you

5:31:40know, it takes a lot for someone to say,

5:31:43you know, it is what it is. I'm open to

5:31:45public scrutiny and that says a lot

5:31:47about you and I too as Councilman Lewis

5:31:51has stated earlier uh respect that and

5:31:53respect you for that and and you know

5:31:56you and I we good so I yield

5:32:02>> thank you

5:32:07>> okay um with regards to

5:32:11um what Councilman Anderson stated with

5:32:14regards to given a resolution.

5:32:17When you are giving a resolution,

5:32:19normally the public has when you use the

5:32:22when you use the $50,000 plus of

5:32:26taxpayer dollars. And at that time when

5:32:30council president Neil made a statement

5:32:33that he was in favor of it because it

5:32:36was going to bring transparency to the

5:32:39allegations and that was the purpose

5:32:42that you voted on to have the

5:32:44independent investigation in the first

5:32:47place. So to change the narrative or to

5:32:51try to to sway the narrative to say that

5:32:55it is it was you know there was no um

5:32:59internal affairs investigation that was

5:33:01available then that that doesn't make

5:33:05sense because it was a waste of taxpayer

5:33:07dollars. Why would it be a waste of

5:33:09taxpayer dollars? because you lack

5:33:11giving the transparency that you stated

5:33:13it was going to bring in the first place

5:33:16at a time that we were already in a

5:33:18deficit. Now, with regards to whether it

5:33:21be right or wrongdoing, if there was

5:33:23nothing done wrong and everything was

5:33:26right, guess what? The report would have

5:33:28already been released. And I think that

5:33:30that's important to know. We need to

5:33:33understand exactly what what the

5:33:36resolution is for because it makes no

5:33:38sense to give a resolution if you are

5:33:41not going to say what the transgressions

5:33:43were.

5:33:46I am

5:33:50thank you. Um is there any

5:33:54any anything else on the matter? Um,

5:33:58I wanted to Well,

5:34:03is there is there is there a motion?

5:34:06Well, there's already a motion. Um,

5:34:11and I guess we should go ahead and move

5:34:13forward with the question. Council

5:34:15member recognized

5:34:17C. The chair recognizes Councilwoman

5:34:19Art. I apologize. It's

5:34:20>> It's okay.

5:34:21>> We're all there with you. Um, so the

5:34:25path forward, as I see it, is

5:34:26tableabling the resolution. I don't

5:34:28think we're going to get anywhere with

5:34:29it tonight. I think it's too late.

5:34:30There's too many unanswered questions.

5:34:32Um, so I think we just put that to bed

5:34:34and and not discuss that any further

5:34:36this evening. And then with regards to

5:34:38the motion on the floor, um,

5:34:42I think we need to revisit the issue

5:34:44with the solicitor and

5:34:47look into the option of releasing it

5:34:50with redactions. and if that is

5:34:52amendable to all. Um, but as far as I

5:34:56don't think we should take the vote. I

5:34:58think we need to refer it back to the

5:34:59solicitor and and and revisit that

5:35:01issue. I'm I would advise council

5:35:04members and and colleagues to think very

5:35:07hard about um doing something against

5:35:10the advice of the solicitor um given how

5:35:13that could have repercussions on this

5:35:15body in the future. I yield.

5:35:20>> Thank you.

5:35:21Um,

5:35:23so the the motion on the floor again is

5:35:26is so we're going to end up having to

5:35:29take two. So the motion on the floor now

5:35:34the motion on the floor now is uh to

5:35:37that made by Councilman Lewis and

5:35:38seconded by Mr. Garfinko

5:35:41is to release the report. Is that was

5:35:45that the motion?

5:35:46>> Yes.

5:35:47>> Yeah. the chair rec.

5:35:49>> Thank you for recognizing me for the

5:35:51last time tonight. Um I I I would

5:35:56I would ask my council colleague,

5:35:59Councilman Brian Lewis,

5:36:01to and the reason why is to to resend

5:36:06the motion. I'm making that request and

5:36:09the reason why is because we need to

5:36:13make sure that our constituents

5:36:16are covered

5:36:18when it when it comes to any legal

5:36:20ramifications

5:36:22from making a decision tonight. I rather

5:36:26make sure that they are covered. Um

5:36:29because I think it would be selfish

5:36:33of me if I voted on this tonight. And I

5:36:37do want to vote on it tonight to get it

5:36:38over with because it's been lingering

5:36:40over ahead for a long time. Um for

5:36:43council, especially one that's been, you

5:36:46know, named. But like I said, I've

5:36:48already turned it over to the Lord, so

5:36:49I'm good with it. But the bottom line is

5:36:51I think for our constituent's sake and

5:36:54for the city's sake, I concur with

5:36:57Councilwoman Art and I think that I

5:37:01think that it would be in the best

5:37:03interest of the city and our

5:37:05constituents to just get the legal

5:37:08advice opinion first and and defer or or

5:37:13you know come back and revisit it. But I

5:37:15would ask that we would come back and

5:37:18visit it within have a special meeting.

5:37:21Then we have a special meeting which you

5:37:23can call within seven days posted and

5:37:26have a special meeting so that we can

5:37:28put this to rest because the

5:37:30constituents and all parties we need to

5:37:33put this to rest. I yield.

5:37:37>> Thank you council. I guess the question

5:37:40is to council.

5:37:42Um, the chair recognizes you in response

5:37:45to Councilman Ter.

5:37:48>> Quite frankly, this has been festering

5:37:50the law. Uh, there's been articles in

5:37:54the newspapers,

5:37:56uh, letters in the newspapers from

5:37:58constituents. Um, I I think we need to

5:38:01make a decision. And like I said, you

5:38:04could very easily shoot me down, but I'm

5:38:08a transparent person and I believe that

5:38:11the report should be released to the

5:38:14public. They paid for it. They paid 50

5:38:17plus,000 for this report. Taxpayer

5:38:19dollar.

5:38:21I The mayor even agrees with me.

5:38:25The mayor even agrees with me that the

5:38:27report should be released for full

5:38:29transparency. So, I call the question

5:38:36All right, there's um

5:38:39the the call to question has been

5:38:41properly moved in a second. Are you

5:38:43ready for the question? And the question

5:38:45again is to release the the full report

5:38:49at this time.

5:38:52All those in favor signify by saying I.

5:38:55>> I.

5:38:57>> All those opposed signify by saying no.

5:39:00>> No. I'm going say no due to the fact

5:39:02that we need to get legal advice to

5:39:04shield the constituents from harm's way.

5:39:08>> Okay. So based on that and so it's a

5:39:11since it's a vote

5:39:12>> chairman point of order a call for a

5:39:13roll call.

5:39:14>> I I am that's exactly what I was going

5:39:15to do. Thank you sir. Uh are we going to

5:39:18do a roll call v vote? Um I'll just

5:39:21start house. See councilman Anderson.

5:39:25No.

5:39:31>> You want me to do it?

5:39:32>> Councilman. Oh, yeah. [laughter]

5:39:34>> Take your job.

5:39:34>> Your job. My bad. My bad. Ain't ate

5:39:37since 11 this morning.

5:39:39>> Miss Art.

5:39:41>> No. On the advice of the solicitor,

5:39:44>> Mr. Rosha.

5:39:47>> Although I want to wait on a solicitor,

5:39:49I'm going to say yes because I believe

5:39:51in the uh transparency of it.

5:39:53>> Dr. Sedler,

5:39:59>> I want to say yes, but uh I have to say

5:40:02no because it's bigger than me. I have

5:40:04to I have to make sure my constituents

5:40:06are shielded. So, I have to say no.

5:40:09>> Mr. Lewis,

5:40:10>> yes.

5:40:12>> Mr. Shioach.

5:40:23No,

5:40:26>> Mr. Garfinkle,

5:40:34>> I'm going to have to vote no

5:40:38because there's just too many

5:40:39outstanding legal questions

5:40:42that could come uh snap us in the butt.

5:40:45So, I'm voting no right now.

5:40:48>> Mr. for Boby.

5:40:50>> Um I no only due to legality. Um and um

5:40:56and I want to know

5:40:58um exactly what our chief John chief the

5:41:02chief is represented by an attorney. So

5:41:05I don't want to I want to make sure that

5:41:07we have a legal opinion since that could

5:41:09come up in future in the future and we

5:41:12got to save taxpayer money more than

5:41:1450,000 cuz a lawsuit's going to cost

5:41:16more than that. Motion fails. Six no two

5:41:20yes.

5:41:29>> The chair recognizes

5:41:32uh Councilwoman Art.

5:41:36>> I make a motion to table resolution

5:41:38202612.

5:41:40>> Second.

5:41:42>> Probably move and second. Um I move for

5:41:45this. Are you ready for the question?

5:41:47All right. There's no

5:41:48>> call the question.

5:41:49>> Call the question.

5:41:55Ready? Are you ready for the question?

5:41:56All those in favor signify by saying I.

5:41:59>> I.

5:41:59>> I. [clears throat]

5:42:01>> I consent.

5:42:03The motion carries.

5:42:06So it'll be table that.

5:42:10That's it. Now I can turn this back over

5:42:12to you.

5:42:12>> Thank you.

5:42:13>> All right. You set me up at 11:45.

5:42:18Thank you very much uh Mr. Chairman. Now

5:42:20for the easy one, the good news where

5:42:23people give us money.

5:42:25>> That uh uh that brings us to item three,

5:42:28community riverwalk assessment grant,

5:42:31Mr. Jason Lion.

5:42:33>> Good morning, chair and council team.

5:42:36>> For those of you that are still here,

5:42:37congratulations. This is awesome.

5:42:40>> Um I will I will defer to any questions

5:42:44at this point. I'm sure you all read the

5:42:45paper. It's one pager. I'll be happy to

5:42:47answer any questions.

5:42:48>> I rec recognize Councilman B.

5:42:52>> In the spirit of my of my late

5:42:54colleague, Councilman Hair, um I move

5:42:56for staff recommendation to authorize

5:42:58the city manager into agreement with the

5:43:01downtown development partnership for

5:43:03allocation of the of the applicable

5:43:06grant finding. Huh. Ro second.

5:43:08>> And it sounded like Mr. Shabbach

5:43:10seconded or M or Councilman Rosha.

5:43:13Actually, I heard it over there first,

5:43:14but it doesn't matter. I'll let the I'll

5:43:17let them figure it out in the minutes.

5:43:19>> All right. Is there um

5:43:21>> question is there discussion?

5:43:24>> Yes.

5:43:26>> Lewis trying to get

5:43:28>> Mr. Mr. Lion. Um is there anyone

5:43:31currently cleaning up the area through

5:43:34federal assistance like the EPA or

5:43:36Denre?

5:43:39Uh we are not uh permitted to receive

5:43:41EPA funding for the cleaning of the site

5:43:43since we were the ones that caused the

5:43:46uh contamination.

5:43:47>> The city caused the contamination.

5:43:50>> Correct. Yeah. We were the owners of

5:43:51that.

5:43:52>> Okay. Um isn't the caveat though with

5:43:55this proposal that the city once again

5:43:58will be giving away land to the downtown

5:44:01partnership if they give us grant money?

5:44:05>> No. Th this this specific proposal is

5:44:09for two items. Uh Dotown Partnership

5:44:12received a multi-purpose grant and

5:44:14within the within the grant confines,

5:44:16they are allowed to perform the the two

5:44:19items that are shown on this one page.

5:44:21>> Uh one is a a building assessment and

5:44:24abatement and the other is a conceptual

5:44:26plan

5:44:28[clears throat] for longtime long-term

5:44:29use. Uh but we are not giving any land

5:44:31away to the downtown do partnership with

5:44:34this proposal. Okay. I just wanted to

5:44:36make sure on that. Uh that's all I have.

5:44:39>> Thank you.

5:44:40>> Thank you. Any other discussion?

5:44:44All in favor?

5:44:45>> I.

5:44:47>> Any opposed?

5:44:50>> Motion adopted.

5:44:52And

5:44:54is there any other business for the

5:44:56legislative finance administration

5:44:58committee?

5:44:59Uh there is none. It stands to journ. Is

5:45:02there any other business for the council

5:45:04committee of the whole? Seeing none,

5:45:07journ. Thank you. Good night.

5:45:15>> Yeah. Breakfast time. Yeah.

5:45:18>> I hop run. [laughter]

5:45:22No, they're not. They changed their

5:45:24hours.