2026-09-30 - Legislation Committee

27:35chair when you only you have one chair.

27:38Um [laughter]

27:42>> you only have one chair. One chair more

27:43than you need. Yeah. Come on down.

27:51>> I like to have a little bit more.

27:55Looks like

28:15>> she did like the

28:23>> I do when I

28:25something in terms of font size and

28:27whatever.

29:01Yeah,

29:09>> I definitely still feel

29:20Okay. Hello, Mr. Chair.

29:21>> Hey, Mr. Chair.

29:22>> Welcome back.

29:23>> How was your trip?

29:26[laughter]

29:27[snorts]

29:28>> How you doing? I'm

29:29>> doing great. It's a long story.

29:32[laughter]

29:47more.

29:56>> It's looking better.

29:57>> It is

29:59>> now.

30:00>> It is on the other side. Is that the

30:02worst?

30:04It's [clears throat and laughter] It's

30:05up to you.

30:07>> Oh, my eye doctor. I had to go see her.

30:15>> Yeah, my husband was like, "Well,

30:18[snorts]

30:23>> yeah,

30:25the glasses to the impact.

30:49Yeah.

30:51>> Ready colleagues?

30:52>> Yes sir.

30:56>> [clears throat]

30:59>> Thank you.

31:01>> You said we're set, Mr. L. You are ready

31:03to go.

31:06>> Good evening, everyone.

31:08I'll read the notice for this evening's

31:11meeting. Um,

31:15actually, I'm going to ask Maran to read

31:19it. The eye doctor. My eyes are still a

31:21little dilated.

31:24>> Oh, yes. Uh, madame chair,

31:28>> that would be great.

31:30>> Uh, yep. If you could read the notice

31:33and then I'll take it from there. My

31:35eyes are still violated.

31:38>> We got a hearing back.

31:41>> Oh, I got to get my glasses. [laughter]

31:46>> It's good to be young.

31:51[clears throat and cough]

31:59larger or smaller.

32:07[clears throat] Okay. Good evening. Good

32:09evening everyone. Um, board of alers

32:13notice and haven the legislation

32:16committee the board of alders will meet

32:18in person on Wednesday September 30th

32:202026 6 p.m. in the board of alders

32:23chambers located at 165 Church Street

32:26second floor New Haven Connecticut to

32:29hear and act on the following

32:30[clears throat] items. 1 O 20260022

32:36ordinance amendment of the New Haven

32:38Board of Alers to title 3 code of the

32:41general ordinance chapter 29 traffic and

32:44motor vehicles article 3 parking

32:47stopping and standing division one

32:51amending sections 29 through 53

32:54concerning the parking of oversized and

32:57commercial vehicles in residential park

33:00and cemetery zone districts. two

33:04O R 2026 O23

33:08ordinance amendment of the New Haven

33:10Board of Alers to title three code of

33:13general ordinance chapter 29 traffic and

33:16motor motor vehicles adding article six

33:21four entitled okay entitled automated

33:26parking control systems three O 2026

33:310025 Five, ordinance amendment of the

33:34New Haven Board of Alers to the city of

33:37New Haven's code of Ordinance amending

33:39chapter 14 section 14-6 to update the

33:43city's juice bar event process. Per

33:46order, honorable chair furlow, honor,

33:50honorable Richard Furlow chair attests

33:52honorable Michael Smart, city town

33:55clerk. These items are on file and

33:58available in the city of legislative

34:00services city hall 165 Church Street,

34:04second floor, New Haven, Connecticut

34:0606510.

34:08or access accessibility related

34:10accommodations, please call 203-94676514

34:16or 2039468582

34:20TTYTD.

34:22Public testimony, comments, testimony

34:25may also be submitted via email to

34:28public testimony at new havenct.gov

34:31before 2 pm on the date of the meeting.

34:34This meeting may be viewed on the New

34:36Haven Board of Alders UT YouTube page.

34:40Thank you.

34:42>> Thank you, Madam Vice Chair. Uh we'll

34:45just run through a little bit of

34:47housekeeping. Uh we'll ask first of all

34:50that if you have a cell phone, please

34:52silence it or put it on vibrate. Any

34:54conversation

34:55that you may need to have, please have

34:57it in the hall. These microphones pick

34:59up everything. And so we want to make

35:01sure that only testimony is being heard.

35:04Which brings us to the next point. If

35:06you would like to testify on any of

35:07these items, m is there a sign there's a

35:11>> there's a signup sheet on the table

35:15uh underneath one of those mayors. And

35:19uh so just sign up over there. We'll

35:21call your name as you've signed up. Uh

35:25when you come, please give your name and

35:27address for the record and then you will

35:30have three minutes to testify before I

35:33call the presenters up for this item.

35:36But for these items, I will ask the

35:39committee to introduce themselves

35:40starting from my right.

35:43>> Alder Carmen Rodriguez, W six.

35:46>> Good evening. Um Mr. Chair, Evelyn

35:50Rodriguez, W 4. Amy Marks, W 26.

35:55Janette Morrison, W 22.

35:58>> Richard Furllo, Ward 27. Adam Marshon, W

36:0125.

36:01>> Leas Theodore, Ward One.

36:04[clears throat and cough]

36:04>> Thank you. And uh good evening,

36:05colleagues. Thank you for being here

36:08this evening. Uh we will call

36:12the presenters for our first item,

36:16O R2026-00

36:2122. [snorts]

36:23[clears throat]

36:30So, I think

36:32>> I think what we'll do is you're going to

36:34do all three.

36:36>> I'm going to be here for the first one

36:38to support and then I'll be back for the

36:40third. She's got the first two.

36:42>> The first two?

36:43>> Yes.

36:43>> And then the third one will be you

36:47deputy. Oh, the third one. Okay.

36:51Uh,

36:53I'm just trying to catch my time

36:55[snorts] tonight. So,

36:58um, so we'll, you know what? We're going

37:00to hear all three together.

37:02We'll bring up the third. We We'll do

37:05one and two and then we'll invite um,

37:09Lieutenant to come for the third one.

37:12Does that make sense?

37:14>> Surely it's the other one.

37:16>> Oh, it's not. Okay. Um, I want to hear

37:19all three at the same time is what I'm

37:20saying. And then we're going to have

37:21public testimony at the end on all three

37:23of these items just to kind of keep it

37:25keep it all together. Okay. Uh,

37:29um, just follow my queue and then I'll

37:31follow your queue and then we'll be

37:32fine. Okay. [laughter]

37:33>> Stephen the third one.

37:35>> Okay. All right. Uh, your name and

37:37address for the record. Welcome.

37:38>> Thank you. Uh, good evening. My name is

37:40Haley Simpson. I serve as a director of

37:43transportation traffic and parking. Uh,

37:44I reside at 93 Plus Street, New Haven,

37:47Connecticut 06519.

37:49>> Rebecca Bomero, deputy chief

37:50administrative officer 22 West Capital.

37:53>> Great. You have the floor.

37:55>> Thank you. Good evening, alders. It is a

37:58pleasure to be in front of you again.

38:00Um, what I have for you today is an

38:03ordinance amendment. I will, if it's

38:05okay with you, Mr. Chair, that I share.

38:07Sure.

38:08>> Um, I made sure to bring plenty.

38:12There we go. I also printed off a copy

38:14of the amendment. The proposed amendment

38:17if you all didn't have it.

38:20>> Could you say that again?

38:21>> I have a copy of the proposed amendment

38:23if you need a copy of it.

38:25>> Uh let's have the the paper copy. I'm

38:28not sure if anyone get the email.

38:31>> Thank you.

38:33>> Thank you.

38:37>> All right. So, what you have in front of

38:39you today um is an ordinance amendment

38:42to section um

38:45>> I'm sorry.

38:46>> I'm sorry.

38:47>> Give us a minute to get everything

38:48organized.

38:50>> Two different

38:55excuse me.

39:02>> Okay.

39:09>> [clears throat]

39:11[cough]

39:12>> Thank you.

39:13>> No problem. Um so what you have in front

39:15of you is an ordinance amendment to um

39:18our code of general orders ordinances

39:21I'm sorry uh chapter 29 traffic and

39:23motor vehicles article 3 for parking

39:26stopping and standing division one

39:27amending section 29-53

39:30concerning the parking of oversized and

39:33commercial vehicles and residential park

39:35or cemetery zoning. As a lot of you know

39:38I've received a lot of emails from you

39:39all. This has become a problem

39:42throughout the city. Um we have had a

39:44number of folks visit our office and say

39:46the ordinance is not clear where they

39:48can and can what constitutes as an

39:50oversized vehicle. So what this

39:53ordinance amendment does um is sort of

39:56clarifying what we mean by um oversized

40:00vehicles. Uh so the language um it

40:04provides classification for the vehicles

40:06in which we are referring to the certain

40:08restrictions and um ex exceptions uh to

40:11that. Um so as you will see

40:15for the first section um where we

40:17clearly uh list out the vehicles that

40:20are prohibited um the gross weight, the

40:22length, the width etc. Um we wanted to

40:26um identify the vehicle size and the

40:28threshold and the vehicle types that are

40:30subjected to this restriction. Um and it

40:34also this amendment um specifies when

40:36service delivery utility and municipal

40:39and or private passenger vehicles are

40:41not subject to those restrictions. Um so

40:44just to um clarify again what some of

40:47those amendments are um is we are now

40:50including the size capacity. So more

40:53than 12,000 pounds, more than 20 feet in

40:56length, more than 12 feet in height,

40:59more than 8 feet in width. um in certain

41:02vehicles over um three4 ton capacity. Uh

41:06and the different vehicle types that we

41:08were referring to were boat, utility,

41:11flatbeds, and campers or trailers, which

41:14I you're shaking your heads because I've

41:16probably gotten an email um from you

41:18about these um recreational vehicles or

41:21campers, vehicles with more than four

41:23wheels,

41:25the larger vehicles with more than four

41:26wheels, not your average size SUVs. Um

41:29dump trucks and tow trucks. uh

41:31construction vehicles, equipment, and

41:32other non-passenger vehicles. Um so

41:35those that fall into those

41:36characteristics would be what this

41:38amendment um obviously um clearly

41:42identifies what the um uh what they're

41:44prohibited um from doing. Um and so uh

41:48certain exceptions to this amendment are

41:51service vehicles. So while they're

41:52actually performing the service um

41:56uh for um longer than necessary then

42:00that's when that um this is sort of

42:02triggered. Um when um uh public service

42:06company vehicles um they can obviously

42:09occupy the space when it's necessary to

42:11perform the service at the nearest

42:14residence or building for delivery

42:16vehicles um for the period that's

42:18reasonable or necessary to make that

42:20delivery. Um and for municipal uh

42:23vehicles, of course, they are obviously

42:26allowed to park where they want to. Um

42:28so for private passenger vehicles,

42:30including SUVs, family vans, and pickup

42:32trucks used for personal transportation,

42:35this obviously does not apply um to

42:37them. Um and that is the gist of the

42:41amendment that I had. It's pretty short

42:44and sweet and just really making it

42:47clear what those uh restrictions are. Um

42:49they would of course have 72 hours I

42:52believe is what we propose

42:55um the limit to parking would be um

42:59before it is triggered by you know us

43:02having to tow or remove the vehicle. Um

43:06and that is

43:07>> I just want to add uh many of you might

43:10have been here about three years ago

43:12when we addressed this the last time. Uh

43:14prior to that uh the there was a

43:17[clears throat] loophole in cemetery and

43:18park zones and the definition for an

43:20oversized vehicle was quite out of date

43:22and actually captured a Honda Civic at

43:24this time. Uh so we did struggle with

43:27the definition at that point and I think

43:30uh through the lived experience TTMBB

43:32has done a great job of refining

43:34[clears throat] that um and making sure

43:36that it is clear not only for those that

43:39are doing the enforcement that uh those

43:40that are trying to adhere to the

43:42regulation.

43:52Okay, I'm going to before I open up to

43:55committee, just help us with this. Where

44:01is where where is this amendment is

44:07where

44:08>> that was the clean copy that was

44:10submitted.

44:14>> Let let I I have the floor just for now.

44:16Let me just get through the question and

44:18then I'll recognize colleagues.

44:20Um, so this is section 29-53.

44:25>> That's correct.

44:26>> I'm going to just Is this Is this here

44:29or is this new?

44:32>> I printed this directly off of the

44:33website from what we submitted in July.

44:36>> Okay.

44:36>> Yeah,

44:38>> got it.

44:38>> So, you probably have the red line

44:40version. She gave you the clean.

44:41>> The clean version. Yeah. I'm sorry. I

44:42should have printed off the red line.

44:43I'm sorry.

44:44>> No, that that's fine. I just um and

44:46that's it. I'm a little dilated still,

44:48>> so I'm [laughter] just trying to make

44:49sure I follow what's going on. Okay. Uh

44:53great. We'll go to questions from

44:54committee.

44:57>> All marks on that. Mr. Chair, um I do

45:01notice sorry stick there for um periods

45:04and comments. Um it's different than

45:06what we have in our packet. So um

45:09noticing for instance um 2953b

45:15uses the word like one of the following

45:17characteristics and drops the

45:18punctuation between subsections refers

45:21to B on the other one didn't have the

45:22word one and instead have punctuation

45:25with or

45:27which is the operative definition

45:35but okay

45:37Mr. Sure. If I showed the packet that we

45:39have today.

45:39>> Sure.

45:59>> [snorts]

46:00[clears throat]

46:05>> We're going to take a moment with that.

46:06If what's in the package is the

46:09corrected

46:11>> thing, then we will

46:12>> Yes,

46:12>> we will um

46:18>> star 69.

46:20I don't know what star 69 means, but

46:22we'll [laughter]

46:23call back.

46:24>> Did that fall back?

46:26>> Yep. Yeah, it was right.

46:28>> Yeah. So, we'll recycle this one and

46:29we'll just stick with what's in our

46:30package and we'll just take you

46:32>> stick with what's in your package.

46:33>> Okay. So, this is just this is just for

46:36our information, not um something that

46:39we use as the actual amendment.

46:41>> Thank you.

46:41>> No, thank you. And I I have some other

46:43questions, but I don't mind waiting. Mr.

46:44Chair,

46:45>> you have the floor. Go right ahead.

46:48>> Thank you. Um just thank you. So I

46:50understand and thank you for doing this.

46:52Um I am one of the elders who provides

46:54steer constituents with concerns about

46:56commercial vehicles. Um

46:58you're replacing the current 2953 in its

47:02entirety with this 2953.

47:04>> We're adding language there to clarify

47:06what we mean by oversized vehicles. So

47:08the current section 29-53.

47:14So some of this is red line and some of

47:16it is existing.

47:18>> That is correct. I'm sorry. An

47:19amendment.

47:20>> Yes.

47:36>> I'm sorry Mr. I don't see red lining in

47:39my

47:39>> Yes. So we we don't have the red line in

47:42our packet.

47:45>> Um

47:49Mr. Chair to me in the whole but I would

47:51be interested in seeing what the

47:53addition is versus the existing.

47:55>> Yeah I

48:00if you need me to recirculate I'm happy

48:02to do that.

48:05>> Okay. Um I think that would be helpful.

48:09Um

48:13it's it's necessary for our final vote.

48:18>> Yeah.

48:19>> Uh so

48:21>> um yeah, if you can just get that to me

48:23then that would be helpful.

48:25>> Uh

48:27and then

48:29we will I I really I I need to be the

48:32only one talking. I I need to be the

48:34only one talking please because I'll get

48:37distracted and just so we can keep

48:40>> everyone having one voice so we can all

48:42just talk and turn.

48:45>> Um we know how to do this right?

48:47>> Yes we do.

48:48>> We know how to run a have a committee

48:50meeting.

48:51>> Um

48:53okay. Yes. So if we can get that and um

48:56colleagues, have you had a chance to

48:57review what's already here or what's in

48:59the package

49:00>> already?

49:02>> All right. Mr. Chair, one final

49:04question.

49:05>> Sure. Go ahead.

49:05>> So, thank you. It looks great as is.

49:07Thank you. Just want to do our due

49:08diligence to make sure we see what

49:09exists. Um, my side question, but just

49:11given that I have the floor. Um, and you

49:13know what my constituents are going to

49:14do? They're going to move the commercial

49:17vehicle off the street into their front

49:19yards. Um, what what do we do about

49:21that?

49:21>> Parking is a zoning violation. Uh, so it

49:24would go through LCI and then be

49:27referred over to building.

49:29>> So, you're prepared questionably. Are

49:32you prepared for for that that move

49:34which I think is

49:36>> if it's in their driveway it's okay.

49:38>> I understand that the driveways are full

49:40in the areas where this parking is

49:41happening or driveways don't exist.

49:42These vehicles are going to move into

49:44front yards is my concern.

49:45>> Would it be helpful if we sort of put

49:47together a one pager because that would

49:49be a matter of um I think it's LCI and

49:53zoning um regulations that we sort of

49:56put that all together to say you can't

49:58put it on the front lawn. But

49:59>> I I would appreciate that. Thank you,

50:01Mr. Chair. That was just the concern.

50:04>> Yeah.

50:04>> On the street in which the commercial

50:06vehicles are mostly packed

50:09>> and LCI does enforce that. Um [snorts]

50:12I we are kind of down one in the

50:15Westville area right now, but um LCI or

50:18the building department does

50:20[clears throat] ticket or at least gives

50:24letters first warnings letting people

50:26know that they cannot park on their

50:29front lawn without going to BCA

50:32>> and requesting some sort of variance or

50:36exception is what are those two?

50:38>> Special exception.

50:38>> Special exception be a partial there.

50:40Yeah, but that's something that that our

50:42LCI specialist [snorts] and our building

50:44department does do regularly.

50:47>> Um, but yeah, but anything that can be

50:48helpful to your department certainly

50:50would be a help. Anything else?

50:54>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

50:55>> Okay, I think I saw Alder Theodore and

50:57then we'll go to Alder Rodriguez.

51:00>> Thank you for this. Um,

51:03I just had a question about section D

51:06and like can you talk me through what

51:08enforcement looks like for or like how

51:12do you all measure the time necessary

51:15for performance of a service

51:17>> and can you tell me a little so like

51:19someone can park here for 72 hours and

51:21that is the point where they will get

51:23towed? No. So, um,

51:28every area has parking restrictions as

51:30you know. So, typically if it's like a

51:32standard SUV, they're not allowed to

51:33park in one area for more than 40 or 72

51:37hours before they're ticketed and or

51:39towed. That's how it is currently

51:41written. The same would apply for these

51:44larger vehicles. And how we time that is

51:46usually the residents will either call

51:48us or email us or however they get in

51:50contact with us and let us know we see

51:52this vehicle that's been here for a

51:53certain amount of time. We will go out,

51:55we will place eyes on that vehicle um

51:58and if they, you know, call us the next

52:00day or something like that, but we

52:01typically go out and check for ourselves

52:04to start the timer um to see how long

52:06they've been there. And um if it's a

52:09larger vehicle like some of you know

52:11that requires a um larger tow truck that

52:14takes a little bit more time. So the

52:15earlier we get out there to start the

52:18timer the the better it is for us to

52:20call a tow truck that can accommodate

52:22that size.

52:24>> Sweet. That makes sense. Thank you. In

52:25terms of the measuring you know what is

52:29necessary for performance of a service.

52:32Can you just talk me through that

52:35>> or like what's it I'll give an example.

52:37>> So a U-Haul truck uh making you know

52:40moving a house might take all day but

52:42the same size truck that is the uh FedEx

52:47delivery guy is not going to take all

52:49day.

52:49>> Okay great thank you very much. Thanks

52:52for doing this. No problem.

52:53>> Thank you Mr. Chair Rodriguez.

52:56>> Thank you Mr. Chair. Uh if you can

52:59clarify, [clears throat] so if we have

53:01an oversized vehicle,

53:04is it allowed? Because I am getting

53:06calls, but it is from the Longworth

53:08Corridor across from the boat house. We

53:10have vehicles that are taking up to

53:13three or four spaces and they're there

53:16[clears throat]

53:16um longer than the allotted time.

53:22>> [cough and clears throat]

53:22>> So, I will have to review the zoning

53:25because I do believe that area is

53:28currently zoned for like mixed use.

53:31>> It is one of the it doesn't fall into

53:34district. So, they technically are

53:36allowed to park there. Um, but I will I

53:40will review the zoning on that. Um

53:43because I think this was a a a driver

53:46actually came into our office and asked

53:47about that and we started the

53:48conversation with um city plan about

53:52taking a look at those zoning

53:53regulations. Um so more to follow on

53:56that that would have to come from the

53:58city plan side. Um but as it's currently

54:01zoned I think

54:03>> I would believe so. Yeah. Because the

54:05underlying zone of that special was

54:08industrial industrial zones they are

54:10permitted.

54:11>> Yeah.

54:14Follow question, Mr. Chair.

54:16>> Yeah. Would you like that information

54:17through the chair or would you

54:19>> through you? Yes.

54:21>> And my additional question is if they're

54:24so they're allowed to sleep in the cab

54:27as well.

54:31>> If they're in in the industrial area in

54:34[cough] and where I'm talking, um

54:37they're allowed to stay and sleep in

54:40their cats.

54:42because that's the concern that some of

54:45the residents are having that it's not

54:47just it's dropped but the the truck

54:50driver obviously has the fun

54:52>> that they're saying and they're like

54:53resting in there.

54:54>> Yeah.

54:55>> Um

54:57I I want to make sure I understand the

55:00question. Are you asking if it's okay

55:02for them to sleep in their cab or

55:04>> is it allowed? Is it part of it? you

55:07just mentioned it's an industrial area

55:09where obvious obviously the sports haven

55:12has come down um and we do have trucks

55:15in that area that are there um overnight

55:18sometimes two days

55:21>> so if the truck driver is using their

55:24cab as a sleeping area as opposed to

55:26going to the Mayflower in Milford is

55:29that something that's allowed our

55:31regulations are silent on that

55:40>> Mr. Chair, I think getting a little bit

55:42more information because that's what a

55:44lot of the concerns of residents are

55:46having. Um because unfortunately we had

55:48a similar um truck that was parking by

55:52uh oh god uh by uh Kimberly

55:57and then we started to have some

55:59concerns with um illicit activity.

56:02>> Okay.

56:08We'll figure that out.

56:09>> Thank you so much. Thank you.

56:10>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

56:13>> Thank you,

56:15>> older.

56:17>> Thank you.

56:22[snorts]

56:23>> Um, Alder M.

56:27>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, uh, one of my

56:30questions I'll hold off on asking

56:31because we just received the redline

56:33version. Okay.

56:34>> And I'll I'll look forward to doing that

56:36momentarily. Uh, one quick comment on

56:40the question. Quick comment is when we

56:43educate residents about it's always

56:46useful to to distinguish between parking

56:49and storage,

56:51>> right? Parking by definition is

56:53temporary placement of a car in a

56:55location until its next use,

56:58>> right?

56:59But storage is where you can keep your

57:01car forever.

57:03I know this because I don't have a

57:04driveway on my property. I park on the

57:07street. I'm not allowed to store my car

57:09on the street. It needs to move from

57:12time to time because that's what parking

57:14is.

57:16But so I never I know I don't store my

57:18car anywhere because I have no property

57:20on which to store my car. I have to park

57:24usually in front of my house but not

57:26always and it moves from time to time.

57:29So, I think that's one thing that So,

57:31when we're dealing with vehicles being

57:34placed in the wrong places, we're

57:37talking about illegally parked, but we

57:39might also be talking about vehicles

57:41being stored. Like, if there's a car

57:43that is quote unquote parked in a

57:45location and it doesn't move for two

57:47months, that's the car that's being

57:49stored in that location. If it's on the

57:51public right away, if it's in a

57:53driveway, then that's a different thing.

57:55But that's I think Am I correct in

57:57making that distinction?

57:58>> Yes. that is already prohibited by

58:00>> already prohibited. But that's an

58:01interesting thing for us to understand

58:03and to know that parking by definition

58:05is different from storage.

58:08>> None of us has a right to store our cars

58:10on public streets.

58:11>> That's right.

58:11>> They have to move from time to time.

58:15>> In my case, that's not a problem because

58:16I have to move it from time to time

58:17anyway because I Okay. That's the

58:20question I have is I think clarifying

58:23the language is useful because it helps

58:26make enforcement easier and helps make

58:29educating residents

58:31easier but it also signals intent.

58:35Right? If you're clarifying the language

58:37then it kind of sends the message that

58:38you want to enforce these things.

58:40>> Yes.

58:40>> Now in my neighborhood

58:43most of the legal parking that I observe

58:46and that my constituents observe is late

58:48at night. when the vast majority of our

58:51parking enforcement personnel are not

58:53parking. Like our our parking

58:56enforcement regimen is largely focused

58:58on daytime activity. Yeah.

59:00>> And it's often very focused on metered

59:03in neighborhoods with metered parking

59:04because there's revenue to be gotten.

59:06>> So, so we come back to the challenge of

59:10like enforcing this ordinance, this

59:13clarified amended ordinance.

59:14[clears throat]

59:15How does that work when in my experience

59:17at least

59:18>> in my observations most of the

59:21violations are happening at 10 o'clock

59:23at night like when I'm driving home from

59:25city hall for example 10:00 11:00 if

59:28it's finance maybe midnight you know so

59:30that's a question

59:34>> the question is how do we intend to

59:37enforce this just so I'm clear

59:39>> um so we do have some parking

59:41enforcement officers that would stay

59:43later than 10 o'clock

59:45I think the challenge there with what

59:47you shared is we cannot say that because

59:50they're parked there at 10:00 that they

59:53have been storing their vehicle there

59:55for more than 72 [clears throat] hours.

59:56So, I do want to make that clear that

59:58the ordinance does say they are

1:00:00prohibited from a certain amount of time

1:00:02from being parked there. Um, and it's

1:00:04important to make sure we include that

1:00:06in the conversation that it's not just

1:00:08today you're parked there and we caught

1:00:11you overnight, but if we catch them

1:00:12there for more than one day, then that's

1:00:14the that's the issue.

1:00:18>> But they're also prohibited from being

1:00:19there. So, it gives other officers an

1:00:22opportunity to have a conversation with

1:00:24them about that prohibition.

1:00:32>> [clears throat]

1:00:33>> I understand your response. It's just in

1:00:35the past when I brought this concern to

1:00:37your predecessor, for example, the

1:00:39answer I almost always got was, "Well,

1:00:40we have nobody to send out." And by the

1:00:42time they the next day when there was

1:00:44somebody who they could send out to the

1:00:45location, it was too late.

1:00:48>> Um, so that's that's just the concern

1:00:51that I'm raising. You know, I think I

1:00:54think I if I were to take the

1:00:56perspective of someone who operates one

1:00:58of these larger vehicles, like they're

1:01:01trying to figure out where they can put

1:01:02it when they're not using it and they

1:01:04don't want to pay some hefty parking

1:01:06garage fee. They're looking to save

1:01:09money, right? maybe park their personal

1:01:11vehicle on top of streets to extra park

1:01:14and then put their truck their big old

1:01:17truck behind it and then take their car

1:01:18home and they you know like I I can

1:01:22understand what the motivation for them

1:01:23to park there but they're not supposed

1:01:25to park there.

1:01:26>> So it's just a tricky thing to do.

1:01:29>> That's it for now, Mr. Chair. Thank you

1:01:31so much.

1:01:33>> Thank you. Any [clears throat] other

1:01:34questions? Alder Rodriguez.

1:01:36>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:01:39>> [clears throat]

1:01:41>> Okay.

1:01:43Our city is focused on increasing small

1:01:46businesses

1:01:48and business owners.

1:01:52Are we before I ask the question related

1:01:55to the topic matter? Are we looking at

1:02:00ways to address

1:02:02those businesses that have commercial

1:02:04trucks

1:02:06on the corner of Columbus near Roberto

1:02:10Clemente School,

1:02:12Columbus and Howard Avenue? [snorts]

1:02:15They parked there in the weekend. Trucks

1:02:19different

1:02:20commercial trucks different time

1:02:23different periods [clears throat] in the

1:02:25weekend. It doesn't seem that it's the

1:02:28same truck. It seems that they're

1:02:31different trucks.

1:02:33I'm not sure if they're identifying

1:02:36locations, but the Hill neighborhood, we

1:02:38have a lot of commercial trucks parking

1:02:41throughout the neighborhood. And I

1:02:44believe that they've identified

1:02:45locations

1:02:47and maybe they're respecting the 72-hour

1:02:50rule.

1:02:52Okay. So, it's it's some it's a

1:02:54concerning matter.

1:02:56Um the question that I have is that

1:02:58there are already some strict

1:03:02regulations regarding parking of the

1:03:05trucks and they're not being complied

1:03:08with. So if we get to be more specific,

1:03:14will that then

1:03:16ensure that actual enforcement is done?

1:03:23Is it were you planning for the air?

1:03:27So I my my question is right now we have

1:03:31a lot of development also going on and

1:03:34we have trucks that come to do exactly

1:03:38what some of the things that you share

1:03:40leaving shipment or working on site

1:03:46will I don't see here at all

1:03:49[clears throat] in the um work that

1:03:51you've done will there be some kind of

1:03:54indication to the residents

1:03:57that the truck is going to be here on

1:03:59the sidewalk or taking a section of the

1:04:03street.

1:04:04>> So I can answer that. So as part of site

1:04:07plan reviews, all large scale

1:04:08construction does have to have a plan

1:04:11for parking for the workers during the

1:04:13development and all the uh new

1:04:16developments do have to meet the city's

1:04:18parking regulations to have ample

1:04:20parking to accommodate the final use. So

1:04:24those are all things that are taken up

1:04:26in consideration at both the planning

1:04:29phase, the city plan approval process,

1:04:31and the final building permits.

1:04:34>> So the residents may not be communicated

1:04:36to because it sounds like you were

1:04:37acting specifically about the residents

1:04:39and not necessarily the developer

1:04:41because if we communicate with the

1:04:42developer that they have to have a a

1:04:45parking plan and a construction staging

1:04:48plan for parking, right? But in terms of

1:04:51the residents is what it sounds like

1:04:53you're asking.

1:04:54>> Um I'm I'm not

1:04:57>> and residents can always report those

1:04:59concerns through Zclick Fix like if

1:05:00you're parked on a sidewalk. I know over

1:05:03um in the Hill neighborhood um at the uh

1:05:07new Maddox and all of those housing. We

1:05:09had a lot of non-compliance uh on that

1:05:12development and there was a lot of

1:05:13parking on the sidewalk going on. Those

1:05:15get reported. Our public space inspector

1:05:17is still out. They both cite them or

1:05:20give the warning to talk to the uh

1:05:23foreman on the site and they get

1:05:25resolution.

1:05:27[clears throat]

1:05:30>> Mr. Chair, um if I may,

1:05:35>> the concern is that the residents learn

1:05:40about the the activity after the fact,

1:05:44so they don't have a chance. For

1:05:47example, in a one-way street, let's take

1:05:50Arch Street where I live and do I have a

1:05:54great project going on there.

1:05:57People park I mean the the trucks come,

1:06:00they park, they take a certain

1:06:03section of the sidewalk.

1:06:06They're not informing the residents

1:06:08ahead of time so that the residents can

1:06:11make plans should they need to do so and

1:06:15not have to worry about going down their

1:06:17street or finding ways of how to get

1:06:20into their homes. That's one example. So

1:06:24you're saying that they do have to have

1:06:27at least some kind of um awareness to

1:06:30sign that they're going to be parked

1:06:33here for a period of time.

1:06:36>> So on the large scale projects for

1:06:39construction, they go through city plan

1:06:40and they have to have a construction

1:06:42plan in place that takes into

1:06:45consideration parking for the

1:06:46construction workers. Um we can take we

1:06:49can uh look into that specific situation

1:06:51a little bit. Thank you.

1:06:53Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sure.

1:06:56Just one more quick question. Um my

1:06:58colleagues question made me think about

1:07:00small businesses and think about people

1:07:02who um are trying to have small

1:07:04businesses and have a vehicle related to

1:07:06that. When the education's out, is there

1:07:08a way to inform residents where they can

1:07:12park their commercial vehicles? The same

1:07:14way when you know you can't park on the

1:07:15street for snow, we notify people where

1:07:17they can because certainly if Alder

1:07:19Marshon had a,

1:07:20>> you know, an electrical a vehicle for

1:07:22electrical repairs or some sort of

1:07:24handyman vehicle, you know, where would

1:07:25he be expected to take his car? Is it

1:07:27possible to roll out information

1:07:29regarding that?

1:07:29>> Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Um, and put

1:07:31together a comprehensive list of where

1:07:32available spaces are. Um,

1:07:35[laughter and clears throat]

1:07:36>> yeah. Thank you. That would be very

1:07:37helpful to us.

1:07:39>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. you want that to

1:07:41come to this committee or

1:07:42>> I was interested if it could be part of

1:07:44the public world if the question was

1:07:45whether it would be possible to have

1:07:46part of the public roll out um

1:07:48information regarding where people can

1:07:50park their commercial vehicles and I

1:07:51appreciate interest

1:07:53>> I guess I'm asking if you're asking that

1:07:54through the chair

1:07:55>> I was not if that's okay just I'm sorry

1:07:57I'm sorry yes you should

1:07:59>> I'm sorry through the I'm sorry through

1:08:01the chair you're um

1:08:03>> through the chair I'd like to ask if

1:08:04it's possible Mr. Ken, could you give

1:08:07that just one more time?

1:08:08>> The request was that the

1:08:10[snorts and clears throat] um city

1:08:11provide uh information regarding where

1:08:14commercial vehicles are allowed to be

1:08:15parked. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:08:19[snorts]

1:08:21>> So that would be by by zone, right? So

1:08:24we would that would be

1:08:28so how how would we how would that make

1:08:31sense for us? So we know that these

1:08:34vehicles cannot be parked in in

1:08:36residential [clears throat]

1:08:38zones which would be called

1:08:41RM

1:08:43one two

1:08:46>> RS2.

1:08:48So um just so I'm understanding

1:08:51[clears throat] because we we can figure

1:08:52that out just by the zones. Are you

1:08:55asking for streets? We could just we can

1:08:58really solve that. Now

1:08:59>> I was asking Mr. true when the for the

1:09:02public roll out when we're when when

1:09:04they're notifying the public that we're

1:09:06really going to go ahead and be serious

1:09:09about the commercial vehicles, we're

1:09:10going to tell people that pursuant to

1:09:12LCI rules, you can't move it to your

1:09:14front yard if there can be information,

1:09:15Mr. Chair, about where they can, which

1:09:16might be in the form of a map. Um, which

1:09:18are where in the city they could they

1:09:20could park their commercial vehicles

1:09:21because it's certainly, Mr. Chair, that

1:09:23my constituents will say, well, where am

1:09:24I supposed to put my, you know,

1:09:26contractor's van?

1:09:28Um,

1:09:30so it sounds like, let me just make sure

1:09:32that I'm so we can do this. Yeah,

1:09:36>> if I may, I think what uh Alder Marks is

1:09:39requesting is like the FAQ for the

1:09:41regulation, you know, the fact sheet

1:09:44include both what's you can't do, what

1:09:46you can, and then where it is

1:09:48permissible.

1:09:51>> Okay.

1:09:53Um, I'm just wondering I I think maybe

1:09:56that'll be something that that we could

1:09:59send out through our newsletters.

1:10:02Um, maybe rather than burden the city to

1:10:06send because how would you send that?

1:10:07Are you going to send it out citywide?

1:10:09>> Well, by the TTMP department does have

1:10:12to charge parking lots a fee, which is

1:10:15something that you all approved in the

1:10:16budget. Thank you so much. Um, so we can

1:10:20[laughter] we can um put together a list

1:10:22of folks who have private lots where,

1:10:24you know, they may be interested in

1:10:26hosting um different vehicles. So that's

1:10:30something I'm happy to look into.

1:10:32>> Um,

1:10:34>> I'm not denying the request at all. I

1:10:36just want to make sure

1:10:37>> and it's also something that would live

1:10:38on the city's website. So when people

1:10:40are looking for information, they can

1:10:41find it.

1:10:41>> Thank you. That's what I was looking

1:10:43for. on seeing how it's going to be

1:10:45>> website information or any flyers that

1:10:46were produced for [clears throat] that

1:10:48might be posted libraries or things like

1:10:50that would include such information.

1:10:51>> Okay.

1:10:51>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:10:53>> Now, now that we're talking about this,

1:10:56um let's just quickly go where can these

1:10:58vehicles

1:11:00if we just say where they can be parked

1:11:02or every everywhere else except for the

1:11:03long walk thing. We have to figure out

1:11:05what's going on there.

1:11:06These vehicles can park in BA

1:11:11BA zones.

1:11:13>> They can park in mix currently. They can

1:11:15park in mixed use. They can park in

1:11:19commercial.

1:11:20>> Mhm. They can park in commercial. They

1:11:22can park in industrial.

1:11:24Um

1:11:26it

1:11:26>> that's it.

1:11:27>> So commercial would be give me the

1:11:29letters.

1:11:31>> BA.

1:11:32>> I am not a zoning expert. I apologize.

1:11:36I mean,

1:11:37>> those start with the letter K.

1:11:39[clears throat]

1:11:42>> Okay. So, anything with a B

1:11:44>> commercial, you know.

1:11:46>> Yeah. And then anything with an I.

1:11:48>> The B's and the eyes would would

1:11:51[laughter] uh

1:11:51>> and then this the special sauce ones

1:11:54where it's like the underlining if then,

1:11:56but or.

1:11:57>> Okay. And so areas like Whley Avenue

1:12:02will be considered VA for the most part

1:12:06that [snorts] just about that whole

1:12:07strip.

1:12:08>> These trucks will be able to park

1:12:10>> if they can find Well, it's only a small

1:12:13space.

1:12:13>> Yeah.

1:12:14>> Um which is in my ward at that 1200

1:12:18block that they will be able to park in

1:12:20these which is right after [snorts] that

1:12:21CVS going towards Ammonate.

1:12:25>> Might be a park zone. Yeah,

1:12:27>> there is a park zone there. Um,

1:12:31okay.

1:12:33>> For the rest of why that's not in your

1:12:36ward, it is heavily like commercial

1:12:39>> district. Yeah. [clears throat]

1:12:41>> And further down that turns and then

1:12:43that's that's no longer a state road as

1:12:45we get past the boulevard that now

1:12:47becomes city.

1:12:50>> Okay. Um, and I just had one question if

1:12:54>> Thank you, Mr. Anyone else that Okay,

1:12:56let me go to Alder Marian and then I'll

1:12:59and then we we'll be the last ones to

1:13:00get out for everyone. Alder Marian.

1:13:02>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr.

1:13:05Lucas, for fetching the red line to

1:13:07copy. It is very helpful. Um, it helps

1:13:10me to understand like what's changing

1:13:11and what's the same. So, I will get to a

1:13:15question and I'm just going to summarize

1:13:16what I think I found, which is that

1:13:20the size of the vehicles are essentially

1:13:22the same. length is more than 20 ft.

1:13:25Height is more than 12 feet, width is

1:13:26more than 8t, right? It seems then that

1:13:30uh you're increasing the weight to

1:13:3212,000 lb. It was previously 10,000 lb,

1:13:36right? Although note there's a scriber's

1:13:37error that we need to put the word 12

1:13:40for 4,000. Uh so that it's 12,000. Um

1:13:43but that's a scrier's issue. Um it seems

1:13:47like the 34 ton

1:13:50thing is new. I didn't find that

1:13:53anywhere

1:13:55>> previous. So my question is say more

1:13:58about why the threequarter ton vehicle

1:14:00and and

1:14:02>> trucks and SUVs are a lot bigger than

1:14:04they once were.

1:14:05>> Yeah.

1:14:06>> And those are quite often personal

1:14:08vehicles,

1:14:09>> right? So someone who has an Escalade I

1:14:12I know someone who has

1:14:15sits in the back row. Um that's probably

1:14:18more than 3/4 tons. Uh, and so this

1:14:22would say you can't park vent in these

1:14:24areas unless

1:14:29it's not being used solely by the

1:14:31occupants of the premises

1:14:33and has been prohibited by city zoning

1:14:35regulations for parking or being gared

1:14:37on private residential property. Okay.

1:14:41Okay. So that has to do with just the

1:14:42fact the cars are bigger and heavier

1:14:44than they used to. Fine. [snorts] You've

1:14:45added that the dimensional issues are

1:14:48the same. it's just popped out of a

1:14:50paragraph and bulleted. So, it's more of

1:14:53a formatting change than a substantive

1:14:55change there because those dimensions

1:14:57used to be embedded in the paragraph and

1:14:59weren't listed. So, it's harder to see

1:15:00them [clears throat] popping them out in

1:15:02the numerated list. I think probably

1:15:04makes it easier to the 3/4 tons is new.

1:15:08And then the [clears throat] list of all

1:15:09the vehicle types and that's new, but

1:15:13that wasn't in the private version.

1:15:14Okay, that's good to know that that's

1:15:16new.

1:15:18And then the section shall not apply. In

1:15:21the prior version, it was just one

1:15:22sentence saying it should not apply when

1:15:25the service is being rendered to that

1:15:27effect. You've made that much more

1:15:30detailed and clear about what examples

1:15:33of circumstances you mean by a vehicle

1:15:36be in service providing [clears throat]

1:15:38a service to some. [cough] You also

1:15:39include like public vehicles and city

1:15:41vehicles. So that section is much more

1:15:44developed than it was before, but the

1:15:46spirit is the same and the intention is

1:15:48the same, but in this version that has

1:15:51not been amended, it's not very well

1:15:53laid out. It's not specific enough. And

1:15:56so when people came in, it hampered your

1:15:58ability to explain.

1:16:00>> It did.

1:16:02>> All right. Um, thank you for that. Um,

1:16:07[clears throat] this C E

1:16:12Parking a qualified vehicle in a

1:16:13residential park or cemetery zone will

1:16:17be a the violation of commercial vehicle

1:16:20in a residential zone. Okay, this one

1:16:22has a colon, but this one does not. It

1:16:25reads better without a colon. Which is

1:16:27what the version is before us. So, this

1:16:30is just the name of the violation as it

1:16:32will appear on the ticket.

1:16:34>> That is correct.

1:16:35>> Okay, good. Let me make sure I'm clear

1:16:39on that.

1:16:44Thank you. Now I think I understand like

1:16:46what the differences are between these

1:16:48two. Thank you, Mr.

1:16:50>> Thank you.

1:16:53[cough and clears throat]

1:16:53>> Excuse me. Any other questions?

1:16:54>> I just have one more. Thank you.

1:16:58if the um commercial truck or the truck

1:17:01is identified and is repeatedly

1:17:06doing the same violation but not like

1:17:11let's say every weekend.

1:17:15Let's say this weekend and then maybe

1:17:18two weekends the following weekend. not

1:17:22not every weekend, consecutively,

1:17:26you know, it maintains the within the 72

1:17:29hours, but it's in a wrongful location

1:17:33in violation

1:17:37that takes advantage because they know

1:17:39the the period

1:17:42and continues to do it.

1:17:46>> I'm trying to um understand the

1:17:48question. I'm sorry. What is the

1:17:51question?

1:17:51>> The repeated violation

1:17:54>> but astly

1:17:56violating

1:17:58and don't pay the fee.

1:18:00>> It's not it's not a a lot. Don't pay the

1:18:03fee.

1:18:05>> So we [clears throat]

1:18:06>> they'll take the risk because they need

1:18:08a place to park.

1:18:10>> So

1:18:14something we can look at is it the MV

1:18:16hole for these repeat offenses?

1:18:19Um

1:18:21that's not something that we put in

1:18:23here. Um but that is definitely

1:18:26something that we can look at in the

1:18:29future if Mr. Chair if you are

1:18:32interested in something like that

1:18:33because that is a really good point

1:18:34which are these people who are not

1:18:36adhering to these um prohibited parking

1:18:38spots. Um so that is something we can

1:18:42definitely look into

1:18:44if

1:18:46>> you like that through the chair if

1:18:49that's possible something to consider is

1:18:52happening. [clears throat]

1:18:54Thank you Mr. Chair.

1:19:00>> Any other colleagues have any questions?

1:19:02>> I have one more certainly. Um, back to

1:19:07subsection E, parking a qualified

1:19:10vehicle in a residential park or

1:19:12cemetery zone will be the violation of

1:19:14commercial vehicle in a residential

1:19:16zone. Um,

1:19:19do the descriptions of parking

1:19:21violations change very often? Are they

1:19:23set by state law? You know, how often

1:19:26does the department decide, for example,

1:19:28we're going to change the nomenclature

1:19:29of the actual [cough] citation?

1:19:32So every year when it is budget season

1:19:36you all review and approve the names of

1:19:39um the citations. Um they have not

1:19:42changed well for in a in a long time but

1:19:45if this is something that you are

1:19:47suggesting we should look into

1:19:49>> the reason I asked this is not to

1:19:51suggest a particular change but when you

1:19:53put it in the ordinance

1:19:54>> it changes [clears throat] one place and

1:19:56>> and if you change it later then you have

1:19:58to revise the ordinance right.

1:20:00>> So like I'm wondering

1:20:02Like you could name it and then or or

1:20:05you say or is otherwise updated by the

1:20:07department or according to all

1:20:08applicable statute survey like do you

1:20:11really want to come and go do an

1:20:12ordinance amendment because you decide

1:20:14two years from now change the title of

1:20:16the [clears throat] actual violation.

1:20:17>> That's a really good point.

1:20:19>> That's it Mr.

1:20:24[snorts]

1:20:27>> Okay. Um over very small question um

1:20:32towing you haven't talked about towing

1:20:34because I mean I see fines I heard you

1:20:36mention options in the future of the DMV

1:20:39goals but

1:20:41the authority who you have the authority

1:20:42to tow

1:20:43>> I absolutely have the that's already

1:20:46established in the ordinance so um

1:20:49>> and I think that's where the

1:20:50conversation is 72 [clears throat] was

1:20:52occurring because it will abide by the

1:20:54same the other regulations consistent

1:20:57with the zone which is often 72 hours in

1:21:00the same place [snorts] would trigger

1:21:01the chapter.

1:21:02>> Thank you. So, this will dovtail into

1:21:04that telling. Is that right? Thank you

1:21:06so much.

1:21:08>> Just checking. [clears throat] Thank

1:21:09you, Mr.

1:21:10>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I want to

1:21:11follow back up on the Longworth parking.

1:21:14Um, it's being called industrial.

1:21:17Several years ago, we approved, it

1:21:20hasn't come to fruition, um, a

1:21:23development of close to 300 units of

1:21:26residential. They're not there yet. We

1:21:29We'll see if that uh comes forward. Um

1:21:33and in that case, we're also talking

1:21:36about the Longworth Corridor, the park.

1:21:39So now we have a park taking place in

1:21:42the Longworth Corridor. Um we possibly

1:21:45have near Oh my gosh. Elabiano the

1:21:49residential. So is the thought that we

1:21:54would still consider that area? we would

1:21:56absolutely consider that area because

1:21:58for the future project it would be zoned

1:22:01as a park. So therefore we would be able

1:22:03to um apply these um prohibited or these

1:22:08regulations to that area now because

1:22:11correct me if I'm wrong but that is what

1:22:13they are now going to zon it for new

1:22:15development is a park the engineering

1:22:19I'm assuming you're talking about the

1:22:20>> I'm talking about the park Mr. share if

1:22:22you don't like and the the additional

1:22:24portion would be where the fus go

1:22:28>> it might be BA mixed use that's why we

1:22:31have to go take a look at it

1:22:33>> okay thank you Mr. Chair

1:22:38>> Sure

1:22:39>> I wanted to add

1:22:41>> it adds some nuance there right because

1:22:44the area that's closer to where the food

1:22:46trucks are would probably be zoned as a

1:22:49park but then the other area

1:22:52further than that. Yeah. So, I wanted to

1:22:54just make sure I make a note of that

1:22:56that one area may be zoned for something

1:22:57else that the other may not be. So, just

1:23:00>> keeping that in mind.

1:23:02>> Thank you. Thank you.

1:23:04>> That's a strangely zoned area.

1:23:06>> It is. [laughter]

1:23:08Again, that's Mr. chair. I wanted to

1:23:10bring that to light because we approved

1:23:13the park this way and 300 units,

1:23:17[clears throat]

1:23:17>> but then there's the highway right away

1:23:19which is no man's land and not a zone.

1:23:21So, yeah, it's complicated.

1:23:23>> And [snorts] Mr. share if you don't

1:23:25mind. My my insistence on on is ensuring

1:23:29is because we again we've had concerns

1:23:32over at Kimberly that I had reported to

1:23:34my colleague and we had the police come

1:23:36regarding um elicit behavior and then we

1:23:40were having similar over in the long

1:23:43park area and residential future. So I'm

1:23:47just concerned with that. Thank you all.

1:23:49>> Thank you. Any further questions from

1:23:52committee members? Um, I'll just ask

1:23:55one. I just want to kind of get this on

1:23:57the record. Uh, so we know that we are

1:24:00having a lot of problems with these

1:24:03large trucks

1:24:05and I understand the enforcement, but

1:24:07there are going to be many that are

1:24:08going to say that 72 hours is too long.

1:24:12>> Ticket would be still be before that.

1:24:14It's the tow at 72.

1:24:16they're going to say that that's

1:24:18too long. Is that because of the ability

1:24:21for the city to get a truck out there?

1:24:25And then just to kind of add the

1:24:26questions together, um so in 27 by the

1:24:30cemetery

1:24:33[clears throat] on

1:24:34I think it is.

1:24:36>> Um trucks parked there without the

1:24:39without the truck, just the cab.

1:24:43>> [snorts]

1:24:43>> And so, uh, and sometimes there's not

1:24:46even a license plate on the cab.

1:24:47>> Mhm.

1:24:48>> And so, that's that's an issue.

1:24:51>> Yeah.

1:24:52>> Uh, and it's huge. And so, that will

1:24:56require the heavy duty tow truck to

1:24:58>> We are also looking at our tow list and

1:25:01our tow rotations. So, stay tuned for

1:25:03the future. We're trying to address it a

1:25:05different angle.

1:25:06>> Okay.

1:25:06>> Yeah.

1:25:07>> Great. But to answer your question is

1:25:09all of the above because it does take

1:25:11some time for us to coordinate getting a

1:25:13vehicle and of course this is going to

1:25:15cover the larger vehicles, the boats,

1:25:18the all the things that we have found

1:25:21parked on the street. So, it does take

1:25:23us some time to find the best um tow

1:25:26company who has the capacity to come

1:25:29pick up those large vehicles and boats

1:25:33>> and whether those tow companies will be

1:25:34in the greater New Haven area or outside

1:25:36of New Haven

1:25:38>> and where the cars will be where they'll

1:25:40be stored. I'm just wondering also just

1:25:41to kind of wrap [snorts] this up and

1:25:43then we'll go to our next item. Um

1:25:46>> do you know how much how much does the

1:25:48chief of police car weigh?

1:25:50I'll have to get back to you on that.

1:25:52Uh, we do have that information, just

1:25:54not at the tip of my tongue.

1:25:56>> Okay. I would imagine that would be

1:25:59probably as heavy or heavier than an

1:26:01Escalade. [clears throat]

1:26:03>> It is a substantially similar vehicle um

1:26:06that does have some extra features. So,

1:26:09I will I I can pull that number.

1:26:11>> Okay.

1:26:12>> The VIN tells all.

1:26:14>> Great. Um, any other questions for

1:26:17colleagues on this item before we go on

1:26:18to our next one? and then we'll have uh

1:26:21we'll open up to the public afterwards.

1:26:23Uh item two.

1:26:28[cough and clears throat]

1:26:37>> This makes it easier. We don't have to

1:26:38name our address again or get it again.

1:26:40We'll just keep rolling.

1:26:41>> Great. Um

1:26:43thank you so much for having me again.

1:26:46Um, this one is ordinance amendment to

1:26:49title 3, chapter 29. This is adding a

1:26:51new article um for the automated parking

1:26:55control systems. Um, I also want to note

1:26:58that I just printed off the clean copy.

1:27:00I did not print off the red um line, but

1:27:02I'm hoping you all may have that in your

1:27:03packets.

1:27:06If you don't, I have a copy for you. You

1:27:09have it in your packet.

1:27:12>> Yeah.

1:27:24Maybe not.

1:27:37[laughter]

1:27:41>> [clears throat]

1:27:46>> You have a a red copy or do you need the

1:27:50clean?

1:28:04>> This is the

1:28:06Wait.

1:28:09>> Oh, that's the clean copy, right?

1:28:10>> Yeah, I do. I gave you the clean.

1:28:12>> Okay. And we have the

1:28:13>> Do you have the red line?

1:28:14>> We have the red line.

1:28:15>> Okay.

1:28:18>> We have a clean copy on top. I think

1:28:26>> we have We have a clean copy.

1:28:28>> Oh, this is the recommendation.

1:28:32>> Uh,

1:28:34no, we don't have a red line.

1:28:43No, we just have a clean copy.

1:28:53Give it just one moment

1:28:56to focus.

1:29:07All right.

1:29:26This

1:29:40>> [clears throat]

1:29:44>> Yep. So, what we will do is we will have

1:29:46you continue and then

1:29:49uh we'll just have to take a moment to

1:29:51pause. Um that comes that comes over to

1:29:56us.

1:29:58Uh Rich, you [clears throat] have the

1:30:00floor.

1:30:01>> Thank you. Um good evening again. Uh

1:30:04this ordinance amendment is to title 3

1:30:08um chapter 29. Um adding a new article

1:30:12titled automated parking control

1:30:14systems. Um we are trying to stay ever

1:30:19evolving. Um we know technology is

1:30:22driving the world at this point, so we

1:30:24want to make sure we're staying um up to

1:30:26date with the times. Um so uh this

1:30:29amendment is being presented um to allow

1:30:32for clear authority for the um TTMP

1:30:35department to use automated parking

1:30:37control systems. Um it adds another

1:30:39enforcement tool for uh parking

1:30:42violations. It does not replace any

1:30:44positions. It's just another tool. Um

1:30:46and it also establishes the process for

1:30:49review, notice, payment, and appeal

1:30:51before the enforcement is finalized. Um

1:30:54so the intended park and enforcement use

1:30:57is [clears throat] to um support

1:30:58enforcement and locations where parking

1:31:00restrictions are tied directly to safety

1:31:03and access. So examples of that would be

1:31:05like near um fire hydrants or near um um

1:31:10uh the curbs where those who are who

1:31:13need ADA access are not able to um and

1:31:17that's obviously one of the examples

1:31:18that I just uh listed out there. So, the

1:31:20technology documents a potential

1:31:22violation. A review officer reviews that

1:31:25and determines whether or not there are

1:31:26reasonable grounds um to issue that

1:31:28citation. Um and um uh you know, for

1:31:33these automated parking control systems,

1:31:36the system could be fixed, it could be

1:31:38temporary, could be mobile. Um but this

1:31:40ordinance allows us to have the

1:31:42opportunity to at least um uh entertain

1:31:45the thought of automated parking

1:31:47systems. Um

1:31:50so [cough and clears throat]

1:31:52just like all of our other citations,

1:31:54these will remain subject to an appeal

1:31:56process in front of a hearing officer.

1:31:58Um the um the system must be capable of

1:32:03testing [clears throat]

1:32:04um for accuracy and reliability and

1:32:07personal um identifiable information is

1:32:10limited to authorized enforcement

1:32:12officers from our department um and is

1:32:15subject to retention and destruction

1:32:17requirements. Um when I presented this

1:32:20in front of city plan, um Alder Marshon

1:32:23did, [clears throat] excuse me, request

1:32:25that I have an example of this um

1:32:29prepared. Um so I went and did a little

1:32:32bit more digging [snorts] and the city

1:32:34of New Haven actually did a pilot of

1:32:36this um back in 2018 or 2019.

1:32:40>> Oh, you remember? Okay, great. Um so not

1:32:44saying we're using the vendor at all.

1:32:46I'm just saying that we have tested this

1:32:47out before and it's known to be a useful

1:32:50tool um where we put it near fire

1:32:53hydrants and collect the number of those

1:32:56who are violating um um the parking

1:32:59restrictions. Um

1:33:02so an example of that are the solar

1:33:05sticks uh which put devices of course

1:33:07near like hydrants or things of that

1:33:09nature. It takes a picture of the car

1:33:11that's parked there. it mails them the

1:33:14ticket um and then they have the um

1:33:16authority to appeal um that ticket um

1:33:20contest that ticket or just pay it.

1:33:23>> Um and that is it. If there are any

1:33:28questions, I also printed off a copy of

1:33:30this for the pilot that New Haven did.

1:33:34[clears throat]

1:34:02>> [laughter]

1:34:05>> Some of you may remember we heard this a

1:34:07few years ago.

1:34:10Uh

1:34:12I'll go to aler

1:34:14um our vice chair and then I'll open it

1:34:16up for the rest of the committee.

1:34:20>> Thank you. So my question about you know

1:34:23all this technology it's everything's

1:34:25moving so fast. So in doing something

1:34:28like this how does that impact um the

1:34:32resident like the resident that owns the

1:34:35car? Say my son has my car. He parks me

1:34:38a hydrant. He gets a ticket. He has my

1:34:41car again and he he gets all these

1:34:43tickets with this. Is this going to

1:34:46affect

1:34:48my affect me in some type of way? Um

1:34:52points on my license um [snorts]

1:34:57inability to register a new car, things

1:35:00of that sort. So can you tell us um a

1:35:03little bit more about this because you

1:35:05know everyone's talking about flock and

1:35:07when I look at this it puts me in the

1:35:09mind of flock more cameras um more

1:35:12animated um ways of of getting people

1:35:16but I want to understand how this um

1:35:18affects because um again young people

1:35:23you know they have their parents' cars

1:35:25and they put them in um situations and

1:35:28if my car a is attached Ed in my car B

1:35:32and C. I come out to my car B and it's

1:35:35gone or it has a boot or something like

1:35:38that because I haven't been all these

1:35:40tickets. I just need to know how is the

1:35:42resident going to be affected.

1:35:45>> Yeah. So I think the short answer to

1:35:47that is if they don't park where parking

1:35:49is prohibited, they won't receive those

1:35:51citations, right? So we wanted to be

1:35:53strategic about where we place devices

1:35:55like this, right? We want to put them in

1:35:57the places that are obviously higher

1:35:59risk. The fire department has complained

1:36:01to us a number of times about people

1:36:03parking directly in front of hydrants

1:36:05and that makes their jobs harder, right?

1:36:08So I think when it makes the the

1:36:10firefighters job harder is to provide

1:36:12direct services to people who need it,

1:36:14right? Um that becomes a larger issue

1:36:16that we need to learn how to change

1:36:18behaviors. Um so these would not be

1:36:21points on one's license. Um we do not

1:36:25currently place holds on registrations.

1:36:28We do not currently boot and or tow for

1:36:31outstanding tickets. Um that is

1:36:33something that we are willing to look at

1:36:35but that's not something that we're

1:36:36currently doing. Um and that would

1:36:39obviously be over certain um threshold.

1:36:41That wouldn't be like one or two tickets

1:36:43that they received. Um these tickets are

1:36:45issued to the registered car owner. Um

1:36:48so that would sort of follow the the

1:36:50registered car owner and not necessarily

1:36:53the driver. We wouldn't be able to

1:36:54identify who the driver was. But the

1:36:56registered car owner can transfer that

1:36:58liability um by saying I was not the one

1:37:01driving so I shouldn't pay this ticket

1:37:02and they can come in and they can

1:37:04contest that ticket. They are they have

1:37:06every right to do that just like every

1:37:07other parking [laughter] ticket. So I'm

1:37:09not certain if that answered your

1:37:10question

1:37:11>> [clears throat and snorts]

1:37:11>> um

1:37:13somewhat because I have lived experience

1:37:16of

1:37:18my kid having my car getting tickets all

1:37:22of that. I come out. I have a big boot

1:37:24on my um car and a ticket. And so when

1:37:28you say that you guys don't do that, I

1:37:32know that I had to turn around and pay

1:37:35$450

1:37:37to the guy for um non-payment of tickets

1:37:42in order to get my my car, which wasn't

1:37:45even the car that he was driving. It's

1:37:48my other car that was associated to my

1:37:51account. So when you say that it's hard

1:37:53for me to say oh okay

1:37:54[cough and clears throat]

1:37:55because it wasn't okay for me.

1:37:58>> Yeah. So we're not being aggressive

1:38:00about it. So of course that was precoid

1:38:02where we were doing a lot more

1:38:03aggressive um um parking enforcement

1:38:07around outstanding citations. We are not

1:38:09being as aggressive now for that. Um and

1:38:12of course it does follow the place

1:38:15right. Um, so what we are looking at

1:38:18currently is looking at revising the

1:38:19ordinance to sort of increase that

1:38:22threshold for outstanding parking

1:38:23tickets. And we work with residents to

1:38:26say, you know, how many outstanding

1:38:28tickets they have and if they need to

1:38:29get on a payment [snorts] plan, we send

1:38:31ample amount of notices, late notices,

1:38:33reminders that you have the citations.

1:38:36Um, so again, if the resident wants to

1:38:39come in and say they shouldn't have the

1:38:42liability, they absolutely can come in

1:38:44to our office and do that.

1:38:46>> So, are there plans to become more

1:38:48aggressive? And not to say that I want

1:38:50it because I mean again

1:38:55if everything is just attached to the

1:38:57plate and the plate is attached to the

1:38:59name and that is not the person that's

1:39:02violated but you're again in the middle

1:39:0610:00 at night you have a booth and the

1:39:09only way you can get it off if you pay

1:39:11the money. So

1:39:14what what are what are the plans for the

1:39:17city around that? Not to say that we

1:39:19should get aggressive, but it's just um

1:39:22it puts parents, [snorts]

1:39:24it puts others in um you know, difficult

1:39:27situations when we have all these

1:39:29cameras and you got the little $25

1:39:31ticket here. I don't even know how much

1:39:33these tickets you're you're looking at,

1:39:35but those add up.

1:39:39>> Yeah. So um you know right now we are

1:39:44not um moving forward [snorts] with um

1:39:48doing the booting and towing um without

1:39:51having a more comprehensive

1:39:52conversation. This is obviously

1:39:54something that you all have flagged for

1:39:55us and we've committed to working with

1:39:57you all to find a solution um that we

1:40:00all think would um be accommodating for

1:40:02all of the residents in New Haven. Um,

1:40:04so right now we are not being aggressive

1:40:07um with uh the the

1:40:10um outstanding parking ticket

1:40:12violations. You know, we'll issue

1:40:14tickets

1:40:16um and we'll um send out reminder

1:40:18notices [cough] um [clears throat] um

1:40:21for right now. That's that's as far as

1:40:22we're going, you know, more to follow in

1:40:24the conversations with um and [snorts]

1:40:28lastly shares if this or this would be

1:40:32important, right? If this is passed, um

1:40:36do these tickets um double? You know,

1:40:40like again, they're $25. Um and after 30

1:40:46days, you don't pay your,

1:40:47[clears throat] you know, does it double

1:40:49or is it just a $25 ticket, whatever the

1:40:52cost may be for the one time?

1:40:56>> Um I do not believe the tickets.

1:41:01[cough]

1:41:02Um, [clears throat]

1:41:05>> there are a number of

1:41:13[clears throat]

1:41:20trying to [clears throat] say maybe we

1:41:22need to

1:41:23um revise the ordinance to add that

1:41:26there. I think we just didn't want to

1:41:28put um a high dollar amount or a a

1:41:33particular dollar amount there and then

1:41:35have to come back to change the amount.

1:41:38Um but if you need us to make that like

1:41:41more clear what the fine is, we can do

1:41:43that.

1:41:44>> Well, well, my question was the latter

1:41:47part in the sense um does it um double?

1:41:51So [clears throat] if you time show

1:41:53penalties [cough] $250,

1:41:56but if the citation is a $25 [laughter]

1:42:00citation, that's $25 double in 30 days,

1:42:0650 days, lack of payment. So that that's

1:42:09the use that [clears throat] I'm trying.

1:42:11>> So currently, if a parking enforcement

1:42:14officer issues a citation for parking

1:42:16hydrant, fees do escalate after a

1:42:18certain amount of time, right? Um

1:42:22what the sort of nuance there is these

1:42:25would be automated. So I'm not certain

1:42:27if we would have the ability to um

1:42:31escalate those fines. So that's why I

1:42:33said I'm I'm happy to review that a

1:42:34little bit more um and if it needs to be

1:42:38further called out in this ordinance I

1:42:40can do that.

1:42:42>> Section

1:42:45>> section Hard.

1:42:49[snorts]

1:42:52Yeah, I just pointed that out to vice

1:42:54chair section H

1:42:56>> where it says at no time shall penalties

1:42:58exceed $250 or the maximum amount

1:43:01authorized by state statute or this code

1:43:04>> right and and so I maybe I'm not asking

1:43:09what I'm asking

1:43:11um is in uh 29-15H

1:43:16version we had in the packet

1:43:19says that the escalation of the fines

1:43:20may occur in the event the fines uh are

1:43:24not paid in full within 30 days

1:43:28penalty shall double and then in the

1:43:31event that the penalties assessed are

1:43:33not paid in 45 days that's when you get

1:43:36to the

1:43:38>> the 250

1:43:40>> so

1:43:42oh we don't have that I don't know what

1:43:44you're reading that's so

1:43:48session

1:43:49page 22 of your package. All

1:43:52>> page 22

1:43:54at the bottom of page 22

1:43:57H2.

1:44:11So um

1:44:15again

1:44:17[clears throat]

1:44:21though these kind of citations

1:44:23um that just come in the mail going back

1:44:26to the kid

1:44:27>> right going back to me I'm not good with

1:44:30checking my mail. So say 30 days goes by

1:44:34and I have this pile and I didn't get to

1:44:36the bottom of the pile and Um, my kid

1:44:39took my car and like and got one of

1:44:42these and now I'm put in a position to

1:44:46have to pay. I don't I didn't see you

1:44:48didn't put a number, but whatever it is,

1:44:50>> whatever that is, it'll double

1:44:52>> and and so that becomes a problem. So

1:44:55I'm sitting here as a resident and

1:44:58trying to think of every situation

1:45:02that you know can fall on a parent or

1:45:06you know a person someone else is

1:45:09utilizing a car and just this automatic

1:45:12made the thing because with the

1:45:14automated there is no feelings there's

1:45:15no consciousness there's no anything

1:45:18other than that car was there but not

1:45:21even really knowing why there there

1:45:23could have been a a very good reason. I

1:45:26don't know, someone got sick, different

1:45:28things happened. I just don't want

1:45:30people in a [clears throat] situation

1:45:32where these type of penalties, we

1:45:34approve these type of penalties and next

1:45:37thing you know, people are getting all

1:45:38these tickets. They might not know about

1:45:41it, they're and if they do, they're

1:45:43doubling, they're tripling, they're

1:45:45going up to $250

1:45:47and they had no clue.

1:45:50So that's just something I think that um

1:45:54we need to look at because the goal is

1:45:56to change the behavior not to make money

1:46:00and the first thing that residents are

1:46:02going to well maybe it is to make money

1:46:04I don't know but the first thing

1:46:06residents are going to say here the city

1:46:08go again just trying to make money with

1:46:10people they don't care so I'm just going

1:46:14by what I hear in the community.

1:46:16>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a a

1:46:17really good point. And also, I think

1:46:21it's more important that we remind folks

1:46:24that parking in front of a fire hydrant

1:46:26or parking in a handicap designated

1:46:29space is never okay, right? So, I think

1:46:32we we kind of have to balance the two

1:46:34priorities. Um, and I guess for us in

1:46:37TTMP, that's where the um challenge

1:46:40comes in is we don't want to make money

1:46:42off of people and not practicing healthy

1:46:45behaviors. And also we have to do

1:46:47something to remind them that these

1:46:49things have serious consequences, right?

1:46:51Um so um you know back to your question

1:46:56about um fines being escalated, if

1:46:59someone finds it a year later and they

1:47:01didn't pay it, if they come into our

1:47:02office, we absolutely will like wave

1:47:05that that fine. We do it all the time.

1:47:07Um parents come in and say they didn't

1:47:09know they have it and we reduce that

1:47:11fine. like we absolutely work with

1:47:13residents or you know people who are not

1:47:15residents um on reducing the fee or

1:47:18whatever they can pay um finding

1:47:20different ways to accommodate them.

1:47:22>> Is that

1:47:24what you just said?

1:47:26>> Um

1:47:30that is not clearly listed in here. Um

1:47:34but

1:47:35>> yes, not written. It wasn't said.

1:47:39>> So

1:47:41what is written is that they have the

1:47:43right to appeal, right? And that can

1:47:46look like them going online to appeal or

1:47:49them coming in the office to appeal.

1:47:51Either way that is written that they

1:47:53have the right to appeal. So if they

1:47:55come in and appeal, the fee has doubled.

1:47:58I mean, we have that authority or I have

1:48:00that authority to wave that fee being

1:48:03doubled or they can wait to be heard in

1:48:06front of the hearing officer to see what

1:48:07the hearing officer says.

1:48:11>> So, I I know that's a general statement

1:48:14and so it might

1:48:16get get a little closer because you're

1:48:19going to have a lot of problems. I'm

1:48:20tell this is something that has there's

1:48:23going to be a lot of problems, a lot of

1:48:25push back.

1:48:28So, I don't know if I need to ask you

1:48:30something

1:48:32um

1:48:34in regards to what I just um stated. So,

1:48:38but I don't read anything back. I was

1:48:40just giving.

1:48:43No, I think if we needed to make any

1:48:45kind of amendments that discussion

1:48:51thank you Mr. Chair

1:48:53>> any old director.

1:48:55>> Thank you Mr. Chair.

1:48:58Thank you for the this information. um

1:49:02before this comes um

1:49:07becomes live there is going to be an

1:49:10education portion [snorts] piece but I'm

1:49:13as far as the public knowing this is

1:49:16coming down the pipeline um in regards

1:49:19to this um I think that I'm I'm taking

1:49:22this absolutely you know we're all

1:49:24concerned about getting tickets for

1:49:26getting to open the mail and things like

1:49:28that um but Most recently, here I go

1:49:31again about Howard Avenue and the hill.

1:49:33We have two individuals that um

1:49:36repeatedly park

1:49:40both cars and the hydrant is in the

1:49:43middle and the you know recently our our

1:49:46fire um department had an incident. So,

1:49:49we're trying to educate those folks.

1:49:51They're not being responsive. So,

1:49:55in the fire department's defense, we're

1:49:57trying to fight a fire. Now, they're

1:49:59going to have to break those car windows

1:50:01in order to get through those fire

1:50:02hydrants, but the residents are not

1:50:04following protocols. So, what I'm asking

1:50:07for, or is there a plan, you know, put

1:50:10it on the New Haven Independent, have

1:50:12have the news um all three news feeds

1:50:17educating folks? This is what you know,

1:50:20this is for a safety matter.

1:50:22>> Absolutely. Um so, we would absolutely

1:50:24do that. Um I just want to reemphasize

1:50:26though is that this ordinance amendment

1:50:28or this addition to the amendment is to

1:50:30allow us to even be able to use um

1:50:33systems like that. We have not solicited

1:50:36for anything. We have not done it. Well,

1:50:38I have not since I've occupied this

1:50:39space. The city has done a pilot in the

1:50:42past. Um but this ordinance amendment

1:50:45would allow us to or give us the ability

1:50:48um to um um solicit for different

1:50:51vendors to do these automated parking

1:50:53spaces. So, the short answer to your

1:50:55question is yes, we would do the public

1:50:56education component. Um, but we're not

1:50:58clear yet because we don't have any um

1:51:01um regulations that allow us to do it

1:51:04currently.

1:51:05>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:51:08>> Any other questions? all the doodle.

1:51:11>> I think my question might be clarified

1:51:14by what you just responded to Alder

1:51:15Rodriguez because we maybe don't have a

1:51:18specific process outlined yet, but I

1:51:21know it's really important to people

1:51:23that like an actual human is verifying

1:51:26their process before they get a fine.

1:51:29Can you speak to that? I know it's

1:51:30mentioned in the whereas and maybe it's

1:51:32in the larger section with within our

1:51:35packet, but yeah, thank you. So for any

1:51:38of the automated um programs in which we

1:51:40have rolled out, we don't just allow a

1:51:42computer to say this is a violation and

1:51:44just send out a ticket. We have staff

1:51:48that review it to ensure it is a true

1:51:50violation that it actually occurred that

1:51:52the you know the person who parked there

1:51:55is actually in violation before a ticket

1:51:58is mailed. Um, and we did add that to

1:52:02this ordinance amendment that says that

1:52:04we would be reviewing it before um, we

1:52:07issue a citation. Um,

1:52:10>> that's perfect. Yeah. And so assuming

1:52:14this moves forward at some point you

1:52:16expect we'll strike a contract with

1:52:20a specific company to carry this out.

1:52:23>> That is correct. In the event this is um

1:52:26passed um and we are allowed to change

1:52:29the ordinance to allow us to do that, we

1:52:31would then put out um a solicitation um

1:52:35for different vendors to offer um

1:52:37services like the safety stick. Um and

1:52:40then um you know we would obviously have

1:52:42to review packages [cough] and make sure

1:52:44anyone who we would be interested in

1:52:46entering into a contract with um meets

1:52:48all of the city's um guidelines

1:52:52and standards.

1:52:56Okay. I guess I just want to hear

1:52:59directly from you because I know that so

1:53:01many residents are concerned about

1:53:03monitoring and cameras right now. Why do

1:53:05you think this is so important and why

1:53:08should people feel safe with a change

1:53:10like this coming to the city?

1:53:12>> Um, so I think it's important. I I don't

1:53:15want to keep belaboring the point of

1:53:17people parking at fire hydrants, but it

1:53:20has become a problem. Parking is already

1:53:23constrained within the city. So I

1:53:25understand people wanting to makeshift

1:53:27different parking spaces, but we've have

1:53:29people who are in wheelchairs. We have

1:53:31people who cannot see and they really

1:53:33are relying on some of these curbs and

1:53:36some of these mechanisms that are there

1:53:37at the corners um to be able to access

1:53:42safe streets. Right. So, I feel

1:53:44confident that if we um um are fortunate

1:53:48enough to be able to utilize some of

1:53:51these automated parking enforcement

1:53:52systems, it would really allow for there

1:53:54to be a change in behaviors by way of

1:53:56ticketing people um for um for some of

1:54:00these unhealthy uh behaviors that they

1:54:02currently have.

1:54:03>> That makes sense.

1:54:05Correct me if I'm wrong. There's nothing

1:54:07in the ordinance that says that these

1:54:10automated cameras can only be at

1:54:14fire hydrants and

1:54:16>> like they could be anywhere on a

1:54:17sidewalk. You're just suggesting that

1:54:20they will be at fire hydrants because

1:54:21that's the most

1:54:22>> We are suggesting that they would be in

1:54:24very strategic locations primarily fire

1:54:27hydrants because those have been big

1:54:28issues.

1:54:29>> That totally makes sense.

1:54:30>> Curb cuts,

1:54:31>> I guess.

1:54:33Did you consider including that in the

1:54:36ordinance language to say that these

1:54:38cameras can only be at fire hydrants and

1:54:41curb cuts?

1:54:42>> I did not consider that. Okay.

1:54:46>> Um is to clearly state that.

1:54:48>> Um

1:54:50>> it just came into my mind. I'm not sure.

1:54:52I think I want to I guess if you have

1:54:55any response I'm curious to hear. I just

1:54:56know like I don't know. I know that

1:54:59people are

1:55:01scared about cameras and I'm just

1:55:03imagining the world in which there's one

1:55:05of these everywhere and that's how all

1:55:09traffic in track traffic enforcement is

1:55:11done for the city. Um, and I haven't

1:55:13fully developed like how I how do I feel

1:55:16about that. Um, but

1:55:20just wanted to put it out there that

1:55:22maybe more constraints would make more

1:55:23people feel comfortable.

1:55:25>> Yeah, thank you so much. Um I think this

1:55:28is it seems like a

1:55:33good

1:55:35you have further questions.

1:55:36>> No I'm good. I'll talk about discussion.

1:55:38Thank you so much director.

1:55:40>> Uh I will go to all the marks then alas.

1:55:46>> Thank you Mr. Chair. Um thank you for

1:55:48this. I actually [clears throat] feel

1:55:50that it seems fantastic. I don't feel

1:55:52any need for any limitation on

1:55:54locations. We'll discuss that

1:55:55discussion. Um to zone in on I think a

1:55:58question related to um what my colleague

1:56:01um Alder Theater was talking about. I

1:56:03think the issue of concern is privacy

1:56:06and the issue of concern I think is in

1:56:08section N like to call your attention to

1:56:10that which is disclosure of personally

1:56:12identifiable information. And I wanted

1:56:14to speak to you about how um you think

1:56:17it might be possible to um perhaps even

1:56:20tweak that section to address the

1:56:22privacy concern. [clears throat] Um, if

1:56:24I understand correctly, what I'm hearing

1:56:26to be a major concern is as AI advances,

1:56:30sort of what these cameras might be able

1:56:31to do, um, will be changing literally

1:56:33day-to-day. Um, you know, if we look at

1:56:36the pictures in the packet, um, it gives

1:56:39pretty innocuous pictures which just

1:56:41sort of show the back of a car or a

1:56:43license plate. Um, but one could have a

1:56:45front picture, right, which would then

1:56:47have a person which through AI could be

1:56:50personally identifiable. Um, which goes

1:56:52to all kinds of privacy concerns. Um,

1:56:54I'm wondering how you would feel about

1:56:57if this were changed such that I think

1:56:59the only thing needed to be captured by

1:57:01these cameras is the license plate.

1:57:02>> That's correct.

1:57:03>> That's it. Right. Um, and perhaps um

1:57:06some identifiable piece of the car that

1:57:09shows its location, you know, like a

1:57:10bumper in relation to a curve, you know,

1:57:12the kind of thing. And I wonder what you

1:57:14would think if um in if if it was

1:57:18limited to the cameras capturing only

1:57:20only license plate um that's all they

1:57:23really need and then the license plate I

1:57:25assume allows you to identify the owner

1:57:27which is the only thing that matters not

1:57:30driving the car. What would you think

1:57:31about that?

1:57:32>> Um I would be in full agreement with

1:57:35that. The only nuance to that is um a

1:57:39lot of people contest their citation by

1:57:42way of saying the car that is described

1:57:45on this ticket is not the car that's in

1:57:47that image.

1:57:49>> Um so we want to be able to capture some

1:57:53sort of characteristics of the car as

1:57:55well as the license plate. So if it's

1:57:58just a matter of the bumper and you can

1:57:59see the color of the car, you can see

1:58:01the make of the car and the license

1:58:03plate. But I don't want to constrain it

1:58:05to only the license plate because people

1:58:08steal plates, right? And they can put a

1:58:11fake plate on a car that's not actually

1:58:13the car that the plate is registered to.

1:58:15>> But we might, if I may ask the question,

1:58:17I I think the language I'm wondering

1:58:19about your uses no personally

1:58:21identifiable information. At this point,

1:58:23it is allowing personally identifiable

1:58:25information to be held for some time.

1:58:27Correct. Um, disclosed and stored. And I

1:58:29wonder if we can just limit in some way

1:58:32um

1:58:34you know what what [snorts] can be held

1:58:37in stores that didn't include things

1:58:38like you know faces or people. Um I

1:58:41wonder if there's a way to to write this

1:58:43regarding the license plate and

1:58:45characteristics of the car only. Um

1:58:47might that be possible? Okay.

1:58:50>> And the other question I was going to

1:58:51ask if I may, um, to the extent to which

1:58:54we are getting personally identifiable

1:58:56information, which is perhaps somebody's

1:58:59face, who they're with, you know, things

1:59:01like that. Um, serious concern regarding

1:59:05sharing of information with the federal

1:59:07government, with ICE, you know, we don't

1:59:09have any penalties in here. If any of

1:59:12the information were shared, it just

1:59:14says it can't be shared. might there be

1:59:16an opportunity for

1:59:19the extent to which you are capturing

1:59:21people um more teeth in the regulation

1:59:25of TTMP employees or who are press

1:59:28access to the information. So although

1:59:30that that's something that we can

1:59:31certainly discuss in um in our

1:59:34deliberations

1:59:35um and you have any kind of amendment

1:59:39that you would like to make certainly

1:59:41>> I guess I was just wondering if and in

1:59:43her thoughts if you've thought thought

1:59:44about this and have ideas how that could

1:59:45be structured.

1:59:46>> We think about all of that in any of our

1:59:48contracts we make sure we add that they

1:59:51are not authorized to share any of our

1:59:53the property is ours we would just be

1:59:55renting their equipment. Um the city is

1:59:58very firm in their policies on data

2:00:01sharing. Um so that wouldn't necessarily

2:00:05go in the ordinance, but it goes in all

2:00:07of the contracts um through and through

2:00:09with whomever the vendor is. Like that's

2:00:12part of our standard contract.

2:00:14>> If I may, just one more question. Um I

2:00:16just don't know if you've heard these um

2:00:19uh these stories that get presented

2:00:21around the country of the rogue police

2:00:23officer um who you know uses the AI

2:00:26technology and some of these cameras to

2:00:28you know track and you know an abusive

2:00:30relationship or something like that. So

2:00:32just wondering your thoughts on you know

2:00:34how you make sure that

2:00:36the rule is actually followed by the

2:00:38employees.

2:00:45So, what I'm I'm hearing things. One is

2:00:49putting some sort of parameters or

2:00:51disciplinary action within the ordinance

2:00:54if an employee abuses the privilege that

2:00:56they have to review this footage is what

2:00:58I'm hearing.

2:00:58>> There's definitely a question we would

2:01:00think about doing that.

2:01:01>> Okay. Yeah, that is something we can

2:01:04definitely

2:01:10>> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for

2:01:11interesting. Thank you, director.

2:01:15Marsh and then we'll go to Alder

2:01:17Rodriguez.

2:01:19>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for

2:01:21your presentation. Director Simpson, um

2:01:24I'm going to piggyback briefly off of uh

2:01:26Alder Xenodor's question concern about

2:01:31the

2:01:33the your presentation about the targeted

2:01:35the intention versus the language of the

2:01:38ordinance, which doesn't target at all.

2:01:41It just makes it possible. Mhm.

2:01:43>> Um, and so I'm wondering if you would be

2:01:47amanable to a whereas clause

2:01:50of the resolution that states the

2:01:52intention is to implement these in areas

2:01:56where safety issues are high priority.

2:02:02>> Would you be immunable?

2:02:03>> Absolutely. My other question is would

2:02:05you be immunable to a whereas clause

2:02:08where the department commits to make

2:02:11regular reports to the board of all

2:02:12about the usage of these cameras and the

2:02:15implementation of the program?

2:02:17>> Yes. Um we

2:02:20>> I know you would do it anyway.

2:02:21>> Yeah. Like we report that like monthly

2:02:23to the um traffic authority like some of

2:02:25our findings and how many um citations

2:02:28we would issue by way of these automated

2:02:29programs. But yes, it would that be an

2:02:32annual thing or

2:02:34>> that would that would be would discuss

2:02:36deliberations. I'm just wondering if

2:02:37you're leanable to that kind of commit.

2:02:40>> Thank you very much, Madam Director.

2:02:42Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:02:44>> Any other questions from committee

2:02:47Rodriguez?

2:02:48>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:02:50>> Okay.

2:02:55>> [cough and clears throat]

2:02:59>> I'm just interest um I'm interested in

2:03:01knowing you indicated that [snorts]

2:03:03there was a pilot that was done and we

2:03:05are aware of that pilot. Did you see any

2:03:09areas where you would be placing and you

2:03:13don't have to tell me the areas but

2:03:14about how many of them would you say

2:03:17that you've identified would benefit

2:03:21from this next step

2:03:25in in enforcement?

2:03:27>> How many sticks and how many areas

2:03:28>> about how many areas have you

2:03:30identified?

2:03:32So, if you go to page um [clears throat]

2:03:37two of the safety stick, um [laughter]

2:03:40some of the results that they found

2:03:41there, I think they placed some of these

2:03:44um [cough and clears throat] some of

2:03:45these safety sticks in areas such as

2:03:47Chapel Street, Howard Avenue, and Grand

2:03:49Avenue. I think they also placed um some

2:03:52over on Longmore. Um so, some of those

2:03:54metrics are already there from their

2:03:56pilot back in 2018, 2019. Um, so I guess

2:04:02um we would take a look at where we are

2:04:04finding um a lot more uh citations being

2:04:09issued for folks parking at like let's

2:04:11say fire hydrants because we're adding

2:04:13um a clause into this. Um we would take

2:04:16a look at that. We would also have to

2:04:18work really closely with the fire

2:04:19department because they also issue

2:04:21tickets for folks parking at um the fire

2:04:23hydrants and see which areas are hot

2:04:25spots um for some of these violations.

2:04:29For example, I know that there's been a

2:04:31lot of complaints

2:04:33uh where I have a Redfield and Columbus

2:04:36Avenue and Cornell Scott, our important

2:04:40center is located where there's issues

2:04:43of parking because people are parking

2:04:45like right on the corner.

2:04:47>> Yeah. [clears throat]

2:04:47>> Would that be a significant

2:04:50uh place to hold one?

2:04:52>> So, we would have to take a look at

2:04:53that, right? because I think we want to

2:04:55substantiate that with some of our data

2:04:57which is how many citations have we

2:04:59issued in that particular area and what

2:05:02type of citations have we issued. We

2:05:04want to make sure we are using data that

2:05:06supports the placement of these um

2:05:09devices um if this um um ordinance

2:05:14amendment is passed. Um so we we haven't

2:05:18gotten to the point where we decided

2:05:19where we're placing it. We are just at

2:05:20the point where we are trying to have

2:05:23the ability to even entertain a

2:05:25conversation about these sort of

2:05:27devices.

2:05:28>> Okay. And lastly,

2:05:31um page of your of your ordinance

2:05:36um title three chapter 29 on page three

2:05:42where it talks about the intended

2:05:44parking enforcement

2:05:46bullet. The bullet core systems may be

2:05:50fixed, temporary or mobile depending on

2:05:54the location and enforcement needs. Who

2:05:58would be making that decision?

2:06:01>> So that would be TTMP because it would

2:06:04be a program ran out of TTMP's

2:06:06department.

2:06:09>> Okay. I'm sorry. Can you tell me? I

2:06:12understand the acronym, but can you tell

2:06:15me who would be making [clears throat]

2:06:16that decision?

2:06:18>> So that would be me as the department

2:06:20head of TTMP.

2:06:24>> Traffic transportation and parking.

2:06:26>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes.

2:06:28>> I'm sorry.

2:06:32>> Thank you.

2:06:36>> Anything else?

2:06:38>> Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:06:40>> Great. Um,

2:06:43any other questions from committee on

2:06:44this item? I think what we'll do,

2:06:46director,

2:06:47um, which I think will make sense is

2:06:50should this go forward.

2:06:53Um, what do you think? I think we'll

2:06:55just ask you to come back.

2:06:57>> Yeah.

2:06:57>> With the areas that these sticks would

2:07:01go into.

2:07:03Um and then we'll just maybe maybe we'll

2:07:05make an amendment to that um to actually

2:07:08prove [clears throat] the areas that

2:07:10these sticks will be.

2:07:12>> Can I just ask a question? So

2:07:15>> we wouldn't know where the areas would

2:07:17be yet, right? Because we haven't even

2:07:19entertained the conversation. So we

2:07:20would need for this ordinance amendment

2:07:23to be approved and passed for us to even

2:07:26entertain the idea of where we would

2:07:28place these devices. So that would that

2:07:30we would have to come back to you to

2:07:33even like go Yeah.

2:07:35>> You will present to us the the streets

2:07:38or areas will be approved.

2:07:39>> Exactly.

2:07:41>> Committee or may go to public safety. I

2:07:43I don't know.

2:07:45>> But maybe that's something that we would

2:07:46consider

2:07:48>> um uh moving forward.

2:07:52Yep.

2:07:53Um so be upon approval of this ordinance

2:07:57TTP will return with a list of the

2:07:59streets.

2:08:00>> Absolutely.

2:08:01>> Um where these

2:08:02>> these sticks would be uh placed for

2:08:05further approval.

2:08:07>> Um

2:08:09if that sounds good to you because

2:08:11there's also deliberation.

2:08:12>> Yeah.

2:08:13>> We can't have that discussion with you

2:08:14then.

2:08:16Uh okay. Is everyone good? Okay. Uh this

2:08:20what I would like to do. We have one

2:08:22more item.

2:08:24Uh, you think it's going to be long?

2:08:26Okay, we'll do that item. We'll do our

2:08:30public hearing. Fortunately, any wants

2:08:32to testify and then we're going to take

2:08:34a five minute. Um,

2:08:37yeah, we just need to clear our heads

2:08:39for five minutes and then we'll come

2:08:40back. Great. Um, if we're all clear with

2:08:44questions, we'll go to our third item.

2:08:47>> Thank you. Thank you.

2:08:50>> Thank you.

2:09:02Thank you.

2:09:05>> Okay, we got some handouts and we just

2:09:07need to address this record.

2:09:12>> Rebecca Ber, administrative officer, 122

2:09:15Western Avenue.

2:09:19Brian McDerman, police patrol commander,

2:09:211 Union Avenue.

2:09:23>> Shirley Quang, 937 Elm Street, 424, also

2:09:26serving as

2:09:28also.

2:09:31>> Yes. And thank you and my apologies. I

2:09:34thought that was Alder Kim there and she

2:09:36did wave and um sorry I didn't recognize

2:09:39you all earlier alter, but thank you for

2:09:41being here this evening.

2:09:43and Joseph Murley, assistant corporation

2:09:46council, city of Rene.

2:09:49>> Great. I think we're all here.

2:09:50>> Uh yes, thank you for hearing this item

2:09:54uh this evening. Um some of this is

2:09:57going to be redundant since we came to

2:09:59visit you this summer on the first half

2:10:01of our efforts at regulating juice bars.

2:10:04So, I'll go through those things quickly

2:10:06um because I believe all of you were

2:10:08here for that meeting. Um

2:10:11>> just one moment. Um,

2:10:13>> okay.

2:10:14>> Alder, you've occupied every position in

2:10:17the city.

2:10:18>> Never Alder

2:10:18>> except Alder.

2:10:20>> But what I'm going to do as a courtesy

2:10:22is I'm going to ask Alder Kim if she

2:10:24would join us at the table uh for this

2:10:27item. This is something that her and

2:10:29Alder Theodore have worked with the city

2:10:31with.

2:10:33>> Um, and so actually come on come on the

2:10:36older side.

2:10:37>> Okay.

2:10:37>> Yep.

2:10:39And then uh if you have any questions of

2:10:43course for staff as we're going through

2:10:45this

2:10:47you'll be able to ask

2:10:48>> apologize in advance. I did the flipping

2:10:50on the wrong side for this so if it's

2:10:53hard to turn I apologize.

2:10:55>> You did this to make older Marshan mad.

2:10:57I know [laughter]

2:10:58>> I picked the wrong one. Um so again um

2:11:03juice bars have documented a significant

2:11:05public safety concerns um tied to them

2:11:08the negative impacts to the neighborhood

2:11:10including residents and adjacent

2:11:11businesses. Um this August uh you passed

2:11:15the zoning amendment prohibiting juice

2:11:18bars as an accessory use in the city

2:11:20zoning ordinance. So basically it

2:11:23prohibits the creation of any new uh

2:11:28bars that act as juice bars. So one of

2:11:30the things that a uh liquor applicant

2:11:33does um as part of their liquor permit

2:11:36process is get a zoning sign off. So by

2:11:38passing that update this summer, you

2:11:40close the door to future establishments.

2:11:43What we're here to uh tonight is to act

2:11:46upon uh what we do with the existing

2:11:50juice bars because zoning can't go

2:11:52backwards. It can only go forwards. Um

2:11:55and Shirley worked hard with the

2:11:56delegation to give us enabling

2:11:58legislation from the state to further

2:12:00regulate those existing locations. Um

2:12:03we've already gone through with you what

2:12:05a juice bar is, so I don't need to

2:12:06concern you with that. Um, this is all

2:12:09the same information on the impacts of

2:12:11juice bars from the last time on page

2:12:13three. So, unless there's questions,

2:12:15we'll skip that. Um,

2:12:18uh, so that moves to um the prior

2:12:22actions again. Um a lot of our active

2:12:26residents um and their alders have been

2:12:28working on um remmonstrance hearings

2:12:32which is a way uh citizens can work with

2:12:35the department of consumer prote

2:12:37consumer protection to regulate existing

2:12:39bars. Um remage which is one of our bad

2:12:42actor juice bars um has since uh given

2:12:45up their liquor license as a result of

2:12:48said process. Uh there are two more uh

2:12:50bad actor uh bars that are in

2:12:53remmonstrance proceedings currently. One

2:12:55is in deliberations and one is scheduled

2:12:57to be heard in October.

2:12:58>> Reopened.

2:13:02>> All right. Um, and then August, uh,

2:13:05zoning. Uh, you did the zoning, closing

2:13:08the door to future establishments. And,

2:13:10uh, now we're here to address the

2:13:13existing establishments, uh, that have

2:13:17cafe licenses, which is what qualifies

2:13:19people to act as a juice bar. So, with

2:13:22that, Sure. Um, so I just want to talk

2:13:25us through, uh, what, uh, was passed in

2:13:27state legislation. So, um, this past

2:13:30session in public act 26100 and section

2:13:3362 of that, which becomes effective

2:13:36tomorrow, there were six different

2:13:38changes in that state statute. So, I

2:13:41just want to walk us through um, that's

2:13:42page 10, the six different changes that

2:13:44then allow us to translate that into

2:13:46local law as well. So, the first change

2:13:49is across the board, statewide, juice

2:13:51[clears throat] bars now need to have a

2:13:52capacity limit of 10% of the total

2:13:54building occupant load. So that means

2:13:57that there can't be as many, you know,

2:13:59um, as many individuals that attend that

2:14:01juice bar event, which is helpful

2:14:04because, you know, we've seen like large

2:14:06scale events with too many people with

2:14:08too many kids really. Um, and so this

2:14:10puts a capacity limit for all juice bars

2:14:13across the state. The second change is

2:14:15this is a local option. So by local

2:14:17ordinance, municipalities can choose to

2:14:19limit the hours of operation of any

2:14:21juice bar in their municipality. The

2:14:24third is also a local option.

2:14:26Municipalities can now prohibit the

2:14:28operation of GPS bars in their

2:14:30municipality. Um the fourth change is

2:14:33that now a chief law enforcement officer

2:14:36has the discretion to reject or

2:14:38terminate an event. So what that means

2:14:40is that if the chief law enforcement

2:14:43officer prior to when the event has

2:14:45happened, they have to notify the PD

2:14:47that the event is taking place. If the

2:14:49chief of police or their designate

2:14:51decides that they don't have enough

2:14:52public safety personnel, they're not

2:14:54hiring, you know, enough, you know,

2:14:56public safety personnel to watch out for

2:14:58the safety of that event, then the PD

2:15:00can decide to turn to reject that event.

2:15:03And then secondly, if during that event

2:15:05is happening, if the chief of police or

2:15:08their designate decide that this event

2:15:10is getting out of hand, they also have

2:15:12the discretion to terminate that event.

2:15:14So that is across the board statewide.

2:15:17And then fifth by local option as well,

2:15:20municipalities can decide to prohibit

2:15:22the sale of alcohol during juice bar

2:15:24operations. So if an establishment

2:15:26allows you know underage individuals, um

2:15:29the municipality can decide that nowhere

2:15:31in their establishment can they you know

2:15:33sell any alcohol. And then the last

2:15:35change that was made is that the uh

2:15:37state department of consumer protection

2:15:39may investigate any violations of any

2:15:42parts of this statute. And so here I

2:15:44just want to give, you know, a quick

2:15:45thank you to everyone who helped move

2:15:47this across a state level, our state

2:15:49delegation, Representative The Lillo,

2:15:51but also so many alders who testified

2:15:53virtually. I think Alder Kim testified

2:15:55from like halfway across the world at

2:15:57like 3:00 a.m. in the morning at a

2:15:58family vacation. A lot of alders, Alder

2:16:00Theodore, Alder Carmen Rodriguez

2:16:02submitted written testimony. And so all

2:16:04of that really helped get this across

2:16:06the finish line, which now means that we

2:16:08have these more tools locally to address

2:16:11these problems. Um, and so next, now

2:16:15that these six changes have happened on

2:16:17a state level, it gives us options

2:16:20locally to decide how we want to

2:16:21regulate juice bars. So those are the

2:16:24proposed ordinance amendments. Um, so I

2:16:26just want to walk us through those

2:16:28changes. So the first proposal um this

2:16:32is on page 12 that we have to our

2:16:34current existing ordinance is now um

2:16:38duear events will only be allowed if an

2:16:42establishment takes out a special or

2:16:44applies for a special event permit and

2:16:46now we want to put in eligibility

2:16:48requirements. So those eligibility

2:16:49requirements are number one, you have

2:16:52had to held that permit for more than 10

2:16:55years at that location, meaning that you

2:16:57are an actor with history that we know

2:16:59of in that location. The second is that

2:17:02you have to have no violations of this

2:17:05ordinance or the Connecticut Liquor

2:17:07Control Act within two years prior to

2:17:09the permit application. Basically

2:17:11meaning that you are a good actor with a

2:17:13history of compliance. And then the

2:17:15third is that you have no outstanding

2:17:17debt to the city including fines, fees,

2:17:20taxes, and bills for city services

2:17:22related to these permits. So part of

2:17:24existing ordinance is that the PD can

2:17:27designate one law enforcement officer to

2:17:29be build to the establishment to look

2:17:32out for public safety during the event

2:17:34and the establishment has to pay for

2:17:36that. But we obviously want these

2:17:39establishments to pay for that police

2:17:41and if they don't, they wouldn't be in

2:17:42compliance. they wouldn't be allowed a

2:17:44new permit.

2:17:46And so then the other changes, these are

2:17:49all, you know, smaller changes that

2:17:51basically just allow that just align our

2:17:54current statute um or our current

2:17:56ordinance, sorry, with what is existing

2:17:58in state statute language. So the first

2:18:01of these um number two basically aligns

2:18:04our notice requirements with state

2:18:06statute. So currently in our existing

2:18:09ordinance, it says that any

2:18:10establishment has to give us 48 hours

2:18:12prior notice to a juice bar event. And

2:18:15so we want to align this with state

2:18:16statute which says 5 days. And we think

2:18:18that the five days will give for example

2:18:20the PD, public works more time to plan

2:18:23if it's a large scale event. The second

2:18:26is that currently our language only

2:18:29allows us to have one law enforcement

2:18:31officer to be build to the establishment

2:18:33when a GSAR event happens. We just want

2:18:35to change the language to clarify that

2:18:37the state says it's one or more law

2:18:39enforcement officers that can't be built

2:18:41to the establishment. And also um we

2:18:45want to we want to put the state statute

2:18:47language into our local ordinance which

2:18:48says that the chief law enforcement

2:18:50officer has the ability to decide if an

2:18:52event has gotten out of hand and

2:18:54terminate that event or if prior to the

2:18:57event they know that that you know that

2:18:59actor will not hire enough security

2:19:01personnel and they can reject that event

2:19:02beforehand. The third on this um on this

2:19:06slide is that it aligns penalties with

2:19:09state statute. So currently in our

2:19:11existing ordinance, the penalty is set

2:19:13at $250 or it also has language that

2:19:17says, you know, the maximum allowable by

2:19:18the state. Um but obviously 250 is kind

2:19:21of a drop in the bucket for some of

2:19:22these establishments for even one night

2:19:25of these events. And so state statute

2:19:28allows for penalties at 2500 for the

2:19:31first offense, 5,000 for the second, and

2:19:3310,000 for third or subsequent. We think

2:19:36that's a much better, you know, barrier

2:19:38um to these establishments and, you

2:19:41know, it's more of incentive for them to

2:19:42comply.

2:19:44And then the last is we just changed the

2:19:46appeals language to align that process

2:19:49with um the current citywide appeals

2:19:51process in chapter 32 of the code of

2:19:54ordinances.

2:19:56And so all of these five changes are

2:19:58just kind of put together on a graphic

2:20:00on the next page. Um and again there the

2:20:03changes are creating a special event

2:20:05permit with eligibility requirements,

2:20:08aligning the prior notice to five days,

2:20:11um aligning what the police chief can

2:20:14do, aligning those penalties, and

2:20:17aligning the appeals process. And so

2:20:19what this the result will be is that all

2:20:21of juice events unless they are a

2:20:24special event permit holder who has a

2:20:27history of compliance with both our

2:20:29local ordinance and state lifer aka

2:20:31they're not you know serving to minors.

2:20:34Um they will be allowed that special

2:20:36event permit. Um and then it also aligns

2:20:39these other measures with what's

2:20:40currently existing in state statute. Um

2:20:42and so then I just want to turn it over

2:20:44to Becky to kind of walk through what

2:20:46this would actually look like. So, how

2:20:48it works, um, through the special event

2:20:50process, we'll collect, uh, important

2:20:52information to help the police

2:20:54department, um, and our office determine

2:20:57if the event is suitable to, uh, move

2:21:00forward. So, basically, are they

2:21:03eligible to apply? Um, are one, are they

2:21:06an establishment that was grandfathered

2:21:08through your zoning update? So, we have

2:21:10a current list of all of the cafe. If

2:21:12they're not on that list, they're not

2:21:14eligible. Um, are they in good standing?

2:21:16Do they have any recent violations of

2:21:19our local ordinances? We have a number

2:21:21of actors who right now have recent

2:21:24violations of the juice bar ordinance.

2:21:26So, they would not be eligible under

2:21:28this ordinance. If they have any um

2:21:31outstanding violations with state liquor

2:21:33control within the last two years,

2:21:35that's public information. We can check

2:21:37to make sure that they are in good

2:21:39standing on their liquor permit. they

2:21:40haven't been caught serving to minors or

2:21:42overs serving or, you know, in any way

2:21:46or not in good standing in that regard.

2:21:48Um, do we have police capacity? If

2:21:50you're coming in for a juice bar on

2:21:51Halloween, I can tell you right now,

2:21:53we're denying your request because we

2:21:55just don't have the police capacity. Um,

2:21:57we see it in special events all the time

2:21:59like I Grand Prix and Closure to Free

2:22:01cannot happen in the same weekend. We

2:22:03just don't have enough cops. You know,

2:22:06there are certain things that we just

2:22:07don't have enough available resources.

2:22:09So that is one of the things we would

2:22:11take into consideration um in reviewing

2:22:14these permits. Um and then again if they

2:22:18don't have the permit or their permit

2:22:20was refused then if they continued to

2:22:22have this event or caught the penalties

2:22:25would be issued by the police department

2:22:27similar how they're issuing those $250

2:22:30fines right now. Um and then on the

2:22:34second offense it would be $5,000. On

2:22:37the third offense, it would be $10,000.

2:22:40And not noted on this slide, but also

2:22:43Department of Consumer Protection can

2:22:45then take those violations and review

2:22:48their liquor permit.

2:22:50Um, and then just the appeals process.

2:22:52Uh, similar to what we've done with the

2:22:55fine schedule. Um, and Alder Marshon

2:22:57brings up a lot, we future proof the

2:22:59appeals process. We just reference the

2:23:01other part of uh the ordinance. So any

2:23:04changes will be done there in one place

2:23:06rather than in each ordinance matter's

2:23:08appeal process to make sure we're in

2:23:10compliance with state law as it comes to

2:23:12appeals.

2:23:13And we're happy to answer any questions.

2:23:18>> Any questions from this committee?

2:23:21All

2:23:23>> I thank you Mr. Chair and majority

2:23:25leader and um thank you for letting me

2:23:27sit up here. It's my first time at the

2:23:30table of legislation. It's an honor,

2:23:32Kelly. Um, I want to thank um, city

2:23:35staff. This is not just amendment that

2:23:38came. This is many years of trying to

2:23:40figure out a plague that has um, come

2:23:43upon our city resulting in deaths and

2:23:48just mayhem. Um, a loss of trust in a

2:23:51lot of residents and build um, and

2:23:53businesses in our downtown, but across

2:23:56um, the city as well and across the

2:23:58state. And so, um, I I have a question

2:24:01for all of you. What would happen if we

2:24:03did not amend this ordinance? What how

2:24:05would the city cope with, you know, bar

2:24:09crawls, juice bar events, um, if we

2:24:13didn't, um, enact [snorts] this

2:24:15ordinance with the new state statutes?

2:24:19So, right now, our teeth are limited

2:24:22under the existing ordinance. um that

2:24:25the fine of 250 order maximum allow by

2:24:28state statute. We reviewed with council

2:24:31the ability to use state statute, but

2:24:33since the local ordinance calls out the

2:24:35250, it's difficult to defend that if it

2:24:39gets uh adjudicated. Uh such we've kept

2:24:43the 250 on the tickets we've been

2:24:45issued. That is being legally challenged

2:24:48by one of the bars, but uh we're

2:24:50confident we can uphold those. Um, it

2:24:54also we can't say no to them, right?

2:24:57Like they they only have to provide us

2:25:00notice and under ordinance we can only

2:25:03build them for one cop. And if you've

2:25:05seen in some of the videos um on

2:25:09Halloween last year, one cop isn't

2:25:12enough to deal with it. Um, I can turn

2:25:14it over to the captain to elaborate on

2:25:17why [laughter]

2:25:20>> [clears throat]

2:25:20>> Well,

2:25:22>> many of these establishments have

2:25:24significant capacities um of several

2:25:27hundred individuals. When you have uh

2:25:31the patrons of these establishments when

2:25:3470 80% of of the patronage is under 21

2:25:38years old, it's kind of counterintuitive

2:25:40for what you would expect from a bar. Uh

2:25:42you know, state drinking age is is 21.

2:25:45It's that way across the country. I

2:25:47don't think anybody's debating if that's

2:25:48a good idea. And what these bars have

2:25:50been doing is essentially using this

2:25:52juice bar ordinance as a loophole in

2:25:54order to get underage people into the

2:25:56bar. Uh

2:25:59the consequence of which is we have

2:26:02teenagers spilling out into the streets.

2:26:03They they find a way to get served. I've

2:26:05explained this in the in the last

2:26:07meeting. [clears throat] The

2:26:08restrictions and the barriers within the

2:26:10establishments might as well be

2:26:12non-existent um for what type of a

2:26:14deterrent they are. And now we're

2:26:16dealing with uh like last year in

2:26:18Halloween we had approximately 10,000

2:26:21people come to the city um from all over

2:26:24the state. I mean these were people um

2:26:27everybody knows that we had the the uh

2:26:29the homicide last year in which uh the

2:26:32victim was 18 years old. One of her

2:26:34friends was also shot in an incident

2:26:36there. They were from Willamantic.

2:26:38>> That's really far to come from New

2:26:40Haven. Uh investigating in the

2:26:42perpetrators of back and forth gunfire.

2:26:44Um, one of the parties was from East

2:26:46Hartford. That's far. Uh, the others

2:26:48were from out of town as well, uh, from

2:26:50Ansonia and somewhere in in the valley,

2:26:52I believe, which isn't as much of a

2:26:53stretch. But the point being is the e

2:26:57either as pure coincidence or result of

2:27:01weak legislation,

2:27:03we have become the mecca for these

2:27:07underage bars in the state and and in

2:27:10the region. um which puts us at a

2:27:13tremendous disadvantage uh staffing

2:27:15wise. Um you know, not only are we

2:27:17dealing with, you know, [snorts]

2:27:19Halloween

2:27:21festivities, if you will, um from our

2:27:24residents and from the residents of the

2:27:26surrounding towns that that drive our

2:27:28local businesses, but we're getting an

2:27:29influx of these individuals from all

2:27:31over the state. Um you know, we're

2:27:34planning for the Halloween bar detail

2:27:35this year. A typical bar detail will

2:27:38have 10 or 12 officers. We're going to

2:27:40be north of 30 for this. Um, that's an

2:27:42expense. We don't like that. It's an

2:27:44expense out of our budget. It's an

2:27:46expense of the taxpayer. Uh, and it

2:27:48drains our resources uh as well because

2:27:50contractually we're limited. We can only

2:27:52have officers work 16 hours

2:27:54consecutively and we run into issues.

2:27:56And for a busy holiday like this year,

2:27:58Halloween falls on a Saturday. M

2:28:00>> so now we're dealing with the typical

2:28:02demands of weekends and weekend events

2:28:04on top of, you know, having to call

2:28:06these officers in uh in to work this. In

2:28:09addition to that, there's also strict

2:28:11laws if somebody happens to be under 18

2:28:15and acting in a manner in which they

2:28:16need to be arrested. Um detaining a

2:28:20juvenile is a is a process. We have to

2:28:22have multiple officers with that

2:28:24individual. They can't go down to our

2:28:26detention facility at one Union Avenue.

2:28:28They have to be escorted, taken to a

2:28:30private cell. We have to be able to make

2:28:31contact with parents. So, if we're

2:28:34having large events that are drawing

2:28:36thousands of under 21, which in most

2:28:39cases is also under 18 down to the city,

2:28:43uh, and these young people decide to run

2:28:46a monk partially because they've been

2:28:48served alcohol in these establishments,

2:28:50um, it depletes our resources very, very

2:28:53quickly. um if we have to arrest 10

2:28:55people under the age of 18, boom, our

2:28:57our our staffing is is now depleted and

2:29:00now we're appointing officers from other

2:29:02areas of the city and leaving some of

2:29:05the portions of the city without any

2:29:07police presence whatsoever. Uh I could

2:29:09go on, but out of respect for

2:29:11everybody's time, I'll I think that made

2:29:13the point.

2:29:18>> I could expound, but I don't have any

2:29:20questions.

2:29:21>> Great. Thank you. Uh Marks,

2:29:25>> given what you just said, um why didn't

2:29:27we take option three box of prohibiting

2:29:31noncluding?

2:29:32>> So I'll go into that. We had a large

2:29:34scale working group and it involved

2:29:35economic development. There are some

2:29:37good actors that from time to time do

2:29:40use the juice bar. Uh I'll use an

2:29:42example of Toad's Place. Toad's Place

2:29:44does not qualify for a venue license

2:29:48like a Schubert or a College Street has.

2:29:51they're not big enough. Um, so they

2:29:53actually have a cafe permit and they

2:29:55from time to time when they h they often

2:29:58just do 21 for their concerts. Um, but

2:30:00from time to time when they have an act

2:30:02that might have a broader draw, they

2:30:04activate the juice bar and they allow

2:30:06people under uh 21. And in many of those

2:30:09instances, they might be there with

2:30:10their parents who want to have an

2:30:12alcoholic beverage. So for good actors

2:30:15with longstanding records of compliance,

2:30:18it makes sense to have a pathway where

2:30:20they continue to do this and they don't

2:30:21get penalized because of the bad actors.

2:30:24>> I just asked, thank you for explaining

2:30:26that. I've actually now realized I've

2:30:27been at one of those toads events with a

2:30:29kid. Um, but h how many how many places

2:30:32would you describe as good actors in

2:30:34town who need this?

2:30:35>> So there are about 50 establishments in

2:30:38the city that are h are cafe holders.

2:30:41Very few of them activate as juice bars.

2:30:44Um,

2:30:46many of those are the bad actors, but

2:30:48like I said, there are some good actors

2:30:50that do utilize it, which is what number

2:30:53would you approximate good actors?

2:30:55>> Two.

2:30:56>> Realist realistically, it's you could

2:30:59probably count on the fingers of one

2:31:01hand. Um,

2:31:02>> Toad stands out. um you know an

2:31:05establishment [clears throat] like bar

2:31:07which is also a restaurant but they do

2:31:09occasionally have live entertainment

2:31:10typically not that would you know cater

2:31:13to uh an under 21 crowd but you know

2:31:15it's possible um and one of the things

2:31:18that we've received back as far from a

2:31:20you know from an [snorts] economic and a

2:31:21business development standpoint um is

2:31:24we're certainly not looking to to hurt

2:31:25these long-standing businesses who have

2:31:28never given us any reason to you know to

2:31:30question their their operational

2:31:32integrity

2:31:34uh before we're not trying to to hurt

2:31:35their livelihoods. Um but there's a big

2:31:39difference [clears throat] between Okay,

2:31:41there's a performer that under 21 people

2:31:44might wish to go see. Sure, most of us

2:31:46have attended some sort of musical

2:31:48performance as a teenager at [snorts] at

2:31:50at some point. That's a natural thing um

2:31:53that we don't want to take away from the

2:31:54young people either. Um, however, if

2:31:57it's just going into a into a bar, um,

2:32:01where where's the appeal for that other

2:32:03than being in a bar? Um, so that that's

2:32:06what this is designed for.

2:32:07>> Thank you, Mr. Thank you for the

2:32:08explanation. That was very helpful.

2:32:10>> Any other questions from the committee?

2:32:13>> Alder Rodriguez.

2:32:14>> Thank you. Um, what would you say has

2:32:17been an estimate in [clears throat]

2:32:19damages for one of these events, the the

2:32:23worst that you've seen?

2:32:25I don't know that we've done a monetary

2:32:27assessment of it, but I am sure the

2:32:29captain can give a narrative description

2:32:32of some of the chaos before we can hit

2:32:35[clears throat] play.

2:32:36>> Well, well, you know, for example, um,

2:32:40[cough]

2:32:41in my experience, um, significant or

2:32:43permanent private property damage is is

2:32:45typically limited. It's more of a mess

2:32:48and it's a bill for public works. So, I

2:32:50wouldn't be able to quote exactly what

2:32:51that costs, but after, you know, after

2:32:53these large bar weekends, just even a

2:32:56regular weekend, it doesn't have to be a

2:32:57holiday. Um, you know, we have to send

2:32:59public works through there to clean up

2:33:01the streets. Crown Temple, College

2:33:02Street, um, because there's always a

2:33:04significant mess left behind. A lot of

2:33:07the establishments like to point fingers

2:33:09at each other for, you know, who's

2:33:10responsible, but it's out there. It's

2:33:12clear to see plain. Um, you know, from a

2:33:15police standpoint, um, a lot of these

2:33:17bars, what really started to bring this

2:33:19to [laughter] a head, in addition to

2:33:20what happened last Halloween, [snorts]

2:33:22are these bar crawls where we had one

2:33:24specific promoter who was promoting out

2:33:27to almost exclusively college

2:33:29undergraduates, which as we know about

2:33:3270% of college undergrad students are

2:33:35under 21. They're doing these bar crawls

2:33:38where they're bringing in thousands of

2:33:40individuals, mostly under 21, to get

2:33:43served at these bars. They come out and

2:33:45I mean, the unpaid police overtime bill

2:33:48for some of these events is in excess of

2:33:50$10,000.

2:33:52Um, and this can happen frequently. I

2:33:54mean, we've already had to increase the

2:33:55size of of our bar details dramatically

2:33:58over the past few years. And this is,

2:34:00you know, this is no one-time one-off

2:34:02cost. This is a constant recurring cost

2:34:05uh that's driving up our our police

2:34:07overtime bill.

2:34:09>> Thank you. And the other question that I

2:34:12have is under you have the proposed

2:34:14ordinance amendments uh number three

2:34:18where it [clears throat] says allow the

2:34:19New Haven Police Department chief to

2:34:21designate one or more law enforcement

2:34:24officers.

2:34:26My question stems around the activity

2:34:30going on on an event. If there is a need

2:34:34to bring in additional officers,

2:34:38is the um business charged those

2:34:42additional officers to come in and

2:34:46address whatever chaos is happening?

2:34:49>> Well, well, well, that's what this is

2:34:50designed to enable. Um, right now we

2:34:52have a system where if you're running a

2:34:54juice bar event, you're required to hire

2:34:56one police officer uh at the expense of

2:34:58the establishment versus coming out of

2:35:00out of the city budget. Um, whereas for

2:35:03some of these events, the capacity, as

2:35:05we discussed before, one officer is is

2:35:07not enough to deal with in some cases

2:35:09hundreds of of youth. Um but this would

2:35:12enable us to you know get an estimate of

2:35:15what the capacity of of the of the uh

2:35:18building is. Um what the nature of the

2:35:21event is going to be like the hours in

2:35:23which they they intend to have this

2:35:25occur. All of these are factors and

2:35:26decide well they may need two three four

2:35:28officers and make that a stipulation or

2:35:31permanent approval. Um and so it's not

2:35:34an option for them to hire. It's now

2:35:35it's now a requirement. No, I understand

2:35:37that. But I mean during an event, things

2:35:40get out of hand. Now more officers come

2:35:44need to come to address whatever the

2:35:47issues are to take control of the crowd.

2:35:51Are those then

2:35:54uh charged to the businesses to the

2:35:56businesses?

2:35:58>> So thank you.

2:36:00>> It's a

2:36:03complicated question to answer. So, if

2:36:06it is something that is auxiliary to the

2:36:09event, it wouldn't get charged to the

2:36:11event organizer. If it is specific to

2:36:13the event, like they have more people

2:36:16show up than they they told us were

2:36:18showing up. Um, they run over time uh

2:36:21from their permit, then the the estimate

2:36:24of what their cost is, they get the bill

2:36:28for what the true cost is. So if there's

2:36:30three additional officers that need to

2:36:32be added to the detail because you told

2:36:34us there was going to be 250 people and

2:36:36there's a thousand people. I'm using

2:36:38extreme example that would get build to

2:36:40the organizer. But if you know Billy

2:36:43goes down the street and breaks a window

2:36:45and we have to call in the cop to take

2:36:46the report then you're not getting that.

2:36:49>> These things are also taken into

2:36:50consideration too. an establishment

2:36:53should somehow fool us once. Okay, they

2:36:56might they might get over on on having

2:36:58some police responses available back to

2:37:00the city, but if they haven't asked for

2:37:02a permit again, well, now now we're

2:37:04wiser to the effects. So, um you know,

2:37:07we can make it an increased requirement

2:37:08for officers um and be able to cite a

2:37:12hard reasonable this is what happened

2:37:13last time. Um so, now we're requiring

2:37:16more going forward.

2:37:18>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:37:21Any [clears throat] other questions over

2:37:22here?

2:37:22>> Can I ask a follow question?

2:37:24Thank you. Um I know um in intending the

2:37:28city plan discussion about this

2:37:31ordinance amendment that there was a

2:37:33question about the 10 consecutive years

2:37:36for a cafe permit. Can you explain the

2:37:39um rationale be behind 10 consecutive

2:37:42years um instead of

2:37:46like three or five or two? Um, we wanted

2:37:50somebody that was a known actor uh to be

2:37:54uh, you know, to know that they were

2:37:56going to be in compliance. Um, it needed

2:38:00to be more than the two years in good

2:38:02standing, right? Because if you've only

2:38:04been there one year, then well, you

2:38:06haven't had much time to not be in good

2:38:08standing. Um we started at a a level of

2:38:1120 years um and came down to 10 uh based

2:38:15on the average uh length of most permit

2:38:18holders in the city.

2:38:20>> I'd like to add that some of that comes

2:38:21from just understanding um you know from

2:38:24from police experience or city

2:38:25experience. Um the average [cough]

2:38:30[clears throat] life shelf life of of

2:38:31these establishments. Um, you know, a

2:38:34lot of these places, you know, when a

2:38:35when a new bar, a new club opens up, uh,

2:38:38there's a lot of buzz around that

2:38:40attracts a [clears throat] lot of

2:38:40business and they get that that, you

2:38:42know, opening burst, in which case they

2:38:44can follow the rules and still be

2:38:47profitable. However, when you know the

2:38:49the bar, the nightclub becomes old news

2:38:52and now everybody wants to go to the new

2:38:53one instead. We've seen this frequently

2:38:56for decades with dozens of different

2:38:58establishments where they now get

2:39:00desperate for business and then they

2:39:02start to compromise their standards and

2:39:04that's when they run things like juice

2:39:05bars and things like that in order to

2:39:08whether it's pay their debt or just keep

2:39:09the you know keep the place afloat. So

2:39:12usually in, you know, for most of these

2:39:15establishments, the first two to three

2:39:16years is is is kind of the honeymoon

2:39:18phase for them where they're the new

2:39:20thing in town and it's how, you know, do

2:39:22you do you have something that's unique

2:39:24about your establishment that's going

2:39:26to, you know, drive business in a

2:39:28sustainable way for a decade. Well, now

2:39:31you're much less likely to, you know, to

2:39:34start to cut corners if you get a pick

2:39:35up in your revenue stream.

2:39:38>> Thank you. Thank you.

2:39:39>> Thank you. Any other questions from

2:39:41committee?

2:39:44Um I'll just ask a couple uh regarding

2:39:46the 10 years. Is that defensible?

2:39:49>> Oh yeah, we think it is.

2:39:52I mean for all the reasons that you've

2:39:54heard um you know there were other

2:39:58possibilities but uh you know we landed

2:40:00on 10 as um that way an actor has plenty

2:40:05of time to you know establish themselves

2:40:07and show uh you know be in compliance

2:40:10for an extended length of time. As far

2:40:13as could somebody challenge that and say

2:40:16well that's that's our maturity.

2:40:18>> It [clears throat] could be challenged.

2:40:19I think we would be successful because I

2:40:21think you know a local board um has the

2:40:26legal authority to do what is in the

2:40:28best interests of

2:40:30uh for their for their city for their

2:40:32taxpayers. So I yeah I think legally it

2:40:35would be quite defensible.

2:40:38>> Great. That is part of the charter as

2:40:40far as the authority of the alders to

2:40:43have control over

2:40:45regulations of those kind of these kind

2:40:47of establishments.

2:40:49gambling and the such. Um I always

2:40:52wondered how we would implement

2:40:53something like that and we're doing it

2:40:54tonight responsibly. Uh the other thing

2:40:56that I wanted to ask is the enforcement

2:40:59part of the fines going up to 10,000

2:41:03[snorts] and as says I'm not paying that

2:41:06then what?

2:41:08>> Uh so any fine issued under municipal

2:41:11code is uh subject to standard

2:41:13collections. it could be referred out uh

2:41:16for collections similar to like a tax

2:41:19lean. Not exactly analogy, but it would

2:41:21be a similar collections method where a

2:41:24proceeding is filed in court um and then

2:41:27they have a sometimes a lean they have

2:41:30to pay at the court judgement. Um, in

2:41:34addition, the underlying state enabling

2:41:37legislation uh gives these penalties

2:41:40additional teeth in consideration of

2:41:43their liquor permit. So, not paying it

2:41:46and not being in good standing and even

2:41:49receiving it is kind of a strike against

2:41:51you because you have to be a good actor

2:41:55[clears throat] responsible in order to

2:41:56continue to maintain a liquor license.

2:41:59>> Okay. So in the form of a lean it goes

2:42:03>> we would have to go to court and then

2:42:04the court would issue a judgment and

2:42:06then it's like any other court issues

2:42:08judgment.

2:42:08>> But a lean on what? If they don't own if

2:42:11they're if the property is not being

2:42:13owned if they're not if they don't own

2:42:14the property that they're leasing it.

2:42:17>> It's it's it basically like a debt

2:42:20collector. It would be the same legal

2:42:22standing as if you didn't pay your, you

2:42:25know, I don't want to say mortgage

2:42:27because there's there's something tied

2:42:28to it. As if you didn't pay your credit

2:42:29card.

2:42:31>> Okay.

2:42:33And then they changed their name,

2:42:35[laughter]

2:42:36>> right? And then

2:42:38>> Yeah, I'm just wondering.

2:42:40>> It's not issued to the business, it's

2:42:41issued to the permit.

2:42:44they would they would have to find a a

2:42:46new period which would at least be an

2:42:48inconvenience and make them go through

2:42:50some steps if they were to reemerge as

2:42:52as something else. And most of these

2:42:54places, you know, for their initial

2:42:55funding, you know, to to remodel the

2:42:58inside to make it look like a new place

2:42:59to be able to get that startup money

2:43:01that they're all getting loans almost

2:43:04exclusively. Um, you know, and with that

2:43:06with that bad debt, it's it's going to

2:43:08significantly hamper their ability to,

2:43:10you know, financially reemerge as

2:43:13something A new permit would trigger a

2:43:16new zoning review and therefore the

2:43:18doors closed for future juice bars.

2:43:21>> Okay. Yep. Just thinking of something

2:43:24that happened on WH Avenue and those

2:43:26names changed and

2:43:28>> just got a little crazy. They're not

2:43:30there anymore.

2:43:32>> Uh okay. And I'm not calling any names

2:43:34to protect the innocent so we can just

2:43:36[clears throat]

2:43:37>> uh Author any other questions after

2:43:39author Rodriguez? Then we'll go to our

2:43:40public testimony.

2:43:41>> Thank you. Um, her question said about

2:43:44the police officers that are designated.

2:43:49Can a police officer, a New Haven police

2:43:52officer that's off duty ser um, not not

2:43:56necessarily be designated, but can that

2:43:59police officer work on their own accord

2:44:02for this business, for this event

2:44:05additionally to the designated ones?

2:44:08Thank you.

2:44:10How this works is if all the extra duty

2:44:13officers are technically off duty and

2:44:16the in fact they're working strictly for

2:44:18that area whether whether it's a

2:44:20construction job that you see on the

2:44:21road directing traffic or outside one of

2:44:23these establishments they're outside of

2:44:25regular duty but they are performing in

2:44:27an official police capacity. That's

2:44:28where the extra duty comes in. They're

2:44:30they're in that area where they're

2:44:32they're off duty but they're but they're

2:44:35acting in an official police capacity.

2:44:37If you're talking about an officer more

2:44:39or less, you know, moonlighting, going

2:44:41in there playing clothes and trying to

2:44:43do that, it's in the New Haven Police

2:44:45Department general orders that all

2:44:47officers have to get any outside

2:44:49business activity [clears throat]

2:44:50approved by the chief of police. So, if

2:44:52an officer just decided to go out and

2:44:54and do this on their own and some of

2:44:56these club owners tried to circumvent

2:44:57this rule by by hiring in that manner,

2:45:00um the chief could easily put a put a

2:45:03quick stop to that

2:45:04>> and they also wouldn't be in compliance

2:45:06with their special event permit. They

2:45:08have to hire through our system

2:45:11and then they are at the direction of

2:45:14[snorts] these guys.

2:45:17>> Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2:45:18>> Thank you. I'll ask again any further

2:45:21questions from committee members. Um

2:45:25we're going to go to the public portion

2:45:27of this, but I did see that Alder Kim

2:45:30signed up for the public portion. Did

2:45:32you want to make any final statement

2:45:33before we go um because then we're going

2:45:37to take a break and then you're welcome

2:45:39to stay for the public portion part but

2:45:42not for the deliberation part.

2:45:44>> Sure. Um thank you so much Mr. Chair and

2:45:47colleagues. Um, I have done a deep

2:45:52rabbit hole dive into these juice bars

2:45:55and the night life. So much that

2:45:57sometimes Alder Theodore and I have, you

2:45:59know, spent some time on the corner of

2:46:00Temple and Crown and will continue to do

2:46:03so. And um, I have, you know, been in

2:46:07New Haven for decades and used to be a

2:46:10avid, you know, customer of some of the

2:46:13of the of the nightlife establishments

2:46:16and know where we are now is um it is

2:46:22and I've talked to residents, business

2:46:24owners, it is beyond anything we've seen

2:46:27postcoid, especially with social media.

2:46:30I think it tars the reputation of all

2:46:32the good that we try to do in New Haven.

2:46:34Um because all you do is see chaos and

2:46:37fights. And these juice bars have been

2:46:42almost like a honeypot for to draw so

2:46:46many other bad actors, not even in the

2:46:49clubs, but the surrounding parking lots,

2:46:51those just wanting to cause havoc and

2:46:54chaos. And it is overwhelming anything

2:46:57that we can provide. um countless

2:47:02residents downtown and it's not just

2:47:04downtown because some of the motor

2:47:07vehicles that like to show off go around

2:47:10into the surrounding neighborhoods

2:47:12um and keeping everyone up at night. You

2:47:15know, this board of alders and the city

2:47:17have dedicated a downtown for all and

2:47:20making more [snorts]

2:47:22dense residential um areas of the city

2:47:25downtown in the center so gentrification

2:47:28doesn't spread. And

2:47:31most downtown residents are miserable.

2:47:33They can't sleep. They don't feel safe.

2:47:35And a lot of them um attribute it on

2:47:39these nights um to these elements in

2:47:41these juice bars. And so I um I've again

2:47:46like many of us, I didn't I thought a

2:47:48juice bar was a smoothie bar, but now

2:47:50I've been like got been like known as

2:47:53the juice bar or juicy alder. And so I'm

2:47:56like really dedicated to stopping this

2:47:58including over you know 21 hours of a

2:48:00hearing more to come um just to try to

2:48:05deal with this because I think this is

2:48:07what we are supposed to do is protect

2:48:09our our city um from the bad actors. I

2:48:12mean, I think we are happy to support

2:48:14businesses and entertainment

2:48:16[clears throat]

2:48:17and in youth doing things, but not when

2:48:20it ends up in in assaults and homicides

2:48:26and damage in just chaos. And if you are

2:48:29willing, if you are more interested, we

2:48:32have plenty of video

2:48:34um and photos of the aftermath. You

2:48:38could also track social media accounts

2:48:39like Scumbag Academy or others that I've

2:48:42now been, you know, looking at all the

2:48:46time just to see what is happening. Um,

2:48:50and we have more to talk about, but this

2:48:52will be a huge help in helping our

2:48:54officers in helping our businesses, our

2:48:57residents, our city services,

2:49:00economic development just keep a handle

2:49:04um so and and move and help to move

2:49:06forward. But this is the one thing that

2:49:08is a constant sore. So, thank you

2:49:10colleagues and thank you for letting me

2:49:12speak.

2:49:12>> Thank you. I'm sure we'll hear more from

2:49:14Alder Theodore in deliberation. Thank

2:49:17you, Alder Kim. Thank you for your

2:49:18presentation and we'll go now to our

2:49:21public hearing portion.

2:49:23>> Thank you all so much.

2:49:28>> Uh because we only have two people on uh

2:49:31for our public hearing portion. Our

2:49:34first person is looks like William

2:49:38>> Dully.

2:49:38>> Douly.

2:49:39>> Yes.

2:49:42>> Followed by

2:49:46Joe Ellis.

2:49:51[clears throat]

2:49:51>> Joe couldn't make it.

2:49:53>> Okay.

2:49:53>> Good to see you all again.

2:49:54>> You, too.

2:49:55>> Listen, I I I don't have a lot to say.

2:49:57>> Well, if you have a seat, just give us

2:49:59your name and address for the record and

2:50:00then you'll have the floor.

2:50:02Bill Deli, 85 Church Street. I think

2:50:05it's been about four months since we've

2:50:06seen each other last

2:50:08>> and I want to thank you for the work

2:50:09that you've done. I did not know that

2:50:11you had passed the uh uh zoning

2:50:14ordinance that no new juice bars could

2:50:16be done. Made my night because whether

2:50:19while our work has been intermittent,

2:50:21we've been in this for two years. The

2:50:23first quadruple shooting happened over

2:50:25two years ago. you know, a a call a week

2:50:28uh for juice bars to the police for

2:50:30serious crimes like rape and assault, um

2:50:33[clears throat]

2:50:34uh shootings, uh weapons violations

2:50:38being found at the doors. These are all

2:50:40documented and well proceeded. And um

2:50:44and [clears throat] and I have nothing

2:50:45against the juice bar ordinance. I don't

2:50:47want to prevent Toad's place from uh

2:50:50having a band. Cafe 9 does karaoke where

2:50:53the 18-year-olds come in from 18 to 21

2:50:54and they practice their wind pipes and

2:50:56they sing. Barcage has video game

2:50:59contests where they have it all. No

2:51:02problem. What we have [clears throat] um

2:51:05on this one small segment of the juice

2:51:08bar license is the agents and the

2:51:10servants of these bars put together a

2:51:12menu of options. live music, dollar

2:51:15drinks, uh 18 year old uh can get in. Um

2:51:21and uh it creates [clears throat] mayhem

2:51:24and we can't control the mayhem. I think

2:51:26a lot of it has to do with the uh

2:51:28population today. The kids just look at

2:51:31life differently. Precoid it wasn't as

2:51:33wide open. Now it is. And then a lot of

2:51:36what happens spills out on the street,

2:51:38the mayhem in the premise, the streets

2:51:40on Center Street, the parking lots.

2:51:42We've made uh headway in shutting them

2:51:44down and and and working through uh

2:51:47getting streets cleaned and stuff like

2:51:49that, but uh the defense of I'm bringing

2:51:54more people [clears throat] in

2:51:56is actually a mission that you can't

2:51:57control it, right? What do you need more

2:52:00police for? You know why? Why am I

2:52:02bringing because I'm going to have

2:52:03weapons at the door. I'm going to have

2:52:05assaults going on in the bar. So what

2:52:08happens inside of the of this juice bar

2:52:11during these events gets pushed out of

2:52:13the street, you know. So um I didn't

2:52:17know the state had passed or was working

2:52:19on on the ordinance either. Uh and that

2:52:21you guys are looking at it so seriously.

2:52:23So listen, I'm old news, man. You don't

2:52:25need me anymore.

2:52:26>> Uh I will be the agent at the monstrance

2:52:28hearing uh for one of the bad actors and

2:52:30we've been working uh uh intensely over

2:52:33the last couple of uh months. I know way

2:52:36too much about juice bars to tell you

2:52:38the truth. Um, but I want to thank you

2:52:41guys. I can't wait to tell the people.

2:52:44Uh, we have over 13 residential

2:52:47witnesses at this next remmonstrance.

2:52:49And from what I understand, that's a

2:52:50lot. And their Yale professors and their

2:52:53business owners, their grandparents. Um,

2:52:56and I'm going to send out an email

2:52:57tonight and tell them the progress you

2:52:59guys have made and they will be thrilled

2:53:00to hear it. So, I'm a fan of this group.

2:53:03Thank you. Uh, any questions?

2:53:05[clears throat] Any questions from

2:53:07committee?

2:53:09>> Alder Marks,

2:53:10>> thank you for all you do. May I just

2:53:11ask, might you notify the press of the

2:53:13monstrous hearing so we can all follow

2:53:15on what takes place?

2:53:17>> Uh, sure if we can.

2:53:19>> Thank you, sir.

2:53:19>> No problem. Well, Bald Kim, thank you

2:53:22for all your help. Bald Theodore, thank

2:53:24you for all your help. And and let me

2:53:26finish with this. I didn't I didn't want

2:53:28you I didn't [clears throat] pick this

2:53:30like I didn't wake up one morning

2:53:31[laughter] and say, "Hey, I'm going to

2:53:32go fight the juice bar. was brought to

2:53:34my front door. You know, I'm a citizen.

2:53:36I'm born and raised in Shelton. You

2:53:39know, I'm a veteran. Uh moved back home

2:53:42because my 33 direct relatives family

2:53:44are here and it happened in my front

2:53:46window. You can't go through life as a

2:53:47moral college

2:53:49>> and uh you guys are showing me

2:53:50incredible fortitude and I will tell

2:53:52everyone uh that. So, thank you.

2:53:54>> Thank you. Thank you for so much.

2:53:57>> Thank you.

2:53:58Do anyone else here from the public

2:54:00wishing to testify on any of these three

2:54:02items this evening? [clears throat]

2:54:04Is anyone from the public wishing to

2:54:06testify on any of these three items? For

2:54:09the last time, anyone from the public

2:54:10wishing to testify on any of these three

2:54:14items this evening? Madame Vice Chair,

2:54:17>> Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we close

2:54:19the public portion.

2:54:20>> Second. I move and second. Any

2:54:23discussion on closing the public portion

2:54:25this evening? Seeing none, all in favor

2:54:28of closing the public portion say I. Any

2:54:31opposed? Any abstaining? The public

2:54:34portion is closed and we will take a

2:54:367minut recess.

2:54:42[clears throat]

2:54:47[cough]

2:54:47[clears throat]

2:54:57golf course.

2:55:02>> Okay.

2:55:10[cough and clears throat]

2:55:19It's not just a

2:55:22like a letter. It's a

2:55:38>> way.

2:55:40Sure.

2:55:50>> And you know what? And I know

2:56:02>> you take your break.

2:56:04[laughter]

2:56:16Oh yeah.

2:56:16>> Oh yeah.

2:56:39They should be required to have

2:56:44a police status.

2:56:54>> Yes.

2:56:56and

2:57:08>> it's easier. It's easier than drafting

2:57:10your legislation.

2:57:16Oh, really?

2:57:20>> If you want to

2:57:39concern.

2:57:46[laughter]

2:57:51I have like

2:57:57[laughter]

2:58:04>> I was just at the shop yesterday in

2:58:06Greenberg.

2:58:12Reminds me

2:58:27what he is detectable. Of course, it's

2:58:30detectable. [laughter]

2:58:48I mean, we'll have to figure out

2:59:05the

2:59:14Yeah, we're all standing there with our

2:59:17tongues out.

2:59:21>> [snorts]

2:59:21>> No, doesn't mean it shouldn't have been

2:59:24either.

2:59:40>> Yeah. No, she goes through me. But the

2:59:41protocol is you ask the chair. You don't

2:59:43just decide a staff.

2:59:45>> Well, that's what that's what he just

2:59:47said. I'm just telling you what you what

2:59:49he just said.

2:59:51>> So, you know, we hangry right now. So,

2:59:54if my attitude

2:59:56is coming,

2:59:58>> that's just just because I'm tired.

3:00:02>> I'm hungry.

3:00:03>> I nine nine female cousins. I'm used to

3:00:07people being

3:00:18So generally our our protocol it's not

3:00:20going to be over two hours then we

3:00:22won't.

3:00:25>> So how do you determine if it's coming?

3:00:27We usually say no like you don't have a

3:00:28whole bunch of people testifying last

3:00:30night

3:00:34education committ

3:00:44>> the board of ed

3:00:46has to do better. I mean the mayor did

3:00:47that to himself when Alders wrote that

3:00:50letter in Auburn and said it's issued in

3:00:54Hill. The mayor came all said

3:00:57how dare the alers do this before

3:01:01and didn't acknowledge any of the issues

3:01:03and all sitting there looking at mold

3:01:05and

3:01:07you know he done

3:01:10at that point that was on and with the

3:01:14other

3:01:17I can't

3:01:19>> right so I mean he he doing bring he

3:01:22he's

3:01:24still trying to figure out

3:01:29>> how to

3:01:32say in my opinion

3:01:35>> what he did

3:01:37>> what he did but really

3:01:42>> don't use your money

3:01:43>> huh that's what I'm [laughter] saying

3:01:45>> that's okay

3:01:46>> that's

3:01:48you know I've been hearing stuff really

3:01:52tried to reach out to what's his name? I

3:01:55still want to get

3:02:00>> big money. No, get in line like

3:02:05>> and get your piece,

3:02:06>> right?

3:02:07>> Cuz that's what this program is about,

3:02:09>> right?

3:02:11>> Yeah. Double double if that's what you

3:02:14want to do. You can't do

3:02:17>> an extension. Extension mean you must

3:02:19got some more money to do more stuff.

3:02:22[laughter]

3:02:23Extension and replacement are two

3:02:26different words. Right.

3:02:27>> Right.

3:02:28>> Extension mean I got five.

3:02:31>> Right.

3:02:32>> And then we go above.

3:02:33>> Exactly. Don't

3:02:35change it.

3:02:36>> Have a little piece of it left.

3:02:40>> Oh, and you already know. Yesterday I

3:02:43got a phone call. I knew I was going to

3:02:46get a phone call

3:02:48>> from

3:02:49>> my son. [laughter]

3:02:51I know. I was

3:02:54like,

3:02:56>> I didn't know, but I realized it the

3:02:59other week that he

3:03:04>> Oh, he's at.

3:03:08>> Okay.

3:03:09>> And and when I realized that like a week

3:03:12or two ago, I was driving and hit him. I

3:03:15said, "Oh my god, son." And I thought

3:03:19about I was like,

3:03:22Right is right and wrong is wrong and he

3:03:23going to be all right.

3:03:25>> He will be all right. But I didn't know

3:03:28and if I knew it still would be the same

3:03:31because

3:03:33for that and that's going to always be

3:03:35my statement

3:03:37is very cold.

3:03:38>> If you want Yeah. Again, don't if you

3:03:41want to do

3:03:42>> if you want to do a parallel program,

3:03:43there's nothing stop,

3:03:45>> right? But you don't have to think about

3:03:47now. I got the question. If I don't know

3:03:50nothing, this next season I'm watching

3:03:54>> because you know, you know, because

3:03:58tear that up.

3:04:00>> So, this is my question. [laughter]

3:04:03that money went into the fun.

3:04:12>> So,

3:04:14do they have to go in contract with

3:04:18entities to be able to execute that

3:04:21money out? So,

3:04:22>> okay.

3:04:37I watch him [laughter]

3:04:39even though we had that was every year

3:04:44contract and reapprove that

3:04:50waiting for the ceiling to

3:04:53>> [laughter]

3:05:01>> I couldn't talk

3:05:18to it.

3:05:23many different

3:05:45>> No.

3:05:49>> Yeah. Well, we

3:06:05>> [laughter]

3:06:06>> We'll come back [clears throat] to

3:06:06order.

3:06:11>> Uh so we are now in deliberation.

3:06:16Is there a motion?

3:06:18>> Yes. Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

3:06:24I move item one.

3:06:28>> Second.

3:06:29Item one has been moved and seconded

3:06:31discussion.

3:06:34Mr. Chair,

3:06:42>> okay. Um, so Mr. Chair, um, I move it

3:06:47favorably.

3:06:49um as I think that we do have a

3:06:51responsibility to make sure that we

3:06:54address these oversized um vehicles on

3:06:58our um city streets. Um with the

3:07:00oversized vehicles and this is something

3:07:02that we dealt with some years ago. Um

3:07:05also these oversized vehicles a lot of

3:07:08times take up a lot of um parking spaces

3:07:11and then you know it's just it's it's

3:07:14just not good for our city um at large.

3:07:17And so I I am in agreement with this um

3:07:21with this ordinance

3:07:24um as it will help to tighten up the

3:07:27rules and regulations around oversized

3:07:30and commercial vehicles park the um

3:07:33residential streets.

3:07:37>> Thank you. Um is there any additional I

3:07:40think we have to

3:07:42>> there are some recommendations from

3:07:44staff

3:07:46for two two language additions if you

3:07:50want to add those things

3:07:56>> I I can't see you

3:08:00>> um so there is recommendations for

3:08:04amendments

3:08:06is there an order that Um or would you

3:08:10be amicable to make any amendments to

3:08:12this item?

3:08:14>> Um well, Alder Marsh just raised his

3:08:17hand and so maybe he has more of the

3:08:21information for the amendments.

3:08:25>> Alder Martian.

3:08:26>> Mr. Chair, I move to amend this item.

3:08:28>> Second [snorts]

3:08:30move to second discussion.

3:08:31>> Mr. Chair, I'm doing this for the

3:08:33purposes of discussion. On page uh on

3:08:36the first page of the memo from our

3:08:38legislative aid, I believe it's page 33

3:08:42of 42, she makes two suggestions in the

3:08:46recommendations section. So under one

3:08:50update section E as redlinined here,

3:08:54parking [clears throat] in a qualified

3:08:55vehicle in a residential park or

3:08:56cemetery zone will be the violation of

3:08:59commercial vehicle in a residential zone

3:09:01section 29-30 of this code as amended

3:09:04from time to time. That's one change in

3:09:07this amendment. The second change is to

3:09:09add a section F

3:09:13[clears throat] and it would read the

3:09:15city shall enforce violations of this

3:09:16section through the citation and hearing

3:09:18procedure of section 29-3.1

3:09:21of this code as amended from time to

3:09:23time.

3:09:25I am happy to make this motion for us to

3:09:28discuss it. I believe the first

3:09:30recommended change addresses a point

3:09:32that I was attempting to make in our

3:09:35questions with the staff which is the

3:09:37spec specifying the name of the

3:09:39violation

3:09:41is means that if they change the name of

3:09:43the violation in the future they'll have

3:09:45to change the ordinance but by saying

3:09:48citing the section as amended from time

3:09:50to time I believe it gives the city the

3:09:53ability to say oh that violation is

3:09:55called something else now but I think

3:09:58That's what our staff was attempting to

3:10:01get to. F. I believe what this is for is

3:10:05to is just to reference where the

3:10:07enforcement

3:10:09provisions of this ordinance reside

3:10:12>> so that um someone who wants to know

3:10:15more about how [clears throat] it's

3:10:16going to be enforced can just flip to

3:10:18that page or scroll to that page of the

3:10:21ordinance. I think they're both fine and

3:10:23prudent changes to make that don't

3:10:24affect the substance, but maybe improves

3:10:28the form and function of the ordinance

3:10:30language. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:10:33>> Any further discussion on this

3:10:36um proposed amendment?

3:10:40That's up for discussion.

3:10:56Okay. Anyone in favor of of u these two

3:11:00recommendations,

3:11:02>> please say I.

3:11:03>> Any opposed?

3:11:05>> Any obstaining?

3:11:07Okay. Go back to the item as amended.

3:11:10Any further? Alder Martin?

3:11:12>> Mr. Mr. Chair, I just want to circle

3:11:14back to the scriers error that I pointed

3:11:16out in our discussion

3:11:18and this the chair would wish me to make

3:11:21an amendment. I think it can be

3:11:22corrected very simply. So if colleagues

3:11:25look at the actual ordinance resolution

3:11:27is page seven of 42

3:11:31sec in the second half of the page it

3:11:33says section 29-53 parking over

3:11:36oversized street trucks and residential

3:11:38park zones subsection B number one says

3:11:44gross vehicle weight or gross

3:11:46combination weight rating more than

3:11:49th00and and in parenthesis 12,000bs

3:11:53The word 12 t we l e needs to be

3:11:58inserted between van and thousand. I

3:12:01think it's a scrier's error that can be

3:12:03remedyed without an amendment that would

3:12:06but I think it's worth pointing out what

3:12:07needs to be fixed. The other just this

3:12:10is just a small detail Mr. chair. Um,

3:12:16the staff could double check as to

3:12:18whether or not in after the first

3:12:21whereas clause, the word and should be

3:12:24inserted at the end of that clause.

3:12:27That's a small point, but it might also

3:12:30be good to put an and there.

3:12:33But those, I believe, are not

3:12:35substantial. They're more just scrier

3:12:37level things. And so having made those

3:12:40two very nitpicky comments, I want to

3:12:44speak in favor of this item. I think we

3:12:46need uh electronic and uh we we need to

3:12:51clarify the regulations around oversized

3:12:54vehicles so that we can actually empower

3:12:56our city staff to explain it effectively

3:12:59so people know what it is. I'm

3:13:01especially pleased to see this language

3:13:04spell out in much more detail when the

3:13:08provisions of this would not apply,

3:13:10right? Like if a moving van is in the

3:13:12neighborhood because somebody's moved,

3:13:14right? That's not that shouldn't be

3:13:16[clears throat] that truck shouldn't be

3:13:18ticketed. Somebody needs the truck next

3:13:19to their house when they're having their

3:13:20possessions moved out of it. Right?

3:13:22>> [snorts]

3:13:22>> So I think having much more clarity and

3:13:25specificity around circumstances when it

3:13:28would not apply is very a good move and

3:13:30so I encourage colleagues to vote yes on

3:13:33this item. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:13:34>> Thank you. Any further discussion?

3:13:37>> All vice chair.

3:13:40>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um and so I did

3:13:43want to recognize um staff. Um as I'm

3:13:46not sure, Al, you said that there were a

3:13:49couple of other um

3:13:50>> No, that was it. Those those were the

3:13:52two. Okay. Okay. That's all I just

3:13:54wanted to make clear. Thank you.

3:13:57>> Thank you, Vice. [clears throat]

3:13:59Comments, Rodriguez.

3:14:00>> Yes. Um, I'd like to say thank you to

3:14:03the um to Miss Simpson, the director of

3:14:07transportation, traffic, and parking for

3:14:10listening and and also recognizing that

3:14:14many calls are coming in to her

3:14:17department to the point that she went

3:14:20and reviewed our ordinances to improve

3:14:24them to address the concerns of the

3:14:27residents in our city. Thank you, Mr.

3:14:31Chair.

3:14:32>> Thank you all this Mark support. Thank

3:14:34you, Mr. Chair. Um to nitpick the

3:14:36nitpickers. Um I just think there's a

3:14:39missing uh additional period um in the F

3:14:43subjected by staff. Um the section is

3:14:4629-30.1

3:14:49without a period after the one. But I

3:14:51think now's the moment to do that.

3:14:53>> Yep. So

3:14:55>> Alder Mar appreciate.

3:14:56>> Yep. So what what we can do um

3:14:59[laughter] we will do a comprehensive

3:15:03uh through any scriveners errors through

3:15:07any spelling or punctuation errors that

3:15:09do not change the substance

3:15:11>> of the ordinance we'll just make sure

3:15:13that that's correct before it hits our

3:15:15second reading.

3:15:18>> Thank you. And then the what we present

3:15:21in our second reading will have any kind

3:15:23of um punctuation of spelling

3:15:25corrections. Make sure that's that's

3:15:30um any further discussion.

3:15:32>> No, just the

3:15:33>> Okay. Any other discussion from

3:15:36committee?

3:15:38All right. All in favor say I. I.

3:15:40>> Any opposed? Any abstaining? It will be

3:15:44given a favorable recommendation with

3:15:46all corrections uh to the full board. Uh

3:15:51madame vice chair.

3:15:52>> Um thank you Mr. Chair. Um I favorably

3:15:56move item two.

3:15:58>> Second

3:16:00move and second it.

3:16:02Um I um I am in support of this um

3:16:07proposal um for more um tools in um the

3:16:12tool belt in order to keep things safe.

3:16:16has testified tonight. One of the true

3:16:19reasons for wanting to um consider these

3:16:23type of elements is because of those

3:16:25small things um such as parking in front

3:16:29of the fire hydrant um can end up um a

3:16:33tragedy. And so by having these um these

3:16:37elements um I think um it will help our

3:16:40city to um be safe. Um, however, and I

3:16:44don't think this is a an amendment, um,

3:16:47but we do want to look at the language

3:16:50as um related to um the tickets or spell

3:16:54it out in this ordinance somewhere um

3:16:57the um not amendment um process, the

3:17:01appeal um process for um these various

3:17:06violations because as I um talked about

3:17:09in the the during the presentation

3:17:11is sometimes people just don't know they

3:17:13have a ticket and then because they

3:17:16don't know they have the ticket it

3:17:17doubles triples and and it really puts

3:17:21uh people in um a bad situation. So I am

3:17:25in support of this item. I hope my

3:17:27colleagues will support this item as we

3:17:29have a responsibility as a legislative

3:17:32body to give our city um departments the

3:17:35tools necessary to keep us all safe.

3:17:38Thank you.

3:17:40Thank you.

3:17:42Uh, vice chair.

3:17:45Um,

3:17:46I I see I think but let's let's stay

3:17:49what what you were doing.

3:17:51>> Um,

3:17:54I did see it. So, I think what we can do

3:18:01>> Yeah. Where was it?

3:18:06So I I think what um the director of

3:18:08TTMP is amicable to do is we have the

3:18:12fine

3:18:14and then the fine doubles and then the

3:18:17fine triples. And what we could do is

3:18:22put into the ordinance what they're

3:18:23already doing is sending out a notice

3:18:27when that fine doubles and then sends

3:18:30out a notice when the fine triples. And

3:18:32so we can actually add that language

3:18:34into the ordinance so that when the fine

3:18:36is going to double the person will get

3:18:38notification

3:18:40and when the fine is going to triple

3:18:41then they will get notification. So then

3:18:43this way it's not just happening without

3:18:46notification they will get that extra

3:18:48letter from TT

3:18:52just to to clarify because the way that

3:18:54it sounded was that once it doubled then

3:18:58you get a notice once it triple then you

3:19:00get a notice. It's almost like how can

3:19:03we do it p like you know within the next

3:19:06two weeks or next week this um citation

3:19:11will double or something like that. So

3:19:13yeah, so if we can put some language in

3:19:15there that speaks to providing some type

3:19:18of notification that um you know prior

3:19:22to um the um double and tripling of the

3:19:28um citation. That would be very helpful

3:19:31because at least then people know even

3:19:34if they um

3:19:37>> they can go [clears throat] and appeal

3:19:38it also. So we can set that into H. Um

3:19:43escalation of fines may occur in the

3:19:46event of fines assessed

3:19:49etc etc.

3:19:52Um

3:19:54so within 45 days

3:19:57where was it that the fines will

3:20:08>> Yep. So then we can just insert a line

3:20:10that before that the person will be

3:20:13notified in writing. Um

3:20:19>> uh how many days do we want it before

3:20:22the fine is doubled and then tripled? We

3:20:24can just add a line to at the end.

3:20:28>> Uh

3:20:30we'll I'll gladly get help with this

3:20:32language. Al Mr. Chair, I'm just seeking

3:20:35to understand exactly what the concern

3:20:38is. Indeed, it mentions on the same page

3:20:42what the process is for determining if

3:20:44there's a violation, right? The evidence

3:20:46is given to a person who actually makes

3:20:49a determination in terms of violation

3:20:51and then a notice of violation is mailed

3:20:54[clears throat]

3:20:54>> to the last registered address of the

3:20:57owner of the vehicle according to the

3:20:58DMV [snorts] and then a different

3:21:00process for the jurisdiction. Right.

3:21:02Yep. So, are we seeking

3:21:04to is

3:21:07our vice chair seeking to have the

3:21:10information about the potential future

3:21:13doubling and triplings included in that

3:21:15initial notice or is she seeking to have

3:21:20additional mailings

3:21:23after the first one? Does which is just

3:21:25the notice of the violation?

3:21:27Additional mailing saying, "Okay, we

3:21:29notified you 24 days ago. it's about to

3:21:32double and then it's about to triple.

3:21:35>> So that's that that's what I think we

3:21:37should just be clear because they're

3:21:38already when I've gotten

3:21:41>> this may not be

3:21:44>> breaking news but I've gotten speeding

3:21:46tickets [clears throat] before.

3:21:48>> I got a speeding ticket in Middletown.

3:21:49That's where my son goes to college and

3:21:51they have red light they have speed

3:21:52cameras there. You know we've all gotten

3:21:54parking tickets before. So when I look

3:21:56at those notices often times that

3:21:58information is already provided. this is

3:22:01when it's due. This is what happens if

3:22:02you don't pay it by then. This is what

3:22:04happens if you don't pay it by then. So,

3:22:06in those initial notices,

3:22:08>> when I get a bill for tolls in

3:22:11Massachusetts, the information about

3:22:13what's going to happen to that amount

3:22:15and how it will increase if you don't

3:22:16pay in time, it's in that original

3:22:18notification. So, I have that

3:22:20information.

3:22:22>> Um, but I think so, so that should be

3:22:25there, but I don't know that we need the

3:22:26ordinance because that seems to be

3:22:28fairly standard practice already. Yes,

3:22:30>> I think I think the question is do we

3:22:32need do we really need additional

3:22:34notifications if that information?

3:22:37TTMP does send out notification,

3:22:41additional notification when the fines

3:22:43are going to be increased

3:22:46um doubled and tripled.

3:22:48And so, um, I think the the request is

3:22:52to just put that in the we're taking

3:22:55their policy of sending out

3:22:58notifications when it is doubled and

3:23:00tripled and putting that information

3:23:02into [clears throat] the ordinance that

3:23:05they shall send out notifications at the

3:23:08point

3:23:10uh, prior to the fines being double.

3:23:14notification prior to the fine being

3:23:18tripled.

3:23:22>> Um, yeah. Up to the up to the mark of

3:23:25$250, which

3:23:27>> and and again the the whole reasoning

3:23:30the reasoning behind me looking at this

3:23:33is for the um folks that may not open

3:23:37their mouth, right? And like you said,

3:23:40that first notification has all the

3:23:43information of what can happen, double,

3:23:45triple, all of that. But if I don't

3:23:48know, if I haven't used my car and my

3:23:50kid um has taken my car and did all this

3:23:53stuff, now I have these not um the this

3:23:57uh citation to get that notification

3:24:00about the possibilities of that initial

3:24:02one being doubled or tripled. Um is it's

3:24:06going to be helpful because as um

3:24:08testified tonight, tonight it's not

3:24:10about making money. It's about changing

3:24:13behaviors. And so we want to be able to

3:24:16give folks the opportunity to if the if

3:24:20the fine is whatever the first fine is,

3:24:23then good. Um but if it's about the

3:24:26double or it's about the triple, I

3:24:28really think people need to um be made

3:24:31aware.

3:24:33>> So if you miss the first letter, okay,

3:24:36the second letter is coming.

3:24:38>> Now you got three letters. Chances are

3:24:41you're not going to miss that second or

3:24:43third letter. You might wait a minute.

3:24:45This is coming in second or third time.

3:24:47I better open this up and see what this

3:24:48is. This is not necessarily junk mail.

3:24:50>> Exactly.

3:24:53>> Um, and we're still in discussion. Alder

3:24:55uh Theodore,

3:24:57>> I just want to clarify this is something

3:24:59that is already happening that someone

3:25:01is getting. You get a first letter once

3:25:03you get a ticket with all of this

3:25:04information. You get a second letter

3:25:07before the fine is doubled.

3:25:11>> Yes.

3:25:11>> Okay. So we are not providing or like

3:25:13putting any more work on [clears throat]

3:25:16director Simpson or the city's plate in

3:25:18terms of timing and cost of mail.

3:25:21>> It is my polic It is my understanding

3:25:23that is their current policy.

3:25:25>> Okay.

3:25:29>> Yeah. And and and because we are we're

3:25:31in deliberation.

3:25:32>> Okay. They

3:25:34>> I don't know if this is okay. I saw I I

3:25:37guess

3:25:41maybe this is unforgiving and I also

3:25:43have not I don't own a car. I I'm not

3:25:45getting traffic tickets. But um

3:25:50part of me feel like

3:25:52I feel like two letters should be

3:25:54enough. Um

3:25:57and it's also not this isn't a $500

3:26:00fine. Um, and it sounds like there is a

3:26:03lot of flexibility in terms of appealing

3:26:06and then you going in and getting it

3:26:08matched. And so I guess I have some

3:26:10hesitancy over the third letter and I

3:26:12know mailing things isn't free and

3:26:15there is some labor involved, but um

3:26:20I don't know. That's just I was looking

3:26:23out in the crowd. It seemed like they

3:26:24only do send two letters right now in

3:26:26current policy.

3:26:27>> Yeah. So we're Yep. So we're in

3:26:29deliberation.

3:26:30>> Okay. and um and I appreciate

3:26:33um the [snorts] affirmation that we're

3:26:35getting um and so but we're just not

3:26:39going to note that on the record. Okay.

3:26:41>> Sorry about that. I guess I I wonder I

3:26:44think my vote would be for two letters.

3:26:47>> That's my comment deliberation. Thank

3:26:48you.

3:26:49>> Okay,

3:26:50>> Mr. Chair.

3:26:50>> Thank you Theodore. Um

3:26:56>> I don't want to spend a lot of time on

3:26:57this. I don't want to spend a lot of

3:26:59time because it seems like it's beating

3:27:00a dead horse for no reason. Alls I want

3:27:03to know if my son stole my car and I'm

3:27:05getting ready to get the ticket is

3:27:07doubling and now I got to pay $200

3:27:10versus um 100. I need to know that prior

3:27:14to it being 100. That's that's the only

3:27:17thing that I'm trying to make happen

3:27:19here. So currently TTP does have does

3:27:22have the process that they send out a

3:27:24letter a courtesy letter letting people

3:27:26know that the person

3:27:29>> listen I need to be the one talking

3:27:31please

3:27:35uh TTMP does send out a letter as a

3:27:37courtesy letting people know that the

3:27:40fine has doubled and then the fine

3:27:43triples

3:27:44or it just doubles. I don't think it

3:27:46goes to a triple, but it goes up to to

3:27:49>> it. It goes whatever it needs to do to

3:27:51get up $250. That's what it does.

3:27:53>> They have the policy that they send that

3:27:55out. Um the the the conversation is

3:28:00whether we want to take that policy and

3:28:02put that into the ordinance.

3:28:05That's all that we're talking about

3:28:07right now. Um if there is a language for

3:28:12that, then we'll entertain it. If not,

3:28:14then just move on.

3:28:17Um, and so

3:28:20>> did you want to put that into language?

3:28:22>> I do. If if they have the policy, I'm

3:28:24not trying to add extra. I just want

3:28:26people to be given a fair chance to know

3:28:30before they hit that that magic number.

3:28:32And so if the policy is already

3:28:34[clears throat] in place and this is

3:28:36what we do at that line. If the policy

3:28:39is not in place and this isn't what we

3:28:41do, then we need to maybe uh uh I don't

3:28:46know what we're going to do with it, but

3:28:47we don't have to beat this down like a

3:28:49dead horse.

3:28:50>> Okay. I'll go to Alder Marks and then

3:28:52Alder Marian

3:28:53>> and then we'll we'll keep rolling.

3:28:55>> So I think I'm in agreements with Alder

3:28:56Theodore and I think where you've come

3:28:58to um that we shouldn't send a notice

3:29:00after the doubling. I'd like to suggest

3:29:01that we can do this by putting a comma

3:29:03after the word double with first class

3:29:07with notice sent by first class mail to

3:29:11with notice sent by first class mail

3:29:12period.

3:29:16Put a comma after the word

3:29:1930 days the date said penalty shall

3:29:21double

3:29:24with notice sent by first mail. Period.

3:29:28I think I'll I'll take that as

3:29:30discussion now. We'll just continue

3:29:31discussion then we'll because you're not

3:29:33making a formal no discussing suggestion

3:29:37al Mr. Chair I move to amend this

3:29:41>> second

3:29:41>> Mr. Chair my motion to amend is this I I

3:29:44think it needs to be a little bit more

3:29:45clear than what Alder Marks is

3:29:47suggesting. So my amendment would be

3:29:50adding a sentence to section subsection

3:29:53H. That additional sentence would read,

3:29:56"A notification shall be sent by first

3:29:59class to the owner

3:30:025 days before the doubling of penalties

3:30:05due to non-payment.

3:30:10I I I think that reflects what the

3:30:13intention is and for the sake of

3:30:15discussion, I make that amendment." Mr.

3:30:18Chair,

3:30:19>> any further discussion? [clears throat]

3:30:23>> Okay. Okay. All those in favor say I.

3:30:25>> I.

3:30:26>> Any oppose?

3:30:28>> Any abstaining?

3:30:29>> I'm just going to I don't think that

3:30:31needs to be opposed to

3:30:33>> you opposed. [clears throat] Okay.

3:30:34>> Um any obstaining? The eyes have it.

3:30:37Okay. We're back to the item as amended.

3:30:40Any further discussion on the item?

3:30:46[laughter]

3:30:48May

3:30:50an amendment. [clears throat]

3:30:51>> You have an amendment.

3:30:52>> May I? Certainly appropriate. Now I'm

3:30:55interested in moving an amendment

3:30:58um to section N

3:31:02>> regarding disclosure of personally

3:31:03identifiable information um to state no

3:31:07information other than license plates

3:31:09and vehicle characteristics shall be

3:31:11collected. Period.

3:31:12>> Second.

3:31:14Have moved and second. Discussion

3:31:16remarks. Um it just seems to me that as

3:31:19um with the growth of AI and the

3:31:22increase in the capacity of these

3:31:24cameras to do you know all kinds of

3:31:25things regarding identifying people with

3:31:28respect to the privacy concerns of um

3:31:32our residents which they think do feel

3:31:34overwhelmed by um cameras whether they

3:31:37be called flock or not and the different

3:31:39cameras we're putting in place um it

3:31:41seems to me and the question was asked

3:31:42of the director I don't think she had

3:31:44any objection um I think she stated that

3:31:47we do need a license plate to identify

3:31:48the car. We do need something of the

3:31:50vehicle characteristics, but there's no

3:31:52need to be doing any kind of facial

3:31:54identification or fa facial recognition

3:31:57of um anybody driving the car in the

3:32:00car. So that's my suggestion.

3:32:04>> Any further discussion

3:32:06follow

3:32:06>> point of information, Mr. Chair, would

3:32:09our colleague from the 26 ward be

3:32:11willing to repeat what she said and to

3:32:14tell us where in would be would it be a

3:32:17new number one? Would it be number four?

3:32:19Would it be I I just need to understand.

3:32:20>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Happy to slow

3:32:22down for a a second. Um what I would

3:32:24propose is that under N we have a new

3:32:26number one. Um one will become two, two

3:32:31becomes three, three becomes four, four

3:32:33becomes five. As you'll note, the

3:32:35sections right now involve disclosure

3:32:39and storage. I'd like to put something

3:32:41above disclosure and above storage about

3:32:43collection. So it would be a section

3:32:45about collection, then a section about

3:32:47disclosure, then a collection about

3:32:49storage, and the collection would be no

3:32:52information other than license plates

3:32:54and vehicle character characteristics

3:32:57shall be collected.

3:33:00Period. That being a limitation on what

3:33:02the camera is allowed to capture. Um,

3:33:06regarding the vehicle,

3:33:10>> would you be at um

3:33:14amicable to just make that number five.

3:33:20I do feel strongly that this is the

3:33:24original classification of what we're

3:33:26actually collecting on the camera and

3:33:28then it follows from that logically that

3:33:30what you then can disclose to anybody

3:33:33else the next section referring to what

3:33:35personnel within TTP can discuss with

3:33:37each other and the next about what can

3:33:39be stored sort of within the city

3:33:41systems that we [snorts] need to define

3:33:43what's being collected first.

3:33:48[snorts]

3:33:52>> Any further discussion? Um, I'll go to

3:33:55order Theodore and then to order Marian.

3:33:57>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just don't know

3:33:59if I fully understand the logistics of

3:34:01only collecting a car, information about

3:34:03a car and its relationship to the like

3:34:07I think I would need to hear more about

3:34:09the technology and if they feel like

3:34:11that is possible. Um

3:34:15because I just don't like are we

3:34:17thinking we're cropping the

3:34:20photo and that's all we keep. I just I

3:34:22think that like to me feels like it

3:34:24creates more work and maybe isn't

3:34:26necessary given all of these other

3:34:28safeguards.

3:34:30>> May I respond to that, Mr. Chair?

3:34:33>> Marks.

3:34:33>> Yes. So my response would be that as

3:34:35director Simpson had shared with us,

3:34:37these are parameters we're setting for

3:34:39devices we seek to sort of locate and

3:34:42find for vendors and that I think it's

3:34:45important that we set parameters for

3:34:47what we'd like this camera to do, the

3:34:49limitation, the respect of privacy. And

3:34:51if for some reason that's not possible,

3:34:53we could always amend the ordinance

3:34:55[clears throat] based on whatever um you

3:34:57know, if there was something different

3:34:58that the vendor was offering. But to me,

3:35:00it's a very important statement of

3:35:01principle which I think is important

3:35:03that we as our constituents are asking

3:35:07um that we do everything we can at all

3:35:09opportunities to respect as much privacy

3:35:11as possible as we're using cameras and

3:35:13AI AI in their lives.

3:35:19>> Uh

3:35:21let me go to other alters and we'll come

3:35:23back. Alder Marian and then Alder

3:35:26Rodriguez and then if you still have a

3:35:27question I will come to you.

3:35:30Alder Marian. [clears throat]

3:35:31>> Yeah, thank you Mr. Chair. Um I'm

3:35:34grateful for the amendment and the

3:35:36further explanation on intent. I don't

3:35:40think it's necessary.

3:35:42Uh I think that can be dealt with in the

3:35:45RFQ process for the vendor in terms of

3:35:48what the design specs would be for the

3:35:50equipment. Mhm.

3:35:51>> And I actually think we create a

3:35:52situation where there will be a lot of

3:35:54inadvertent violations of the ordinance

3:35:56which creates a potential viability for

3:35:58the city internally and externally. I

3:36:01don't think we should do that. And so

3:36:02I'm speaking uh in opposition to the

3:36:05amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:36:07>> Thank you, Alder. Alder Rodriguez. Um I

3:36:11believe that it's pretty much said here

3:36:15under [clears throat] N uh disclosure of

3:36:18personal information it says under N1

3:36:23no personally identifiable

3:36:26information shall be disclosed. Um if we

3:36:30become a little more specific then that

3:36:33can um weaken

3:36:37I believe N uh.1

3:36:41in the ordinance.

3:36:43Um I'm opposing it for that reason.

3:36:46Thank you Mr. Chair.

3:36:48>> Thank you Rodriguez. Alder Theodore.

3:36:50>> I'm all set. Thank you.

3:36:54Uh

3:36:56okay.

3:36:59Um and just understand the the format.

3:37:02So we normally don't let anyone speak

3:37:04twice. We go around and let others speak

3:37:06and then we come back. I don't want you

3:37:08to think I was like cutting you off or

3:37:10anything. Uh any further discussion on

3:37:13this item as

3:37:17uh on this amendment actually Theodore

3:37:20on this

3:37:20>> on the amendment. Sorry.

3:37:22>> Okay. All right. Um, all in favor of

3:37:24this amendment say I.

3:37:26>> I.

3:37:30>> Let me see who that was.

3:37:32>> All in favor of the amendment.

3:37:36>> I I

3:37:37>> Okay, two are in favor of the amendment.

3:37:39All those that are opposed say nay.

3:37:41>> Nay.

3:37:42>> All right. It does not pass. Uh, we're

3:37:46back to the item as amended. Any further

3:37:50discussion? Alder Theodore.

3:37:52>> Thank you, Mr. share. Yeah, I think I

3:37:54expressed my general concerns about

3:37:58the global direction we're taking in

3:38:01terms of cameras and I think I'm

3:38:05speaking in support of this um ordinance

3:38:08amendment. I think this is not the

3:38:12fundamental issue. I think like as a

3:38:14city we need to start considering what

3:38:16is the relationship [clears throat] we

3:38:18want to have with cameras. And so I

3:38:20think like kind of this one by one um

3:38:23like voting no here one by one is not

3:38:25necessarily the most effective. And I

3:38:27think this does so much well in terms of

3:38:30being able to enforce really really

3:38:32really important traffic violations um

3:38:35without as many bodies on the ground.

3:38:38And so I am grateful to Director Simpson

3:38:40and Deputy CEO and the whole team who

3:38:43thought of this. Um, I think whatever we

3:38:45can do to fill in for limited bodies on

3:38:48the ground is incredible. Um, but I

3:38:51don't know. I don't know if it would

3:38:52work look like a working group, but I

3:38:54just know that like the influx of

3:38:55cameras to the city is something people

3:38:57are really scared about and so something

3:39:00that's thinking about the citywide

3:39:02impact could be valuable.

3:39:04[clears throat]

3:39:04Thank you, Mr. Chair. But yeah, I will

3:39:06support this.

3:39:07>> Thank you. Um before I go to Alder

3:39:09Marian, I just want to note that I will

3:39:12we will go through this amendment and

3:39:14just make sure that it is genderneutral.

3:39:18Um just something I had saw earlier, the

3:39:21director or his or her designate. We'll

3:39:24probably just change that to the

3:39:26director or their designate. Um and just

3:39:29making sure that the that um this is

3:39:32remains in sync with how we do things

3:39:35here with

3:39:39all right. Uh any alder Marian and then

3:39:41I'll go to Alder Rodri for for

3:39:43discussion.

3:39:45>> Thank you Mr. Chair. I want to speak on

3:39:47the substance. I I have a couple

3:39:49nitpicking details but I'll save them

3:39:52for later. On the substance I'm in favor

3:39:53of this proposal. I think it's needed. I

3:39:56think protecting the life and safety of

3:39:59residents, particularly people uh

3:40:04who aren't very visible, who are

3:40:05vulnerable road users, for example. I

3:40:07think it's just really important. Um

3:40:11colleagues might recall that I asked the

3:40:13director questions about whether or not

3:40:15she would be immunable to certain

3:40:16whereas clauses. Um those are in place

3:40:20simply to capture legislative intent.

3:40:22They're not as strong as the effective

3:40:24clause, which actually the thing that

3:40:26the legislation does. No, therefore

3:40:28being

3:40:29so whereas Claus might [cough] add to

3:40:32help explain the intent more. But as I

3:40:35thought more about it, I thought that if

3:40:38this committee is concerned about this

3:40:41being applied more broadly than the

3:40:43stated intent of the present TTP

3:40:46director,

3:40:48then we could potentially amend it to

3:40:50require

3:40:51board of approval or at least board of

3:40:54all review and potentially approval of

3:40:56the location of these devices. That is a

3:40:59much stronger protection than they would

3:41:01ask. So I would I personally don't think

3:41:05that's necessary because we can require

3:41:08the TTP director to come back to us at

3:41:10any time to talk about this program

3:41:12which for me feels sufficient but uh

3:41:15whereas claus in my second thinking

3:41:18about it isn't

3:41:20>> that helpful. If we were really worried,

3:41:22we would require alternat review and

3:41:25possibly approval of the locations.

3:41:28But like I said, I'm not too I'm not

3:41:30that worried about it at the moment.

3:41:32[clears throat] I'm in favor of this. I

3:41:34think it's needed. Um my small details

3:41:37are in addition to the review for gender

3:41:40neutral, whenever a department is named

3:41:42in the ordinance, we should make sure

3:41:43it's cons named in the same way it is

3:41:45elsewhere in the ordinance.

3:41:47>> Uh and this is a small point.

3:41:49capitalization chief administrator's

3:41:51office is not capitalized and maybe it's

3:41:54not anywhere in the ordinance

3:41:56>> and that's fine but if it is capitalized

3:41:58in the ordinance then it should be

3:41:59capitalized here you know sometimes you

3:42:01hear in New Haven Police Department

3:42:02sometimes you hear New Haven Police

3:42:04Services however we say it in the

3:42:06ordinance is how it should be said here

3:42:08those are just small details the final

3:42:11small detail and this really sheds a

3:42:13light on how OCD I am about this Mr. But

3:42:16I've never liked and or

3:42:19[laughter] because it's really just or

3:42:22andor is and it's also I find it to be

3:42:25grammatically informal and and not

3:42:28appropriate but I'm old school and quite

3:42:31uptight about these things Mr. Chair. So

3:42:32I'm speaking about the second page of

3:42:35the resolution page 21 section 29-158

3:42:39automated parking control systems. The

3:42:42second s second sentence of a says the

3:42:45director or his or her soon to be their

3:42:47designate shall establish policies,

3:42:49procedures and or guidelines.

3:42:52The more restrictive is to say shall

3:42:55establish policies, procedures and

3:42:57guidelines.

3:42:58That requires them to do all three of

3:43:00those things. But when you say and or

3:43:02you really mean just or

3:43:05because or means you should do one of

3:43:06those three at least whereas and means

3:43:09you have to do all three. So I think

3:43:10that maybe the question is do we do we

3:43:13want to require the the director to do

3:43:16all three of those things policies

3:43:18procedures and guidelines because if we

3:43:20do then we should use the conjunctive

3:43:22word and

3:43:25but I think we should just choose which

3:43:27one and that could be something that we

3:43:30deal with in the details. Thank you Mr.

3:43:32Chair.

3:43:38>> Uh yes and I see you Yeah. Let me just

3:43:41kind of um let me just think

3:43:45uh

3:43:48because there is another phrase that we

3:43:51um what is the other phrase that we use

3:43:53all over Marian when we want to say

3:43:58uh so we can say we we use the phrase

3:44:01including but not limited to or

3:44:03something along those lines

3:44:05>> uh if we don't want to require all three

3:44:08but I don't see a reason why it

3:44:09Shouldn't be all three since this is

3:44:11absolutely brand new.

3:44:13>> This is not an amendment. Well, it is an

3:44:15amendment to our code of ordinances, but

3:44:18this is this is new. [clears throat] So,

3:44:20there's no reason why it should not

3:44:22include all three policies, procedures,

3:44:25and guidelines. [clears throat]

3:44:27>> Um, okay. I'm just making a um comment

3:44:31on your on your statement. Uh

3:44:34>> if I may, if I may, um the words policy,

3:44:38procedures and guidelines are not

3:44:39technical terms. Um I think that policy

3:44:42and procedures are probably far closer

3:44:44to universally understood versus

3:44:47guidelines without definitions of what

3:44:49these are. I think it would be

3:44:50sufficient to establish policies and

3:44:52procedures.

3:44:57>> Thank you, Alder Rodriguez.

3:44:59>> Uh thank you. In terms [clears throat]

3:45:01of of

3:45:04in terms of the amendment,

3:45:07I have none. I just want to go on the

3:45:10item.

3:45:11>> Okay. You didn't make an amendment

3:45:13though. No, we're just we're just in

3:45:15discussion and just um

3:45:17>> I mean I would I think there should be

3:45:20that. Um so let me go to Alder Marian

3:45:24and then we'll come to you all.

3:45:25>> Mr. Chair move to amend

3:45:27subsection A of section 29-158.

3:45:32>> Mr.

3:45:32>> Yep. [clears throat]

3:45:33>> Mr. Chair, my amendment would be for

3:45:35that second sentence. The director or

3:45:37their designate shall establish policies

3:45:39and procedures for the location and

3:45:41placement of APCs, etc.

3:45:45[clears throat]

3:45:47>> Discussion. I think that's more clear.

3:45:49>> Okay.

3:45:50>> All right. All in favor of this

3:45:51amendment say I.

3:45:52>> I. Any opposed? Any [snorts] abstaining?

3:45:56That correction passes. We're back to

3:45:58the item now as amended. Alder

3:46:00Rodriguez.

3:46:00>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, again,

3:46:03according to the director, Miss Simpson,

3:46:06she was addressing again issues and

3:46:09concerns raised by residents and the

3:46:12board of alters and many other people.

3:46:15Um I think this is a great opportunity

3:46:17for a next step in enforcement um by

3:46:22placing these safety sticks not just

3:46:26anywhere and these sticks will not be

3:46:30they may be fixed but they're also

3:46:33temporary or they can be mobile they can

3:46:35be moved and I think it's significant

3:46:39because

3:46:40um by placing these sticks in areas

3:46:43where individ individuals are illegally

3:46:46parking, creating danger and seriously

3:46:50putting in jeopardy the safety of

3:46:53others. I have some locations in my ward

3:46:58that literally that is happening and I

3:47:01think as a if we can utilize these

3:47:04safety sticks to as um our our chair uh

3:47:10Morrison has indicated to create some

3:47:14form of awareness and teaching

3:47:17not necessarily to penalize but to

3:47:19correct those actions so as to protect

3:47:22everyone around these areas that are so

3:47:25important to us and and so many people

3:47:28travel come and go in those particular

3:47:31areas. I think this is a good a good um

3:47:35next step in enforcement. Thank you, Mr.

3:47:38Chair.

3:47:39>> Thank you, Al Rodriguez. Any further

3:47:41discussion on this item? I'll just say

3:47:43quickly, I am also in favor of this. Our

3:47:48our driving, our parking,

3:47:51it is out of control.

3:47:52>> Mhm.

3:47:54And uh I think if we had a larger

3:47:57traffic unit then maybe this would not

3:48:00be necessary because we would use our

3:48:03police on hand. But uh we're dealing

3:48:06with a slight crime problem

3:48:08>> also. And so we need our police to

3:48:11handle other things rather than spending

3:48:1420 minutes at a car writing a ticket and

3:48:16looking up the code and figuring out how

3:48:18that is as we're waiting for the state

3:48:19to automate tickets still which will

3:48:21make that process faster. But until

3:48:23then, this uh seems like a a good

3:48:27solution. Um and we'll say in discussion

3:48:31or I'll say in discussion, we can all

3:48:33say in discussion on the floor that it

3:48:34is the intent also

3:48:37uh should this be passed um at the full

3:48:40board. It is the intent to bring TTMP

3:48:45back

3:48:46um to hear what streets they are

3:48:48recommending

3:48:50um for us to also hear whether it's we

3:48:54can ask whether it would be this

3:48:55committee or maybe even public safety

3:48:57might be might be um the more

3:48:59appropriate committee for that to be

3:49:01heard but [clears throat and snorts]

3:49:02anyway we would like to know where these

3:49:04sticks are going to be um implemented so

3:49:06I think that's important uh okay I see a

3:49:09hand waving Did you have

3:49:11>> you know just one more thing Mr. If I

3:49:13may, and I just want to say that um

3:49:15regarding the concerns of the

3:49:17legislative history on the record is

3:49:18clear um that I and I I regret there's

3:49:21remiss in not remembering but I've read

3:49:23this before that the definition of

3:49:25recorded image

3:49:27on uh it's definitions B number six

3:49:31refers to I want the record to be clear

3:49:33a photographic or digital image or video

3:49:36that depicts the parking violation the

3:49:39front or rear of the vehicle and any

3:49:40other pert information to establish the

3:49:43parking valation occurred which is what

3:49:45we were talking about and we were

3:49:47concerned about and to also let my

3:49:49colleagues know and I think this um it's

3:49:51excellent in subsection G

3:49:55that the citation shall contain the

3:49:57following it refers to number six a copy

3:50:01of the recorded image of the parking

3:50:03violation and thank you to whoever

3:50:05drafted this to um work on my concern um

3:50:09it states here and I I thank you for

3:50:11this the city shall use all reasonable

3:50:13means not to show identifiable image of

3:50:17any occupants of the motor vehicle. So I

3:50:19think that our statute that's drafted um

3:50:22contains a respect for the privacy

3:50:24concerns and I regret that I didn't see

3:50:26that before and the labored um an

3:50:28unnecessary amendment.

3:50:29>> It wasn't necessary. This is what we do.

3:50:31>> I want for the record to be clear that

3:50:32it looks it looks fabulous as it I want

3:50:34to just be clear for the recording that

3:50:37we are protecting privacy. We are

3:50:39concerned about people's privacy and

3:50:42that the statute intends to protect that

3:50:44important right.

3:50:45>> Y

3:50:46>> so thank you Mr.

3:50:47>> Although this is what we do at the table

3:50:49and so there's nothing wrong with having

3:50:50that discussion and going through it and

3:50:52making sure that we're dotting all the

3:50:53eyes and crossing all the tees. I

3:50:55appreciate the director was also very

3:50:57clear um in her presentation about what

3:51:00this uh what the video would capture. So

3:51:03appreciate your [clears throat] work on

3:51:04this and making sure that we're moving

3:51:06in the right direction. Uh any further

3:51:08discussion on this item?

3:51:11Seeing none, all in favor say I. I.

3:51:14>> Any opposed? Any abstaining? It will

3:51:16receive a favorable recommendation to

3:51:18the board. We have one more to go. Is

3:51:21there a motion? [clears throat]

3:51:22>> Mr. Chair,

3:51:23>> Madam Vice Chair,

3:51:25>> I um move item three.

3:51:28>> Second. Moved and seconded. Discussion.

3:51:32Madam vice chair. Um so I am in support

3:51:37of this ordinance as it definitely puts

3:51:41um you know it helps our city, it helps

3:51:44our um policing personnel um to be able

3:51:48to control um these large crowds as

3:51:53testified of young people drinking and

3:51:57um things of that sort. And so this is

3:51:59just um you know this is a college town

3:52:02and as you said people come from all

3:52:04over the state just [clears throat] to

3:52:06come to live in New Haven but live in

3:52:08New Haven has a lot going on and so as a

3:52:11young person yeah you'll travel and so

3:52:14we we know that and so we definitely

3:52:17need to put things in place that um will

3:52:21keep folks safe because that's what it's

3:52:23about us not um putting um children in

3:52:27the situ situation where um they can

3:52:29possibly drink and drive and get hurt.

3:52:33And so I do um support this um ordinance

3:52:38um as um presented. Thank you.

3:52:40>> Thank you, Madam Vice Chair M. Um Mad

3:52:43Alder Theodore.

3:52:46>> I will also speak in strong support of

3:52:48this ordinance. I have one of the four

3:52:50major problem nightclubs we've been

3:52:52discussing in my ward. Um, and Alder Kim

3:52:55and I have been talking about juice bars

3:52:57pretty much every day since we started

3:52:59this past winter. And this is what we as

3:53:03a city can do. And I think the zoning

3:53:06piece plus this will completely

3:53:09transform what's going on. Things have

3:53:11already gotten better with the

3:53:12remrances. Um, but this this really will

3:53:17be so impactful. Um, I think fewer

3:53:21people will wake up with throw up in

3:53:23their apartment lobby or won't have to

3:53:25go to bed at 3:00 a.m. or, you know, I

3:53:27have residents who some nights, like on

3:53:30the night of Halloween, they might get a

3:53:31hotel outside of town because they know

3:53:32it will be so so chaotic. Um, I want to

3:53:36speak a little bit to the process of how

3:53:37this was done. There were so many

3:53:39stakeholders in the room and I'm

3:53:40grateful to the city for allowing that.

3:53:42Um there were multiple meetings over the

3:53:45summer really working through all of

3:53:47these details, settling on that 20 down

3:53:49to 10 year mark thinking about um

3:53:53thinking about how we are going to

3:53:55affect the good actors. And I I really

3:53:57think we were precise and thorough. Um

3:54:01Captain McDermott touched on this. This

3:54:03is not what we want New Haven to be

3:54:04known for. And unfortunately this is one

3:54:07of the things we are known for statewide

3:54:09right now. There's a reason why

3:54:11Representative Pillo was like the

3:54:13leading championship champion for this

3:54:15up in Hartford because like this is

3:54:16really a New Haven challenge and we as

3:54:20the New Haven City Council, this is like

3:54:22our responsibility and so I'm really

3:54:24excited. I'm grateful to you all for

3:54:25listening. Um and I hope you'll support

3:54:27it. It's about keeping kids safe, our

3:54:31downtown residents happy, our

3:54:34neighborhood thriving. Um yeah, thank

3:54:36you.

3:54:38>> Thank you. Uh, Rodriguez.

3:54:41>> Yes. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um,

3:54:44personally, I wish we could do away with

3:54:47juice bars. Um, we they're creating an

3:54:52opportunity [cough]

3:54:53for [clears throat]

3:54:54illegal activity,

3:54:56putting not only the young people in

3:54:59harm's way, but all others around them.

3:55:04Um, I am in support of this um of these

3:55:08changes and the ordinance

3:55:10and I think that that this will

3:55:13literally um assist in keeping our young

3:55:17people safe. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:55:20>> Thank you, Alder Rodriguez. Any further

3:55:22discussion?

3:55:24Alder Rodriguez.

3:55:25>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm also in

3:55:27support of this, but I I I do want to

3:55:29say that this is going to assist us

3:55:32throughout the whole city because a lot

3:55:34of times when individuals leave from

3:55:37these establishments that are in

3:55:39downtown, they are actually coming into

3:55:43other communities. And so that places

3:55:46not just the youth that come downtown,

3:55:49but those residents in all

3:55:52[clears throat] our wards in harm's way.

3:55:54When you have a driver, whether young or

3:55:57old, behind the wheel, that has

3:56:02consumed

3:56:04lots of alcohol without those folks in

3:56:08the bar air area, um these owners, you

3:56:12know, holding

3:56:14not not uh keeping the young or old

3:56:20awaiting for a ride. So again, I'm in

3:56:23support of this. I know it's late, but

3:56:26this assists us throughout the whole the

3:56:29whole city. I thank Alder Kim and Alder

3:56:32Theodore. Um and I too gave testimony

3:56:35and the gentleman who was here um that

3:56:38day. He gave testimony up for the in the

3:56:42state. Um he offered the police and many

3:56:46residents to come and sit by his window.

3:56:49He faces one of those bars and he sees

3:56:53it all at night seeing how folks are

3:56:56sprawled out in the sidewalk. So, I'm in

3:56:58support of this because this is going to

3:57:03make an impact throughout our city.

3:57:06[snorts]

3:57:06>> Thank you.

3:57:07>> Thank [clears throat] you, Mr. Chair.

3:57:09>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to speak

3:57:11in favor of this item and I commend

3:57:13everybody who worked on this, certainly

3:57:15our colleagues and the city staff and

3:57:17the residents. Uh it's a big deal. I'll

3:57:19just note for the record that the C city

3:57:21plan commission gave a favorable

3:57:22referral on this item. Also on the prior

3:57:24two items, I neglected to say that

3:57:26before. I think it's prudent to include

3:57:29a severability clause in this ordinance

3:57:32language so that if for some reason some

3:57:34portion of the ordinance were thrown out

3:57:38by a court, the rest of it would be made

3:57:40in effect. There's multiple

3:57:43ways that the teeth's enforcement

3:57:46mechanisms are being strengthened here.

3:57:48And we hopefully all of them will

3:57:49survive, but we want we don't want the

3:57:52one to get thrown out and all the rest

3:57:54of them to be thrown out with it. So I

3:57:56think that's [snorts] a really good

3:57:57conclusion. And I just want to say uh

3:58:00that my prior nitpicking remark about

3:58:03capitalization of departments actually

3:58:04applies to this one. So when we do our

3:58:07usual review of all the finer points,

3:58:09that's something just to pay attention

3:58:11to but it's a very good thing and uh in

3:58:14favor of it Mr. Chair. Thank you. Thank

3:58:16you all the marks and before we go to

3:58:18all the marks is there not a civil there

3:58:20is there was

3:58:21>> there is all right um all the marks

3:58:25>> so just again I'm in full support and I

3:58:27just as we're um acknowledging and

3:58:29thanking people I just want to

3:58:30especially acknowledge and thank theor

3:58:32um who in the course of the summer doing

3:58:34these meetings I think

3:58:36age but notwithstanding that um has the

3:58:38the maturity and the the leadership um

3:58:41capacity to to really um identify this

3:58:44issue and to work hard on it and um the

3:58:46other colleagues such as Alder Kim. So I

3:58:47just want to thank him for for his

3:58:49leadership with us. Thank you, Mr.

3:58:52>> Thank you. Um I'll just comment I'm also

3:58:54in favor of this. We thank older Kim,

3:58:56Alder Theodore, the CEO's office, the

3:58:59mayor's office, the administration who

3:59:01works with the state delegation to get

3:59:02this done. Um I think this is just a

3:59:05real small piece in getting

3:59:08a hold or getting back a hold of our

3:59:11city. Mhm. Mhm.

3:59:13>> Um and so these small steps are very

3:59:15important. [laughter] Uh

3:59:19uh very important so that we don't lose

3:59:21control of the city. There are still

3:59:24hundreds of young people downtown. M

3:59:28>> um I deliberately go downtown

3:59:32>> meta which is delicious [laughter]

3:59:37and um and I always order to

3:59:40[clears throat] um Insomnia and so and

3:59:42I'm there late um see my buddies here

3:59:45we're going to go down time after this

3:59:47let's take a walk around [laughter]

3:59:48>> but just to see what's going on in one

3:59:51of the busiest and one of the the hot

3:59:53spots of our city

3:59:55>> I can't believe the hundreds of young

3:59:58people that are just aimlessly walking

4:00:00around.

4:00:02And so this this is a good um start,

4:00:08but there's other pieces that we need.

4:00:10Now we have to find [clears throat]

4:00:11something for our youth to do.

4:00:13>> Yes.

4:00:14>> Um

4:00:16at night, we're going to have to figure

4:00:18this out. And so I'm appreciative of

4:00:21this and thank you for the work that um

4:00:24that you've that our new orders have

4:00:26done. They've come in and they've taken

4:00:28this by the by the reigns and have

4:00:30gotten it done. And so um I'm in favor

4:00:34of giving this a favorable

4:00:35recommendation to the full board and uh

4:00:37hopefully we'll get this through. Uh so

4:00:39all those in favor say I.

4:00:41>> I. Any opposed? Any abstaining? They

4:00:44will be given a favorable recommendation

4:00:46to the board. Madame vice chair. Mr. um

4:00:49chair, I make a motion that we adjourn.

4:00:51>> Second.

4:00:53>> Been moved and second. Any discussion on

4:00:55adjourning? Seeing none, all those in

4:00:56favor say I. Any opposed? Any

4:00:59abstaining?

4:01:00>> We are returned. Have a good night.

4:01:02Thank you for your [laughter]

4:01:13[laughter]

4:01:14>> No,

4:01:16I [clears throat] started.

4:01:17>> Oh.

4:01:28We can't find nothing.

4:01:34>> Let's call let's call their parents.

4:01:36[laughter]

4:01:38>> My god.

4:01:41>> 14.

4:01:43So,

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