2026-10-13 - HHS and Public Safety Committee

We'll take a moment to get the livestream. We're live. Almost dropping the third key now. And it's loading. Oh, we probably are on some but I'm trying to set the live and it says we're being used on a

different one I think last year one might be used for the special meeting. Oh, so we're not we're not live streaming because there are other session. Yes. But folks, attendees should be able to see

and hear us. Yeah, I mean, and we probably are live on Facebook. Okay, but I'm not sure. Okay. It's like, okay to announce. Yes. Okay. Thanks everybody for joining the Tuesday, October 13 meeting of

the Health and Human Services and Public Safety Committee on the assistant city manager for the city of Portland. I'm just going to announce briefly that members of our Council Committee are still in

another council meeting going on, as we speak, they will be wrapping up in the next 10 to 15 minutes or so so we're going to have a short delay in this meeting. We're just going to put go screens dark

for a few minutes, but hang tight and we will be hoping to start. Hopefully no later than 545 will come on with updates. If there are any but stick with us, and we'll be back. Thanks very much, Adam

you have something you can put up. Awesome. Thank you. Adam are you there. Oh, there we go. It was saying our panelists links were expired. Okay. Yeah, Adam, can you send one to Dina please. She's

missing. Thanks. April is on the panelists side if you could, I mean on the attendees side if you could move over. Alright, Adam are we already streaming. Yes. Thank you. Apologies to Adam our trustee

executive assistant, and to everyone on the public side as you probably surmised and heard from the assistant city manager. And this is the October meeting of the Health Human Services and Public

Safety Committee of the Portland City Council, and we were held up in an executive session about urgent manner that we needed to discuss concerning real estate and some stuff with our attorney. So

without further ado, I welcome you to tonight's Health Human Services and Public Safety Committee meeting. My name is Anna bullet I represent District four in the Portland City Council and I am the

chair of this committee. I will have my colleagues who are on the committee and the mayor introduce themselves counselor for your why don't you go first. Hey everyone, April for near at large

counselor and member of the committee. What's the year counselor for district to another committee and counselor McNivitch, you with us, so counselor McNivitch is here, just, we're all trying to

figure out our way back as we migrate platforms. And it looks like the mayor is taking a call but the mayor is also joining us tonight. So for city staff assistant city manager Jordan Do you want to

go around. Sure I'm Greg Jordan assistant city manager, I'll pass it to Maggie. Hi, I'm Maggie McLaughlin director of Health and Human Services I'll pass it to fire chief Johnson Chad Johnson the fire

chief, and I think that might consist all of us. We get. Oh, she threw bombs. I mark it was a police chief. Thank you everybody for your patience with us as we navigated our very busy schedules this

evening. To add to the fun I was in a Metro board meeting before I even got to the executive committee this evening so I've just been in front of my camera for most of the day. So the first thing on

our agenda is I would take a motion to approve the meeting minutes from September, I guess, moved by counselor pelletier seconded by counselor for near counselor McNivitch how do you vote. Yes,

counselor pelletier. Yes, counselor for near. Yes, and I am a yes, so let the record show that the meeting minutes from September have been approved. So the next item on our agenda tonight is going to

be a verbal update from director McLaughlin around where we're at with winter warming director McLaughlin share what you're able to share, and if there's some unknowns that's okay as well. Thanks,

I'll just repeat kind of what I just shared in advance of the executive session. The winter warming process in the spring was discussed again I H H SPS committee meeting with a clear preference for on

peninsula solutions that operated nightly. In response to that request for expression of interest was released by the city at the end of June. That expression of interest was really transparent and

saying we don't have the staffing or the building to be able to do this ourselves we're interested and creative partnerships to move this forward. And as a result of that RFI at the end of July. Some

two respondents came in. The first was seeds of hope, who is an operator working in the homeless area. Based on Bedford, they were interested in being an operator. They've been active in the space for

nearly 20 years including successful winter warming operations out of Bedford. And the second was Preble Street, who noted that if there were no other available locations at the basement of Elena's

way or 252 Oxford Street would be, they would consider partnering on it. So we brought those partners together. And then very very shortly afterwards main housing release the request for expressions

or the request for proposals for winter warming. The proposal was quickly put together and submitted. Seeds of Hope was awarded $360,000 for main housing to do that work out of our total request of

$688,000 to do that work. There have been some challenges since that time and when we can update further we will. We'll also add that we all have also, we wrote a letter of support for State Street

Shelter which will be operating a family shelter overflow for the winter warming period. And that will operate all winter warming facilities from November 15 through to April 30 based off of the Misha

current guidelines. That's all I can say right now. Everybody is required to do it go nightly based off of the Misha grant changes. Fantastic. Alright, thank you so much for that update. Are there any

questions for the director given that we know there's many moving parts right now. Seeing none. Thank you so much. And I'll just make the announcement I know there's plenty of people from the public

here. We are working as fast as we can on some of the legal conversations and potential real estate conversations that need to happen. To be able to make a public announcement as soon as possible. So

just know that that is happening. And, again, thanks to the mayor for being here tonight as well. I'm moving on the next item on our agenda is our charitable food distribution discussion there's a

really great memo I encourage everybody on the committee and on the council and in the public to read this memo. And I don't know who's taking this one is that going to be you, Assistant City Manager

Jordan. Yeah, I'll, I'll take it and hopefully get some assistance here and there. I am going to share my screen and copy Brendan our finance director who likes to share memos instead of slide decks.

We'll see if looks like zoom has changed their interface so I'm getting confused here is that comes that coming through. Okay, good. All right. So, there was a great update. Back in July, about really

the year one of the food distribution site at cotton street. And before even kind of get going I want to give a lot of credit to the city manager Dina Libner and Maggie McLaughlin for their work,

coordinating amongst all the various nonprofit food providers that are out there, who as you very well know we're distributing food across the city and in a way that made it difficult, and a lot of

reasons so great work to get it all kind of coordinated and consolidated into mostly one location. And we certainly as a memo kind of points out here at the beginning, are seeing very positive effects

as a result of this partnership with all of our partners. At the very top of the memo it lists, some of those things and these were reported by by staff at the July meeting. And I'm going to kind of

go through just at a high level some of the things that were reported out back in July, the cotton street location provides essentially central location reliable food access. It's coordinating all

these providers in one area, it's giving a lot of reliability and consistency to our people out there that we're trying to serve. It gives us a great opportunity to make more connections to services

for people. But as we have experienced in the first year, there are a number of neighborhood impacts that we're, we're trying to wrestle with and figure out what's the best way to address those,

particularly if this operation and this program and this is going to be at this location for the foreseeable future. And so as I think Maggie reported quite well last July, there has been a, both an

increase and a concentration in calls for service to the police department. They span a number of kinds of kinds of calls that are there listed in the memo for you. We have seen an increase in reports

of trash and litter around the area. We've seen, you know, broader changes in some of these trends on peninsula which suggest can't exactly conclude but suggest that there's been some concentrating

effect. There's been some decreases in calls for service and trash and litter across other areas of the peninsula and an increase in this area. We also have reports of, you know, minor encampments

along sidewalks block sidewalks, doing our best to respond to those. And then the neighbors and businesses in the area have submitted reports to the city about their concerns about the activity in the

area and what can we do to make it a bit better for the overall neighborhood. You know, broadly speaking overall conclusion, a great success in terms of coordinating all these different partners, but

there are some things that we should look at to improve impacts to the neighborhood. And so, staff here at the city, most notably myself Tina Maggie McLaughlin, Health and Human Services Director, our

Public Works Director Mike Murray and our police chief, Mark Du Bois, did a bit of work to see what could be done within existing capacity and within existing budget. And there is not a great deal

more that we can do within existing capacity. I've listed a few of the things that we think are possible in the areas of enhanced communication between outreach staff, between HHS staff and the

partners and the neighbors across the, I'm sorry, the partners to see if we can continue to sort of improve how we're coordinating with them and setting expectations for behavior at the site and other

things like that. The police department working in coordination with HHS, we're going to work to keep strengthening our engagement with the partners to those ends and Public Works Department is going

to, is in the process of conducting some additional evaluation work to see what we can do within existing sort of shifts, what we can do with the downtown Portland downtown ambassadors and what minor

additional equipment might be needed to try to contain some of the trash that gets created and how we can best pick it up. So within the current budget year within existing capacity, those really

represent the limits of what we think we can do as it stands today. So, but looking ahead, we have looked at what it would might take to more materially sort of improved conditions at this site.

Again, if we think it's going to be at this location for the foreseeable future and so we've tried to provide some estimates and some ideas about the enhancements we might need to mitigate these

impacts a bit more permanently going ahead. And so, from the HHS side and Megan can talk more about this additional outreach workers to be on site more consistent consistently during the week and also

on weekends would help with managing the location and the site. We've heard from the police chief in the past the constables program has been a pretty good success and we definitely see the effect of

the constables, when they are present at this location definitely seems to have the effect of sometimes deterring behavior that we don't want to see and certainly they're able to respond to incidents

when they do occur. And so there again we don't have consistent attendance by the constables at Cotton Street every day. Most of the time but not all the time, and then we don't have any presence

during the weekends. And so, another option is to hire more constables, bring them on board and have that greater presence, not only at this site but could be helpful across the downtown as well.

Lastly, in terms of mitigating trash and litter, as I said the Public Works Department would suggest adding at least a half a shift or a half FTE to our Portland downtown crew, and also additional

containers and other equipment that would help contain trash as best we can. So, in the area of things we can do with additional budget capacity. These are some of the ideas that we came up with, and

I'll mention this again toward the end here but if there was a desire to sort of explore these further or to have them be considered as part of the FY 28 budget process, then I think the appropriate

action for the committee at the right time would be to refer this or refer this recommendation or those recommendations to the Finance Committee for their review during the operating budget process so

it can be considered alongside other priorities across the city. There are also other policy options that we could also explore. I know this committee has looked at an ordinance framework in the past

for handling food distribution licensing food distribution, you know very well aware that we have declined to kind of go that route out of a concern that we might we don't want to limit the

availability of food to our neighbors. And so maybe one option could be to take another crack at that option but make sure we're doing it in a way that, you know, make some gains on accountability and

public safety. And the other goals that we're after but also does not limit access to, or maybe in some cases even improve the availability of food to the people who need it. So that's another option

and then of course you know we can continue to explore their sites across the city as you well know those are in a very short number that would accommodate this kind of operation but we could keep

working on that front as well. In terms of fiscal impact as I mentioned, those sort of medium term FY 28 budget capacity improvements would come to about $425,000 per year and recurring costs about

$10,000 in equipment expenses. And as I said, if there was a desire to go in that direction, I think the action would be to refer to the Finance Committee for further direction. And so that's the

balance of this memo and happy to take any questions or comments and talk it through. I'll stop sharing. Thanks so much, Assistant City Manager. I will open it up to members of the committee or the

mayor for questions. Go ahead, Councillor Parnier. Thank you. And thank you Greg just a couple of questions. So I know one of the things I, as you mentioned and as I was reading through the memo. It

seems like the majority of the providers that are distributing food to this area are doing it to the space and within the time allotted. And so I'm just wondering, are we aware because I know the

request to create like a licensing process is to kind of bring everyone under the same umbrella. But I would be interested to know, do we have a sense of how many partners are operating outside of

this location? Is it one or two? Is it five? Because as we talked about, we definitely want to make sure that we're not over regulating the people who are doing the service, but also make sure that

everyone kind of is in the same agreement. Like this is where we agreed this would be happening, whether it continues to be caught in street or another place. Do we have a sense of how many are not

kind of following this framework that we set up? I'm just going to ask Director McLaughlin to chime in on that question. I know it's a handful. Most are certainly participating, but Maggie, do you

have more exact numbers? Yeah, I would say there's a pretty consistent three to five who are operating outside on a weekly or even daily basis of that framework. And then we see, I would say, another

five ish or more that pop in either for a very short period of time. Maybe they're around for a month and then we don't see them again, or they'll pop in for a very short frequent. But once a month,

they'll be here, that type of thing, including we have some form out of state and others. Yeah, I think I would assume many are just trying to be helpful and see to a community need not kind of

recognizing the larger ripple effect that that can have. For the three to five that are pretty consistent, can you talk a little bit about what type of conversations we've had? Are they organizations?

Are they nonprofits? Are they just community mutual aid groups? Like what kind of engagement? So you have the range from formalized nonprofits to community mutual aid groups that are maybe

unregistered. And I would say the same, you know, we've tried to reach out to all of them from various different levels, including, you know, myself going out and giving my business card and saying

love to talk. And we just are, you know, they're not interested in shaping what they're doing to fit within the framework of what we're trying to achieve per se. Got it. Okay. And then second

question, this is actually more around just kind of the enhanced coverage for, again, whether it's this area or another area. I know it sounds like the constables have been relatively successful. And

so one of the budget considerations is adding additional constables. But that would be 170 to 190 thousand per year. Is that considering that these would be new positions added or is there any

consideration for we still have over 20 uniform positions available? Could those be transformed instead into constable positions because they've been open for a while? I can start on that. So the

numbers obviously reflect the cost of the positions, you know, with benefits. I think to your, I mean, and I think we've imagined that as an additional set of employees on the existing staffing level.

The police department continues to try to work toward closing their vacancy gap so that we have the broader officer coverage that we need in this city. And so right now that that's the way it's

presented as an additional set of FTEs. Okay, great. That is all I have for now. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, thank you for the memo. Thank you for the update. I think this reflects some good

work on alternative solutions. So I'll just start with the constables since we just mentioned that. Obviously I'm fielding a lot of feedback from the community, from businesses, from neighbors. And,

you know, some of this is to the point of people saying they're just the things that are impacting the area around it, they're just not renewing leases and wanting to leave. And, you know, we should

be able to do better than that. I would really like, actually I'm going to skip the constables part and just say, I think when we talk about, you know, the regulation piece or trying to get everybody

on the same page about how to deliver services. It's kind of scary, right? It looks like it's, I don't know, like it's putting more administrative burden on an entity. But I guess the way I look at

this is it's an opportunity to reduce friction, to reduce blame on people who are receiving services or people who are providing them. Because the way things are now, it's just there's a lot of, you

know, that seems and is the source of a lot of this, you know, the calls for service support that that's things have changed. So, I just see it as a way of creating a standard of expectations and

doesn't mean that they would be insurmountable but I'm still in favor of going down that road. And the city leading this effort to say, I think actually darkroom with law firms were perfect, you know,

what we were trying to achieve. We have a goal of what we're trying to achieve, which is to provide services in a dignified way. And, you know, we're identifying the things that are making that

difficult. So I'm, I'm still very interested in, in creating some kind of permitting and seeing it as an invitation to participate and not a barrier. And then in terms of the constables, I've gotten

good feedback about about that program. People do see the value in it. I think, you know, sometimes, I think in the beginning they were walking around in a trio and people were like, why are all three

of them together so I don't know that we can have that question. But I, I think having a couple would be beneficial. And I do still want to understand whether this has, if there's a perception that

this has changed the level and type of calls for service that sworn officers have to respond to if the constable program so far has taken some of the, some of the burden for those, you know, lower

level calls off of sworn officers. And the other piece which I don't, it doesn't seem to be on here but, and this might fall into permitting. And if we were to go down that road would be to give

people a mutual understanding of what, you know, of parking, you know where if you're, if you're, you know, doing the service and we are creating a structure within which to deliver something,

including or other services, because that's an issue to the folks that are sort of pull over, and it can you know then block a sidewalk and people end up walking in the street which conflicts with our

pedestrian safety goals. So I think addressing the parking piece is would be helpful to add to this. And then just in terms of the coordination and between the city and communicating to neighbors. I

think that's important I think it's welcome. I also think you know you might get to a point where people are if it's the same message is just, this is what we can do and we can't do anymore. It can be

frustrating, but I do appreciate the, the desire to connect with people, it is usually meaningful. I would just say, don't expect it to, to, you know, last forever that feeling of appreciation if

people don't feel like there's some movement on the actual issues beyond the communication. Yeah, I mean, I, the other question I guess I have is strengthen engagement with providers, and what that

might mean so this is a direct question. What does that relationship look like right now, and what would it mean to strengthen it. I guess I don't know what that's for. Maybe Maggie, do you want me

Greg to speak to engagement. Yeah, would you mind. Sure. Yeah, so right now, I really want to commend the providers that we have for their partnership also want to add an appreciation we this

collaboration has allowed us to expand the number of providers supporting to really include also the faith based community St. Luke's is there first parishes there we meet biweekly to discuss any

challenges and troubleshoot together and they're very participatory. And, you know, I want to commend the partners for showing up. There's always space to improve though. So, you know, for example, if

an instance happens on Tuesday, you know, do we troubleshoot on Wednesday or is it, you know, at the biweekly that kind of thing. So those are small, low hanging fruit that we can probably continue to

enhance. We also have workshops when needed but we could maybe increase those to be more frequent. So those are some of the areas where we could potentially move things around a little bit more.

Another example that we introduce and this has been an iterative process. One is as we brought on more providers who are not normal social service providers, for example, volunteers from the faith

based community, we recognize that they need a different type of training than our normal social support service providers are coming in with so we develop that training so stuff like that. That is

low hanging fruit that we can always continue to revisit and see where we can strengthen. Okay. And just to be clear, there's only three organizations that are actually that have an mo you with the

city. No, there's quite a few now so important downtown in Portland downtown milestone Preble Street, Hope Squad St. Luke's and First Parish are coming up, St. Luke's coming on board to the MIM, but

the rest is pretty clear about expectations. Correct. So everybody's managing I think quite well within the expectations that are there but there's just real constraints with the site and they can't

be on site forever all day and that's where we see many of these problems show up. The last point is that, you know, the calls for service. It was noted that that actually the the increases are

outside of the hours of delivering food, which, you know, would indicate that this is having constables on site, having, you know, ambassadors and passengers on site. All of that's helpful in the

moment, but there's the broader issue of what's happening outside of those hours and overnight and the just the general context of the of the area. That to me seems like the tougher nut to crack but,

you know, the important one controlling what we can control is, is, you know, great at the site, and I think, I guess I'd like to know if there's any, any thoughts about what can be done to address

those issues more better in the public realm and not necessarily happening on that site. I'll just start but I think our thinking around the additional constables if those became an option wouldn't

not just to have more consistent presence during the actual hours of the operation but to have a more consistent presence, both before and after when we're seeing some of these, I guess, incidents or

reports, take place, obviously they can't be there 24 hours a day, but we could expand the level of attention and presence that we have compared to today. Okay, and, and when you come up with a number

of two. Is there any magic to that or is this a sort of a gradual scaling. Yeah, I mean, I would say there was no science behind the two it seemed like a reasonable improvement over what we have

today. As I said it certainly wouldn't cover the full area for all hours of the day but it would be a marked improvement. Okay. Okay, thank you. All right, Councilor Pelletier. Thank you chair. Yeah,

I very much appreciate the memo. I guess my inclination is to go for DPW and HHS staff, just because those seem like solid investments in terms of solving the issue and also having more DPW staff

downtown I think makes this is great all around. And I'm definitely interested in trying to find a more dedicated facility to this. I think having it downtown is not great. Again, I, you know, I

think, sort of created a lot of these issues and are dealing with the unintended consequences of them, and I think it is important to have a place where food distribution can happen in a in a

controlled setting. We're reinventing that so very much, I would like to pursue that and you know, I think this can be wrapped into a lot of a lot of other conversations we're having in terms of

dedicated facilities, maybe smaller scale, rather than trying to build one, one dedicated facility on Peninsula, maybe try to break them up so we can reduce the impact, reduce the cost and, and help

mitigate some of these issues that we're seeing by sort of trying to do everything in one spot, because that I see how we get there. But it's causing a lot of issues. So, I, you know, I think we need

to continue doing this I think the medium term solutions short to medium term solutions makes sense but the long term solution is to, is to look at a broader network of support buildings that we can

do to sort of do the same stuff that I was just talking over and over again so. Thanks counselor yeah that's really helpful I would agree with all of that, I mean, I'll just and I'll get to you in a

second, Mayor but I, I just keep coming back to like the Preble soup kitchen was inside, right, we weren't feeding people outside at when the soup kitchen was open people went inside to sit down and

to eat. And a lot of this is, you know, the consequences, which of course, not blame, I'm not placing any blame, there was COVID there was a million other things. But I agree that the long term

solution is to get this into an appropriate place. Mayor, please share your thoughts with us. I'm going to be echoing much of what Councillor Pelletier said. I think this report is helpful in the

short term to manage the condition and space that we're currently deploying our resources to. I'll be candid, the volume of complaints and the conversations I have one on one. Work great. Okay, they

use some other colorful adjectives, none of them on the positive side of the ledger. And it's under dispute the fact that somebody needs to eat but it's all the conduct that surrounds our efforts. So,

to kind of build upon what Council Pelletier said, I think we need to be very intentional about having an exit strategy. I read this memo, and it sounds like a forever war, we're going to be there

forever, just trying to make it better. And I think we need to devote some effort with true intentionality that foresees a place where that doesn't exist on Cotton Street. Now, I think a brick and

mortar facility is always the best, maybe some distributed feeding locations are also helpful. I don't know, but this congregation at one site has a lot of negatives, and I don't think it's helpful.

So, I think we need to say it in our plan that we're going to decouple ourselves from the central feeding site to something more manageable and less stressful on abutting neighbors in terms of seeing

people having access to food. So, I'll stop because I thought Council Pelletier kind of outlined it well. We commit to the short term but we really got to commit and be shown to be committed to an

alternative strategy that breaks up this idea of a central food station in the city so I won't belabor the point. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, thanks, Mayor. I agree with that. I think Council

Pelletier, you really hit it on the head. I would say it sounds like the staff, hopefully you're synthesizing this direct City Manager Jordan, but that we are asking for a more stable long term

solution. Even if that means, yeah, I don't know what that might mean but a brick and mortar being the absolute ideal and understanding that there's going to be a budget impact but like let's figure

out what that budget impact is right. We're going to have a new makeup on the council we're going to have a new makeup on the county commission. Right. And so there are, there is potential as people

work on 2027 work plans and work on budgets. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And then in the short term. I agree that litter management is got to be tended to. So if there's a way for DPW to to

work that out. I don't know if you need us to do some sort of mid budget amendment or if that money can be found in the meantime. I guess that's a question. At this point, I mean what we presented was

looking at looking ahead to FY 28 so any consideration of a budget impact would go through the budget process and be considered along other other priorities. So that's okay great. So I mean I would

say like let's propose that then in the 2028 budget but again with a very clear understanding that this is not a year over year budget commitment, it is to get us through so that we can get to a

permanent solution, where people are being fed inside a location and or meal distribution is happening in boxed, you know in boxed lunches like it did during coven to where people are with a traffic

it with that not traffic traffic mitigation plan trash mitigation plan for the litter. So, that's where I am at. Councilor MacNamish did you have something else to add before we moved on. Yeah, I do.

I, I agree that having an indoor indoor location is really important. I, I want to make really sure that no one is romanticizing what happens in the vicinity of a facility where that's happening. When

we had the soup kitchen we had the resource center. It was less impact perhaps than the cotton street, but it was, it wasn't that different. And so, creating an indoor space that is dignified for

people or can be delivered out of outside out of the elements. That's, that's obviously the first step. But it's not a magic, it's not a magic bullet we're having this conversation, not because the

feeding is not working, that is, that's what we just heard is that getting food to people, having people engage with services, having other groups come in, that part's working. We're here talking

about this because of the collateral issues that are occurring. And so if we're, if we're just focused on we're going to put money toward mitigating this and then we'll never need it again, it's not,

it's not reality, or we need to figure out how a space is configured or, I mean, I think that's a conversation that needs to be had I don't have that answer, but I, and having just, you know, seems up

close and personal. Every time we have this conversation. It seems to assume that that's going to mitigate the issues that we're here, the broadest here, and it isn't, it just isn't. So, yeah, I don't

think, I don't think that is what's happening I don't think anyone assumes that I think it's very clear from the calls that it's outside of the hours of on site. And, and I guess but that's my point

is that it becomes a 24/7 impact, it isn't just about what happens when people are on site so yeah, whether it's inside or outside that's clearly, that's clearly the case. There is a community impact.

And if we haven't shown that if we haven't demonstrated that we actually can control that you are going to get people fighting this anywhere it goes, so this isn't, this isn't. It's not just a

mitigation strategy. It's a strategy to make it more likely that we can actually achieve this goal of having inside places that work for the whole community. Yeah, and I think it's important that we

all acknowledge that we are trying to keep people fed and alive within systemic failures that are much larger than our city and much larger than us. And that is why we continue to have these

conversations where we're trying to bring in partners at multiple levels of government and from other places but we acknowledge that there is no matter. This will segue well into our next agenda item.

Councillor Pelletier, did you have something to add? >> Yeah, just real quick, I hear what Councillor McPherson was saying, but I think there is no way that we are not going -- we are going to get

away from dealing with chronic poverty without witnessing chronic poverty. And, you know, it's going to make people uncomfortable, and I wish it weren't the case, and I wish we didn't have it, but

until we solve that, we are going to have to deal with that, and it will have an impact. So I do want to underline, you know, looking into all of our solutions with smaller models that can be more

spread out so that, you know, again, there's going to be impact, and people are going to be uncomfortable, and that about seeing the impact of those individuals. You know, seeing the impact of

physical poverty in their neighborhoods, and that's going to be a fact, but how can we mitigate that so that it does not get as bad as it can be? How can we be bringing people into services, and how

can we, you know, try to lessen the impact? So, you know, I don't know that multiple facilities is the best solution, but it does seem like something that we have not tried, and may help, again, sort

of blunt the impact of having so many people congregate in an area. So I just, not to bring us to a dark place, but I want to add just one point of information that as people lose their main care,

more and more people will also be losing case management services. So everything we can do to, you know, try to keep state and federal government in conversation around maintaining main care and

maintaining health insurance is critical because that is what is providing the payment process for a lot of caseworkers, which are then obviously helping people work their way out of this poverty and

out of being in such dire straits. So again, the next item on our agenda is this comprehensive policy framework that Assistant City Manager Jordan has been so wonderful about leading the way on, and I

do think that this kind of segues well into that. So if we're okay with moving on, I think that Assistant City Manager, if you want to queue us up and take it away. I was hoping to say that I that I

think what we're hearing is that, and I want to seem like there is some agreement or consensus around needing a long term stable solution around which we can do a better job mitigating the impacts

while still serving the need. Is that fair to say? Would anybody say that that's not a direction we should go in? And I think you're right. I think you're right, Councillor, that can easily live or be

identified through the process that we're going to talk about in a few minutes. I do want to ask about whether and to what extent we want to refer any recommendations to the Finance Committee on next

year's budget, or if we want to table that for the moment. I heard DPW. And then I also heard HHS staff like outreach workers from Councillor Pelletier. I would be okay with that as well. And when it

comes to the constables, what I heard April saying, or Councillor Fournier, sorry, Councillor Fournier, was, you know, questioning adding more to that budget when we're still struggling with the

uniformed officers. And so we might want to put a pause on that, especially because the program is so new. I think we need a little more data about what their average response is, like what they are

doing and how they are helping. Whereas I think that if we put our money in towards the very tangible trash cleanup, right, from DPW, and then outreach workers from HHS to help, you know, maybe get

some of these folks into the into the HSC, those kinds of things. Is that helpful? Do we want to make a formal referral maybe at the next meeting? Take public comment on it. And then refer it to

finance? Yeah. Sure. Yeah, because we would probably want to see more ironed out numbers. Yeah, we can do that. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay, you want me to move on? Yeah, so the next item on the

agenda is, like I already mentioned, three times, sorry, is the policy framework that you've been working on. Okay, I'm going to share a memo again. So yeah, we had, I think we had a great discussion

at the last meeting about bringing a, bringing a systematic and a strategic sort of approach to how we figure out the solutions we want to pursue on the twin problems. And these were identified at the

last meeting and the things that the committee agreed I think should be our top priorities. How can we keep working on reducing unsheltered homelessness and how can we ensure our, our public spaces

remain safe and accessible. And I think from the left from the last meeting there was some broad agreement that imagining a process for getting to more specific policy solutions could be a good thing.

There's obviously a lot of policy solution, policy solutions that are already being considered in various quarters and moving forward. This effort doesn't have to replace that at all. Hopefully it

could absorb it in the right kind of way. There are two, two big sort of questions that we're asking in this memo tonight. And the first page and a half is just summarizing some of the last, the prior

meetings conversation. But we have two big questions. One is determining or getting your consensus or your direction on what is the most appropriate forum in which to advance this work. We can imagine

three basic options. They're listed there in the table. Number one, keep the work in the Health and Human Services and Public Safety Committee. Number two, is it a big enough and complicated

conversation? Of course it is. But it should be at the full city council and be handled over a series of workshops over many months. And then third, a council appointed special body of some kind, a

task force or something else that would be dedicated to this issue. Providing some advantages to each there and some considerations to bear in mind associated with each. There's probably no perfect

solution or no perfect way to address this. And so looking forward to your questions and comments and thoughts about the best forum to advance the work. Can answer more questions on that when we come

to the end here. The second big section is a much more in-depth or proposed, I guess, process and suggested timeline. And I'll just go to the table here again too. We're kind of here at stage one

talking about the forum scope and process. But we've tried to imagine what this work might look like over the course of several months and several milestones. We had some initial conversation around

some of these elements at the last meeting. And we've added a few in here too for your consideration. And this is very sequential and meant to build on each step. So starting with a discussion around

what are our shared values as a community and in your area as a council. So that we can make sure we have those values in mind as we're considering different policy solutions. Because we know it's

going to be hard to agree on certain things. And it would help staff and I think help all of us if we were making sure to anchor to those core values that we could identify. The third section would be

looking at prior studies that have been done here in Portland. And this is a downloadable study that was done around this issue back in the last decade actually. We want to revisit that a little bit

and see if there's lessons learned and information there that we can take away and use. But also working on documenting our existing conditions. What are we doing today as a city? What are our

partners doing? What are different levels of government doing? And then get a better sense of where interventions are going to make the most sense and have the most effect. There's a lot of cities out

there that are grappling with this. We know this is a systemic societal issue. Some cities are doing better than others. We should take a look at what our peer cities are doing along these lines and

seeing if there are measures, interventions and strategies that we have not yet thought of or that are being used. And we can draw from here in Portland that we think would work here in Portland and

be consistent with our values here also. Obviously, we need to hear from a lot of different aspects of the community. People who are living this every day, our residents, our businesses, service

providers, health care organizations, public safety and so on. We would want to figure out a way to make sure we hear from those different areas of this issue and be able to craft direction based on

trying to meet those different perspectives. Not an easy thing. Then we get into the real heart of the matter, which is trying to define and refine policy goals and measures of success. From there, we

can get into the real work of developing strategies, objectives and actions. This is all very formulaic, I know. But this is sort of the work you need to go through to really key into the things that

we think are going to work and we're going to get buy-in into. And I think importantly, we can sustain and track over time. And then finally, we'd be at next summer preparing an overall plan that we

could hopefully put into action in the following year, more or less. And so that's a draft schedule, draft set of milestones, draft set of exercises for us to go through. I really want to hear your

questions and feedback about it. It seems like a lot and it is. And in terms of fiscal impact, at this point anyway, we don't think we think that we can accomplish most of this with existing staff

resources. So we don't think there's a need for additional budget capacity to accomplish this as long as we have the time to do the work. If there is a need for external assistance, we'll identify

that once we come to a point where we think we need it and we would need to identify budget capacity or a funding source to assist with that. And certainly as we come to policy solutions that would

entail, as we just talked about, budget impact in future areas. And hopefully we can find funding to help us with that. So the requested input or direction for tonight is what do you think is the most

appropriate form to advance the work and any feedback you have on the scope of work that we've outlined and the timeline. And so with that, I'll stop sharing again. Thank you so much for that. I will

open it up to my committee colleagues and the mayor for questions. Go ahead, Councillor. Thank you, Chair. First, Greg, I really, really appreciate the effort that's gone into this. I think this sort

of captures a lot of what I've been talking about and hoping that we could get to over the past two years. So we've got so many different people working on things and there's a lot of silos. And I

think we're demonstrating right now with some of the other issues we've been working on tonight that a lack of sharing of knowledge and coordination has been really harmful. It's really stopped us

from achieving some very important goals and addressing homelessness and addressing some of the other issues we're seeing. So I really do appreciate the holistic approach. I guess when I think about

committee work, I think there's so much else going on. I'm not sure this will get the attention that it deserves. But I think there's a lot of collaboration to make it run as smoothly as we might

want. So and only meeting once a month, I think that might be kind of hard. Like with the Social Housing Task Force, for example, we met usually a couple times a month and it was or had special

meetings. So that's kind of what I'm thinking about is how it did follow a pattern such as you've laid out and I think the end result was a really strong product. And we really did go over a vast

array of potential solutions where the places are doing and came up with a solution that works uniquely for Portland. And I'm more inclined to think about it that way. And again, I think with the full

council, our capacity, our bandwidth is limited. And it's also limited, not just in terms of time, but by the, and I say this in a negative way, but interests, like we all have a lot of meetings, a

lot of commitments and competing, you know, things competing for our time. You know, the folks who are able to participate and join in the most tend to be coming to all of those meetings. So my

preference certainly would be for something along the lines of a task force. And, you know, I think that that feels very much like what you've laid out. I think that obviously wouldn't start, you

know, October would probably be, you know, that would be a longer run up. But that would also make more sense because it would put it into the next council year when you've got a better sense of who's

participating. So, yeah, that's that's where I land on all of that. And I'm just I am actually tremendously excited by this idea of doing something that's a little bit more. It's more holistic and

that is engaging with partners and opinions and ideas beyond the confines of just the council. Thank you so much for that. Councillor Pelletier or Councillor Fornier. Councillor Fornier, I know you

have to duck out at seven. So I wanted to give you the opportunity to chime in if you want. I know you're I know you're listening. Councillor Pelletier, are you good? Go ahead. Yeah, no, this is a

very helpful move. Yeah. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Go ahead, Councillor Fornier. Never mind. We can't hear you. Go ahead, Councillor Pelletier. So sorry, I'm driving. So my audio might. Can you read

out? No. All right. Never mind. I'll tell you what happens. Councillor Pelletier. Okay. I'll get one. Okay. Oh, sorry. Keep talking. My phone is misbehaving. I'll be brief. I'm so sorry. I'm driving

because I have to get to something else. But I would actually echo a lot of what Councillor McNeavitch said. I think the bandwidth for committee work is, you know, we have a lot of things on committee

plates. The full council also has a lot of things. So I was very impressed with what the social housing task force was able to accomplish with having a very specific focus and a very diverse

composition because I think you got a lot of different ideas in the same place. Yeah. And I like the way that this was that it was presented in the memo just as far as who we would want to consider to

have included as part of those conversations, especially those with lived experience and those who are in the neighborhood. Those are in the business community because I think there's just such global

impact to what we're seeing, being able to have so many people at the table that are just specifically focusing on how can we find some solutions is definitely a much more attractive option to me. I

would love to see included in that, selfishly, because I am moving on to state legislatures also looking at how can we include county voices and state voices because I think this is going to include

that multi pronged approach where you do have different buckets of money and different solutions and different policies even that would come into play with any solutions that are developed. So I would

definitely be much more inclined to lean into the, whether you call it task force whatever you want to call it, I think that makes the most sense to me. And I think the timeline Councillor McKnight,

which laid out also definitely makes sense because you do have new counselors that will be coming in, you have new legislators you have new county commissioners, so it may make sense to name that.

Once you have kind of everyone seated where they're going to be and identify, you know, who would be the best participants for that but also again, a lot of gratitude for staff for putting it

together. I think this really lays out, and the most immediate response that we can do as a municipality with some very real next steps that I think the community will appreciate. Thank you. I'm glad

that the audio was able to work out. Councillor Pelletier. Yeah, largely I could that I would really want to make sure that we are, you know, a task force makes sense to me, I want to enter that with

a strong directive, probably, you know, agreed on by Council, you know, what exactly are we trying to do here, is it to, you know, put some numbers down, you know, reduce chronic homelessness, reduce

physical poverty, like, you know, I don't just want to be going around it's like I don't want to be have spent months being like well, how do we move homeless people off the peninsula, because that

sort of has been what our discussion has been around. And I think we need to be looking at more long range, long term solutions in terms of like, what are we going to do to get people into services

and get people into some form of shelter that is maintainable and, you know, sustainable. And so we do not spend every year playing the hover over the one whack a mole spot waiting for the mold to pop

up and then, you know, hitting it with varying levels of success. So, I think defining what the goal is is really important. Yeah, I would agree with that, Mayor. Thank you, Greg, for your work, you

and Dina. This is important. I think it's helpful. I was optimistic with the Social Housing Task Force because of the cross section of people that were appointed and I think they focused and gave us

some deliverables that we can act on. I too would not want to see it spinning around trying to hit each and every social issue that's confronting the city. We should have some sort of laser approach

so that we have something substantive to report back to the council but I think the structure you've outlined Greg seems to have that promise. I think that's important. Just as an editorial comment to

my dear colleague, Councilor Fournier, I was chuckling here off camera that you've already assigned yourself free time to work with the city and you haven't hit the floor of the house yet. Check back

to me on that issue about six weeks in. We'll always welcome your participation. Your free time is a jump ball right now so just bear that in mind. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, thank you. I also

hesitate to assign time when folks haven't started their new roles yet, but you know who has already done that? Council McNivitch and I were at a meeting last Monday and Senator Talbot Ross had Mike

Dixon there. We can't necessarily assign people time but there's a certain Senator from Portland that can so that's always important to remember too. I think that this makes a lot of sense. Assistant

City Manager Jordan, what I'm hearing is that we are interested in a short term special body, be that called a task force or something else, based on the structure that seemed to be quite successful

from the social housing task force. I'm hearing that it's really important to everybody on the committee that there's a cross section of representatives from people with lived experience to people in

the behavioral health realm. I would also add that I would think someone from law enforcement should be there, and then hopefully someone from the county, and then healthcare as well would be helpful

and I don't know about the schools, I would, I would, I would open the invitation to them perhaps, but I think that a lot of this structure and Mayor correct me if I'm wrong, you would want to outline

in legislative and nominating or we can have the staff draft something based on how the social housing task force was created. Yeah, I think the staff can draft something, it could come from this

committee doesn't really matter. This is a matter of process, because I think the specific directive, this comes up held here outline should come from the council. So the members of the I'll call it a

task force, very clear that this, this is the expectation this is the anticipated work product that the council is seeking from the group. So, that's how I would envision it you bring it forward, we

discuss it as a council make amendments to it if necessary, or not, and then we get into the business of appointing or populating that task force. Thank you, that's really helpful direction. And the

other one I wanted to mention assistant city manager is someone from continuum of care, I think should definitely be included from the state level and then I'm sure as you as the staff get together

you'll make a list of people of sectors that should be included. Okay, so, Councilman damage I'll get you in one second. I just want to make sure that I'm reflecting everything I heard and then that

timeline does make sense and I guess the question is, assistant city manager. Does that, would you be able to bring us something to the December meeting so that in January, the Council has something

to look at, so that they, we could start assigning individuals. And partly my question which I think the mayor mostly answered, which is at this point, if this is the direction we want to go in we

have to, I would suggest we come back next month, and have that conversation around I guess those, those sectors of representation we want to make sure we're covering, and then I think it falls to you

as, as the, as the Council to determine the actual people you might want to appoint, correct me if I'm wrong, I think once we have that sort of laid out along with, I guess the committee's sense of

what the charge of the task force would be, you know, that along with the membership of go to the council I would think and yeah January we could be ready for January. Mayor did you have something

else to add some. One quick thing just for your consideration is when you're thinking of population, you know if you can keep it, you know, under a dozen, you might get decisions faster than body. I

think it might be helpful if you assign the responsibility to seek certain voices as part of their, their deliberation for lack of a better term right now. I mean that's a way to make sure everyone's

heard without necessarily having every single person on the body because then you could easily approach Congress level and you know you need a two tier dias of 23 people. But I think that's, that

would be something that I would impress upon the chair or co chairs of the task forces, the council expects these particular voices or constituencies to be brought into the conversation as a way to

get the information without necessarily creating a mini bureaucracy to process it. Right. We don't want too many cooks in the kitchen. Got it. There you go. He said it better than I did. Councillor

McKnight Yeah, thank you for that. I think, again, I kind of look to social housing task force look at to, you know, that was about was what 13 people, you know, and I felt like it was it was nimble

it was focused. It didn't get to know often the weeds. And so, yeah, I mean something in that range would would seem like a good, a good number. And then the facilitation by GP CAWG in that case was

also really really helpful. So, I guess I'm, I'm wondering if that might fit into something like this to where we've got sort of an outside facilitator who has a little bit of, you know, the broader

view, and may be able to provide some assistance in managing the task force. And the, the other piece and I will take a look. I'm not sure if this is in the timeline is the part of the way I've looked

at this in the past is that it really benefit us to do some, you should call it asset mapping or, you know, or, or, or yeah map mapping our system map, and understanding what we have what we don't

have what the gaps are players are. And that that that might actually be better accomplished by an independent body so that it's not so that there's maybe more global confidence that it's, it's not

hearing toward any one direction, you know, it has a little bit of more purity to it. And so that of course would be potentially a fiscal impact but I just, I think that might help create some clarity

and a little bit of perspective for everybody who is is participating. Yeah, I hear that I'm assistant city manager Jordan did you want to add to that. Yeah, I would just echo that, I think strong as

I think we said in the memo strong facilitation I think would be needed for for for a task force, and I would have full confidence in GP cog to provide that if they have the bandwidth and ability to

provide that they may also be a source that can help us identify maybe some funding, if we do end up needing it for different aspects of this to do, and parts of it that may be there beyond our

technical capacity or we want third party, sort of distance on things of that nature but these are things we'll have to sort of flush out over the next month or two. Yeah, and I see that number three

in the phase is identifying the different things that are happening so I know you didn't say asset mapping in there but it's, it does step three does outline that. And I also will stress again a lot

of this work should be being done by the continuum of care and so hopefully they would be helpful partner in that. But I, so, in terms of reaching out to GP cog, do you want me to do that, do you want

to do that, either. And nominate you but I can you need me to. That's fine. Let us, what do you need for direction from us at this juncture. I think, I don't think we need to belabor it now but maybe

it's you meeting and the mayor just like articulating what exactly needs to happen between say now and January when Council takes some sort of action. I'm not 100% clear on the steps and vehicles

through which we need to sort of get to that point so I think we can have some of that conversation offline though. Okay, sounds great. And then what we could do is put this on the agenda for next

time with just an update, you think, for November, not with necessarily any action but just like an update of where we are in the process. Yeah, it might be for action if you're referring your

recommendation to the Council on how this ends up getting formed and move forward so but we can play that by your. Okay. Are there any other questions. Okay, the fire chief is with us this evening and

sorry so I'm going to move us along. The fire chief has been waiting very patiently and I thank you so much for that Chief Johnson to provide us with our safety update for this month, so I will give

you the floor, Chief Johnson. Okay, yes. All right, perfect. Adam, did you want to start that slide deck for us. What we'll do as soon as Adam gets it up on the screen we just got a few slides are

going to run through to give you a quick update of the fire department around calls for service. This year and what our, what our trends are starting to look like and, and so forth. So all do is I'll

start right on this. And we're seeing your email not the slideshow I know you were trying to make it go into full screen mode. I could understand what you were trying to do. One moment, go back home.

Thank you. And this presentation is in everybody's packet as well, basically, up on the city website. There we go. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Adam. All right, go ahead and just kick through. Well,

first thing we'll start talking about is our calls for service in the general brackets that we break them down into on the next slide. And what this slide is going to show you is we basically we break

it into seven different categories, three of which are medical EMS related and two three of which are fire and then one is general technical work type rescues. So you kind of get a vision of, of where

those numbers lie but essentially if you look at the 2026 totals in reference to the 2025 totals where we're capturing we're right in line to do, nearly the same calls for service that we did last

year, which is actually probably good because we typically see a two to 4% increase every year. So we're probably a little less than that right now in the increase which is, which is a good thing.

You'll notice that the 2025 stats I just call out the total for the year by the quarter, because we've basically gone, starting at 2026 we went to a new reporting system nationwide in regards to fire

and EMS so these are the new categories that that our new reporting system spits out to us so go ahead Adam on this talks about our ambulances our fire trucks and our specialty companies, just so you

can kind of get a vision of what their volume actually looks like. So you can see that if you went back to 2022 again we are volume increases every year just by enough to show increase the specialty

companies are kind of laying flat and just a reminder to one, the specialty companies are the airport, the peaks island company, our C9 supervisor which is our EMS supervisor, and our marine division

down at the fire boat. So those, those are staying more of a constant whereas our mainland ambulances and fire companies do continue to see that just ever so slight increase. Go ahead, Adam. This one

breaks it down by actual company. You can see that engine five on the far left is looking to break 4000 this year which is is really too high of a number. Our threshold really should be back around

the 3000s. So if you look, you'll see that our ambulances make you one make you three, make you four they're hovering right there, making five and six are in town ambulances and they've more than

broken that threshold so that's when we start to get into trouble around capacity burnout about being able to keep people wanting to stay in the field so these are signs that we, we watch closely and

you'll see that make you nine on the far right is down considerably lower, because that is a truck that we did over the last two years out of some state funding that existed for impact our EMS system

that funding is down. Actually expired. So now we don't have that at all so we're going to start to see those, those lines on those other ambulances, you know, get into that, what we consider to be

slightly dangerous but this is something we're always working with the city staff and within the fire department to try and measure this and try and figure out ways to combat it. Go ahead, Adam. This

right here just shows our transports in general. And you'll notice that if you looked over to the 2026 pace, the dots are because those are factored numbers based on what we've done in the first three

quarters. But again, you're going to see that, you know, from 2019 8700 up to 10,400 so we do expect that to continue. You'll notice that 2020 was an abnormal year but we all understand why that

during COVID times when everybody cranked down and no one was in the city, our numbers backed way down but then we've come back and gone right past it. All set out him. This is a number that we really

signed to watch more closely this is how many times we have to call in an ambulance cover EMS calls in our city. And basically this this happens whenever we run out of the ambulances that so on a

normal day we would have five ambulances. Once in a while, if we have the six one if we have the right number of staffing in the right areas, we can put a six one on that will allow those numbers come

down but what you'll see is in July we, that's when we stop when we lost our, the funding out from our impact ambulance, and that's when you'll see that we instantly went back to 20, and then to

August and September with 26 apiece. So, it's not crazy over the top for us to call in ambulances from out of town. We definitely need to watch that number. You know, if that starts to 10 towards the

5060 we will definitely going to be pushed to try and come up with some sort of alternative. So, I just wanted to give you a quick vision of what that looks like that. And this is something that we

don't a lot of times like to talk about, but we will talk about, but our fire deaths, and this I showed last year at the end of the year but the reason I wanted to bring it up tonight introduce it

was. We've made it three quarters of the year we have not had a fire death this year. So that's definitely a plus to us, though that's anything that we try again, you want to knock on wood but you'll

notice that the 2020s there was there, there have been five deaths in this decade, and really last year was just not a good year for us, three of them were last year alone. So we're hoping that we're

going to continue to see that on the, on the downward slide, and not, not the increase but again just to make you guys aware, all set up. And this is another slide some interesting slide you'll see

how we do go all over the place. And this is what we call working fires so these are, you know, I don't want to say legit because a lot about we have fires all the time but these are your more major

fires. And if you notice 2026 now that we're through three quarters has really been on the downward slide for this year last year, that section of red that's on the 2025 that was we had eight multiple

on fires. We hadn't had eight multiple on fires back to 2013. So last year was definitely wasn't a good year and in regards to fires, but what we like is the fact that the trend doesn't seem to be

continuing from last year. I'm sure that number will stack up in the next few months but I don't expect it to surpass 24 or 25. So that's a good things all set up. And then our last thing we always

like to talk about is where we at with our staffing and our people that work for us. Essentially we're fighting for us. We're good at the moment, we're hovering right around our authorized strength

we're working on, bring you on a few more individuals but we're hovering rated our 229. So again just giving you a picture of where we're at with that. And I think that's our final slide that'll

probably move us through it quick tonight where we seem to be a little behind on other things so I'm willing to take any questions though. Thank you so much chief always great to have you here. And it

was nice to see that the fire number is down however I caution too much optimism, giving, given that we know it's starting to get cold, I can, I turned on the heat in one room today so far. I know

that people will be using creative ways to heat their homes as the cost of heating oil is expensive and so the more we can do about fire safety education in our communications and in our lives to our

people that we know, the better. Are there any questions for the chief at this juncture. Go ahead counselor Pelletier. If you're talking we can't hear you with something must be going on with your

headphones because we can't hear you. No, okay, no comment. Okay, thanks. Is there anybody else with any questions for the fire chief. All right, well I will make this plug that because my colleagues

here are both district counselors. Just make sure you give plenty of time for Chief Johnson to present at your district meeting because he was literally the most popular staff person at mine last

year. So, just keep that in mind as you as you plan your agendas for your district meetings. Um, well chief, I don't have any questions for you. So thanks so much for coming by these are great

numbers. Always appreciate the work, and we hear you. I want to make sure that you know that we hear you about the ambulance I'm over here like googling electric ambulances, not gonna lie. So, let's,

let's just continue. Keep us abreast of what the current state is and what the ideal state would be and how we might be able to get there. Thank you. Yes. All right, so I think that we have come to

the end of our agenda for this evening. Our next meeting will be November 10. I, at this juncture would take a motion to adjourn. I would have I just you and the mayor and mayor can't do it because

he's not a voting member. Why is your audio not working west thumbs up if you want to adjourn. Okay, moved by counselor pellet here, counselor McNivich, or I can second so seconded by myself,

counselor bullet. Give me a thumbs up if you're okay to adjourn. All right, counselor pellet here is a yes, counselor McNivich I've lost you. Well, I am a yes. So, we will take that as the majority,

let the record show that we are adjourned at 715. Oh, Sarah's texting me. My audio doesn't work. I know we're having like lots of technical issues tonight but counselor McNivich is a yes. So, let the

record show that we are adjourned at 715. Thank you everybody for coming here tonight and we will see you November 10.