2026-11-05 - Civil Service Commission

Oh, no. I unmuted us on the um

boomerang thing.

Okay.

And streaming live on YouTube. Okay,

we're good.

>> All right. You ready?

>> We're ready.

>> We're ready.

>> All right. So

our meeting's going to be called to

order for the Lakewood Civil Service

Commission uh

meeting today

for November and

present

Wow.

>> Not your meeting anymore.

>> I think the YouTube needs to be muted.

>> There's a little delay and

>> Yeah, that's a delay.

>> You don't even have to talk.

>> [laughter]

>> Done.

>> Hey, they're talking for you.

>> If you go into the screen where it's

actually showing, there'll probably be a

volume option in there.

And we can probably

>> So we officially called the order when I

called the order again.

>> Okay.

Testing, testing.

>> Sounds great.

>> Okay, much quieter.

>> Oh, there we go.

Give me up there.

All right. So our meeting is going to be

called to order

for the Lakewood Civil Service

Commission meeting meeting for the month

of November

2026.

And with us today for roll call,

myself, a commissioner,

a commissioner on the end

here, and a commissioner.

Our city attorney is with us today.

She's not built in the room right now,

but [name] is with us today.

HR analyst [name]

and

HR director, chief of civil service

examiner [name].

Police sergeant [name]

and

acting interim police interim police

chief

[name]. So

we're all here for today and

and we'll be moving on to our

first thing first item of Oh, actually

we have a public comment

from October 23rd. Is that right?

>> Thanks, [name].

>> So on our first item here on the after

the call to order

the public comment October 23rd, 2026

email submission

a public name redaction.

I'm going to speak to that.

>> Do you have the actual actual email do

you want to summarize?

>> Summarize.

>> Okay, so we did get feedback on our

change of our process of how we

are no longer putting disqualification

names in the public records, but we're

referencing using a candidate ID number.

Um, we got positive feedback from making

that change as well as somebody who was

a former

applicant who had been disqualified

requesting to have their records that

were posted um updated to use the

candidate ID number. So we worked with

legal and confirmed that is something

that we can do. So the HR team is going

to be working on going backwards to um

replace some of those records with

candidate ID numbers versus names.

>> And I want to be clear, if somebody

pulled something off the site or

something if that name had been in there

previously, people have the name because

of the way we were doing it. But going

forward it will be a number.

>> Right. And recordings and stuff, we are

not going to

redact any sort of former recordings,

but as far as the posted documents, um

like we can make those updates. So that

was the request. We were able to to

grant the request and are working on

kind of that retroactive

patient.

>> Good.

Thank you.

It's the first time I've seen a public

comment on here in a since I've been

here.

Okay, that's good though. Somebody's

watching.

Um,

next uh we'll be looking for our our at

our minutes

and uh from October.

Everybody had an opportunity to look at

those minutes and we have a motion.

>> Yeah, I move to approve them uh just as

error of my last name. That's all. It's

an E.

>> Got your name?

>> E. [name].

>> Second.

>> All right. So

with the adjustment.

>> I was like your name was wrong too.

>> [laughter]

>> We're batting zero.

[laughter]

All right, it's been moved and seconded

to approve the uh minutes uh from

October 1st. All those in approval say

aye.

>> Aye.

>> None opposed.

Moving on.

All right, so we are moving down to our

unfinished business of today

is our introduction of our interim

police chief.

[The interim police chief introduces himself and describes his law enforcement career and ties to the community; personal and family details omitted.]

>> I officially would like to thank you for

being here and taking this job

>> Thank you.

>> being here with our city.

>> Yeah,

I'm excited to be here.

>> Again we all thank you for for being

coming on board and

looking forward to you know what you're

serving the community here.

If there's one thing about Lakewood that

you have to say hey this is why I love

Lakewood what would it be?

>> One thing why

so one of the biggest things

two things

it's

when I left the county and went to Fife

super awkward super cool opportunity

but truly the one thing that I missed

was the the the level of community

right?

Fife's a unique community because where

most of it's all commercial

and so I missed

like the community events there was only

like one or two main events in the city

of Fife

so when one of the

truly one of the things that even drew

me to the city of Lakewood

back in 2010 was the community

and then on top of that

it's a unique diverse community as well

which I love right? So that's that's

what draws me to the city of Lakewood is

the the

the bigness that's not even a word

how big the community is as far as like

the population goes we do have

commercial stuff but it's mostly you

know we do have a lot of residential as

But I love the diversity and the melting

pot type

atmosphere of of Lake Linden. It reminds

me of where I grew up.

Grown up on the East Side is nothing but

diversity.

I love it.

[Brief personal conversation about growing up in the area; omitted.]

>> Well, thank you.

>> Yep.

>> Thank you.

>> Good introduction.

Appreciate that.

>> I have one question.

How often do you plan on dropping into

Arby's?

>> As frequently as I can.

Right now it's a a I have a unique

dynamic,

right? I am the permanent assistant

chief,

uh but I'm also filling the role as the

chief. And so my calendar gets full

pretty quick. Um

I don't want to take away from what

[name] already does here,

um but I but I truly am invested in what

we are doing as an agency, so

uh and Civil Service is a big part of

that. So

what I my goal

is to continue to build on

um what the department has already done,

but the trust of the Civil Service

Commission with the department that we

are following the things that we need to

be doing so that there is a bigger trust

between the Civil Service Commission and

us. And so it's versus like, hey, we

want to do this, and you're instead of

going, well, we need to meet talk about

that, we'll get to a point where it's

oh, okay, take care of it, right? It's,

you know, so

that's my goal.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

All right, so next on our unfinished

business looks like uh

CPSM workforce analysis, contract and

project update.

>> We're still waiting to go forward.

>> So we did get an email. I guess I can

take that one All right. I did get an

email from

uh one of the main uh folks that came to

do the CPSM study and uh the study is

complete has been set to the sent to the

publishers and that was earlier in this

week. So we should see it early next

week or early the following week

uh as far as uh

as far as what that looks like. City

manager and I had a a verbal debrief,

but we're

we're anticipating to see what that full

uh written product is at the end of it.

>> And it's not unusual in a situation like

this that we'll take a look at it and if

we feel like they're just missing a

piece, like did you guys not look at

this or how did you take this that way?

And it

some of that stuff out so that the final

report

we feel comfortable that we know what

they mean, we know what they're saying,

we know uh that anyone reading it would

read it the same way kind of thing. So

it may take a minute after we get it to

just look at it, digest it, and figure

out if they covered bases.

>> Well, and even talking with CPSM the

what we're what we're going to get

either next week or the following is the

draft.

>> Right.

>> And then the city manager and I can

review it

and we can like just like the city attorney said

that we can

make sure that the things that we need

covered in there are covered as well.

>> Sometimes they'll miss things like well,

our collective bargaining

agreement says this, how do you

anticipate implementing that given the

civil or the collective bargaining

agreement or if they've missed something

about our Civil Service Rules

>> Will the

draft be provided to us or we can wait

till the final prior to it provided to

us for reading it?

>> The final.

>> Yeah, it will be the final review.

>> So we're not they were not expecting to

look at it until December, mid to late

December?

>> I would I would say that is probably

safe, yes.

>> Anything else?

The commission noted that an appeal of a removal from the police eligibility list had been withdrawn, so the scheduled hearing was canceled and no action was needed.

>> All right. No problem with that. Removal

of names

of entry-level police officer

eligibility list.

We only have I'm sorry.

>> Go ahead. I was going to move that we go

into executive session.

>> Yes.

>> Uh looks like we just have two

disqualifications.

So we can complete that in 10 minutes.

>> I have a question prior to going into

We have

is there anything

wrong with us going over all of the

removals or do we have to do them one at

a time?

>> We can go over all the removals at the

same time.

>> Yeah.

>> But we only have removals on the

>> entry level

>> There's only two.

>> The other ones have a reason

>> But yes, as long as

you know you say what the reason is

>> Since we're going to leave, we can just

kind of meet and

>> Sorry, she was asking questions about

the

>> Oh, but we're going to step out.

>> Yeah, we're going to step out.

>> Yeah.

>> We'll go over the

>> Right.

>> And then we have the lateral

>> But they're they're not too complicated.

>> Okay, so we're just going to do the DQs.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, because the other ones

>> What?

>> No problem.

>> I like to take one executive session

myself, so

>> All right. So we will recess into

executive session for 10 minutes?

>> 10 minutes.

>> Pursuant to RCW 42.30.110

1G

Am I wrong here?

>> No, I didn't know whether I we had

properly given you the script on it.

>> Oh, I I I can read.

>> I

>> I

>> I

>> I

>> I think not long ago I was at a wedding.

Funny when you start getting invited to

all these weddings from your former

athletes.

>> Yeah.

>> You're getting old.

>> All right.

>> All right.

I saw

coming back in the order and

I've gone over

Back in open session, a commissioner moved to disqualify one candidate, identified by ID number only, from the entry-level police officer eligibility list; the motion was seconded and carried.

>> That

So the other the other candidates on

this list are withdrawals and hires.

>> All the other candidates on the

entry level. entry level

Okay. And then

we'll move to the lateral.

>> And just making notification that the

two candidates on this list were hired

by another agency.

>> Two candidates hired by another agency

on the lateral list.

All right.

Removal of names on the CSO community

service officer eligibility.

>> The two candidates being removed were

hired.

>> All right.

Not Not thing.

All right. And then the um

certification

of the entry level

police officer eligibility list.

>> I move to certify the entry level police

officer eligibility list.

>> Move it.

>> Second.

>> And seconded.

We have any discussion?

No?

All right.

So all of them in favor of uh certifying

the entry level police officer

eligibility list, say aye. Aye.

And uh moving on to our certification of

the lateral uh level police officer

eligibility list.

>> I move to certify the lateral level of

police officer eligibility list.

Second.

>> And moving the seconded

for the lateral police officer

eligibility list. All those in favor,

say aye. Aye.

So moved. So accepted.

Um

certification of the CSO eligibility

list, the community service officer

eligibility list.

>> I move to certify the community service

officer eligibility list.

Second.

>> Moved and seconded the community service

officer eligibility list. All those in

favor, say aye. Aye.

That's been

unanimously approved.

Now we're done with the new business.

We'll move to the police chief's

staffing report.

>> Do we actually uh

I actually think we have a lot of things

going on. When I get emails saying, hey

chief, like all of our background

investigators are doing backgrounds.

All of our FTOs or PTOs are in the

process of working with folks.

That's actually a really good thing in

my eyes. So we do currently have nine

openings.

And we are

and then on top of that,

we've had discussions in our command

staff meetings about what are we doing

as far as recruiting goes.

So the cool thing is is that when I get

an email last night from one of our

officers who say, hey chief, I had a guy

that came and did a ride along with me

and he's in the pro or he has an

interview set up with a neighboring

agency, but he really wants to work for

the city of Lakewood.

Right? He's already tested. He's already

put his name on our list. We can

actually pull that information and

get him invited. In fact, the HR analyst and I

had that that conversation, get him

invited to the next round of oral

boards,

which are next week. Is that right,

the HR analyst? Next week. So

so as far as our staffing goes, yes, we

are down nine. We do have some folks

that are on modified duty or out on LNI

injuries.

But we are feverishly working in this

game

I almost liken it to the transfer portal

in NCAA football right now.

As far as we got new freshmen coming in.

And then we've got these guys that are

already and who who's looking for the

best fit for them, right? You can be at

the Georgia's, you can be at the

Tacoma's,

but that might not be a good fit. And if

we can attract folks to come over to

Lakewood,

then then we're going to do as much as

we can to do that.

Our biggest advocate and our biggest

recruiters are our own people.

Right? And again, like I said, I got the

email last night

from one of our officers who had nothing

but great things to say about this

candidate that he had a ride along with

him.

But on the flip side of that, he also

had nothing but great things to to

convey to this

this candidate about working in the city

of Lakewood.

And so

that's

So as far Everybody's working,

everything including HR, who's working

probably harder than we are,

because we are refining the process to

help streamline some streamline some

things to get

the process a little bit more in a good

flow from the time they hire with PST

to the time that we have an oral board

to go through the background, to go

through professional testing,

and the day they start or get hired with

the with the police department.

We are unlike any other industry where

I can apply to go work at Costco, which

by the way would probably be where I'm

going to work when I retire because

I probably won't be able to check

receipts because there'd be the backup

going all the way to because I'd

probably be asking about everybody's

stuff.

But I

when you apply there, you get an

interview.

And you start probably within a couple

days.

Unfortunately for us,

it is incumbent upon all the work that

our background units are doing to make

sure that we're just not filling the bus

with people and just filling spots just

to fill spots,

but it's to get the right fit for our

agency. There are some people that we

will I would venture to say that we will

disqualify

that may work out at a different agency

as a police officer.

They're just not a good fit for the city

of Lakewood and for the standards and

expectations that we have here.

And as I get a little bit more

outside of the 120-day window that I've

been here,

there will be more clear expectations

and what we what our standards are, what

our expectations are as far as And we

They're already there that we have a

great department.

But anytime that there's change in

executive leadership, there's always

change in in standards and in

expectations. So

to me, it's not about just the bus, but

it's getting the right people on the

bus.

And so,

I can't say enough good things about

HR

and our background unit,

PTOs, and our just our officers who are

everyday making contact with folks and

doing their own recruiting in their own

way. Now, one of the things that we will

be doing is recruiting is going out to

the public safety testing sites

and having we get an opportunity to get

like I call them elevator conversations

where we can

it's it's our most bang for our buck

when it comes to recruiting because

they're already there taking a test to

become a police officer,

but they didn't necessarily consider

Lakewood because they

weren't 100% sure that we were hiring

or they just had never really talked to

anybody about the police department.

If we could send folks to those testing

sites

and we could say, hey, come to us and

here's all the great things about the

Lakewood Police Department. Here's all

the great things about the Lakewood

community,

then we get that actually will add

qualified candidates to our list as well

that we have an opportunity to

interview.

So,

>> I know officer held that a couple of

years ago was kind of a recruiter

for us.

[clears throat]

But I know with the change in that

they needed

her around as but it it was very

successful to help

So, when I

I go based off of experiences I've had

at other agencies. One of and again one

of the biggest things that we had

success with

was sending people out to the public

safety testing

and our own officers advocated for their

own department.

And I and I would venture to say that

you if you did a straw poll with our

officers,

they'd rather go short than just fill

the slots just to fill slots.

>> Yeah.

>> Right? And because once we fill slots,

it's hard for us, especially if we get

problematic officers or officers who

create challenges for the city or for

the department, it's a little a a bit

more challenging to

send them on their way

than it is for us to correct behavior

or just not start with the problem to

begin with. So

unfortunately right now we don't have

the staffing to have dedicated

recruiters.

But again everybody that wears a

Lakewood patch, drives a Lakewood car

and is out at the Lakewood Town Center,

one of the things you guys will be

seeing is that we're

I don't drink coffee. So coffee with a

cop or coffee with a chief

>> They should start They should start

that. I'm just letting you know.

>> No.

It just seems like un un genuine. So but

I eat chicken wings.

And so I was In fact I got wings

yesterday cuz it was Wingstop Wednesday

at the PD.

It's kind of like Taco Tuesday.

But it was Wingstop Wednesday and I I

was like man what a

Oh you did that. Thank you. So what a

cool thing, right? To like we're going

to cuz there's several places throughout

the city that I know to sell wings and

I'm and I'm a wing connoisseur.

And so we're going to

but those are the kind of things where

we're where we're going to have our

recruiting at. There's a process and out

processing center on JBPM

that a lot of places have. There are

places as far as as San Diego PD that

have their own little kiosk set up there

with a QR code that says scan this, come

work for San Diego PD. Now Lakewood has

a hard time competing with San Diego PD

because it's San Diego.

If I weren't working in Lakewood and my

wife I could convince my wife to move to

San Diego and I could afford to live in

San Diego cuz the city attorney knows how expensive

it is to move one of her daughters down

there.

But I would go to San Diego in a

heartbeat, right? Cuz it's 70 degrees

year round. However,

here we are in Lakewood and we're going

to have that same that same kiosk for a

lot of the folks that get moved here

from JBPM because we have a good

population in the PD

that have all

spent their time whether it's at McCord

or whether it's at Fort Lewis.

They come out and now they're now

they're working for the city of Lakewood

and the Lakewood Police Department. So

>> So does that has that not

>> been in place before?

>> It has, but not as not as a permanent

thing or it has, but it's outdated. So,

our process is getting it updated,

getting it refreshed so that that all of

the information is current. So,

and I don't remember what the name of

the center is called, but it's

Do you remember that?

[name], [name] is the one

working on that cuz he has connections

with whoever is in charge of that out

processing center.

So, that's one of the things that we're

doing. And then just sending our

officers to the public safety testing

sites.

So,

yep.

>> So, that's why we haven't been seeing

you guys at the high schools.

>> That's

>> See you guys for the recruiters out

there all the time. We We haven't seen

you in a little bit. So, capacity.

>> So, so capacity, but we also

also communication.

Right? We have capacity to do community

events.

But the communication piece goes both

ways. We need to do a better job

communicating. Hey, when are these

events? Right? And that's on us.

But then also we established a good

working relationship with the school

district. Cool part is [name] and I

grew up five doors down from each other

in the back in back in the day. He was a

senior, I was a freshman.

And so I actually know Ron is a

childhood friend. So,

we've met a couple times, at least once,

and then I saw him on the football field

cuz I again I officiate high school

football.

And so

increasing communication relationships

is the biggest part of our

recruiting too is a big part of our

recruiting.

>> How do we get the information to give

the high school counselors or whoever

to contact?

>> You could start by me.

That's my contact info. Scan that.

>> Do you have to be You have to be 21 be

21 at the time of hire?

>> You have to be the time You have to be

21 at the time of commissioning.

>> Oh, so you could go through your

training at 20.

>> So, I have I have successfully hired two

20 year olds that have been 20 at the

time they're in the academy, but they

have to be 21 by the time they graduate

from the academy.

>> Okay.

[Chief describes the academy age requirement and hiring of young recruits; personal details omitted.]

>> So we have I don't know if this is on

your your list, November 18th.

>> Mhm.

>> We have uh

a job career job fair over at Clover

Park. Do you know if you guys have

anybody on there? If not, I will have

someone reach out to you, but

>> We don't, but will you will you reach

out?

>> Absolutely. I will have them add you

guys to the list.

>> Yeah, we'll figure it out.

>> See if they're all the time.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you.

>> Anything else, Chief? We good?

>> We good.

>> What's the supposed detective?

>> About four different detectives, Chief.

>> Oh, four different things you took by

surprise.

>> Yeah, no you you you got everything

except for the police detective the last

one.

>> Well, I thought that was for the next

Oh, I guess this is for this Oh, cuz it

was this year. I don't know.

Uh welcome to my very first civil

service meeting. Uh

and you can talk to anybody sitting on

this side of the table. I'm probably a

little bit more unorthodox than Welcome

to the new Chief. Um so the acting

assistant Chief update

um standby for

that. I have had several conversations

in the last two weeks

um with a lot of different people at

different varying levels, whether it's

at the city, whether it's in the

department,

uh they're at positions of rank or

whether they're not ranking of

positions. So I will tell you I am the

permanent assistant chief,

interim chief. As everybody knows,

doing both roles is not sustainable at

this level of the department.

Um so it is very important that uh in

the next I would say that in the next 24

hours I will most likely have an acting

assistant chief

um

but not necessarily ready to announce

any of the details of that.

I talked about three and then the

detective eligibility

list extension. So

um

we just move into have this extended to

the 26 Oh, because it is

I think it's just informational.

>> Yeah.

>> It's

It can't be extended anymore, but it's

just that the register is going to be

coming down.

>> It's expiring in four days, two days.

>> Two days.

>> Third

fourth fifth two days, one day.

Two days.

Two days expiring.

>> It's expiring.

>> [laughter]

>> All right. And we And we are aware of

that, but we have made some personnel

changes to fully stop patrol

um to make sure that in 2027

that we are starting with We have 42

positions to bid in patrol, our patrol

division, which is the ones who handle

911 and everything else.

We are starting the year with 42 people

in those positions.

We have taken positions. We have taken

officers from other areas

to make sure that we're starting the

year with a full patrol division. And

then as we add

positions throughout the year, we will

start replacing them with where we

borrowed them from within the PD. So

um

yeah. So So we will retest

after the first year, we're most likely

retesting for a detective eligibility

list, but there's no need for us to

retest for it right now cuz we just

don't have the capacity to to move

anybody.

And then the the other thing, the

question that came up is there was um I

think that's number

>> I think it might be bleeding into your

report

>> Oh, I'll let you do that.

>> Yeah.

Uh

well, I'm just going to address what you

have. Um and this is part of the

citywide EEO data that we look at. So

part of your packet has our quarter

three hires to show department um

ethnic code, hire date, uh and position

title. So um we have this kind of as a

snapshot um

we have the data that she's going to go

over and for the future we'll work on

kind of how how we can present the the

um

data we get from PST, our data that we

collect in NeoGov, and our data of our

current employees um

you know, that are are not just our our

candidates to create kind of that full

picture of of the candidate pool who

we're engaging with as as candidates and

then who what the the overall makeup of

the

um department looks like.

>> Me?

>> You can go. Yeah.

>> So um first of all, I got to give all

the credit to the HR analyst on this because

this is not something that I would have

created um or

not necessarily had the capacity to

create at this point. Um but what it

does is it breaks down what we're doing

as far as recruiting goes from public

safety testing and who we're

interviewing.

One thing that I do want to talk about

is the the first one we'll talk about is

the gender. If you are not aware, there

is a national movement, a national

initiative I should say, not necessarily

a movement, and it's called 30 by 30.

And what that is is it's the a goal of

trying to reach 30% female officers by

the year 2030.

Um now that's a national initiative, not

necessarily broken down to um saying hey

and it's not required, it's not anything

else, but we recognize as an industry

that we are um that our female officers

uh grossly are under underrepresented

when it comes to uh positions within

police departments. Um so there is that

initiative and again it goes back to

recruiting and it goes back to in

intentional recruiting.

And uh which also goes back to high

schools. It goes back to middle schools.

Truly for me, recruiting and this is

touching on recruiting and also touches

on this too, but um our recruiting

should be starting in the middle

schools, right? And unfortunately, we

don't see the fruits of those labors

until they're to that 18 19 20 year old.

And the reason why I say in middle

school is because there are some

communities where

folks don't understand that first of

all, they're not having positive

experiences at home with the law

enforcement agencies because we don't

just knock on your we don't go door to

unfortunately, we don't go door to door

handing out popsicles and like coupons

for Slurpees at 7-Eleven. Right? We're

coming at times of crisis. We're coming

at negative experiences and so um

depending on what kids are being told at

those younger ages will steer them

directions away from or maybe even

towards a career in law enforcement.

Depends on what their upbringing is.

Um so if we can create positive

experiences for our younger populations

at a younger age, it's always going to

be in the back of their head, but we

have to get down to those younger kids

and say this is an option for you.

Right?

Um growing up in my neighborhood, I

didn't know that being a cop was like we

were all afraid of the school police

department anyway. Um and so it I didn't

know it was an option. My dad was a

federal agent. Um but I truly as I got

into my career,

we can get into all of the different

communities within our community and

say, hey, you know what? This is a good

career. First of all, all you have to

have is a high school diploma because

everybody wants to go to college and

everybody can afford to go to college.

High school diploma and this is what's

this is what has provided for my family

over the years.

Total another story off topic and I

won't even share it in this meeting, but

it's funny and I'll tell you it's one of

my kids made a funny comment to me one

time,

um, about having a dead-end job. And uh,

so um, it it I'll tell you after the

meeting's done. So um, so it's

deliberate, intentional recruiting at a

younger age,

but we're we're also having to do that

now.

Um, and so we're working on that. One of

the cool things that I and and this was

the HR analyst just typed this in. She put it

in, it popped up this chart, and as she

was popping up this pie chart, I also

looked up the 2020 census,

right? Because I was curious,

because I also think it's very important

that our police department represents

the community that we police,

right? When it comes to

um,

like ethnical backgrounds, right? And so

when you pull up the 2020 census, it's

not exact, but it's pretty close

as far as the demographics of our city

and the demographics of who we're

currently recruiting and interviewing

for jobs right now,

right? These percentages are almost

they're pretty close. I'm not and again,

I'm not saying they're they're exact,

but they're pretty close to the

percentages as far as our our white

Caucasian population, our African

American black population, um, Pacific

Islanders, um, you know, all of that. So

which I thought was

and I hadn't hadn't looked at that until

we were talking in a meeting, um, and it

was actually very refreshing. Now I will

tell you if you go back in the history

of the Lakewood Police Department, it

always hasn't been that way,

right?

And I think there are some contributing

factors to that because if you go back

to 2004 when the Lakewood Police

Department was was truly being formed,

we were the the folks that were here and

taking all of there was thousands of

applications that were coming in here.

Have you been here since 2004? I can't

remember.

>> 10.

>> Okay. So in 2004 there was thousands of

applications coming in from all over the

country,

and they were handpicking everybody,

right?

>> Pierce County, right?

>> No, it was everywhere. It was everywhere

because it was a brand they did take a

lot of Pierce County deputies, but there

were a lot of Pierce County deputies

that were like, nope, I'm good at the

county, right? And so

um they were just hand picking things.

And I think what happened was is they

started hand picking because I actually

applied for an agency down in in Arizona

that was doing the same thing. But when

you start hand picking everything, all

of a sudden you look back and go, hey,

everybody looks like the same.

Right? Because it's who's picking. It's

it's just what they know, right? So the

cool part is is our recruiting is now

more our interviewing at least is now

more in line with the demographics of

our city.

>> I will just say by taking a lot Pierce

County we weren't pulling a lot of

university when we did that either.

>> [clears throat]

>> Yeah. So uh and you've been here for a

long the duration of that. Yeah.

A really long She I said 97 days and

then and then the city attorney went up me at the

last budget meeting.

Yes.

>> Oh no, you did that too.

>> She did that while we were sitting in

the meeting which was

>> Oh, I love that.

>> So then and then obviously the second

[Discussion of the states applicants come from, including one former officer on the lateral list; individual details omitted.]

So um but anyway, and then the other

ones are just all the numbers where it's

at. Uh I I'm a visual guy and the the

the pie chart actually works really well

for me. Um if you want to look at it in

the table.

>> That's Colorado.

>> Is that Colorado or is that which one

are we looking at?

>> That's square one.

>> Oh.

>> Sorry.

>> Yeah, I guess it is, right?

>> my position I just say yes, chief.

>> But it is interesting to see that there

are people from outside, but you know.

>> Um so the the challenge

>> that we have is in and as many of you

might know, um, we have a challenge of

recruiting

police officers outside of Washington

State to come back to Washington only

because of the political environment

that we have in Washington State.

I have an opportunity to travel

nationwide to different police events.

Um, and there are a lot of different

things politically

that are passed here in the state of

Washington that people other officers

are like, you guys can't do what in

Washington?

And and I said, you know, it's it's not

an abnormal thing. It's just it's the

rules that we live in in Washington

State and that's how we do police. It's

just different. One

>> you give an example?

>> Uh,

so drugs is one of them. Drugs is a big

one. So I

>> on vacation in Alabama at Auburn. My

daughter's one of my daughters is there.

They had the police guy come up and talk

and he literally said, who here is from

a state where marijuana is legal?

And basically what he's saying is if

your kid's drunk or whatnot, we'll get

them back to their dorm. We're not going

to do anything terrible. He goes

literally quote, you're in the buckle of

the Bible belt. Marijuana is

legal here. And he said, your kid'll get

over it, but they'll have a conviction

and there's nothing I can do about it

here. You You just need to understand

it's not legal. They don't want it to be

legal. They think we're crazy for having

it be legal. I mean, and it's it's such

a cultural difference that when you hear

that they think it's nuts up here, it's

it's not like

I don't even think it's about judging

our state. It's more just like it's so

different.

It's so foreign to anything that they're

doing in these other states.

>> So like right for right now for us for

our our guidelines as far as marijuana

goes, marijuana is classified almost the

same as alcohol.

>> Mhm.

>> Right? So at the time of hire,

when we send you to your medical, you

just cannot test positive for active

THC. We would like to see people like

maybe abandon that like during the

interviewing process, right? But at the

time of hire, as long as it's not

active, if you have carboxy THC in your

system,

I mean, that's a

conversation that we'd have to have, but

but I know carboxyl is just the it's the

metabolized version of of THC.

I know that's I shouldn't No, it's like

after after the THC goes into your body

and your body metabolizes it, it turns

into carboxyl THC. That's the whole DRE

in me like the drug recognition expert.

Way more information I probably need to

share, but like if you have it's

non-active THC essentially. It's already

been metabolized and used. It's still in

there.

Uh but it's still in your system. So

when you talk people talk about having

THC in their system for weeks at a time

or 10 15 20 days after, it's that

carboxyl THC. It's the digested THC

that's already been metabolized.

>> Another example would be a couple of

years ago you might have seen in the

paper about the legislature saying that

the doctors couldn't pursue.

>> Yes.

>> Right.

>> You know, and so things like that there

are states where that just

>> Yeah.

>> But they're different states. They they

are facing different challenges

>> Sure.

>> here.

>> And I And And I would tell you again

like the different examples like I sit

in big rooms with guys that I've from

the South is the South is a different

place to do policing,

right? And And And when they say, man,

that's just But to me I look at it and

say, so who's leading who?

Right? Are we leading the industry as

like actually making the

the changes and that are Now we've had

some changes that I think that went

swayed way in the wrong direction.

However, there are some other things

where you know where we do focus on

empathetic and compassionate policing,

which is you know with our outreach

folks and going and talking to homeless

folks and not necessarily having them up

and taking them to jail because they're

on the sidewalk, right? Now we

we need to spend some time and find some

solutions for that.

But it's just again it's just different

when

when we have folks from other states.

One of the things that we do we can

attract people to Washington state is

our rate of pay.

Right? So when they look and go, oh, you

know what? Well, but the what about the

cost of living is so much more

expensive. I was like, okay, so the cost

of living in Virginia is like cheaper

than Washington state. think so. We pay

way more than they do in Virginia.

Right? And they just have to Somehow

there's that like that Mason Dixon line

of trying to get west of that, right? Or

the the Mississippi, whatever you want

to say it is, that in the middle of the

country somehow they they have a hard

time coming back over to the west. So um

but we but we do have enough people to

live in Washington state. Our

recruitment list I think right now we're

getting anywhere from 10 to 20 people's

names added to our list at Public Safety

Testing every single week. So it's not

like we have a a shortage of people who

are applying to the city of Lakewood

or that they're sending their testing

scores to city of Lakewood.

Um

so

uh I think that's the update on on all

of that

unless you guys have further questions

on on any of those cuz I think that we

are heading in the right direction

and we are we are doing

These guys are doing amazing work, these

three, and I just get to sit and talk

about it. Probably talk too much about

it.

Um but it is something I'm very

passionate about.

Um and I truly feel that our police

officers

um do need to represent

the demographic of our city as well.

>> I think your passion comes through uh

because of how much you talk.

>> You guys are like this is the longest

civil service meeting we've ever had.

>> No, it's not.

>> You're like wait a second. Did I say how

often you're going to come to these

>> No, no, no. Not at all.

Not at all. I think to

to to that end I appreciate it because

it simplifies and you know we have a

clearer understanding of where you stand

on these things. So that that's

appreciative.

Appreciative.

And I did I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> No, no, no. Go ahead.

No, I said of course I'm the one Well it

was with a question but I'll let you

finish.

>> Oh. No, I I was at questions. I just

process. Um the uh the only other

question I have for, actually, I think

all all you guys are doing. Um,

there's another, is one of the captains

supposed to be here normally?

>> Typically it's, well, [name] is

who I work for uh directly. He's in a,

he's got an interview he's doing right

now.

>> No problem, but it's been a few months.

So so my question is,

is that part of the process where he

needs to be within this

or do are we can we go with just you for

this?

>> You can, I'm okay with covering it

unless you guys feel a need to talk

about it.

>> I'm not talking to Chief, too.

>> Yeah yeah, I I don't mind uh covering

for him when he's not able to be here.

In reality, he

[clears throat] he doesn't have as much

of a hand in the process as I do. Um, he

just got he's he's there as a as a

guidance, but I I tend to

I tend to do most of the

>> from the officer to chief,

sergeants can do exactly what uh

sergeants already do.

Right? And and captain captain has some

captain responsibilities.

>> Mhm.

>> And most of the time this is a this is

perfect for sergeant level stuff unless

>> That's fine. I just wanted to why why is

captain's name on here to be to be here.

>> Good question.

>> Uh today today he did, there was a last

minute scheduling of a meeting that he

had to take care of.

>> Yeah, there's nothing against him

either.

>> Yep yep yep yep

yep yep.

>> So my question is um coming back to your

statement regarding demographics, that

was one of the comments and questions

that I've been bringing up. So what is

your, I I think I heard you say that

you're comfortable with where it's at.

So and I'm looking at this and I'm I'm

I'm wondering what are the actual

numbers

because I'm not

I mean I'm I can see it, but it's not

giving me actual numbers unless, I mean

I'm even looking back here.

>> Just said just percentages?

>> Yeah, so

um

[Chief gives general examples of recent and in-process hires from varied backgrounds; names and personal details omitted.]

>> So my question is

what are your expectations? Are you

comfortable with this or do you have a

goal that you would like to reach uh, in

regards to the demographics?

>> I would my goal is that when when

someone does the if someone were to pull

our our staffing, our current staffing,

this is our recruiting, this is our

interviewing,

right? This reflects our department.

>> Okay.

>> And that our department

as best as we can

can reflect the demographics of our

city. And that and the only the only way

I can do that is from the census.

But the unfortunate thing is is that

this is great because these are the

people that are applying, these are the

people that we're interviewing.

At the end of the day, the unfortunate

thing is is that the ones that past

backgrounds

and the ones that we hire

that's where it comes a little bit

tougher

because we still have to

we have to make sure that we're still

getting the right people.

>> Quality, absolutely.

>> Yep.

>> So the recruiting is passing what you're

wanting, but the actual um, employee

is not

>> Got to dig deeper on that so that we're

so we're so that we are better where

we're at so that our actual hiring is

close to this as well.

>> We saw the numbers previously and

>> numbers didn't reflect. So that's why I

was curious

>> Cuz I saw the number I saw those

numbers.

>> but this is again they're from two

different places, correct?

>> Yep.

>> Right. So

so the actual

>> Right. So we need that continuity of

who were who's our overall pool, who's

applying, who are moving through our

process, and what the fallout and

attrition is of the different

>> And and and one of the biggest

challenges in that category

is when you go to gender.

>> Absolutely.

>> Right? Because when you have a male

dominant industry

and in trying to encourage females to

apply

some of them are like, ah, I don't know

if that's what I want to tackle in life,

right? So we can only interview who we

interview.

I think this is a little bit more

controllable.

This but again a lot of that stuff

is when we start having those the more

we build relationships with our

community

>> There you go.

>> the the

this stuff just falls into place because

people are excited to come to the police

department. They're they're like, man, I

want to do what that guy does or I want

to do what that girl does. And I and and

I honestly like I've been at the last

couple like huge community events. I've

seen more little girls that are like,

I'm going to be a police officer. And

[Chief mentions introducing young visitors at community events to a female SWAT officer; name omitted.]

>> Well, because of what the chief is

doing, I think we can also figure out

how does this change to who we hire? Is

it anything we can control for? Like as

we're going to schools, can we say to

kids, hey, here are things you can do

even now to make sure that you're a

great candidate when you come through?

Is it

>> Absolutely.

>> You know, is it physical testing? Is it

not understanding um how the oral

board's going to go? What is the thing

that's tripping some of those

candidates?

>> But it's also life choices that because

there are some life choices that will

unfortunately automatically disqualify

by you for a while.

>> But how great to tell them at an early

age. Here's another reason not to do

this because that's a door that's going

to close to you and we actually do look

at that when we hire. So sort of hearing

that.

>> And and one of the things that I

appreciate about the civil service is

that they do it is a checks and balances

because we can see this all day long

and then we say well we're just going to

like on this half of the circle what all

of a sudden there's all these

disqualifications from like our diverse

community, right? And it's like

well that doesn't make any sense.

Well yeah you're right it doesn't,

right? And all of a sudden this 54

becomes like 72 because I think at one

point back in 2004 was close to that.

Um

but I also am not willing to modify our

standards and expectations of new hires

>> Right.

>> just to have a pie graph look a certain

way.

Does that make sense?

>> Absolutely and I I I hope that by my

questions that does not

>> No not at all. I just

[A commissioner says the same service expectations apply to every officer and resident; personal details omitted.]

and every

person that works and lives in the city

of Lakeland is the same. I do not and I

do not expect and I do not want the

level of service

to get

um

er

eroded because of an expectation. We can

get to both but we just have to make

sure we don't lose sight

>> Right.

>> of what we're trying to get to.

>> That's why we're here.

>> to both.

>> That's why we're here.

>> It's called

intentional

recruiting.

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah.

>> Are we okay with time or are we good?

>> you.

Do we have anyone under after this room?

Okay.

>> Okay about somebody who's coming in

that's why

>> Well, that was

yeah, the

What time

[laughter]

It doesn't matter.

>> No, we're good. We're good.

We're good.

>> Okay. I know on the agenda I saw 9:30 to

11:30and I know I have a hard 11:30

stop, so y'all are good. Thank you.

>> I'm done talking unless anybody got more

questions.

>> This is good. Again, I think the the

training that that we got that's my

first training that I I've been through

at all since being here and I the city attorney

pointed me to the RCW's and those kind

of things and that was good.

But

I appreciate the city paying for that

and we will

discuss that maybe a little bit next

month about you know what we get out of

that.

And and I I think it should be for

anybody that's coming in to the

commission they should be

that should be mandatory.

But that they that they do that at least

at the beginning.

>> Yeah.

>> I imagine a commissioner's probably been through

that though.

>> No.

>> You have not?

>> That was the first time he's offered it.

>> Oh, well I didn't know that.

But

I think it's it's something that's

beneficial.

>> Like I said the expectations were I mean

mind blowing and I'm like wait a minute.

Maybe that's not something we do here in

Washington. [laughter]

>> So that's been going on for some time?

>> Yeah, it's an annual event and

>> And so why are we just hearing about it?

>> I don't know what to tell you on that

one. I really don't. I I have gone

occasionally over the years and I don't

know

why it wouldn't have been recommended or

why I didn't recommend it to you or

>> Well, we appreciate it at this point for

sure but

Yeah.

All right. Anything else?

This meeting is adjourned.

>> Oh, I did have one. No, no, no. No, no,

no. I want to make sure [name].

>> Oh,

just the only announcement I have is

city manager shared they're going to be

doing a permanent police chief

recruitment process after the new year.

So

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, Yeah. have one. I want to make

sure that have a point of clarification.

Sorry, I'm a numbers person.

On the community service officer

eligibility list, you marked seven, but

there are only six names on here. So

>> I removed I moved the the higher for why

I didn't

>> Because it said four males and three

females. So which which one was it?

>> So it would be the female.

It's the female because

>> Huh?

>> We have the female.

>> We have the female.

>> We have the female.

>> All right.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, we hired two officers and CSO on

Monday. So I updated it yesterday all

that. I had to go through their

orientation.

>> So on this, this is the one that's

reflective of So just subtract one from

here on here. Okay.

Just want to make sure

>> Yeah, I'll update it and yeah.

>> It's okay.

>> [laughter and clears throat]

>> I I did a lot this week.

>> No, I bet you did. I bet you did.

There's a lot going on. I think Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you guys very much.