2026-10-27 - City Council

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10:12>> Mhm.

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14:18>> Mhm.

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23:33>> Festersen is absent. Goodwin.

23:35>> Here.

23:36>> Parding.

23:37>> Here.

23:38>> Hug.

23:38>> Here.

23:39>> Melton.

23:39>> Here.

23:40>> Rowe.

23:41>> Here.

23:41>> Mr. President.

23:42>> Here.

23:43Please stand for the Pledge of

23:44Allegiance and remain standing for

23:46opening remarks for by council member

23:48Don Rowe.

23:50>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

23:52United States of America,

23:54and to the republic for which it stands,

23:57one nation under God, indivisible, with

24:00liberty and justice for all.

24:03>> Thank you. You may be seated.

24:05>> [clears throat]

24:07>> Yeah.

24:08>> Sure do.

24:10>> Well, thank you for being here today. Uh

24:11the first thing I wanted to do is

24:13acknowledge a group from Millard South

24:14High School debate team today.

24:17I had an opportunity to meet with them

24:18and just kind of explain how city

24:20council works and what goes on down at

24:22City Hall. So, welcome to the Millard

24:24South debate team. Appreciate you being

24:26here. [applause]

24:30May I Then I promised them that my in my

24:33opening remarks that I would be sure to

24:36encourage everyone to vote a week from

24:38today. November 3rd is the next election

24:42for 2020 [cough] election

24:43[clears throat]

24:44and it's going to be an important uh

24:46ballot for you to be a part. You You

24:47need to make your voice heard and you

24:49can do it on Tuesday.

24:51You know, there's a lot of There's a

24:53There's federal offices, there are

24:54county offices, state state legislators

24:57that are up for election,

24:59school board members, uh utility

25:01members. Uh it's an important election

25:03and you have an opportunity to make your

25:05voice heard. There are about 370,000

25:08registered voters in

25:10Douglas County

25:11and we need to have you turn out and

25:13vote. It's your opportunity and it's an

25:15important

25:16>> [clears throat]

25:16>> right that you have. So, I encourage you

25:19November 3rd, be here to vote. And if

25:21you want to vote early, get it done

25:22because you're running out of time.

25:25Thank you.

25:26>> An affidavit of publication is on file

25:28and a current copy of the open meeting

25:30act is posted in white binder on the

25:31east wall of legislative chambers.

25:33>> Good afternoon. Welcome to this meeting

25:35of the Omaha City Council. As a courtesy

25:38to those in attendance and to facilitate

25:40the conduct of our business,

25:42we ask that you please silence or turn

25:44off all electronic devices.

25:47A reminder that you will have 3 minutes

25:49to speak on an agenda item. We ask that

25:52you please stay on topic.

25:54For those not providing in-person

25:56testimony and would like your comments

25:58entered into the public record, you can

26:00email the city clerk's office at

26:02[email protected].

26:06Council members receive these emails and

26:07we read them.

26:09Finally, council members may ask members

26:12of the audience back up for clarifying

26:14questions but not for extra time to

26:17speak.

26:18I would also like to remind council

26:20members to speak clearly into their

26:21microphones so audience members in

26:24attendance and at home can hear. And if

26:27looks like we got a lot of people here

26:28today, if you're coming up,

26:30get between the two mics and make sure

26:32you're speaking between them so

26:34everybody at home and attendance here

26:36can hear you clearly as well. Thank you.

26:40We now have a proclamation by Council

26:42Member Lavanya Goodwin.

26:45>> Thank you, Mr. President.

26:46If we can have the Worthingtons, please

26:49come up to the podium.

26:55This is a proclamation that should touch

26:57all of our hearts.

26:59Uh Ramaya Worthington in 2023 lost her

27:03life when she was

27:05neglected in a daycare van.

27:08Um and it really is just to not only

27:11amplify her life,

27:14um but also to um

27:18acknowledge that November 2026 is Ramaya

27:22Worthington Child Vehicle Vehicle Safety

27:24and Protect- Protection Month.

27:27Um so I'll read the proclamation, allow

27:30for the family to have a few words, and

27:32then we'll take a quick photo.

27:35Whereas protecting our children is our

27:38highest duty, requiring every parent,

27:42caregiver, leader, and community member

27:45to remain alert and take immediate

27:48action if they notice a child left

27:50unattended in a vehicle. And

27:53whereas on an extremely hot day in Omaha

27:57in 2023,

27:591-year-old Ramaya Worthington tragically

28:02lost her life after being left inside a

28:05daycare van for approximately 8 hours.

28:09A tragedy that exemplifies the

28:11catastrophic risk of leaving children

28:13unattended in vehicles. And

28:16whereas young children cannot protect or

28:18speak up for themselves,

28:20caregivers and transportation providers

28:23must strictly enforce loading,

28:25unloading, head count, and vehicle check

28:28protocols to prevent vehicular heat

28:30stroke and fatal abandonment. And

28:33whereas

28:35tragic incidents involving unattended

28:37children can be prevented through

28:39continuous public education,

28:42heightened community awareness,

28:44established routine checks, clear

28:47safeguards, and institutional

28:48accountability, and whereas Ramaya was

28:52far more than the tragic circumstances

28:54of her passing,

28:56she was a cherished daughter,

28:58a beloved sister, and a beautiful little

29:01girl whose life mattered deeply and

29:04whose memory continues to be lovingly

29:06carried forward by her mother and

29:09father, Cena and Rion, by her four

29:12sisters, her brother, and her extended

29:14family, and whereas by honoring Ramaya's

29:17memory

29:18and engaging in open community dialogue

29:20and educational initiatives can commit

29:24we can commit as a city to strengthening

29:26protective safeguards, refining

29:28policies, and enforcing the absolute

29:31duty of care required to protect every

29:34child in our community. Now, therefore,

29:38we, the City Council of Omaha, do hereby

29:41proclaim November 2026 as Ramaya

29:44Worthington Child Vehicle Safety and

29:46Protection Month and call upon all

29:49individuals to practice child safety and

29:52accountability

29:53when transporting children

29:55and work together to ensure that no

29:57child is ever left behind or unattended

29:59in a vehicle so that no family ever

30:01experiences such a heartbreaking loss

30:04again.

30:05In witness whereof, we have set our

30:07hands and caused the seal of the city of

30:09Omaha to be affixed this 27th day of

30:12October, 2026.

30:15And now, if the family would like to

30:17have a few words in remembrance of

30:19Ramaya.

30:21>> [snorts]

30:22>> I just want to say thank you so much.

30:24It's been 3 years since she's been gone.

30:28And I just this right here just shows

30:30how much she is loved and cared for. And

30:33also, this right here gives it a chance

30:35that there's no other kid left behind.

30:44Thank you.

30:45>> Thank you. And I also wanted to thank

30:47Mr. Sherman Wells for bringing this to

30:50our attention and and helping to

30:52facilitate

30:54just the necessary connection with with

30:56the family. Thank you.

30:59>> Ladies also, if you could, thank you for

31:02coming today. Could you give your name

31:03and address for the record for this

31:05great proclamation in honor today,

31:08please?

31:10>> Sena Worthington

31:12>> Rayan Worthington

31:14>> 1803 Van Camp Ave, Omaha, Nebraska 68108

31:20>> Thank you. Thank you.

31:23>> [snorts]

32:11>> Item six, to consider a Class D liquor

32:13license for Snake Bite Liquor and Smoke

32:15located at 3706 North 90th Street.

32:19>> The public hearing is now open on item

32:21six. Is the applicant here today? Good

32:23afternoon.

32:23>> Yes, uh Steven Ryan from Croker Huck Law

32:26Firm 2120 South 72nd Street, Suite 1200,

32:30and just here on behalf of the

32:32applicant.

32:33>> Thank you. Are there any proponents here

32:35today on item six?

32:38Seeing none, are there any opponents?

32:41Public hearing is closed.

32:45Got a motion and a second. Roll call.

32:47>> Goodwin.

32:48Harding.

32:48>> Yes.

32:49>> Hug.

32:49>> Yes.

32:49>> Melton. Rowe.

32:51>> Yep.

32:51>> Mr. President.

32:52>> I.

32:52>> Motion passed six to zero. Item seven,

32:55an ordinance to rezone property located

32:56at 804 North 143rd Court and 805 North

33:01143rd Plaza from R-4 District and DR

33:04District to R-4 District. Planning Board

33:06and Planning

33:07approval.

33:08>> Public hearing is now open on item

33:10seven. Applicant, good afternoon.

33:11>> Good afternoon. Uh Jeff Anderson, McNeal

33:14Company Builders.

33:16Here for any questions.

33:17>> Can we get your address as well?

33:18>> 4666 South 132nd Street.

33:21>> Thanks.

33:22Are there any proponents here on item

33:24seven?

33:26Seeing none, are there any opponents?

33:29Public hearing is closed.

33:33Motion and a second. Roll call.

33:35>> Goodwin.

33:36Harding.

33:36>> Yes.

33:37>> Hug.

33:37>> Yes.

33:37>> Melton. Rowe. Mr. President.

33:40>> I.

33:40>> Motion passed six to zero.

33:42Item eight, an ordinance to rezone

33:44property located at 6402 North 71st

33:47Street from LO District to CC District.

33:50Planning Board and Planning Department

33:51recommend approval.

33:52>> Public hearing is now open on item

33:54eight. Good afternoon.

33:56>> Hi, my name is Brendan Findley, uh 14710

33:59West Dodge Road. I'm here on behalf of

34:01the applicant and happy to answer any

34:02questions.

34:03>> Thank you. Are there any proponents on

34:06item eight?

34:08Seeing none, are there any opponents?

34:12Public hearing is closed.

34:15Got a motion and a second. Roll call.

34:17>> Goodwin.

34:18Harding.

34:19>> Yes.

34:19>> Hug. Melton. Rowe. Mr. President.

34:22>> I.

34:23>> Motion passed six to zero. Item nine, a

34:25resolution to approve the Puritan

34:27Manufacturing Tax Increment Financing

34:29Redevelopment Project Plan located at

34:311302 Grace Street and amount up to

34:34$423,477.

34:38>> Public hearing is now open on item

34:39number nine. Ms. Hadley, good afternoon.

34:56>> Good afternoon. Bridget Hadley, city

34:58planning.

35:09So, before you is the Puritan

35:12Manufacturing

35:14um

35:15TIF redevelopment project plan.

35:17And it is maybe a little hard to see,

35:19but it is this shaded area here, this

35:22elongated shaded area here.

35:25Um Abbott Drive is here.

35:29Um and

35:3111th Street is here. Grace is there to

35:33just give you some

35:35uh directions and bearings. So, the

35:36proposed redevelopment project

35:39for the Puritan Manufacturing's custom

35:42metal fabricating operations involves

35:45the demolition of an existing

35:47dilapidated warehouse building and the

35:49construction of a new 100-ft by 115-ft

35:53facility in its place to accommodate

35:56modernized operations and workforce

35:58expansion. A major component of the

36:01project also includes vital sanitary

36:04sewer and storm water detention

36:06improvements designed to alleviate

36:08severe flooding and water retention

36:10issues that currently disrupt business

36:12operations and affect the surrounding

36:15public streets during the heavy events.

36:17Um when they presented it to the TIF

36:19committee, they shared some

36:22sites and this is not

36:25even including what happened in

36:26September.

36:28Um I'm sure they uh can maybe give you

36:30more

36:32details about what they experienced in

36:34September, but this this is from

36:36other events maybe earlier this year and

36:39in the past. So, this is what their site

36:42looks like and it has prevented um

36:46workforce from actually entering their

36:48site.

36:52And then

36:57here is another

37:02Okay, I guess that's the same.

37:05How far is it that it's going to go?

37:08Let me turn it this way.

37:10So, the existing

37:13uh building to be replaced is right

37:16here. This is part of the entire Puritan

37:19Manufacturing uh site.

37:21So, the new facility will allow, as I

37:24said, for modernized production capacity

37:26with heavy industrial zoning. The site

37:29will maintain its current industrial

37:31land use, and sufficient existing

37:34parking is available to handle new

37:36improvements and additional jobs. And

37:38they are uh

37:40projecting six new permanent jobs.

37:43>> [clears throat]

37:43>> The project owner is Puritan

37:44Manufacturing Inc., represented by Dave

37:47Waters. The total investment is a little

37:49over 3.6 million. TIF support is um a

37:53little over $423,000.

37:56The project meets the required TIF uh

37:58requirements for TIF, and is an

38:00appropriate land use for the location,

38:02and complies with the goals of the

38:04city's master plan. And with that, um I

38:07ask for your approval.

38:09>> Thank you. Are there any proponents here

38:12wishing to speak on the item nine?

38:18>> [clears throat]

38:18>> Good afternoon. Andrew Willis, um 129130

38:21Pierce Street, Suite 200, uh attorney

38:23for the for Puritan Manufacturing.

38:26Uh again, we probably don't need to add

38:28a whole lot to what you just heard. Um

38:31I sometimes the data you don't want is

38:33there. And as mentioned, in September

38:35was another one of these flooding events

38:37with about a

38:38quarter of a million dollars of damage

38:39and the claims for that. And so, um

38:42obviously, this for Puritan

38:43Manufacturing, it's a $3.6 million

38:45project. Um

38:48but it's

38:49pretty crucial to can the business stay

38:51or does it move? And it's really that

38:53flooding events that continue to happen

38:54and this sanitary sewer improvements

38:56really will not only benefit uh Puritan

38:58but the entire area. Um and so it really

39:00it's a really a positive step and and it

39:03makes the project work and the and that

39:04TIF assistance really does make the

39:06project work. And I'm happy to answer

39:08any questions you guys have.

39:10>> Thank you.

39:11Are there any other proponents here on

39:13item nine?

39:18Seeing none, are there any opponents?

39:22Public hearing is closed. Council member

39:24Hug you're recognized.

39:26>> Thank you, Mr. President. Uh would

39:27somebody from

39:29Puritan come back up, please?

39:37>> Uh I'm Dave Waters, the owner of Puritan

39:39Manufacturing.

39:41Um

39:42uh 10536 Canyon Road, Omaha,

39:4568112.

39:47Uh

39:47>> I

39:48just want to ask you a couple of

39:50questions just

39:51for um

39:52to help me remember.

39:54>> Sure.

39:54>> But

39:55uh if memory serves me correct,

39:56Puritan's been there for quite a long

39:58time.

39:58>> Yes. We're we're very excited. Uh next

40:01year we'll be 100 years old.

40:03So, it was established in 1927.

40:06>> And you've been in in the family all

40:08that time?

40:09>> Uh yeah. Uh so, this will be my third

40:12generation, my son Rob,

40:14will be after me. My my dad bought it

40:161963.

40:18And I've been there for 46 years.

40:21So.

40:22>> Well, to be honest with you,

40:24I was kind of shocked when I seen this

40:25come on the agenda

40:27cuz I kind of like forgot that Puritan

40:29was there. I haven't heard anything

40:30about Puritan in quite a while. But I'm

40:32thrilled you guys are still in business.

40:34I'm thrilled that it's another Omaha

40:36success story. You know,

40:38multi-generational businesses are

40:40founded in Omaha. So, um

40:43I'm I'm proud I'm to support this today,

40:45Mr. President. So, thank you.

40:46>> I appreciate your comments.

40:48>> Thank you. Council Member Goodwin.

40:49You're recognized.

40:51>> Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Waters.

40:55Hi. Just had a few questions for you. I

40:57agree with Council Member Hug that, you

40:59know, it is monumental to be uh

41:02barking upon a hundred years in

41:04business. Um with the destruction or in

41:08demolition of the building, will you

41:10suspend operations? How will that work

41:13in terms of your workflow?

41:14>> Uh well, that's one of the big hurdles

41:16that we've had. It's right in the middle

41:18of our operation.

41:19Uh but we've worked diligently to figure

41:21out how to continue business while we're

41:23doing it. And uh it's it's just a it's a

41:27it's not an easy task, but we're we're

41:29we're accomplishing it with just a lot

41:31of due diligence.

41:32>> Right. So, essentially, those jobs will

41:35remain intact while you work toward the

41:37construction project.

41:39>> Uh yeah, in fact, we we're doing a lot

41:41of work on the streetcar project right

41:43now

41:44for MUD. We make the

41:46the chlorine pump tubes they use for all

41:48the

41:49intersections and things that they have.

41:51OPPD, City of Omaha, we do work for

41:54for all the municipal.

41:57So, yeah, we're and we're not trying not

41:58to miss a lick. So.

42:00>> That's that's awesome to know, and it's

42:02great when we can also support local

42:04businesses in our projects. And so, that

42:06was really the question I had. Um I move

42:09to approve this.

42:11We have a motion.

42:13>> Motion and a second. I see no further

42:15lights. Roll call.

42:16>> Goodwin.

42:17Harding.

42:18>> Yes.

42:18>> Hug.

42:19>> Yes.

42:19>> Melton.

42:20>> Yes.

42:20>> Rowe. Mr. President.

42:21>> Aye.

42:22>> Motion passed six to zero.

42:24>> [clears throat]

42:25>> Consent agenda. Any member of the City

42:27Council may cause any item placed on the

42:29consent agenda to be removed. Items

42:31removed from the consent agenda shall be

42:32taken up by the City Council immediately

42:34following the consent agenda in the

42:36order in which they were removed

42:37[clears throat] unless otherwise

42:38provided by the City Council rules of

42:40order.

42:41>> The public hearing and agenda items 10

42:43and 11 were held on October 20th, 2026.

42:47Any Council discussion?

42:50Got a motion and a second. Roll call.

42:53>> Goodwin? Harding?

42:54>> Hug? Melton? Rowe? Mr. President?

42:57>> I.

42:58>> Motion passed 6 to 0.

43:00>> The public hearings and agenda items 12

43:02through 23 are today. If you wish to

43:05address the City Council regarding these

43:06items, please come to the microphone,

43:10indicate the agenda item number you wish

43:12to address,

43:13identify yourself by your name, address,

43:16who you represent, and if you are a

43:18proponent or opponent. I will now open

43:21the public hearing. Are there any

43:23proponents on items 12 through 23?

43:28>> [clears throat]

43:33>> Items 12 through 23, any proponents?

43:36Seeing none, are there any opponents?

43:51>> Good afternoon. [clears throat] I'm on

43:52the City Council. Don Yard Johnson,

43:54Johnson & Johnson Foundation, North

43:56Omaha Concerned Citizens Foundation.

43:59Um

44:004928 North 52nd Street.

44:04I'm opposed to um

44:0612

44:07through 15.

44:10It seems to me that some of my

44:11associates in the oil industry in

44:13Oklahoma is trying to invite Mr. Warren

44:16Buffett to move down here, and we're

44:17losing a lot of business. So, we have a

44:19lot of liquor. So, I asked the Liquor

44:21Commissioner to put someone in Omaha on

44:23the Liquor Commission so we can move

44:24forward with the medical marijuana, and

44:26also put plumbing back in high school. I

44:28took plumbing in high school. I told Mr.

44:29Lippo, "I'm not doing plumbing. My

44:31teacher want to be a

44:32to be a astronaut and and a pilot, and

44:34help bring Harding

44:35>> to stick with the items at hand on the

44:37liquor licenses for 12 through 15.

44:39>> Well, that means Ricker Harding is going

44:41to Washington D.C. cuz we want him to go

44:42to Washington D.C.

44:43>> Thank you.

44:43>> Thank you. Are there any other

44:46opponents on items 12 through 23?

44:58>> [clears throat]

44:59>> Larry Stover, 5115 Lafayette Avenue,

45:02Omaha 68132.

45:05Uh I'm opposed to number 20.

45:09I'd like to ask you, the reason I do

45:10this is unless we challenge you, we

45:12don't hear much about these items.

45:15But I'd like to know if these traffic

45:17signal infrastructure things

45:19involve what is called flock cameras.

45:23So that you can spy on us a little more.

45:26License plate readers, maybe.

45:28Or like those old cameras over in

45:30Council Bluffs that takes your license

45:32and

45:34sends you a ticket in the mail if you

45:35run through a yellow light.

45:38Uh what do you mean by infrastructure?

45:40I'd like to have a little discussion

45:42with you on that, and the only reason we

45:44get those discussions is when somebody

45:46challenges you. Thank you.

45:48>> Thank you. Question for Mr. Cozzi.

45:52>> Matt Cozzi, law department.

45:54>> Uh Mr. Cozzi, can you provide an answer

45:56to that for us, please?

45:57>> Certainly. I would never want to step on

45:59Mr. Stuby's toes, but I'll handle it.

46:02They are for a traffic signals. Um the

46:05cameras being mentioned that were

46:08referenced to the ones we have in

46:09Council Bluffs, those are not permitted

46:12by law here in the state of Nebraska.

46:15The legislature has not authorized those

46:17to be used, so that's not an option. As

46:20has been said repeatedly,

46:24the Omaha Police Department does not use

46:27flock cameras. There's no surveillance.

46:31There's no tickets in the mail. None of

46:33that is accurate.

46:36>> Thank you.

46:39Are there any other opponents here in

46:41items 12 through 23?

46:44>> [clears throat]

46:45>> Seeing none, public hearing is closed.

46:49Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see you. Wait.

46:51Sorry, we have one more

46:53opponent.

46:53>> So Soledad Rodriguez, 1005 North 49th

46:57Street, 68132.

46:59Um, I'm here to oppose, I believe, 13

47:03and 15.

47:06Um, on 13, there's already a liquor

47:09store right across the street. I'm

47:11noticing a lot of liquor stores in North

47:13Omaha. There's Bill's Liquor Store

47:15right there.

47:17Um, and then, yeah, I'm just worried

47:19about it. There's a lot of liquor stores

47:21in North Omaha right by churches or

47:23right by elementary schools, and that's

47:25why I'm opposed of it.

47:27>> Thank you. And just to clarify, those

47:29are just for the liquor license manager

47:32applications.

47:33>> Sorry, first time.

47:34>> okay. No, that's okay. Appreciate you

47:36coming down.

47:37>> Thank you.

47:39Any other opponents?

47:42Seeing none, public hearing is closed.

47:46Council member Good, when you're

47:47recognized.

47:47>> Thanks.

47:48>> President, I did want to comment

47:50on, and you did answer, that essentially

47:54items number 13 and 14 were really for

47:58this to license the manager. However,

48:01um, I did want to state on the record

48:04that uh, the law committee is actually

48:08comprehensively looking at

48:10uh, the density of of liquor licenses,

48:14um, in uh, District 2 compared to the

48:18rest of the city. So, I did want Ms.

48:20Rodriguez to know that her concern, um,

48:24as well as we do hear from other

48:26constituents about when actual liquor

48:29licenses are renewed. Now, that's not

48:31what this item is,

48:33but we are doing a comprehensive

48:35evaluation of that. And so, we just

48:37appreciate your your comments. Thank

48:39you.

48:41>> Thank you.

48:43Got a motion and a

48:45second.

48:46I second it.

48:48Roll call.

48:49>> Goodwin.

48:50>> Yes.

48:50>> Parding.

48:51>> Yes.

48:51>> Hug.

48:51>> Yes.

48:52>> Melton.

48:52>> Yes.

48:52>> Bro.

48:53>> Yes.

48:53>> Mr. President.

48:54>> Aye.

48:55>> Motion passed 6 to 0.

48:57Item 24, an ordinance to approve the

48:591053 Park tax increment financing

49:02redevelopment agreement.

49:04>> Public hearing is now open on item

49:05number 24. Miss Hadley, good afternoon.

49:09>> Afternoon, Bridget Hadley, city planning

49:11here to answer questions you may have.

49:13>> Thank you.

49:17>> I Rob Wuling Foundations Development

49:191886 South 126th Street, Omaha,

49:21Nebraska. I am the developer of the

49:22project and would be more than happy to

49:24answer any questions you may have on

49:25this affordable housing project.

49:26>> Thank you. Are there any other

49:28proponents here in item 24?

49:31Seeing none, are there any opponents?

49:42>> Uh good afternoon. I'm a city council,

49:43Don Johnson, the Johnson and Johnson

49:46Foundation, North Omaha Concerned

49:47Citizen Foundation, 4928 North 52nd

49:50Street.

49:52I'm opposing to some of these projects

49:53because when I was in high school I had

49:55plumbing and I want to money put back in

49:57the high school to put plumbing cuz the

49:59plumbers are complaining and we need to

50:00know why. So, we'll figure it out in

50:02high school.

50:03>> Thank you. Are there any other opponents

50:04here today on item 24?

50:08Public hearing is closed. A quick

50:09question, Mr. Wuling.

50:11Uh thanks for coming down today.

50:13>> No problem.

50:13>> And explain again what this TIF

50:16financing is for. What are you doing

50:18here?

50:18>> Sure. This will be 50 units of

50:19affordable housing for seniors uh on the

50:21northeast corner of Park Avenue and

50:23Pacific Street. Um it'll be uh

50:26one-bedroom units that will be built on

50:28the site of what was formerly a uh

50:30apartment building that was torn down.

50:31It was condemned by the city and torn

50:33down. So, we'll be re- re-utilizing the

50:34existing infrastructure on the site and

50:37uh creating affordable housing for for

50:38the neighborhood.

50:39>> A- And all 50 of those are all

50:41affordable?

50:41>> They are, yes.

50:42>> Okay. And it's senior living?

50:43>> Correct.

50:44>> Senior living affordable housing.

50:46>> Yes. 55 or better.

50:48>> Appreciate you coming down today.

50:50>> Thank you.

50:50>> There are no further lights.

50:52>> Item 25 an ordinance to approve a

50:54purchase order to Midwest Laboratories

50:56Inc. for lab testing for storm water,

50:59surface water, biosolids, soil, and

51:01compost samples.

51:02>> Public hearing is now open on item 25.

51:05Are there any proponents?

51:09Seeing none, are there any opponents?

51:14Public hearing is closed.

51:16>> Item 26, an ordinance to approve an

51:17interlocal agreement with Douglas

51:19County, Sarpy County, and the Papio

51:20Missouri River NRD for continued

51:23household hazardous waste collection

51:24services at the under-the-sink facility.

51:28>> Public hearing is now open on item 26.

51:30Are there any proponents?

51:34Seeing none, are there any opponents?

51:38Public hearing is closed.

51:40>> Item 27, an ordinance to approve a

51:41streetscape maintenance agreement with

51:43Alameda Leavenworth LLC for Kiewit

51:46subdivision replant one site at 2601

51:49Leavenworth Street.

51:50>> Public hearing is now open on item 27.

51:53Are there any proponents?

51:57Seeing none, are there any opponents?

52:01Public hearing is closed.

52:03>> Item 28, an ordinance to acquire private

52:05property for the construction of the

52:07George Miller Parkway west of 180th

52:10Street.

52:10>> [clears throat]

52:11>> Public hearing is now open on item 28.

52:14Are there any proponents?

52:17Seeing none, are there any opponents?

52:21Public hearing is closed.

52:23>> Item 29, an ordinance to approve a major

52:25amendment to the South Streams mixed-use

52:27district development agreement. Planning

52:28Board and Planning Department recommend

52:30approval.

52:31>> Public hearing is now open on item 29.

52:34Are there any proponents?

52:38Seeing none, are there any opponents?

52:42Public hearing is closed.

52:44>> Item 30, an ordinance to accept the bid

52:46of Lightspeed Commerce Inc. in the

52:48amount of $123,840

52:51for the point of sale system for the

52:53golf division.

52:54>> Public hearing is now open on item 30.

52:57Are there any proponents?

53:01Seeing none, are there any opponents.

53:10>> Uh good afternoon. I'm Omaha City

53:11Council Danny Ervin Johnson of the

53:13Johnson Equity Foundation, North Omaha

53:15Concerned Citizens Foundation, 4928

53:17North 52nd Street. Now,

53:20Mr. Salinger,

53:23to make this understanding,

53:27they're telling me when I was walking

53:30around in here and there

53:32that some of these golf balls are

53:33getting stuck in the sewer system and

53:35these plumbers can't get them out. I

53:36don't know if this is true or not. But

53:38in the meantime, I did find some problem

53:40with the water in Papillion.

53:42And

53:44at the same time,

53:45let's see if the plumbers are telling

53:46the truth that these golf balls are

53:47getting into the sewer system and they

53:49need to pay for that.

53:50>> Okay, thank you. Are there any opponents

53:52on item 30?

53:56Seeing none, public hearing is closed.

53:59>> Item 31, an ordinance to approve special

54:02tax revenue redevelopment bonds series

54:042026 in the amount of $115 million

54:07for the Mutual Tower, Millwork, 8th and

54:09Douglas garages.

54:11>> Public hearing is now open on item 31.

54:14Are there any proponents?

54:19Seeing none, are there any opponents?

54:23Public hearing is closed.

54:26>> Item 32, an ordinance to approve various

54:28purpose [clears throat] bonds series

54:292026 in the amount of $110 million for

54:33the public facility, public safety,

54:35parks, street and highway, street

54:36improvements, and sewers.

54:39>> Public hearing is now open on item 32.

54:42Are there any proponents?

54:45Seeing none, are there any opponents?

54:49Public hearing is closed.

54:51>> Item 33, an ordinance to accept and

54:53authorize disbursement from the Highway

54:55Safety Program Grant in the amount of

54:58$122,378

55:00for the project Nightlife Expansion

55:02projects.

55:03>> Public hearing is now open on item 33.

55:07Are there any proponents?

55:11Seeing none, are there any opponents?

55:15Public hearing is closed.

55:17>> Item 34 an ordinance to accept the bid

55:19of Hyman Fire Equipment to provide 100

55:21sets of PPE bunker gear.

55:24>> Public hearing is now open on item 34.

55:27Any proponents?

55:30Chief, good afternoon.

55:32>> Good afternoon, Fire Chief Kathy

55:33Bossman, 1516 Jackson. Here as a

55:35proponent I have Captain Brandon

55:37Kujawski who can answer any questions

55:39you might have.

55:41>> Thank you.

55:43Are there any other proponents here on

55:45item 34?

55:49Seeing none, are there any opponents?

55:53Public hearing is closed.

55:57>> Item 35 an ordinance to accept and

55:58authorize disbursement from the fiscal

56:00year 2025 SAFER grant program to provide

56:03funding of the salary and benefits for

56:0518 new hire firefighters.

56:08>> Public hearing is now open on item 35.

56:10Chief, good afternoon again.

56:11>> Good afternoon, Kathy Bossman, Fire

56:13Chief, 1516 Jackson. Here as a proponent

56:15and I can answer any questions that you

56:17might have.

56:18>> Thank you.

56:20>> Mike Francis, Public Safety Grant

56:21Coordinator for the Omaha Fire

56:22Department, 1516 Jackson. Can answer any

56:26questions also.

56:27>> Thank you. Any other proponents here

56:29today on item 35?

56:32Mr. Towey, good afternoon.

56:33>> Good afternoon, Mr. President. Trevor

56:35Towey, president Omaha Professional

56:36Firefighters. Also here as a proponent

56:39this is going to go a long ways to

56:40address our staffing needs and I want to

56:41thank Chief Bossman, her administration,

56:44and the mayor's office for allowing us

56:45to assist in the application process and

56:48I urge your support.

56:49>> Thank you.

56:51Any other proponents on item 35?

56:55Seeing none, are there any opponents?

57:05>> Good afternoon, Omaha City Council.

57:07Danny A. Johnson, the Johnson Christian

57:10North Omaha Concerned Citizens

57:11Foundation,

57:124928 North 52nd Street.

57:14I just have one request for the firemen.

57:17With all this new equipment, when these

57:19young men go into some of these creeks,

57:21cuz I used to walk in the creeks and

57:22collect samples of water. And the Navy,

57:25they didn't have us drinking seawater.

57:27But these guys are scared to walk in the

57:28sewer water. So, in the meantime, I told

57:30them the Navy's the best firefighters in

57:32the world and we can help them, but I'm

57:33too busy trying to help Mr. Harding get

57:35to Washington, D.C.

57:36>> Thank you. Are there any other opponents

57:38on item 35?

57:42Seeing none, public hearing is closed.

57:44Just a a quick question, Chief, if I

57:46can.

57:49I appreciate the work that you've put in

57:51sitting on the Public Safety Committee

57:53and the effort that goes into

57:56getting these grants and it's a I don't

57:58want to say it's a crapshoot, but it's

57:59not a certainty. So,

58:01I appreciate all the work you did and

58:03with Trevor and Local 385,

58:05the partnership working together,

58:08is management and the fire union

58:10benefiting the safety and well-being not

58:12only of firefighters, but also

58:14um Station 70. I think we talked about

58:16that this morning. What are the plans on

58:19that? I know this safer grant will help

58:20with staffing, but how does that work

58:22into the the new station with uh that'll

58:25be going in and to Northwest Omaha?

58:27>> Thank you. Yes, so the safer grant will

58:29allow us to hire 18 firefighters.

58:32Uh and we would definitely appreciate

58:33the collaboration with uh Local 385 and

58:37the application process. The 18

58:39firefighters will eventually be used to

58:41staff Fire Station 70, which will be

58:43under construction in 2027 with the goal

58:46of opening it in very early 2028.

58:49>> Okay, appreciate you coming out. Trevor,

58:50a quick question for you if you can come

58:52down.

58:57>> Yes, sir. Trevor Towle, Omaha

58:58Professional Firefighters 605 Local.

59:00>> Appreciate to you as well the efforts

59:01you put in not only with the Chief and

59:04the Mayor, but also council members

59:06on educating us on

59:08what those safer grants do for your

59:10membership. Talk a little bit about how

59:13that helps with your staffing

59:15and the issues you deal with for your

59:18members on how these additional 18 with

59:21that safer grants going to help that.

59:23>> Yeah, uh thanks for the question. And

59:25you've heard me down here before talking

59:26about the staffing needs. And um

59:29you know, my my perspective is always we

59:31need the staff whether we get it through

59:32the budgetary process or through

59:34alternate revenue sources like safer

59:36grants. Um

59:38it really doesn't matter. We need the

59:39staff. But but this safer grants really

59:41going to help us free up money in other

59:43areas of the city budget. But

59:45ultimately, because we're able to keep

59:47up with our staffing needs, we're going

59:49to be able to keep all of our rigs in

59:50service all the time, which is important

59:52for uh the citizens of Omaha when they

59:54call 911. So, thank you for your support

59:56and everybody on the council that has

59:58supported it in the past.

59:59>> Appreciate Mr. Towey coming down and

1:00:00again all your efforts educating us and

1:00:03working with the chief. And I know the

1:00:05mayor's been very supportive of the

1:00:07efforts so far uh and we'll continue

1:00:09that. So, I appreciate you coming down

1:00:11today.

1:00:11>> you.

1:00:13>> Seeing no further lights, we'll move on.

1:00:15>> Item 36, an ordinance to accept and

1:00:17authorize disbursement from the Omaha

1:00:19Public Library Foundation in the amount

1:00:21of $1,325,160

1:00:24to support four new positions for

1:00:27integration of Do Space at the Omaha

1:00:29Public Library.

1:00:30>> Public hearing is now open on item 36.

1:00:33Are there any proponents?

1:00:37Seeing none, are there any opponents?

1:00:42Public hearing is closed.

1:00:44>> Item 37, an ordinance to approve the

1:00:46interlocal agreement with Douglas County

1:00:48to formalize a process for the city

1:00:50attorney and county attorney to

1:00:52determine when law enforcement officers

1:00:54must be disclosed to prosecuting

1:00:56agencies as Brady Giglio officers.

1:00:59>> Public hearing is now open on item 37.

1:01:02Are there any proponents?

1:01:06Seeing none, are there any opponents?

1:01:10Public hearing is closed. I got a quick

1:01:12question for Mr. Cozzi.

1:01:16>> Matt Cozzi, law department.

1:01:17>> You love to do this, Mr. Cozzi. Can you

1:01:19translate what this Brady Giglio

1:01:23Did I pronounce that right?

1:01:24>> Yes.

1:01:25>> Could you just give us a brief

1:01:27understanding of what this is before us

1:01:29today?

1:01:30>> Um

1:01:31Yes, the problem is that's not something

1:01:34that I can do

1:01:36briefly.

1:01:38Um just it's one of those things that if

1:01:40you're in the criminal justice system

1:01:42and I've dealt with police and things

1:01:44like that that you know about, so I will

1:01:46do my best.

1:01:48It's called Brady Giglio because there

1:01:49are two United States Supreme Court

1:01:51decisions that this is named after,

1:01:53Brady versus Maryland and Giglio versus

1:01:56I don't remember who,

1:01:58which have requirements on prosecutors

1:02:01to disclose credibility information

1:02:04about police officers to

1:02:07defendants. It's a requirement that

1:02:09prosecutors have in the criminal justice

1:02:11case. Um and the Supreme The US Supreme

1:02:14Court has decided that when it comes to

1:02:17police officers, there is a set of

1:02:19criteria

1:02:21that has to be followed in terms of

1:02:24whether that information has to be

1:02:26disclosed um to a defendant in a

1:02:29criminal case.

1:02:31I do want to point out

1:02:33that just because

1:02:36an officer's conduct has to be disclosed

1:02:39does not mean that it is relevant in a

1:02:41trial. That is a separate decision that

1:02:44a judge would make

1:02:46in this. All this res- All this

1:02:48ordinance before you is doing is

1:02:51codifying

1:02:52a agreement between the county

1:02:54attorney's office and my office about

1:02:58how this process will be handled. I will

1:03:00tell you that these two offices, the

1:03:03prosecutor's office and the county

1:03:04attorney's office, have been doing this

1:03:07for over a decade, that the disclosure

1:03:10is done um all the time

1:03:13and that there have not been any issues.

1:03:15However, due to a change in state law

1:03:19um this past legislative session, this

1:03:21agreement

1:03:23um formalized agreement was required um

1:03:26to do. So, that's why it's before you

1:03:27today.

1:03:28I tried to make that as short as

1:03:30possible.

1:03:31>> A lawyer that never likes to be

1:03:32long-winded, that was pretty well done.

1:03:34So, I appreciate your explanation on

1:03:36that. Thank you.

1:03:39>> Item 38, an ordinance to amend various

1:03:41sections of chapter 19 and to amend,

1:03:44add, and repeal various sections of

1:03:46chapter 49 of the Omaha Municipal Code

1:03:48entitled plumbing and to create a grace

1:03:50period in the enforcement of amend of

1:03:52amended and new provisions ADUs

1:03:54communication and support.

1:03:56>> Public hearing is now open on item 38.

1:03:59Are there any proponents? Mr. Fanzlow,

1:04:01good afternoon.

1:04:02>> Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Council.

1:04:04My name is Dave Fanzlow, I'm the city of

1:04:05Omaha planning director.

1:04:07>> [clears throat and cough]

1:04:07>> On July 21st, 2025, Mayor Ewing created

1:04:10a number of task forces to address

1:04:13his administration's top priorities,

1:04:15including a task force that was created

1:04:18to create that was

1:04:19focused on creating more affordable

1:04:21housing

1:04:22and how to build it faster and easier.

1:04:25As a planning department director, I'm

1:04:27chair of that task force.

1:04:29Included in the strategies

1:04:31the task force recommended to Mayor

1:04:32Ewing were revamping our TIF program to

1:04:35include a no net loss policy

1:04:38which this council supported last month

1:04:40and increasing the supply and variety of

1:04:42housing that our citizens citizens tell

1:04:44us that they want.

1:04:46Recently, Omaha was one of 14 cities

1:04:48awarded a grant

1:04:49for up to $750,000 from a Blue Bloomberg

1:04:53Philanthropy program intended to boost

1:04:56the creation of ADUs.

1:04:59The Bloomberg organization credited

1:05:01demonstrated mayoral leadership and our

1:05:04readiness to adapt as some of the

1:05:06reasons why Omaha was selected to be

1:05:07part of this program.

1:05:09>> [snorts]

1:05:10>> This work clearly shows that we're

1:05:11looking at everything and everything to

1:05:14reduce the cost of housing.

1:05:18In my opinion

1:05:19we have the opportunity to adapt again.

1:05:22Revisions to various building codes

1:05:26>> [clears throat]

1:05:27>> that can make housing more affordable

1:05:28also made it on the to-do list of the

1:05:31task force.

1:05:32The revisions to the plumbing code that

1:05:35are before you today

1:05:37are another way that we can help reduce

1:05:38the cost of housing for our citizens,

1:05:41and I think each and every one of us

1:05:42want to do that.

1:05:44I'm going to turn the podium over to

1:05:46Lay. She's going to discuss

1:05:49the process we went through,

1:05:51how inclusive inclusive it was, and we

1:05:54will be here to answer any of your

1:05:55questions. Thank you. Thank you.

1:06:02>> Okay, I'm short, so I don't think you

1:06:04can see me.

1:06:05Um, my name is Lay. Um, Lay Wynn. I am

1:06:09the superintendent of permits and

1:06:10inspection. As Dave has mentioned, uh,

1:06:13we're going before you today to propose

1:06:15the Omaha plumbing code change.

1:06:18Um, so I prepared a testimony, and um,

1:06:22I have Dave Simpson here. He's our

1:06:24chief, uh, plumbing inspector that he

1:06:26could answer questions once we're done

1:06:29here, so.

1:06:30Um, while the construction industry has

1:06:32evolved rapidly, the last major

1:06:34amendment to the Omaha plumbing code was

1:06:37in 2015.

1:06:39Omaha is the only jurisdiction in the

1:06:41metro area that has its own plumbing

1:06:43code. Sarpy County, Papillion, Gretna

1:06:46adopted the International Plumbing Code,

1:06:49while Bellevue, Lincoln, and the state

1:06:50of Nebraska adopted the Uniform Plumbing

1:06:53Code. These are nationally recognized

1:06:56model code that undergo more frequent

1:06:58code cycle changes. International, um,

1:07:02Code Council adopt their code every 3

1:07:05years.

1:07:06In September 2025, we formed the Omaha

1:07:09Plumbing Code Committee with a

1:07:10commitment for equal representation.

1:07:14The nine-members, um, code committee

1:07:16comprised of union and non-union master

1:07:19plumber and journeyman, a mechanical

1:07:21engineer,

1:07:22a developer, chief plumbing inspector

1:07:25Dave uh Simpson, and myself I was a plan

1:07:27examiner at the time.

1:07:29There were four code review meeting held

1:07:31between November and December before the

1:07:34proposed amendment was sent to the law

1:07:35department for review.

1:07:37We held the first public hearing um on

1:07:40April 1st before the plumbing board.

1:07:44Conference room 702 was a standing room

1:07:47only filled with both union and

1:07:49non-union members testifying the codes

1:07:53both for and against.

1:07:55Uh on April 16th, the Omaha plumbing

1:07:58inspector um I mean, chief plumbing

1:08:00inspector

1:08:01and I met with three members of the uh

1:08:04plumbing board to discuss the public

1:08:06comment.

1:08:07And we revised the code to reflect those

1:08:09feedback.

1:08:11They spoke, we listened.

1:08:14On July 1st, the plumbing board voted to

1:08:16recommend the proposed code to the

1:08:19building board review.

1:08:20The building board review comprised of

1:08:22four engineers,

1:08:23an architect, a contractor, and a

1:08:26representative from the public.

1:08:28There were three open public hearing

1:08:30before the board approved the change on

1:08:32a 6-1 vote to recommend to city council

1:08:35today.

1:08:37Um

1:08:38the code we are proposing introduced

1:08:41four critical amendment designed to make

1:08:44Omaha more competitive, affordable, and

1:08:46efficient.

1:08:48Um I'm going to touch on four.

1:08:50Alternative material, the introduction

1:08:52of PVC.

1:08:54Currently, Omaha heavily restrict the

1:08:56use of PVC to single-family homes,

1:08:59restaurant, and multi-family home under

1:09:01four story.

1:09:03Other use require a waiver request

1:09:05through the plumbing board.

1:09:07We are proposing to expand the use of

1:09:09PVC as an alternate material

1:09:12aligning us more with the national model

1:09:15code standard.

1:09:16This change alone deliver between 60 to

1:09:198% in material cost saving in comparison

1:09:22to cast iron.

1:09:24We were able to get some

1:09:26and the new for a new apartment building

1:09:29a cost saving of around $170,000

1:09:32in material when you use PVC versus cast

1:09:35iron.

1:09:37For a school project that has the same

1:09:39footprint, it was cheaper to build in

1:09:41Gretna than it is here in Omaha.

1:09:45This is a significant cost saving

1:09:47without compromising safety as safety

1:09:49and the fire and as building and the

1:09:51fire codes

1:09:54are not changing.

1:09:56Um building system

1:09:58protection belongs in the building and

1:10:01the fire code, not the plumbing code.

1:10:04Cities surrounding the Omaha and the

1:10:06state has using model codes and their

1:10:08safety are not being compromised. The

1:10:10model codes allow PVC

1:10:13in all commercial and residential

1:10:15application without use, height, and

1:10:18area restriction.

1:10:21The another material that we are

1:10:23um introducing is alternate material

1:10:25with PEX A.

1:10:27The existing code currently allow only

1:10:29copper, red brass, and ductile iron for

1:10:32water service line. This is the the line

1:10:34between

1:10:35the main and your house uh meter.

1:10:39PVC has been allowed in homes since the

1:10:411980s

1:10:43for above ground use and PEX has been

1:10:45allowed since 2007.

1:10:47The proposed codes will allow PEX A as

1:10:49an alternate material which is widely

1:10:52acceptable in both commercial and

1:10:55applicate a commercial and commercial

1:10:57application in the model codes.

1:11:00With the rising cost of copper, PEX is

1:11:02approximately a $1,000 cheaper per house

1:11:05for for 100 ft.

1:11:08Um large metro area like Des Moines and

1:11:11Sioux Falls are using PEX for their

1:11:13water main service line.

1:11:15Demolition costs.

1:11:18Demolition costs in Omaha has increased

1:11:20from 20 to 30% since last year.

1:11:23Right now, the master plumber is

1:11:24required to pull this permit to cut off

1:11:27the water and sewer line for demolition.

1:11:30This amendment allow licensed

1:11:33residential sewer contractor to pull the

1:11:35permit, which in turn allow competitive

1:11:38biddings and potentially lowering

1:11:41demolition cost.

1:11:44And last but not least, labor shortage.

1:11:46We are facing labor shortage in all the

1:11:49trades, but more for plumbers here in

1:11:51Omaha.

1:11:52While electrician operate at a one to

1:11:54six ratio and steamfitter at the one to

1:11:57three, our current code restrict the

1:12:00rigid one plumber to one apprentice

1:12:02ratio.

1:12:03We're proposing to move that needle to

1:12:06one to two ratio, allowing more people

1:12:09to work in the trade.

1:12:10I've highlighted some of the key points

1:12:12of the code. Um

1:12:14we are available for any questions.

1:12:18>> Thank you, Lee.

1:12:20Any other proponents?

1:12:22>> Ms. Bezpoyasny, good afternoon.

1:12:25>> Good afternoon. I am Anna Bezpoyasny, uh

1:12:27here at the request of the planning

1:12:29department just to give a little

1:12:30background on how the um

1:12:34initiation of the code changes uh began.

1:12:38Um basically, once the code committee

1:12:42was um

1:12:44formed,

1:12:45what the city did during my tenure as

1:12:48superintendent was we prepared our own

1:12:50rough draft of the changes that we were

1:12:53uh hoping to see in the building or in

1:12:54the plumbing code, rather.

1:12:56And um we proposed those as a written

1:12:59document to the um to the code

1:13:02committee.

1:13:03Um the code committee actually dug into

1:13:07some of the changes that we were

1:13:08proposed and at the time wanted to take

1:13:11it even further and open up to more um

1:13:15materials than what we had identified in

1:13:18in our original rough draft. Uh I

1:13:20believe some of those things may have

1:13:22been uh pulled back a little bit after

1:13:24some of the additional conversations

1:13:26that Lee and Dave had with the uh

1:13:29um

1:13:30industry after, you know, I retired. Um

1:13:34but I just wanted to give a little

1:13:35background, so if there's any questions

1:13:37that I can answer about what happened

1:13:40before January, I'm happy to do that.

1:13:43Thank you.

1:13:44>> Anna, can we get your address for the

1:13:45record as well?

1:13:46>> Sure. 3615 South 101st Street.

1:13:49>> Thanks.

1:13:50>> You bet.

1:13:50>> Thank you. Any other proponents here

1:13:53today?

1:13:57>> David Clements, 1720 South 32nd Avenue.

1:14:00Uh these code changes, looks like a lot

1:14:02of it's just cleaning up paperwork.

1:14:04Uh I've been a plumbing instructor for

1:14:0523 years, and first day of class

1:14:10you'll have 30 people.

1:14:12Once they get to fourth year, you got

1:14:1310.

1:14:14Two out of every three apprentices

1:14:16either washing out, finding a better

1:14:18job, moving on. So, [clears throat] the

1:14:21one-to-one code

1:14:23ratio is just not doable.

1:14:26Uh I'm more than happy, you know,

1:14:28>> [clears throat]

1:14:28>> to see that change in there. The other

1:14:30one is the

1:14:31allowing plastic PVC instead of cast

1:14:34iron. As a master plumber, I own my own

1:14:36company. I work with it every day.

1:14:39And I can do plastic for a third of the

1:14:42price, cheaper, faster. It's going to

1:14:45last longer. You know, when you're in a

1:14:46restaurant and the pipes just eating

1:14:48that cast iron out, and I've got to come

1:14:49in every 10 years and jackhammer a

1:14:51restaurant floor up, it's just not

1:14:53cost-effective for these restaurants.

1:14:55So, that's what I have. Thank you.

1:14:57>> Thanks for coming down. Any other

1:14:58proponents?

1:15:02>> Taj Easton with New Style Development,

1:15:05uh 222 South 15th Street. Uh just

1:15:08really appreciate the city and the the

1:15:11planning board and everybody getting

1:15:12together to

1:15:14uh give us a choice on options. Uh the

1:15:17cost is getting prohibited for

1:15:19affordable housing, and I'm presently

1:15:22doing a a parking garage right now,

1:15:24which

1:15:25I I it's went through two different

1:15:27levels of cast in the last last

1:15:3030 or so. We're ready for plastic to be

1:15:33able to at least

1:15:34take its place where it should go.

1:15:36Thank you.

1:15:37>> Thank you. We have a proponent. The

1:15:39floor is yours. Thanks for your

1:15:40patience.

1:15:46>> I don't think so.

1:15:49>> [clears throat]

1:15:55>> All right, my name is Barney Barrett.

1:15:56I'm with Barrett Plumbing.

1:15:58We've been in business over 50 years.

1:16:01And I've seen a lot of stuff come and a

1:16:02lot of stuff go.

1:16:04We're overdue for changes. Yeah, I'm I'm

1:16:06glad to see this and I'm I'm glad that

1:16:08Dave is making the push to make it

1:16:10happen. All this stuff is we're 30 years

1:16:12behind the other city. We do business in

1:16:14other towns. They're way ahead of us.

1:16:16You know, cast iron's antique.

1:16:19You know, they barely got rid of

1:16:21galvanized and they had a fight to get

1:16:22copper. Now they're going to fight You

1:16:24know, just it Nobody wants to change

1:16:26with the times. We do most of our We're

1:16:28we're licensed in all cities.

1:16:30We do most of our projects in Sarpy

1:16:31because they allow all this stuff. We

1:16:33can do PEX water, PEX sewer, everything,

1:16:36you know. And and it's better. It needs

1:16:38to be here, too.

1:16:39You know, it'll it it The ratios are

1:16:41better, everything. They're It's a long

1:16:43time coming and I'm glad to see it.

1:16:46Thank you.

1:16:47>> Thank you for your patience, too.

1:16:50Do

1:16:51Go ahead with your address.

1:16:51>> 1409 Chappet in Bellevue, Nebraska.

1:16:55>> Thank you.

1:16:56Any [clears throat] other proponents?

1:17:04>> Uh Aaron Moulton, 8938 North 170th

1:17:07Street. Um

1:17:09I am the division president for D.R.

1:17:11Horton here in Nebraska.

1:17:13Um

1:17:13and nationally, we are the largest home

1:17:15builder in the United States. We build

1:17:18one out of every seven houses in America

1:17:20every year and one out of every five

1:17:22houses that are priced under $400,000.

1:17:25It's one out of 20% of all the houses in

1:17:27America every single year under

1:17:29$400,000.

1:17:30Um

1:17:32the segment where every

1:17:34code that is enacted or not changed

1:17:37affects the lower price houses the most.

1:17:40And so

1:17:41um in Nebraska, we recently acquired

1:17:44Celebrity Homes. That makes us now the

1:17:46largest home builder in the state of

1:17:48Nebraska. And so I in the next 12 months

1:17:51here in the Omaha metro area, I'll build

1:17:53nearly 40% of all the new construction

1:17:56houses. And so it really affects us. And

1:17:59so these uh code changes and amendments

1:18:01um I'm in support of. And so uh

1:18:05to give you an idea um on the PEX and

1:18:07the PVC piping, um

1:18:10Omaha stands out, but not in a good way.

1:18:12Because we build in these competing

1:18:13markets also like uh Des Moines,

1:18:15Indianapolis, Oklahoma City, Kansas

1:18:17City, where plastic's allowed. The exact

1:18:20same houses are built here in Omaha that

1:18:22we're building in Des Moines, for

1:18:23example. But in Omaha, the house costs

1:18:25$5,600 more just for the plumbing bill

1:18:28alone.

1:18:29And in Indianapolis, that number's

1:18:30$5,300.

1:18:32Um these service lines into the house,

1:18:35uh copper's running about $4.40 a foot

1:18:37right now. Um there's a lot of plumbers

1:18:39here. I think you guys could probably

1:18:40agree with me on that. Where PEX piping

1:18:43or plastic piping's running about 70

1:18:44cents. And so um also in Omaha, it's

1:18:48very typical that the water that is only

1:18:51run on one side of the streets when you

1:18:53guys are approving new housing

1:18:54developments.

1:18:55And so that forces all the home builders

1:18:57on all the houses that are on the

1:18:58opposite side of the street to bore

1:19:00under the road with copper

1:19:03to connect water to the house that's on

1:19:05the opposite side of the street as the

1:19:06water. And so with that being said, that

1:19:08costs another $3,000 a house. All these

1:19:11things combined are costing a home in

1:19:14Omaha almost $16,800

1:19:17more than they do in the city of Des

1:19:18Moines.

1:19:19And so just to give you an idea, that's

1:19:22roughly 7,300

1:19:24households

1:19:25in the Omaha metro area that can't

1:19:27afford a house because that house is

1:19:28$16,800

1:19:30more than it is in the Des Moines

1:19:31market. Um

1:19:33Thanks for letting me come here today.

1:19:35I'm going to be quick with my time. My

1:19:36daughter's playing in

1:19:37final tonight for volleyball, and I want

1:19:40to get out of here. So, thank you.

1:19:41>> Thanks for coming down.

1:19:42>> Yep, thank you.

1:19:43>> Any other pro opponents?

1:19:47>> Hi, Rob Wething, Foundations

1:19:48Development, 1886 South 126th Street,

1:19:50Omaha, Nebraska. [clears throat]

1:19:52Um I've been doing affordable housing

1:19:53for nearly 25 years, and this is one of

1:19:55the first opportunities I've seen in my

1:19:57career to have a regulation rolled back

1:19:59that makes it more efficient to build

1:20:01affordable housing.

1:20:03Um I think it would be a shame if we

1:20:05missed this opportunity. Uh as the the

1:20:07city's own affordable housing action

1:20:09plan uh says we need 30,000 affordable

1:20:12units by 2030. Um and numbers like that

1:20:15um

1:20:16it make it hard.

1:20:18Uh and so every opportunity we can do to

1:20:19make that same house more efficient,

1:20:22where we can build more of them with the

1:20:24same amount of affordable housing

1:20:25resources, I think is important. And I

1:20:27would support. Thank you.

1:20:28>> Thank you.

1:20:30Other pro opponents?

1:20:36>> Chris Reed with Morrissey Engineering,

1:20:38uh 7515 South 45th Avenue. I am the

1:20:42mechanical engineer that was on the code

1:20:43committee that Lay mentioned. So, and I

1:20:45just want to re-emphasize that the

1:20:47proposed revisions to the materials in

1:20:49the Omaha plumbing code are no different

1:20:51than what are allowed in virtually every

1:20:53jurisdiction that we work in. I'm a

1:20:55registered engineer in 11 states. We

1:20:57work all over the country. We're allowed

1:20:59to use these materials everywhere else

1:21:01uh except for Omaha. So, nothing being

1:21:03proposed here is is out of whack with

1:21:05anything else that we see in other

1:21:07jurisdictions. And that was really the

1:21:08intent of the code committee to to get

1:21:10Omaha's code closer to what the model

1:21:13codes allow. Thank you.

1:21:14>> Thank you.

1:21:20>> Afternoon, Jason Thelen. I'm with

1:21:21Welcome Home. We're a nonprofit

1:21:23organization that focus on non-taxpayer

1:21:25solutions to affordable housing, which

1:21:27is exactly what this is.

1:21:29Um we are totally in favor of it. We're

1:21:32hope we uh see more rollbacks going

1:21:34forward throughout the codebook. I think

1:21:35there's a lot of opportunity to do this.

1:21:37The other thing I'll say is that each

1:21:38each one of you uses affordable housing

1:21:40as one of the key things that you want

1:21:42to focus on.

1:21:43It's time now to see you guys vote for

1:21:45that. Actually put your vote where you

1:21:47say you are focused which on affordable

1:21:49housing. If you vote no on this,

1:21:51you're not in favor of affordable

1:21:52housing. Thank you.

1:21:53>> Can we get your address, please? Thanks.

1:21:55>> 10909 Mill Valley Road, Suite 100,

1:21:57Omaha, Nebraska.

1:21:59>> Other pro opponents.

1:22:03>> Hello, I'm Brian Barrett, 1409 Chaplet

1:22:05Drive, Bellevue, Nebraska. I'm on the

1:22:08Omaha Plumbing Board. Uh I was for this.

1:22:11I passed it to come to you guys. Um it

1:22:14really comes down to for me the

1:22:16two-to-one ratio. We have lost so many

1:22:18people because of these data centers and

1:22:19everything else. We can't staff up

1:22:21enough to even be able to put bids in

1:22:23for these affordable housing deals like

1:22:25that. Everything is all of these new

1:22:27changes that they have came from

1:22:28somewhere. It wasn't just we came out of

1:22:30the blue sky and came from it. It came

1:22:32with a need. People are coming and

1:22:34asking for waivers. We had people coming

1:22:35in saying that they had 2 years on their

1:22:37cast iron and all that and all that out.

1:22:39Um I think that it's long overdue and I

1:22:43would never do anything that I wouldn't

1:22:45personally do in my own home or for my

1:22:46own children. So, two-to-one, my son is

1:22:49an apprentice as well. I don't think

1:22:51it's ruining his future. I think it's

1:22:52actually helping it. And it's providing

1:22:53more for them.

1:22:55As far as the material and everything

1:22:56else, I believe that we work everywhere

1:22:58else in the different counties and

1:23:00everything else and we have never seen

1:23:02any problems with it [clears throat]

1:23:04even close to what cast iron is.

1:23:06Um and if you guys have any questions

1:23:07for me or why I voted for it, I'd be

1:23:10more than happy to answer your

1:23:11questions.

1:23:12Thank you.

1:23:14>> Other pro opponents. How many other pro

1:23:17opponents we have? Can we do a show of

1:23:19hands?

1:23:20Thanks. Go ahead and move down if you

1:23:21want kind of keep this going in a timely

1:23:24fashion just so we can keep it keep it

1:23:26going. The floor is yours. Thanks.

1:23:28>> Uh good afternoon, President Begley and

1:23:30members of the Omaha City Council. Nice

1:23:31to see you again. My name is Joshua

1:23:33Marshall, the policy and advocacy

1:23:35manager at Front Porch Investments, 3906

1:23:37Farnam Street in Omaha.

1:23:39Front Porch supports the proposed

1:23:41revisions to the Omaha Plumbing Code

1:23:42expanding the of allowable use of PVC

1:23:45waste vent and text water piping. In

1:23:47addition to advocating for affordable

1:23:49housing policies, Front Porch is a

1:23:51nonprofit lender. Since Since early

1:23:532022, we have invested over $40 million

1:23:56to support affordable housing

1:23:57development and preservation in the

1:23:58Omaha metro, leveraging over $800

1:24:00million in total investments. Through

1:24:02this work, we see how difficult it has

1:24:04become to make housing projects

1:24:05financially feasible. As the city works

1:24:07to increase housing supply, choices, and

1:24:09affordability, changes to the codes

1:24:11governing construction are an important

1:24:13part of that effort. This ordinance

1:24:15offers practical improvements that gives

1:24:17builders more material and installation

1:24:18options while retaining specific

1:24:20installation requirements.

1:24:21The flexibility is important when

1:24:23affordable housing budgets are already

1:24:24stretched thin.

1:24:25Omaha's local development plumbing code

1:24:27differs more differs from the national

1:24:29model codes used by neighboring

1:24:31jurisdictions, and it's more homes by

1:24:33design report, the Omaha by design,

1:24:35identified plumbing codes as the most

1:24:36frequently cited

1:24:38code problem in interviews with local

1:24:40development professionals. The report

1:24:42specifically highlighted requirements

1:24:43that result in greater use of copper and

1:24:45cast iron piping

1:24:46where other jurisdictions permit less

1:24:47expensive materials.

1:24:49The report recommended replacing Omaha's

1:24:51code with the national model code,

1:24:52either the uniform plumbing code or the

1:24:54international plumbing code.

1:24:55Today's proposal is a meaningful step

1:24:57towards addressing the barriers this

1:24:58report identified.

1:24:59Additionally, these changes would also

1:25:01help position Omaha to pursue potential

1:25:03federal funding opportunities through

1:25:04the recently passed 21st Century Road to

1:25:06Housing Act. The act directs HUD to

1:25:08include recommendations for

1:25:09cost-effective and appropriate building

1:25:11codes in its housing supply guidance and

1:25:13best practices. As agencies develop

1:25:15programs and rules, and Congress

1:25:17considers appropriations, Omaha should

1:25:19be preparing to take full advantage of

1:25:21these opportunities. Updating our codes

1:25:23now is one practical way to demonstrate

1:25:25the city is ready to turn additional

1:25:26resources when they're available into

1:25:27more housing. For Front Porch, the

1:25:29central point is straightforward.

1:25:31Construction requirements affect what

1:25:32housing gets built and what it costs.

1:25:34Reducing unnecessary costs can help

1:25:35limited housing resources go further and

1:25:37make more projects feasible, including

1:25:39multi-family housing in Omaha's urban

1:25:41core.

1:25:42We support these practical changes and

1:25:43encourage the council's approval. Thank

1:25:45you.

1:25:45>> Thank you.

1:25:51>> [snorts]

1:25:54>> Hello, Al Bazuki, 2637 South 158th

1:25:58Plaza, Suite 250, Omaha, Nebraska.

1:26:01Um good afternoon, members of City

1:26:02Council. Um I am the joint agency

1:26:05liaison for the Metro Omaha Builders

1:26:06Association, and I'm here to express our

1:26:08support for the proposed updates to the

1:26:10city's plumbing code. Uh we represent

1:26:13more than 400 members across the Omaha

1:26:15metro involved in the residential

1:26:16construction industry. Um but firstly,

1:26:18I'd like to thank the planning

1:26:19department, the plumbing board, and

1:26:20everyone involved

1:26:22um in developing these revisions to the

1:26:24plumbing code. Uh this has been an

1:26:25extensive process, as Lay mentioned

1:26:27earlier. Uh considerable amount of

1:26:29feedback has been received, considered,

1:26:31and incorporated uh into the version of

1:26:33the code before you today. Um and we

1:26:36really appreciate the time and effort

1:26:37that has gone into that process.

1:26:40Um

1:26:40housing affordability really continues

1:26:42to be one of the biggest challenges

1:26:43facing our industry

1:26:45uh and the broader Omaha community. As

1:26:47we look for ways to address that

1:26:48challenge, it's important that we

1:26:50evaluate existing regulations and

1:26:52identify opportunities to reduce

1:26:54unnecessary construction costs when

1:26:56possible.

1:26:57We believe that these proposed revisions

1:26:59are a positive step in that direction.

1:27:02Uh by expanding the use of approved

1:27:04cost-effective plumbing materials, these

1:27:06changes will give builders and

1:27:07contractors greater flexibility in how

1:27:09they approach residential projects.

1:27:12That flexibility

1:27:14can help reduce construction costs while

1:27:15continuing to maintain appropriate

1:27:17safety and performance standards.

1:27:19Um while no single policy change is

1:27:22going to solve our housing affordability

1:27:23challenges,

1:27:25small improvements like these can make

1:27:27meaningful difference.

1:27:28When we identify opportunities to

1:27:30modernize existing regulations and make

1:27:32housing more cost-effective to build,

1:27:34we're moving in the right direction. We

1:27:36appreciate the city's willingness to

1:27:38take a closer look at these requirements

1:27:39and work toward practical solutions that

1:27:41benefit both the industry and future

1:27:43homeowners. On behalf of MOBA and our

1:27:45members, we encourage you to support uh

1:27:47we encourage your support for these

1:27:49changes. Thank you.

1:27:50>> Thank you.

1:27:52Other proponents.

1:28:01>> Uh, good afternoon. Um, my name's Dan

1:28:03Fay, uh, plumbing shop owner in Omaha,

1:28:064132 North 92nd Avenue, 68134.

1:28:11Uh, been a plumber since 1998, so I've

1:28:13been around a long time, a lot of cast

1:28:15iron. Everybody's pretty much been doing

1:28:17the same codes all this time and I've

1:28:19seen

1:28:21short times of labor that have,

1:28:24uh, hurt our industry. Um, I believe

1:28:26we're short labored now.

1:28:28Um, I don't believe the city even issues

1:28:30more than 700 or 750 licenses in the

1:28:34city of Omaha with

1:28:36well over 600,000

1:28:38uh, residents and in in relation to

1:28:40other trades, I believe that's a low

1:28:41number.

1:28:42Uh, we should and I'm

1:28:44saying the concern of the apprentice

1:28:46ratio should be two to one.

1:28:49As a smaller business, I've been through

1:28:51some struggles and have worked through

1:28:53them with the one to one ratio

1:28:55in a scenarios where

1:28:57um, I have

1:28:59apprentices and they could just leave

1:29:01with no

1:29:02no penalties, nothing, which is their

1:29:04right to do so, but then in a four-year

1:29:06apprenticeship, say you're three years

1:29:07through it and that guy decides to go to

1:29:09a different company, I have to start all

1:29:11over building my business again.

1:29:13All because of that one to one ratio,

1:29:14whereas if it was a two to one ratio,

1:29:16both guys wouldn't walk away. They

1:29:18would, you know, you you have a chance

1:29:19to keep your business building. So, I

1:29:21don't think that, um, that one to one

1:29:23ratio is probably a little low

1:29:25considering all the other trades have

1:29:27way more apprentice ratio. I mean, as a

1:29:29journeyman plumber and a master plumber,

1:29:31I'm more than capable of training and

1:29:33and teaching more than one apprentice at

1:29:35a time, which is the intent of the one

1:29:36to one ratio because we want to keep an

1:29:38eye on our apprentices in our plumbing

1:29:40and keep it quality.

1:29:41But, everybody in the field knows that

1:29:43we all work with more than one

1:29:44apprentice at a time and we want that

1:29:47one to one ratio

1:29:48should be two two one ratio.

1:29:50Um, on the note of the PVC thing, well,

1:29:53there's like Dave mentioned, um, I'm

1:29:54plumbing a Chick-fil-A right now.

1:29:56In 10 years from now, it's all going to

1:29:58happen all the grease lines are going to

1:29:59be rotted out. And then that's going to

1:30:01put a lot of cost on the business owners

1:30:03that shouldn't have to happen. We

1:30:05shouldn't I mean there's there's code

1:30:07parts in there that allow you to run PVC

1:30:08for portions of that, but then it just

1:30:10runs right back into the cast iron. It's

1:30:12all still in the line it rots it out. We

1:30:14all see it and that can be prevented if

1:30:16we would just allow the PVC switch. And

1:30:19everybody's fearing that we're going to

1:30:20lose labor. We're not going to lose

1:30:21labor. We're going to have a lot of

1:30:22building because the amount of money the

1:30:24building owners are going to save we can

1:30:25build more buildings.

1:30:27And that'll keep us all working and the

1:30:28city's growing. So, I I feel like

1:30:30that needs to definitely be addressed.

1:30:32Um,

1:30:34that's it.

1:30:35Thank you.

1:30:36>> Other proponents.

1:30:43>> [clears throat]

1:30:47>> Larry Store, 5015 Lafayette Avenue, New

1:30:49Omaha, Nebraska.

1:30:5168132.

1:30:53>> [clears throat]

1:30:55>> I'm for this because I'd like to expose

1:30:59the how the rules get changed

1:31:02after our meetings and after our votes

1:31:04by amendments.

1:31:07And one example, for example,

1:31:10is today the rules were changed by

1:31:12allowing people to have more than 3

1:31:13minutes as you said at the start.

1:31:17Nobody was given more than 3 minutes.

1:31:19>> not presentation.

1:31:20>> correcting you

1:31:21>> You said this is a hearing night.

1:31:22>> You're you're incorrect.

1:31:23>> 3 minutes each.

1:31:24>> You get 3 minutes. You're factually

1:31:26incorrect on that.

1:31:27>> See how you're treating me?

1:31:28>> I am giving you your time.

1:31:29>> going to treat the plumbers?

1:31:30>> When I am correcting you that nobody was

1:31:32given more than 3 minutes other than the

1:31:34presenter.

1:31:37Have him removed. You're not following

1:31:39the rules now, Larry. Have him removed.

1:31:43You're removed. You know the rules

1:31:44better than anybody. If you want to

1:31:46disrupt a meeting with nonsense, then

1:31:48you're going to be removed. Thank you.

1:31:51Any other proponents here today?

1:31:55Proponents. Any other pro opponents?

1:32:00Seeing none, are there any opponents?

1:32:13>> Thank [clears throat] you for your time.

1:32:14My name is Albert Adams, 322 South 3rd

1:32:17Street, Ceresco, Nebraska. I have been I

1:32:20am the field foreman for Walden Air

1:32:22Plumbing Service. I have been plumbing

1:32:24for 28 years and the last six have been

1:32:26here in Omaha.

1:32:28Um

1:32:29>> [clears throat]

1:32:29>> I was a member of the code review

1:32:31committee. That is what I would like to

1:32:33bring in to attention. Uh we had three

1:32:36meetings, although I heard it was four,

1:32:38but I recall three. Uh

1:32:40on our first one we were introduced to

1:32:42each other. Lay announced that this is

1:32:44not a democracy, you do not get a vote.

1:32:47Uh you are to provide feedback, but at

1:32:49the end of the day the city will do is

1:32:51going to do what is best for the city.

1:32:53Meeting two had shrunken in size. We

1:32:56discussed changes that seemed small and

1:32:59reasonable.

1:33:00Uh meeting three had shrunk even more.

1:33:02We discussed the larger things on the

1:33:04table. I had offered input that improved

1:33:07the plan and it was well received. When

1:33:10I brought up concerns about the changes,

1:33:13uh it was quickly dismissed with vague

1:33:15responses.

1:33:16The conversation focused on whoever was

1:33:20saying something favorable. Uh the

1:33:22meeting ended with the belief that they

1:33:24were going to allow plastic in all

1:33:26buildings up to 20 stories, uh which I

1:33:29did not support.

1:33:31Um I have not been contacted since then

1:33:34and I have not received any updated

1:33:36material. I have recently learned that

1:33:39some areas have expanded past those

1:33:41limits.

1:33:42Uh while there are some changes I

1:33:44support uh

1:33:46in this, as a whole I have to speak out

1:33:49against it because I feel that uh this

1:33:53process was rushed, not thoroughly put

1:33:55together, and overall a bad move for

1:33:58Omaha.

1:33:59I came from an area with model uh codes.

1:34:02I know great people there.

1:34:04But, in comparison, the average plumber

1:34:07in Omaha is superior to the average

1:34:10plumber where I came from.

1:34:12Yeah, I would be extremely disappointed

1:34:15if this trade and this city suffered

1:34:18from a poor plan with a good intention.

1:34:22And I am available for any questions.

1:34:24Thank you.

1:34:25>> Thank you.

1:34:27Other

1:34:28opponents. Can we get a show of hands

1:34:30from the number of opponents?

1:34:32Okay, thank you.

1:34:39>> Uh Ben Morgan

1:34:41uh Plumbers Local 16, 7220 F Street.

1:34:45Uh good afternoon. My name is Ben

1:34:47Morgan. I am the training coordinator

1:34:48for Plumbers Local 16.

1:34:51We currently train more than 150

1:34:53apprentices in a 5-year program with

1:34:56over 200 hours of training each year.

1:34:59Our job is to prepare the next

1:35:01generation of plumbers to protect the

1:35:02health and safety of our community.

1:35:05I am here today in opposition to this

1:35:07proposed uh plumbing code change.

1:35:10I support much of this code rewrite. My

1:35:13opposition is not to updating our code.

1:35:16My opposition is to weakening it.

1:35:19>> [clears throat]

1:35:20>> My concern is that we are allowing cost

1:35:22savings for the developers to take

1:35:24priority over public health and safety.

1:35:27Public or plastic piping materials

1:35:29deserve serious

1:35:31consideration when it comes to drinking

1:35:33water quality

1:35:35and fire safety. These materials are

1:35:37hidden behind the walls, but the

1:35:39consequences of the their decisions our

1:35:42decisions are not.

1:35:44Cheaper materials for a uh for a

1:35:47developer do not automatically mean more

1:35:49affordable homes for the people buying

1:35:51them.

1:35:53If the savings go to the builder while

1:35:55the public takes on the risk, who really

1:35:57benefits?

1:35:58We also need to recognize that Omaha

1:36:00already allows approved PVC and PEX-a

1:36:04materials in residential construction,

1:36:07including affordable housing. We should

1:36:09not weaken our standards based on claims

1:36:12of our current code prevents affordable

1:36:14housing from being built. It does.

1:36:17I travel across the country for

1:36:19trainings and speak with plumbing

1:36:20training directors from other

1:36:22communities across the nation.

1:36:24Omaha's strong plumbing code earns

1:36:26respect.

1:36:28We have built a reputation for high

1:36:29standards along cities like New York and

1:36:32Chicago.

1:36:33Why would we give up that advantage to

1:36:35the to save developers a little money on

1:36:37the materials being hidden behind our

1:36:39walls?

1:36:40>> [sighs and gasps]

1:36:41>> As a training coordinator, I have a

1:36:42responsibility to the apprentices we

1:36:44train and to the public who will depend

1:36:47on their work.

1:36:48We teach our apprentices to do things

1:36:50right, follow proven standards, and

1:36:52never cut corners

1:36:54when public safety is at stake.

1:36:56Our plumbing code should reflect those

1:36:57same principles.

1:37:00I am proud to be a plumber in Omaha. I

1:37:02am proud of our training program, our

1:37:04standards, and the reputation our trade

1:37:06has earned. I want the next generation

1:37:08to inherit a code they can be proud of,

1:37:10not one that sacrifices high standards

1:37:13for cheaper construction.

1:37:15We can support uh affordable housing

1:37:17without sacrificing public safety. We

1:37:20can modernize our code without weakening

1:37:22it. I respectfully urge you to reject

1:37:25the proposed changes that would weaken

1:37:27Omaha's plumbing code and preserve the

1:37:29high standards that protect

1:37:30protect our community and make

1:37:32our trade strong. Thank you.

1:37:34>> Thank you. Other opponents.

1:37:47>> Good afternoon, members of the City

1:37:48Council. My name is Carl Paris, 3622

1:37:51South 118th Street, Omaha, Nebraska

1:37:5368144.

1:37:55Uh I'm a journeyman plumber. I've been

1:37:56born and raised here in Omaha, and I

1:37:58serve as the president of Plumbers Local

1:38:0016.

1:38:01I stand before you today as somebody who

1:38:03spent his career working in homes and

1:38:04buildings in our great city.

1:38:07Like you, I believe the health and

1:38:08safety of our citizens must be our top

1:38:10priority.

1:38:12When I hear the word safety, I think of

1:38:13the highly trained skilled plumbers who

1:38:15do work throughout Omaha. It takes over

1:38:177,000 hours and 4 years of an

1:38:20apprenticeship to become a journeyman

1:38:21plumber.

1:38:22A training exists for a reason.

1:38:25To protect the public and to ensure the

1:38:27work behind your walls and under your

1:38:28floors is done correctly. That is our

1:38:31standard. That is the standard you hold

1:38:33us to.

1:38:34This is why I have concerns with

1:38:36proposed changes to sections 49-218,

1:38:3849-257, particularly when they affect

1:38:41training requirements for apprentice

1:38:42ratios.

1:38:43When we reduce training requirements and

1:38:45allow higher ratios without evaluating

1:38:47the consequences, we must ask ourselves,

1:38:50are we maintaining the level of skill

1:38:52and accountability that the public

1:38:53demands?

1:38:55As a working father, I also understand

1:38:56the importance of affordability.

1:38:59But affordability must not be measured

1:39:01over the

1:39:02must be measured over the life of a

1:39:03building, not just by what it costs in

1:39:05construction today's time.

1:39:07Skilled local workers earn their living

1:39:09right here.

1:39:10They support their families right here.

1:39:13And they invest their wages right back

1:39:15here in Omaha.

1:39:17That value of properly trained workforce

1:39:19extends far beyond the job site. It is

1:39:22an extension of our community.

1:39:24I understand that building codes must

1:39:26change and evolve, and Plumbers Local 16

1:39:29has been answering that call from Omaha

1:39:31for more than 137 years.

1:39:35And we intend to be

1:39:37your partners in our collective future.

1:39:40We need to understand these materials

1:39:41better

1:39:42to understand their long-term

1:39:44reliability in our buildings and in our

1:39:46homes.

1:39:47Whether that's West Omaha or whether

1:39:49that's North Omaha,

1:39:50these are not questions we should answer

1:39:52with a broad change to the code without

1:39:54fully examining the potential

1:39:56consequences. We should evaluate

1:39:58building types and applications

1:40:00individually, rely on sound technical

1:40:02evidence, and make sure inspectors have

1:40:04clear enforceable standards.

1:40:07Members of the City Council,

1:40:09I respectfully ask you to oppose the

1:40:11changes of the current form in their

1:40:13current form and send this ordinance

1:40:15back to the plumbing board for further

1:40:16review.

1:40:18There is a familiar saying in our

1:40:20industry.

1:40:21You can have it fast,

1:40:23you can have it cheap, or you can have

1:40:25it right.

1:40:27You pick two.

1:40:29When it comes to the health and safety

1:40:31of Omaha citizens, getting it right

1:40:33cannot be optional.

1:40:36Thank you for your time and your service

1:40:37to our community.

1:40:39>> Thank you. Other opponents, if you guys

1:40:41want to move down maybe to the front

1:40:42row, we can make this in a more timely

1:40:45manner.

1:40:46Thanks.

1:40:49>> Hello, my name is Brian Wyatt. My

1:40:51address is 5909 South 99th Court,

1:40:54apartment 1B.

1:40:56Um I am with Local 16 as well and I

1:40:59think I have a particular view on this.

1:41:02Our starting one with

1:41:04when I originally got into this trade, I

1:41:06never really wanted to do it. I took a

1:41:08few months as laboring and found a love

1:41:11for it, so I I want to keep that around

1:41:14for the future generations coming up or

1:41:17even my younger siblings or anything

1:41:18like that.

1:41:20And I'm also worried that

1:41:23if we keep taking away the pride that

1:41:25comes with the trade, whether it's from

1:41:29you know, doing cast iron or copper

1:41:31work,

1:41:32people are going to going to start

1:41:33losing interest. I started out from

1:41:35apartments where it was just type or PEX

1:41:37type A or PVC. So, now I'm at a new

1:41:41company that's only cast iron copper

1:41:44work and I have found much enjoyment out

1:41:47of that and I'm

1:41:48I don't want anybody to lose that

1:41:50enjoyment that they can find from it.

1:41:54And I also think that I have a specific

1:41:57uh point of view from it being I I'm

1:42:00still young. I live in apartments right

1:42:02now. I I want to buy a home one day and

1:42:04I don't see a chance at us making

1:42:08plumbing work or the plumbing material

1:42:11cheaper, making housing cheaper.

1:42:14I just think that will put more money

1:42:16into the pockets of

1:42:19um the companies building houses.

1:42:22And I personally don't find a reason to

1:42:26cut down on what Omaha does have to

1:42:28offer. I've always wanted to move out of

1:42:31the state up until I started plumbing

1:42:34and then I saw how Omaha plumbing has a

1:42:37lot of potential and has a lot of great

1:42:40careers.

1:42:42And there's a lot of stuff you can do

1:42:43with it. I I personally just don't find

1:42:46a reason to change anything that they

1:42:48have going with it at least as of

1:42:50switching stuff to plastic. Obviously,

1:42:53there's always going to be stuff that

1:42:54needs to change or always going to find

1:42:56new stuff that

1:42:57whether it's, you know, science or math

1:43:00or whatever it is that we need to

1:43:01change.

1:43:02But I don't find a reason that we should

1:43:05be changing the type of material just

1:43:08because it's cheaper.

1:43:10And that's coming from somebody who is

1:43:11hoping to buy a house one day and

1:43:14it doesn't know how soon that will be

1:43:16possible.

1:43:18So, I I am very much pro keeping what we

1:43:22have going right now and just trying to

1:43:25introduce more plumbers and give them

1:43:27the opportunities because this is pretty

1:43:29much what got me out of not having

1:43:31anything to do with

1:43:33no future, you know, not knowing what I

1:43:35was going to do.

1:43:37So, I uh

1:43:39I I am very much pro keep what we have

1:43:42going and keep the education that we are

1:43:45offering and I find it

1:43:49much more interesting. I got to

1:43:51>> Your 3 minutes is up, so I appreciate

1:43:54you being down here today.

1:43:55>> Thank you.

1:43:55>> Thanks. Other opponents.

1:43:58>> [clears throat]

1:43:58>> Good afternoon.

1:43:60Uh my name's Tyler Johnson, 7617 Nina

1:44:03Street, Omaha, Nebraska.

1:44:04Um I'm a licensed journeyman plumber

1:44:06here in Omaha and a full-time instructor

1:44:08at Plumbers Local 16. I'm here today to

1:44:10express my opposition regarding the

1:44:12proposed expansion of PVC and Pex piping

1:44:14materials into multi-family, commercial,

1:44:17and [clears throat] schools.

1:44:18I want to be clear I'm not opposed to

1:44:20affordable housing, nor am I opposed to

1:44:22every proposed code change. These

1:44:24materials are already permitted in

1:44:25residential construction. My concern is

1:44:27expanding their use into larger, more

1:44:29complex

1:44:30buildings.

1:44:31Omaha's maintained strong plumbing

1:44:33standards centered around quality,

1:44:34durability, and protecting the health,

1:44:36safety, and welfare of our community.

1:44:38As an instructor, I teach future

1:44:40plumbers that our responsibility goes

1:44:42beyond simply installing pipe. We're

1:44:44responsible for protecting the people

1:44:46who depend on these systems every day.

1:44:49So, I ask this, what are we gaining by

1:44:51changing these standards and who truly

1:44:52benefits? We're told these changes will

1:44:55make construction more affordable, but

1:44:56what guarantees do we have that those

1:44:58savings will reach the families

1:44:59purchasing or renting these properties

1:45:01rather than simply increasing

1:45:03developers' profits?

1:45:04And before we expand these materials

1:45:06into our schools, shouldn't we be able

1:45:08to demonstrate that we're maintaining

1:45:10the same level of protection and

1:45:11long-term reliability our current

1:45:13standards were designed to provide?

1:45:16Omaha's plumbing code should reflect our

1:45:18commitment to building for generations,

1:45:20not simply building for the lowest

1:45:21initial cost. I respect respectfully ask

1:45:24this council to preserve the standards

1:45:26that have helped define the quality and

1:45:29integrity of our city's plumbing

1:45:31systems.

1:45:32And I urge that you reject this.

1:45:35Thank you.

1:45:39>> Robert Woodard, 7220 F Street, Omaha,

1:45:42Nebraska 68127.

1:45:45Good [clears throat] afternoon,

1:45:45President Begley and council members.

1:45:48I My again, my name is Robert Woodard.

1:45:49I'm licensed master plumber for 10-plus

1:45:51years here in the city of Omaha. I'm

1:45:53here today because I have serious

1:45:55concerns about the proposed revisions to

1:45:56the Omaha plumbing code. I believe the

1:45:58citizens of Omaha deserve better answers

1:46:00before these changes are made.

1:46:02For generations, plumbers have been

1:46:04entrusted with protecting the health and

1:46:05safety of the public. That

1:46:07responsibility is the foundation of our

1:46:09profession, and it should be the

1:46:11foundation of every decision that's made

1:46:13regarding our plumbing code. Having

1:46:15previously participated in the code

1:46:17committee, I understand how important it

1:46:18is to have knowledgeable professionals

1:46:20involved in reviewing those proposed

1:46:22changes.

1:46:23I'll ask I'll ask, why are we

1:46:24considering significant changes to our

1:46:26plumbing code without ensuring the

1:46:28professionals who understand these

1:46:29systems have had a meaningful

1:46:31opportunity to evaluate them?

1:46:33One of my big health concerns is the

1:46:34proposed expansion of plastic piping,

1:46:36including PEX. There are legitimate

1:46:38questions surrounding the long-term

1:46:40performance of these systems and their

1:46:41potential effects on drinking water.

1:46:43Before we approve their widespread use,

1:46:46we should demand clear answers supported

1:46:48by the independent research.

1:46:50Once these systems are installed behind

1:46:52walls or beneath the concrete, the

1:46:54consequences [clears throat] of getting

1:46:55it wrong could last for decades.

1:46:57Another troubling proposal is increasing

1:46:59the apprentice to journeyman ratio from

1:47:01one to one. Previously, I was the

1:47:03training coordinator at Plumbers Local

1:47:0416. Um the industry already struggles to

1:47:07provide apprentices with sufficient

1:47:10on-the-job training

1:47:12in an industry driven by demanding

1:47:14construction schedules.

1:47:16How does giving one journeyman twice as

1:47:18many apprentices improve training,

1:47:20supervision, or public safety?

1:47:23Then there's the proposal to move from

1:47:25annual licensing to a 2-year renewal

1:47:27cycle while keeping continued education

1:47:29at 8 hours.

1:47:30That cuts the annual education

1:47:32requirements in half.

1:47:33At a time when materials, technology,

1:47:36and installation requirements are

1:47:37changing, why would we want our licensed

1:47:39professionals to receive half as much

1:47:41training?

1:47:42I recognize construction costs matter. I

1:47:44recognize efficiency matters. But I

1:47:47would ask the council, at what point

1:47:48does reducing construction costs become

1:47:50more important than protecting the

1:47:51people who live in the buildings we're

1:47:53constructing? I'm not here to oppose

1:47:55progress. I'm here to oppose changes

1:47:57that have not been adequately justified.

1:47:59I'm asking the council to deny the

1:48:01approval required

1:48:02to and to require a thorough and

1:48:04transparent technical review and listen

1:48:07to experienced plumber plumbing

1:48:08professionals who will be responsible

1:48:09for implementing these changes. Because

1:48:12at the end of the day, the Omaha

1:48:13plumbing code should serve one purpose

1:48:15above all others.

1:48:16Protecting the health, safety, and

1:48:18welfare of the citizens of Omaha.

1:48:20That responsibility should not be

1:48:22compromised. Thank you.

1:48:24>> Thank you.

1:48:31>> Joe Boro,

1:48:337220 F Street, Omaha, Nebraska, 68127.

1:48:38Uh good afternoon. I am a licensed

1:48:40journeyman plumber and full-time

1:48:41instructor at Plumbers Local 16. I'm

1:48:44here today to voice my concerns about

1:48:46the proposed changes to the Omaha

1:48:47Plumbing Code. Um I do not disagree with

1:48:51all the changes uh to the code. Uh I

1:48:53completely understand that uh in order

1:48:56to move forward, we have to change,

1:48:58adapt, and grow.

1:48:59Uh same thing along with every aspect of

1:49:01life, right? If we don't move forward,

1:49:03we're moving backwards.

1:49:05Um I just uh

1:49:08want and hope for uh more care in uh

1:49:11doing this situation. Uh I'm also very

1:49:13confused on

1:49:15um

1:49:16the affordable housing. Uh I'd love that

1:49:18idea. I think anybody in Omaha would

1:49:20love the idea of affordable housing. Um

1:49:23but in our code as it exists today, uh

1:49:26PVC and PEX, all the cheaper material

1:49:29that uh we are wanted have exist. Uh

1:49:32that is allowed. Um in fact, in the

1:49:34opening statement, uh PVC's been allowed

1:49:37in in housing since '80s and uh PEX

1:49:40since 2015. So, that is already there.

1:49:43So, the changes that are proposed aren't

1:49:45going to help anything towards uh

1:49:48cheaper housing because it's uh I

1:49:50believe it's already there in black and

1:49:52white in our code.

1:49:53Um

1:49:55Last point I would I just want to make

1:49:57is that uh these proposed changes weaken

1:49:59our code extremely.

1:50:01Uh it moves our code closer to a

1:50:02universal code and it endangers the

1:50:04existence altogether.

1:50:06Our code as it stands now protects the

1:50:09workers who abide by it.

1:50:11It assures that the plumbing work in

1:50:12Omaha is done by the plumbers in Omaha,

1:50:15union and non-union alike.

1:50:18Keeps Omaha's money in Omaha and make

1:50:20sure it is not given away to any outside

1:50:22sources or workers.

1:50:25We're here cuz we care about this city

1:50:27and the people in it. I'm just asking

1:50:29that everybody's voice be heard. This

1:50:32decision

1:50:33takes more care and not as rushed.

1:50:36Thank you for your consideration.

1:50:37>> Thank you.

1:50:42>> Good afternoon, Council. Uh Eric

1:50:44Jesenka,

1:50:45business manager for Plumbers Local 16,

1:50:47address 10010

1:50:50South 201st Street, Gretna, Nebraska. Um

1:50:52I had quite a few comments for you, but

1:50:54everyone that went before me did such a

1:50:55great job, so I'm going to trim it up a

1:50:57little bit. Um one thing Joe hit on, I I

1:51:00think we do need to if we're going to

1:51:01talk about affordable housing, I think

1:51:03it needs to be defined.

1:51:04What is an affordable house? Because as

1:51:06Joe said, since 2015, a lot of these

1:51:09changes have already been in place. Um

1:51:11the I understand the

1:51:13water line going into the house may be a

1:51:15good change, and that's one thing the

1:51:17code review got off to a good start on.

1:51:18I believe they got off to a great start

1:51:21with their meetings, but at some point

1:51:23it became a bit of a free-for-all, in my

1:51:24opinion.

1:51:26Um Local 16's been around since 1890.

1:51:29We're over 710 members at this moment,

1:51:32and we work nearly a million man-hours

1:51:35every year installing, designing,

1:51:38servicing plumbing systems. Not sure if

1:51:40you're going to find an organization

1:51:41more committed to plumbing than we are.

1:51:44That uh knowledge

1:51:46has been underutilized in this process.

1:51:48So, I would like to ask Council to send

1:51:50this back to review,

1:51:52utilize the resources that this city

1:51:54has, including those 700 members of

1:51:56ours.

1:51:57They have seen everything, they've

1:51:58worked on everything, and they're very

1:52:00valuable, and they can be valuable to

1:52:01this city. So, thank you.

1:52:03>> Thank you.

1:52:04Other opponents.

1:52:11>> Good afternoon, Council. My name is

1:52:13David Miller. I am uh the master plumber

1:52:16for Manelli Mechanical Contractors here

1:52:18in Omaha, 8701 North 29th Street.

1:52:22I am here to

1:52:24oppose the code changes. Um when a

1:52:28family signs an apartment lease, they

1:52:29cannot inspect every pipe connection or

1:52:31opening between floors. They rely on

1:52:34people who build, inspect, and regulate

1:52:37buildings to protect them.

1:52:39Omaha's plumbing and building codes

1:52:41should honor that trust.

1:52:43The city of Omaha is currently proposing

1:52:45changes to plumbing and building codes

1:52:47as part of an effort to make housing

1:52:49more affordable.

1:52:51Residents deserve to know the building

1:52:53that they live in is both affordable and

1:52:55safe.

1:52:56As the former master plumber for the

1:52:59city of Omaha plumbing board, I believe

1:53:01city council members must better

1:53:03understand the safety risks before

1:53:05expanding plastic drain, waste, and vent

1:53:07piping in multi-story buildings.

1:53:11A fire test every layer of protection in

1:53:13a building. Walls and floors designed to

1:53:15contain fire help give people time to

1:53:17escape and firefighters time to respond.

1:53:21Plumbing passes through these those

1:53:23barriers. An inadequate protected

1:53:26opening can become a route for fire and

1:53:28smoke to each other space.

1:53:31Plumbing pipe material matters. Cast

1:53:33iron does not burn. Plastic pipe can

1:53:35lose its shape or melt when exposed to

1:53:38sufficient heat and can release toxic

1:53:41gases when it burns or melts.

1:53:44Firestop systems for plastic piping must

1:53:46be properly installed, maintained, and

1:53:48regularly inspected. Failing in any of

1:53:50those actions could be deadly to

1:53:52residents and firefighters.

1:53:54Proper protection depends on effective

1:53:56enforcement. Who will inspect these

1:53:58installations, ensure defects are

1:54:00corrected, and verify that later repairs

1:54:03preserve fire protection? Will

1:54:05inspectors have the training and

1:54:07resources they need? Residents deserve

1:54:10answers before codes change.

1:54:12Finding answers to those questions

1:54:14requires an open review process for the

1:54:16proposed code changes.

1:54:19A lawsuit against Omaha alleges that

1:54:21revised documents were unavailable

1:54:23during the board's consideration and

1:54:25public comment was denied before a vote.

1:54:29Those allegations demand public

1:54:31explanation.

1:54:32>> [clears throat]

1:54:33>> Meaningful review requires access to the

1:54:35proposed language and an opportunity to

1:54:37challenge it. Plumbers, firefighters,

1:54:39inspectors must be heard, their safety

1:54:42concerns addressed and public addressed

1:54:44publicly before officials act on any

1:54:46code changes.

1:54:48Affordability claims deserve the same

1:54:50public scrutiny. City leaders should

1:54:52explain whether developers who stand to

1:54:55profit from the lower construction costs

1:54:57requested these changes and how any

1:54:59savings would reach tenants.

1:55:02Greater developer profits do not

1:55:03guarantee lower rents or justify

1:55:06weakening safety protections.

1:55:08The push for affordable housing makes

1:55:10the scrutiny even more necessary.

1:55:12Families struggling with the rent have

1:55:14>> got to cut you off. Your 3 minutes is

1:55:16up, but I appreciate you being here

1:55:17today.

1:55:18>> Anyway, please consider these safety

1:55:20concerns. Thank you.

1:55:21>> Thank you.

1:55:22>> Thank you. Other opponents here today.

1:55:28>> Uh Matthew Christopherson

1:55:3110704

1:55:33South 175th Street, Omaha, Nebraska.

1:55:37So, I am the chairman of the Omaha

1:55:39Plumbing Board. I was one of the votes

1:55:41that voted no.

1:55:43Um

1:55:44like everybody else kind of said, I'm

1:55:46all for progress, new code. We really

1:55:48need it. It's been a long time.

1:55:51But, couple of things made me vote no.

1:55:54One of them was that we need more

1:55:56clarification on where we can allow PVC

1:55:59and cast. So, there are occupancy types

1:56:03that we have listed

1:56:05and explains if you can use PVC or cast

1:56:09in that occupancy type, but we don't

1:56:10have something that says if you have a

1:56:13building that has multiple occupancy

1:56:14types,

1:56:16what are we going to do then, right? Do

1:56:17we sandwich PVC cast, half floor PVC

1:56:20half floor cast? We need to have some

1:56:23more clarity on that. And then, like

1:56:25everybody else kind of said, the biggest

1:56:27reason

1:56:28that I voted no was just health safety

1:56:31health safety stuff. I mean, I had a lot

1:56:33of people come in front of the board and

1:56:37their big concern was what happens when

1:56:40this stuff catches on fire. And the last

1:56:43thing I want to do is approve a code

1:56:45without 100% knowing that it is safe for

1:56:49the people of Omaha.

1:56:51So, that's all I got. Thank you.

1:56:53>> Thank you.

1:56:55Other opponents.

1:57:04>> Jeff Esterbrook, 6225 South 43rd Street,

1:57:07Omaha, Nebraska.

1:57:09I've been a master plumber here in Omaha

1:57:11area for 35 years. I was 20 years on the

1:57:14plumbing board as vice chairman.

1:57:16And I went through a couple of these

1:57:17code changes and there was a lot more

1:57:19transparency. We were invited to

1:57:21meetings, although we're being a board

1:57:22member, we couldn't be on the actual

1:57:24code review. We were still got invited,

1:57:27input, talk about it.

1:57:29I don't feel like there's been many of

1:57:31that. I think they admitted they had one

1:57:33meeting and I was at that open meeting

1:57:35and we gave our advice and I think it

1:57:37fell on deaf ears.

1:57:39Um

1:57:40the plastic thing, I I think you're

1:57:42going to hear that to death here

1:57:43shortly. So, I'm not going to touch on

1:57:44that too much. As a

1:57:4620-year member, we were headed towards

1:57:48um

1:57:49letting it go underground. We think

1:57:50that's a good product. Above ground, I

1:57:52don't

1:57:53think so. I think there needs some

1:57:54problems there, but like you said, the

1:57:55fire and that.

1:57:57Uh keeping it short, there's uh code

1:57:59there is some things that we like and

1:58:01there's a lot of things we don't like. I

1:58:02mean, you can write down the list. The

1:58:03very first one, 49-116,

1:58:06keeping the chairman. The the The way

1:58:09they got it stated is the chairman can

1:58:10only serve one term and then he has to

1:58:13get out and let a new one. Can I ask you

1:58:14guys, how long is your chairman? Who's

1:58:16your chairman?

1:58:17How long are you chairman for?

1:58:21Okay. Uh next one is

1:58:2349-204.

1:58:25Um

1:58:27the testing.

1:58:28We have it set up and we set it up this

1:58:30way because you get four tries within a

1:58:32year to to pass the journeyman or the

1:58:34masters. At that time, you can whatever

1:58:37part part you pass, you can not take

1:58:39that again. After four tries or 1 year,

1:58:42you have to take all four parts over

1:58:43again.

1:58:44We felt like that would push people into

1:58:46studying. We want good people out there.

1:58:48I think you want good plumbers in your

1:58:50houses, in your buildings. You don't

1:58:52want to jeopardize that.

1:58:54Um

1:58:56Another one is they're lowering the

1:58:58experience of a city inspector to It

1:59:01used to be 7 years and now it's down

1:59:04to there is none, so.

1:59:05Anyway, there's quite a few things that

1:59:07a lot of us don't like. As you can see,

1:59:08there's a lot of people here that are

1:59:10against this. So, please let's ask them

1:59:12to go back to the drawing board and

1:59:13start over. Talk to some of these folks.

1:59:16There's some smart people here that can

1:59:18help you guys out, so. Again, thanks for

1:59:20your time.

1:59:20>> Thank you.

1:59:27>> It'll work itself out.

1:59:29It'll work itself out, okay?

1:59:32>> Hey, good afternoon. My name is Brian

1:59:33Helms and I've worked for Charlotte Pipe

1:59:34and Foundry Company, the only

1:59:36manufacturer of both plastic and cast

1:59:38iron pipe and fitting systems in the

1:59:40plumbing industry for over 28 years.

1:59:43Our company is uniquely qualified to

1:59:45provide input on both materials.

1:59:47Charlotte Pipe, however, is not the

1:59:49market leader here in Omaha. And

1:59:52although some of the proposed changes

1:59:53may benefit our company, we believe that

1:59:56they are detrimental to both the

1:59:57industry and the city.

2:00:00I want to focus on one specific

2:00:01provision that gets to the heart of the

2:00:03issue, and that's the proposed proposed

2:00:05revision to section 49-549.

2:00:08That proposal would require wastewater

2:00:10above 120° F to use sanitary drainage

2:00:11piping to use sanitary drainage piping

2:00:14rated for the highest temperature of the

2:00:16wastewater. If that seems confusing

2:00:19confusing or vague to you, you're not

2:00:21alone. Let me explain why that matters.

2:00:23Proponents of this change will tell you

2:00:26that this language is just like the

2:00:27model codes, but that's not true.

2:00:30They previously pointed out that it

2:00:32follows the guidance from the Uniform

2:00:33Plumbing Code, and that's not true,

2:00:35either. It's actually from the

2:00:36International Plumbing Code, but it's

2:00:38been modified even further to lower the

2:00:41plumbing code standards. Keep in mind

2:00:44that this is a model code, which is

2:00:46normally amended further by

2:00:48municipalities and states for more

2:00:49stringent requirements.

2:00:51That is not the case here.

2:00:53The proposal is actually lower the

2:00:55standards.

2:00:57And let's look at that temperature

2:00:58threshold. You see the IPC uses 140° F,

2:01:01not 120, and that's important. It's

2:01:04important because we should be asking

2:01:06ourselves what commonly used piping

2:01:08material doesn't meet 120°

2:01:11PVC, ABS, copper, stainless steel, cast

2:01:14iron, polypropylene, CPVC, and even PD

2:01:16PVDF products can meet and exceed that

2:01:19temperature.

2:01:21But are all these products suitable for

2:01:23drainage? For DWV?

2:01:25The answer is no. Quite frankly, even a

2:01:27garden hose can withstand 120° F,

2:01:31but that doesn't make it acceptable for

2:01:33a building sanitary drainage system.

2:01:35And that's the issue. Temperature

2:01:37capability alone does not make a product

2:01:39appropriate for drain, waste, and vent,

2:01:41or DWV applications. Product standards

2:01:43and listings matter. Now, consider

2:01:45what's missing here.

2:01:47The IPC doesn't just make a 140°

2:01:50requirement. It couples it with a table

2:01:52of allowable materials.

2:01:54Narrowing down these options.

2:01:56Guess which code doesn't have an

2:01:57allowable material table.

2:01:59Omaha.

2:02:01So, while plumbing code should be the

2:02:02minimum require- requirement,

2:02:04[clears throat]

2:02:05what is being proposed in this section

2:02:06isn't a code requirement at all. It's an

2:02:08invitation for any product to be used,

2:02:11whether it should be or not.

2:02:14Temperature rating is not a substitute

2:02:15for an industry standard. And I humbly

2:02:17ask the council to vote no to these

2:02:19amendments, and yes, for the safety of

2:02:23all the residents of Omaha.

2:02:25Thank you. Thank you.

2:02:27Are there opponents?

2:02:33Can we please not be giggling, or you're

2:02:35going to have to be removed? Thank you.

2:02:38I'm talking to you.

2:02:40Thank you.

2:02:43>> Good afternoon, city council members and

2:02:45other distinguished guests. My name is

2:02:47Harry Patel. I hold a degree in

2:02:48mechanical engineering along with a

2:02:50masters in business.

2:02:51I stand before you today to address this

2:02:53proposal to reduce restrictions on

2:02:55plastic piping.

2:02:56From an engineering standpoint, one of

2:02:58the most critical decisions that we make

2:03:00is material selection.

2:03:02This decision is not just a technical

2:03:03skill. It is a societal stewardship

2:03:05dedicated to protecting life safety, an

2:03:08obligation included in my oath as an

2:03:10engineer.

2:03:11As engineers, we must consider the

2:03:13critical moments when conditions become

2:03:14abnormal and lives are at risk.

2:03:17In these moments,

2:03:18we have to understand that metallic

2:03:20piping is inherently non-combustible,

2:03:22does not contribute fuel to a fire, and

2:03:24does not melt away when exposed to

2:03:25elevated temperatures.

2:03:27By contrast, plastics are combustible

2:03:29and depend heavily on intricate fire

2:03:31stop systems.

2:03:32Every fire stop assembly required for

2:03:34plastics becomes another variable that

2:03:36must perform exactly as intended,

2:03:38potentially decades after its

2:03:40installation.

2:03:42Council members, are you prepared to

2:03:43tell the constituents of Omaha's lowest

2:03:45income districts that they should accept

2:03:47reduced fire safety and diminished

2:03:48escape times for the promise of savings

2:03:51that will likely never materialize?

2:03:53Because the residents most affected by

2:03:54this decision are often those with the

2:03:56fewest resources and fewest housing

2:03:58choices.

2:03:59A fire does not distinguish between rich

2:04:01and poor, and neither should our safety

2:04:03standards.

2:04:04High-rise fire safety is not just a

2:04:06theoretical risk. The Las Vegas MGM

2:04:08Grand Casino fire in 1980 still to this

2:04:11day remains the deadliest disaster in

2:04:12Nevada history, claiming 85 lives and

2:04:15injuring hundreds more.

2:04:17Communities never think that they'll

2:04:18become the next headline until they are.

2:04:21My concern is very simple. In 2006 2026,

2:04:25Omaha should be raising the bar for life

2:04:27safety, not lowering it.

2:04:29I've heard several people say that this

2:04:30proposal is really about giving

2:04:32developers more choice.

2:04:34Respectfully, when public safety is

2:04:35involved, we do not always leave every

2:04:37single option on the table.

2:04:39We do not allow builders to choose

2:04:41whether or not to install fire alarms or

2:04:42whether or not to follow structural

2:04:44requirements. Building codes exist

2:04:46because some choices carry consequences

2:04:48that extend far beyond the building

2:04:49owner.

2:04:50Omaha deserves continued investment and

2:04:52development, but the purpose of a

2:04:54building code has never been to identify

2:04:56the cheapest option for developers.

2:04:58Choice ends where public safety begins,

2:05:01a fact that the city of Omaha has

2:05:02understood for many years.

2:05:04The product that we approve of today

2:05:05will likely remain in service long after

2:05:07every person in this room has moved on.

2:05:09That is the essence of engineering

2:05:10stewardship. Our obligation is not only

2:05:13to today's construction budget, but also

2:05:15to tomorrow's occupants, first

2:05:16responders, building owners, and future

2:05:19generations who inherit the decisions

2:05:20that we make.

2:05:22They are trusting us to get this right.

2:05:24Because once a tragedy occurs, there is

2:05:26no second vote. For this and other

2:05:28reasons, I respectfully urge this

2:05:30council to reject the proposed code

2:05:31changes and preserve Omaha's

2:05:33long-standing commitment to life safety.

2:05:35Thank you for your time.

2:05:36>> Thank you. Other opponents.

2:05:40>> [clears throat]

2:05:45>> Good afternoon. Brian South, 1092 Button

2:05:48Rock Drive.

2:05:49I serve as the product director of

2:05:51product engineering for Mac Wayne

2:05:52Plumbing Group. I hold a bachelor's

2:05:54degree and a master's degree in

2:05:55mechanical engineering along with a

2:05:57business degree.

2:05:59Throughout my career designing and

2:06:00evaluating engineered systems, I've

2:06:02learned one lesson that never changes.

2:06:04Material selection matters.

2:06:07The choices made today determine a

2:06:08building's safety, reliability, and

2:06:10performance for decades to come.

2:06:12Today, I urge you to reject the proposal

2:06:14to allow plastic piping in commercial

2:06:15buildings and high-rise construction.

2:06:18Much of the discussion around this

2:06:19proposal has focused on installation

2:06:21cost.

2:06:22As an engineer, I'm more concerned with

2:06:23long-term performance, reliability,

2:06:26maintenance, and risk.

2:06:28Quite simply, I am not willing to trade

2:06:30dollars for lives.

2:06:33Metal and plastic piping do not perform

2:06:34the same, and those differences matter

2:06:36in commercial construction.

2:06:38One important concern is thermal

2:06:39expansion. Metal piping expands and

2:06:41contracts at rates similar to the steel

2:06:43and concrete that make up commercial

2:06:45structures.

2:06:46PVC moves significantly more with

2:06:48temperature changes. Over time, that

2:06:50movement can stress joints and

2:06:51connections leading to leaks, sewer gas

2:06:54release, and damage to fire-rated

2:06:56assemblies.

2:06:58Which brings me to my greatest concern,

2:06:59which is fire stopping.

2:07:02Fire-rated walls and floors are designed

2:07:03to slow the spread of fire, smoke, and

2:07:05toxic gases giving occupants time to

2:07:07escape and first responders time to

2:07:09react.

2:07:11Fire stopping is not a system that can

2:07:13be partially successful.

2:07:15If the integrity of that assembly is

2:07:16compromised, lives are put at risk.

2:07:19Metal piping is non-combustible.

2:07:22Plastic piping is fuel for a fire.

2:07:25In a fire, PVC will soften, melt, burn,

2:07:27and leave openings that depend on

2:07:29specialized fire stopping systems

2:07:31functioning perfectly for the life of

2:07:33the building.

2:07:34And that raises an important question.

2:07:36Does the city have the resources,

2:07:38training, and inspection capacity

2:07:39necessary to oversee those additional

2:07:41systems?

2:07:43Furthermore, the narrative that PVC will

2:07:45save on material cost is true, but it's

2:07:47a half-truth.

2:07:48Increase in fire stopping assemblies

2:07:51offset the material savings.

2:07:53Only the developers save money, not the

2:07:55citizens.

2:07:56I understand that affordable housing has

2:07:58been cited for a reason in this

2:07:59proposal, and we support affordable

2:08:01housing. But, affordable should never

2:08:03mean accepting lower safety standards.

2:08:05The people who live and work in these

2:08:06buildings, regardless of income level,

2:08:08deserve the same level of protection.

2:08:10In fact, lower income communities are

2:08:12often the least able to absorb future

2:08:14maintenance, repair, or replacement

2:08:16costs, yet they deserve the same life

2:08:17expectancy, life safety expectations as

2:08:20everyone else in Omaha.

2:08:21I would encourage the council not to be

2:08:23penny wise and pound foolish. The lowest

2:08:25initial cost is not always the lowest

2:08:27lifetime cost. The decisions you make

2:08:30today will affect Omaha's building and

2:08:31citizens for generations. For these

2:08:33reasons, I respectfully ask you to

2:08:35reject this proposal and require a more

2:08:37thorough evaluation of the long-term

2:08:38performance and life safety implications

2:08:40of allowing combustible plastic piping

2:08:42in commercial and high-rise buildings.

2:08:44Thank you for your time and

2:08:45consideration.

2:08:46>> Thank you.

2:08:48Other opponents.

2:08:56>> Good afternoon. My name is Victor

2:08:57Hatcher, 1573 North E King Lane, Ponce

2:09:01de Leon, Florida.

2:09:02I am the director of codes and standards

2:09:04for the McCoy Plumbing Group. I have

2:09:07been in the plumbing industry for over

2:09:0826 years. 19 years of that has been

2:09:11directly working with codes and

2:09:13standards development.

2:09:16>> [clears throat]

2:09:18>> Some of my concerns with the changes and

2:09:20some of my opposition is truly based on

2:09:23the life safety aspect.

2:09:26My big concerns being that the toxicity

2:09:29of plastic materials as they burn.

2:09:31There are studies that are out there

2:09:33that PVC can burn, release hydrogen

2:09:37chloride gas. And what that does is when

2:09:40it enters into the respiratory system,

2:09:42combines with the water, it becomes

2:09:44hydrochloric acid.

2:09:46That time period in which it actually

2:09:48can exceed the acute levels, health

2:09:51levels,

2:09:52is 3 minutes or less.

2:09:54Uh there's also a great deal of

2:09:57information

2:09:58when it comes to the

2:10:00egress aspect and getting people out in

2:10:03from a fire situation.

2:10:07When you have a taller building and it

2:10:09has all of these materials that burn and

2:10:11contribute to the flame and the smoke

2:10:13that's there, that smoke is going to be

2:10:15more dense. It carries those toxins.

2:10:18You're going to have to get those people

2:10:19out. When you have that taller building,

2:10:21it begs to reason that you're going to

2:10:23take longer to get out of that building

2:10:25by navigating stairs and and the

2:10:28associated items to get out and egress

2:10:30that building. It's also going to take a

2:10:33longer period of time for the first

2:10:35responders to actually locate people

2:10:37during a fire because of the density of

2:10:39smoke

2:10:40and the other portions that go into it.

2:10:43With the

2:10:44other concern being that the fire

2:10:46trucks, the ladder trucks, Omaha has

2:10:49ladder trucks that are approximately 100

2:10:51ft. That only provides a maximum in

2:10:54ideal condition reach of 75 ft.

2:10:59Because they have to be at an angle.

2:11:01So now evacuating people out of a fire,

2:11:03if that condition is above that 75 ft

2:11:06and up to whatever how many stories,

2:11:08that could be a problem.

2:11:10Additionally, you have to concern

2:11:11yourself with the people that would have

2:11:14to {quote} {unquote} shelter in place.

2:11:16Those individuals are going to be

2:11:18typically the ones that have some

2:11:20disability that they're not able to go

2:11:21down the stairs or some other, you know,

2:11:24health concern that stops them from

2:11:27happening uh going down those stairs.

2:11:29So,

2:11:29we would have to

2:11:31think about the res- the first

2:11:32responders going in and rescuing those

2:11:34residents.

2:11:36For those reasons, I request that you

2:11:39reject these proposals. Thank you for

2:11:41your time.

2:11:41>> Thank you. Other opponents.

2:11:45How many opponents do we have left to

2:11:47testify? Show of hands.

2:11:48>> Ma'am, the mic is off.

2:11:50>> I got

2:11:51Thanks.

2:11:58Thanks.

2:11:59Thanks.

2:12:14>> Thank you very much. My name is Jack

2:12:16Wintro with the Cast Iron Soil Pipe

2:12:17Institute, 2401 Fieldcrest Drive,

2:12:20Mundelein, Illinois. You've heard quite

2:12:22a lot about the technical merit of cast

2:12:23iron and its contribution to the life

2:12:25safety of your current plumbing code.

2:12:27What have you heard about PVC in the

2:12:29same vein? What about the safety that it

2:12:31provides in the proposed plumbing code?

2:12:33There hasn't been anything about that.

2:12:35The model

2:12:37I'm sorry. Can Can you excuse me?

2:12:39Louise, we're going to have to have you

2:12:41removed. You're disturbing the meeting.

2:12:43You're giggling.

2:12:45Can you please have him removed?

2:12:50>> Can I wait

2:12:51>> Thank you.

2:12:53Your your time stopped. Yeah, just hold

2:12:54on. You can start over. Yeah.

2:12:58Go ahead. Sorry.

2:13:01Yeah. Like I said, you've heard quite a

2:13:02lot of technical merit for cast iron and

2:13:04its contribution towards the life safety

2:13:06of your current plumbing code. We

2:13:08haven't heard anything about PVC's

2:13:10contribution to the proposed code. All

2:13:12we've heard is that it's cheaper. Uh it

2:13:15may provide more affordable housing or

2:13:17that it's a provided for in the model

2:13:19codes everywhere, so that must mean it's

2:13:21okay. But zero on technical merit has

2:13:24been presented to you to say that it is

2:13:25safe as affordable or is reliable and as

2:13:28sustainable as your current plumbing

2:13:30code. Now, on those model codes, those

2:13:32model codes there's two of them in the

2:13:33country and they both are aimed at

2:13:36average city USA. Omaha is anything but

2:13:38average. It's unique to Nebraska. There

2:13:41are only some other 40-odd cities across

2:13:43the country of the similar size to

2:13:45Omaha, Nebraska.

2:13:47Comparing the

2:13:48construction codes of single-family

2:13:50residential in Papillion or Gretna or

2:13:52someplace like that with the high

2:13:54density of local construction going on

2:13:55here in Omaha is a classic apples and

2:13:58oranges mistake. You have to look at

2:14:00places that have done this successfully

2:14:01for decades like New York City or

2:14:03Chicago and what you'll see is that they

2:14:05use intentionally different codes than

2:14:08their less dense surrounding areas

2:14:11because construction demanded demands

2:14:13it. Just like here in Omaha.

2:14:15So, the anecdotal

2:14:17um

2:14:20costs put before us today. Where is the

2:14:22proof? Where is the documentation? Where

2:14:24is the cost-benefit analysis? In front

2:14:27of you is the document that I we

2:14:28produced, a collection of ironclad

2:14:31truths, if you will, for the technical

2:14:33merit of cast iron, but also there are

2:14:35comparisons in there

2:14:37that go into uh from contractors and

2:14:39builders showing that the cost

2:14:41comparison between PVC and cast iron is

2:14:43negligible.

2:14:45At the end of the day, many cases of

2:14:46cast iron, it's cheaper to put it in

2:14:48than it is for PVC to be put in

2:14:50properly. There's an example in there of

2:14:52a builder of a 348 unit four-story

2:14:55apartment complex. At the end of the

2:14:57day, when they ran the numbers and

2:14:59swapped PVC in for cast iron, they came

2:15:01up and said, "There may be a $2 a month

2:15:03savings for a renter, not 200, two."

2:15:07They went on to tell us that that's

2:15:08something that we wouldn't even pass

2:15:10along to the renter.

2:15:12Where is that going to go? So,

2:15:14if you're wondering what might happen

2:15:16here in this code change, if it comes to

2:15:18fruition, we can look at the past to

2:15:20tell a story because right here in Omaha

2:15:22in 2015, the plumbing code was relaxed

2:15:25to allow more plastic and PVC in the

2:15:27name of affordable housing once again.

2:15:29So, what happened?

2:15:31Well, my graph right here, if I can get

2:15:33this to work properly,

2:15:35will show you that in the first half of

2:15:37the last quarter last decade,

2:15:40push it all the way back, I think,

2:15:41right?

2:15:43Up a little right. Does he got to push

2:15:45it?

2:15:45>> It's it's not really uh

2:15:48>> There we go.

2:15:51The first half of the last decade, the

2:15:53rental rate increase was about 1 and 1/2

2:15:55to 2%, fairly modest. In 2015, when the

2:15:57plumbing code changed, it exploded to

2:16:00well over two times.

2:16:023.7% in the '17 '18 range.

2:16:05>> apologize.

2:16:05>> I understand. Sorry about that.

2:16:06Appreciate you coming down. Appreciate

2:16:08your time.

2:16:09>> consistent on the 3 minutes.

2:16:10>> it.

2:16:11>> Thanks.

2:16:11>> I'm here available for questions if you

2:16:12want to call.

2:16:13>> Thank you.

2:16:18>> Thank you, Mr. President Council. Uh

2:16:20thanks for the opportunity. James Walls,

2:16:21cast iron soil pipe, uh

2:16:24>> [clears throat]

2:16:24>> director of codes.

2:16:25Uh I live at 505 Brookfield Drive,

2:16:27Garland, Texas. Uh my experience is a

2:16:29master plumber.

2:16:31Uh basically, it takes me It took me

2:16:338,000 hours to get my master license.

2:16:35I'm also a licensed inspector in the

2:16:36state of Texas. I'm also certified to

2:16:38teach uh plumbing in the state of Texas.

2:16:41Uh so, my concerns with this, I want to

2:16:43address some of the things comments were

2:16:44made earlier. Uh the ones that were

2:16:47opposing this.

2:16:48One was the builder.

2:16:50Okay? I was a plumbing chief plumbing

2:16:52inspector of the city of Arlington,

2:16:53Texas for 19 years. Okay, I retired from

2:16:55that.

2:16:57I have never since 1978

2:16:59seen a builder lower the cost of a

2:17:01house.

2:17:02No matter what material you put in it.

2:17:05I had to fight Quest, and some of you on

2:17:07the committee didn't know what Quest is.

2:17:09That's a form of Pex.

2:17:11That's just another form. And you go and

2:17:12research it, and you'll find out that

2:17:14there's millions of dollars of lawsuits

2:17:17over that material.

2:17:19Pex has these issues, and I'm working

2:17:21for the Cast Iron Soil Pipe Institute,

2:17:22but I'm looking at it as a whole with

2:17:23the code.

2:17:25We come up here to inform the plumbing

2:17:27board of what our concerns with PVC

2:17:29pipe. It's good in a lot of

2:17:31applications.

2:17:33But we want it installed correctly. If

2:17:35you're going to compare apples to

2:17:36apples, compare them.

2:17:38There's so many different requirements

2:17:39for plastic than there are for cast

2:17:42iron.

2:17:43Underground bedding is a big component

2:17:45of it.

2:17:45There's failures all over this country

2:17:47on plastic that failed.

2:17:49One was the New Orleans airport.

2:17:51You can see it news reports all over the

2:17:53country over it.

2:17:55The other one was the T. Boone Pickens

2:17:56Stadium, OSU.

2:17:58Failure in there because guess what? The

2:18:00maintenance man

2:18:01dumped steam, basically, hot water over

2:18:04210°

2:18:05down the floor drains, which was PVC.

2:18:08So nobody addressed that.

2:18:10And so all for cost.

2:18:13If you put it in correctly,

2:18:15it will stay stay, and that's what you

2:18:17want it to do. I think every citizen in

2:18:19Omaha deserves that

2:18:21on that side of it. Everyone. From the

2:18:23lowest neighborhoods to the highest

2:18:25neighborhoods. No matter what. It's all

2:18:26about safety.

2:18:28And that's what the codes are.

2:18:30And this comment about it was based off

2:18:31the model codes,

2:18:34I served on the International Plumbing

2:18:36Code Committee in 1994 when it first

2:18:37started.

2:18:38I served on the UPC Uniform Plumbing

2:18:40Code Committee uh TC Committee for over

2:18:4322 years.

2:18:44So I know a little bit about the codes.

2:18:48And so my concern is is we're going to

2:18:49go in and affordable housing, that's

2:18:51great. I think it's wonderful.

2:18:53And stuff. But let's put it in the right

2:18:55way so it was will last.

2:18:58Because if you build something

2:19:00and

2:19:01in 2 or 3 years you got to tear it down,

2:19:04then what's the issue?

2:19:05And on the PVC in restaurants that was

2:19:07talked about,

2:19:08okay, that's what was brought up about

2:19:10the 120° PVC will start

2:19:14deforming at 140° of constant

2:19:16temperature.

2:19:18So, when it

2:19:19kind of gets soft,

2:19:20then it's failed.

2:19:22And underground, 5% deflection,

2:19:25or even expansion contraction and you go

2:19:2720 stories,

2:19:29that's another concern I have cuz once

2:19:30you go 20 stories in my district, we had

2:19:33a four-story limit. Especially for you

2:19:35had one here for 55

2:19:37and older complex. You have a lot of

2:19:39people that can't get down from the

2:19:41fourth floor. And if they have

2:19:43elevators,

2:19:45then guess what? That's the first thing

2:19:46they shut off. I got to shut you down at

2:19:483 minutes. Appreciate you coming down.

2:19:50>> Thank you for being here today.

2:19:51>> Other opponents, hands show hands for

2:19:54opponents.

2:19:56Any opponents?

2:19:59Seeing none, public hearing is closed.

2:20:01Councilman Hug, you're recognized.

2:20:04>> Thank you, Mr. President. I do have a

2:20:06couple of people I'd like

2:20:07[clears throat] to call back up for

2:20:08follow-up questions if I may, Mr.

2:20:10President.

2:20:10>> Yes.

2:20:12>> Um

2:20:13Mr. Fanzol, I have to defer to you. Who

2:20:16would be best suited to answer specific

2:20:19questions about

2:20:21items in the proposed code changes?

2:20:24>> Um Dave Fanzol, [clears throat] city

2:20:25planning. I would either say Len uh Lent

2:20:29Lay or Dave Simpson.

2:20:33So.

2:20:35From my staff, those would be the two.

2:20:37>> Lay?

2:20:38>> Yeah.

2:20:41>> Good afternoon. Thanks for being here

2:20:42today.

2:20:43>> No problem.

2:20:44>> Um

2:20:44>> Dave Simpson here. He didn't speak, but

2:20:46I'll reintroduce him. He's the chief

2:20:48plumbing inspector of our department.

2:20:50>> Okay.

2:20:52Just to kind of put everything together

2:20:53in my head, I I got a specific question.

2:20:56So, in these code changes, are we going

2:20:59to allow

2:21:00plastic pipe to be used for fire

2:21:03suppression systems?

2:21:04>> It's already been used in fire

2:21:06suppression system.

2:21:07>> That's already code.

2:21:08>> It's It's It's been allowed in

2:21:09mechanical code. Yeah.

2:21:11>> I'm sorry.

2:21:11>> It's in a It's been allowed.

2:21:14So, fire suppression system is PVC.

2:21:17>> Okay. So, we're already allowing that.

2:21:19>> We are allowing it.

2:21:20>> Okay.

2:21:22Okay. That's the only question I had for

2:21:23you. Thank you.

2:21:24>> Yep.

2:21:26>> Um

2:21:27There was a gentleman said he was

2:21:28president of Local 16.

2:21:33Come on down.

2:21:33>> come up?

2:21:45>> Somebody affiliated with your

2:21:46organization made a comment here today

2:21:48that I'd like to ask you to follow up

2:21:49on. I believe the comment was you

2:21:52wouldn't find anybody more committed to

2:21:53plumbing than Local 16.

2:21:56So,

2:21:59can you tell us about your financial

2:22:01commitment your local has made towards

2:22:03training

2:22:04plumbers?

2:22:06>> Uh absolutely. Uh um you know, just

2:22:09about a year ago I

2:22:10we uh

2:22:11went ahead and bought the old Anthony's

2:22:14and and we've uh we spent about $10.8

2:22:17million on that facility.

2:22:20Uh we've increased our apprentice uh

2:22:22numbers year over year for the last 5

2:22:24years. Um

2:22:26when we were taking 12, now we're taking

2:22:2830. So, we're investing and and part of

2:22:32my speech earlier was that 137 years

2:22:35we've we've been growing. We're at a 710

2:22:38members

2:22:39uh and over uh 150 apprentices. So,

2:22:43there is growth in plumbing and it is

2:22:46long-term growth, but it also comes with

2:22:48that education. So, um as far as Local

2:22:5116 goes, we will always be your

2:22:54partners. We want to be

2:22:56able to evolve and change with the city

2:22:58and be and be that partner.

2:23:00>> Okay, thank you, sir.

2:23:01>> Thank you.

2:23:02>> Uh Mr. President, may I have one more

2:23:04question?

2:23:05>> The floor is yours.

2:23:05>> Uh somebody from the cast iron pipe

2:23:07industry

2:23:09who [clears throat] can talk about a

2:23:13I want to bring up a part of ancient

2:23:14history.

2:23:15There was a product that was utilized

2:23:19and everybody thought it was a great

2:23:20idea. Um

2:23:23I've always referred to it as yellow

2:23:24bird, but it was basically laminated tar

2:23:26paper sewer pipe.

2:23:30I'm sorry, what?

2:23:32Orangeburg.

2:23:33Whoever from the industry come up and

2:23:34talk about that.

2:23:36>> About Orangeburg?

2:23:37>> Yeah.

2:23:37>> That's That's before my time, but uh

2:23:41>> [laughter]

2:23:41>> and I'm 70 years old, so that tells you

2:23:43something. But World War II is when it

2:23:45was

2:23:45>> a product called Orangeburg. It's

2:23:48basically laminated tar paper sewer

2:23:51pipe.

2:23:52And it was a cost reduction item

2:23:54and everybody thought it was a great

2:23:56idea

2:23:57until until it was not a great idea. Do

2:24:00you have any first hand knowledge of how

2:24:02that fails?

2:24:03>> Uh basically by uh

2:24:05the uh load

2:24:07uh on the the pipe. Cuz it's same thing

2:24:10with PVC today. That's the one we talk

2:24:12about it. You have uh uh

2:24:14you have to compact the soil and you

2:24:16have to be on a firm bed and then you

2:24:18have to build up kind of

2:24:19like you're building up a wall to to

2:24:21shore up something. But you're basically

2:24:23taking 6-in layers of basic gravel or

2:24:26pea gravel or or loose sand concrete

2:24:28sand, whatever you got. And then you

2:24:29basically compact it and that would

2:24:31protect it because when I was a

2:24:32teenager, believe it or not, we dug up a

2:24:34lot of the old Orangeburg. But it was

2:24:36only used outside of the home, single

2:24:38family residence.

2:24:39And so when you'd get them, it'd be the

2:24:41binocular effect cuz basically the

2:24:43weight load on top of it would crush it.

2:24:46And stuff. And then you got the

2:24:47transite.

2:24:48And that was the bestest pipe. So they

2:24:51were kind of hand in hand. When you got

2:24:52that, you didn't want to mess with it

2:24:54because now you got Hazmat and everybody

2:24:55else. But that's basically where that

2:24:57material come from. And that was the

2:24:59shortage of iron and stuff from World

2:25:01War so that's when they And it didn't

2:25:03last very long. So, but the thing about

2:25:06it is products today

2:25:07>> World War II. I've seen it in homes that

2:25:09were built in the '50s.

2:25:10>> Uh it was in the '50s and the '50s and

2:25:12'60s it was mainly used and stuff. And

2:25:15then

2:25:16uh and then you know cast iron was a

2:25:17common practice and stuff on that part

2:25:19of it. And uh we we basically just want

2:25:21to make sure

2:25:23like we said, apples to apples. I know

2:25:24there's there's a place for every

2:25:26material. There always has been. We

2:25:28never argued that point. Uh we just want

2:25:30to make sure it's the life safety issue

2:25:32for the citizens. But, transite I don't

2:25:33think you're going to get uh

2:25:35Orangeburg or or drain and I I cannot

2:25:37tell you the full name. That was the

2:25:39manufacturer name of the product. So,

2:25:41but I I knew a gentleman that could tell

2:25:43you the full name, but it was like uh

2:25:45like a dictionary.

2:25:46>> we'll just agree to refer to it as junk.

2:25:48>> Okay, that's fine. I'll agree with that

2:25:50one. I can do that one. So, I can do

2:25:51that one. Yeah.

2:25:53>> Okay. Well, just in full disclosure, I I

2:25:56think there's probably only one person

2:25:57in this whole building today who

2:26:00actually worked in a pipe foundry making

2:26:02[clears throat] cast iron pipe, and that

2:26:04was me.

2:26:05I was a machinist at the old Griffin

2:26:07pipe plant

2:26:07>> Really?

2:26:08>> before they shut down.

2:26:09>> Okay.

2:26:09>> So, I'm familiar with uh casting pipe.

2:26:12>> Yep.

2:26:12>> And uh

2:26:14hot dirty

2:26:14>> I'll remember I'll remember to take up

2:26:15your time, but I remember Griffin

2:26:17because they would come in and call when

2:26:18I was chief, and they would come in and

2:26:20say and they had the double hub. And

2:26:22that's the first time that I saw the

2:26:23double hub as kind of a fitting

2:26:25application. I thought that was kind of

2:26:27unique that they they did that and

2:26:28stuff. And then I I did the plumbing I

2:26:30did plumbing for a plumbing inspector

2:26:32inspector, and then I go to work for the

2:26:34institute. And so, now I get to go to

2:26:36the foundries three times a year and

2:26:37inspect the product. So,

2:26:40>> Thank you for your time, sir.

2:26:40>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

2:26:41>> Mr. President. Thank you. I I was going

2:26:44to ask a couple questions. Lay, if I can

2:26:45bring you up, please.

2:26:47>> Absolutely.

2:26:48>> You have the code, I know.

2:26:50>> I do.

2:26:50>> Okay. I I just wanted to ask a few

2:26:52questions. There's a lot of lights on,

2:26:53so

2:26:54>> Yeah.

2:26:54>> I'll try to just get to

2:26:57the questions I wanted to have. So,

2:26:59under section 49-218,

2:27:04it doesn't have page numbers on here,

2:27:06but I'll let you get to that section.

2:27:11>> Continuing? Yes.

2:27:12>> Okay, so lines 12 through 18

2:27:16where it talks about the renewal of the

2:27:18licenses and the hours per cycle.

2:27:22On that 12 through 18, you see that

2:27:24there?

2:27:29>> You need the whole code?

2:27:30>> No, the renewal licenses.

2:27:33>> For the renewal.

2:27:33>> Okay, I got you.

2:27:34>> License renewal.

2:27:35>> Under section 59.

2:27:36>> So, I was just curious um

2:27:40why are those hours being cut than what

2:27:42they're right now? What What are they

2:27:44right now?

2:27:46>> Currently, uh Councilman, they are 8

2:27:48hours per year

2:27:50and we are

2:27:52cutting them essentially in half to

2:27:54um

2:27:56to make them more like all the

2:27:57surrounding states around us, which

2:27:59basically are 8 hours per 3 years.

2:28:02So, we thought this was a fair

2:28:03compromise.

2:28:05>> So, you're you're reducing it in half.

2:28:08You're cutting it in half.

2:28:09>> Yes, sir.

2:28:10>> Okay.

2:28:13>> [clears throat]

2:28:14>> So, training is less.

2:28:16>> Continuing education is less, that's

2:28:18correct, sir.

2:28:19>> Okay.

2:28:28On section

2:28:3059

2:28:32552.

2:28:43>> Yep.

2:28:44>> Fiv- uh

2:28:46I'm sorry. Forty- I'm sorry. Yeah.

2:28:48Forty-nine, it's crossed off, so it's

2:28:50hard to read. Forty-nine 552.

2:28:53>> Yep.

2:28:54>> Do you see that there?

2:28:55>> Yep.

2:28:55>> Okay.

2:28:56So, on the page it goes the next page

2:29:00over

2:29:02line eight.

2:29:04Do you see that where it says line eight

2:29:06and then five

2:29:07and it's crossed out.

2:29:08>> Yep.

2:29:09>> It says the entire building is protected

2:29:12throughout with an approved automatic

2:29:15fire sprinkler system.

2:29:17>> Mhm.

2:29:17>> And that's stricken.

2:29:19>> Yep.

2:29:19>> Is there any new language that covers

2:29:22that?

2:29:23>> So the the plumbing code doesn't

2:29:24actually address life safety. It is in

2:29:27the building code. So we tried to clean

2:29:29up this language in the code that is

2:29:30being repetitive. And so often time when

2:29:34you look at the plumbing code, it really

2:29:36is about installation and the product

2:29:38itself. It's not really about life

2:29:41safety. So life safety is already

2:29:43addressed in the building code.

2:29:44Therefore, we striked out the entire

2:29:46section because it's already mentioned

2:29:48elsewhere. And so we're trying to clean

2:29:51up the code as well. And so this does

2:29:55not mean that the building is being less

2:29:58protected. It's just referenced

2:29:59elsewhere. I was a plan reviewer for

2:30:02eight years with the city. If the

2:30:04building is required to be sprinkled,

2:30:06there's no way that passed me.

2:30:09>> Okay. So I appreciate your explanation

2:30:12and as we sit here, I don't see any

2:30:14plumbers up here, but I see smart people

2:30:18uh that will never be plumbers.

2:30:21But I wanted to ask so with that and I

2:30:23appreciate your explanation, I wasn't in

2:30:26any of the meetings you guys had. So I I

2:30:28just wanted to ask anybody from the

2:30:31people that are here in good faith

2:30:32opposing this

2:30:33that give me your response to what you

2:30:36just heard on that for the um fire

2:30:40sprinkler systems being removed and it's

2:30:42just being cleaned up. It

2:30:44Is that And I'm not going through the

2:30:45whole document, but I'm just trying to

2:30:46understand today. Can Can you speak to

2:30:49that?

2:30:52>> Brian Helms, Charlotte Pipe and Foundry.

2:30:55Um

2:30:55Uh what what I'll say is is this is that

2:30:58my answer to that would be that

2:31:00uh I think that any code, whether it's

2:31:02the plumbing code, whether it's the

2:31:03mechanical code, whether it's the

2:31:05building code, whether it's the pool and

2:31:07spa code, the number one singular

2:31:11purpose, the only reason why we have

2:31:13codes in this country

2:31:16is to protect the health and safety of

2:31:17the public.

2:31:19Okay?

2:31:20So, um so I think that it doesn't matter

2:31:22if we're talking about the the plumbing

2:31:24or the building code,

2:31:25you have to have safety as the number

2:31:28one priority. That's the whole reason

2:31:29why they exist.

2:31:30So, I would just say that

2:31:32um

2:31:33regardless of whether it is in the

2:31:35building code,

2:31:37um I think that there is is a need to

2:31:40have language to protect the occupants

2:31:42of the building in the plumbing code as

2:31:44well.

2:31:46>> I appreciate that explanation. And Leia,

2:31:48I wanted to ask, did you have anything

2:31:49to respond to that?

2:31:50>> I do. Um

2:31:53the the building code addresses

2:31:55um life safety.

2:31:57The life safety code that the state

2:31:59adopted addresses life safety.

2:32:02The International Fire Code addresses

2:32:05life safety. And I would say that when

2:32:08it comes to life safety,

2:32:10everything is addressed in those codes,

2:32:13and then we reference that. I read this

2:32:15Omaha Plumbing Code three times, and I

2:32:17can tell you there's nothing in here

2:32:19when it talks about life safety that

2:32:21doesn't address back to the

2:32:23International Building Code. Um and so

2:32:26for that, I I don't disagree that life

2:32:28safety is important. However,

2:32:30once again,

2:32:32we are cleaning up the language in here

2:32:34and not cross-referencing.

2:32:36Therefore, we removed that, but it

2:32:38doesn't mean the building is less safe.

2:32:40That life safety provision is all in the

2:32:43building and the fire code.

2:32:44>> Can Can I

2:32:45Well, and we got a lot of lights on. I'm

2:32:47not going to belabor the point, but why

2:32:48not just leave it in then? If you're

2:32:51cleaning it up, is there any any

2:32:53>> this language is actually If you read

2:32:55the entire code, uh it's actually being

2:32:57repeated elsewhere. And so that's why

2:32:59we're we um we want to clean it up, um

2:33:05but

2:33:07International Plumbing Code and UPC,

2:33:10which is Uniform Building plumbing code,

2:33:13doesn't address sprinkler requirement in

2:33:15a building. It does not.

2:33:17So, we're trying to be more in line with

2:33:19those model codes and cleaning out those

2:33:21language.

2:33:22>> Okay. And two other question I'll ask.

2:33:25>> Yeah.

2:33:26>> One of the testifiers in opposition

2:33:28mentioned, and I took a lot of notes and

2:33:31I'll watch this again and digest what

2:33:33both sides said.

2:33:35They said it's low cost now versus

2:33:37lifetime cost. And one of the examples

2:33:41they talked about, I think it was

2:33:42at Oklahoma State T. Boone Pickens

2:33:44Stadium,

2:33:45one of the gentlemen mentioned you

2:33:47dumped the hot water down the drain.

2:33:49And they talk about the temperature

2:33:52that 120°.

2:33:54So, I'm going to simplify it to the

2:33:55mailman and teacher's son. If I'm in my

2:33:57house

2:33:58and I

2:33:59boiled some corn on the cob

2:34:02and I dumped that hot water down my

2:34:04sink, if it's plastic PVC,

2:34:07does it does it damage that or how does

2:34:09that work with this?

2:34:11>> So, I'm not a plumber myself, but I do

2:34:14have a plumber here who can answer that

2:34:16question.

2:34:16>> Is there Is there any plumbers in the

2:34:17house here?

2:34:18>> I I am I am a plumber and I've I've been

2:34:20engaged in the trade since 1981. Um

2:34:23self-employed for 25 years, been a

2:34:25master for 27.

2:34:27Um to your question, Councilman.

2:34:29Um sustained

2:34:30use suits like that

2:34:32will damage it.

2:34:33Will damage that salt that's

2:34:36foam core PVC. It will. Or a foam core

2:34:39ABS.

2:34:40A solid core pipe of either

2:34:43uh

2:34:44PVC or ABS will take

2:34:46a like amount more temperature on that.

2:34:48Um which is why we have also at the end

2:34:51of chapter 49 or section 49 549, all

2:34:55piping to be installed per manufacturer

2:34:56specifications. Which is also why we put

2:34:58temperature limits on

2:35:00certain types of structures. Single

2:35:03family homes, multi-family homes,

2:35:05commercial buildings.

2:35:07Um

2:35:09commercial kitchens. And again, most of

2:35:12these are will

2:35:13on the upper end of that scale, the temp

2:35:15scale, will all be engineered solutions.

2:35:18Um if you're in a 140° environment, say

2:35:21a commercial kitchen, laboratory, an

2:35:24engineer will specify,

2:35:25you know, we're probably going to use

2:35:26stainless steel, we're going to use cast

2:35:28iron, we're going to use something to

2:35:29take this heat. PVC, ABS is not going to

2:35:32be the choice in that application. But

2:35:34again, it's going to be an engineered

2:35:35solution.

2:35:36>> Okay. Did

2:35:38Did anybody have a comment against that?

2:35:41And if you could, stand up. I'll I'll

2:35:42get to you guys. I appreciate your

2:35:43patience.

2:35:49>> Brian Helm, Charlotte Pipe and Foundry.

2:35:50Um as I mentioned in my initial

2:35:52testimony, Charlotte Pipe manufactures

2:35:55both cast iron and plastic materials

2:35:57such as PVC, ABS, as well as CPVC.

2:36:02Um the information that uh that was just

2:36:04provided is incorrect.

2:36:06So, the maximum operating temperature

2:36:08for any PVC system,

2:36:10that would be foam core, also called

2:36:13cellular core material, that would be

2:36:15solid wall material, that would that

2:36:17would include schedule 40, that would

2:36:18include PVC schedule 80, that would

2:36:20include uh sewer pipe, that would

2:36:22include sewer and main pipe.

2:36:24Essentially, what I'm trying to tell you

2:36:26is if it is PVC,

2:36:28the maximum operating temperature is

2:36:31140° Fahrenheit.

2:36:33Not 141,

2:36:35140° Fahrenheit.

2:36:38And that is based upon the compound that

2:36:40is used, the primary compound of

2:36:42polyvinyl chloride.

2:36:43It has nothing to do with the system, it

2:36:46has nothing to do with the dimensions,

2:36:48it has everything to do with the

2:36:49material.

2:36:51ABS, our recommendation for ABS, whether

2:36:54that is solid wall,

2:36:56um or whether that is uh cellular core

2:36:59material, is 140° Fahrenheit.

2:37:03CPVC, well, that's different altogether

2:37:06because that's that's going to be all

2:37:08over the map depending on the

2:37:09manufacturer.

2:37:10Um but what I will say is is this is

2:37:13that

2:37:14with a temperature requirement of 120°,

2:37:17all right, you just heard well, they're

2:37:19going to use this or they're going to

2:37:21use that for a higher temperature.

2:37:24Tell me where.

2:37:25Because what I'm seeing in the code as

2:37:27the provision as it stands today, the

2:37:30amendment

2:37:31it says 120°.

2:37:35Where is the requirement for these other

2:37:37materials to be used?

2:37:40There isn't one.

2:37:41There's not a requirement for that.

2:37:43120° if it meets it, you can use it.

2:37:47Thank you.

2:37:48>> Thanks.

2:37:49Um I'll just my last comment, maybe I'll

2:37:51weigh in at the end. Um

2:37:54the health safety challenges and and

2:37:56affordable housing, I think it it comes

2:37:58back to

2:37:59we're all in favor of affordable

2:38:01housing, but and again, listen to the

2:38:03testifiers on both sides

2:38:05the fast, cheap, and right

2:38:08is something that I'm going to continue

2:38:10to understand here in the next week or

2:38:13two

2:38:14because

2:38:16we like our developers in Omaha, we're

2:38:19billing the city

2:38:21but we also want to make sure costs

2:38:24that if they're saved, are they really

2:38:26passing it down to the tenants or the

2:38:28property the homeowners that are going

2:38:30to be building or buying new homes?

2:38:32Um that's as I go through

2:38:35this and what was provided here and all

2:38:39the testimony, those are the main

2:38:41concerns I have that

2:38:43plumbers local

2:38:44has been here for 137 years

2:38:47and I I went through that training

2:38:49center that was referenced here with

2:38:50Mary Ewing actually about 3 weeks ago or

2:38:53so.

2:38:54And it's the old Anthony's, it's a

2:38:55state-of-the-art facility

2:38:58and as somebody that jokes about I'm

2:39:00proud to say, the only thing I know

2:39:02about plumbing is when I screw it up,

2:39:04I'm calling one of you guys to come fix

2:39:06it.

2:39:07And having a well-trained

2:39:09and and let's a well-paid plumber that

2:39:12you trust to come and do

2:39:15cleaning out your pipes or if you're

2:39:16building a new a new unit to have it

2:39:19that there's no corners cut. So, that's

2:39:21why when we go through all this code

2:39:23is we try to understand it. Those are

2:39:25the things the fast, cheap, and right is

2:39:27that the route we're going to go or is

2:39:29there somewhere in between we can figure

2:39:30out? So, I appreciate everybody's

2:39:32patience.

2:39:34Council Member Goodwin, you're now

2:39:35recognized.

2:39:39>> Thank you,

2:39:40Mr. President. I think this is a good

2:39:43dialogue. We appreciate everyone who

2:39:44came down on both sides. As I was

2:39:47keeping my scorecard, you know, actually

2:39:50we've got 16 people in opposition

2:39:54and 14 [clears throat]

2:39:55people

2:39:57uh as proponents. So, I mean there's an

2:39:59equal amount of representation here.

2:40:02Um and all

2:40:04coming with experience. Um Leia, I did

2:40:07have a question about the composition of

2:40:12the 2025 committee.

2:40:13>> Yeah.

2:40:14>> Um do you have a breakdown of

2:40:18uh union, non-union,

2:40:21and then I'm assuming everyone other

2:40:24than the planning staff was a was a

2:40:27plumber. Uh is that assumption correct

2:40:30or

2:40:30>> Um

2:40:31>> what was that breakdown?

2:40:32>> Besides me and Anna,

2:40:34every and um

2:40:36the

2:40:38uh mechanical engineer, everybody is was

2:40:41a plumber.

2:40:42Um so, I I do have a breakdown of the

2:40:44members' name um union and non-union

2:40:47representation.

2:40:47>> Yeah, and I'm more concerned with

2:40:50one that everyone essentially of the

2:40:53nine, seven were plumbers, correct? And

2:40:56then what was just the composition of

2:40:58union versus non?

2:41:00>> uh

2:41:00two master plumber who are unioned. Uh

2:41:05one journeyman that is union.

2:41:07One journeyman that is non-union.

2:41:10One master plumber that's non-union. And

2:41:13then there's an engineer, a developer,

2:41:15uh myself, and the chief uh plumbing

2:41:18inspector.

2:41:18>> And then so, there was a vote.

2:41:20>> There was a vote.

2:41:21>> It

2:41:22and concerning the the ordinance, what

2:41:25the how many voted for, how many voted

2:41:27against, or was there a breakdown of a

2:41:29you know, I don't want to go granular

2:41:31into that, but I do kind of want to

2:41:32understand the process.

2:41:34>> The process is that in the code

2:41:36committee, uh the

2:41:39city have a a few proposed change that

2:41:43we brought to the committee. Going over

2:41:45every detail in the code would take

2:41:46months. So, we only and we're not trying

2:41:49to change everything. What's working,

2:41:51let it be.

2:41:53We came in to the code committee with

2:41:56items that we would like to address and

2:41:59bring to the attention of the code

2:42:01committee.

2:42:02There was not a vote with the code

2:42:04committee.

2:42:05>> I see.

2:42:05>> What happened is that

2:42:08once we have a version that we can all

2:42:11agreed on, um at at least a majority, we

2:42:15send that to law for review. Once that

2:42:18was sent to law, it was sent to the

2:42:20plumbing board

2:42:22for a vote. And the vote was um at one

2:42:25point five to three, and another point

2:42:27four to

2:42:28two.

2:42:32>> So, the first vote for the plumbing

2:42:33board was five to three.

2:42:34>> Yep. And and once we all once the

2:42:38plumbing board approve it, we send it to

2:42:40the building board review. The building

2:42:42board is comprised of mechanical

2:42:44engineer, electrical engineer, a civil

2:42:46engineer,

2:42:48a structural engineer, an architect, uh

2:42:51a contractor,

2:42:53and a general public, but he's also an a

2:42:56practicing architect.

2:42:58So, that vote was six to one.

2:43:01>> Six to one for

2:43:03>> For the building board review.

2:43:04>> Building board

2:43:05>> had three open uh public meetings prior

2:43:09to that vote.

2:43:10>> Right.

2:43:11Okay. And so, thank you for that. I

2:43:13think that brings some context just to

2:43:15the discussion.

2:43:17Um we talk about cleaning up the the

2:43:19code.

2:43:20>> Mhm.

2:43:21>> Um would you say that all of our

2:43:25building codes are cross

2:43:28um

2:43:29intersectional, meaning that

2:43:32you know, the plumbing code is then

2:43:35going to reference life safety, is then

2:43:37going to reference building. I'm not an

2:43:40expert of all the codes,

2:43:42but

2:43:43comprehensively, by the time a project

2:43:46gets to the building review, are all

2:43:50these codes then being considered?

2:43:52>> So, I'm going to say something that's

2:43:54pretty groundbreaking for the audience

2:43:56in this room is that the city of Omaha

2:43:58does not adopt the model code, and that

2:44:01is the issue.

2:44:02Um the model code reference each other.

2:44:06The international plumbing code The

2:44:08international code council adopt the

2:44:11I-code, which reference what the city

2:44:13had adopted, the international building

2:44:15code, international mechanical code, the

2:44:17international um well, the electrical

2:44:20code is NFPA.

2:44:23But,

2:44:25ICC also have an international plumbing

2:44:28code that the city did not adopt.

2:44:30And so, because the city did not adopt

2:44:32it, there's a lot of language in there

2:44:35that I don't disagree that we um

2:44:39aren't trying to

2:44:42we we can't make it up with the model

2:44:45code. The model code, they meet on an

2:44:47annual basis, they review it, they go

2:44:49through ASTM standard.

2:44:51Omaha plumbing code is not that way. And

2:44:54so, often time, when we try to clean up

2:44:57this language,

2:44:59I think the Omaha plumbing code, the

2:45:01reason why we clean up this language is

2:45:02because we want to create that less of

2:45:04that confusion. In a model code, you

2:45:07would never see anything about life

2:45:09safety. In the international plumbing

2:45:11code, it would always reference the

2:45:12building code. Yet, in the Omaha

2:45:15plumbing code, because it's written as a

2:45:16proprietary product, that Omaha written,

2:45:20it reference everything and anything.

2:45:22And so, we're trying our best to clean

2:45:24up the language so that it's not causing

2:45:26any confusion out in the field. Um and

2:45:30and and that's the reason why we have

2:45:32this discrepancy. These expert are

2:45:34coming in. I'm not saying, you know,

2:45:36they're right or wrong. I'm just saying

2:45:38there is a discrepancy in the Omaha

2:45:40plumbing code.

2:45:41And if I were to say something, I would

2:45:43love nothing more than for us to go to

2:45:45the product code and all of these

2:45:47cross-references would be eliminated.

2:45:52>> Now, I appreciate that. I I really

2:45:54appreciate that context because it's

2:45:56creating a clearer

2:45:58picture, um at least for me. I'm not a

2:46:01plumber.

2:46:02Um and I don't play one on TV, either.

2:46:05Um but uh

2:46:07>> [laughter]

2:46:07>> Uh you know, we're we're here to make

2:46:10decisions that are best ultimately for

2:46:12everyone. I think that's what our

2:46:14representation

2:46:16um

2:46:17says and and safety first. Now, it was

2:46:21interesting that we had our chief um you

2:46:25know, of the fire department here. Is

2:46:28anybody here still in the audience that

2:46:31represents our fire department because a

2:46:33lot was talked about

2:46:36and

2:46:38you know,

2:46:39fair enough that we have to consider it.

2:46:42But is anybody here from our fire

2:46:44department that can give some clarity to

2:46:47so many of the references

2:46:49on fire safety today?

2:46:53>> Since no one's here, I'm going to take

2:46:55my superintendent hat off and put on my

2:46:57plan reviewer hat on, the building code.

2:47:00Uh I've been with the city for 8 years

2:47:02as a plan reviewer. Um

2:47:04when it comes to system protection,

2:47:08that is with the building code. Fire

2:47:10code doesn't even address that.

2:47:11>> Mhm.

2:47:12>> That is all in the building code. It's

2:47:14in chapter 7 of the building code where

2:47:16fire protection um and

2:47:19the fire department in chapter 9 look at

2:47:21fire requirements. For example, if you

2:47:23have an assembly space over 99 people,

2:47:25you have to have provide sprinkler. But

2:47:28when it comes to how to protect that

2:47:30building, it goes back to the mechanical

2:47:33code

2:47:34and the building code on how to protect

2:47:37it. Every assembly is as specified in

2:47:40the building code. Um every fire

2:47:42protection assembly, um it's there's I

2:47:45look at UL listing. I I check for those

2:47:48things when when it comes to my desk for

2:47:50plan review. Every building goes through

2:47:53the building code review for life

2:47:55safety.

2:47:56The mechanical code um talks about fire

2:48:00sprinkler and and

2:48:02uh that requirement. But the plumbing

2:48:04code does not address

2:48:06life safety. It does not.

2:48:09And I can I can say that with 100%

2:48:11certainty.

2:48:12Um I I know it's been addressed here,

2:48:14but that does not address in the

2:48:15plumbing code.

2:48:16>> No, I No, thank you for that. Um

2:48:20So, stay right there, Lay, but I do have

2:48:22a question for

2:48:24uh

2:48:25Mr. Fanslaw, primarily because he's the,

2:48:27you know, department head for our

2:48:29planning committee. Would you recommend

2:48:33planning code changes that would

2:48:36compromise the life safety of residents

2:48:39or occupants of the building?

2:48:42>> Uh Dave Fanslaw, City [clears throat]

2:48:43Planning.

2:48:45My obvious answer is no. We wouldn't We

2:48:48would never do that. I trust my staff

2:48:50and the folks that worked on this

2:48:52certain code uh revision. They know what

2:48:54they're doing, and

2:48:56we would never advocate for something

2:48:58that's going to compromise life safety.

2:49:00>> And I hope you understand why I asked

2:49:02you that. Clearly,

2:49:04I don't believe that, but it was

2:49:05implied.

2:49:07Um and so, I thought that it would be

2:49:09helpful to have it on the record.

2:49:12Um

2:49:14further, Lay, thank you for that. Uh Mr.

2:49:17Fanslaw, we had some reference to like

2:49:20density in other municipalities,

2:49:23and that code changes

2:49:25>> Mhm.

2:49:26>> were

2:49:27different depending upon, you know,

2:49:30multi-family versus single-family.

2:49:33>> Absolutely.

2:49:34Could you bring some clarity to that,

2:49:36please?

2:49:36>> Absolutely, I could. Um

2:49:38So, in terms of the life safety aspect

2:49:42of

2:49:44the plumbing code is that there is a lot

2:49:47of restriction on the height of So,

2:49:50right now, the existing plumbing code

2:49:52only allow multi-family story less than

2:49:55four-story

2:49:56to be PVC. Now, with that being said,

2:49:59anything above that, you have to go full

2:50:01cast. And

2:50:04but

2:50:05when you look at

2:50:07say Papillion, you can build Mutual of

2:50:10Omaha in Papillion without having to go

2:50:13before the plumbing board.

2:50:15Because they allow cast iron I mean,

2:50:18they allow PVC

2:50:20with no height limitation. They adopt

2:50:22the IP the International Plumbing Code

2:50:25as written. The state, you can build

2:50:28Mutual of Omaha, the 46-story building,

2:50:31anywhere

2:50:33in the state that doesn't have

2:50:36um

2:50:37besides Omaha,

2:50:39um

2:50:40you can build that without any

2:50:41restriction to height and area

2:50:42limitation. Because they had adopted one

2:50:45form or another of the International

2:50:47Plumbing Code or the Uniform Building

2:50:50Plumbing Code.

2:50:51With

2:50:53um

2:50:55with single-family homes, I think we

2:50:57have exhausted every way possible to

2:51:02bring costs down in terms of the code

2:51:04changes. PVC has been allowed, PEX has

2:51:07been allowed, but inside above ground.

2:51:10The last we were tasked with the

2:51:12task of looking at ways to help

2:51:17move this conversation in terms of

2:51:19affordability. And what we have looked

2:51:22at is where it is now mandate is the

2:51:27underground water service has to be

2:51:30ductile iron or copper. And with the

2:51:33price of copper, this is something where

2:51:36we we'd looked at cast is I mean PVC is

2:51:39already

2:51:40above ground. So, why can't we do it

2:51:43underground as well?

2:51:44Um

2:51:46in terms of single-family housing, that

2:51:49is the only area that we can think of

2:51:52that would help with cost. Now, I like

2:51:54to bring to this board also um

2:51:58there are um Drury Hotel

2:52:01their request for an eight-story PVC use

2:52:04was denied by the plumbing board.

2:52:06Um this is a project where

2:52:09um

2:52:10if they want to take this to Papillion

2:52:12and build that, they could without

2:52:15using a single inch of uh uh uh uh cast

2:52:18iron.

2:52:21>> And so, you're talking about really our

2:52:23competitive edge as a city

2:52:25>> Absolutely. And and and there's a reason

2:52:27why you only see four-stories

2:52:29multi-family here in Omaha is because

2:52:33any higher they go, the cost difference

2:52:36is 60 to 80% lower

2:52:39um

2:52:40for for using cast for using um

2:52:43PVC.

2:52:44>> You know, there was a point brought up

2:52:46about um

2:52:48affordability and if there is a cost

2:52:50savings uh

2:52:52in

2:52:53you know, doing below ground PVC to to

2:52:56save in single-family houses

2:52:59um how do we ensure that those costs are

2:53:03then

2:53:04you know, passed on to the buyer?

2:53:07>> Yeah, so we've had conversation with the

2:53:09mayor's office and I think he I mean Mr.

2:53:13Fensel can can speak on that, but we do

2:53:16what we can on our end. Um

2:53:19we always look at life safety as the

2:53:20most important. Um our department would

2:53:23not compromise. I mean, we're we're the

2:53:25building and life safety

2:53:27department here.

2:53:28We do not compromise that um for

2:53:32affordability. What we can do is we can

2:53:34explore within our regulation what we

2:53:37can do to help move that conversation in

2:53:40terms of affordability. Um

2:53:43Pex has been allowed underground in

2:53:45elsewhere. Des Moines, you know, there's

2:53:47a gentleman um

2:53:49from DR Horton and he's he's saying why

2:53:52it's cheaper to buy in Des Moines than

2:53:54it is to build in Omaha. Well, Des

2:53:57Moines also allow Pex underground um and

2:53:59they don't have that regulation that the

2:54:02Omaha community has in terms of using

2:54:05PVC in and Pex.

2:54:08>> So, what what about

2:54:09>> that conversation I mean I I went on,

2:54:11but in terms of the cost saving, how

2:54:14that being translate, I think I'm not in

2:54:16the position to answer that question

2:54:18because

2:54:20uh yeah, that's

2:54:21>> and essentially it does get to the

2:54:23markets and I do think there's an issue

2:54:25then of integrity, right?

2:54:27>> Absolutely.

2:54:27>> We we we are doing our part as a city,

2:54:31but how then that translates to to the

2:54:33overall price is is really then up to

2:54:38the builder um or developer.

2:54:40>> I think that conversation is ongoing

2:54:42between the um

2:54:44mayor's office and and developer. I

2:54:46don't think that [clears throat]

2:54:47conversation because

2:54:49I mean, I've been in meeting with the

2:54:51mayor where he said he does not want

2:54:53this to be

2:54:55an action where the developer is the one

2:54:58who pocket the money at the end. So, he

2:55:00wants to make right decision and that's

2:55:03coming from me being in the meeting. So,

2:55:05again, I'm not at liberty to be the

2:55:08voice of that situation, but

2:55:10>> Wait, and I just, you know, again, it

2:55:11was something that was brought up

2:55:13multiple times. I think it's something

2:55:14that

2:55:15this council needs to consider

2:55:18on the planning committee. It may be

2:55:20just another step we potentially look to

2:55:22take. I also realize that there's you

2:55:25know, the the private market

2:55:27[clears throat] at play as well. Um my

2:55:29last question and thank you all for your

2:55:31patience um and hopefully this is

2:55:33answering some additional questions that

2:55:35may be many of you had

2:55:37with water quality.

2:55:39>> Mhm.

2:55:39>> Is do we have

2:55:41um studies on long-term use of PVC,

2:55:45um its impact on water quality,

2:55:48um where should we be at with our

2:55:51concerns? We we all hear about nano

2:55:53plastics.

2:55:53>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, they

2:55:56can also speak on that, but I I will

2:55:58tell you that both the model codes has

2:56:02allowed PVC for many, many years. And if

2:56:04people are dying somewhere, we would

2:56:06know it on the news. So, I would say

2:56:09Papillion has allowed it and I mean, I'm

2:56:12I'm living in Papillion now and I I

2:56:14don't think I'm been sick, so

2:56:16um I would say water quality

2:56:19I mean, this is speaking for me

2:56:22personally, but

2:56:24the code has allowed PVC for many, many

2:56:28years. And so, if people are dying, we

2:56:30would hear about it now. So, um we

2:56:33didn't do any testing, obviously, um

2:56:36but we're trying to make revision to our

2:56:39code that's more aligned to the model

2:56:42code, which

2:56:43they've been tested. These materials

2:56:45been tested. These material are listed

2:56:48um by testing agency that are nationally

2:56:51recognized. Um so,

2:56:54short answer is we don't do the test,

2:56:57but

2:56:58long answer is I'm not

2:57:00sick yet from the water quality in in my

2:57:03home.

2:57:04>> Now, in the PEX water piping inside the

2:57:07the the dwellings here, it actually

2:57:09entered the entered the code in 2007

2:57:13for high purity water only, which was

2:57:14kind of when the RO reverse osmosis

2:57:16process kind of hit town. Um it was

2:57:19approved for everywhere inside

2:57:20residential dwellings in in the 2010

2:57:23code book. So, it's been around for 16

2:57:26years, at least approved by code and

2:57:29there's a there's miles of houses with

2:57:32that utilize either the PEX product or

2:57:34CPVC product, so a plastic material as

2:57:36well.

2:57:38And now, MED is actually transiting to a

2:57:41plastic or HDPE water main themselves.

2:57:44So, I think if they like like like I

2:57:47said, if it was an issue, I don't think

2:57:49they'd be going forward and I don't I

2:57:50think we we we would have heard about it

2:57:52by now.

2:57:52>> Sure. I've got one last question just

2:57:54for clarity.

2:57:56Omaha has its own plumbing code.

2:57:58>> Yep.

2:57:59>> Then there's a model code. Then there's

2:58:01an international code. Does essentially

2:58:04is that the is Omaha its own then the

2:58:07model then the international? I guess I

2:58:09just want to know if we were looking at

2:58:12the highest standard, what would we be

2:58:14shooting for? Would it be the model

2:58:16code?

2:58:17Would it be the international code or

2:58:19like I heard today many people said,

2:58:21"Hey, Omaha has its own code, which

2:58:23makes us unique and which makes us

2:58:25enviable." Where where should we be

2:58:28shooting? Like what's the highest bar?

2:58:31>> The

2:58:33the Omaha plumbing code is probably one

2:58:36of the most stringent code um in the

2:58:38state. Period. Um I say that with a lot

2:58:42of confidence because

2:58:44when you look at a lot of material

2:58:46that's allowed in the model codes,

2:58:49that list has like 10

2:58:53uh approved material. Omaha only allowed

2:58:55three.

2:58:56And so when you when when we when we

2:58:59make those presentations with the

2:59:01building board of review regarding some

2:59:04of the material, we're not introducing

2:59:06something that's groundbreaking. This

2:59:07been allowed in the code for many years.

2:59:10The gold standard for my

2:59:12for for my department in terms of

2:59:15referencing and it would be the

2:59:18international plumbing code.

2:59:20This would reference the international

2:59:22building code, the international

2:59:23mechanical code,

2:59:25and it would make things more clear

2:59:28in terms of what we are trying to

2:59:30implement. They release a commentary for

2:59:34for these codes. They give lecture. They

2:59:37have continuing ed on the international

2:59:40plumbing code.

2:59:42That would be the code that I would say

2:59:44the standard for for us moving forward.

2:59:47Um and that would keep Omaha competitive

2:59:50in terms of projects, in terms of uh

2:59:53trades, in terms of innovations.

2:59:56That would give us a competitive edge.

2:59:59Um but

3:00:01right now we have many many people here

3:00:03supportive of cast iron. Well, we see

3:00:07also proponent of of the product that it

3:00:09doesn't last as long. And so what we're

3:00:13doing is we're providing alternative.

3:00:15We're not mandating one over the other.

3:00:18You as developer gets to choose. You as

3:00:21a homeowner get to choose. And that's

3:00:23what we are going for.

3:00:26>> All right, thank you for that clarity.

3:00:27Thank you for

3:00:29I yield my time. Thank you, Mr.

3:00:31President.

3:00:32>> Thank you, Councilmember Melton. You're

3:00:33recognized.

3:00:34>> Thank you. May um

3:00:37First, I kind of I did my own

3:00:39some of my own research in regards to

3:00:41this. Number one, I supported doing this

3:00:44back in 2015. I actually was on the

3:00:46council. They only allowed it for just

3:00:49the residential. I supported it for

3:00:52the commercial buildings as well in 15.

3:00:54So, I'm like, finally, 11 years later

3:00:57we're finally going to get there.

3:00:59Um at least I hope so.

3:01:01Um but I could find three cities in the

3:01:04entire United States that still said no

3:01:08to the PVC. It was Chicago,

3:01:11>> New York.

3:01:11>> New York, and I found San Le- Le-

3:01:15Leandro, California.

3:01:16>> Oh, you forgot Boston in there, too.

3:01:17>> Is there Was there Boston?

3:01:19>> They limited They limit Boston to four

3:01:20five story uh to

3:01:22>> Oh, I was going to say. Then I found a

3:01:23couple cities that limited it to four

3:01:25stories.

3:01:26>> Correct.

3:01:27>> But those three were the only three that

3:01:28had the same rule as Omaha.

3:01:30>> Yeah.

3:01:31>> Literally. So, all the arguments we

3:01:32heard about safety,

3:01:34I guess that would mean that

3:01:36any building that's been built in any

3:01:39other city other than Chicago, New York,

3:01:42Omaha, or San Leandro is unsafe.

3:01:46>> [clears throat]

3:01:46>> It's the Bay Area. Never been

3:01:48So.

3:01:49Well, they don't allow PVC.

3:01:52>> And and

3:01:53>> But I mean the argument I heard was then

3:01:55every other person that lives in a

3:01:57building outside the city limits of

3:02:00Omaha,

3:02:01Chicago, or New York is

3:02:05there's life is at risk. Their life

3:02:08safety is at risk.

3:02:09>> I don't think

3:02:09>> And when I when I tried to look because

3:02:11I heard that there was that this fire in

3:02:13Oklahoma, um so I looked and actually

3:02:15Oklahoma the state cities can't adopt

3:02:18their own codes, it's statewide and I

3:02:21believe they have the

3:02:22um I believe in Oklahoma they have the

3:02:24inner they've adopted the international

3:02:26code. And after that they didn't do

3:02:27anything different. They didn't pass any

3:02:29other

3:02:30any other laws. I found I went to Texas,

3:02:33I could not find cuz there was somebody

3:02:34here from Texas, so I looked in Texas.

3:02:36No cities in Texas, all cities in Texas

3:02:39allow the the PVC. Um I went to Kansas

3:02:42which we often look to cuz we were

3:02:43talking about cities of the same size,

3:02:45so I wanted to see what Wichita to

3:02:47Topeka um and some of those cities. Um

3:02:50all in Kansas, they all adopted um model

3:02:53codes um in at least in 2021. So in 2021

3:02:57they kind of solidified all that

3:02:59including Overland Park. So there's no

3:03:01cities in in Kansas that I could find.

3:03:04Um

3:03:05we talk about I I was talking with uh

3:03:08Mayor Ewing just today who fully

3:03:10supports this. I mean, Mayor Ewing I

3:03:13think asked the planning department to

3:03:15to

3:03:16>> He says, "We need action." Mayor Ewing

3:03:18says, "I ran on increasing affordable

3:03:21housing."

3:03:21>> Yep.

3:03:21>> And that's what I want to do. And I

3:03:23appreciate your department, Mr. Fanzlaw,

3:03:27in doing the work um to change the code

3:03:30because it's codes and regulations that

3:03:31are the highest

3:03:33increase in the amount of cost of

3:03:35housing. And when they say, "Oh, well,

3:03:36single-family houses already have it,

3:03:38therefore it doesn't affect affordable

3:03:40housing." Well, we have senior living

3:03:43centers. We have multi-family housing.

3:03:46Um we have all kinds of affordable

3:03:49housing that isn't single family homes.

3:03:52>> Yeah.

3:03:52>> So, and those are the units if we're

3:03:54going to increase our units, it's more

3:03:56than single family homes, correct?

3:03:58>> so we will with the proposed change, we

3:04:02will allow multi-family houses with no

3:04:06height restriction to be PVC. However,

3:04:10when I said Omaha is the most stringent

3:04:12code in the state, we are still limiting

3:04:15to when you mentioned assisted living,

3:04:18we're still limiting some of that use.

3:04:20And so it's not like here, open it up to

3:04:23everybody.

3:04:24>> So, it's still limited to the four

3:04:25stories?

3:04:25>> It's still limited No, it

3:04:28It's unlimited height now, unlimited

3:04:32stories now for single for multi-family

3:04:36houses.

3:04:37It put restriction on PVC for factory,

3:04:42for high hazard, as well as a lot of big

3:04:46assembly space like CHI,

3:04:49um

3:04:49you know, event center, you can't use

3:04:51PVC.

3:04:52And also I institution which include

3:04:56assisted living, detection detention,

3:04:59hospital, things like that. And so we're

3:05:02still stringent even though we're trying

3:05:04to make these progress.

3:05:07>> Even though it's allowed everywhere

3:05:08else.

3:05:09>> Even though it's allowed everywhere. And

3:05:10and I

3:05:11>> well well except Chicago and New

3:05:12>> tell you that was

3:05:14some of that pushback came after the

3:05:16public hearing

3:05:18with the plumbing board and also

3:05:20listening to the code committee because

3:05:23we came in with the mentality of trying

3:05:25to align more with the

3:05:27the model code and we we had to make

3:05:30compromise because we need to move

3:05:32forward. And so we're still being

3:05:35restrictive in terms of our use for

3:05:38PVC.

3:05:39Whereas you are right in the model code,

3:05:43it is allowed with no restriction.

3:05:45>> Okay. Well, I know cuz I heard a lot

3:05:47about well, it's fast, cheap, and right.

3:05:49But again, this isn't just Papillion

3:05:52allows it and Bellevue allows it. I

3:05:53mean, the entire nation allows it.

3:05:56>> Correct. This is nationwide.

3:05:57>> Okay.

3:05:58And then, when we were talking about

3:06:00security, the fire code I mean, fire

3:06:03code still applies.

3:06:04>> Oh, absolutely.

3:06:05>> There's fire codes and building codes.

3:06:07And so, what you're saying is we're not

3:06:08going to repeat it

3:06:10>> Mhm.

3:06:10>> because it's in another code. So, the

3:06:12requirement's already there.

3:06:14>> Yeah.

3:06:14>> And so, instead of repeating ourselves

3:06:16in various codes, we want to have one

3:06:18code that lists

3:06:19>> Yeah.

3:06:19>> that has all these regulations that have

3:06:21to be filed that have to be followed.

3:06:23>> Yeah.

3:06:23>> So, any of the fire suppression or fire

3:06:25requirements, and some of it might be no

3:06:29PVC and and

3:06:31certain I I think what you said in

3:06:34certain instances what you're putting in

3:06:36there.

3:06:36>> Well, that that is in the plumbing code.

3:06:39>> as well?

3:06:39>> In in the in the building code, there is

3:06:41no restriction in terms of the use of

3:06:43PVC. Now, I do want to make a

3:06:46>> You put that in the plumbing code.

3:06:47>> We we put that in the plumbing code.

3:06:49>> Okay.

3:06:50>> However, I would tell you the higher the

3:06:51building, the more protected that

3:06:53building is.

3:06:54So, um there's a gentleman that talks

3:06:56about um

3:06:58eight stories reach and all that. I

3:07:01mean,

3:07:04the higher the building, the more

3:07:06protected it is. Period. There is a

3:07:08section

3:07:09>> Pursuant to the building code.

3:07:10>> Sorry. In the building code. In the

3:07:12building code, when you are over 75

3:07:15stories, you're required to have an all

3:07:17non-combustible construction.

3:07:19All combustible construction are

3:07:20required to can be concealed. All those

3:07:23concealed are required to be at least

3:07:25one or two hours rated.

3:07:27>> Okay. So, I mean, so there are other

3:07:29>> Absolutely.

3:07:30>> There are other codes that would apply

3:07:31when it comes to the fire safety.

3:07:32>> the reason why the

3:07:34the international uh code they reference

3:07:37each other so it's not being repeated

3:07:39elsewhere.

3:07:40>> So, why don't we just adopt the

3:07:42international

3:07:42>> That's a great question.

3:07:43>> Okay.

3:07:44All right.

3:07:46Seems like

3:07:48>> [laughter]

3:07:48>> seems like that would be better, but

3:07:50I'll I'll I'll refrain and I'll That's a

3:07:52great question. I'll defer to my

3:07:53colleague. Thank Thank you.

3:07:55>> Thank you, Councilmember Harding. You're

3:07:56recognized.

3:07:58>> Thank you, Mr. President. I think most

3:08:01of my questions have been answered, but

3:08:02just for

3:08:03the sake of a couple things, I'll ask to

3:08:05be

3:08:06to repeat some things. But first of all,

3:08:09I can attest to Lay's thoroughness in

3:08:11her plan reviews.

3:08:13>> Oh, I appreciate that. You're

3:08:15>> Um and and again, I think it's it's

3:08:17important to to repeat that what Lay

3:08:20also said that this is not a mandate.

3:08:23It's an option. We're giving the option

3:08:26of for developers and developments for

3:08:30of residential and commercial properties

3:08:32for other materials to use, but

3:08:35I think you were at the end you're

3:08:38uh asking what it from or answering to

3:08:41Ms. Melton

3:08:42on the system protections specifically

3:08:45in high-rises.

3:08:46>> Yeah.

3:08:46>> So, if you if you wouldn't

3:08:48mind, please go through that again.

3:08:50>> So, um 75 ft above the fire department

3:08:54access is required high-rise.

3:08:57Which means like one gentleman has said,

3:09:00like around you looking at seven or

3:09:01eight feet eight story high. Um those

3:09:05require

3:09:07uh more fire protection. So, when you

3:09:09are above four stories,

3:09:11the shaft of protecting all the, you

3:09:14know, all the lines for sprinkler and

3:09:18all that, that's required to be rated

3:09:21for two hours when you

3:09:23exceed four um

3:09:25four stories. Now, I I do want to

3:09:28mention um

3:09:30a very recent event, which is 9/11. Uh

3:09:34when no building

3:09:36at that point in 2001 was made to

3:09:39withstand jet fuel.

3:09:41So, when that happened, the

3:09:44International Code Committee has um

3:09:48put another provision in the high-rise

3:09:51to address um

3:09:53life safety and how people get out.

3:09:56And so, in Mutual of Omaha, I was

3:09:59educated by Mutual of Omaha cuz we never

3:10:01had a building that is called a super

3:10:04high-rise.

3:10:05And so,

3:10:07I was wondering like, wait, why do you

3:10:09have an extra set of stairs?

3:10:11But apparently in the code, and I've

3:10:13been educated by them, and I'm glad I

3:10:15did, um

3:10:17that the reason why that provision was

3:10:20put in place is because during 9/11, the

3:10:23stairwells where first responder goes up

3:10:26and people exiting, they create a

3:10:28bottleneck. And then a lot of people

3:10:31actually die from that because of that

3:10:34bottleneck. So, in a high-rise

3:10:36provision, you actually have stairs

3:10:39that's dedicated just for fire

3:10:41department access.

3:10:42Um you can't use this as an egress. You

3:10:44can't use it as

3:10:46um a way to to get out. So, that has to

3:10:49be clearly marked.

3:10:51Also, um elevator has to be protected

3:10:54differently. I mean, when when you come

3:10:58when you have a high-rise building,

3:11:00there is so many

3:11:02um provision in the code that says you

3:11:04have to go to a all non-combustible

3:11:08uh and everything has to be protected.

3:11:10At one point, the stairs can't even be

3:11:13made out of wood um in a non-combustible

3:11:16protection. That changed in the 2021

3:11:19code that they now allow stairs to be

3:11:21wood um in a non-combustible

3:11:24uh

3:11:25construction. And so, there's a lot of

3:11:27provision in the code that protects a

3:11:29building the farther it goes up. The

3:11:32higher it went, the more protection it

3:11:34is, and I can

3:11:36um

3:11:37And there's the whole chapter, I mean,

3:11:39the whole section dedicated just for

3:11:40high-rise and any building

3:11:43um with 75 ft above fire department

3:11:45access.

3:11:48>> Okay, I think the rest of my questions

3:11:50had already been answered and answered,

3:11:52so I appreciate your time. Thank you.

3:11:55>> Leah, I had one

3:11:57I I it won't be five, I promise, but at

3:11:59least one or two more questions.

3:12:01>> Yeah.

3:12:01>> If we pass this

3:12:03and

3:12:05Joe Smith wants to build a 20-story

3:12:07apartment high-rise.

3:12:10You're saying we change this code, it's

3:12:12going to make it affordable and cheaper.

3:12:15Is that what I'm hearing from you today?

3:12:17>> Based on the cost of PVC and cast iron,

3:12:21I would say yes.

3:12:22>> So

3:12:23Joe Smith builds an apartment that's 20

3:12:25stories high and it takes 3 years to

3:12:27build.

3:12:28And Danny Begley wants to go buy or rent

3:12:30an apartment there.

3:12:32Are you telling me that the developer

3:12:34all of a sudden my apartment that I'm

3:12:36going to go rent is going to be cheaper?

3:12:38Because we're saving them a substantial

3:12:40amount of money according to what we're

3:12:41hearing from parts of this today.

3:12:44>> Yeah.

3:12:44>> That that's going to make more

3:12:46affordable housing.

3:12:48>> I can only answer to the fact that these

3:12:50regulations, um, in terms of the cost

3:12:53saving of putting together a building. I

3:12:55don't know if I can answer your question

3:12:57regarding if the money get translate to

3:12:59the renter or to the to the homeowner.

3:13:04Um, that is something where I know the

3:13:08the, um,

3:13:10mayor's office have had numerous and

3:13:12continuous conversation with our

3:13:14department. But in terms of regulation,

3:13:17my answer to you is yes, it would be

3:13:19cheaper to build a story a 20-story

3:13:22apartment building with PVC than it is

3:13:25with cast.

3:13:26>> Cheaper for the developer.

3:13:27>> Cheaper building cost, construction

3:13:29cost.

3:13:30>> For the developer.

3:13:31>> Construction cost.

3:13:32>> Okay.

3:13:33Okay.

3:13:35And and also

3:13:37you talked about um

3:13:41the meetings that you had. The I don't

3:13:43know how many, right? You sent it to me.

3:13:45I appreciate you sending that over to me

3:13:46today. I don't have it with me. But

3:13:49when you had those meetings, was there a

3:13:52lot of compromising in them?

3:13:54How did that go?

3:13:55>> So

3:13:56>> Cuz there was no minutes, I don't think.

3:13:57>> Yeah, there there isn't minutes and, um,

3:13:59you know, moving forward it's lesson

3:14:01learned for for myself at least. Um, but

3:14:04I would say we came in with our proposed

3:14:07change and we just go through those

3:14:08changes. Um, and when we, um,

3:14:14when we look at everything, obviously we

3:14:16don't have a silver bullet that satisfy

3:14:19everybody. So, we can only say this is

3:14:21this is the right direction and so we

3:14:24proceed with the majority on some of

3:14:26these decisions.

3:14:28>> Well, welcome to our world. We sit here.

3:14:31We try to get agreements through

3:14:33democracy. Obviously, we we work

3:14:35together and with the mayor that the

3:14:38document we have before us today,

3:14:40uh, I know there were meetings and

3:14:42none of us were in them, but we look at

3:14:45the recommendations then our body does

3:14:48what we feel we need to do, either

3:14:50support it,

3:14:52oppose it, or try to make it better

3:14:56for everybody to see what that looks

3:14:57like. So, uh, appreciate everybody being

3:15:00here today and, uh,

3:15:04your work on this as well.

3:15:06>> Thank you.

3:15:07>> Um, Council member Melton, you're

3:15:09recognized.

3:15:09>> Thank you. Sorry, I should have put my

3:15:11light back on, but I had a I had a

3:15:12motion. I'm asking to lay the vote over

3:15:15for 1 week. I'm going to be out of town,

3:15:18um, next week. I know Mr. Fester sends

3:15:21out of town today. Um, I think with the

3:15:23amount of time we spent on this today, I

3:15:26would also like a couple more weeks to

3:15:28get some questions answered, but I will

3:15:29be out of town next week. I am asking to

3:15:32lay over the vote to November 10th.

3:15:35>> I'll second.

3:15:36>> Thank you.

3:15:37>> Thank you. We had a motion to lay over

3:15:40the final,

3:15:42um,

3:15:43third reading and vote for November

3:15:4510th. Had a motion and a second.

3:15:47Oh, did I close the public hearing?

3:15:49>> Yeah, you did.

3:15:49>> All right. I went tough. I know. It's

3:15:51been a long day.

3:15:52>> I don't want to I don't want to keep the

3:15:54public

3:15:54>> Yeah. Get in trouble. So,

3:15:56[clears throat] we had a motion and a

3:15:56second to lay over item 38

3:16:00to November 10th.

3:16:01>> Third reading, yep.

3:16:02>> Third reading.

3:16:03>> November 10th, yep.

3:16:04>> We good?

3:16:05>> Yep.

3:16:05>> Okay. Roll call.

3:16:06>> Good one.

3:16:07>> Yes.

3:16:07>> Harding.

3:16:08>> Yes.

3:16:08>> Hug.

3:16:08>> Yes.

3:16:09>> Melton.

3:16:09>> Yes.

3:16:09>> Rowe. Mr. President.

3:16:11>> Aye.

3:16:12>> Motion passed 6-0.

3:16:17Item 39, Playground Boss appeals the

3:16:19rejection of their bid from October 7th,

3:16:212026 for City of Omaha Pheasant Run Park

3:16:24Playground renovation.

3:16:29>> Okay.

3:16:30This is not a public hearing. If we have

3:16:32anyone from the company

3:16:34Are they You just said they were on Zoom

3:16:36and they're not.

3:16:38So,

3:16:40do we have the city present since

3:16:41Tyler's here?

3:16:43Right.

3:16:44>> Tyler Haney for the City of Omaha Law

3:16:46Department.

3:16:47Um they've appealed their bid. Um the

3:16:49reason is that they did not provide an

3:16:52electronic

3:16:53>> gentlemen, if you could please take the

3:16:54conversations outside. We need to

3:16:57continue our meeting. Thanks very much.

3:16:59Tyler.

3:17:00>> They didn't provide an electronic copy

3:17:01of their bid bonds, um which they are

3:17:03required to do. Um in their appeal, they

3:17:06actually admitted that they did not

3:17:07require an electronic

3:17:09provide an electronic copy of the bid

3:17:11bond saying they thought it would be

3:17:12enough if they just provide a letter um

3:17:15saying they're able to get one and mail

3:17:17it in later. Um so,

3:17:20as we've done many times in the past, uh

3:17:22the recommendation is that you deny the

3:17:24appeal.

3:17:24>> Move to deny the appeal.

3:17:26>> Second.

3:17:27>> You got a motion and a second to deny

3:17:29the appeal. No further lights. Roll

3:17:32call.

3:17:32>> Good one.

3:17:33Harding.

3:17:34>> Yes.

3:17:34>> Hug.

3:17:35>> Yes.

3:17:35>> Melton.

3:17:35>> Yes.

3:17:36>> Rowe. Mr. President.

3:17:37>> Aye.

3:17:38>> Motion passed 6-0. Non-action items,

3:17:41items 40 through 56 do not require

3:17:43public hearing or City Council

3:17:44consideration at this meeting, but will

3:17:45be placed on a future agenda for public

3:17:47hearing and or vote. The reason for

3:17:49non-action is noted after the item on

3:17:51the agenda as well as the date the item

3:17:52is expected to appear on an agenda for

3:17:54consideration.

3:17:59>> Second. Got a motion and a second to

3:18:01adjourn. Roll call.

3:18:01>> Good one.

3:18:03Harding.

3:18:04>> Yes.

3:18:04>> Hug.

3:18:04>> Yes.

3:18:05>> Melton. Rowe. Mr. President.

3:18:07>> Aye.

3:18:08>> Motion passed 6-0. Meeting adjourned at

3:18:105:54 or 4:54.

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